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Foeofthelance
2006-06-12, 11:36 PM
I'm curious as to which is read more by the folks of this thread, and why.

Personally, I favor Marvel. I read a few DC books, (Batman/Superman and Teen Titans, plus the occasional off series.) but I much prefer Marvel. Why? The Marvel Universe comes off as more real to me.

Everything seems hunky dorry in the DC universe, because short of some major villain, Superman and the Justice League can just fly in and end all the little wars. The heroes almost never seem to face any personal problems. Aliens come and go with impunity, and earth based heroes are counted on to portect the entire galaxy. Also, their crossovers seem a little silly to me. Identity Crisis was good, as it covered a major exploitation of villains by heroes, but Infinite Crisis just seems like a rehashing of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Must every DC attempt to fix their continuity problems involve so much work? Finally, Superman. Great character, but he makes everything and everyone else absolutely useless.

Marvel, on the other hand, puts efforts into their works that I don't find in DC. Mutants are harassed, out of fear and prejudice. Some people want to kill them because they're different, while other's want to kill them for their body parts. The government has no idea what to do, and reacts in twenty diffferent ways to everything. The characters are well balanced, with even the main powers, such as the Pheonix and Magneto, having limitations and mortality. Some people are invulnerable, some people are psychic, others make themselves cold, while still more make themselves hot. There's no one collection of amazing powers the way there is in superman.

Finally, their crossover series actually mean something. They aren't merely ways to retcon continuity, and each impacts the entire universe. A quick comparison if I may? Warning: Possible Spoilers!












Identity Crisis- Supers deal withmorals of brainwashing their villains to protect identities.
VS.
Secret War-Supers deal with morals of engaging terrorists at their own level, including acts of mass destruction to send messages.

Infinite Crisis-Supers deal with attempts to manipulate them into fighting each other.
VS.
Civil War-Supers deal with a public turned against them, the result of a single villain blowing up Stamford. Some think they should all give in and register, other's see the inherent danger in all that. Much depends on individual power level, but even some heavy hitters such as Captain America will be going against it.

House of M I left out, as it dealt mostly with the fate of Wanda Maximoff, Magneto's daughter and former Avenger. It had the lasting impact of removing the vast majority of the mutant population as well as affecting a few people's lives, but was not truly a global event.

So that's the topics folks. Debate, discuss, and please, keep it civil eh?

Ing
2006-06-13, 12:28 AM
both have benefits both have down sides

i loved the toned down superman in the animated serise but msot of the time he's too freaking ridiculous for anything but ridicule and sarcasim

love batman, but he always is a joke next to the Justice league

Flash...is just a rape of physics...and that i cannot stand

house of M was absurd, and we all know its lasting effects will be retconed and fixed (just like xorneto)

frankly it pisses me off whenever any omic book resorts to "REALITY IS ALTeRED AND REWRITTEN!!!!!" instead of doing the honorable thing and doing a reboot, or finding some way to work within continuity. any time you need to frag with reality (be it mutant powers, or superboy punching it till it rolls over and begs btw that is incredibly nonsequitor) and lets not forget the blow to Marvel's credability that is Gean Gray's "undying"... once was cute, because they had a damn good explanation for it, twice iffy but acceptable.... what is it a dozen times now? i'm amazed anyone really even bothers to notice, her death is treated like she just went off to buy coffee at the local 7-11...not here RIGHT now but give her a few minutes.

so since they have less of the mindless stuff i have to side with Marvel,

sadly there are characters which are just good

buisness man Luthor was great (animated is my favorite portrayal)
Batman and most of his characters are good, until frank miller made him a kidnaping rat eating sociopath.
magneto is the best...though the whole Xorn-magneto-xorn thing tries my patients...but its a better excuse then just letting Magneto chanel hitler so whatever.

point to Marvel...though i still miss classic stand alone issues myself

Saithis Bladewing
2006-06-13, 12:56 AM
Screw 'em both, it's all about Marble Comics (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1149887103 ) ;D

KayJay
2006-06-13, 02:41 AM
While I read a lot of Marvel Comics, I find a lot more of my "essential reads" that I look forward to the most is DC.
I find that MArvel focuses on humour a lot more than DC which isn't bad precisely, but a lot of the semi-funny books don't have much else going for them that makes it warrant a read, so it'd need to be VERY funny.

DomaDoma
2006-06-13, 09:42 AM
Marvel, because Superman is a complete twink and Spiderman and most of the mutants are pure distilled awesome. (Going by the "Ultimate" series, anyway; old copies of Spiderman are more corny than the DC stuff being published at the time.)

Eldred
2006-06-13, 11:16 AM
I find that the Marvel heroes/heroines focus both on the good and the bad of their powers or lives and as such a much more interesting read. However, the heroes from the DC Comics make good movies (such as Batman Begins).

Beelzebub1111
2006-06-13, 11:27 AM
I like marvel alot better. The characters are more human. DC had alot of trouble getting out of the silver age and still regress at times while marvel changes more rapidly.

I, for one, enjoyed it when spiderman got the new robotic costume. It showed that things can change for the better.

Remember when superman got all "electric"? that lasted like two days. Not to mention his death can't even stay. His death was an amazing thing, it showed that he wasn't invinsable and was human like everyon else. But once they brought him back, that was lost.

Also the avengers are awesome. I think that Vision is awesome and that Iron Man (Tony Stark) does the whole millionare playboy a million times better than Bruce Waine.

I realy love Dr. Strange as well.

Not to mention that Marvel Comics has the Epic Villians: Appocolips, Galactus, Onslaught, Shuma Gorath, Thanos (the f-ing infinity gauntlet!), Dormammu, Maddam Web, Mephisto, the list goes on with the big guns

Jibar
2006-06-13, 12:02 PM
Marvel anyday. The only thing about DC I find I like is Batman, and even then they seem to like trying to screw him about.
Marvel gives us all the neato characters, like Doctor Doom, Spiderman, the X Men, The Fantastic Four. And as has been said, they are all shown to be human.
Besides, Marvel had all the cool cartoons and movies.

Lord Herman
2006-06-13, 12:27 PM
Same here. I like Batman, but the X-Men are just so much awesome-er (is that a word?). That, and Marvel has Picard and Gandalf on their side.

DeathQuaker
2006-06-13, 12:28 PM
Although I was seriously cheesed off by Infinite Crisis and moreso that they decided to renumber Wonder Woman again while Superman and Batman get their old numbering back (meaning I will not buy it anymore).... I in general slightly prefer DC to Marvel.

This has nothing to do with anything other than the fact when I decide to pick up a DC title I have never read before or only read infrequently, I find myself much more able to piece together what is going on without having to consult fellow comic geeks/the Internet/other comics. Marvel comics in general drive me crazy because if I don't manage to get into the beginning of a story arc, I have no freaking clue what's going on or even, usually, who half the characters are (even if I may have read the title a few months past). Therefore, I've never really gotten into collecting Marvel comics because the few I pick up fail to pull me into the story, despite the fact that the characters and art are generally cool.

Otherwise, I find that Marvel's overall universe design is better, but DC writes their characters better and with more depth ("depth" as opposed to ridiculously unbelievable amounts of emo-trauma). (People who cite DC's characters as "vanilla" only prove the point that they actually don't read any DC comics.)

I've also found that Marvel seems to handle their major characters very strongly overall, whereas DC's not-as-mainstream characters are actually much better written than the "big guys."

So over all they end up balancing out.

For the record, the only comic I regularly collect at the moment is "Birds of Prey." This is not because it's a DC comic (in fact, since Infinite Crisis, despite the fact it's a DC comic) but because it is damn freaking good. I highly recommend it to anyone who likes martial arts action, excellent team-based storylines, clear and deep character development, and stories where the heroes have to deal with dark realities and choices. Enjoying watching beautiful, intelligent women kick butt is a plus. :)

WampaX
2006-06-13, 12:47 PM
The older I get, the more and more I like DC material over Marvel. In my mind, Marvel has always been about razzle dazzle, they haven't strayed from it one step and I applaud them for keeping true to the their vision. DC, having been around longer, kept trying to change with the times, until the silver age when they finally started to get their act together. From about the middle of that age onward, DC has been a shop of substance and character.

Now, being young, we are almost always attracted to the Razzle Dazzle over Substance and Character. Heck, I was a marvel zombie for many years, bemoaning the drab artistic styles and wordy pages of DC comics over the fast paced and dynamic Marvel ones.

I probably began to see what DC had to offer not through the pages of their comics, but what they put on the screen (both large and small) when I saw Batman(1989) and I began watching Batman:TAS and got to see the Batman character as something other than campy 60's TV re-runs and a Superfriend. When I realized that I was enjoying episodes like "Appoinment in Crime Ally" as much as the showpieces like "The Laughing Fish," my Marvel zombie-tude melted away.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy a well crafted Marvel tale (The first 1602 series was spectacular) but more and more, I'm picking up DC books to line my shelf these days.

sun_tzu
2006-06-13, 03:19 PM
DC. Marvel feels too much like a chaotic jungle; DC is more...archetypical?
Also, while the whole mutant thing was interesting at first, it got really, really old as far as I'm concerned.

Wren
2006-06-13, 03:42 PM
I'll choose the third option thats more underground.

Adeptus
2006-06-13, 05:01 PM
I'm curious as to which is read more by the folks of this thread, and why.

Personally, I favor Marvel. I read a few DC books, (Batman/Superman and Teen Titans, plus the occasional off series.) but I much prefer Marvel. Why? The Marvel Universe comes off as more real to me.


What he said. Batman is ok, but he needs to be set in a world without metahuman supers like Superman.

Marvel universe is much more coherent and the characters seem more real. Mind you the best Marvel is mostly from the eighties. The fairly recent stuff has been awful, but Joss Whedon's new take is excellent. If you guys have been put off by the new and odd stuff, check out the ones by Joss Whedon. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised (and this from somebody who thinks Joss is overrated and Firefly is just bad. The man can do Marvel).

Artisan
2006-06-13, 05:32 PM
Personally, I think DC's too stuck in the past. I think that eventually (read- relatively soon, in my opinion) the Ultimate Marvel universe will supersede the 616 Marvel universe, because quite frankly the kids that are just hopping on board comic-dom are put off by the sheer immensity of backstory for every character within both the major comic companies; not to mention that pretty much every character has evolved so far beyond their orignal ideas to the point of being indistinguishable (I mean, BAtman's had 6 protege's in his career and Siperman is living in Stark Freaking Towers, and the whole Cosmic Spider thing...). Marvel is realising this and updating for the newer generation. I think DC is too archetypal, and is too happy to keep it that way.

DC are, in my opinion, sitting on their laurels too much.

My vote goes to (Ultimate) Marvel

Although, saying that, I do love Batman and some Superman

Steward
2006-06-13, 08:44 PM
DC, because of Superman. Superman is the best!

I know that's not a coherent argument. I promise I'll stop by and explain why Superman is the best comic book character I have ever read.

Caillach
2006-06-13, 10:02 PM
I'm going to go with DC.

I know there's the argument that Marvels more real, but to me Marvels always seemed so…Well...soap-opera really.
Don't get me wrong Marvels awesome, Magneto is by far my favorite comic book Character out of both worlds, but here are a few reasons I prefer DC. (for my purposes I'm going to stick with superman, otherwise this is going to go on for pages)

case1superman: Just a beautiful, well thought out peice: A super being arriveing from space, escaping his planet that was doomed by his own peoples Obsession with perfection and control. He doesn't, however, become a complete orphan. He embraces his new world as it embraces him (showing us that it doesn't matter what you are or where your from, what matters is that you love and accept where you are, and who you are now.*awww* A lovely thought.)
The fact that he can be destroyed/weakened only by his original home (Kryptonite, from Krypton) seems, in some way, very poetic to me. He is balanced by the very thing that made him great on earth: his own planet.
case2 Lex Luther: A great villain. He shows smarts, he shows that superpowers aren't the end all be all.
The embodiment of greed, jealousy, unjust anger, Luther reminds us of our human flaws, because he really is just that: Pure Human. Totally Mortal.
Maybe that's why he's such a popular villain. He's the little bit in all of us that just loathes those that are "higher" than us, the rebel that's gonna bring that little smartass down. And the fact that he, a complete mortal, is superman’s biggest threat means a lot more to me than if he were just some pumped up villain on steroids. Again, just beautiful well crafted ideas.
Case3 Lois Lane: Probably one the strongest Female character's out there. She doesn't need superpowers to kick some ass. She's a bloody super-mortal! The one Clark Kent see's as his equal, the only person who can intimidate The Superman! She doesn't really get caught up in that "wallow in self pity crap" as some female characters with superpowers do (I have to point out that even though I love X-men, that's my real beef with them. Some of those super heroines…jeeze. *shakes head* fricken get over it already! You've got bloody superpowers, I don't want your angst!)
However at the same time she's totally still a woman: She loves, she wins and fails. She feels, there is so much more to her than just "the damsel in distress". She's a Shaman that hasn't quite figured everything out for herself. If that's not real I don't know what is.

As a side note it should be recognized that Superman Should never have been brought back to life after he died. this was never part of the original plan (I hope), and was foolishly caused by idiot rabid fans who couldn't recognize that good things must come to a conclusion for them to remain good things.
As for the Justice league…psh. Baaaad Idea. Superman was meant to stand alone.

pheww... I don't think I forgot anything.

Tarlonniel
2006-06-13, 10:03 PM
DC, because of Superman. Superman is the best!

Coherent enough for me ;D
I think the only Marvel comics I've ever read are some very early Spiderman compilations. Cohesiveness, realism, more "human" characters, yeah maybe, but that's not what I read comic books for. I much prefer DC's gloriously epic archetypes.

Ing
2006-06-13, 10:30 PM
i like my superman semi-mortal honestly...takes some of the fun out if he can "defeat anything as long as he dons't hold back" well then, there's no real drama is there? superman just stops holding back enough to kick whatever ass needs to be kicked. i like him alot but i don't like the absurd he can destroy the universe power level he seems to be constantly inflated to. so i like some of the post crisis ones before he was inflated agian, and the animated series alot. however as good as he is lets not forget the down sides and crazy **** assosicated with him that makes some people prefer marvel

1) justice league...bunch of cry babies and morons really
2) super friends...same **** as justice league but now everyone's on stupid pills
3) masonry vision
4) time travel by flying around the earth really fast
5) altering reality by punching it
6) insane comics from the 50s and 60s, where jimmy, lana, lois always get powers/marry apes/ try to kill superman
7) Kyrpto the superdog...the super monkey, the super cat, the super platapus
8) supergirl dating a horse (i wish i mae that up)


((actually i think they claim the rebirth of superman was planed from the start...unlike gene Gray)).

Old_el_Paso
2006-06-14, 01:18 AM
My vote goes to (Ultimate) MarvelNO! *The Ultimates are satanic! *They are pure evil! *Go to your room, young man!


(Marvel's great, but they have too many crappy crossovers and crazy stories that you can get really mixed up with. *Two people were writing new material for Captain America and he ended up being at two places at the same time.)

(Superman needed to die and stay dead instead of Superboy, because he's a damn powergamer.)

sun_tzu
2006-06-14, 03:01 AM
I'm going to go with DC.

I know there's the argument that Marvels more real, but to me Marvels always seemed so…Well...soap-opera really.
Don't get me wrong Marvels awesome, Magneto is by far my favorite comic book Character out of both worlds, but here are a few reasons I prefer DC. (for my purposes I'm going to stick with superman, otherwise this is going to go on for pages)

case1superman: Just a beautiful, well thought out peice: A super being arriveing from space, escaping his planet that was doomed by his own peoples Obsession with perfection and control. He doesn't, however, become a complete orphan. He embraces his new world as it embraces him (showing us that it doesn't matter what you are or where your from, what matters is that you love and accept where you are, and who you are now.*awww* A lovely thought.)
The fact that he can be destroyed/weakened only by his original home (Kryptonite, from Krypton) seems, in some way, very poetic to me. He is balanced by the very thing that made him great on earth: his own planet.
case2 Lex Luther: A great villain. He shows smarts, he shows that superpowers aren't the end all be all.
The embodiment of greed, jealousy, unjust anger, Luther reminds us of our human flaws, because he really is just that: Pure Human. Totally Mortal.
Maybe that's why he's such a popular villain. He's the little bit in all of us that just loathes those that are "higher" than us, the rebel that's gonna bring that little smartass down. And the fact that he, a complete mortal, is superman’s biggest threat means a lot more to me than if he were just some pumped up villain on steroids. Again, just beautiful well crafted ideas.
Case3 Lois Lane: Probably one the strongest Female character's out there. She doesn't need superpowers to kick some ass. She's a bloody super-mortal! The one Clark Kent see's as his equal, the only person who can intimidate The Superman! She doesn't really get caught up in that "wallow in self pity crap" as some female characters with superpowers do (I have to point out that even though I love X-men, that's my real beef with them. Some of those super heroines…jeeze. *shakes head* fricken get over it already! You've got bloody superpowers, I don't want your angst!)
However at the same time she's totally still a woman: She loves, she wins and fails. She feels, there is so much more to her than just "the damsel in distress". She's a Shaman that hasn't quite figured everything out for herself. If that's not real I don't know what is.

As a side note it should be recognized that Superman Should never have been brought back to life after he died. this was never part of the original plan (I hope), and was foolishly caused by idiot rabid fans who couldn't recognize that good things must come to a conclusion for them to remain good things.
As for the Justice league…psh. Baaaad Idea. Superman was meant to stand alone.

pheww... I don't think I forgot anything.





I agree with most of what you said, except for too:
1)Bringing Superman back was DEFINITELY part of the original idea. And, I think most people had it figured out when he died.
2)Personally, I think the JLA is freaking awesome. Possibly my favorite series - and it MAKES SENSE that the heroes would team up to protect the world.

KayJay
2006-06-14, 04:27 AM
Yeah I can't really see Superman dying and not having him brought back. That'd be like Batman dying- I just somehow don't see it happening as it's such a big comic-seller.
Plus at the time, "returning from the dead" storylines weren't really overdone (in the DC universe at least).

Ing
2006-06-14, 09:04 AM
undieing is overdone in any comic

absolutly no one in comics ever stays dead save bucky *Uncle ben and Jason Todd

oh i forgot the greatest nail in superman's grave



cross over with the Quicks Bunny


and you complain Marvel had confusing cross overs!?

Caillach
2006-06-14, 06:45 PM
I agree with most of what you said, except for too:
1)Bringing Superman back was DEFINITELY part of the original idea. And, I think most people had it figured out when he died.
2)Personally, I think the JLA is freaking awesome. Possibly my favorite series - and it MAKES SENSE that the heroes would team up to protect the world.

It may have been, but I think he should have stayed dead. Comeing back to life just completely ruins it for me (this goes for any comic book)
It is a lazy lazy way to "shock" people, but Marvel is just as guilty when it come to this "bring back to life" thing.

As for the JLA well...
It's probably just my opinion but I really think that each hero should be in seprate worlds. Where's the wonder of Batman when he's placed next to Superman? And the whole idea of Superhero's makeing their own little "institution" thingy, well it sort of makes them less cool. They have to follow orders,They never bother with small crimes (cept Batman), they sorta become... ya know.."the man."
I've never really liked the whole Crossover idea mainly because the stories, and the main ideas each hero's original comics are lost in the termoil of too many hero's syndrome. If done well the Character dynamics are entertaining, and can hold some meaning, but the real idea of what each story was meant to represent isn't as strong. You loose the feeling of the original comics.

as for the whole "alternate reality thing" DC aint the only ones who do it.
"What If Thor and the Avengers Fought the Gods?"
Anybody remeber that one? What a load of tripe that was.

Keldar
2006-06-14, 07:22 PM
As a side note it should be recognized that Superman should never have been brought back to life after he died. this was never part of the original plan (I hope), and was foolishly caused by idiot rabid fans who couldn't recognize that good things must come to a conclusion for them to remain good things.

I actually own the novelization of the death and return of Superman, by Roger Stern. The book has about 3 introductions to it, but the one written by Mike Carlin, who was the editor of the Superman comics from 1986 through 1995, is the important one here.

The introduction in question is loaded with information as to how the decision to kill him was made and how the story was fleshed out, but the important paragraph is this one:


Oh, of course he would survive - we weren't stupid! None of us wanted to write ourselves out of a job. Or worse, be labelled the people who really did end the Neverending Battle. We were storytellers. We had a story to tell. And it had an ending - right from the beginning!

So, yes. It most certainly was part of the original plan, and the fans had nothing to do with it.

Ing
2006-06-14, 10:02 PM
yes but the whatif things end right there...

DC introduced Hypertime which means that plot and histories are impossible to follow and there is no causality because things that really didn't happen can have an effect on the future or stuff like that.

an interesting idea for a sci-fi novel or series but just mucks up superheroism

i agree the DC packed full of heros things sucks, i think it started out intended to be self contained titles and later was merged into one universe. Batman should definitly be aloen in his own verse....

good question for batman though, is he 'the man" or does he fight for "justice" is he law or is he 'justice" if there was someone falsly imprisioned that he did not personally know, but he knew they were falsly imprisoned would he bother to help them as much as he bothers to fight crime??

Kontonshin
2006-06-14, 11:55 PM
DC, but mainly because of the Vertigo line.

TruenuffTrey
2006-06-15, 12:14 AM
I go with Marvel, the characters seem more like real people facing real
situations (sometimes). However, there are some very cool characters in DC (Green Latern, Dr. Fate, and Batman), although it seems as though Batman is going through a "god-like" phase right now. Or at least on the boards he is, with the excuse for his victory against this or that being "he could outwit so and so with enough planning time."

Bottom Line: Marvel for the win.

turkishproverb
2006-06-15, 05:37 AM
DC because marvel hasn't been worth reading in its normal books for a couple years now.

aegron
2006-06-15, 06:28 AM
Vertigo and ultimate marvel get my pick.


But I've never read any superman comics or batman comics, so I'm probably not the best judge ;).

Tokeloshe
2006-06-15, 07:06 AM
Okay, my two favourite characters are DC

Batman is basically "What if Lex Luthor Was A Good Guy"

And Green Arrow, who is basically "What if Batman Got Over Himself And Went Broke."

That said, Marvel takes it. Why? Well okay some of the supers in Marvel are stronger (think about a classic Rogue versus a classic Superman battle) then their DC counterparts so it isn't about powers. It is about the fact that Marvel seems better able to use the mundane.

Where DC uses a giant allien who wants to destroy the universe to generate drama, Marvel uses the hero's boss giving him spoon to generate drama. That's the basic difference between the two.

A_Dark_Danish
2006-06-15, 07:09 AM
I know alot more Marvel characters and am way more comfortable with them, so I say Marvel.

baerun
2006-06-15, 09:15 AM
Personally, I have always been a big superman fan so I would go with DC. Also made by DC was the Preacher comic series which imho was one of the greatest series to be printed any time recently.

I think the main problem people have with Superman is that they don't understand. Yes he is all powerful and sometimes they overdo his powers, I think everyone can agree with that, but for the most part the comics are usually more about the depth of the characters because he is so powerful. His death, at the time, was a huge deal. I can remember news stations covering it like he was a real person. I can't say the same has happened for any other comic character.

Uber_Nerd
2006-06-15, 12:07 PM
I have not read either company (sad) :'( but I choose marvel because I just hate superman. He's like Pun-Pun.

storybookknight
2006-06-15, 12:53 PM
Formerly Marvel. Lately, Green Arrow has been causing me to lean towards DC a bit further.

Old_el_Paso
2006-06-16, 10:51 AM
I also like Dark Horse because of all the Star Wars.

De_Carabas
2006-09-09, 11:52 AM
Personally I side with DC, mainly due to the Vertigo line.

I will aknowledge the fact that Marvel tends to apply alot of effort of the humanity of its heros, often marking them as pariah, something teens (the original prime audiance for comics at the time of founding) can easily identify with, and they often manage to take this through to an older audiance.

DC however, in my view carries more weigth over all. as has been sighted before DC make regular use of a level of humanism (Batman, Lex luther etc.) you don't find, or at least I haven't in Marvel. And then we hit Vertigo, my personal point of favour, we see series like Transmetropolitan, so full of passion and life and hate, hate for stupidity, and laziness and corruption. or Swamp Thing that takes the pariah tendencies of Marvel to another level, which had much more meaning for me.

I persoanlly agree most of these series should have stood solo, and that too many crossovers and blendings, and mergers dilute to original form and intent. And when a writer genuallny loves what they are writing, and is allowed to write it their way, you get a better stories. I find DC tends to allow its writers to write what they want alot more.

PS. 1602 is indeed made of all things great, and was writen by Neil Gaiman, who really made his name big with The Sandman, DC Vertigos orginal Flagship series.

Logic
2006-09-10, 12:50 AM
Personally, I have always been a big superman fan so I would go with DC. Also made by DC was the Preacher comic series which imho was one of the greatest series to be printed any time recently.

I think the main problem people have with Superman is that they don't understand. *Yes he is all powerful and sometimes they overdo his powers, I think everyone can agree with that, but for the most part the comics are usually more about the depth of the characters because he is so powerful. *His death, at the time, was a huge deal. *I can remember news stations covering it like he was a real person. *I can't say the same has happened for any other comic character.
Some news stations covered Spiderman's "Coming out" as if he were a real person.

Deadmeat.GW
2006-09-10, 06:15 AM
In general it is Marvel for me but there are some brilliant characters in DC, Batman on his own and in some of the JLA is brilliant.

Overall marvel just seems to have slightly better consistancy with their stuff and puts more effort in trying to fix their mistakes.

Of course their fixing efforts do have bad side effects from time to time like when you have trouble following the different corrections :|.

Jack_Banzai
2006-09-11, 03:59 PM
I've read both Marvel and DC for the last twenty-five years, and between the two, I generally prefer Marvel. This is not to say that I don't enjoy DC Comics. I just find a lot more of the Marvel characters endearing and the storylines are usually more interesting to me. Of course, Marvel has had some terrible terrible storylines (Clone Saga, anyone?) but you can't have everything.

twiztidbuddy
2006-09-12, 02:34 AM
Man talk about a tough decision!! If I had to stop getting all my comics' (both DC and Marvel) sans one it would be one of 2 either Ultimates or Captain Americia but Ultimates would be my first choice. The fact that Marvel started a semi new universe for some of us new readers is the best thing to happen in the comic industry. I always loved the X-men growing up but in the small town I grew up in we didnt have a comic store so i never realized that there were multiple X-men titles and story lines. Now with the whole Ultimate universe I can learn the whole history of each hero and villian with a new modern twist. As for Cap Brubaker is freakin awesome!!! DC just restarted the Flash line and you still have to know the history of all the different Flash's to understand what in the world is going on!!! Same thing with the new Justice League of America, Uncle Sam and the Freedon Fighters and Shazzam!! I mean come on how does DC expect a new reader to understand whats going on??

baerun
2006-09-12, 10:34 AM
Some news stations covered Spiderman's "Coming out" as if he were a real person.

I honestly did not know that so thank you for correcting me. I was overseas when that happened so I was unable to catch that on the news.

Caillach
2006-09-16, 06:31 PM
I have not read either company (sad) :'( but I choose marvel because I just hate superman. He's like Pun-Pun.

If you've never read either company, how do you know you hate Superman?
Comic Superman has differences from TV/movie Superman.

Logic
2006-09-17, 06:53 PM
I've read both Marvel and DC for the last twenty-five years, and between the two, I generally prefer Marvel. *This is not to say that I don't enjoy DC Comics. *I just find a lot more of the Marvel characters endearing and the storylines are usually more interesting to me. *Of course, Marvel has had some terrible terrible storylines (Clone Saga, anyone?) but you can't have everything.
I loved the clone saga. Up until when Marvel had no idea of when to kill it. They rode that storyline forever, because it was selling books as fast as the Symbiote sold books.
Ben Reilly was a really good character, and it showed what Peter Parker/Spiderman would do if he had nothing left to lose and focused his life on being his super alter ego.

comicshorse
2006-09-24, 10:09 AM
No offence but i thought the Clone Saga was everything about Marvel that was wrong. A silly , overlong, hyped to ridiculous lengths cross-over that say's were going to change Spiderman forever and then after months of comics they change him right back and that's it.
That and the fact there are just too damn many really annoying mutants ( still) and I'll have to go with D.C. Though that said I do think the Ultimates line has got ride of a lot of the things that drive me nuts about Marvel comics

Jack_Banzai
2006-09-25, 05:37 PM
Agreed. I am in love with the Ultimate line, although I am starting to worry that they're expanding too rapidly. I liked it when there were hardly any superhumans in the beginning of Ultimate Spider-Man.

Beleriphon
2006-09-26, 11:53 PM
Agreed. I am in love with the Ultimate line, although I am starting to worry that they're expanding too rapidly. I liked it when there were hardly any superhumans in the beginning of Ultimate Spider-Man.

Right now I think we have Spiderman, his villains, the X-Men and their villains, the Ultimates, the Fantastic Four and thats it as far as I know. As it stands there are quite a few superhumans in each serie, but if you add them all up you might get around 60 or 70 total. That is of course discounting the current unknowns that are implied to exist.

Logic
2006-09-30, 02:40 AM
I saw on deviant art the other day a "DC ultimate" line of costumes. I will post a link to it as soon as i find it.
http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/9/c/JLA_Ultimate_Batman_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/f/5/JLA_Ultimate_Superman_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/1/1/Ultimate_JLA_GL_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/c/c/JLA_Ultimate_Wonder_Woman_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/c/d/Ultimate_JLA_Flash_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/7/0/JLA_Ultimate_Manhunter_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg
http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/116/2/3/JLA_Ultimate_Aquaman_colour_by_mistermoster.jpg

Beleriphon
2006-09-30, 07:48 AM
I saw on deviant art the other day a "DC ultimate" line of costumes. I will post a link to it as soon as i find it.



A whole bunch of these came out in Wizard magazine as a sort of retool based on Marvel's Ultimate line.

Superman: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/superman.jpg

Batman: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/batman.jpg

Wonder Woman: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/wonderwoman.jpg

Flash: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/flash.jpg

Green Lantern: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/greenlantern.jpg

JLA: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/jla.jpg

Teen Titans: http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/teentitans.jpg

Redghost
2006-10-04, 12:34 AM
I am a DC flavored fanboy. Marvel has nothing on JLA, Titans any of it. The only DC character I would vote off the island is Lobo. The writing for DC is more emotionaly evoled and they treat the charcaters like people. Don't get me wrong before the movies made me want to impale my self I liked the X-men (chris clairmont is my favorite of the X-writers) The avengers seem silly. how can that teem manage to have a god thor who out powers everything but the Hulk and Ironman. the rest of the team is like cohorts at best. Maybe my problem with captain america is I keep thinking of Eric from the D&D cartoon. "I will save you I have a shield and ring armor oh boy! Oh just don't tell anyone that I got my powers from drugs they canceled Underdog and Hourman because of that and besides I represent america and well we don't have a drug problum here." I never understood spiderman. What is he doing working as a photographer when the dude could invent web fluid. think of the military aplications of such a strong adheisive. also it kind of insultsphotographers because he was in highschool or a freshmen in college when he got bit. Ironman is cool but the world poops on him and gives cap all the attention. Hello cap took drugs to get his powers. Tony Stark Invented his suit as a P.O.W. Micronizing technology, developing power sources, inventing metal that could stop a bullet and ripple like muscle so he could pick up the babes. and it is not like he is even a scientist he is a freaking docter and the world idolizes captain america. I do like the spiderman movies they were pretty good. DC has spent a lot of time rewriting their characters and have actually but a dash more thought and creativity in them, Very few can shoot lightning because well they were born with some funny genes. I guess I was a marvel guy as a kid and then sort of grew into DC. I know Marvel has alot of great characters hopefully in the future DC will just buy them like they have done with many other comic companies. I know there are a lot of the marvel militia out here but these are just my opinions and maybe, hopefully marvels writting has gotten better over the last couple years. I know I am going to hear alot of boos over my opinion but I do think this is kinda funny to discuss. Some have posted about how DC pulls the galactic threat card all the time but both companies do the same thing. Galactus and the Nova gaurd is not too diffrent from the martian manhunters/Green lantern corps and the new gods. Each hero has his own set of villans/ delemas that they deal with and their own set of fans. Those who feel like the majority can shove it will probably like X-men or punisher, if you like something a little more cerebral but still dark with a lot of infighting then batman is more of a way to go. Me I like team books that is just the way I am.

Ambrogino
2006-10-04, 11:09 AM
I'm stunned and confused by the people claiming Marvel to be more realistic and consistent. This is the same Marvel Universe in which 99% of the worlds superheroes live in the same city, right? The one where a beutiful woman is hated and feared for being a mutant whilst a 9 foot tall man made out of rock and his friend who can set himself on fire are cheered as loved celebritys?

Yeah, real consistant.

I've loved a lot of Marvel in my time but I truly feel that unlike DC (which has a good set of teams, and a brilliant history with the JSA series showing how well new and old heroes can be combined) the seperate lines should be in seperate self-contained universes. Alias and Squadron Supreme rocked, but wouldn't have existed without Vertigo (and the Justic League in SS's case) coming first.

And DC has superman. There's a lot of bad stories been written about him over time, but when he's done well there's a reason the entire genre is named after him.

Casualgamer
2006-10-04, 09:38 PM
DC has the Dark Knight Returns...
Marvel has X-men in general...

Pretty even I say.

Cathrindir
2006-10-06, 12:23 PM
Tough question, though overall, I'm on Marvel's side. It just feels more real; not because the Thing and Johnny Storm are loved as celebrities, (I must agree with your point, Amrogino) but because Marvel's heroes seem to have more personal problems. I am not stating that DC heroes do not act in this manner: just that from the start, Marvel seemed to be trying to make obstacles for their heroes to stumble over, while DC was making hurdles for their heroes to jump over. I read DC comics just as regularly as I read Marvel, but I have to prefer Marvel's flavor more than DC's.

Jack_Banzai
2006-10-06, 12:32 PM
I'm stunned and confused by the people claiming Marvel to be more realistic and consistent. This is the same Marvel Universe in which 99% of the worlds superheroes live in the same city, right? The one where a beutiful woman is hated and feared for being a mutant whilst a 9 foot tall man made out of rock and his friend who can set himself on fire are cheered as loved celebritys?

Yeah, real consistant.

I've loved a lot of Marvel in my time but I truly feel that unlike DC (which has a good set of teams, and a brilliant history with the JSA series showing how well new and old heroes can be combined) the seperate lines should be in seperate self-contained universes. Alias and Squadron Supreme rocked, but wouldn't have existed without Vertigo (and the Justic League in SS's case) coming first.

And DC has superman. There's a lot of bad stories been written about him over time, but when he's done well there's a reason the entire genre is named after him.

This is the same "consistent" DC that has retconned virtually every character in their stable, correct? Not just the major ones, either; to this day the writers and editors don't really seem to know whether or not The Question uses martial arts, for instance.

Ambrogino
2006-10-07, 03:31 AM
This is the same "consistent" DC that has retconned virtually every character in their stable, correct? *Not just the major ones, either; to this day the writers and editors don't really seem to know whether or not The Question uses martial arts, for instance.


I never said DC was consistent, I said I was stunned that people thought Marvel was. *Yup, DC is not entirely consistent, it has gaps like "Batman's an urban myth" which works really well in the Gotham books, but makes no sense when he's saved the world from Alien invasions with the rest of the league. *I do think the world on the whole hangs together better though, not least because of all the extra cities.

And what comic's character hasn't been retconned by one company or another at some point?

I'll add I haven't read anything set after Infinite Crisis yet, so I don't know which world's what any more.

Jack_Banzai
2006-10-07, 09:17 AM
I never said DC was consistent, I said I was stunned that people thought Marvel was. Yup, DC is not entirely consistent, it has gaps like "Batman's an urban myth" which works really well in the Gotham books, but makes no sense when he's saved the world from Alien invasions with the rest of the league. I do think the world on the whole hangs together better though, not least because of all the extra cities.

And what comic's character hasn't been retconned by one company or another at some point?

I'll add I haven't read anything set after Infinite Crisis yet, so I don't know which world's what any more.

The principle difference is that Marvel retcons are more the "addition" type of retcon, such as in X-Men: The Hidden Years and Untold Tales of Spider-Man, and DC seems to have the market cornered on "alteration" retcons (Kal-El is, no isn't! no is, no isn't! the last survivor of Krypton) and "deletion" retcons (like Zero Hour). To say nothing of bringing back Jason Todd, a stunt that Denny O'Neil once said would be pretty sleazy....

Okay, let's forget the individual characters for a moment and check out the big, huge universe-spanning retcons that are so prevalent in DC. Zero Hour. Hypertime. Genesis Wave. Identity Crisis. All of these limited series/storylines managed to change the DC Universe in a big way and not always for the better. There's no damned consistency. Sure, okay, Marvel occasionally screws with retconning characters (Spider-Man's writers are particularly guilty of this) but it's pretty rare that they retcon any of the fundamentals. Annoying, DC, annoying! And then trying to explain Jason Todd being alive and other inconsistencies with something as lamebrained as Superboy "hammering on the walls of reality"? Please! It's just a band-aid for the work of subpar editors not listening to each other during morning meetings.

Ambrogino
2006-10-07, 12:26 PM
The principle difference is that Marvel retcons are more the "addition" type of retcon, such as in X-Men: The Hidden Years and Untold Tales of Spider-Man, and DC seems to have the market cornered on "alteration" retcons (Kal-El is, no isn't! *no is, no isn't! *the last survivor of Krypton) and "deletion" retcons (like Zero Hour). *To say nothing of bringing back Jason Todd, a stunt that Denny O'Neil once said would be pretty sleazy....

I think you're picking and choosing to support your point here - what about "It was Xorn/Magneto/Xorn's Brother who happened to look like Magneto" for "alteration" and Bucky was just as much of a sacred cow as Jason Todd. The whole background to Identity Crisis is an addition not an alteration, and to me fills in some of the biggest dumb plot holes in the golden age.


Okay, let's forget the individual characters for a moment and check out the big, huge universe-spanning retcons that are so prevalent in DC. *Zero Hour. *Hypertime. *Genesis Wave. *Identity Crisis. *All of these limited series/storylines managed to change the DC Universe in a big way and not always for the better. *There's *no *damned *consistency. *Sure, okay, Marvel occasionally screws with retconning characters (Spider-Man's writers are particularly guilty of this) but it's pretty rare that they retcon any of the fundamentals. *Annoying, DC, annoying! *And then trying to explain Jason Todd being alive and other inconsistencies with something as lamebrained as Superboy "hammering on the walls of reality"? *Please! *It's just a band-aid for the work of subpar editors not listening to each other during morning meetings.

And House of M's resolution reduced to ~ 100 mutants, and there are more than that number in the books already, especially when Marvel keeps forgetting which Avengers/Defenders are actually mutants. Fifty years of comics have always happened in the last ten years. And as for editors not listening to eac other I present The Clone Saga.

Both companies do some deeply, deeply dopey things. Retcon's are inevitable, as are bad res ideas and poor story lines. I stil think he mutant hero/celebrity hero clash in the Marvel universe just doesn't sit right, and that's been consistent since day one and even crosses over into their alternate line.

Jack_Banzai
2006-10-07, 03:19 PM
I think you're picking and choosing to support your point here - what about "It was Xorn/Magneto/Xorn's Brother who happened to look like Magneto" for "alteration" and Bucky was just as much of a sacred cow as Jason Todd. The whole background to Identity Crisis is an addition not an alteration, and to me fills in some of the biggest dumb plot holes in the golden age.


And House of M's resolution reduced to ~ 100 mutants, and there are more than that number in the books already, especially when Marvel keeps forgetting which Avengers/Defenders are actually mutants. Fifty years of comics have always happened in the last ten years. And as for editors not listening to eac other I present The Clone Saga.

Both companies do some deeply, deeply dopey things. Retcon's are inevitable, as are bad res ideas and poor story lines. I stil think he mutant hero/celebrity hero clash in the Marvel universe just doesn't sit right, and that's been consistent since day one and even crosses over into their alternate line.

And I feel that the mindless acceptance of metahumans and other superheroes without (as much) prejudice, as evidenced in the DC Universe, is deeply unrealistic.

Also it's ~198 mutants, not ~100.

Beleriphon
2006-10-08, 09:24 PM
And I feel that the mindless acceptance of metahumans and other superheroes without (as much) prejudice, as evidenced in the DC Universe, is deeply unrealistic.

Also it's ~198 mutants, not ~100.

I don't think so, given that the premier "metahuman" is Superman. If that guy doesn't exude confidence in costumed heros then nobody does.

Jack_Banzai
2006-10-09, 03:12 AM
I don't think so, given that the premier "metahuman" is Superman. If that guy doesn't exude confidence in costumed heros then nobody does.

I've always thought that Superman would be a hard act to buy in today's cynical world. People would be speculating about the seamier side of his life, like what he does for sex, whether he's gay, what his agenda is, etc. Call me nuts, but I would probably think at least twice about a being who is effectively an earthbound god, dressing in bright colors, running around saving people out of (apparently) the goodness of his heart. I don't know. The cityborn Marvel heroes and the skepticism of the public just rings truer to me. The Fantastic Four, they're practically a name brand, people trust them. The old Avengers, same thing. Everyone else is suspect.

Beleriphon
2006-10-09, 04:42 AM
I've always thought that Superman would be a hard act to buy in today's cynical world. People would be speculating about the seamier side of his life, like what he does for sex, whether he's gay, what his agenda is, etc. Call me nuts, but I would probably think at least twice about a being who is effectively an earthbound god, dressing in bright colors, running around saving people out of (apparently) the goodness of his heart. I don't know. The cityborn Marvel heroes and the skepticism of the public just rings truer to me. The Fantastic Four, they're practically a name brand, people trust them. The old Avengers, same thing. Everyone else is suspect.

Superman has always been the one hero that struck me as actually working.

At some level the JLA and the JSA also name brand heroes. It doesn't matter who is on the JLA, only that it exists. Then by extension current and former members are trusted by default. Since a good portion of the DCU heroes have been JLA members at one point or another leads to the situation where everybody is a hero.