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Holy_Knight
2006-06-24, 04:20 AM
Here's something I've wondered for a while:

Does the idea for Spiderman's Spider Sense have any actual basis in real spiders, like web-spinning does? Or is it just something made up to give him a neat power?

Ebon_Drake
2006-06-24, 10:06 AM
Yes and no. Spiders can react faster than humans, but it isn't because they have highly superior "spider sense", it's because their bodies are smaller and therefore their nerve impulses have less distance to travel. If a spider was scaled up to human size its reaction times would be about the same.

Ing
2006-06-24, 01:27 PM
also comes from the fact that spiders have all around vision (usually) with eyes located facing the bow and stern. and how spiders can sense vibrations when in their webs....

Closet_Skeleton
2006-06-24, 02:47 PM
Yes and no. Spiders can react faster than humans, but it isn't because they have highly superior "spider sense", it's because their bodies are smaller and therefore their nerve impulses have less distance to travel. If a spider was scaled up to human size its reaction times would be about the same.

Uhm... nerve impulses travel at almost the speed of light (slowed down due to synapses), the 5+ feet differance between a human and a spider's body is completly negligable. Unless I'm wrong of course. In the movie they have a spider that's "reactions border on pre-cognition" but I think the reality is closer to what Ing said.

Ing
2006-06-24, 03:12 PM
recently it's been explained

peter feels like he's in the center of a sort of astral web...disturbences in it feel like vibrations radiating in towards him. large vibrations cause him to reflexivly react and it also releases adredolin.... if anything the only explanation is given in his new quasimystical origin where its part of the Totem powers

Hoseki
2006-06-24, 04:14 PM
"I sense a disturbence in the Force erm, astral web."

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-06-24, 04:27 PM
recently it's been explained

peter feels like he's in the center of a sort of astral web...disturbences in it feel like vibrations radiating in towards him. large vibrations cause him to reflexivly react and it also releases adredolin.... if anything the only explanation is given in his new quasimystical origin where its part of the Totem powers

Is this the storyline called "Spiderman: The Other"? Because I really want to read that, even though I really don't know a whole lot about the "main" Marvel Universe, but the bookstores always shrinkwrap it so I'm wondering if it's worth buying. Thoughts?

Steward
2006-06-24, 06:01 PM
Spider sense has no basis in real spiders. It falls more into the realm of voodoo or witchcraft than spider stuff.

Kish
2006-06-24, 09:21 PM
Is this the storyline called "Spiderman: The Other"? Because I really want to read that, even though I really don't know a whole lot about the "main" Marvel Universe, but the bookstores always shrinkwrap it so I'm wondering if it's worth buying. Thoughts?
I haven't read it, but my thought is that if you really want to read it, then it's worth buying--even if it turns out it sucks.

Beleriphon
2006-06-24, 11:33 PM
r if anything the only explanation is given in his new quasimystical origin where its part of the Totem powers

Gwah? Explain please. I know about the crazy Iron Man style spidersuit that he got from Tony Stark, but Totem whats-its?

Ing
2006-06-25, 12:14 AM
Spider-mans powers have been re-explained

its equal parts mutation and mysticism. *

the radioactive bite made him a 'child of the atom' and passed on some of the spider DNA.

that event was also noted by the primal forces who decided that because of it Spiderman would be a good avatar for a totemistic power of "the Spider". *

the strength and agility are equal parts from both origins, the spidersense and boosted understanding of chemicles comes from the mystical part as does his semi-healing factor. *

the totem thing may make some sense, it explains some problems with the science and it also kinda fits his character. *in animistic cultures the Spider is almost universally a trickster, (the same archtype spiderman is!) so in a way he is an avatar of the SPider and anansi (not literally though he does draw his spidersense through the totem power of Spider). *

its actually precedes the other in the Eziekel story lines where he meet another person who has spiderpowers, ((though he got them in other under handed means)) predates Other by at least a year or two. *

the other solidified this even more, having Peter reborn though the power of the totem, gaining new mutations "stingers" a power booste and also creating a karmatic shadow of him to balance out his return to life or some ****. also Morlun comes back which makes no sense since he was clearl vaporized...i don't know if they even bothered to explain how he came back.

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 02:04 AM
the other solidified this even more, having Peter reborn though the power of the totem, gaining new mutations "stingers" a power booste and also creating a karmatic shadow of him to balance out his return to life or some ****. also Morlun comes back which makes no sense since he was clearl vaporized...i don't know if they even bothered to explain how he came back.

So instead of good old radioactive stuff that clearly makes no scientific sense, we get one part radition one part wacky magical BS? At least when DC does a retcon, they go all out and do a retcon to the whole universe, and at least come up with a half-way reasonable (within in comic book reasoning) explanation. Crisis on Infinite Earths may be goofy, and more than a little annoying, but at least it worked within the context of that story.

Stupid Marvel. Stan Lee must be... well he's not dead yet but he'd be rolling over in his grave if he were. Mark my words, he would be.

Kontonshin
2006-06-25, 02:11 AM
Don't know if this is related at all, but apparently houseflies have little hairs, kind of like cat whiskers, which are sensitive to air currents, which is why it's so hard to swat them. Maybe spiders have a similar feature.

Ebon_Drake
2006-06-25, 09:25 AM
Uhm... nerve impulses travel at almost the speed of light (slowed down due to synapses), the 5+ feet differance between a human and a spider's body is completly negligable. Unless I'm wrong of course. In the movie they have a spider that's "reactions border on pre-cognition" but I think the reality is closer to what Ing said.
Meh, I was going off of what I read here (http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/spiderman.html), which said:

...A spider's seemingly awesome strength is related primarily to its small size, not superior genetics. For example, if a spider can jump 50 times the length of its body, then the same spider scaled up by a factor of 100 will only jump half a body length. Spiders can react faster than a human because they have far less distance to send nerve impulses and far less inertia to overcome. They also have a much smaller and more specialized brain. Scale a spider up by a factor of 100 and it would barely be able to function, that is, if it didn't collapse due to its own weight...
But then, trusting internet sources for scientific information isn't a great idea :-/.

Ing
2006-06-25, 01:33 PM
no marvel does it in usually "oh its always been that way i just never knew that before...learn something new everyday" which usually dosn't contradict everything

DC comes up with dumb ass things like "hyper time" or superboy punching reality untill it bleeds, or comes up with a whole new world to deal with the writers inabillity to communicate and keep an ongoing sense of consistancy

HabbakukUnknown
2006-06-25, 05:58 PM
in the animated Spiderman on the old Fox Kids channels, there was something to do with an irradiated spider at an experiment which bit him...

Hyrael
2006-06-25, 08:52 PM
spiders do indeed have sensory hairs that can sense air currents. and I would not be surprised if they had good reflexes for their size. and synapses do slow down nerve impulses a great deal.

Ing
2006-06-25, 10:27 PM
yes its still the radioactive spider that triggers the event. i dunno its kinda wierd and now well defined what aspect the mystical tomtem thing has

stupidmonkey
2006-09-04, 01:59 PM
Whats up with the Stark spider suit anyways... I stopped reading the comics a while ago and Wiki doesn't explain anything about it....

Beleriphon
2006-09-04, 05:50 PM
Whats up with the Stark spider suit anyways... I stopped reading the comics a while ago and Wiki doesn't explain anything about it....

Tony Stark = Crazy. Crazy = Brainwash Spiderman. Thats my summation of the whole thing.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-09-04, 08:06 PM
As an epilogue to my earlier questions in this thread:

"The Other" sucked

SteveMB
2006-09-05, 03:25 PM
Uhm... nerve impulses travel at almost the speed of light (slowed down due to synapses), the 5+ feet differance between a human and a spider's body is completly negligable.

Nerves transmit signals much slower than that -- more on the order of ten to a hundred meters per second. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential#Speed_of_propagation) It takes a significant fraction of a second for a signal to travel the length of something the size of a human.

StickMan
2006-09-05, 10:15 PM
its just a comic thing.

Jack_Banzai
2006-09-06, 03:46 AM
I will say that there was actually a significant amount of foreshadowing as to Peter's more mystical origins, particularly during one jaunt to the Astral plane some years before The Other, when he encountered an immense entity in the shape of a spider.

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-09-07, 02:27 PM
Would it be proper to call it a form of telepathy? Many people do have preternatural sense to some degree: have you ever had an inexplicable feeling, a "pit of my stomach" thing, that something real bad is about to happen, but just can't say what? I think of "Spidey sense" as a more advanced form of that.

The Demented One
2006-09-08, 06:06 PM
Whats up with the Stark spider suit anyways... I stopped reading the comics a while ago and Wiki doesn't explain anything about it....
Yes, it does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man%27s_powers_and_equipment#Tony_Stark.27s_.22Iro n_Spider.22_costume)

stupidmonkey
2006-09-09, 08:18 AM
Yes, it does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man%27s_powers_and_equipment#Tony_Stark.27s_.22Iro n_Spider.22_costume)

Somehow missed that - thanks!

Semaj_Valencia
2006-09-09, 10:37 AM
Prickley feeling and good reflexes.

Kidd of Steel
2007-02-02, 03:09 AM
The Spider-sense is, in my opinion, the most underutilized and potentially greatest power that Spider-man has. If you follow the current explenation of Spider-man being in the center of a "web" of the environment around him, I think that it is reasonable that this sense could allow him to begin to predict not only threats, but ultimately be able to predict an opponents movement. He has, I think, the potential to be untouchable in any melee combat. If he trained with any close-combat master, of which in the Marvel universe there are many, the Spider-sense combined with his reflexes could be frightening.

The Dirge
2007-02-02, 03:54 AM
Spider sense can't be that good if I can crush spiders with ease.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-02, 06:57 AM
The Spider-sense is, in my opinion, the most underutilized and potentially greatest power that Spider-man has. If you follow the current explenation of Spider-man being in the center of a "web" of the environment around him, I think that it is reasonable that this sense could allow him to begin to predict not only threats, but ultimately be able to predict an opponents movement. He has, I think, the potential to be untouchable in any melee combat. If he trained with any close-combat master, of which in the Marvel universe there are many, the Spider-sense combined with his reflexes could be frightening.

Um. Spidey can already do that. He can concentrate on his spider sense to such a degree that he can fight blindfolded.

They just don't use the ability that often. For one, it's hard to draw, and for another, you can only have so many plots where Pete gets blinded or fights in a pitch black room before he turns into the Daredevil.

selfcritical
2007-02-02, 01:17 PM
The first character to espouse the "spiderman is a man who is the mystic representation of spiderness" theory that I recall is Kraven, in Kraven's last hunt.

Kidd of Steel
2007-02-03, 01:04 AM
Um. Spidey can already do that. He can concentrate on his spider sense to such a degree that he can fight blindfolded.

They just don't use the ability that often. For one, it's hard to draw, and for another, you can only have so many plots where Pete gets blinded or fights in a pitch black room before he turns into the Daredevil.

I realize that he can fight blindfolded and that wasn't what I was trying to suggest. I'm not just talking about what his opponent is currently doing, or is planning to do next. I think that he could accurately predict and avoid an opponent's entire battle strategy.

For example, the Taskmaster, is by far an amazing fighter. One of the best if not the best. His ability to mimic movement just by watching is ridiculous. I think that if Spider-man honed his spider-sense, that it wouldn't matter whose fighting style he used. No matter what the Taskmaster was about to do or was doing, Spidey could "read" Taskmaster's entire battle strategy, avoid it, and exploit it's weaknesses.

I'm not exactly talking about esp, he can't predict the weather or when someone else is going to die. I want to say that he could be able to determine anyone's movements and intentions, threats to himself or anyone within his "web." More than just an odd feeling he gets, but to be able to clearly "see" or "read" exactly what anyone within his "web" was about to do.

TheThan
2007-02-04, 01:26 AM
So, people were complaining about how realistic the radioactive spider bite?

Thatís just silly, itís a comic book! Itís not about emulating real science. Itís about having fun. Iím sorry I just donít get it, thereís nothing wrong with the original origin. Besides in a world where people wear ďsuper suitsĒ and others run around with beneficial mutations that let them control the weather or shoot ray beams out of his eyes, or inexplicably fly (strings I say! Strings!) I think its ok to play a little loose with the rules.

Really Iíve always though his spider sense is more reflex action (notice how he usually jumps straight up when it kicks in), its semi-involuntary as he can consciously override it.
You ever have the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end when something bad happens? Its kind of like that, only so intense that it triggers an involuntary leap (or what ever) to safety.

But hereís the lowdown on spiderman:
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_%28Peter_Parker%29

Mewtarthio
2007-02-04, 07:37 PM
Really I’ve always though his spider sense is more reflex action (notice how he usually jumps straight up when it kicks in), its semi-involuntary as he can consciously override it.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that at least once it's been stated that Spidey uses his Spider sense to simplify his battles (it's easier to fight if you know what's coming next) so that he can make up his one-liners to throw his opponents off-guard.

Beleriphon
2007-02-05, 01:38 AM
Actually, I'm fairly certain that at least once it's been stated that Spidey uses his Spider sense to simplify his battles (it's easier to fight if you know what's coming next) so that he can make up his one-liners to throw his opponents off-guard.

His spidey tracers are also triggered to his spider sense. So he can track one of those suckers with just his brain!

Lord Zentei
2007-02-05, 11:45 AM
The Spider-sense is, in my opinion, the most underutilized and potentially greatest power that Spider-man has. If you follow the current explenation of Spider-man being in the center of a "web" of the environment around him, I think that it is reasonable that this sense could allow him to begin to predict not only threats, but ultimately be able to predict an opponents movement. He has, I think, the potential to be untouchable in any melee combat. If he trained with any close-combat master, of which in the Marvel universe there are many, the Spider-sense combined with his reflexes could be frightening.

There may of course, be limits to how accurate, how quick and how reliable the power is. Knowing that there is an opponent closing on you is a hell of a lot simpler than effective combat precog would need to be.

Constantinople
2007-02-05, 12:15 PM
What I don't get is Spider-Man's "Iron Spider" suit. Was it a full armour thing, or mostly cloth? In one of the Civil War issues, it's mostly cloth, but elsewhere, it seems to be full armour, like Iron Man's armour.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2007-02-05, 02:15 PM
What I don't get is Spider-Man's "Iron Spider" suit. Was it a full armour thing, or mostly cloth? In one of the Civil War issues, it's mostly cloth, but elsewhere, it seems to be full armour, like Iron Man's armour.

It was magical nano-mabbobers that let it be both as flexible as cloth and as hard as Iron Man armor.

Since this thread has been rezzed again, I feel it necessary to restate:


As an epilogue to my earlier questions in this thread:

"The Other" sucked

because it can not be emphasized enough. MAN.

Logic
2007-02-05, 04:35 PM
"The Other" suckedI disagree. Though it was not great, it was a decent enough story to merit its own graphic novel.
Marvel Zombies, however, sucked.

Mewtarthio
2007-02-10, 11:47 PM
because it can not be emphasized enough. MAN.

What? You saying something's wrong with Spiderman suddenly suffering an incurable disease while simultaneously being killed by a random villain only to hatch from his cocoon exactly the same only with his powers enhanced in a manner similar to what could easily be explained to training and his web shooters are organic now?

Oh, wait, the power enhancement and organic web shooters came during that story where he fights the freaky insect queen lady who kills him and then he's reborn out of his own abdomen. The story that occurred less than a year beforehand. My bad.

What exactly was it that The Other actually gave us, again? Oh, yeah! "Spiders don't have stingers!" "Not yet they don't, but they will in the future!"

Nightwing
2007-02-26, 09:11 PM
Here's something I've wondered for a while:

Does the idea for Spiderman's Spider Sense have any actual basis in real spiders, like web-spinning does? Or is it just something made up to give him a neat power?

I don't think they have any real basis.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-27, 06:15 AM
I don't think they have any real basis.

It doesn't have a real basis, but it's explained in a way that makes it similar to a real spider's tremorsense; he lives in the middle of an 'astral web', apparently.

ravenkith
2007-02-27, 11:41 AM
The spider sense has a basis in reality.

If you care to try experimenting, you may find that, a spider, placed under a heat lamp and in a caged area, will almost always move rapidly after an object passes between the lamp and the spider, or they are hit by a stiff breeze (say, from a handheld fan, especially when employed in a pulsing or sudden manner).

Spiders are natural hunters, and are coated in thousands of tiny hairs. Not only does this enable them to sense the struggles of their prey when in a web, but to a certain degree, it lets them sense the movement of the air around them, and gives them an intense sensitivity to variances in temperature.

Humans have this ability, too, but to a much lesser degree: You may , from time to time, notice that when the temperature changes suddenly, you may experience a strange feeling as all of your hairs stand up, trying to trap as much heat as possible.

Either a sudden, intense wind, or a shadow can cause a spider to just take off as quick as it can, or leap, in the case of jumping spiders.

It is a conditioned response to very specific stimuli. This 'sense' probably evolved to help them avoid airborne predators, such as birds, and, to a certain extent, is a learned response combined with natural sensory input, if operating at intensified levels because of the thousands of short, bristly hairs most spiders are coated by.

It is much more difficult for a swooping bird to hit a moving target, but the spider's normal hunting state is often one of ambush-thus, immobility.

Those spiders who had these hairs, and the senses that go with them, had a slight advantage over those that didn't...a milisecond head start granted by paying attention to what their hair is telling them...and evolution took care of the rest.

Of course, this is of limited usefulness because it has a relatively short range, and if an object is travelling fast enough, it will get to the spider before the spider can get out of the way.

Yuki Akuma
2007-03-02, 07:06 PM
But Spidey can tell whether opening a door would be dangerous because of, say, a bomb. That really has nothing to do with sensing changes in air currents or temperature.

Additionally, his clones, as well as the Venom symbiote and its descendents, never trigger his Spider Sense, which would make no sense if it was purely to do with detecting changes in the air.

Dariendel
2007-03-03, 12:49 AM
I forgot the comic, but I believe Venom has found a way to approach Spiderman without activating his Spider-sense.

Eddie Brock went to this druggie ex-marine to learn some tips about combat (forgive me, I vaguely remember the words). Further into the comic, Eddie finds Peter Parker in the subway, comes directly behind him and then pushes Peter into the Rail. Peter was left dumbfounded.

Spider-sense reminds of something I watched in Bleach and Naruto... if they can't sense your reiatsu or your chakra, they'll sense your killing intent.

Midnight Lurker
2007-03-03, 02:34 AM
Pete's spider-sense is definitely psionic or mystical in nature.

I mean, not only can he sense immediate personal danger, but if some hideously powerful cosmic force is about to vaporize the Earth or invert the very fabric of the Universe, Pete will know something's horribly wrong. Even though there's ****-all he can do about it. :smallsmile:

Mewtarthio
2007-03-03, 07:53 PM
I forgot the comic, but I believe Venom has found a way to approach Spiderman without activating his Spider-sense.

Eddie Brock went to this druggie ex-marine to learn some tips about combat (forgive me, I vaguely remember the words). Further into the comic, Eddie finds Peter Parker in the subway, comes directly behind him and then pushes Peter into the Rail. Peter was left dumbfounded.

Spider-sense reminds of something I watched in Bleach and Naruto... if they can't sense your reiatsu or your chakra, they'll sense your killing intent.

The alien symbiote that bonded to Eddie to form Venom had previously been bonded to Peter as the "Black Spidey Suit." As such, Venom does not trigger the Spider Sense at all. Note that there are other villains who have evaded such detection in the past (the Green Goblin first discovered Parker's double life when he had some expendable minions hit him with a Spider-Sense-supressing gas so he could trail Spiderman unnoticed), but as far as I recall Venom and Carnage (who is the "child" of that same symbiote) are the only ones able to do it consistently.

Yuki Akuma
2007-03-03, 07:57 PM
Pete's spider-sense is definitely psionic or mystical in nature.

I mean, not only can he sense immediate personal danger, but if some hideously powerful cosmic force is about to vaporize the Earth or invert the very fabric of the Universe, Pete will know something's horribly wrong. Even though there's ****-all he can do about it. :smallsmile:

That usually leaves him with a headache at best. At worst, he falls unconcious.

Gotta love danger-sense powers that can be dangerous in and of themselves sometimes. Imagine what would happen if Entropy suddenly decided to go help Earth along on its path to decay while Petey was in free-fall during web slinging.