View Full Version : 8 Flavors of Wizard

2010-05-10, 10:31 PM
So I am planning a high level encounter for my campaign and I was wanting to us a group of Wizards not unlike the Red Wizards with each of the bosses being an archetype for their specialized school of magic. Here is what I have so far
Abjur. Wiz/Master Specialist/Initiate of the 7 fold veil/ archmage to cap
Conj. No idea but summoning based so maybe thamagist?
Evoc. either wiz/Incantrix/Archmage or sor/wiz/Ultimate magus/archmage with feats to improve metamagic
Illus. wiz/Master spec/nightmare spinner
Trans. I like master transmorgrfist but would prefer something that kept spell progression
Necro. Pale master? or maybe wiz/clr/Mystic Theurge/True necro?
Enchant. Again, no idea. I think mindbender is fun but again I want better spell progression
Div. unseen seer? This one is tough
The PCs are all veterans and will be very optimized by the level I want this encounter at (level 15-17) so as long as there is nothing that is just pure cheese it is allowed. Thanks for the help!

2010-05-10, 10:33 PM
Evoc. either wiz/Incantrix/Archmage or sor/wiz/Ultimate magus/archmage with feats to improve metamagic
I believe technically Incantatrix is an Abj. PrC, and Ultimate Magus doesn't seem that great for Evokers in particular. Elemental Savant, maybe?

2010-05-10, 10:35 PM
My thoughts:

Conjuration: Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 7 is pretty solid, for a simple build. A level of Sacred Exorcist and/or Paragnostic Apostle adds some interesting possibilities (Turn Undead and Fast Healing to all summons, respectively), and the last two levels of Malconvoker are by no means bad. Archmage also is pretty interesting, for the SLA'd Summon Monster IX.

Evocation must be Incantatrix. Unless she's banned. Force Missile Mage and/or Argent Savant are nice-ish, though both lose a caster level. Silver Flame Pyromancer is kind of interesting for a fire-theme, but loses a caster level.

Illusion/Enchantment: Beguiler.
Necromancy: Dread Necromancer. Dear lord, do not use True Necromancer.

Doing either of those two with a Wizard is just kind of silly. You can, but Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are just so much more elegant.

2010-05-10, 10:36 PM
Evoker: Mailman
Conjurer: Nanobots
Abjurer: Swiftblade Abjurant Champion

2010-05-10, 10:36 PM
Totally forgot about elemental savant, yes that is a good choice too. My thought behind Ultimate magus for evoc. was that it allows a lot of blasting and on the fly metmagic and increased caster level.

2010-05-10, 10:42 PM
If you're including things from Pathfinder, the Summoner from the Advanced Player's Guide can be pretty brutal at high levels for Conjurers, and rather suprising for PCs who aren't familiar with the class. Give them the Augment Summoning feat to top it off too.

The Glyphstone
2010-05-10, 10:48 PM
I did something very much like this for my RL game a while back, though the PCs fought each of them individually in themed 'lairs' - for example, the diviner was at the far end of a room jam-packed with a ridiculous number of traps.

For you, though, I'd recommend speciality casters where possible.

Evocation = Warmage.
Necromancy = Dread Necromancer.
Illusion = Beguiler.

It's not as optimal in max power as full Wizards would be, but I'm assuming you don't want to utterly curbstomp the PCs with the unstoppable devastation that eight full casters with 9th level spells could create. The T3 'single-school casters' are effective at their intended role/school, though poor everywhere else.

2010-05-10, 11:06 PM
do Not use True Necromancer +1

For necromancer I would suggest a Necropolitian Human Focused Necromancer5/Red Wizard5. This would allow a sizable army without much sacrifice on curses and without resorting to infinite army cheese.

Arcane Thesis Extend Chain Command Undead
+ Circle Magic for 40cl (limit to 1 spell per circle and leading 1 circle per day)
is sufficient for a large finite undead army

Note: by sizable I mean around 50K undead at high levels.

After all what else is there to necromancy besides

Undead Army
Undead Body
Life & Death (you might need Arcane Disciple to grab the life side of necromancy)

2010-05-10, 11:15 PM
So I am planning a high level encounter for my campaign and I was wanting to us a group of Wizards not unlike the Red Wizards with each of the bosses being an archetype for their specialized school of magic. Here is what I have so far

For Wizard-based builds:

Conjurer--Malconvoker? It's more the Summoning-flavored conjuring. Loses a CL, but it isn't so bad.
Transmuter--War Weaver? It's not a pretty fit, but mechanically, it works nicely.
Enchanter--I want to say some sort of Arcane Thrallherd. Master Specialist is the best easy build I've got.
Diviner--Divine Oracle works nicely, if you aren't into the Unseen Seer thing.

2010-05-10, 11:35 PM
Here is a useful link:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145571&highlight=Necromancy+Army+Animate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145571&highlight=Necromancy+Army+Animate)

I think my necromancer solution is better.

2010-05-10, 11:57 PM
For a fun take on a Necromancer wizard (if you're set on all-wizards) is the Uttercold Necromancer.

Since Dread Necromancers and Clerics do "hordes of undead" better by default, it's a good idea to have your own shtick. The main idea is to use Uttercold Walls of Fire (or something similar) to damage your foes at the same time as healing your undead allies. (The Lord of the Uttercold feat in Compete Arcane makes [cold] spells deal half-cold, half-negative-energy damage; how cool is that?)

Throw on some Corpsecrafter feats (Libris Mortis) as you like. (The one that makes your undead explode after they... er, die... is particularly fun.)

2010-05-11, 12:32 AM
For real fun, put them up against a killer gnome for the illusion specialist. :smalltongue:

2010-05-11, 12:36 AM
Evocation: Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 3/ Frost Mage 4/ Incantatrix 10, with Snowcasting, Frozen Magic, and Cold Spell Specialization, in a below-freezing environment. He can cast Obscuring Snow with (potion of) Snowsight up for a type of defense that they may not be expecting. Frostburn is a necessary book for this.

Illusion: Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 8, Gnome Wizard 1 substitution level, all UA Illusionist variants, Signature Spell: Silent Image, Heighten Spell, Earth Spell, Residual Magic, Enhanced Shadow Reality, Ability Focus: Silent Image, Easy Metamagic: Heighten, Metamagic School Focus, etc.

2010-05-11, 04:36 AM
Hm, I did something along these lines at a point (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145571); that thread may interest you. There's some brainstorming there along with some builds for each type (though not all of them really are in a satisfactory guise; the Necromancer is particularly hard since Wizards aren't very good at it and PrCs don't really exist for a true Necromancer [particularly not that one]). Oh, and if you don't mind bustedness, Evoker is fine as Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/War Mage 5 (War Mage is a 5-level PrC from Age of Mortals, not to be confused with Warmage base class from CArC).

Here's my builds:
Abjurer: Illumian Cloistered Cleric 1/Abjurer 1/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 1 (Mastery of Counterspelling)
Conjurer: Conjurer 3/Master Conjurer 2/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5/Wayfarer Guide 1
Diviner: Diviner 5/Divine Oracle 10/Loremaster 1/Fatespinner 4 [Could go Unseen Seer but that'd be more of a skill monkey build and wouldn't be able to fit Divine Oracle 10 and a relevant amount of Unseen Seer; besides, as a Diviner, Unseen Seer just gets you few non-Wizard spells - Rogue 1/Diviner 4/Unseen Seer 10/Loremaster 1/Fatespinner 4 would be a fair alternative]
Enchanter: Enchanter 4/Mindbender 1/Nightmare Spinner (Enchantment Adaptation) 5/Master Enchanter 10 [Master Enchanter is mediocre]
Evoker: Evoker 4/Warmage 1/Ultimate Magus 10/War Mage 5
Illusionist: Illusionist 3/Master Illusionist 2/Shadowcrafter 9/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Shadow Adept 1
Necromancer: Necromancer 5/Palemaster 10/Dread Witch 5 [Pretty horrible overall; not good at Making Dead Walk though with some rather respectable Fear-abilities working on anything]
Transmuter: Transmuter 5/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5/Archmage 5 [Meh; could go some other way, but all Transmutation PrCs just lose so damn many caster levels and Master Transmuter is trash, so I went "Super" Buffer as one of the tamer War Weaver shells, due to Wizard-focus]

2010-05-11, 06:26 AM
Divination: The diviner should be an Unseen Seer, Divine Oracle, or a mix. (yes, wizards can take it too.) Fatespinner is also a decent choice.

Necromancy: Pale Master isn't great, but it's definitely better than True Necro, especially since you don't need divine casting for your wizard concept. Dread Necro is best, but also isn't a wizard, so Pale Master will suffice there.

Illusion: Shadowcraft Mage >>>> Nightmare Spinner. It's not just for gnomes thanks to the adaptation, though you could of course make this wizard be a gnome anyway.

2010-05-11, 07:26 AM
Abjuration: Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Master Specialist 4/Abjurant Champion 4/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7

2010-05-11, 02:23 PM
Wow, lots of possiblities. A lot to think about. The gnome illusionist idea has peaked my interest as did the necro uttercold. What would a good endboss be? I was not going to have him specialized (master of everything really) in a school. Note that these are all separate encounters so the PCs won't have to be, as someone phrased it, curbstomped. Assuming separate encounters thanks to you guys I am now thinking something like:
Abj:Wiz3/master spec4/Initiate of the 7 fold veil7/Abjurent Champion5/Archmage1.
Conj:Wiz3/Master spec.7/Malconvoker 9 (never heard of this before but awesome!)/Archmage 1 (for the smn9 SLA)
Evoc:Pretty much same as before wiz/incantrix etc.
Illus:Wiz3/Master spec.4/Shadowcraft mage5 (another one new to me)/nightmare spinner 5/x2
Div:Wiz5/Unseen seer5/Divine Oracle6...need something to round out this one, is fatespinner worth it for 4 levels?
Necro:A difficulty but I like Kosjsjach idea of the uttercold necro. Is that just straight specialist and that's it? Incantrix for the bonus feats and meta might work.
Trans:I think just for the appeal of it going with just straight wiz/master transmorgfist and having him only use buffs and polymorph.
Enchant: tough, stilll unsure.

2010-05-11, 03:12 PM
Abj:Wiz3/master spec4/Initiate of the 7 fold veil7/Abjurent Champion5/Archmage1.

Abjurant Champion is frankly quite bad for a caster. Quick Cast only goes up to level 3, and most of the AC bonuses aren't that amazing; not to mention, the biggest class features like Martial Arcanist and full BAB are completely wasted on a caster. Let's face it, it's a Gish PrC for melee casters, which this is very far from.

On the other hand, Master Specialist level 10 ability is awesome; cast AMFs on people, no save. And such. As such, I'd strongly suggest Master Specialist over Abjurant Champion. And to still fit Archmage 1 in, you need to enter Master Specialist on level 3 (so Wizard 2/Master Specialist ->); but that's easy since the skill prerequisites of Master Specialist only require level 2. You can use something like Precocious Apprentice or Improved Sigil: Krau (if Illumian, as I suggest) to enter Master Specialist one level early buying the slot for Archmage.

As for why I suggest the Cleric-level, it qualifies you for a feat from Fiendish Codex II called "Divine Defiance" which enables you to burn turn attempt for immediate action counterspell (without the need to ready actions!). It requires Divine Caster Level 3, but Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric or Illumian race [RoD] (taking the Krau-sigil) gives this to you with only one level of Cleric. As this benefit is completely incomparable, and with the early entry through "Precocious Apprentice" [CArc] or "Improved Sigil: Krau" [RoD] doesn't delay your Master Specialist at all, I strongly suggest it (the caster level loss is avoided through Krau-sigil Illumian again).

Conj:Wiz3/Master spec.7/Malconvoker 9 (never heard of this before but awesome!)/Archmage 1 (for the smn9 SLA)

Master Specialist 10 is awesome, but Master Specialist 7 is only "relatively useful" as your summons quickly spread out making it hard to dispel them efficiently anyways. As such, I still suggest Thaumaturgist; you can qualify through Arcane Disciple [CArc]: Summoning [Spell Compendium] and getting free Augment Summoning and Extend Summoning already makes it well worth your while. Also, Wayfarer Guide is a nice 1-level dip since it emphasises another aspect of Conjuration with one level so well; it makes you a better teleporter.

Evoc:Pretty much same as before wiz/incantrix etc.

If possible, use the War Mage PrC [Age of Mortals]. It's totally awesome a blaster PrC and definitely makes it feel like a more special evoker rather than yet another guy throwing Fireballs. Adding damage per each die hurts.

Illus:Wiz3/Master spec.4/Shadowcraft mage5 (another one new to me)/nightmare spinner 5/x2

Shadowcrafter [Underdark] is great complement to Shadowcraft Mage. Makes your Shadow spells even more real allowing you to reach 100% reality. Nightmare Spinner isn't that amazing, on the other hand so I suggest the swap. And Shadow Adept [PGtF] gets you 3 awesome Shadow-related feats in one level.

Div:Wiz5/Unseen seer5/Divine Oracle6...need something to round out this one, is fatespinner worth it for 4 levels?

Yes, Fatespinner is awesome for 4 levels. I definitely suggest maxing out Divine Oracle as its capstone is so awesome (Always act on surprise round!). And Loremaster is a nice Diviner-class for remaining levels if any. It gets some decent abilities and SLA Identifies and such; Lore too. And fits right in the fluff.

Trans:I think just for the appeal of it going with just straight wiz/master transmorgfist and having him only use buffs and polymorph.

Pretty weak as it doesn't get 9th level spells and thus Shapechange, the only shapechanging spell you'll ever need (and by far the best one). As such, I wouldn't bother with Master Transmogrifist since Wizard 10/Master Transmogrifist 10 is just worse at shapechanging that Wizard 20.

Enchant: tough, stilll unsure.

Mindbender 1 and Nightmare Spinner with the enchantment adaptation are musts.

EDIT: Also, don't forget the obligatory minions each type has:
- Conjurer has something Planar Bound (and even Planar Allied if going with Thaumaturgist) plus maybe some Contingent Summon (if Thaumaturgist again) to get some help in the beginning of battle; then more summoning.
- Enchanter has dominated allies of whatever type desired; probably lower Will-save Humanoids especially.
- Illusionist has illusions, of course, and maybe a Simulacrum or two if the spell is allowed.
- Necromancer has...well, this is a bit too obvious.
- Transmuter can have something built or constructed; Constructs work, of course, and there's PAOd stuff and such.