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Holy_Knight
2006-05-31, 03:08 AM
Technically this is about a TV show, but since it's a TV show about a comic book character I figure this is still the right section.

Anyway, what do you guys think of Smallville? I like it, although I have to admit that pretty much every episode I ask myself: "Why do I watch this show?" The reason? Because it seems like every episode the writers go: "Now how can we make every character miserable this week?" Seriously, it's depressing! I do like it, but I'm serious that I ask myself that question!

Also, even though I feel sorry for him, I'm jealous of Clark. If I were him, I'd go out with Chloe. (Stupid Clark having a really great girl in love with him but not doing anything about it, *mumble* *grumble*...) Okay, kind of got off on a tangent there. Who else likes Smallville? :)

anphorus
2006-05-31, 06:51 AM
I like Smallville and I own the first three series on DVD. I've just watched "Oracle" the penultimate episode of season 5. That episode contains everything I love about the show. Lex Luthor is fantastic in this series and I love "Milton Fine" as well.

Fun Fact: The guy who does the voice of Jor-El in Smallville is the same guy who played General Zod in Superman 2

Evik
2006-05-31, 08:16 PM
I love Smallville too!
i have my DVR set to record it whenever a new episode comes on :D
I cant wait to see how Clark gets out of the Phantom Zone :D
Anxiously awaiting next season !!!!!

Scion_of_the_Light
2006-05-31, 10:27 PM
It's a great show. Without their actor for Lionel, though, the show would just die.

Steward
2006-05-31, 10:40 PM
It's a good show. It would be better if they could get rid of that annoying character played by Kristin Kreuk.

Beleriphon
2006-05-31, 10:49 PM
It's a good show. It would be better if they could get rid of that annoying character played by Kristin Kreuk.


And yet that wont happen since she is moderately important to Superman continuity.

Edit:

Also, has it occured to anybody else that the "kill the vessel" idea isn't a reference to Zod, but instead Jor-El.

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 08:17 AM
Technically this is about a TV show, but since it's a TV show about a comic book character I figure this is still the right section.

Anyway, what do you guys think of Smallville? I like it, although I have to admit that pretty much every episode I ask myself: "Why do I watch this show?" The reason? Because it seems like every episode the writers go: "Now how can we make every character miserable this week?" Seriously, it's depressing! I do like it, but I'm serious that I ask myself that question!

Also, even though I feel sorry for him, I'm jealous of Clark. If I were him, I'd go out with Chloe. (Stupid Clark having a really great girl in love with him but not doing anything about it, *mumble* *grumble*...) Okay, kind of got off on a tangent there. Who else likes Smallville? :)
I love Smallville, though I have to agree that this past season was pretty depressing. Still the season finale was amazing. I have no idea how they're going to rescue anyone, must less everyone. Well I could see Lionel and Cloe surviving a beating, but I don't see how Martha and Lois can survive, or how Clark can come back. As for Lana, well, I used to really like her, but I've gotten a little tired of her pretty-girl judgementality when it comes to Clark. How many times has Clark saved her life? Yet she's so judgemental of him for keeping his secrets. So much so that now she's even gone off with Lex. Part of me actually didn't feel sympathetic and horrified when she kissed Zod--but only part of me. :D

Speaking of Zod, Terrance Stamp, who plays the voice of Jor-El in Smallville, also played the character of Zod not only in Superman II but in Superman: The Motion Picture.

Apparently there's an extra scene not shown in the theater version of Superman II but show sometimes on TV, in which three three Kryptonian villain, rather than disappearing under the Fortress of Solitude, are taken into custody.

Oh, as another bit of trivia, Annette O'Toole, the actress who plays Martha Kent on Smallville also plays Lana Lang in Superman III.

I really do enjoy Smallville. I know that a lot of people don't like it because it plays fast and loose with some of the established Superman history, or because of the teen angst, but I really love it. I particularly love the way that Clark is so noble and always tries to do the right thing. I can always see him as growing up into Superman. In fact, I hope they continue Smallville long enough so that we get to see him finally become Superman.

I'm bummed out that they killed off Jonathan. That fits though with the Superman movie franchise, where Jonathan dies of a heart attack before Clark even learns that he's an alien, much less becomes Superman. Smallville has drawn heavily on the movie franchise, not only by bringing in four actors from it (Annette O'Toole, Terrance Stamp, Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder) but also the music.



Also, has it occured to anybody else that the "kill the vessel" idea isn't a reference to Zod, but instead Jor-El.
Nope, since it's Jor-El who told him to kill the vessel.

anphorus
2006-06-02, 09:25 AM
I really like how Jor-El has been portrayed in Smallville. Everyone thinks he's the bad guy, when really all he wants is for Clark to fufill his destiny and become Superman, defender of Earth. I love all of the little references to the future they put in everywhere, especially in the episode with the Flash where they mentioned the Justice League (and the Superfriends). I really hope they get Bruce Wayne into Smallville somehow. When they first started Smallville I was wondering why they had cast someone with black hair as Lana Lang, when in the comics she'd always been a Red-head. But then when I saw Erica Durance as Lois I couldn't help but laugh.

I have to agree that Lex and Lionel (and the scenes between them) are the best bits of the show. Especially the hair differences.

I did not know that Annette O'Tool was Lois. Wow, thats pretty cool.

Fun Fact again: Micheal Rosenbaum, the guy who plays Lex, also does the voice of The Flash in Justice League Unlimited.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-02, 10:42 AM
I'm just a ltitle black raincloud...

I actually wrote something about smallville several months ago. My opinion haven't really changed, so I'll just repost it. Enjoy ;)

-=-=-=-=-=-

"Its a show, that, in spite of myself, I keep watching. I'm not even entirely sure why. I loathe Clark and the portrayal of the character. He's an utter idiot.

I detest Lana. She's most definetely what one would call 'easy', however she couples that with being an annoying little twit, and the scenes with her and Clark together are utterly agonizing.

The only thing that kept me from being mad that Clarky poo went back in time and saved her was that his Dad died instead. I couldn't much take him any more than I could his son.

As well, the plots always stink, and are as full of holes as swiss cheese treated to a spray from a shotgun. And please, for the love of all decency stop with these little quips like that one where a certain Lois Lane says, "Me and Clark, together? HA, not if he was the last guy on earth." with everyone knowing they will in fact become an 'item'. I don't know what the phrase is for things like that, but its agonizing.

And then you have this thing with though Clark has hearing better than dogs, he never notices the bad guy, even if its a normal human, standing right beside him. He can chase down a bullet but he can't duck away from someone who, to him, is turning in sloowwwwly motion with kyptonite? I mean, there was even a little bit of this in the original Superman, but its concentrated in these shows like crazy.

Why then do I still watch the bloody thing? WHY?

About the only characters I do like is Chloe and Lex. I think they may be the only reason I watch the thing.

Chloe is like a breath of fresh air in the stuffiness of the stupidity and angsty teen melodrama that is the rest of it. Greatest quote ever, "You want to hang around with those... those plastic blonde barbie dolls?" She brings what little sensibility exists in the world of Smallville, and says the things that you wish you could say.

Lex I also enjoy, because as sleazy as they try to make him seem, I like him far better than good ole american dolt, Clark, and he actually rarely comes across as the bad guy. The constant battle between him and his father and you never knowing what the other is actually trying to accomplish is also interesting. Lionell is the perfect evil fellow. Someone whoes so charismatic it makes you wanna sob but then stabs you in the back so cleverly that you thank him for it. The two of them interacting and their plots brings some of the only good to the show. I'm still wondering how Lex is supposed to turn into a genius evil scientist type, because as far as I can tell he mainly surrounds himself with specialists. If its because his mind remains partially taken over by Zurg (WHY is he here already anyways?!) that makes him what he becomes I'm gonna scream.

It may be that that I watch the show for. But it certainly isn't for the rest of it which makes me twitch."

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 10:52 AM
I really like how Jor-El has been portrayed in Smallville. Everyone thinks he's the bad guy, when really all he wants is for Clark to fufill his destiny and become Superman, defender of Earth. I love all of the little references to the future they put in everywhere, especially in the episode with the Flash where they mentioned the Justice League (and the Superfriends). I really hope they get Bruce Wayne into Smallville somehow. When they first started Smallville I was wondering why they had cast someone with black hair as Lana Lang, when in the comics she'd always been a Red-head. But then when I saw Erica Durance as Lois I couldn't help but laugh.

I have to agree that Lex and Lionel (and the scenes between them) are the best bits of the show. Especially the hair differences.

I did not know that Annette O'Tool was Lois. Wow, thats pretty cool.

Fun Fact again: Micheal Rosenbaum, the guy who plays Lex, also does the voice of The Flash in Justice League Unlimited.

Yes, I'd noticed about Michael Rosenbaum playing the voice of Flash.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Lois being played by Erica Durance having something to do with Lana not having red hair.

I had heard during the first season of Smallville that they were going to bring in a young Bruce Wayne as a business associate of Lex Luthor but of course they never did. I don't know why they changed their minds.

I did catch Flash's reference to the Justice League ("we should for a club or a league or something") but not to Superfriends.

Oh I meant to mention earlier that I've always felt bad for Cloe being in love with Clark when he doesn't return her affections. I think he never will, either. I think it will always be either Lana or Lois.

molonel
2006-06-02, 11:17 AM
As for Lana, well, I used to really like her, but I've gotten a little tired of her pretty-girl judgementality when it comes to Clark. *How many times has Clark saved her life? *Yet she's so judgemental of him for keeping his secrets.

Here's something cool if you're age 21+: we have a drinking game we play sometimes when we watch Smallville. Whenever someone mentions "secrets" or "keeping secrets" or somesuch, everyone takes a drink.

If it's an episode with Lana and Clark talking about relationships, you will end up quite snookered by the end of the episode.

I think we once counted somewhere between twenty and thirty references in a single episode.

WampaX
2006-06-02, 11:43 AM
I'm just a ltitle black raincloud...

I actually wrote something about smallville several months ago. My opinion haven't really changed, so I'll just repost it. Enjoy ;)

I stopped watching after they ended 4 episodes the same way 4 times in a row. It really wasn't that hard and I'm not too concerened about missing that last month or so of episodes. I found other more engaging media to occupy my time.

Kanashimi
2006-06-02, 11:50 AM
Small World Fun Fact: The young man who plays Clark is the son of one of my parent's neighbors! Also, Tom Welling got married the same place I did. He's really a nice guy and very humble about his sudden acting success.

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 11:54 AM
Here's something cool if you're age 21+: we have a drinking game we play sometimes when we watch Smallville. Whenever someone mentions "secrets" or "keeping secrets" or somesuch, everyone takes a drink.

If it's an episode with Lana and Clark talking about relationships, you will end up quite snookered by the end of the episode.

I think we once counted somewhere between twenty and thirty references in a single episode.
I'm actually (2x21)+. ;)

Yeah, I must admit that by now I'm tired of Lana whining about Clark keeping secrets. I mean, doesn't him saving her life two or three dozen times get her to cut him some slack? Of course the joke is on her, getting involved with Mr. Secrets himself, Lex Luthor. And it's an even bigger joke now that he's really General Zod.

I'm actually hoping that, assuming they save Clark, Lana and Lois, that Clark will be mostly done with Lana and start to heat things up with Lois. She's more my type anyway--or would be, if I were only 21+ instead of (2x21)+. ;) Really Martha's more age appropriate for me. Hmm. You know I just realized that Jonathan's dead now... :D




I stopped watching after they ended 4 episodes the same way 4 times in a row. It really wasn't that hard and I'm not too concerened about missing that last month or so of episodes. I found other more engaging media to occupy my time.
BlasPHEMer! ;)
(By the way, that's the second time I've used "BlasPHEMer!" but I think the reference is just too obscure for anyone to get. In Monty Python's Life of Brian, John Cleese says "blasphemer" with an emphasis on the second syllable during the stoning scene.:D)



Small World Fun Fact: The young man who plays Clark is the son of one of my parent's neighbors! Also, Tom Welling got married the same place I did. He's really a nice guy and very humble about his sudden acting success.
You da MAN, Kanashimi! (Heh, I've always wanted to say that to a women.) Seriously though, thanks for sharing that with us. From the little I've seen of Tom Welling he does seem like a cool guy, and he must be if he'll make goofy movies with Steve Martin. :D So many actors and actresses turn out to be pompous know-nothings when you hear them out of character. I'm glad to know Tom's not like that.

Someone else from the Superman franchise who's not like that is Teri Hatcher. She is so funny and goofy in person; I just lover her. She too is more age appropriate for me. :D Um, but, um, I digress. It's so cool that you know his family and got married at the same place you did. Wait. He's married already? Isn't he kind of young?

Edit: Heck, I see that he's 29. I had no idea he was that old. Nevermind. :-[

Ing
2006-06-02, 03:48 PM
Y do they feel the need to utterly rape normal continuity?

just compared to the Animated Superman Smallville is just not good as a superman sho

Compared to Buffy and Angle, and X-files, and to a smaller degree supernatural, it is just not a good sci-fi show

Personaly i'm of the opinion. SUperman=adult hood, there was no supperboy, there should be no meeeting of Lex and young Kent....otherwise Lex should definitly KNOW WHO SUPERMAN IS. idiotic on a grand scale.

only reason i might watch it is because James Marsters is a reasonably exceptional character actor...though it would be odd hearing him without his Mockny accent.

anyway...Small VILE sucks

WampaX
2006-06-02, 04:57 PM
BlasPHEMer! ;)

I gave 'em a fair shake. 4.5 seasons is a good while to stick with something like this. I thought they were doing well for a show trying to stretch itself beyond the monster-of-the-week premise it started with into seasons 2 and 3. Then they hit season 4 and I realised that the writers can't work with continuity or an overarching storyline, not without doing the same scene over and over and over again.

I figured, hey, that was their off season for the show, it happens. Then they got to season 5, great opening . . . and it went nowhere from there. By the time they got to episode 100, I really didn't care who died and I realized that I really didn't care about the show anymore. So it faded into the background of "something on TV while working on the computer" and then to forgetting to turn on the TV at all.

Star Trek V (the movie) was crud as well, maybe they can turn around for season 6, but I'll let others take the hits for me and catch it on re-runs if I hear good things.

Steward
2006-06-02, 09:12 PM
anyway...Small VILE sucks

It's not that bad. Yeah, they focus on that Lana girl a bit too much since she's a boring Mary Sue/vehicle for the writer's fantasy, but when you extricate her the plots and characterization can range from passable to pretty good.

Beleriphon
2006-06-02, 09:31 PM
Nope, since it's Jor-El who told him to kill the vessel.

Thats what I mean, they have to kill Lionel to free Jor-El or something equally shocking! *shock*

Besides its the only show that ever made Aquaman look cool!

abigfan
2006-06-05, 09:29 PM
I LOVE this show! I can't wait until next season. How's he going to save everyone? Who's going to save him???? Although I can't wait until he starts to date Lois I feel so bad for Chloe. It would be so ausome for Clark to date Chloe, even if it's just for a little while. And they kissed at the Planet in the season fanalie - I got so excited. It was great. Are they going to try or play it off as a mistake from the heat of the moment when the world was going crazy? I don't know, but I hope they go for it and try their relationship out. As for Lana - she should just go away. I used to like them together, but really, she's such a bitch now. She can't even talk to him? She's to good for the guy who saves her life once a week? Really, that's just a little selfish. He was only trying to save her. Not that she knows that or anything, but still. Anyway, I love this show and really want next season start.

Beleriphon
2006-06-05, 09:35 PM
Although I can't wait until he starts to date Lois I feel so bad for Chloe.

You wont have to feel too bad. I don't ever see that happening within the time frame that Smallville presents. That being said Tom Welling and Erica Durance do have terrific chemistry.

Ulicus
2006-06-05, 09:55 PM
I'm pretty certain Smallville started dropping in quality after season two and was terrible by the time Season Four rolled around.

In fact, I'm positive.

The writing is awful and every episode now is badly scripted filler.

It's a joke, which is sad - because it was such an awesome show in its early days.

Best reviews you'll find of Smallville are here:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/tv.php?topic=reviews/smallville-reviews

By Neal Bailey.

By the later seasons, the reviews are *really* in depth - the guy knows his Superman - and they accurately portray how the show's quality has dropped over the years.

The plotlines have no credibility any more. Pity.

Beleriphon
2006-06-06, 12:31 AM
In terms of Superman continuity or general quality? Because one of the big complaints that I constantly see is continuity with the comics, by the end of the first episode that was blown, so what did we expect exactly?

I still like the show, the same way I like Star Trek: TNG. The writing on that show was not good, but it was still fun. I enjoyed the program for what it was and didn't expect it to be anything more.

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-06, 02:40 AM
Trivia: John Glover, who plays Lionel Luthor, was the voice of The Riddler in BTAS. "If the universe were equitable, I would still have my former job."

James Marsters' accent, as Milton Fine/Brainiac, sometimes alternates between a Southern drawl and a Midwest patois. From time to time he even slips back into his old Spike voice, such as when he first confronted Lex in Central America (and came very close to killing him).

The sheer amount of goofs in each script is laughable. A couple episodes back I'm watching an episode about a guy who can telekinetically control glass, and I'm yelling things at the TV like : "Automotive glass does not break into shards that can pierce skin! What the hell were the writers thinking?" "Most corrective lenses are made out of resilinent plastic these days! This guy shouldn't be able to drive pieces of glass into a guard's brain and kill him!"

Baloo
2006-06-06, 04:12 AM
Also, has it occured to anybody else that the "kill the vessel" idea isn't a reference to Zod, but instead Jor-El.
The word "vessel" can also mean a ship. Milton Fine is supposedly just a construct of the real Brainiac which is inside the ship that landed a year ago (or maybe even being the ship itself).

So, I'm thinking that "destroying the vessel" can refer to that ship, and not to Lex (or Lionel).

Ulicus
2006-06-06, 07:26 AM
In terms of Superman continuity or general quality? Because one of the big complaints that I constantly see is continuity with the comics, by the end of the first episode that was blown, so what did we expect exactly?

I still like the show, the same way I like Star Trek: TNG. The writing on that show was not good, but it was still fun. I enjoyed the program for what it was and didn't expect it to be anything more.

Like I said, I loved the show originally.

My problem lies with the general quality. There was a time when I too enjoyed the program for what it was, but that's not what it is any longer.

I've no problems with them taking liberties here and there with Superman continuity since Smallville *isn't* the comics - the problems arise in the plotting, the scripts and the fact that the show is now pants.

It has its good points but these are now few and far between, there was a time when you only got one or two duds per season, whereas now it seems like duds are the norm.

Season Five *began* really well, and I didn't think it was possible that they could make a worse season than four overall - but they did. Ah well.


Then they hit season 4 and I realised that the writers can't work with continuity or an overarching storyline, not without doing the same scene over and over and over again.

Exactly.

Beleriphon
2006-06-06, 08:39 AM
[quote author=Haggis_McCrablice link=board=comics;num=1149059290;start=15#22 date=06/06/06 at 02:40:01The sheer amount of goofs in each script is laughable. A couple episodes back I'm watching an episode about a guy who can telekinetically control glass, and I'm yelling things at the TV like : "Automotive glass does not break into shards that can pierce skin! What the hell were the writers thinking?" "Most corrective lenses are made out of resilinent plastic these days! This guy shouldn't be able to drive pieces of glass into a guard's brain and kill him!"
* [/quote]

Okay, I'm willing to admit that this was a bad episode. It was silly, but the little girl was so cute! I'll agree there has been a general down turn in the show, although I attribute that to the writers not knowing where to go without pushing Clark into the the Superman role. So thus we have slow moving, and sometimes silly episodes.

CelestialStick
2006-06-08, 11:25 PM
Y do they feel the need to utterly rape normal continuity?

just compared to the Animated Superman Smallville is just not good as a superman sho

Compared to Buffy and Angle, and X-files, and to a smaller degree supernatural, it is just not a good sci-fi show

Personaly i'm of the opinion. SUperman=adult hood, there was no supperboy, there should be no meeeting of Lex and young Kent....otherwise Lex should definitly KNOW WHO SUPERMAN IS. idiotic on a grand scale.

only reason i might watch it is because James Marsters is a reasonably exceptional character actor...though it would be odd hearing him without his Mockny accent.

anyway...Small VILE sucks
Um, because nobody but avid comic book readers cares about "continuity" or "canon."

Ing
2006-06-08, 11:36 PM
good pt. i just see it as OC with superpowers

CelestialStick
2006-06-08, 11:36 PM
I LOVE this show! I can't wait until next season. How's he going to save everyone? Who's going to save him???? Although I can't wait until he starts to date Lois I feel so bad for Chloe. It would be so ausome for Clark to date Chloe, even if it's just for a little while. And they kissed at the Planet in the season fanalie - I got so excited. It was great. Are they going to try or play it off as a mistake from the heat of the moment when the world was going crazy? I don't know, but I hope they go for it and try their relationship out. As for Lana - she should just go away. I used to like them together, but really, she's such a bitch now. She can't even talk to him? She's to good for the guy who saves her life once a week? Really, that's just a little selfish. He was only trying to save her. Not that she knows that or anything, but still. Anyway, I love this show and really want next season start.
Cloe and Clark did date briefly, at the end of one of the seasons (or or two; I forget which). It didn't work out, mostly because Clark ran off to save Lana from the tornado, while leaving Cloe back at the high school. The kiss in this season was Cloe's expression of love for clark, which she did because the world was falling apart and it was her last chance. I don't expect to then to get back together, and if they did it would be a surprising wrinkle. I sure hope Clark and Lana don't get back together though after the way Lana has been treating him. It serves her right that she got stuck with Zod. :D

Tonight I watched the episode where Clark died and then got back his superpowers. It reminded me of how I don't like the way that they've handled the whole "someone must die now" thing. If someone had to die to keep some sort of balance, the death should have been involved in the resurrection of Clark, not some unconnected event that happens episodes later.

I do love the scene where Clark jumps faster than a speeding missile in order to catch the missle and disable it. That was cool. Of course I like about any time he uses his superpowers. I loved the scene from (season two I think) where he had a party at his house and ran around stopping people from spilling drinks and so forth. That was cool too.

Ing
2006-06-08, 11:42 PM
ah yes, because with limitless cosmic power truely the best apploication is in entertaining and event planing. :

its like the telekenitic who uses his powers to move salt shakers just cause he's too impatient to ask someone to pass at the dinner table....or the guy who uses his teleporting powers to move from one side of the room to the other, to answer the door bell.

seems like a waste don't it? granted i should talk, had i his powers i would be tossing empty mail trucks into the air just to see all the letters go flying when they hit the ground

CelestialStick
2006-06-08, 11:47 PM
ah yes, because with limitless cosmic power truely the best apploication is in entertaining and event planing. :

its like the telekenitic who uses his powers to move salt shakers just cause he's too impatient to ask someone to pass at the dinner table....or the guy who uses his teleporting powers to move from one side of the room to the other, to answer the door bell.

seems like a waste don't it? granted i should talk, had i his powers i would be tossing empty mail trucks into the air just to see all the letters go flying when they hit the ground
Don't worry--they intended the scene with Clark using his superpowers at the party only for the portion of the viewing audience gifted with a sense of humor. :D

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-09, 04:06 AM
had i his powers i would be tossing empty mail trucks into the air just to see all the letters go flying when they hit the ground
Aye, if I had his powers I'd spend all day in front of a pile of coal crushing the lumps into diamonds with my bare hand. I'd be the richest man in town. Maybe that's how the Kents pay for all those hospital bills and new trucks they seem to have each week? "Clark, here's a five-pound sack of briquettes. Do your thing, son. Your mom and I are lookin' to take a second honeymoon. We're thinkin' Maui."

Holy_Knight
2006-06-09, 05:28 AM
Cloe and Clark did date briefly, at the end of one of the seasons (or or two; I forget which). *It didn't work out
...because Clark is a fool. *I would so date Chloe (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*). *Now, I'll admit, Lana was a nice girl too, at first, so I don't really blame him for being attracted to her. *I feel bad for Chloe though, especially since she's always been there for him and always accepted him for who he is.


The kiss in this season was Cloe's expression of love for clark, which she did because the world was falling apart and it was her last chance.
*sigh* I wonder who would kiss me if the world were falling apart... *(stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)



I sure hope Clark and Lana don't get back together though after the way Lana has been treating him. It serves her right that she got stuck with Zod. :D
I have mixed feelings about this, actually. *Part of me agrees with you, since Lana really didn't treat him very well (although admittedly, he could have been more tactful at times even with his secret-keeping). *What I definitely do want, though, is for Lana to want to get back together with him. *If there's any justice, she'll realize that Clark really was a good guy all along, and that he lied about not loving her anymore, and that he did everything to protect her, etc. etc. *Then hopefully she'd want him back, whether or not they actually did get back together again.



Tonight I watched the episode where Clark died and then got back his superpowers. *It reminded me of how I don't like the way that they've handled the whole "someone must die now" thing. *If someone had to die to keep some sort of balance, the death should have been involved in the resurrection of Clark, not some unconnected event that happens episodes later.
I watched it too! *I'd never seen it before. *Also, this has to do with the other part of my mixed feelings about Clark and Lana. *There's a part of me that really does want them to get back together, after everything gets worked out. *Seeing this episode really reinforced that, because of seeing their reactions when she sees him again after thinking he was dead. *That was really beautiful, which makes it even more of a shame that she all but depsises him now. *(poor Clark... *:'( ) *The beginning of this episode was also pretty funny, when the two of them got caught by his parents that morning... * :D


Also, a few days ago I saw another one that I'd never seen before, which was when Lana, Lois, and Chloe all got possessed by 16th century witches. *What a fun episode! *My favorite part was when Clark was trying to explain the party to his parents after his father discovered a bra in the barn:

Jonathan: *Clark--is there something you'd like to tell your mother and me... about this? *holds up bra*

Clark: *I can explain!

Martha: *Oh my!

Clark: *It was magic.

Martha: *I'm sure it was!

Clark: *No! *I mean it was really magic!

Martha's line there cracks me up... *:D

CelestialStick
2006-06-09, 12:47 PM
Aye, if I had his powers I'd spend all day in front of a pile of coal crushing the lumps into diamonds with my bare hand. I'd be the richest man in town. Maybe that's how the Kents pay for all those hospital bills and new trucks they seem to have each week? "Clark, here's a five-pound sack of briquettes. Do your thing, son. Your mom and I are lookin' to take a second honeymoon. We're thinkin' Maui."
The trick is to not make too many diamonds at the same time. You don't want to make enough to reduce the world market price for diamonds. :D




...because Clark is a fool. I would so date Chloe (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*). Now, I'll admit, Lana was a nice girl too, at first, so I don't really blame him for being attracted to her. I feel bad for Chloe though, especially since she's always been there for him and always accepted him for who he is.

It's a matter of wisdom, as you first indicated, and not stupidity. Love is an emotion, and therefore irrational by nature--not to mention subject to manipulation by the script writers. ;)


*sigh* I wonder who would kiss me if the world were falling apart... (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)

Yeah, I'm in the same boat, brother. :( Note that Clark did kiss her back. :)


I have mixed feelings about this, actually. Part of me agrees with you, since Lana really didn't treat him very well (although admittedly, he could have been more tactful at times even with his secret-keeping). What I definitely do want, though, is for Lana to want to get back together with him. If there's any justice, she'll realize that Clark really was a good guy all along, and that he lied about not loving her anymore, and that he did everything to protect her, etc. etc. Then hopefully she'd want him back, whether or not they actually did get back together again.

I know what you mean. Have you seen the one where Clark proposes marriage to Lana after showing her the Fortress of Solitude and his superpowers? If you see that one you'll probably want them to get back together. The whole time I was watching it I was thinking, "This is too cool to stand. It will turn out to be a dream or a fantasy, or something else will negate it."


I watched it too! I'd never seen it before. Also, this has to do with the other part of my mixed feelings about Clark and Lana. There's a part of me that really does want them to get back together, after everything gets worked out. Seeing this episode really reinforced that, because of seeing their reactions when she sees him again after thinking he was dead. That was really beautiful, which makes it even more of a shame that she all but depsises him now. (poor Clark... :'( ) The beginning of this episode was also pretty funny, when the two of them got caught by his parents that morning... :D

I missed the first fifteen minutes. Whom did they catch? Clark and Lana? Did they have sex at the start of the episode? I know that in the previous episode they had started to have sex when the three freaks of the week showed up and interrupted them.



Also, a few days ago I saw another one that I'd never seen before, which was when Lana, Lois, and Chloe all got possessed by 16th century witches. What a fun episode! My favorite part was when Clark was trying to explain the party to his parents after his father discovered a bra in the barn:

Jonathan: Clark--is there something you'd like to tell your mother and me... about this? *holds up bra*

Clark: I can explain!

Martha: Oh my!

Clark: It was magic.

Martha: I'm sure it was!

Clark: No! I mean it was really magic!

Martha's line there cracks me up... :D


LOL. That IS a good line. That was a good episode, though I don't like the fact that magic can remove his powers. Originally Clark was supposed to be superdense, but I guess they've sort of gotten away from that. (Jor-El mentioned super-density during the opening of Superman: The Motion Picture.)

I find Allison cute, but at 23 pretty much far too young for me. In Erica Durance's case, however, I'd be willing to make an exception. She's a whole 4 years older, and more well-endowed. ;) Married, alas, but then Allison's engaged, or at least got engaged in 2003 to her boyfriend. I don't see anything more recent about her martial status than that.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-12, 11:59 PM
It's a matter of wisdom, as you first indicated, and not stupidity.
Oh I agree, the "stupid Clark" thing is more of a jealous aspersion, really. :)



Yeah, I'm in the same boat, brother. :( *Note that Clark did kiss her back. :)
Would that be the "between relationships" boat, the "searching for the right woman" boat, or the "women are evil, I'm staying a bachelor forever" boat? I tend to vacillate between the three, with a lot of favoritism shown towards the last one. ;)



I know what you mean. *Have you seen the one where Clark proposes marriage to Lana after showing her the Fortress of Solitude and his superpowers? *If you see that one you'll probably want them to get back together. *The whole time I was watching it I was thinking, "This is too cool to stand. *It will turn out to be a dream or a fantasy, or something else will negate it."
Yeah, in fact I think that was the episode that got me started on the whole "why do I watch this show?" thing, since it was SO depressing... I mean first he gets everything he ever wanted only to have Lana die, then in saving her life he loses her as a girlfriend AND his father dies. I seriously wanted to cry.



I missed the first fifteen minutes. *Whom did they catch? Clark and Lana? Did they have sex at the start of the episode? *I know that in the previous episode they had started to have sex when the three freaks of the week showed up and interrupted them.
Yeah. the episode began with them waking up in bed together, then freaking out a bit when they realized they'd fallen asleep. They think they can sneak Lana out before Clark's parents wake up, but they're already in the kitchen! It was pretty funny... Chloe sees Lana leaving too, and is like: "Why was Lana here so early and rushing off-- ooooooh." :D



LOL. That IS a good line. That was a good episode, though I don't like the fact that magic can remove his powers.
I agree--I've mentioned before that I hate the "powers get transferred" thing, and this is sort of similar. I don't mind if his powers get suppressed or something, but flat out removing them is a little hokey. It was funny to see Clark at the end with a shotgun, though.



I find Allison cute, but at 23 pretty much far too young for me. In Erica Durance's case, however, I'd be willing to make an exception. *She's a whole 4 years older, and more well-endowed. ;) *Married, alas, but then Allison's engaged, or at least got engaged in 2003 to her boyfriend. I don't see anything more recent about her martial status than that.
See, I don't know how I feel about the actresses, since I've never met them. I was just saying that I find the character of Chloe attractive. Sort of like how I'd totally date Kaylee from Firefly, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily date Jewel Staite. (My sister thinks I'm crazy for saying that sort of thing, but I think it makes perfect sense.) :)

By the way, did you watch the one that was on last night (Sunday)? If so, do you (or anyone) know what the music was that played during Lex's hallucination of ordering and watching all the missiles to blow up everything? I thought it was really good. Also, what is the theme that plays during the ending credits of Smallville? I really like it, but I haven't been able to find out what it's called anywhere.

Kontonshin
2006-06-13, 11:36 PM
Love it. Love. It.

10 things I *specifically* love about it:

1. The utterly f***ed-up relationship between Lionel and Lex. The two actors work amazingly well together, and the twisted family dynamic is one of the main reasons I watch.

2. Clark's family. Casting John Schneider as Jonathan Kent was a stroke of genius. And I think it's cool that Annette O'Toole played Lana in the original _Superman_ films.

3. Wanting to smack Clark upside the head every time he whines about Lana to Chloe. Chloe's smarter, more interesting, and (IMO) better-looking than Lana, and the fact that he's completely oblivious makes me happily crazy.

4. Guest appearances by other DC universe superheroes / villains.

5. More ironic / self-referential nods to the original films and DC canon than you can shake a really big stick at.

6. Tom Welling = serious eye candy. ;D

7. Probably the best-written dramatic series out there since _Buffy_ finished up. (although to be fair I've been told that I *really* need to watch more _Battlestar Galactica_ before I make that call)

8. The equally f***ed-up, but in a different way, dynamic between Clark and Lex, which keeps the slash fic community busy.

9. The fact that it's a really interesting take on nature vs. nurture, free will vs. predestination, and a whole pile of other fairly heavy philosophical issues cunningly disgused as teen entertainment.

10. Er... okay. That's only nine. Still a damn fine show.

OffSide7
2006-06-14, 12:37 AM
I watch it.

I don't like it.

To be fair, I've only seen a handful of episodes here and there, very few in a row.

I find most of the plots hackneyed and the drama with romance drawn out and uninteresting, especially since we all know with whom Clark ends up.

I do watch it because I love Superman. I think Lex Luthor is fanTAStic in that show. I find Lana utterly 2D and so perfect and sweet it's pathetic. Chloe's a little better, but frankly, I find her annoying. I like Clark... and the actor who plays him is inhumanly pretty.

I'm currently in the Lana with a tattoo on her back storyline (I'm in Australia) and I've seen the last episode of this storyline and I thought it was stupid, but for some reason I can't help watching what leads up to that.

I like some of the cameos, like Flash, though they screwed up Supergirl royally. I guess I'm just a comic fan, not a teen drama fan.

Special effects aren't bad for a tv show.

Those actors are like twice the age of their characters. >_<;;

And I know it's stupid, and I usually don't care for slash, but this version of Lex and this version of Clark would be the best couple ever. They're perfect for eachother. They compliment eachother so well, especially with Clark's naivite and honesty, and Lex's cunning and worldly-knowledge and need for a male figure to approve of him. And they're both so pretty!

Holy_Knight
2006-06-15, 01:56 AM
1. The utterly f***ed-up relationship between Lionel and Lex. The two actors work amazingly well together, and the twisted family dynamic is one of the main reasons I watch.
I agree--they're both great actors, and they work really well together. I love their constant machinations against each other.



2. Clark's family. Casting John Schneider as Jonathan Kent was a stroke of genius. And I think it's cool that Annette O'Toole played Lana in the original _Superman_ films.
I always liked them as his parents too.



3. Wanting to smack Clark upside the head every time he whines about Lana to Chloe. Chloe's smarter, more interesting, and (IMO) better-looking than Lana, and the fact that he's completely oblivious makes me happily crazy.
No arguments here. I've said it before... I'd date Chloe. (Stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*) Also, yesterday I saw one where Chloe wanted Clark to ask her to the prom, she had even already bought her dress, Clark knew about it, Chloe knew that Clark knew about it, and she kept dropping hints--but Clark wouldn't even talk about it! I felt really sorry for Chloe... :'(



9. The fact that it's a really interesting take on nature vs. nurture, free will vs. predestination, and a whole pile of other fairly heavy philosophical issues cunningly disgused as teen entertainment.
I probably wouldn't describe it in quite that way, but I know what you mean. There's a part of me that wants Clark and Lex to become friends again, and Clark and Lana to end up together. But unless they completely break from normal continuity, which is unlikely, neither of those will happen. It makes you wonder what you might do differently in your own life if you knew now what future was in store for you... and what people might say if they could watch your life, knowing already where you and your friends were going to end up.

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 04:37 PM
Oh I agree, the "stupid Clark" thing is more of a jealous aspersion, really. :)

Yeah, that makes sense. :)


Would that be the "between relationships" boat, the "searching for the right woman" boat, or the "women are evil, I'm staying a bachelor forever" boat? I tend to vacillate between the three, with a lot of favoritism shown towards the last one. ;)

Well I just meant the "nobody to kiss me if the world were ending" boat. I've pretty much given up on the notion that there's a right woman for me. I don't think that women are any more evil than men, but I do suspect I'll end up staying a bachelor forever.


Yeah, in fact I think that was the episode that got me started on the whole "why do I watch this show?" thing, since it was SO depressing... I mean first he gets everything he ever wanted only to have Lana die, then in saving her life he loses her as a girlfriend AND his father dies. I seriously wanted to cry.

I've always believed that it could never work out between Clark and Lana, because we know that Clark will end up with Lois anyway.


Yeah. the episode began with them waking up in bed together, then freaking out a bit when they realized they'd fallen asleep. They think they can sneak Lana out before Clark's parents wake up, but they're already in the kitchen! It was pretty funny... Chloe sees Lana leaving too, and is like: "Why was Lana here so early and rushing off-- ooooooh." :D

Rats. I wish I'd seen that. I mean, I saw it when it was new, but my memory hasn't been that great lately, so I'd like to see it again.


I agree--I've mentioned before that I hate the "powers get transferred" thing, and this is sort of similar. I don't mind if his powers get suppressed or something, but flat out removing them is a little hokey. It was funny to see Clark at the end with a shotgun, though.

Yeah, I wonder what he was going to do with that. Alas there is some tradition of transfering powers in the Superman comics, so it's not surprising that we have to suffer through it in the series too. At least we haven't had to suffer through the "Superman is weak, stupid and ineffectual" nonsense that the current comics supposedly portray.

That reminds me, actually, of some thing I've liked about Superman in the tv shows. On at least a couple of occasions, Clark has won a fight without superpowers. In a Smallville episode from this past season, for instance, Clark has no powers but was able to knock out the electricity freak of the weak after knocking out the power in the house. In an episode of Lois and Clark, likewise, after Trask used kryptonite to remove Clark's powers, Clark still beat the tar out of Trask in the pond where they had the fight.


See, I don't know how I feel about the actresses, since I've never met them. I was just saying that I find the character of Chloe attractive. Sort of like how I'd totally date Kaylee from Firefly, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily date Jewel Staite. (My sister thinks I'm crazy for saying that sort of thing, but I think it makes perfect sense.) :)

Hmm. Well I guess there's no more harm in fantasizing being with the fictional character than in fantasizing about being with the actress, since neither one is going to happen.

So let's see. Well Cloe is supposed to be about 18 years old, maybe 19 by the end of the most recent season. That makes me 27 years older than she is. I'm guessing that I'm as old or even older than the actor who played her father occasionally in the series. (Anyone know his name?) That seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Now if I were, say, 25 years younger, I'd have to say that in reality I'd almost certainly go for Cloe over either Lana or Lois. Both Lana and Lois are standoffish in their way; Lana hide behind the shy good girl image and Lois behind the cranky humor.


By the way, did you watch the one that was on last night (Sunday)? If so, do you (or anyone) know what the music was that played during Lex's hallucination of ordering and watching all the missiles to blow up everything? I thought it was really good. Also, what is the theme that plays during the ending credits of Smallville? I really like it, but I haven't been able to find out what it's called anywhere.

I didn't see that on Sunday. I didn't even know that WB was running Smallville episodes on Sunday nights (the regular slot for Smallville comes on Thursday nights).



Love it. Love. It.

10 things I *specifically* love about it:

1. The utterly f***ed-up relationship between Lionel and Lex. The two actors work amazingly well together, and the twisted family dynamic is one of the main reasons I watch.


They're creep and they're kookie, mysterious and spooky, they're altogether ookie, the Luthor family! :D

It is a fascinating relationship. And it has slowly switched around from Lex being evil only a little of the time and Lionel being evil most of the time to the opposite. Still you never know who's doing what to whom or why.

[quote author=Kontonshin link=board=comics;num=1149059290;start=30#35 date=06/13/06 at 23:36:46]2. Clark's family. Casting John Schneider as Jonathan Kent was a stroke of genius. And I think it's cool that Annette O'Toole played Lana in the original _Superman_ films.

Yes, I just saw an interview with Annette where she had to tell the people casting for Smallville that she had already played Lana. In their interview they talked about how she knew so much more about Superman than they did that they had to cast her. I must say that I'm really bummed about the death of Jonathan Kent. So I guess the coming season will just not have John Schneider in the credits?


3. Wanting to smack Clark upside the head every time he whines about Lana to Chloe. Chloe's smarter, more interesting, and (IMO) better-looking than Lana, and the fact that he's completely oblivious makes me happily crazy.

Actually Lana is better looking; she is painfully pretty. I don't know why you and Holy Knight keep saying that he's oblvious; he hasn't been oblivious for seasons now. He is only too painfully aware that Chole has feelings for him that he doesn't return.

I had an experience a couple of decades ago when a secretary at work had a crush on me. We had almost nothing in common and I didn't share her feelings, yet the other secretaries treated me like there was something wrong with me for not sharing her feelings, like I was somehow obligated to share them. It's plain rubbish. If the situation had been reversed they would have considered me pathetic for mooning after a woman who didn't have feelings for me.

Edit: At one point the other secretaries put a letter on my desk which purported to come from Playgirl as though it were rejecting a photo of me submitted to Playgirl. It was very insulting and I just laughed and laughed. Later one of them admitted that they'd done it to "get me back" for not liking the secretary who liked me. Then they told her to lie to me and pretend that she had met a nice guy at church so that I would get jealous. When she told me about him I was very happy as it seemed to take the pressure off of me. Only later when she got upset that I was so happy for her that she had a boyfriend did she admit that it was a lie designed to make me jealous.

When I got fired from the job she apparently cried, and told me about it later. So I finally broke down and asked her out. It was a BIG mistake. I enjoyed the companionship but never had any romantic feelings for her. Going out with her actually made things much much worse, as she got her hopes up that we would become a couple. One night we went on a double-date with her best friend and the best friend's fiance, and it was a disaster as she wanted me to be affectionate toward her like the fiance was toward the friend. That was the last time we went out. I learned the hard way that when you don't feel romantically inclined toward someone that going out with her just makes things much worse. That's pretty much what happened to Clark with Chloe too, but as with those secretaries, for some reason you two can't see it.


4. Guest appearances by other DC universe superheroes / villains.

During the first season I read in TV Guide that they planned to introduce Bruce Wayne as a business associate of Lex's, but they never did.


5. More ironic / self-referential nods to the original films and DC canon than you can shake a really big stick at.

6. Tom Welling = serious eye candy. ;D

7. Probably the best-written dramatic series out there since _Buffy_ finished up. (although to be fair I've been told that I *really* need to watch more _Battlestar Galactica_ before I make that call)

The new Battlestar is exceptionally well done; I often find myself standing up watching because I'm too gripped to remember to sit down. I have to warn you though, that the season finale had all sorts of problems with it.


8. The equally f***ed-up, but in a different way, dynamic between Clark and Lex, which keeps the slash fic community busy.

The poster after you also mentioned something about slash. I'm almost afraid to ask, what is that?


9. The fact that it's a really interesting take on nature vs. nurture, free will vs. predestination, and a whole pile of other fairly heavy philosophical issues cunningly disgused as teen entertainment.

10. Er... okay. That's only nine. Still a damn fine show.
Yup, damned fine. I'm looking forward to tonight's show. Smallville is one of the few shows that I watch in reruns.

Nekkira
2006-06-15, 07:14 PM
I love the Smallville episodes that center more around Lex and Lionel.

The whole Clark & Lana thing is getting annoying and ridiculous.

And when they do stupid things like Chloe's computer super powers, and other things that make no sense, I just cringe.

So, I am still watching it, but I've relegated it to 'cutesy fantasy fluff' rather than anything I'm seriously into watching.

Oh and I have really enjoyed Battlestar Galactica, but that last episode was a dud.

Doctor Who was my fav. series this season.

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 07:36 PM
I love the Smallville episodes that center more around Lex and Lionel.

The whole Clark & Lana thing is getting annoying and ridiculous.

And when they do stupid things like Chloe's computer super powers, and other things that make no sense, I just cringe.

So, I am still watching it, but I've relegated it to 'cutesy fantasy fluff' rather than anything I'm seriously into watching.

Oh and I have really enjoyed Battlestar Galactica, but that last episode was a dud.

Doctor Who was my fav. series this season.


I liked the season of Dr. Who that just finished showing in the US. It was surprisingly serious and dark, with some nice hints of romance. When I first saw Eccleston as The Doctor he reminded me of a skin-head and I wasn't sure I could accept his as The Doctor. After the whole season, however, I found myself quite sad at the prospect of his regeneration.

The one thing I didn't like was the fact that girl had the Tardis core in her and didn't die, but somehow The Doctor had to die when he took it from her by kissing her. That made no sense.

Caillach
2006-06-15, 08:28 PM
Superman Gods forgive me but the main reason I like smallville is because that guy who plays Clark is really hot. *is shamed* :-[ Yes, yes I know. Bad me. Bad bad me.


but I also like it because their Lex is pretty cool, and superhero's are neat so mabye I won't burn in comic hell.

(was seriously ticked when they killed Mr.Kent though.)

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 08:32 PM
Superman Gods forgive me but the main reason I like smallville is because that guy who plays Clark is really hot. *is shamed* :-[ Yes, yes I know. Bad me. Bad bad me.


but I also like it because their Lex is pretty cool, and superhero's are neat so mabye I won't burn in comic hell.

(was seriously ticked when they killed Mr.Kent though.)
As an old, old Superman fan and starter of this tread, I offically give you permission to like Smallville because you find Tom Welling attractive. :D

Edit: I am watching tonight's Smallville and it's the one where a sorority turns Lana into a vampire. So far the whole vampire storylie is pretty stupid. A group of vampires would chose their victims more carefully than the pizzaboy, since there's much too great a trail leading from his disapearance to them. Just because nobody would suspect a vampire doesn't mean they couldn't track him to their sorority house and suspect them of foul play.

I've seen a few references on the internet (incuding a Wikipedia article) referring to the Dr. Fine robot in Smallville as Brainiac. I have not seen anything in the show to indicate that Fine is supposed to be the same character as Brainiac, nor do I recall ever hearing anything about Brainiac that made him loyal to Zod. The Brainiac I've seen has always been just out for himself. How did Fine get to be Brainiac?

Steward
2006-06-15, 08:59 PM
The Brainiac I've seen has always been just out for himself.

It could be a different guy with the same name. Supervillains do that from time to time, sharing identities to confuse their enemies.

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 10:11 PM
It could be a different guy with the same name. Supervillains do that from time to time, sharing identities to confuse their enemies.
But there's no mention of a Braniac in Smallville at all.

From Wikipedia:

DC Universe, Brainiac's history was dramatically altered. Vril Dox was now a radical Coluan scientist who, having attempted to overthrow the Computer Tyrants, was sentenced to death. In his last moments, his consciousness was attracted to Earthly sideshow mentalist Milton Fine, who worked under the alias "Brainiac". Needing cranial fluid to maintain his possession of Fine, Dox went on a murder spree. He discovered Fine had genuine psychic powers, which he frequently used on Superman. This version of Brainiac made his first appearance in Adventures of Superman #438 (March 1988).

From later in the same article

In the fifth season of Smallville, Brainiac is a semi-regular character, played by James Marsters. He appeared in episodes 501 ("Arrival"), 504 ("Aqua"), 505 ("Thirst"), 507 ("Splinter"), 508 ("Solitude"), 516 ("Hypnotic"), 521 ("Oracle"), and 522 ("Vessel"). In all of these episodes, the character is only referred to as Milton Fine. The name Brainiac is not used on screen, though Jor-El (in the episode "Vessel") does refer to Fine as a "Brain InterActive Construct," or BrainIAC. The name was widely utilized in press releases, news and interviews.

So I guess in some ways even though he's not the Brainiac I know, Milton Fine is a Braniac of sorts.

I must say though that Fine resembles the "black oil" alien of X-Files fame and Terminator 2 more than any Braniac. In fact Smallville has combined a good deal of popular recent UFO lore into its Kryptonian plots. The Kyrptonian ships leave Kryptonian symbols in crops reminiscent of crop circles, and beams Lex aboard in the flash of light customary in X-Files and more recently the 4400.

Kontonshin
2006-06-16, 01:27 AM
Actually Lana is better looking; she is painfully pretty. *I don't know why you and Holy Knight keep saying that he's oblvious; he hasn't been oblivious for seasons now. He is only too painfully aware that Chole has feelings for him that he doesn't return.

It's not so much that he's oblivious to her feelings as the fact that apart from the physical characteristics, Chloe's a lot more interesting. I can certainly relate to your story about your co-worker though.


During the first season I read in TV Guide that they planned to introduce Bruce Wayne as a business associate of Lex's, but they never did.

That's be sweet! It's hard to cast for Bruce Wayne though. That's why Christian Bale was so amazing - he can play the charming socialite exterior and immediately switch around to Batman, who's frankly a bit of a psycho.


The poster after you also mentioned something about slash. I'm almost afraid to ask, what is that?

Oh man... um, basically it's homoerotic fanfiction based on an implicit something-more-than-friends dynamic between two characters. Kirk / Spock was sort of the ur-slash pairing. Written and read, for reasons I can't fathom but probably keep busloads of semiotics PhD. candidates up at night, almost exclusively by women.

Alcino
2006-06-16, 02:07 AM
Heh. Christian Bale had prior experience in playing guys with a charming socialite exterior but who are frankly psychotic.

See American Psycho. You'll love it. Thank me in advance.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-16, 02:43 AM
Well I *just meant the "nobody to kiss me if the world were ending" boat. *I've pretty much given up on the notion that there's a right woman for me. I don't think that women are any more evil than men, but I do suspect I'll end up staying a bachelor forever.

Well, I'm not sure that they're any more evil than men are... but they are evil, nonetheless. *It's depressing...



Yeah, I wonder what he was going to do with that. *
The only plausible thing would have been to try to blow a hole in the spellbook--but he didn't get a chance to try it, and it would have been really hard to do that without risking accidentally killing Lana, Chloe, or Lois at the same time.



That reminds me, actually, of some thing I've liked about Superman in the tv shows. *On at least a couple of occasions, Clark has won a fight without superpowers. In a Smallville episode from this past season, for instance, Clark has no powers but was able to knock out the electricity freak of the weak after knocking out the power in the house. *In an episode of Lois and Clark, likewise, after Trask used kryptonite to remove Clark's powers, Clark still beat the tar out of Trask in the pond where they had the fight.
I haven't seen either of those, but I agree with you in liking them. *I mean, he shouldn't be completely helpless without his powers; he's still a hero. *I don't know if you ever saw Beast Wars Transformers, but there's a great episode where Dinobot is on the verge of death and disarmed, and one of the bad guys taunts him:

Bad Guy: **sneering* What's a warrior without weapons?
Dinobot: A warrior STILL!! **kicks the crap out of the bad guy while running on sheer willpower*

--I also always remembered that scene because I was thinking that exact response before Dinobot said it, which was cool. * :)



Hmm. Well I guess there's no more harm in fantasizing being with the fictional character than in fantasizing about being with the actress, since neither one is going to happen.
I just meant that I actually know quite a bit about the characters, but I don't know enough about the actresses to make a judgement.



I'd have to say that in reality I'd almost certainly go for Cloe over either Lana or Lois. *Both Lana and Lois are standoffish in their way; Lana hide behind the shy good girl image and Lois behind the cranky humor.
Yep, It's Chloe all the way. *(Stupid Clark, *mumble* grumble*)



I didn't see that on Sunday. I didn't even know that WB was running Smallville episodes on Sunday nights (the regular slot for Smallville comes on Thursday nights).
Yeah, they've been showing reruns on the weekends, too. *I only saw the last half of the one I was talking about, but as near as I could tell, there was some kind of virus that got into people, making them very ill and hallucinating. *When Lex hallucinated, he saw a vision of himself as president ordering missiles to fire, and then we see him walking along the charred land in the aftermath. *I really liked the music in that scene, as well as the music that plays in the ending credits of some of the more recent seasons.



I must say that I'm really bummed about the death of Jonathan Kent. *So I guess the coming season will just not have John Schneider in the credits? *
I'm bummed about that too! *I really liked his character. *Maybe he'll still be in the credits, and make more ghost/flashback/impostor appearances like in the end of this last season.



Actually Lana is better looking; she is painfully pretty.
I have to disagree there--sure, Lana is very pretty, and so is Lois, but I think Chloe is the prettiest.



I don't know why you and Holy Knight keep saying that he's oblvious; he hasn't been oblivious for seasons now. He is only too painfully aware that Chole has feelings for him that he doesn't return.
Actually, I never said he was oblivious to her feelings, I agree that he obviously knows about them. *If there's anything he's oblivious to though, it's that she's a much better catch than Lana is (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*).



I had an experience a couple of decades ago when a secretary at work had a crush on me. *We had almost nothing in common and I didn't share her feelings, yet the other secretaries treated me like there was something wrong with me for not sharing her feelings, like I was somehow obligated to share them. *It's plain rubbish. *If the situation had been reversed they would have considered me pathetic for mooning after a woman who didn't have feelings for me.

Edit: At one point the other secretaries put a letter on my desk which purported to come from Playgirl as though it were rejecting a photo of me submitted to Playgirl. *It was very insulting and I just laughed and laughed. Later one of them admitted that they'd done it to "get me back" for not liking the secretary who liked me. *Then they told her to lie to me and pretend that she had met a nice guy at church so that I would get jealous. *When she told me about him I was very happy as it seemed to take the pressure off of me. Only later when she got upset that I was so happy for her that she had a boyfriend did she admit that it was a lie designed to make me jealous.

When I got fired from the job she apparently cried, and told me about it later. *So I finally broke down and asked her out. It was a BIG mistake. *I enjoyed the companionship but never had any romantic feelings for her. *Going out with her actually made things much much worse, as she got her hopes up that we would become a couple. *One night we went on a double-date with her best friend and the best friend's fiance, and it was a disaster as she wanted me to be affectionate toward her like the fiance was toward the friend. *That was the last time we went out. I learned the hard way that when you don't feel romantically inclined toward someone that going out with her just makes things much worse. *That's pretty much what happened to Clark with Chloe too, but as with those secretaries, for some reason you two can't see it.
Stupid Celestial Stick, *mumble* *grumble*. * :D


--Nah, I'm just teasing you, but that comment was pretty much obligatory at this point. *:D

To be more serious, sorry you had to go through that. *It sounds like the other secretaries weren't very fair or kind to you. *(And you're right, if the genders had been reversed, you would have been called pathetic, a stalker, or worse.)

I don't necessarily agree that it's the same way with Clark and Chloe, though, since Chloe is such a good person and Clark is already really close to her, which doesn't sound like it was the case at all with you and Miss Secretary. *Plus, Chloe has never pressured Clark, and has been accepting of his relationship with Lana. *She's such a great gal... *(stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)

About the Playgirl thing--who did the other secretaries think they were going to fool by doing that? *Weren't they all in on it? *And it doesn't seem likely that you yourself would have fallen for the trick...

A friend of mine once told me that she thought I should pose for Playgirl... it was kind of strange though, because I don't think she was flirting with me or making fun of me, and even though she must have known that given the kind of person I am, I would have never considered doing it, she seemed completely serious about it. To this day I'm not sure exactly why she said that... *



During the first season I read in TV Guide that they planned to introduce Bruce Wayne as a business associate of Lex's, but they never did.
Wasn't there an episode where he did come through Smallville? *I thought a friend of mine said that there was.



Yup, damned fine. I'm looking forward to tonight's show. *Smallville is one of the few shows that I watch in reruns.
Me too, although I'm also playing catchup since I only recently startedreally watching it. *I just watched the one with the pyromaniac coach from the first season--did you notice the Tidus/Yuna moment at the end? *With the screaming?



As an old, old Superman fan and starter of this tread, I offically give you permission to like Smallville because you find Tom Welling attractive. :D
Wait a minute--you didn't start this thread, I did! *

So, then:


Superman Gods forgive me but the main reason I like smallville is because that guy who plays Clark is really hot. *is shamed* *:-[ Yes, yes I know. Bad me. Bad bad me.


but I also like it because their Lex is pretty cool, and superhero's are neat so mabye I won't burn in comic hell.

(was seriously ticked when they killed Mr.Kent though.)

Because you have come to appreciate other, legitimate aspects of the show, I--the true thread starter--declare you, Caillach, to be forgiven. *:D

(Besides, the severity of your crime is pretty mitigated by the vast amount of things that get watched by guys just because of the women in it... *I think some entire careers have been made solely because a woman of dubious talent happens to be "hot".)




It's not so much that he's oblivious to her feelings as the fact that apart from the physical characteristics, Chloe's a lot more interesting. *
Even including the physical ones! *(stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)



That's be sweet! *It's hard to cast for Bruce Wayne though. *That's why Christian Bale was so amazing - he can play the charming socialite exterior and immediately switch around to Batman, who's frankly a bit of a psycho.
Amen to that. *Best. Movie. Ever. *:D



Oh man... um, basically it's homoerotic fanfiction based on an implicit something-more-than-friends dynamic between two characters. *Kirk / Spock was sort of the ur-slash pairing. *Written and read, for reasons I can't fathom but probably keep busloads of semiotics PhD. candidates up at night, almost exclusively by women.
Clark and Lex... like that? *Just... no. * :(

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-16, 02:50 AM
I am watching tonight's Smallville and it's the one where a sorority turns Lana into a vampire. This episode is perhaps the season's weakest, and rife with mistakes. First of all, I can buy that a mutant bat bite might grant its victim a lust for blood plasma and an aversion to bright light, but immortality? Isn't that a bit of a stretch?

Secondly, vampire bats aren't indiginous to Kansas...and despite what Stephen King says, they seldom spread rabies. *;)

Thirdly, Chloe's vampire research seems overly simplistic. Many vampire species don't even drink blood. Many are soul-drinkers, and one especially unpleasant type subsists on feces.Vampires are also notoriously obsessively-compulsive and have a thing about knots and counting spilled grain or rice on a floor (even if the sun is moments from rising, they must count each bit). This wasn't even mentioned.

Although I admit it was funny to hear Buffy alumnus James Marsters tell Clark there's no such thing as vampires, and the X-Files-esque use of Courier fonts to tell the time and date of events in Chloe's narrative. I do wonder where Brainiac borrowed the handle "Milton Fine" from, however--likely he stole it, as well as the whole life story he foists on Lex. Marsters seems to play the part as an alien who isn't sure where his character is supposed to be from--he switches his accent from a Midwest twang to a Southern drawl frequently, and at a couple points his voice deepens into either his old "Spike" character, or a dry David Duchovny delivery (most noticable as he shoots a friendly game of pool with Lex). The actor is actually a California native.

Kontonshin
2006-06-16, 02:50 PM
(Besides, the severity of your crime is pretty mitigated by the vast amount of things that get watched by guys just because of the women in it... *I think some entire careers have been made solely because a woman of dubious talent happens to be "hot".)

Or no talent whatsoever. Look at Paris Hilton. If you can stand it.


Even including the physical ones! *(stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)

Well, yeah. But Lana would probably be considered more *conventionally* attractive.


Clark and Lex... like that? *Just... no. * :(

Hey, I don't write the stuff. To be honest, I find the subculture oddly fascinating. And in the first couple of seasons, there *did* appear to be a certain amount of subtext.

J.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-16, 03:01 PM
It's not so much that he's oblivious to her feelings as the fact that apart from the physical characteristics, Chloe's a lot more interesting.
Ermmm, I find Chloe alot better looking myself. Lana has always put me off from the beginning for some reason.


And why did you have to go and bring up the vampire episode... that one was so dumb it made my teeth hurt. I especially loathe the vampires ability to, y'know, stick little pieces of calcium into a guy who can't be hurt with bullets.

And sure, the disease also lets you survive a broken neck. For pete's sake, see if you can bio-engineer that sucker and make it less dangerous so we can ALL be super vampires ::)

Beleriphon
2006-06-16, 04:51 PM
When Lex hallucinated, he saw a vision of himself as president ordering missiles to fire, and then we see him walking along the charred land in the aftermath. I really liked the music in that scene, as well as the music that plays in the ending credits of some of the more recent seasons.


This is the same vision that the old lady that can see the future sees in teh first season. Also, since she couldn't give the time frame has it occured to anybody else that the scene where Clark is surrounded by graves is supposed to be the distant future, that Superman is effectively immortal. I mean the kid that could see the future more or less said the same thing.

VT, a vampire episode made your teeth hurt? Are you being punny? :D

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-16, 05:12 PM
Now since when have I ever made a pun...

CelestialStick
2006-06-16, 08:30 PM
It's not so much that he's oblivious to her feelings as the fact that apart from the physical characteristics, Chloe's a lot more interesting. I can certainly relate to your story about your co-worker though.


That's be sweet! It's hard to cast for Bruce Wayne though. That's why Christian Bale was so amazing - he can play the charming socialite exterior and immediately switch around to Batman, who's frankly a bit of a psycho.


Oh man... um, basically it's homoerotic fanfiction based on an implicit something-more-than-friends dynamic between two characters. Kirk / Spock was sort of the ur-slash pairing. Written and read, for reasons I can't fathom but probably keep busloads of semiotics PhD. candidates up at night, almost exclusively by women.
I remember when the first "everything but sex" stories, written by young woman, came out about Kirk and Spock back in the late 1960s or early 1970s. I gather than the name "slash" comes from the slash between the names, like Kirk/Spock or V/Belkar. It sounds like an ax murderer or something. What is "ur?" Does that refer to the original of something, like the hypothetical Ur people were the first Indo-European people or the city of Ur was one of the original cities in the western world? Well enough about that trash anyway.

I don't think that Chloe's necessarily more interesting, but she's certainly more accessible than Lana or even Lois.

I have yet to see the Christian Bale version of Batman. Maybe it will come to TV soon. With stupid lines like "if you choose to become more than a man then you become something else entirely" in the trailer, I just didn't get excited enough to go see it. The players in my D&D group tell me that he was the best of the actors to play Batman in the movies.




Well, I'm not sure that they're any more evil than men are... but they are evil, nonetheless. It's depressing...

Why are they evil?


The only plausible thing would have been to try to blow a hole in the spellbook--but he didn't get a chance to try it, and it would have been really hard to do that without risking accidentally killing Lana, Chloe, or Lois at the same time.

I think he was seriously considering shooting them, or at least of trying to scare them into thinking he would shoot them. I doubt seriously that he would have been able to bring himself to shoot her.


I haven't seen either of those, but I agree with you in liking them. I mean, he shouldn't be completely helpless without his powers; he's still a hero. I don't know if you ever saw Beast Wars Transformers, but there's a great episode where Dinobot is on the verge of death and disarmed, and one of the bad guys taunts him:

Bad Guy: *sneering* What's a warrior without weapons?
Dinobot: A warrior STILL!! *kicks the crap out of the bad guy while running on sheer willpower*

--I also always remembered that scene because I was thinking that exact response before Dinobot said it, which was cool. :)

I don't know the reference, but both Lois and Clark and Smallville have pointed out that what makes Superman a hero is that Clark Kent is a hero, powers or not.


I just meant that I actually know quite a bit about the characters, but I don't know enough about the actresses to make a judgement.

Yep, It's Chloe all the way. (Stupid Clark, *mumble* grumble*)

Yeah, they've been showing reruns on the weekends, too. I only saw the last half of the one I was talking about, but as near as I could tell, there was some kind of virus that got into people, making them very ill and hallucinating. When Lex hallucinated, he saw a vision of himself as president ordering missiles to fire, and then we see him walking along the charred land in the aftermath. I really liked the music in that scene, as well as the music that plays in the ending credits of some of the more recent seasons.

They've shown several variations on the them of Lex as president happily overseeing the nuclear devastation of the world. It's creepy. I'll have to check out the Sunday night reruns too.


I'm bummed about that too! I really liked his character. Maybe he'll still be in the credits, and make more ghost/flashback/impostor appearances like in the end of this last season.

This reminds me of an old Monty Python album sketch in which someone making a movie in the 1970s claims to have Marilyn Monroe in the film. "Well we feature her lying around, falling out of closets and the like." "But, um, surely Miss Monroe was cremated." "Yes, well, we feature her lying around in grates..."

Actually, if he's going to be dead, I'd just as soon that they don't make up excuses to have him in the show regularly. It would seem too contrived.


I have to disagree there--sure, Lana is very pretty, and so is Lois, but I think Chloe is the prettiest.

Well what do you know? You think women are evil anyway. ;)


Actually, I never said he was oblivious to her feelings, I agree that he obviously knows about them. If there's anything he's oblivious to though, it's that she's a much better catch than Lana is (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*).

Stupid Celestial Stick, *mumble* *grumble*. :D


--Nah, I'm just teasing you, but that comment was pretty much obligatory at this point. :D

To be more serious, sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like the other secretaries weren't very fair or kind to you. (And you're right, if the genders had been reversed, you would have been called pathetic, a stalker, or worse.)

I don't necessarily agree that it's the same way with Clark and Chloe, though, since Chloe is such a good person and Clark is already really close to her, which doesn't sound like it was the case at all with you and Miss Secretary. Plus, Chloe has never pressured Clark, and has been accepting of his relationship with Lana. She's such a great gal... (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)

About the Playgirl thing--who did the other secretaries think they were going to fool by doing that? Weren't they all in on it? And it doesn't seem likely that you yourself would have fallen for the trick...

I don't think the secretary who had the crush on me participated in the letter, but the others did. I don't know what they thought they were doing, other than insulting me.

A friend of mine once told me that she thought I should pose for Playgirl... it was kind of strange though, because I don't think she was flirting with me or making fun of me, and even though she must have known that given the kind of person I am, I would have never considered doing it, she seemed completely serious about it. To this day I'm not sure exactly why she said that...

Wasn't there an episode where he did come through Smallville? I thought a friend of mine said that there was.[/quote]

Not to my knowledge.

Me too, although I'm also playing catchup since I only recently startedreally watching it. I just watched the one with the pyromaniac coach from the first season--did you notice the Tidus/Yuna moment at the end? With the screaming?[/quote]

I'm not familiar with the names Tidus or Yuna. I didn't particularly like that episode.

Wait a minute--you didn't start this thread, I did! [/quote]

Heh, silly me. :D


So, then:


Because you have come to appreciate other, legitimate aspects of the show, I--the true thread starter--declare you, Caillach, to be forgiven. :D

(Besides, the severity of your crime is pretty mitigated by the vast amount of things that get watched by guys just because of the women in it... I think some entire careers have been made solely because a woman of dubious talent happens to be "hot".)

Even including the physical ones! (stupid Clark, *mumble* *grumble*)

Amen to that. Best. Movie. Ever. :D

Clark and Lex... like that? Just... no. :(


[Gag]

Anyway, you two did claim that he was oblvious. Damned revisionists! :D

Holy_Knight
2006-06-16, 09:31 PM
I have yet to see the Christian Bale version of Batman.

...

...I'm really torn here. *Part of me wants to give one of my typical incredulous shock kind of responses to this, but since that's become something of a running gag lately, I'd be afraid you wouldn't take it seriously. * ;) *

..So, instead, let me just say that I highly recommend you see Batman Begins. *It's very well done, and it definitely avoids the whole "Bat-deification" thing that you so often decry. *Trust me, it's definitely worth seeing. *:)



Why are they evil?
At this point, I think it would be too dangerous for me to answer this question. *I'm on the edge of the dark side right now as it is, and if I get started on the journey this answer would require of me, there may be no coming back...

Sometimes I think to myself: *"What if there were a damsel who was worth rescuing--not just because of some mandate of chivalric duty, but because she was a virtuous and loving person who I'd be lucky to spend my whole life with? *What if there were a maiden whose distress came from external sources, and not because she raised dragons as pets? * What if there dwelled on Earth a woman whose heart's desire rose above the petty vanities of our miserable race, to alight upon faithfulness, honor, and love?"

I allow myself a brief moment for these thoughts. *Then I return them to their proper place--amidst all the other dreams that cannot be.

...I have not escaped the danger, it seems. *Knight falls, my friend, and darkness along with me. *For everyone's sake--and not the least my own--I'll not often show this side of myself. *But from damsel-rescuing and thoughts of love I am retired, and Hope has long since forsaken the paths on which my feet tread. *


I don't know the reference, but both Lois and Clark and Smallville have pointed out that what makes Superman a hero is that Clark Kent is a hero, powers or not.
I agree. *Good old Clark! *:)


This reminds me of an old Monty Python album sketch in which someone making a movie in the 1970s claims to have Marilyn Monroe in the film. *"Well we feature her lying around, falling out of closets and the like." *"But, um, surely Miss Monroe was cremated." *"Yes, well, we feature her lying around in grates..."
LOL!


Well what do you know? You think women are evil anyway. ;)
Sure, but Chloe is an exception (note that she is a fictional character-- all the exceptions are...). *Besides, something evil or destructive can be beautiful physically... *there's a kind of beauty about a deadly cobra, and a belladonna plant may be quite lovely.

EDIT: Here's a lovely belladonna (http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2005/10/atropa_belladonna.php) plant. I couldn't find a good picture of a cobra.


I'm not familiar with the names Tidus or Yuna. *I didn't particularly like that episode.
Oh, okay. *Tidus and Yuna are two of the main characters from Final Fantasy X. *They both talk about just wanting to scream sometimes, and so eventually they do so, together, which sort of helps them feel better. *They end up together too, so it really was just like Clark and Lana there in a lot of ways.



Anyway, you two did claim that he was oblvious. *Damned revisionists! :D
I don't think that I did... *if I did, I didn't mean to, especially since I mentioned how he obviously knew she wanted him to take her to the prom, among other things.

CelestialStick
2006-06-16, 09:36 PM
...

...I'm really torn here. Part of me wants to give one of my typical incredulous shock kind of responses to this, but since that's become something of a running gag lately, I'd be afraid you wouldn't take it seriously. ;)

..So, instead, let me just say that I highly recommend you see Batman Begins. It's very well done, and it definitely avoids the whole "Bat-deification" thing that you so often decry. Trust me, it's definitely worth seeing. :)


I trust you. I just don't know when someone will show it on tv.

Actually every medium in which I've seen Batman has avoided the whole Bat-deification thing. There's no Bat-deification in the movies or in the various animated series. I haven't read the comics, so I'm not sure it's in there either, and not just in the minds of the Bat-deifiers themselves.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-16, 10:29 PM
I trust you. I just don't know when someone will show it on tv.

Actually every medium in which I've seen Batman has avoided the whole Bat-deification thing. *There's no Bat-deification in the movies or in the various animated series. *I haven't read the comics, so I'm not sure it's in there either, and not just in the minds of the Bat-deifiers themselves.

Eek, I modified my post to respond to your modification, and in the meantime you responded to my pre-modification post... this forum will be the death of me. Anyway, yeah, we certainly need to separate the evidence for the deification from the deification itself... there's a lot of interpretation work going on in between. Probably there's a small amount of stuff that really is ridiculous, some that's kind of out there but nonetheless plausible for Batman to pull off, and some that's just exaggerated by the fans in some sense.

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 05:34 PM
Eek, I modified my post to respond to your modification, and in the meantime you responded to my pre-modification post... this forum will be the death of me. Anyway, yeah, we certainly need to separate the evidence for the deification from the deification itself... there's a lot of interpretation work going on in between. Probably there's a small amount of stuff that really is ridiculous, some that's kind of out there but nonetheless plausible for Batman to pull off, and some that's just exaggerated by the fans in some sense.
I do suspect that it's mostly a matter of fans deifying Batman rather than the comics doing it. I see that there are now far more people making fun of "given preparation time, Batman always wins" than people who actually seriously make that claim.

Beleriphon
2006-06-17, 06:58 PM
Probably there's a small amount of stuff that really is ridiculous, some that's kind of out there but nonetheless plausible for Batman to pull off, and some that's just exaggerated by the fans in some sense.

Batman Begins does a good job of present Bats in a way that makes it seem as though he could be a real person. It is far and away the best of the Batman movies.

Anyhoo... Smallville... um... stupid phantom zone, how will our intrepid hero escape?

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 07:03 PM
Batman Begins does a good job of present Bats in a way that makes it seem as though he could be a real person. It is far and away the best of the Batman movies.

Anyhoo... Smallville... um... stupid phantom zone, how will our intrepid hero escape?

Yes, that's the 64,000-dollar question. If Clark can get out, he can run around saving everyone else, but if he's stuck, that's pretty much it for the rest of the cast.

I'll really have to check out Batman Begins.

Caillach
2006-06-17, 08:05 PM
I'll really have to check out Batman Begins.

Excelent movie. The other Batmans suck, but this one is gold.

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 08:56 PM
Excelent movie. The other Batmans suck, but this one is gold.
You know what? I actually liked some of the other Batman movies. I mean I don't like Val Kilmer in anything of course, but with the cape and cowl on you could barely tell it was his pretty-boy face. :D

I loved Jack Nicholson as the Joker, Danny Devito as the Penguin, and Ahhhhhhhnold as Mr. Freeze. Oh, and that older actor as Alfred.

I don't think any of the actors who played the Batman really came across as THE Batman to me, the way that Chris Reeve WAS Superman for so many of us who'd grown up on the old comic book and the George Reeves Superman of the 1950s.

The problem with casting Keaton, or Kilmer or Clooney is that they were all well-known actors, associated with other things. Maybe that's not true of Christian Bale; certainly I'm not familiar with his other work. Then of course there's the fact that Christoper Reeve just really WAS Superman. :D

Kontonshin
2006-06-18, 04:33 AM
Sometimes I think to myself: *"What if there were a damsel who was worth rescuing--not just because of some mandate of chivalric duty, but because she was a virtuous and loving person who I'd be lucky to spend my whole life with? *What if there were a maiden whose distress came from external sources, and not because she raised dragons as pets? * What if there dwelled on Earth a woman whose heart's desire rose above the petty vanities of our miserable race, to alight upon faithfulness, honor, and love?"

Can I hazard a guess that she'd probably end up boring the hell out of you? I mean, take Lana. Started off as the archetypal "damsel in distress" and a lot of viewers couldn't stand her for precisely that reason. Chloe's a nice girl, but she's also smart and capable enough to kill a lot of her own damn dragons.

CelestialStick
2006-06-18, 07:30 AM
Can I hazard a guess that she'd probably end up boring the hell out of you? I mean, take Lana. Started off as the archetypal "damsel in distress" and a lot of viewers couldn't stand her for precisely that reason. Chloe's a nice girl, but she's also smart and capable enough to kill a lot of her own damn dragons.
Actually, although I've grown to dislike Lana based on the events of the most recent season, I'd have to say that people give Lana short shrift because she's so pretty. Anyone who can start and successfully run a small business, while going to talk to her dead parents out at the graveyard from time to time, who manages to learn martial arts in between somewehre is hardly boring. She might be spoiled by all the attention she gets from men and ungrateful, but she's hardly boring.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-18, 07:49 AM
Actually, from the beginning I thought Lana looked more evil than 'pretty'. As I've said, merely look-wise give me Chloe any day.

And as for those martial arts, its simply amazing how she was able to master it in a manner of days ::)

CelestialStick
2006-06-18, 03:03 PM
Actually, from the beginning I thought Lana looked more evil than 'pretty'. As I've said, merely look-wise give me Chloe any day.

And as for those martial arts, its simply amazing how she was able to master it in a manner of days ::)
Sounds like sour grapes to me. ;)

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-18, 03:29 PM
Sounds like sour grapes to me. ;)
Good ears there. Can you hear any kind of grapes or are sour ones just unusually noisy?

CelestialStick
2006-06-18, 03:31 PM
Good ears there. Can you hear any kind of grapes or are sour ones just unusually noisy?

The sour ones are indeed unusually noisy. :D

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-18, 03:33 PM
Dunno, theres a certain grape here whoes made far more 'noise' than the furry, sour one...

Caillach
2006-06-18, 04:02 PM
You know what? I actually liked some of the other Batman movies. I mean I don't like Val Kilmer in anything of course, but with the cape and cowl on you could barely tell it was his pretty-boy face. :D



I hated Keaton. Worst batman ever.
For god's sake the man has no chin! You can't be a Superhero if you have no chin. His batman was far too wimpy for me to belive
:P
The previous batmans were too sureal for me. Just weird and to unbelivable (in a silly way).

Holy_Knight
2006-06-18, 04:57 PM
Can I hazard a guess that she'd probably end up boring the hell out of you? *I mean, take Lana. *Started off as the archetypal "damsel in distress" and a lot of viewers couldn't stand her for precisely that reason. *Chloe's a nice girl, but she's also smart and capable enough to kill a lot of her own damn dragons.
Nah, she wouldn't bore me. *I actually like Lana as she's portrayed at the beginning of the series (although I admit that her learning martial arts is a big plus, too. *I didn't know that.) *And while I agree about Chloe, I wouldn't describe her as having raised dragons as pets. *I think it's great when women are capable and strong. *It's the ones that are the architects of their own misery (which, when I'm in the kind of mood I was when I wrote the text you quoted, seems to be nearly all of them) that make me angry and jaded.

Quick recap: *

Damsels in distress from things that aren't their own fault -- Good

Damsels who are not in distress in the first place -- Good

Damsels who are capable and deal with their own problems, but also appreciate sincere help and support with them -- Good

Damsels who raise dragons as pets, then wonder why they're continually imprisoned by monsters that make them miserable (nearly all damsels) -- BAD

:)

Ing
2006-06-21, 01:39 PM
Arnold as Mr. Fries....nononononono....

That was Arnold DRESSED as Mr. Fries....he didn't play the part of Fries, he played himself.


"GYAYAYAYAY FREEEEZE IN HELL BATMAHN FREEZE IN HELL!!!!!! GHAAHAAJHAAYA"

he was loud and animated...something the real Fries never should be.

If Fries is mad at you he dosn't scream in Austrian Gibberish....he just *beeping* kills you...with ICE! ors ometimes with FIRE!. he kills you, kills you dead...bue he's always keeps his cool.

now Two Face is a screamer....but an angry one...not a goofy one like Jones portrayed...that was Jones playing Nicholas playing the joker not Jones playing two face.

god those movies were bad....even the penguin was a bit off....oh well. BATMAN BEGINS ALL THE WAY YAH!

nothingclever
2006-06-21, 02:28 PM
Smallville is utter garbage. It's like watching Degrassi or Days of Our Lives, Passions etc.

http://www.nbc.com/Passions/

Simply click the the little 4 on the picture, then click the picture itself and bam, you immediately have the entire summary of Smallville and a good laugh.

Kish
2006-06-21, 05:28 PM
"Mr. Fries" sounds like a villain in some kind of parody of something, based on McDonalds.

Personally, I was unimpressed with Batman Begins, absolutely hated Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but I liked the two with Michael Keaton* a lot.

*Identification for purposes of clarity, not meant to imply he was the reason I liked them.

Beleriphon
2006-06-21, 05:31 PM
"Mr. Fries" sounds like a villain in some kind of parody of something, based on McDonalds.

Personally, I was unimpressed with Batman Begins, absolutely hated Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but I liked the two with Michael Keaton* a lot.

*Identification for purposes of clarity, not meant to imply he was the reason I liked them.


I agree, Batman was a good movie. Largely because of Jack Nicholson though. At a functional level it should have been The Joker featuring a brief appearance by Batman.

CelestialStick
2006-06-21, 06:47 PM
I agree, Batman was a good movie. Largely because of Jack Nicholson though. At a functional level it should have been The Joker featuring a brief appearance by Batman.
That's pretty much what one reviewer said back when the movie premiered.

Keaton's chin seems ok to me. I thought he was a fine Batman--not great, but fine--although a little too obviously dark and a little too socially inept as Bruce Wayne.

Mr. Fries was hysterical! He does sound like something straight out of MacDonald Lane. You thought you were safe because Mayor MacCheese had put The Hamburgler in jail, but now along comes the evil Mr. Fries. 'Would you like ice with those fries?! Muhaha!"

Ing
2006-06-21, 11:07 PM
yes i see the joke but i was not mistaken

Mr. Freeze's name IS SPELT Fries. but is pronounced like "freeze"
his full name is Dr. Victor Fries.

i believe it's German

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-22, 01:40 AM
Mr. Freeze was actually a gimmicky camp villain when he first debuted in 1959 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Freeze) . His original handle was "Mr. Zero". Bruce Timm and Paul Dini, in B:TAS, gave him a tragic backstory and a surprisingly dry (if a tad chilly) wit. "Remember... there might be some momentary discomfort."

CelestialStick
2006-06-23, 01:22 AM
yes i see the joke but i was not mistaken

Mr. Freeze's name IS SPELT Fries. but is pronounced like "freeze"
his full name is Dr. Victor Fries.

i believe it's German

Well considering your difficulty spelling common words like "Soviet," "preparation," and "natural," it's not surprising that we thought you were just spelling something else wrong.


Mr. Freeze was actually a gimmicky camp villain when he first debuted in 1959 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Freeze) . His original handle was "Mr. Zero". Bruce Timm and Paul Dini, in B:TAS, gave him a tragic backstory and a surprisingly dry (if a tad chilly) wit. "Remember... there might be some momentary discomfort."
Thanks for the link to the article. I see that although the article says that Mr. Freeze's tragic story starts with the Paul Dini version, the article also says that the in the campy Batman series we learned that Batman had caused the condition which relegated Freeze to living in the cold. Although it didn't contain the element of his sick wife in cryogenic sleep, it's still tragic.

Edit: Did anyone see last night's episode of Smallville? What was the whole point of the silver kryptonite infection? To make Clark trust Fine? And to what end? Was Fine at that point hoping to get Clark to either become the vessel of Zod himself or at least willingly release Zod? It's weird but I saw this season all the way through, and yet so little of it made an impression on me. Of course I wasn't feeling well for much of the season, so that probably has at least a little to do with it.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-23, 01:53 AM
Smallville is utter garbage. It's like watching Degrassi or Days of Our Lives, Passions etc.
Aw, come on, it's not that bad. I've seen Passions--my ex-girlfriend used to watch it.

Yay, Smallville! :)


Personally, I was unimpressed with Batman Begins
HEATHEN!!!

And to think that I ever agreed with anything you ever said... You used to make such well thought-out comments... :'(

I guess I can sort of forgive you a little bit since you mentioned hating Batman and Robin...

Ellipses are great...

tis_tom
2006-06-23, 09:50 AM
Smallville is utter garbage. It's like watching Degrassi or Days of Our Lives, Passions etc.



I resent that comment about Days of Our Lives! I was bored, in Greece and channel flicking and realised to my joy...

It was a days of our lives marathon.

It was the most appaulling show I'd seen since I got addicted to the "gilmore girls" the last time I went to Greece.

But that's what makes it so fantastic! Irony is 'In' ;)

Incidentally that's why I love smallville. I love the way how EVERY episode ends on Lana or Lex, or on occasions, the both of them, going to Clark "What's your secret?"

Also I love how they try and make Clark out as the 'perfect American', His father just died! I wouldn't blame him if he DID lash out and kill someone morally corrupt! But nooo, he has to be on his high horse the entire time! Tbh it didn't get to me so much until the last season finale where if he had killed Lex then the world would be saved. You gotta make the sacrifice!

wait where was I? oh yeah! don't cuss days of our lives! lol It may be awful, but that's what makes it so fantastic! (someone sat down in a boardroom and came up with it for crying out loud!)

Steward
2006-06-23, 02:08 PM
But that's what makes it so fantastic!

Considering that it is almost completely identical to every other show of its kind on television, I find that hard to believe.

ETA: Oh, and I don't think that comparing Smallville to Days of Our Lives is fair. Smallville's producers (at LEAST!) pretend to care about making a good show, while the other show's producers seem to have a hard time disguising their deep contempt for their audience.

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 02:35 AM
Edit: Did anyone see last night's episode of Smallville? What was the whole point of the silver kryptonite infection? To make Clark trust Fine? And to what end? Was Fine at that point hoping to get Clark to either become the vessel of Zod himself or at least willingly release Zod? It's weird but I saw this season all the way through, and yet so little of it made an impression on me. Of course I wasn't feeling well for much of the season, so that probably has at least a little to do with it.

Yep. And Yep. I think it was largely to make Clark trust Fine, and thus become a willing vessel for Zod.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 11:40 PM
Yep. And Yep. I think it was largely to make Clark trust Fine, and thus become a willing vessel for Zod.

It just doesn't make sense. No matter how much Clark trusted Fine there was no way he would willingly let someone else take over his body.

Abd al-Azrad
2006-06-28, 01:44 AM
I know that VT has the exact same opinion as I, but I cannot for the life of me understand why I like the show. I've been renting the DVDs up to the season with all that witch stuff- what a moronic overaching plot- while every day asking myself why. Every episode is a disappointment, and yet I keep watching.

I think I must be hot for Tom Welling. He is an attractive young man, after all.

...Or, I could just like the whole superhero fantasy thing. Given I play D&D.

Beleriphon
2006-06-28, 09:43 AM
It just doesn't make sense. No matter how much Clark trusted Fine there was no way he would willingly let someone else take over his body.

True, but I don't think you need a willing host, just one that doesn't realize what's happening until its too late.

Smashymcsmash
2006-06-28, 07:41 PM
First off for Ing back on page 1. It is obviously not suppose to be current continuity but a lot of it harkens back to pre-Crisis Superboy where Lex and Superman did grow up in the same town and Lex blamed Superman for interrupting an experiment and causing it to explode on him. As a result he lost his hair. In Smallville the connection is still there but I have no idea if Lex ever made it since there is no Superboy. Maybe once he become Supes and they find out about kryptonite.

Anyway I tried to watch the show when it first came out but could only take so many episodes of "guy stands next to a kangaroo and kryptonite and gets kangaroo powers". I tried to get back into later but has always been too "Dawson's Creek" for me.

My favorite thing from the first episode has nothing to do with superman and everything to do with "The Dukes of Hazard". In the first episode Lex, after hitting Clark with his car and then being saved by Clark asked Jonathon "Bo" Kent if he could do anything to show his appreciation. And Pa replied "Don't drive so fast". Oh man I know it means I'm old but that cracked me up.

Bluelantern
2006-06-28, 10:38 PM
I watched the first season, but that was pretty much enough, I hate show writed by people that know less about science than I do, and seriously, the writters of smalvile should go back to school.

I only watch the end and begining of each season, just to know what they are doing.

CelestialStick
2006-06-29, 03:35 AM
First off for Ing back on page 1. It is obviously not suppose to be current continuity but a lot of it harkens back to pre-Crisis Superboy where Lex and Superman did grow up in the same town and Lex blamed Superman for interrupting an experiment and causing it to explode on him. As a result he lost his hair. In Smallville the connection is still there but I have no idea if Lex ever made it since there is no Superboy. Maybe once he become Supes and they find out about kryptonite.

Anyway I tried to watch the show when it first came out but could only take so many episodes of "guy stands next to a kangaroo and kryptonite and gets kangaroo powers". I tried to get back into later but has always been too "Dawson's Creek" for me.

My favorite thing from the first episode has nothing to do with superman and everything to do with "The Dukes of Hazard". In the first episode Lex, after hitting Clark with his car and then being saved by Clark asked Jonathon "Bo" Kent if he could do anything to show his appreciation. And Pa replied "Don't drive so fast". Oh man I know it means I'm old but that cracked me up.
Yes, Smallville has always been full of teen angst (now turning into young adult angst I guess) but I frankly enjoy that, so it's a plus rather an an minus for me.

I remember the pre-Crisis continuity with Lex and Superboy as friends and Superboy flying in to rescue Lex and accidentally exposing him to something that made him lose his hair and turn against Superboy. I read recently that the Smallville show had actually bought the rights to Superboy from DC (and DC has bought the rights to the character of Chloe Sullivan from Smallville), but they have a strict "no tights, no flights" policy on the show. I don't mind the "no tights" bit, but they already broke the "no flights" rule when Clark came back as Kal El without his memory and flew to Lex's jet and took from it a Kryptonian relic.

Since Clark started to levitate in his sleep during the first season, it's really about time that he learned to fly. I think it's a mistake to keep that out of the show forever, although at this point it sort of looks like they're all dead anyway. Although I love the show, given the season finale, I'd almost find it fitting if this fall they simply said, "That's all folks. Clark is trapped forever in the Phantom Zone, while Chloe, Martha and Lois are all dead. (I don't really care about Lionel Luther either way.) Lex is now Zod, and Lana, who had gotten progressively more judgemental over the series, is now fittingly his wife." Heh. :D

By the way, they did have a Superboy in one (technically two) episode(s). Clark got hit by lightning while in contact with some kid who wore classes, and the kid got his powers. Chloe write him up as "Superboy" in the Torch. :D

Ing
2006-06-29, 02:07 PM
yes i know its not based on anything supermanish...which is kinda the problem. how stupid an idea is it to take a character, strip away his established history and everything that made the character, and base a new angsty character off of him that is in name only (caugh...catwoman).

though granted DC is more than guilty of doing this to their own characters, but still. its not Superman +teen drama, it's teen drama+superman. and i LOATH most of the teen drama crap. its always a bunch of whiny self centered white bred brats and sexual deviants...why bother. in every one of these shows there will be at least (1) regreted hook up, (2) spontantious 'unexpected hook up, (3) trusted b/gf has an affair compleatly unexpectedly, (4) lesbian or bisexualism, (5) some sort of party fiasco. so bleeding predicatble and typicly not done well at all. the genre, is generally filled with poor story telling and blatent sensationalism and all around hack writing. adding the superman thing is just adding a gimick to an already hollow idea. y not make up their own character for the idea? i can guarntee, new names and remove the DC conection and the show will still be EXACTLY the same as it was before.

CelestialStick
2006-07-01, 01:31 AM
True, but I don't think you need a willing host, just one that doesn't realize what's happening until its too late.
I saw this past week's episode in which Fine tricks Clark into nearly destroying the Fortress and Chloe has to come save Clark, who then, with an assist from the Fortress, destroys this particular incarnation of Fine. When we first saw this episode we don't know that "Zod's body was destroyed before he was put into the Phantom Zone so that he could never escape" so we didn't know that Zod needed a vessel. Now that we know it, in hindsight, we can see that in this past week'e espisode that's why Fine doesn't kill Clark, but at the time it looked like another "villain incapacitates superhero, then gloats, leaving superhero alive." Clark was supposed to be the vessel.

Now that I know Fine's supposed to be Brainiac, more or less, I find that I don't at all like what they've done to him in Smallville. I've never seen an incarnation of Brainiac that had the same powers as Kryptonians. And then there's the whole issue of Brainiac working for Zod... :(

Ing
2006-07-01, 08:53 AM
If Brainiac appears to be working for Zod...rest assured he is meerly manipulating them to his own ends

Beleriphon
2006-07-01, 09:52 AM
Now that I know Fine's supposed to be Brainiac, more or less, I find that I don't at all like what they've done to him in Smallville. I've never seen an incarnation of Brainiac that had the same powers as Kryptonians. And then there's the whole issue of Brainiac working for Zod... :(

This version of Brainiac borrows heavily from the DCAU version, in that he's a mechanical construct as opposed to mentalist Milton Fine who is possessed by an alien mind and becomes Brainiac. As for Zod, there have been a number of changes, and I think that making Brainiac a construct created by Zod is an interesting twist. It makes a certain degree of sense when looking as Zod as the primary villain for the show, at least for the foreseeable future.

As for powers, he doesn't have the same powers of Kryptonians, unless you count flying and super strength and super speed. These are all things that Brainiac has at one point or another displayed though the use of his own power.

Beleriphon
2006-07-28, 03:17 AM
And just to try to get discussion going again:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/smallvillespoilers.htm

Check out Episode 6-2 "Sneeze" and the guest stars. One will be Oliver Queen, yes our favourite emerald archer seems to be getting a short story arc in Smalleville.

Holy_Knight
2006-07-29, 12:48 AM
And just to try to get discussion going again:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/smallvillespoilers.htm

Check out Episode 6-2 "Sneeze" and the guest stars. One will be Oliver Queen, yes our favourite emerald archer seems to be getting a short story arc in Smalleville.
But... but... I don't want to know any spoilers! I want it to be a surprise!

I don't mind speculation though... so how do you guys think everyone will be saved after the season finale of season 5? How will Clark get out of the Phantom Zone? And by the way, when does the new season start, exactly?

Beleriphon
2006-07-29, 05:23 AM
But... but... I don't want to know any spoilers! I want it to be a surprise!

I don't mind speculation though... so how do you guys think everyone will be saved after the season finale of season 5? How will Clark get out of the Phantom Zone? And by the way, when does the new season start, exactly?


September 28th, 2006 is the season opener. As for the hows and why, no idea just yet beyond the fact that Oliver Queen will be featured at some point in the season.

In terms of spoilers, blame TV Guide, they're the ones that leaked that Justin Hartley will be playing Oliver Queen.

anphorus
2006-08-04, 12:19 PM
Green Arrow seems a bit... random. If I was thinking of a character to guest star in Smallville, Oliver doesn't immediatly spring to mind. I would love to see Wonder Woman or Green Lantern in Smallville. Definitely Batman, though I understand their reasons for not having Bruce appear.

I think it'd be very interesting if Conner Kent was introduced, though I don't see it happening.

Beleriphon
2006-08-04, 06:14 PM
Green Arrow seems a bit... random. If I was thinking of a character to guest star in Smallville, Oliver doesn't immediatly spring to mind. I would love to see Wonder Woman or Green Lantern in Smallville. Definitely Batman, though I understand their reasons for not having Bruce appear.

I think it'd be very interesting if Conner Kent was introduced, though I don't see it happening.


Green Arrow makes sense though. Being one of the JLA founders, and by all accounts he's trying to gather like minded folks. At any rate he's there as a possible interest for Lois, so Ollie makes even more sense.

Connor not so much so, by virture of being a clone of Clark.

anphorus
2006-08-13, 01:12 PM
Connor not so much so, by virture of being a clone of Clark.
Don't forget that he's a clone of Lex too. I was just considering Con-El for coolness factor really, I didn't think that they would ever have him in the show.

ravenkith
2006-08-17, 04:55 PM
Ok.

I have to speak up.

The character Chloe, is so much more of an attractive person than the character Lana on the Smallville show?

Why?

Well the way I see it, Chloe is a beautiful, intelligent, motivated woman who is loyal, trustworthy and deeply in love with Clark.

Meanwhile, Lana comes off as a selfish, self-involved dilettante who (let's face it) moves from one guy to the next as easily as most folks change their socks.

Personally, I love the idea of Chloe and Clark having a serious relationship together. It's not that Clark doesn't love Chloe, it's just that he's utterly fixated on Lana. Why?

Well, to put it quite simply, Clark has been raised with an overriding sense of guilt, responsibility and fear. Probably the main reason he isn't already with Chloe is the idea that she would be sorely tempted to reveal his 'secret' (well, just about everyone BUT Lana and Lex knows it now), as a part of her journalistic endeavours. Now that she's been his confidant for a while, that obstacle is finally out of the way.

However, Clark still has his guilt and responsibility to overcome. Frankly, I think, because of the way he was brought up, with his parents expecting him to do good and great things, has had a real negative impact on him: I suspect the reason he got with Lana in the first place, aside from his crush on her, was because he felt he was saving her from her biggest fear - being alone.

Truly, this girl just cannot be alone. First she jumps from Whitney to Clark, then from Clark to Jason, and then back to Clark, and then all the way to Lex (I hope I didn't miss anyone). But we all know she has abandonment and trust issues, so I guess it shouldn't really be a surprise...

The reason Clark is so hung up on Lana is because she is so damaged, he can feel justified in taking the time he spends with her...

I mean, if you had power to burn, and you were a good-natured person, wouldn't you feel guilty about taking time to spend with your girlfriend when people were dying in a tenement fire the next county over?

But what if she was a self-destructive whiner with abandonment issues, and a slightly suicidal bent (some of the things she does, jeez) who is always talking about her desire to get away from Smallville and everything in it?

You might feel a little better about taking a couple of hours to relax, if you were spending it with someone who might otherwise end up dead if you weren't around to save them.

Chloe on the other hand, rarely needs saving, if only compared to Lana. This is a girl who has investigated major news stories, dealt with all kinds of freaks while keeping her cool (the yearbook episode, with the guy who can 'freeze' people?), and presided over the nigh-end of the world with the same steel nerves and faith in Clark, no matter what. This is the girl who, so desperate to get ahead, she splits her time between university and an internship at the Planet, but refuses to divulge Clarks secret to the world. She probably never even thought about it.

That and Kristin Kreuk, while attractive, is NOT prettier than Allison Mack.

All that combined, and while I wouldn't say no to Lana, should the opportunity present itself, I'd be thinking of Chloe...every day for the rest of my life and regretting not being with her, if I were Clark.

As another poster put it: 'She's a great gal'.

Fortuately, Clark is now in the negative zone (where every day feels like a thousand, if I remember my quotes aright) and he will have some time to reflect upon his lack of judgement. Here's hoping that once he gets out of the negative zone (hey, didn't he and Chloe break into a nuclear missile silo once? ;D ) he'll have spent most of his time replaying that kiss over and over in his mind, and decided that he could really go for a girl like her...<sigh>.

Sadly, if Clark and her do get together, it means her death, for continuity reasons. But then, that could be the final straw at the end of the next season, that pushes him into moving to Metropolis. Sadly, that would mean the end of the show: after all, it's called Smallville, not Metropolis.

Under no circumstances should he get back with Lana. I actually cheered when she died (just to be clear, I'm talking about the character, not the actress). I was frigging p|ssed when he brought her back (but he couldn't do anything else and still be him, I guess).

Oh and clones are possible: there's so much of Clark's blood out there unaccounted for, it could fill a soup turreen (didn't Lex have a vial of it for several unmonitored days?).