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View Full Version : [Request/Project] Adapting ToB to a modern setting



ThisOne
2010-05-12, 03:41 PM
Okay, so this is a rather ambitious project, but to lay out the general gist of it I feel that combat in d20 modern is boring to the point of painful. I plan on using a series of new classes that would be compatible with a modern (or Sci-fi) setting run in 3.5 or d20 modern that use a system of TOB maneuvers to provide more diverse combat options. Other skills (like sneaking or tech use) would be covered by talent trees. Melee weapons are meant to be inferior here. To balance this strength would probably have to be added to attacks with large long-arms instead of dex.

Tentatively, I am hoping to make classes up to 10th level. I'm shooting for 4 disciplines with 2 maneuvers per discipline at each level plus one stance per discipline at 1, 3, and 5. That makes 52 maneuvers in total which is just over one and-a-half times what you'd need for a single ToB discipline. This seems like a reasonable goal, and I'm hoping for community support in brainstorming and actual creation (particularly from those of you who've homebrewed a lot of disciplines yourselves). This isn't a huge project, and I'm planning to stick with it to the end up to and including play-testing. Because I'm not intimately familiar with ToB community support is really important, and I think that this has the potential to be really useful to a large audience.

At the moment I am particularly looking for supportive folks as well as brainstorming for maneuvers and stances.

The (Tentative) Base Classes:

I do not have a final progression for things like BAB, but I am aiming for two classes; one focused more on combat and the other on non-combat talent trees. Maneuver progression would be the same for both--the difference would be in BAB, saves, HD, etc. The particulars of talents has to wait for now. It is the least important thing here and hinges on balance issues in all the other areas. Possibly HD and BAB reduced by one level would to the trick.

Examples of non-maneuver talent trees are:
Soldier
Demolitions
Hacker
Burglar
Scout
Pilot
etc...

Maneuver progression would be as the warblade for both classes as would stances (that is, 8 known and 5 readied by 10th along with 3 stances)


The 4 Disciplines:

Names aren't set in stone yet. Suggestions are encouraged. I am only using boosts and strikes. Counters don't seem especially relevant to a gunfight.

Gunslinger: This discipline focuses on trick shots, dual-wielding, and other attacks related to small guns. This is probably where you'd expect to see a ranged disarm and such. Favored weapons are one-handed small-arms.

Machine Gunner (please give me a new name): This discipline focuses on area control, suppression fire, and devastating attacks. Favored weapons are automatics.

Shock Trooper: This discipline focuses on dynamic entries, firing on the move, and close-quarters gunfights. Favored weapons are shotguns and submachine guns.

Deadeye: This discipline foccuses on precise, well aimed shots at the expense of automatic fire. Favored weapons are semiautomatic and single-shot longarms.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-05-12, 04:12 PM
Discipline Names
Dead Aim: Non-automatic longarms, precise shots.
Leaden Rain: Heavy weapons, suppressive fire, area attacks.
Blazing Hands: Pistols and dual pistols, trick shots.
Chicago Lightning: SMGs and light machine guns, mobile attacks.
Brutal Storm: Shotguns, high damage, and knockback.
Heavy Ordinance: Grenades, mini-guns, flamethrowers, and other super-weapons.

demidracolich
2010-05-12, 04:14 PM
You could take some ideas from the black rain discipline.

ThisOne
2010-05-12, 06:36 PM
I like the choice of names. Realistically a discipline for ordinance is probably unnecessary (and adds another 13 powers that aren't going to see much use anyway). Some ordinance could probably be used with Dead Aim (RPGs and A-M rifles) while other things (recoilless rifles, missile launchers and whatnot) aren't really cut out for stunts (or for using on characters--it's really bad form) Also, brutal storm should ideally have a focus on acting fast, breaching doors etc. in addition to the other stuff--it is meant to be the iconic discipline of urban warriors and SWAT.


A few general ideas on power levels and showiness.

1st through 3rd level powers should all fall within what a competent shooter could do in real life. 4th and 5th should be superhuman but also not absurd. No powers should be supernatural in any way (no teleportation, flight etc.) This is meant as a general purpose system that can be used in a FX-less world.

I'll start writing up ideas for maneuvers (minus names). Also, I tentatively think 3 powers/discipline for 1st level may be good because it gives a mook a few more options. I'm also taking back my position on counters (though none are actualy stopping an attack)

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-05-12, 06:40 PM
*Stuff*

Awesome. I also have a bunch of idea relating to my suggested names...mind if I tag along with this project?

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-12, 06:41 PM
Black Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99529), if you haven't looked at the above poster's suggestion.

It seems only slightly more powerful than the scale you're going for. You could likely remove and add maneuvers at your discretion.

ThisOne
2010-05-12, 06:46 PM
I'm specificaly looking for a more modern and less supernatural set of manuvers. Also, I want to define several disciplines since it is going to be used in games that exclusively focus on guns.

Anyone is welcome to tag along on this fun little adventure. Hopefully it provides a simpler and more cinematic approach to combat.

Also, how many bullets used in the manuver is also going to be useful. 1, 3, 10, 30, 50, and 100 is probably all the specificity we'll need.


The list of maneuvers so far (no hard mechanics just yet. Concepts first:

Dead Aim:

1:
*Aimed shot: (full round attack, bonus to hit)
*Return fire: (counter, make an attack on someone who shoots you even if you canít see them. Attack is at penalty, and cannot be used within one range increment)
*Readied shot
*Marksmanís Stance: (stance, bonus to hit. increases for each round you donít move or take damage to a maximum)

2:
*Disarming shot
*Shoot to wound (cause significant damage to a target without killing them in order to draw out other enemies)

3:
* One shot one kill (very powerful attack that takes 2/3 rounds uninterrupted aiming).
*Sniper's perch stance (Stance, ignore all cover and concealment short of 100% and full, bonus to stay hidden while firing)

4:
*Cover piercing shot (Ignore 3/4 of the hardness of any soft sover when firing at someone on the other side. Reduce miss chance due to total concealment)

5:
*Eagle-eye stance. (Set a specific condition each round. You may fire whenever that condition is met as many times as your BAB would allow at an increasing penalty even when it isn't your turn. You may not do this if you have moved the previous round excepting 5 foot steps)

Lead Rain:

1:
*Suppression fire (Enemy must make a will save to leave cover. If they do you make a free attack-affacts an area)
*Braced stance (your attacks

2:

3:

4:

5:
*Tear to ribbons (massive burst of automatic fire. Takes two rounds, target cannot move if hit on the first and takes massive amounts of damage)

Blazing Hands:

1:
*Taunting shot (Show off to demoralize your enemies)
*Double tap (increased damage, multiple shots from a semiautomatic weapon)
*Quick draw stance (draw up to two weapons as a free action and get a bonus to your attack if you do.

2:
*(Attack up to 3 targets with an increasing penalty)

3:
*Shoot Down the Barrel (Sucessful hit destroys the enemy's gun, and causes it to plow up in their face for a fixed amount of damage)

4:

5:
*?(Stance, Allows a free attack on anyone who started the round flatfooted or became flat footed before you acted)

Chicago Lightning:

1:
*Street sweeper (attack an area vs ref.)
*Automatic burst (large amount of damage to one enemy. Penalty to hit)

2:


3:

4:

5:

Brutal Storm:

1:
*Go in yelling (intimidate foes on the first round of combat in adition to an attack)
*Weapons Free (stance, improves initiative, extra free attack when you surprise a flatfooted enemy at the beginning of combat within one range increment)

2:
*Shoot for the feet (Ranged trip attack within one range increment. Low damage)
*(no penalty for shooting into melee, damage bonus)

3:

4:

5:

DracoDei
2010-05-12, 08:30 PM
Age of Warriors had two bow disciplines originally, someone whose name escapes me (my memory for names is very bad) reformatted that into 3, with a pinch of help from me. They were Falcon's Eye, Iron Rain, and... I think the last one is tentatively named Pheonix Feather... anyway, a lot of the stances and maneuvers would be easy to reformat for use with firearms.

ThisOne
2010-05-12, 10:35 PM
Again, I'm really trying to focus on custom building a discipline that really suits firearms, but I will take a look to see how ranged powers are balanced at least.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-05-13, 09:19 AM
Dead Aim

Associated Skill: Spot

Level 1 Maneuvers
Sniper's Nest [Stance] -- +2 to attack rolls and +1d6 damage provided you move no more than 5 feet during your turn.
Unwavering Aim -- Add +10 bonus to next ranged attack roll.





Level 2 Maneuvers
Called Shot [Strike] -- Make a single attack, maximize all weapon damage.
Death Unseen [Boost] -- You gain a +10 bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks to remain unseen after the attack. Additionally, you may delay the physical effects of your attack (damage, death, and even other's knowledge that an attack hit your for) for up to 1 full round.




Level 3 Maneuvers
Tankbuster Round [Strike] -- Attack target behind cover without penalty, or behind total cover with a 50% miss chance.
Penetrating Shot [Strike] -- Attack targets in a line.
Assassin's Precision [Stance] -- Ready an action to attack a foe, causing him to lose his action.


Level 4 Maneuvers
Boom, Headshot [Strike] -- Deal +2d6 damage and stagger foe.





Level 5 Maneuvers
Deadeye Stance [Stance] -- Threat range increases by +1 for each successful attack you make without missing, to a maximum of +1 per round and +5 overall. 3 rounds without attacking resets the bonus.
Shoot the Horizon [Strike] -- Make a single ranged attack with 150% of your normal range, and take no penalties for firing at range. If you hit, deal +6d6 damage.
One Shot, One Kill [Strike]-- Attack deals +6d6 damage, increases DC of Massive Damage save.


[b]Brutal Storm

Associated Skill: Intimidate

Level 1 Maneuvers
Lock and Load [Boost] -- Reload a weapon and make an Intimidate check to demoralize a foe as a swift action.
Homewrecker [Strike] -- Make a Strength check to break a barrier, using your Dexterity + Base Attack Bonus in place of your Strength modifier. If you fail, deal extra damage to the object and ignore hardness.
Concussive Shell Strike [Strike] -- +1d8 damage, and the target is forced backwards.
Close Quarters Gunnery [Stance] -- You re-roll all 1s and 2s on firearm damage rolls against targets within 30 feet.


Level 2 Maneuvers
Up Close and Personal [Boost] -- Take a 5ft step and make a melee attack with the butt of your weapon immediately following a successful firearm attack.





Level 3 Maneuvers
Calling Shotgun [Stance] -- You deal +1d10 damage to any foe who has been struck by an ally since the end of your last turn.


Level 4 Maneuvers
Visceral Devastation [Boost] -- When you dispatch a nearby foe, make an Intimidate check to frighten those around you.





Level 5 Maneuvers
Concussion Blast [Strike] -- Deal +3d6 damage and stun foe.
Shotgun Wedding [Stance] -- You gain a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks and damage rolls against opponents you struck last round, and they suffer a -2 penalty to all attacks against you or your allies.


--Work in Progress--

ThisOne
2010-05-14, 11:05 PM
Just posting to say I'm not dead. Just busy.

Maneuvers that benefit teamwork in brutal storm are a good idea. It rounds out probably the least immediately useful discipline.

Boom headshot seems weak for an L4 maneuver and I don't know how I feel about building for default d20 modern rules like massive damage. That could get really ugly. A list of houserules is probably in order.

I'm also having some problems differentiating Chicago lighning from lead rain conceptually (at least in terms of what each of them actually does) besides a difference in mobility.