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View Full Version : Nightcrawler Vs. Spiderman



AmoDman
2006-06-26, 08:11 PM
The wall-crawlers clash! Who will win? The wiz-kid or the pious wonder? Obviously, Spiderman is stronger, but first he has to FIND the teleporting, light-absorbing little demon priest. Though his Spidey-senses certainly will help him in this respect, do they extend to the alternate dimension, and will NCs crazy, spine-twisting acrobatics throw the Spider for a loop? Discuss!

Lykan
2006-06-26, 08:24 PM
Nightcrawler, hands down. I have my reasons.

Flabbicus
2006-06-26, 08:34 PM
A tie in a straight up fight and a tie with preparation. :P

Ego Slayer
2006-06-26, 08:43 PM
I can't believe I'm responding to one of these. Nightcrawler just 'cause he's cooler. ::)

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 08:51 PM
I can't believe I'm responding to one of these. Nightcrawler just 'cause he's cooler. ::)

It's because we're dealing with more mundane yet superhuman power levels now, not to mention the coolest cats of the bunch :D.

I like my main man Nichtcrawler, but I figured there'd be some convincing arguments for Spidey as well...it's a close match (maybe).

Flabbicus
2006-06-26, 08:54 PM
That's why it's a tie! They are both too cool! :P

Caillach
2006-06-26, 09:25 PM
I have to go with nightcrawler. You can't beat a blue guy.

ElfLad
2006-06-26, 09:27 PM
I also favor Nightcrawler because he's cooler. And more awesome.

Nightcrawler and Spiderman are presumably equal in acrobatic skill. That leaves their extras:

Nightcrawler:
Prehensile tail
Teleportation
Fencing ability
Blends into shadows

Spiderman:
Web-slingers (can be disabled or can run out)
Spider-sense
Greater strength/endurance

I can't see Spiderman getting enough web fluid on Nightcrawler to slow him down or stop him, given Nightcrawler's teleporting abilities. Nightcrawler could probably also teleport free of any web the Spiderman could get on him. Nightcrawler's smoke residue would also make it more difficult for Spidey to locate him, unless Nightcrawler attacks him and triggers his Spider-sense. Even so, Nightcrawler could probably wear Spidey down a bit before Spidey could get a solid hit. I'd give the fight to Nightcrawler, particularly since both combatants are unlikely to fight to the death, since both have demonstrated a willingness to put themselves at risk to prevent the deaths of their opponents.

Plus I like Nightcrawler better.

Idiotbox90
2006-06-26, 09:41 PM
Are we talking about classic Spiderman? Totem spirit Spiderman? Mech-suit Spiderman? I think his Spider-sense will give him the edge in any case. Nightcrawler's main advantage in a fight is his ability to catch an opponent off-guard and that's nearly impossible to do with Spiderman. Plus Spiderman has Nightcrawler outclassed in terms of strength.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-26, 10:40 PM
I can't believe I'm responding to one of these. Nightcrawler just 'cause he's cooler. ::)

Aw, come on, Batman really does always win if that's the criterion. ;)

Anyway, as for the actual topic--I think this would be a very close fight. Neither one would be able to get a hit on each other, because Nightcrawler can teleport, and Spiderman's Spider Sense would warn him ahead of time. I see this as a very long, drawn out fight where either the loser is the one who tires out first, or the fight ends in a draw. Maybe if we factor in Peter's abysmal luck, Nightcrawler wins it.

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 10:45 PM
Aw, come on, Batman really does always win if that's the criterion. * ;)

Anyway, as for the actual topic--I think this would be a very close fight. Neither one would be able to get a hit on each other, because Nightcrawler can teleport, and Spiderman's Spider Sense would warn him ahead of time. *I see this as a very long, drawn out fight where either the loser is the one who tires out first, or the fight ends in a draw. *Maybe if we factor in Peter's abysmal luck, Nightcrawler wins it.

Actually, I was saying that may or may not be true. Can Spidey's sense detect NC before he appears? (as he is in a seperate dimension) Maybe, maybe not. Also, Nightcrawly presumably has greater acrobatic ability posessing a spine that can be contorted and twisted into almost any feasible position (as well as the extremely strong tail), whereas Spidey has greater endurance/strength.

Idiotbox90
2006-06-26, 10:46 PM
I seem to remember there being a limit to how much teleporting nightcrawler can do every day. Can anyone confirm this?

Ing
2006-06-26, 10:57 PM
at firs he could only teleport about once a day and only withing maybe 50-80 feet. with practice he's gottin better so he can do many many short jumps before he tires out. pretty much his onlylimit now is how disorienting it is to disapear and reapear in so many places. makes you very dizzy.

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 11:06 PM
I seem to remember there being a limit to how much teleporting nightcrawler can do every day. Can anyone confirm this?

From what I understand of everything I've ever seen of the normally established Nightcrawler, he has a very high tolerance to his teleportaion "wooziness," and can do it loads (if not near infinitely). However, others get very disconcerted and often even pass out through the process, so a tactic he has been known to use is just grabbing them and teleporting them a bunch against their will (or, as a I read, the Age of Apocalypse more sadistic Nightcrawler was known for teleporting body parts...without the bodies).

CelestialStick
2006-06-26, 11:07 PM
Aw, come on, Batman really does always win if that's the criterion. ;)

Anyway, as for the actual topic--I think this would be a very close fight. Neither one would be able to get a hit on each other, because Nightcrawler can teleport, and Spiderman's Spider Sense would warn him ahead of time. I see this as a very long, drawn out fight where either the loser is the one who tires out first, or the fight ends in a draw. Maybe if we factor in Peter's abysmal luck, Nightcrawler wins it.
I have to agree with Holy Nugat on all but one point: if we're basing who wins off who's the coolest, Superman wins hands down.

The Nightcrawler portrayed in X-Men: Evolution (which I call X-Teens) didn't seem to have any limit on his teleportation abilities, in which case I agree with Holy Knight that it would probably be a long, inconclusive fight. If as suggested by others on this thread, however, Nightcrawler startst to tire after a few teleports, I'd give it to Spiderman. Although if Nighcrawler can feel his limit coming, he'd probably just teleport out, returning the outcome of the fight to inconclusivity. :D

Edit: With regard to the Spider sense, I'd say that it's irrelevant whether the sense can detect Nightcrawler in another dimension. What matters is whether the sense is precognitive, and thus can detect something (like Nightcrawler's reappearance in this dimension) before it happens. In the first Spiderman movie, the museum tour director mentioned that some spiders have reactions so fast that they border on precongition, so I'd give this one to Spiderman.

Hoorex
2006-06-26, 11:25 PM
Wait, Nightcrawler has his three swords correct? I would assume so, since spidy has his webslingers, but I got to say, Spidy.

There is asbsolutely no way in hell NC could get enough good hits in before Spidy got lucky.

I mean, with his Spider-sense and already amazing reflexes(Which IMO are better than NC's to begin with) he's practically unhittable. Then ontop of that, he's faster, stronger, and smarter. How can he loose?

Ing
2006-06-26, 11:28 PM
but nightcrawler has god on his side while spiderman is a servetn of the evil godless science!

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 11:38 PM
but nightcrawler has god on his side while spiderman is a servetn of the evil godless science!

I lol'd.

@ Thizz, huh? In your opinion, Spidy has better reflexes? That doesn't hold much weight...all you really said is, "NC couldn't hit Spidy becasue I said so." Ok...

Idiotbox90
2006-06-26, 11:42 PM
but nightcrawler has god on his side while spiderman is a servetn of the evil godless science!

Evil godless science? I wish that was still true. Apparently, the spider is Peter Parker's totem animal.

Hoorex
2006-06-26, 11:45 PM
Well I mean think about it, he's been in countless fights, and is in his prime! He has experience and is at his peak physical condition.

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 11:46 PM
Well I mean think about it, he's been in countless fights, and is in his prime! He has experience and is at his peak physical condition.

And all that doesn't apply to Nightcrawler as well?

Hoorex
2006-06-26, 11:51 PM
Not the expierence...I dont think...But okay, fine maybe they have the same reflexes, but he also has spidy sense plus he faster stronger and smarter. STILL tell me how NC wins?

Ing
2006-06-26, 11:54 PM
nightcrawler is a trianed master fencer...that gives him an advantage agianst the untrained spiderman. i'm sorry to say

CelestialStick
2006-06-26, 11:58 PM
I lol'd.

@ Thizz, huh? In your opinion, Spidy has better reflexes? That doesn't hold much weight...all you really said is, "NC couldn't hit Spidy becasue I said so." Ok...
Well I read both the Marvel website and the Wikipedia website. Marvel says that he's a superb acrobat, but nothing about superhuman reflexes. Wikipedia says he does have superhuman reflexes. I'd tend to go with what Marvel's site says. But even with superb reflexes, he should land a blow occasionally. The thing is, Spiderman is stronger than a human, and I don't think that Nightcrawler is, so even if Nightcrawler his occasionally it seems like he won't do nearly the damage that Spiderman will do to him--and more frequently. So I'm still giving this to Spiderman. :)

AmoDman
2006-06-26, 11:59 PM
Not the expierence...I dont think...But okay, fine maybe they have the same reflexes, but he also has spidy sense plus he faster stronger and smarter. STILL tell me how NC wins?

Faster? No (this would actually go to Nightcrawler...considering he teleports). Stronger? Yes. Smarter? No, at least not in wits and strategy. Spidy may be a science wiz, but NC is still extremely intelligent, and we know he's no dummy when it comes to medics or mechanics either. It's an interesting match, w/o devious tactics on either end, though you know they'd eventually have to resort to them or draw. NC, for instance, could wear Peter out teleporting him all over the place against his will, or Peter could attempt to come up with some sort of strategy anticipating where NC would appear next.

edit: "Superhuman Reflexes" is essentially in reference to his Spiderlike reflexes, aka, Spider sense, CS.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 12:02 AM
Faster? No (this would actually go to Nightcrawler...considering he teleports). Stronger? Yes. Smarter? No, at least not in wits and strategy. Spidy may be a science wiz, but NC is still extremely intelligent, and we know he's no dummy when it comes to medics or mechanics either. It's an interesting match, w/o devious tactics on either end, though you know they'd eventually have to resort to them or draw. NC, for instance, could wear Peter out teleporting him all over the place against his will, or Peter could attempt to come up with some sort of strategy anticipating where NC would appear next.
The ability to teleport might mean that he could arrive at some distant locale faster, but it doesn't make his body faster. Spiderman likely could punch him out before he could teleport away.

Also, according to the Marvel website, Nightcrawler does indeed get tired out from teleporting, so his best bet once he starts to lose is probably to teleport away from the fight.

Edit: In most contexts, when someone refers to reflexes, they refer to the speed with which you can act and react. So for instance, who quickly you can throw a punch and not just how quickly you can react to someone throwing a punch. Spiderman has the spider sense, which allows him to dodge quickly (or before something quite happens) but he also has superhuman reflexes in the general sense, and can throw a punch with superhuman speed.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 12:05 AM
The ability to teleport might mean that he could arrive at some distant locale faster, but it doesn't make his body faster. Spiderman likely could punch him out before he could teleport away.

Not quite. A very common tactic NC often uses and has strictly trained himself to do is his super fast disapearing/re-appearing act landing a million and *a half blows on 1+ opponents before they can even react. See the white house scene in X2 (which was a decent representation). Notice that they were shooting him. Is Spiderman's fist now faster than a speeding bullet?

edit: For all those thinking NC "couldn't land a punch on Spidy," besides the above tactic, I will quote the Wikipedia descritption of the other I have already referenced - "The process of teleportation places a tremendous strain on his endurance and that of any passengers. Extensive training has raised his tolerance for teleportation, but most of his passengers lack this tolerance. Therefore, one of his tactics is to grab opponents and make several quick teleportations with them. They usually are weakened or even pass out from the strain. His more ruthless counterpart in the Age of Apocalypse story line used this same trick with a small twist, generally bringing only certain parts of his opponents with him. He removed Deadpool's head in this way, killing him."

Idiotbox90
2006-06-27, 12:06 AM
His costume is bulletproof against small caliber bullets, so I don't think rapiers will do much. That is assuming that Nightcrawler can even hit him.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 12:29 AM
Not quite. A very common tactic NC often uses and has strictly trained himself to do is his super fast disapearing/re-appearing act landing a million and a half blows on 1+ opponents before they can even react. See the white house scene in X2 (which was a decent representation). Notice that they were shooting him. Is Spiderman's fist now faster than a speeding bullet?

edit: For all those thinking NC "couldn't land a punch on Spidy," besides the above tactic, I will quote the Wikipedia descritption of the other I have already referenced - "The process of teleportation places a tremendous strain on his endurance and that of any passengers. Extensive training has raised his tolerance for teleportation, but most of his passengers lack this tolerance. Therefore, one of his tactics is to grab opponents and make several quick teleportations with them. They usually are weakened or even pass out from the strain. His more ruthless counterpart in the Age of Apocalypse story line used this same trick with a small twist, generally bringing only certain parts of his opponents with him. He removed Deadpool's head in this way, killing him."
I should have been more clear: the ability to teleport doesn't mean that he can move his body faster.

Now maybe he can move his body faster than Spiderman can. There's nothing on either website about Nightcrawler being faster than a speeding bullet, so it's not necessary for Spiderman to be able to punch faster than a speeding bullet in order to hit him. If X2 shows Nightcrawler moving faster than a speeding bullet, it appears to be a gross misrepresentation of all previous and subsequent representations of him.

So perhaps we need to specify whether we're talking about the standard Nightcrawler or the faster-than-a-speeding-bullet Nightcrawler.

If Nightcrawler can teleport away with parts of your body, body, he could probably kill almost anyone, unless there were some limits on the ability. For instance, if it's more difficult to teleport away with the head of someone invulnerable than of a normal human. Spiderman seems to fall in between, so maybe that wouldn't be an option for Nightcrawler. But if he can teleport away with anyone's head, then he can kill Spiderman that way.

To anyone's knowledge, have Spiderman and Nightcrawler actually ever fought?
Edit: I did a quick web search, and found that there are a number of sites that host a discussion of Spiderman v. Nightcrawler. As with our thread, opinions fell on both sides. :)

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 12:36 AM
I should have been more clear: the ability to teleport doesn't mean that he can move his body faster.

Now maybe he can move his body faster than Spiderman can. *There's nothing on either website about Nightcrawler being faster than a speeding bullet, so it's not necessary for Spiderman to be able to punch faster than a speeding bullet in order to hit him. If X2 shows Nightcrawler moving faster than a speeding bullet, it appears to be a gross misrepresentation of all previous and subsequent representations of him.

So perhaps we need to specify whether we're talking about the standard Nightcrawler or the faster-than-a-speeding-bullet Nightcrawler.

If Nightcrawler can teleport away with parts of your body, body, he could probably kill almost anyone, unless there were some limits on the ability. For instance, if it's more difficult to teleport away with the head of someone invulnerable than of a normal human. Spiderman seems to fall in between, so maybe that wouldn't be an option for Nightcrawler. *But if he can teleport away with anyone's head, then he can kill Spiderman that way.

To anyone's knowledge, have Spiderman and Nightcrawler actually ever fought?

Not to mine they haven't, *shrugs*. As for the "faster-than-a-speeding-bullet" Nightcrawler, that in fact isn't a mis-representation. He isn't faster, but his teleportation is. And though he may lack spidy-senses, he is trained to be aware of the battefield. He can bamf in and out of this dimension exactly as fast as they portrayed him.

As for the head, notice it said he killed Deadpool in AoA. Deadpool essentially is on par with Wolverine healing-factor wise. Though, the "real" Nightcrawler would never use that tactic. That's something the more demented version of him did...he normally just wears his opponents out to unconciousness by grabbing them and *bamf bamf bamf*, if you will.

edit: How dare I say he poofs! Nightcrawler bamfs! ;)

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 12:41 AM
Not to mine they haven't, *shrugs*. As for the "faster-than-a-speeding-bullet" Nightcrawler, that in fact isn't a mis-representation. He isn't faster, but his teleportation is. And though he may lack spidy-senses, he is trained to be aware of the battefield. He can bamf in and out of this dimension exactly as fast as they portrayed him.

As for the head, notice it said he killed Deadpool in AoA. Deadpool essentially is on par with Wolverine healing-factor wise. Though, the "real" Nightcrawler would never use that tactic. That's something the more demented version of him did...he normally just wears his opponents out to unconciousness by grabbing them and *bamf bamf bamf*, if you will.

edit: How dare I say he poofs! Nightcrawler bamfs! ;)
I don't recall the scene to which you refer, since I've seen the movie only once, when it first came out. It's possible that he's poofing out faster than they can fire, rather than faster than the bullet travels--in other words, that his ability to teleport is faster than a normal human's ability to pull a trigger. Since Spiderman's still faster than a normal human, being able to teleport faster than a normal human can pull a trigger doesn't guarantee that he can teleport faster than Spiderman can punch, especially not repeatedly. Remember also that Nightcrawler tires out from teleporting, so if he tries the "tire them out by teleporting" trick he might just end up being the more tired one.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 12:58 AM
I don't recall the scene to which you refer, since I've seen the movie only once, when it first came out. *It's possible that he's poofing out faster than they can fire, rather than faster than the bullet travels--in other words, that his ability to teleport is faster than a normal human's ability to pull a trigger. *Since Spiderman's still faster than a normal human, being able to teleport faster than a normal human can pull a trigger doesn't guarantee that he can teleport faster than Spiderman can punch, especially not repeatedly. Remember also that Nightcrawler tires out from teleporting, so if he tries the "tire them out by teleporting" trick he might just end up being the more tired one.

I seriously doubt that. Yes, he tires, but not very quickly. He's specifically trained himself and his body (naturally attuned to the process already) to do so. It's a virtual guaruntee that anyone he uses the "tiring out" trick on will at least end up 10 times more exhausted than he is (It's spiderman...not Apocalypse).

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 01:29 AM
I seriously doubt that. Yes, he tires, but not very quickly. He's specifically trained himself and his body (naturally attuned to the process already) to do so. It's a virtual guaruntee that anyone he uses the "tiring out" trick on will at least end up 10 times more exhausted than he is (It's spiderman...not Apocalypse).
yes, but he's the one using up the energy by teleporting. I could maybe see him making a normal human more tired, but not Spiderman. I just don't find that a credible tactic.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 01:36 AM
yes, but he's the one using up the energy by teleporting. I could maybe see him making a normal human more tired, but not Spiderman. I just don't find that a credible tactic.

Be that as it may, it's what he's done in battle vs. other mutants in the comics :P. It's seemed to have been effective then. It also does not take much energy of his own at all to "open" the portal. It's the traveling through the other dimension that is exhausting. The process is triggered by as little as a small chemical reaction in his brain, and the portal is nearly always active, absorbing the light around him. It takes greater concentration for him to teleport the extra mass, yes, but the "extra mass" will not be nearly as tolerant to the process as he is.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-27, 02:16 AM
Spiderman, hands down. I love Kurt, but his agility and speed are 100% due to his training as a circus acrobat. He functions within human limits, impressive though he is.

Spiderman, on the other hand, is faster, stronger and more agile than any human could ever be. Not to mention that rapid-fire teleporting will wear Nightcrawler out. He might be able to teleport in quick and get in a few cheap shots in, but there's no way he could seriously damage Parker (unless maybe he had a sword--but Nightcrawler doesn't kill in the first place.)

Eventually though, Nightcrawler would wear out and after that Spidey could knock him out with a well-placed punch or a shot of impact webbing.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-27, 04:01 AM
I have to agree with Holy Nugat on all but one point

I can't tell if this is a joke of some kind or a weird typo... either way, it made me smile. :)

KayJay
2006-06-27, 04:38 AM
I'm pretty sure that Spiderman would win in his current state- his spidersense would be able to detect even nightcrawler's teleports, allowing him to predict where Nightcrawler appears. The ability is pretty much precognition, so the element of surprise is kind of lost when nightcrawler teleports, unless he uses it to escape and not to attack... and even then, Peter has had a power boost to his senses with this "Other" storyline... He might still be able to track him anyway with his spidersenses even when it isn't used offensively.

The_Pyre
2006-06-27, 05:37 AM
There's a part in Secret Wars dealing with this stuff. Spiderman comes across the X-Men planning to leave the fortress to join Magneto, and Xavier detects him eavesdropping. Spiderman drops down from the rafters, engages the X-Men in a hit-and-run fight*, disabling NC with a well-placed spray of webbing and generally making a fool of the X-Team before getting away to warn Reed Richards.

"I'll catch him! I'm every bit as fast and agile as he is!" - Nightcrawler
"Not on the best day of your life!" - Spiderman

Of course, even Marvel is notorious for dumbing down certain characters every now and then. The Wasp manages to beat the crap out of the X-Men later in the series (again in a hit-and-run maneuver).

*Fight a bit, then run away

Emperor Tippy
2006-06-27, 06:42 AM
Meh. Spiderman won the above fight do to plot. He was supposed to win therefor he did.

Now it has to be established which spiderman and which nightcrawler.


And in what enviroment?

Say a wide open field and its most definatly Nightcrawler, now NYC might go to spidey.

EDIT: And I pick nightcrawler. He can avoid the webs, (im using the good nightcrawler) he can bamf in and out so fast that spidey couldn't hope to land a blow (random bamfing all around spidey, he can bamf aroudn spidey so fast that he could punch him preety much continiously without being hit, and finialy if Kurt every grabs on to spidey its over (bamf straight up repetedly until hes about 12,000 feet up, then just wack spidey as he falls (spidey cant dodge then))

KayJay
2006-06-27, 07:53 AM
firstly, random teleporting doesn't work when Spiderman can predict randomness through his spidersense. It's not even remotely fooled by that, as it doesn't work by extrapolating where his enemy is next or anything, it just works on sensing danger.

Secondly, I doubt Nightcrawler could really hold onto Spiderman for long enough to teleport that far into the air... especially given the fact that Spiderman would just knock out someone holding onto him. You may be using the good nightcrawler, but you seem to be using an incompetent Spiderman.

Emperor Tippy
2006-06-27, 08:12 AM
has anyone without super speed every landed a punch on spidey? If the answer is yes (which it is) then Nightcrawler woudl be able to do it. Spidey might even know the punch is coming but Nightcrawler bamfs faster than spideys reflexes and spidey can only dodge so many.

EDIT: Yes but it would sense danger from every direction almsot at once and become essentially overloaded with continious danger. Kurt bamfs at the speed of thought (next to instantanious) and even a single punch after each bamf would register as danger. Before spidey can respond the next punch is occurign on the other side of him.

All Nightcrawler has to do is grab spidey for an instant. Based on how fast he has been shown to bamf, Kurt could have spidey that high up in less than a second.

Ing
2006-06-27, 08:27 AM
the teleporting other people into submission trick doesn't tire them...not in the sense that it physicly uses energy, the multiple reappeances jsut nausiate and over stimulate them.

KayJay
2006-06-27, 08:39 AM
has anyone without super speed every landed a punch on spidey? If the answer is yes (which it is) then Nightcrawler woudl be able to do it. Spidey might even know the punch is coming but Nightcrawler bamfs faster than spideys reflexes and spidey can only dodge so many.

EDIT: Yes but it would sense danger from every direction almsot at once and become essentially overloaded with continious danger. Kurt bamfs at the speed of thought (next to instantanious) and even a single punch after each bamf would register as danger. Before spidey can respond the next punch is occurign on the other side of him.

All Nightcrawler has to do is grab spidey for an instant. Based on how fast he has been shown to bamf, Kurt could have spidey that high up in less than a second.


Again, Spidey's reflexes don't need to be amazing because Spider-sense is PRECOGNITION. He's not reacting to moves, at all. Even if the shot comes out of nowhere, the danger registers to him before it happens. all he needs to do is punch the person when he knows their general direction, which is easy to do with Spidersense. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to dodge things like bullets, as he is NOT as fast as a bullet.
Plus, you need to actually take time to punch something- arm retraction and the like. He's not really going to be moving that fast if he wants to land punches that are any more than love taps. And it's all to do with his reflexes to determine whether he will get hit by Spiderman, and I think Spiderman's are much faster.

the fight would go something like this:
Nightcrawler teleports behind him, Spidey's spidersense kicks in and he senses danger behind him. he swings his fist blindly behind him, and it connects with Nightcrawler's jaw the instant he reappears, before he's gotten his bearings. Game over, thanks for playing.

Finwe
2006-06-27, 10:37 AM
has anyone without super speed every landed a punch on spidey? If the answer is yes (which it is) then Nightcrawler woudl be able to do it. Spidey might even know the punch is coming but Nightcrawler bamfs faster than spideys reflexes and spidey can only dodge so many.

EDIT: Yes but it would sense danger from every direction almsot at once and become essentially overloaded with continious danger. Kurt bamfs at the speed of thought (next to instantanious) and even a single punch after each bamf would register as danger. Before spidey can respond the next punch is occurign on the other side of him.

All Nightcrawler has to do is grab spidey for an instant. Based on how fast he has been shown to bamf, Kurt could have spidey that high up in less than a second.


He can bamf as fast as he can think, but he can only punch as fast as a human.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 02:12 PM
Spiderman, hands down. *I love Kurt, but his agility and speed are 100% due to his training as a circus acrobat. *He functions within human limits, impressive though he is.

Spiderman, on the other hand, is faster, stronger and more agile than any human could ever be. *Not to mention that rapid-fire teleporting will wear Nightcrawler out. *He might be able to teleport in quick and get in a few cheap shots in, but there's no way he could seriously damage Parker (unless maybe he had a sword--but Nightcrawler doesn't kill in the first place.)

Eventually though, Nightcrawler would wear out and after that Spidey could knock him out with a well-placed punch or a shot of impact webbing. *

Wrong, Nightcrawler's physiology both allows him to twist and use his body in any way desirable, but his strength, speed, and agility are said to in fact exceed a normal trained human's, though not approach superhuman levels. Spiderman has moderate super spidy-strength, but he has no sort of superhuman speed. Just because he can ANTICIPATE attacks doesn't mean he can dodge them. Just look at any fight he's ever been in to see that once the craziness starts he often gets whacked a few. Nightcrawler is fast (+teleporting) and strong, and could definitely hurt him. Nightcrawler "exits" with as much momentum as he goes in, so well placed strategy could have him bamf to one side, starting a whollop, and pop to the other before Peter can move finishing it off.

Smashymcsmash
2006-06-27, 02:42 PM
There's a part in Secret Wars dealing with this stuff. Spiderman comes across the X-Men planning to leave the fortress to join Magneto, and Xavier detects him eavesdropping. Spiderman drops down from the rafters, engages the X-Men in a hit-and-run fight*, disabling NC with a well-placed spray of webbing and generally making a fool of the X-Team before getting away to warn Reed Richards.

"I'll catch him! I'm every bit as fast and agile as he is!" - Nightcrawler
"Not on the best day of your life!" - Spiderman


Actually Spidey chumped them all but then got taken out by the prof. AT the time it made sense because most of the present X-men were just starting out but Spidey had been webslinging for years. Of course since then most of the X-men have aged about 10 years and Spidey has aged about 2 so who can say what would happen now.

I would defiately agree that Spidey vs Kurt would end with one bamf, one punch and an unconcious fuzzy elf.

Hoorex
2006-06-27, 03:02 PM
I love this debate, I got to say! NC and Spidy are my favorites sides deadpool of all time. But anyway, Spidy has got wits! He smartmouths the badguys all the time! lol, but anyway.

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-27, 03:15 PM
An analog of the Spider-Man vs. Nightcrawler fight can be viewed in the movie Sin City.

If you've seen the film and you don't know what I'm talking about then you may well be beyond help.

Runolfr
2006-06-27, 03:38 PM
The wall-crawlers clash! Who will win?

Well, Nightcrawler has more or less normal strength and durability.

Spiderman has superhuman strength and durability sufficient to lift several tons and take direct hits from superhuman foes like Scorpion and Rhino and keep fighting.

The practical result of this comparison is that while it will be almost equally difficult for one to land a blow on the other, Spidey really only needs to connect once, while Nightcrawler will have to hit Spidey repeatedly to have much effect.

Advantage: Spiderman

TheSilverKnight
2006-06-27, 03:53 PM
There is alot of argument relying on spidermans Spidy-sence and it won't help him that much. I have read the comics and watched the show for many many years and the extent of his spider sence is usually only to the first sign of danger or when there is a few seconds between one action and the next. In fact spideman get his ass kicked by the villans in his comics all the time and none of them are super fast in fact his slowest enemy Rhino hit Spidy with his charge attack all the time.

The fact is that Nightcrawler can teleport so fast that spidy sence won't help him dogde it.

Also everyone is saying the teleporting will itre him out. A shot teleport will make him as tired as you or me hoping up and down for half a second where as a long teleport will be the equivelent of running or jumping half that distance so a buch of quick teleports is just like hopping up and down that many times.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 04:01 PM
Well, Nightcrawler has more or less normal strength and durability.

Spiderman has superhuman strength and durability sufficient to lift several tons and take direct hits from superhuman foes like Scorpion and Rhino and keep fighting.

The practical result of this comparison is that while it will be almost equally difficult for one to land a blow on the other, Spidey really only needs to connect once, while Nightcrawler will have to hit Spidey repeatedly to have much effect.

Advantage: Spiderman

I'm sorry, but Spiderman is actually not THAT strong. Just look at any of the fights he's been in. He has superhuman level stength, but he's far below many of the others of that level. Besides, Nightcrawler has often fought those vastly stronger than him and come out just fine. He's known for his abilitiy to avoid hits, and it's not like he can't take a few. I believe Spidey will have a harder time hitting NC than vice versa (assuming Spidey didn't get the jump/first hit in, but still...).

And actually, someone mentioned that if the fight was in NYC Spidey may have the advantage, but if was in a dark corner of NYC NC will have a 'bit of an advantage as well. He can blend nearly entirely into shadows + teleporting, so though Spidey may sense him he'll have a hard time seeing him.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 05:19 PM
I can't tell if this is a joke of some kind or a weird typo... either way, it made me smile. :)


Heehee! You weren't supposed to be able to tell. ;D

Edit: Ok, the Marvel website says that Nightcrawler has merely human reflexes. Sure, Spiderman gets hit occasionally by a merely human punch, but then so does Superman. If the writers always used all the superpowers they've given their superheroes, they'd have a lot of trouble challenging the superheroes. But for purposes of these threads, it seems unfair to deny the superheroes their superpowers. So Spiderman anticipates Nightcawler's appearances and punches him as soon as he appears. Nightcrawler can't take very many superpowered punches (Spiderman apparently can toss cars these days) so either Spiderman knocks out Nightcrawler or Nightcrawler teleports away. Nightcrawler might be cool, but he's just not as powerful as Spiderman.

bartak_the_healer
2006-06-27, 06:14 PM
NightCrawler has my vote!!! :) *mainly because *he just kicks major butt!! * that and he can teleport all around spidey and spidermans spider sense probably wouldnt work after nc teleported around him enough


Edit: or at least it wouldnt work as well yes it gives him the power to see punches/hits coming but would it be as effective if his oppenent is always in a different spot

North
2006-06-27, 06:22 PM
The fuzzy blue elf is awesome. But Spidey be taking this one.
Spidersense gives Peter the precog he will nedd to tag Crawler. And for a guy who can bench press cars all he'll need is one hit. Nightcrawler has a glass jaw, hell crumple.
It might take a few minutes but Spidermans damage soak is way greater. He can take punches from guys wayyyy stronger then nightcrawler

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-27, 06:33 PM
According to canon (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, circa 1986), Spider-Man can press ten tons. Ten tons. Marvel's upper level human limit, reserved for characters of pinnacle but not superhuman strength, is around 800 pounds. That classification has been reserved for Captain America, Wolverine, and others of that caliber. As a longtime reader of Spider-Man (twenty-four years), I know very well that Spider-Man pulls his punches against any enemy who is not armored or otherwise equipped to survive massive damage. And while different writers tend to downplay Spider-Man's raw physical strength, it doesn't make him any less powerful.

Moreover, due to the recent revision/boosting of Spider-Man's powers in the storyline "The Other", Spider-Man now boasts greater physical attributes as well as a vastly improved spider-sense, nightvision, and toxic stingers that emerge from his forearms.

In the last ten years, all that Nightcrawler has gotten is a sword.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nightcrawler and his teleportation ability is impressive, particularly his fusillade attack. However, Spider-Man's spider-sense, especially given its recent upgrade, will render Nightcrawler vulnerable to that one spider-strength punch necessary for his defeat.

Sorry folks. If you want a better matchup for Nightcrawler, you might consider Daredevil.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 07:05 PM
According to canon (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, circa 1986), Spider-Man can press ten tons. *Ten tons. *Marvel's upper level human limit, reserved for characters of pinnacle but not superhuman strength, is around 800 pounds. *That classification has been reserved for Captain America, Wolverine, and others of that caliber. *As a longtime reader of Spider-Man (twenty-four years), I know very well that Spider-Man pulls his punches against any enemy who is not armored or otherwise equipped to survive *massive damage. *And while different writers tend to downplay Spider-Man's raw physical strength, it doesn't make him any less powerful.

Moreover, due to the recent revision/boosting of Spider-Man's powers in the storyline "The Other", Spider-Man now boasts greater physical attributes as well as a vastly improved spider-sense, nightvision, and toxic stingers that emerge from his forearms.

In the last ten years, all that Nightcrawler has gotten is a sword.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nightcrawler and his teleportation ability is impressive, particularly his fusillade attack. *However, Spider-Man's spider-sense, especially given its recent upgrade, will render Nightcrawler vulnerable to that one spider-strength punch necessary for his defeat.

Sorry folks. *If you want a better matchup for Nightcrawler, you might consider Daredevil.

I still can't believe that you Spidey-fans believe his Spidey-sense is the be all end all ability of this fight, allowing Spiderman to easily give NC a nice whollop. Spiderman has been in countless fights wil speedy villains and almost always has a 'bit of trouble hitting the mark. I have no idea what this "recent upgrade" is, and I really don't care. We aren't talking about obscure storylines that no one knows about. We're talking about the normal, generally accepted Spiderman. It wouldn't take NC very long at all to confuse Spidey's senses, or at least to get ahead of his reactions. Spidey does not have super speed. Spidey/Quicksilver combination might be able to hit NC easily, but that's not what Spidey is.

Also, as I've noted, Spiderman isn't the only "pulling punches," as it were. If we give them full deadly use of their abilities (besides a motivation to be fighting Spiderman), pop goes Spiderman's head (Ie. Deadpool in AoA). I'd definitely put my money on the Blue crawler then, but we both know neither of them would probably be that cruel in a fight.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 07:14 PM
According to canon (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, circa 1986), Spider-Man can press ten tons. Ten tons. Marvel's upper level human limit, reserved for characters of pinnacle but not superhuman strength, is around 800 pounds. That classification has been reserved for Captain America, Wolverine, and others of that caliber. As a longtime reader of Spider-Man (twenty-four years), I know very well that Spider-Man pulls his punches against any enemy who is not armored or otherwise equipped to survive massive damage. And while different writers tend to downplay Spider-Man's raw physical strength, it doesn't make him any less powerful.

Moreover, due to the recent revision/boosting of Spider-Man's powers in the storyline "The Other", Spider-Man now boasts greater physical attributes as well as a vastly improved spider-sense, nightvision, and toxic stingers that emerge from his forearms.

In the last ten years, all that Nightcrawler has gotten is a sword.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nightcrawler and his teleportation ability is impressive, particularly his fusillade attack. However, Spider-Man's spider-sense, especially given its recent upgrade, will render Nightcrawler vulnerable to that one spider-strength punch necessary for his defeat.

Sorry folks. If you want a better matchup for Nightcrawler, you might consider Daredevil.
Good research, Jack. Despite a couple of holdouts to the contrary, it looks like Spiderman wins this one. :D

Idiotbox90
2006-06-27, 07:44 PM
Also, as I've noted, Spiderman isn't the only "pulling punches," *as it were. If we give them full deadly use of their abilities (besides a motivation to be fighting Spiderman), pop goes Spiderman's head (Ie. Deadpool in AoA). I'd definitely put my money on the Blue crawler then, but we both know neither of them would probably be that cruel in a fight.

Has Nightcrawler ever used that ability in the normal timeline? Everyone was usually stronger in AoA (except Deadpool, he's had his brain blown up before twice in one day and kept on ticking.) But really, this fight will end up with either Nightcrawler or Spiderman fleeing. Nightcrawler won't be able to hit Spiderman enough to do any real damage and Spiderman won't be able to hit Nightcrawler much at all.

TheSilverKnight
2006-06-27, 08:52 PM
In the long run if we gave this decision to the big man Stan Lee Spidy would win because he has already admitted that Spidy is his favorite creation.

I played a game of Hero clicks and matched various Spidys against different NC's and NC toped out most of the time based off of diffrent stragties.

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 09:25 PM
In the long run if we gave this decision to the big man Stan Lee Spidy would win because he has already admitted that Spidy is his favorite creation.

I played a game of Hero clicks and matched various Spidys against different NC's and NC toped out most of the time based off of diffrent stragties.
But didn't the Hulk beat Spiderman?

Idiotbox90
2006-06-27, 09:29 PM
But didn't the Hulk beat Spiderman?



Spiderman got him to change back to Bruce Banner. That's neither a win nor a loss.

AmoDman
2006-06-27, 09:44 PM
Spiderman got him to change back to Bruce Banner. That's neither a win nor a loss.


Well, it wasn't until Spiderman SPANKED his ass, w00t! ...Okay, I made that part up. But back to the bout!

CelestialStick
2006-06-27, 09:51 PM
Well, it wasn't until Spiderman SPANKED his ass, w00t! ...Okay, I made that part up. But back to the bout!
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. ;)

Hoorex
2006-06-27, 10:13 PM
Sides another reason Spidy would win is cause hes used to being solo...NC always has Collosus to back him up....or Wolverine

KayJay
2006-06-28, 02:34 AM
Sides another reason Spidy would win is cause hes used to being solo...NC always has Collosus to back him up....or Wolverine
If we're talking about friends, then Spiderman has hung around commonly with Stephen Strange or the Avengers ::)


Just because he can ANTICIPATE attacks doesn't mean he can dodge them. Just look at any fight he's ever been in to see that once the craziness starts he often gets whacked a few. Nightcrawler is fast (+teleporting) and strong, and could definitely hurt him. Nightcrawler "exits" with as much momentum as he goes in, so well placed strategy could have him bamf to one side, starting a whollop, and pop to the other before Peter can move finishing it off.
He doesn't anticipate the attacks at all. Spidersense isn't a reflex thing, it's pretty much predicting the future. That's how he dodges stuff that happens at speeds he shouldn't be able to dodge, like a gun. He doesn't move faster than the gun, he moves before it has even gone off. Spiderman might get whacked when there are lots of villains, but this is one enemy with one fist. No matter how fast he is, I can't see his spider senses being overloaded. In fact, given the situations he's been in, I think he'd find it pretty boring.

Emperor Tippy
2006-06-28, 03:18 AM
The point is he can know the attack will happen and dodge it but the next attack is allready coming. Were does spidey dodge to when every secodn he has potenially 4 or so attacks comign at him from different directions: he can't run, he can't websling away, he can hope to hit Kurt but its iffy weather that would allow Kurt to teleport him and if it did then spidey becomes screwed.

TheSilverKnight
2006-06-28, 04:09 AM
Is there any fighting game out there with the both of them if so run a cpu vs cpu 100 times ;D .

If not some one make one with fighter creator and have it run that same thing.

And yes I do know just how SIMPLE that is to do.

KayJay
2006-06-28, 04:15 AM
The point is he can know the attack will happen and dodge it but the next attack is allready coming. Were does spidey dodge to when every secodn he has potenially 4 or so attacks comign at him from different directions: he can't run, he can't websling away, he can hope to hit Kurt but its iffy weather that would allow Kurt to teleport him and if it did then spidey becomes screwed.
Only one attack comes at a time for the reason that he is actually only one person. Once his attack connects, then he might be able to launch another one, but the attacks themself are one at a time. he can't teleport individual limbs or anything to punch people, so you aren't getting 4 attacks from different directions at all. you're getting one attack at a direction that Spiderman can predict with spidersense.

Emperor Tippy
2006-06-28, 04:19 AM
its more. 1 attack, teh instant it is thrown and misses bmaf to somewere else and attack again. Say spidey jumps left to dodge the attack form the right, kurt bamfs to the left of spidey and punches. Kurts bamf is faster than spidey can move and Kurt is just about at the peak of "human" agility if not somewhat superhuman in hsi agility (depends on which version).

KayJay
2006-06-28, 04:35 AM
At any one time it IS one attack. You're playing Spiderman as someone who is just going to defend- he's not. He's going to predict where he is, not to dodge, but to break Nightcrawler's jaw the instant he appears, before his reflexes manage to even register that anything has happened. His reflexes are very much in the human range, Spiderman's is in the metahuman range.

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-28, 01:32 PM
I still can't believe that you Spidey-fans believe his Spidey-sense is the be all end all ability of this fight, allowing Spiderman to easily give NC a nice whollop. Spiderman has been in countless fights wil speedy villains and almost always has a 'bit of trouble hitting the mark. I have no idea what this "recent upgrade" is, and I really don't care. We aren't talking about obscure storylines that no one knows about. We're talking about the normal, generally accepted Spiderman. It wouldn't take NC very long at all to confuse Spidey's senses, or at least to get ahead of his reactions. Spidey does not have super speed. Spidey/Quicksilver combination might be able to hit NC easily, but that's not what Spidey is.

Also, as I've noted, Spiderman isn't the only "pulling punches," as it were. If we give them full deadly use of their abilities (besides a motivation to be fighting Spiderman), pop goes Spiderman's head (Ie. Deadpool in AoA). I'd definitely put my money on the Blue crawler then, but we both know neither of them would probably be that cruel in a fight.

I'm not any more of a Spidey fan than a Nightcrawler fan. I just happen to think that Spidey would win this one. As for 'not caring' about obscure storylines, I'm afraid that you're just one step behind the current issues. They are accepted as canon and Spider-Man can be seen in the new Civil War storyline retaining the powers gained in "The Other".

I would disagree a little bit about super speed as well. Okay, Spidey isn't technically a speedster, but his reflexes coupled with his spider-sense have prevented him getting shot about a zillion times. In fact one million of those zillion times occur in one issue (Spider-Man #23). Now, I'm not saying that Nightcrawler can't get in a few hits. Far from it! But if you're talking about the kind of go-for-broke, this guy's got to go down battle that I think you're talking about, then once Spidey stops screwing around, he'll mess NC up real nice.

Look at that, I didn't even bring up his Iron Spider suit....

Emperor Tippy
2006-06-28, 01:34 PM
No they arn't. Were does it say spidey has super or meta human reflexes. And Spidey sense works like "danger from the right" not "Someone is about to appear at X position and attempt to punch you". It is stated in the x-men comics that Kurt has almsot peak human agility and reflexes.

And as fast as spideys reflexes and attacks are, are they faster than a thought? Thats all the time Kurt requires to bamf to the other side of spidey or even just about a foot to the side and grab his arm.

Finwe
2006-06-28, 01:35 PM
The point is he can know the attack will happen and dodge it but the next attack is allready coming. Were does spidey dodge to when every secodn he has potenially 4 or so attacks comign at him from different directions: he can't run, he can't websling away, he can hope to hit Kurt but its iffy weather that would allow Kurt to teleport him and if it did then spidey becomes screwed.


Kurt can only punch spiderman while bamfing as fast as he could punch spiderman if he were standing right in front of him. That means he could give spidey a good punch every couple seconds, at most.

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-28, 01:35 PM
Spidersense isn't a reflex thing, it's pretty much predicting the future.

This is also true, and it also has some quasi-psychic roots. How many times has a villain in plainclothes gone by Peter Parker and set off his spider-sense? Countless, actually. And as Jim Shooter said in several lettercols during his reign as King Webhead, over the years Spider-Man has learned to refine his spider-sense with greater accuracy, just as Nightcrawler has gradually learned to bamf without it draining him as severely as it did in times past.

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-28, 01:40 PM
No they arn't. Were does it say spidey has super or meta human reflexes.

Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe Vol. 1 #10, 1983.

Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe Vol. 2 #12, 1986.

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol. 4: Spider-Man 2004.

KayJay
2006-06-29, 04:43 AM
No they arn't. Were does it say spidey has super or meta human reflexes. And Spidey sense works like "danger from the right" not "Someone is about to appear at X position and attempt to punch you". It is stated in the x-men comics that Kurt has almsot peak human agility and reflexes.

And as fast as spideys reflexes and attacks are, are they faster than a thought? Thats all the time Kurt requires to bamf to the other side of spidey or even just about a foot to the side and grab his arm.

He is a metahuman, and it manifests physically. By definition, I'd say his reflexes are metahuman, and at no point does he get portrayed as having human reflexes. spidersense is a lot more accurate than "danger on the right"- you can tell because that's not really enough to do anything. He can dodge BULLETS with his spidersense alone, so he has to be predicting things before they happen, not intuiting them from the environment. It doesn't kick in only when bullets leave their chambers, it kicks in way before that. The same principle applies to nightcrawler's jumping. He doesn't react to a teleport at all, he reacts before the teleport.
And nightcrawler may be faster than thought, but at the same time, thought isn't that fast, as it is trammeled by your reaction time.

crusk
2006-06-29, 04:23 PM
no way spiterman cant be beet i am just posting this because my little brother loves spiterman and thats all he talks about

lol

Vaynor
2006-06-29, 05:02 PM
I can't believe I'm responding to one of these. Nightcrawler just 'cause he's cooler. ::)
I believe you mean blue-er. Nightcrawler, definitely.

Jack_Banzai
2006-06-29, 05:36 PM
I agree that Nightcrawler is definitely cool, but from a purely objective standpoint, my vote's got to go to Spider-Man. Nightcrawler just doesn't have enough advantages to warrant a victory. Now, an evil version of Nightcrawler is another story. If he were willing to use a sword or teleport-murder powers, that's one thing. But in a straight up fight where one is trying to incapacitate or KO the other, Spidey is the clear winner.

I'm sorry to break it to you Kurt fanboys. I hate shattering illusions.

hatsinger
2006-06-29, 06:32 PM
First: NC, doesn't tires from teleporting. It happened specifically in the X-calibur stories. After and before that, he can teleport how many times an as distant he wishes. Once, to recover the BlackBird he teleported across the USA... The only danger is to teleport inside something solid.

And note the "solid". No problem to teleport underwater. An ti leads to the next topic.

We're admitting a "fair fight": That NC won't teleport some grenades near spidey, that NC won't teleport Spidey 300 miles above and teleport back (leaving the webslinger to fall) and that NC won't teleport spidey to the bottom of the sea or to some wall.

Well, for the argument, I think that NC will win if he grabs spidey and uses the multi teleport sistem or if he fights dirty, but if he fights fair, he will get a problem.

And I believe that if he is plannig to fight fair, teleport to spidey's back isn't smart since he probably doesn't know about the spider's sense.

Ops, but I forgot that he can teleport AND use sword instead of his hands... it would change a lot of things.

The_Pyre
2006-06-30, 12:10 AM
Grabbing onto Spider-Man for any length of time is going to make the fight end badly for NC. Getting into arm's reach of Spider-Man for any length of time is going to have the same consequences (although not as bad).

The swords will give NC a better chance, but how would that help him if he still won't manage to hit Spider-Man due to his New Improved Spider SenseTM?

Beleriphon
2006-06-30, 07:35 AM
I'm going to have to agree that grabbing onto Spiderman without being equall strong, and I don't think Kurt is, will end badly for the grabber.

As for disorientation, I'm pretty sure that Pete has a fairly good sense of his own position and balance given the wild acrobatics that he tends to perform. I don't know how this would affect Kurt's teleport trick.

CelestialStick
2006-06-30, 09:04 PM
They're both cool, but Spiderman has greater strength and faster reflexes. With his Spider-sense of precognition no matter where Nightcawler teleports near Spiderman, Spiderman is punching into that space just as Nightcrawler apears.

TurboNewb
2006-07-01, 04:57 AM
Nightcrawler teleports forward at Spiderman with his sword pointed straight at his heart. The sword materialises in Spiderman, because Nightcrawler teleports at the speed of thought, and no matter how good Spiderman's reflexes are, he can't block that.

Also, Nightcrawler would teleport as soon as he thought of it. Only when he thought of it did the possibility of that happening come into existence. I very much doubt Spiderman can predict danger that doesn't even exist yet, let alone being put into action.

yusaku777
2006-07-01, 05:46 AM
Ok, just read this entire topic.

Spider-man wins.

"But Kurt has swords!"

We're assuming fair fight between the good versions, which means no lethal tactics.

"But Kurt can teleport over and over, appearing on all sides of Spidey, attacking over and over, and never getting tired, or hit!"

Yes, Kurt can bamf again and again, and can attack from all sides, and will land a fair number of blows. He will also be very hard to hit. Pete's spidey sense only goes so far.

BUT

You're ignoring the one hands down, irrefutable power of Spider-man, from day one.

He Doesn't Quit.

Hit him with a hundred punches? He keeps fighting.

Hit him with a car? He keeps fighting.

Bury him under rubble? He keeps fighting.

Shoot him, stab him, break his ribs, blacken his eye, toss him off a roof, and then bury him under a collapsed four story building?

He gets up, and keeps fighting, because Aunt May/MJ/Nearest Victim™ is in trouble, and he can't give up!

If this fight is to the point of "One of them -has- to go down", then it's Kurt. Cause Spidey won't stop. He won't be able to stand up the next day, but he won't stop until he wins.

Any other arguments people can think of to counter that?

Finwe
2006-07-01, 01:19 PM
Nightcrawler teleports forward at Spiderman with his sword pointed straight at his heart. The sword materialises in Spiderman, because Nightcrawler teleports at the speed of thought, and no matter how good Spiderman's reflexes are, he can't block that.

Also, Nightcrawler would teleport as soon as he thought of it. Only when he thought of it did the possibility of that happening come into existence. I very much doubt Spiderman can predict danger that doesn't even exist yet, let alone being put into action.


but... he can, that's what spider-sense is

Steward
2006-07-01, 03:36 PM
because Aunt May/MJ/Nearest Victim™ is in trouble, and he can't give up!

Would Niightcrawler put Aunt May, MJ, or any other people besides Spiderman in physical danger so that Spiderman would have to keep going?

Kish
2006-07-01, 03:40 PM
See, this is why good vs. good fights don't really work. *pictures Spiderman sitting down and saying, "Ow. Okay, you win. Now, what the hell was that about?"*

Steward
2006-07-01, 03:54 PM
See, this is why good vs. good fights don't really work. *pictures Spiderman sitting down and saying, "Ow. Okay, you win. Now, what the hell was that about?"*

"You see, Herr Parker, there are a bunch of insane people on the Internet who derive pleasure from forcing friends and allies to fight to the death for no reason."

"Is that so?"

"Ja."

"Maybe we should go over to their houses and have a very violent discussion about this."

Sol
2006-07-01, 07:19 PM
BUT

You're ignoring the one hands down, irrefutable power of Spider-man, from day one.

He Doesn't Quit.

Hit him with a hundred punches? He keeps fighting.

Hit him with a car? He keeps fighting.

Bury him under rubble? He keeps fighting.

But neither does NC, and you can't really land punches on him, or hit him with a car, or bury him under rubble, because he is smart enough and fast enough to bamf in all of those situations.

Not that spidey is dumb, far from it, he just isn't infinitely fast.

And sure, spidey is stronger, but the fight wouldn't be about strength, it would be about speed, reflexes, and acrobatics. If you throw spidey at a wall, he'll still hit it, and it will still hurt. If you throw NC, he bamfs and kicks you in the face.

A better fight would be NC Vs. Flash.

I think spidey would beat flash, because I don't think flash could get out of the right web. I think flash would beat NC, because he's just as fast, and stronger physically. I think NC would beat spidey, cause there's no way to pin him down, trap him, corner him, or hit him repeatedly.

Dragonmuncher
2006-07-01, 08:25 PM
the fight would go something like this:
Nightcrawler teleports behind him, Spidey's spidersense kicks in and he senses danger behind him. he swings his fist blindly behind him, and it connects with Nightcrawler's jaw the instant he reappears, before he's gotten his bearings. Game over, thanks for playing.

Bingo.

Spidey once fought a guy... The Spot? I think that was his name. Anyway, Spot could control portals with his mind. He filled a space with dozens of portals, and kept punching Spidey from seemingly random directions. Spidey couldn't attack, and he was having a hard time dodging, so he trusted his Spidersense and just punched where he felt the next blow would be coming from.

Same principle applies here. As Nightcrawler teleports in to attack, Spidey's fist is already there. Spidey is much stronger than Nightcrawler, so a few good punches should be able to knock out the blue man.

AmoDman
2006-07-01, 10:49 PM
*I think flash would beat NC, because he's just as fast, and stronger physically.

It's a different topic, but I don't really see where you got the "stronger physically." He can do lots of crazy things with his speed, but he's not extraordinarily strong...

As for the previous poster, that seems a little much to me...it seems as though if (the normal) Spiderman could do that so easily he should never get hit (and we always see him do). Of course, The Spot had to go back into his portals to be gone, Nightcrawler would just be gone. Though, I don't really see an end to this punching duel debate. Half think Spider-sense is way too awsome to be beat, and the other half think NC has proven himself time and again with his abilities (with the addition of him being a proven master trained swordsman) to outmatch it. Though, you all have to admit, that NC wins in a lethal battle. Head/body decapitating/water suffocating/air teleporting/all the other nonesense he could come up with to just straight out kill Parker would hand him the fight, but I agree he wouldn't normally do these things...but would he normally be fighting Parker?

Beleriphon
2006-07-02, 01:10 AM
It's a different topic, but I don't really see where you got the "stronger physically." He can do lots of crazy things with his speed, but he's not extraordinarily strong...


You mean beyond being able to pick up a small car wihtout a whole lot of effort? My understanding is that Pete was very strong, able to lift a several tons with some effort.

Ing
2006-07-02, 01:20 AM
he meant flash....

Beleriphon
2006-07-02, 01:28 AM
he meant flash....




Thats what I get for trying to post after being awake for eighteen hours.

Ulicus
2006-07-02, 02:11 AM
Thwip vs Bamf?

Thwip. Clearly. For the reasons already stated.

Whether we're talking about the "normal" Spider-Man, or the *actual* Spider-Man, Spider-Man wins. In an all out duel in which they're written totally out of character and they're trying to kill each other, Spider-Man *still* wins.

The movie versions might be a better match-up, but 616 Spidey vs 616 NC = a victory for 616 Spidey.

Yeah, Spidey does get hit in the comics - so does NC - this is a versus thread however, and so the presumption is that their abilities are completely unhindered by plot. In such a scenario, what would have been NC's only advantage is cancelled out by Pete's spider-sense.

Emperor Tippy
2006-07-02, 02:26 AM
If we remove any morals and just go straight fight to the death for the fight, kurt wins even with spidey sense. As spideys fist hits Kurt he can bamf the arm off spidey, taking no damage and leaving spidey armless. Do that twice or just bamf straight up and spidey is lost.

Now Kurt wouldn't do the fight to the death thing, in which case Spidey becomes viable because Kurt wont't bamf him to death.


So fight to the death, Kurt wins with no damage taken as he just bamfs spideys body parts away as they touch him, and spidey isn't faster than thought.

A fight that takes into count their unwillingness to kill becomes even or spidey (depends on the version of spidey sense used and how powerful we are making it)

@^ What had been Kurts only disadvantage goes bye and he wins. As stated, pure vs., Kurt would bamf body parts away.

CelestialStick
2006-07-02, 03:56 AM
Bingo.

Spidey once fought a guy... The Spot? I think that was his name. Anyway, Spot could control portals with his mind. He filled a space with dozens of portals, and kept punching Spidey from seemingly random directions. Spidey couldn't attack, and he was having a hard time dodging, so he trusted his Spidersense and just punched where he felt the next blow would be coming from.

Same principle applies here. As Nightcrawler teleports in to attack, Spidey's fist is already there. Spidey is much stronger than Nightcrawler, so a few good punches should be able to knock out the blue man.
Well said. This seems like the most likely outcome. The Spider sense isn't perfect, so it's possible that Kurt would land a surprise punch or two--with medicore human strength--but in relatively short order Spiderman would connect with a superhuman-strength punch and knock poor Nightcawler on his blue touchas. :D

CelestialStick
2006-07-02, 04:09 AM
Thats what I get for trying to post after being awake for eighteen hours.
Just more evidence for why you should surrender the Superman avatar to me and settle for the Batman avatar for yourself. ;)

AmoDman
2006-07-02, 05:17 AM
Yeah, Spidey does get hit in the comics - so does NC - this is a versus thread however, and so the presumption is that their abilities are completely unhindered by plot. In such a scenario, what would have been NC's only advantage is cancelled out by Pete's spider-sense.

Actually Nightcrawler very rarely gets hit...just sayin', be it due to his not being a single main character or just not enough to reason to have him much hurt, he usually pops out of most fights with nary a scratch. He's got skills, yo ;).

TreesOfDeath
2006-07-02, 08:50 AM
Actually Nightcrawler very rarely gets hit...just sayin', be it due to his not being a single main character or just not enough to reason to have him much hurt, he usually pops out of most fights with nary a scratch. He's got skills, yo ;).

He pretty much never fights someone with Spideys reflexes or combat senses

Ulicus
2006-07-02, 03:15 PM
If we remove any morals and just go straight fight to the death for the fight, kurt wins even with spidey sense. As spideys fist hits Kurt he can bamf the arm off spidey, taking no damage and leaving spidey armless. Do that twice or just bamf straight up and spidey is lost.


My understanding of his ability would lead me to believe that he could only bamf the arm off if he got a hold of it - his reflexes verus Spidey's reflexes = that not happening.

Anyway, whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if Stark had fitted Spidey's latest costume with the Antibamfinator. So all's well. :P

Emperor Tippy
2006-07-02, 03:41 PM
He can bamf something that he is touching with him, if I rember that series correctly.

Smashymcsmash
2006-07-02, 04:09 PM
First I am just going to point out that the current continuity Nightcrawler, to my knowledge, has never teleported a body part or just a part of anything. You shouldn't assume that he can do something the much more hardcore and well trained Age of Apocalypse version could. In that universe they were all heinous. Look at AoA Iceman. 616 Kurt has never trained to do that so It's not really Fair to assume that he could just decide to do it without training. Second he never teleported anything inside anyone or anything else and there in no evidence that he could. If that was the case then anyone, spidey or villian could throw a bunch of debris in the spot he appears and "Ahhh I have rocks in my blue fuzzy brain".

Anyway if you go lethal current spidey still has the advantage. "Bamf"- stamp appearing elf in the face with spider-bone-stabby thing.

Finally even if you take away his crazy new wrist pokers and slap in soem evil alernate version of spidey who uses lethal force just image uzis plus spidersense.
Now that is a what if waiting to happen.

I love the elf but it has got to go to ol webs. Yes spidey gets hit sometimes but so does nightcrawler and the fuzzy guy is more often rendered unable to act then spdey. If spidey was mainly in a team book it might be the reverse but what can you do.

nothingclever
2006-07-02, 04:32 PM
its more. 1 attack, teh instant it is thrown and misses bmaf to somewere else and attack again. Say spidey jumps left to dodge the attack form the right, kurt bamfs to the left of spidey and punches. Kurts bamf is faster than spidey can move and Kurt is just about at the peak of "human" agility if not somewhat superhuman in hsi agility (depends on which version).
Dude, the idea of Spiderman getting boxed and completely destroyed without being able to do anything is pretty stupid because guess what, spidersense still has merit.

He gets a few hits on spiderman but then who says the next hit from behind nightcrawler tries to take doesn't just result in being predicted by spidey focusing his senses or just inevitably grabbing a punch anyway and proceeding to judo throw him with super strength breaking his precious super flexible back and tail connected to it?

In multiple instances the two have come to seem roughly equally matched in reflexes and what not anyway.

Nightcrawler needs superspeed to punch multiple times with consistently great force practically at the same time. Period. The end.
There's this thing called physics though they often don't apply.

If Nightcrawler is able to seemingly fire off four punches in different directions almost at the exactly same time then he needs superspeed and without it he'd only be able to hit Spidey with a flurry of pitiful jabs that Spiderman would shrug off.

If Nightcrawler just beats the crap out of every person without super speed or reflexes or whatever then guess what, he's simply being written with a more impressive storyline, maybe just maybe because he isn't all that an influential character in comics to begin with.

And to the guy who obviously favors Nightcrawler and keeps siting a wikipedia reference of him taking Deadpool's head off and complaining about never having heard of Spidey's new upgrade in the comic The Other or whatever, that makes you a hypocrite.

Spidey actually develops new powers and sticks with them. All you can reference is an alternate dimension/timeline of Nightcrawler you presumably haven't even read judging by the way you talk about it.

From Spidey's wiki:
"In recent years, he has developed additional spider-like features including biological web-shooters, and toxic stingers that extend from his forearms."

He's had new cheesy powers for a while, you still only have an alternate timeline referenced in wiki.

"The Age of Apocalypse was a comic book storyline. It was a major event in the Marvel Universe, mostly affecting mutant titles like the X-Men. Although occurring in the alternate universe of Earth-295, it has often had ramifications in the universe of Earth-616, the universe most commonly used in Marvel Comics."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man:_The_Other

"Spider-Man: The Other" is a comic book crossover published by Marvel Comics from October 2005 to January 2006. It is the first Spider-Man crossover since 2001, and takes place in:

* Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #1-4.
* Marvel Knights Spider-Man #19-22.
* The Amazing Spider-Man #525-528.

The new spiderman has a greater variety and in general stronger powers than Nightcrawler. He is Nightcrawler and then some.

GG

Seraph
2006-07-02, 04:34 PM
But didn't the Hulk beat Spiderman?




if he did, it probably has something to do with the fact the Hulk's physical strength increases exponentially the more pissed off he is.

Beleriphon
2006-07-02, 05:02 PM
if he did, it probably has something to do with the fact the Hulk's physical strength increases exponentially the more pissed off he is.


Yeah, and he only needs one really good hit to give Spidey a whomping.

At any rate I'd give this to Spiderman by virtue of Spidersense, and his considerably higher strength and ability to shrug off blows. All he needs is one good clean hit on Kurt, and the elf is down and out.

CelestialStick
2006-07-02, 06:34 PM
My understanding of his ability would lead me to believe that he could only bamf the arm off if he got a hold of it - his reflexes verus Spidey's reflexes = that not happening.

Anyway, whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if Stark had fitted Spidey's latest costume with the Antibamfinator. So all's well. :P



Don't be silly--the Antibamfinator is a person, not a device. ;)

AmoDman
2006-07-03, 12:01 AM
First I am just going to point out that the current continuity Nightcrawler, to my knowledge, has never teleported a body part or just a part of anything. *You shouldn't assume that he *can do something the much more hardcore and well trained Age of Apocalypse version could. *In that universe they were all heinous. *Look at AoA Iceman. *616 Kurt has never trained to do that so It's not really Fair to assume that he could just decide to do it without training. *Second he never teleported anything inside anyone or anything else and there in no evidence that he could. *If that was the case then anyone, spidey or villian could throw a bunch of debris in the spot he appears and "Ahhh I have rocks in my blue fuzzy brain".


Actually, no, there is evidence for all of it. Other teleporters in the normal storyline have been shown to be much more lethal with their ability because they choose to be. It's pretty common sense that NC could teleports someone somewhere and bamf away without them. His more tactic is to teleport without their consent to nauseate them in the first place. These are not new abilities, these are simply things Kurt chooses not to do because of how darned spiffy he is. People are trying to bring in dumb **** that apparently Spiderman is all hyper crazy awsome nowadays. Those are new abilities. It'd be like trying to say Gambit would win in a duel because he can emit poison, alter reality, etc...except that's just a new, idiotic storyline, and the classically established Gambit can't do half of that.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Spiderman gets hit in fights, he gets hit a lot. So unless every comic writer chooses to underplay his abilites, then NC does have a fairly decent chance to land blows on his ass. If he has no prior knowledge of Spiderman's abilites, then I agree Spidey probably would surprise him and beat him (een though NC would probably be able to confuse him more at first with his dissapearing and such at first in this instance). But (in the more likely instance that he does), he'd anticipate his sense and attempt to strategize against it. I don't see any clear winner in that duel w/o it actually happening, because NC is just that good of a nonlethal strategist, whereas Spidey has good abilities to take him out if NC messes up. I argue against Spiderman being a clear winner bar none because of Spidersense and strength, because NC has proven himself time and again to be an excellent master of battle strategy with his abilities.

Serpentine
2006-07-09, 10:49 AM
NC does have a fairly decent chance to land blows on his ass.
That's not very nice. Why would Nightcrawler beat up Spidey's donkey? That's mean.

kolvar
2006-07-10, 09:40 AM
two reasons, why NC would lose:
a) after the first teleporting, Spidey would be constantly on the move, negating NCs mobility advantage
b) NC would be rather annoyed and confused by the constant blubbering of Spidey. He is simply to nice to withstand all the nonsense SM stammers out.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-07-10, 11:23 AM
I had an idea about why Nightcrawler would win, but couldn't back it up until I found this on Wikipedia.

From the entry on the supervillain Spot:

"His preferred method of attack is to surround his opponent with numerous spots, allowing him to punch or kick them from unexpected angles across great distances. This proved very effective against Spider-Man as his spider-sense was unable to detect incoming attacks from another dimension, effectively negating this ability. The same phenomenon was true when Spot flung Spider-Man through a warp and he reappeared in this dimension too close to a wall to dodge."

So I'm pretty sure Nightcrawler could negate Spidey-Sense, land a blow, then do the telesickening thing until Spidey is too sick to move, then knock him out.

Skyserpent
2006-07-29, 05:35 PM
Now I'm not too sure not NC's powers, but let's say that Spidey and Kurt were linked by a long line of Webbing, would Kurts Teleporting bring Pete along for the ride?

Also, Nightcrawlers attacks don't come from the alternate dimension, he does. So Spidey would be able to dodge those things given enough practice, which considering his endurance he would get use to it after a few hits. At whc

Spider
2007-06-18, 11:15 PM
Okay, I vote Nightcrawla. gotta put this to rest
Spider has his sense... but still gets hit by slow ass villians, if his senses are that great, then he wouldnt EVER be hit. So everyone asked, NC can teleport but he has to react and actually stretch out his arm to punch and Spidy is faster and would see it coming. In NC comics, a plane is falling and they ask him why doesnt he just teleport them to the ground, he says the potential energy that their falling with would still apply once they teleport. So if NC punches before his teleportation, then teleports, he would already have the potential speed in his arm so by the time he actually teleports to where he wants, it would be expanded and just hit Spidy. The REAL prob is, would his punches actually hurt Spiderman, I give Spider fans that one, BUT! If nightcrawler teleports 100 feet in the air, gains speed then teleports on Spiderman's head, the potential energy would just Squish Spiderman like a bug (corny I know). If you all say, Spidersense would see it coming... If he gets hit by the Hulk or Rhino, then NC can hit him no sweat. All of you saying Peter is cooler... He was a nerd before Spiderman, and Nightcrawler has always been Nightcrawler. Spiderman made Peter while NC has always been Tha real boy of blue.
P.S. the thing I ALWAYs thought was... If Nightcrawler teleported where Spidy randomly swang his fist... Would Spidy's fist breakoff inside NC's stomach? O.o

kpenguin
2007-06-19, 12:10 AM
Let's see, from the Marvel site (numbers outside of parentheses are official ,numbers in parentheses are fan voted):

Spiderman:
Intelligence: level 6 (6)
Strength: level 5 (6)
Speed: level 3 (6)
Durability: level 3 (5)
Energy Projection: level 3 (3)
Fighting Skills: level 5 (6)

Nightcrawler:
Intelligence: level 1 (4)
Strength: level 1 (4)
Speed: level 1 (6)
Durability: level 1 (4)
Energy Projection: level 1 (3)
Fighting Skills: 1 (6)

Mmmm... in pure stats, Spidey seems to have the advantage.

sealemon
2007-06-19, 02:20 AM
I'm a HUGE NC fan, but I'd still give it to Spidey. On top of all his other powers, (STR, Webs, Agility, Spider Sense), he has an intangible power that never sems to get listed, but has been shown time and time again: He can take a TON of punishment before getting KO'd.

For example, he fought Quicksilver once, and took dozens of blows to the head before he was able to predict QS's trajectory and closeline the guy. To me, that tells me that NC's Multi-teleport-and-hit-a-guy-over-and-over just wouldn't work. NC has standard strength; Spiderman could take punches from him all day long and keep swinging. All he has to do is land ONE good shot, and NC is TKO.

Also, see Secret Wars for the one panel fight that Spidey and NC DID do; Seems that NC cannot in fact teleport out of Parker's webbing.

The only chance I see for NC would be his tele-stun manuever, and I would lay money down that Spidey could punch him out as he first bamph's in--his Spider sense doesn't seem to have any real limitations.

Tallis
2007-06-19, 03:59 AM
Nightcrawler and Spider-Man have fought. Spidey won. Spidey is even more powerful now. Nightcrawler still has the same powers.
Spidey wins.
Nightcrawler is a great character, he's a very valuable part of a team, but he's not going to beat Spider-Man one-on-one unless he gets very lucky. Power for power Spider-Man has him outclassed.

....
2007-06-19, 07:48 PM
There's a part in Secret Wars dealing with this stuff. Spiderman comes across the X-Men planning to leave the fortress to join Magneto, and Xavier detects him eavesdropping. Spiderman drops down from the rafters, engages the X-Men in a hit-and-run fight*, disabling NC with a well-placed spray of webbing and generally making a fool of the X-Team before getting away to warn Reed Richards.

"I'll catch him! I'm every bit as fast and agile as he is!" - Nightcrawler
"Not on the best day of your life!" - Spiderman

Of course, even Marvel is notorious for dumbing down certain characters every now and then. The Wasp manages to beat the crap out of the X-Men later in the series (again in a hit-and-run maneuver).

*Fight a bit, then run away

Yeah, that fight in Secret Wars was rigged. Peter webs Kurt into place and all Kurt does is gasp and struggle.

JDMSJR
2007-06-20, 01:37 AM
Here is my source
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/n/nightcrawler.htm

Strength level: Nightcrawler possesses at least the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in intensive regular exercise.

Other abilities: Nightcrawler is a superb athlete and an Olympic-class acrobat. He can do a standing high jump of about 8 feet. He is skilled at hand-to-hand combat and is a master at fencing, which he can even perform with his tail.

The longer the distance over which Nightcrawler teleports himself, the harder and more exhausting it is for him to make the teleportational "jump." It is easier for him to teleport between north and south (along Earth's magnetic lines of force) than it is for him to teleport between east and west (against the magnetic lines). Under optimal conditions, teleporting only himself and his costume, Nightcrawler can displace himself a distance of about 2 miles east-to-west, and up to 3 miles north-to-south. Making a vertical teleportation upwards is difficult and dangerous. Nightcrawler has made a vertical teleportational "jump" of 2 miles by pushing himself to his physical limits.



http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/s/spiderman.htm

Spider-Man's overall metabolic efficiency has been greatly increased, and the composition of his skeleton, inter-connected tissues, and nervous system have all been enhanced. Spider-Man's musculature has been augmented so that he can lift (press) about 10 tons. His reflexes are faster than an average human by about a factor of 15 (he is often able to dodge bullets, if he is far enough away).

Spider-Man possesses an extrasensory "danger" or "spider" sensewhich warns him of potential immediate danger by tingling sensation in the back of his skull. The precise nature of this sense is unknown. It appears to be a simultaneous clairvoyant responce to a wide variety of phenomena (everything from falling safes to speeding bullets to thrown punches), which has given several hundredths of a second's warning, which is sufficient time for his reflexes to allow him to avoid injury. The sense also can create a general resonse on the order of several minutes: he cannot discern the nature of the threat by the sensation. He can, however, discern the severity of the danger by the strength of his response to it. Spider-Man's fighting style incorporates the advantage that his "spidey-sense" provides him.

Looks like Sipderman all the way to me. He is MUCH stronger and MUCH faster.

Tallis
2007-06-20, 10:14 AM
Here is my source

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/s/spiderman.htm

Spider-Man's overall metabolic efficiency has been greatly increased, and the composition of his skeleton, inter-connected tissues, and nervous system have all been enhanced. Spider-Man's musculature has been augmented so that he can lift (press) about 10 tons. His reflexes are faster than an average human by about a factor of 15 (he is often able to dodge bullets, if he is far enough away).

Spider-Man possesses an extrasensory "danger" or "spider" sensewhich warns him of potential immediate danger by tingling sensation in the back of his skull. The precise nature of this sense is unknown. It appears to be a simultaneous clairvoyant responce to a wide variety of phenomena (everything from falling safes to speeding bullets to thrown punches), which has given several hundredths of a second's warning, which is sufficient time for his reflexes to allow him to avoid injury. The sense also can create a general resonse on the order of several minutes: he cannot discern the nature of the threat by the sensation. He can, however, discern the severity of the danger by the strength of his response to it. Spider-Man's fighting style incorporates the advantage that his "spidey-sense" provides him.


Your source is actually a bit dated, the last story referenced is several years old. Since then Spider-Man's powers have been enhanced. I believe he can lift about 15 tons now for instance.
Of course this gives even stronger support to your conclusion, just wanted to point it out.
Spider-Man wins.

Selrahc
2007-06-20, 01:39 PM
Your source is actually a bit dated, the last story referenced is several years old. Since then Spider-Man's powers have been enhanced. I believe he can lift about 15 tons now for instance.

25 tons.

And his reflexes are even faster. And he can do stuff like catch bullets in the palm of his hands, and in a summary of his powers to Mary Jane said that he could dodge automatic fire at point blank range.

....
2007-06-21, 12:58 PM
Here is my source
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/n/nightcrawler.htm
Nightcrawler has made a vertical teleportational "jump" of 2 miles by pushing himself to his physical limits.


They fight on a flat surface and Nightcrawler wins by this alone.

JDMSJR
2007-06-21, 02:40 PM
They fight on a flat surface and Nightcrawler wins by this alone.

Or you can have them fight in a small box that you cannot teleport out of and Spiderman wins.
What's the point of trying to rig the terrain to favor only one person. Considering both of their powers, any fight would probably happen in some kind of urban environment, not in the middle of a corn field. If Nightcrawler teleported him straight up Spiderman could just snag a building with his webs on the way down and turn the fall into a swing. Reguardless of how far up you fall from the max speed you can fall at is about 120 mph. Spiderman could handel the g-forces involved in turning the fall into a swing (he might even be able to handel hitting the ground at 120 if he landed in a good position (on his feet) although that would have to hurt)

Selrahc
2007-06-21, 02:52 PM
Being two miles in the air doesn't beat Spidey anyway.

Dozens and dozens of comics have shown him using his webs as an improvised glider, parachute or web wings.

GoC
2007-06-22, 12:00 PM
A better fight would be NC Vs. Flash.

I think spidey would beat flash, because I don't think flash could get out of the right web.

*ukxl*
#@*&$#@$&@&#&*@$!!!!!!!!!!????

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1989313&postcount=38
One of the most powerful characters in a thread with several gods in it. Deadly super-speed led to country annihilation.

Damionte
2007-06-22, 10:21 PM
Nightcrawler vs Spiderman.

Spiderman:

Although nightcrawler is fast he has never shown any real superhuman strength or stamina. So yes he could keep up with Spiderman, but he can't really hurt him or take a shot from him. He's not fast enough to really frustrate Spiderman. In fact if they're not equal in that regard Spiderman is probably even more naturally agile than Nightcrawler.

Spidey can put down the tough ones like she hulk. Who'm he has beaten in a straight up toe for toe fist fight. Nightcrawler can't handle that kind of punishment.

since they're pretty well balanced in other aspects I have to give it to spidey due to strength and endurance.

Keldin
2007-06-23, 11:46 AM
I remember really enjoying the sequence in Secret Wars when Spider-Man clobbered nearly all the X-Men simultaneously (not sure if Nightcrawler was there, I KNOW Wolverine was and Spidey told him that because of his spidersense he wasn't the least bit afraid of the "pig stickers".) But I digress.

I can't imagine Nightcrawler being able to handle too much pummelling by the web-slinger. That said, if he used the truly brutal trick I once saw him use on Nimrod, if he teleported in, grabbed hold and then teleported away with a chunk of Spiderman's body, that might swing things in his favor as he could just watch Spidey bleed out. Whether he WOULD do that is another question.

And what determines "win" in a fight? I mean, if it's a fight to unconsciousness that's one thing. A fight to the death is another. What about getting away? Spidey could never catch Nightcrawler if all the blue boy did was flee. Terrain has already been mentioned. What are the parameters of the fight? Change them you change the outcome.

Revlid
2007-06-23, 12:28 PM
Whether Nightcrawler would be willing to use Teleportation-Amputation doesn't come into it: he couldn't, because without some kind of extenuating circumstance there is no way he'd be able to lay a hand on the inifitely faster and precognitive Spiderman.

....
2007-06-23, 03:24 PM
Whether Nightcrawler would be willing to use Teleportation-Amputation doesn't come into it: he couldn't, because without some kind of extenuating circumstance there is no way he'd be able to lay a hand on the inifitely faster and precognitive Spiderman.

Yes he could.

Spiderman gets punched all the time. He might be quick, but he's not faster than Nightcrawlers teleport attacks. Have you ever seen NC fight someone? He's in and out in about thirty seconds, landing several blows and leaving them in a stinky cloud of smoke.

If Spiderman messed up one time he'd be missing an arm and dead.

Or, NC could spend a few years preparing himself to only want to give Spiderman a hug. Teleport onto him, and then vanish with his chest. Since all he wanted to do at first was hug Spidey, no Spider Sense. :smallwink:

Selrahc
2007-06-23, 03:56 PM
Spiderman gets punched all the time. He might be quick, but he's not faster than Nightcrawlers teleport attacks. Have you ever seen NC fight someone? He's in and out in about thirty seconds, landing several blows and leaving them in a stinky cloud of smoke.


Nightcrawler is quick. But you know what he isn't quicker than? Bullets. Bullets like the ones Spidey dodges all the fricking time.

If a blow is going to do him serious injury, he dodges it, unless the foe gets really lucky.

Now Nightcrawler is really good, and really quick, so he could probably get a slash in. Maybe a few punches. Certainly he'll find it harder to hit with the sword than with his punches, because the sword will be shown as a bigger threat and so be dodged more.

But he doesn't have a magical cut through anything sword. He doesn't have brutal strength. And he isn't trying to kill anybody, ever. Any wounds he gets on Spidey will be at most deep cuts. Generally he'd get glancing blows, or ineffectual punches. Meanwhile Spidey is in a position where hes moving much much faster, and needs a single punch. And he klnows where that next teleport attack is coming from, so Nightcrawler would Bampf and Spidey would have a fist waiting for him.


Or, NC could spend a few years preparing himself to only want to give Spiderman a hug. Teleport onto him, and then vanish with his chest. Since all he wanted to do at first was hug Spidey, no Spider Sense.

No, very much spider sense. He isn't sensing hostile intent, he is sensing danger.

If the end result of a hug is having a missing chest, then Spideys spider sense will register that hug as "Dangerous as hell" and Spidey will try his hardest to dodge it.

draconic_swine
2007-06-23, 05:56 PM
And what determines "win" in a fight? I mean, if it's a fight to unconsciousness that's one thing. A fight to the death is another. What about getting away? Spidey could never catch Nightcrawler if all the blue boy did was flee. Terrain has already been mentioned. What are the parameters of the fight? Change them you change the outcome.

Good question. In hypothetical situations like this, I'd say any one of killing your opponent, rendering your opponent unconscious or otherwise incapacitating your opponent, or making your opponent flee would count as "winning". I definitely agree with you that Spidey wouldn't be able to keep up with Nightcrawler, but if all Nightcrawler did was run away, then Spidey is the clear winner.


Or, NC could spend a few years preparing himself to only want to give Spiderman a hug. Teleport onto him, and then vanish with his chest. Since all he wanted to do at first was hug Spidey, no Spider Sense. :smallwink:

Or Spidey could spend a few years getting back in Tony Stark's good books, gain access to his labs & resources, and create a piece of technology that blocks Nightcrawler's ability to teleport, then proceed to beat the snot out of him. My point it, statements like these don't really count in a "who would win?" thread, since they change who a character is or give them an ability they don't already have. Fights should be using what the characters are like/have here and now.