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View Full Version : Batman Beyond vs. Spiderman



Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-06-22, 09:02 AM
This is a pretty even matchup, I think. I think Spiderman is stronger than the batsuit's strength enhancements, but of course Terry has a whole slew of options there that Spidey doesn't (I know Spidey has an Iron Man suit now, but that hurts my head so much I don't even want to think about it).

Bonus round: what if it was Ultimate Spiderman vs. first season or so Terry? :P

KayJay
2006-06-22, 10:39 AM
The new Batman isn't much of a thinker, and the old one's main strength WAS thinking, hence all the "blah blah preparation blah blah" arguments.

Edit: I forgot to actually say who I thought the winner was... Spiderman, as Terry is all physical, which is similar to a lot of Spiderman's enemies.

Steward
2006-06-22, 11:16 AM
I think that Spiderman would win. He has the sheer physical ability to overcome Terry's suit, although I do think that it'll be a close fight.

Ing
2006-06-22, 01:09 PM
in a straight up fight batman losses
he wins with preperation

The Glyphstone
2006-06-22, 05:34 PM
in a straight up fight batman losses
he wins with preperation

Except that doesn't apply here...Batman and Batman Beyond are two completely different people, different superheroes.

CelestialStick
2006-06-22, 06:38 PM
I gave the original Batman v. Spiderman to Batman, though I said I thought it was a tough matchup. Peter Parker is supposed to be a genius, so he's got the mental going for him as well as the physical. On the flip side, I'm not sure that Spiderman's supposed to be just all that strong. Terry's suit enhances his strength, and it allows him to actually fly rather than swinging slowly on a rope--or strand of silk--plus he can fire the rockets into Spiderman's face. He's also got a ton of gadgets to blind, entangle or otherwise thwart Spiderman. In the series Batman Beyond he also usually has Bruce on the radio to make suggestions. So I'm going to give it to Batman Beyond, on points. No knockouts here.

Ing
2006-06-22, 08:17 PM
nah spiderman is strong enough to lift small cars over his head and lift one end of a bus up....much stronger than the enhanced Batman one, which just put Terry up to the same level Bruce got to naturall (evidenced by the Joker being able to stand his ground in a fistycuffs match) i'm going with spiderman

TinSoldier
2006-06-22, 09:30 PM
Well the point is that Terry has the real Batman for the preparation. Barring any unforseen problems of communication, Batman prepares and Terry executes.

Batman wins, even if Terry deviates from the plan due to circumstances.

Ing
2006-06-23, 12:31 AM
ah but spiderman is the master of improve (aka winging it) and has proven very able to think on his feat.... so it boils down to the old question superior stratagy or superior adaptability...which wins out

like the old soviot vs American chess matches....

which i might add superior adapatability and innovation eventually won out. pt to spidy



wait which spidy are we doing?

classic
ultimate
wolverine stinger claw super spider?
iron (aka never let the town drunk dress you) spidy?


either way lets look as some points

*Flying: advantage to...no one. spidy's fought enough fliers on a daily basis (such as Volture) that he can counter it and use it agianst them with incredible ease.
*strength: spidy...especally the new totem pole spider man
*mobility and agility: spidy
*equipment: batman...or with the iron suite, tie
*stratagy: batman...dosn't even have to do it himself as he has an old guy to work on it while he focuses 100% on the fight
stealth: Spidy...he can be very sneaky when he needs to be and batman's stealth isn't gonna do much agianst spidy's 6th sense


therefore i give advantage to Spidy...but its a close one

Hoorex
2006-06-23, 12:50 AM
With preperation Spider man would still win. Remember, the kid's a genius....Spider-man is known for losing, and Peter Parker is known for getting some rest and figuring out how to defeat the bad guy.

And without preperation, Spider man would throw a car at him...

CelestialStick
2006-06-23, 01:18 AM
With preperation Spider man would still win. Remember, the kid's a genius....Spider-man is known for losing, and Peter Parker is known for getting some rest and figuring out how to defeat the bad guy.

And without preperation, Spider man would throw a car at him...
The Spiderman of my day did not, as I recall, throw cars. Marvel must have made him considerably stronger over the years.

The Batman Beyond suit raised the wearer's strength beyond mere human strength, so that Terry in the suit, like Bruce in the suit, was stronger than Bruce not in the suit. I don't know why anyone would even think otherwise. The "Joker" that Batman Beyond fought wasn't the real Joker, but Tim Drake, rather unbelievably transformed into the Joker by havint Joker's personality imprinted on him as a kid. The whole story was stupid. In any case, I've seen Joker given Batman a run for his money in a fist-fight; indeed, I've even seen Penguin do it. For years Batman was only marginally better in physical combat than these Supervillains. That too seems pretty stupid, given that Bruce trained with the best martial-artists (at least in more recent years; originally he just was good at punching and kicking and had no formal training) but these villains become uninteresting if Batman can easily defeat them in hand to hand.

I'd forgotten about the suit's stealth mode. I think that would give Terry a bigger advantage, although Spiderman's 6th sense might operate to negate it. Still I have to give a bit of an advantage to Terry.

If Spiderman is really strong enough to throw cars now, whether he has an advantage depends in part on how much Terry's suit absorbs shock. Is it supposed to be bulletproof like the rubber suit of the Batman movies? If so, then I'd still give the advantage to Terry. If, however, Spiderman is strong enough to throw cars and the Batman Beyond suit isn't bulletproof, I'd give the advantage to Spiderman because in that caes one punch could collapse Batman's ribcage or skull.

TinSoldier
2006-06-23, 01:34 AM
The "Joker" that Batman Beyond fought wasn't the real Joker, but Tim Drake, rather unbelievably transformed into the Joker by havint Joker's personality imprinted on him as a kid. The whole story was stupid.Thank you. As much as I like Batman Beyond, I agree that it was a stupid story line.

The movie was okay, but the plot sucked.

CelestialStick
2006-06-23, 01:39 AM
Thank you. As much as I like Batman Beyond, I agree that it was a stupid story line.

The movie was okay, but the plot sucked.
It was nice that they tried to tie in Tim Drake and the old (dead) Joker, but they did it in a way that just didn't come across as believable--and that says a lot, considering that the story is set in a fantasy universe.

Edit: It might have worked better if they'd had some magic-using villain somehow transform Tim Drake into the Joker, so that we could believe the physical transformation. That would have required a more complicated storyline, with some sort of motivation for the magic-using villain to bother with the transformation, and wouldn't have emphasized the nasty nature of the Joker. Maybe they would have done better just to have avoided the whole thing?

Holy_Knight
2006-06-23, 03:14 AM
The "Return of the Joker" story was basically just depressing, I thought. It also came out around the time when Superman: TAS ended, which was also really depressing... and when Superman met Terry in Batman Beyond that was really depressing too. What is it with the WB writers around then?

To go back to the original topic, since I thought Spiderman would win vs. the real Batman, I think he wins against Terry, too. (Batman could win round 2 against Spiderman, but I think the first round almost certainly goes to Peter.)

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-06-23, 02:39 PM
If Spiderman is really strong enough to throw cars now, whether he has an advantage depends in part on how much Terry's suit absorbs shock. Is it supposed to be bulletproof like the rubber suit of the Batman movies? If so, then I'd still give the advantage to Terry. If, however, Spiderman is strong enough to throw cars and the Batman Beyond suit isn't bulletproof, I'd give the advantage to Spiderman because in that caes one punch could collapse Batman's ribcage or skull.

Terry's suit is bulletproof, laserproof, has withstood some degree of superpowered punching (not Superman-level, but it's safe to say Spidey would have to wail on it a while before breaking straight through), and I think the limit of its resilience is that it was very badly damaged when Terry threw himself on a grenade - circuitry was exposed - but Terry himself was fine.

I really, really cannot figure out which way this would go...which is kind of why I posted the topic in the first place, you know.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-06-23, 06:18 PM
This is a pretty even matchup, I think. I think Spiderman is stronger than the batsuit's strength enhancements, but of course Terry has a whole slew of options there that Spidey doesn't (I know Spidey has an Iron Man suit now, but that hurts my head so much I don't even want to think about it).

Bonus round: what if it was Ultimate Spiderman vs. first season or so Terry? :P

They gave Spider-man an Iron suit? That seems wieird. I can only think of the alternate universe Spider-man from one of the cartoons that got rich by selling his web-slingers, still had a living uncle Ben and everyone in his dimension new that Peter Parker was spiderman because he was a celeberaty... It was some kind of "The Beyonder makes Spider-man team up with tons of alternate universe Spider-mans to fight an alternate universe Spider-man that had bonded with Carnage" story if I can remember some cartoon I watched at least 5 years ago. I don't know if that was a comic based story or not.

ElfLad
2006-06-23, 06:28 PM
I'd give the edge to Spidey in the long run. Even if he's beat, he usually can regroup and beat his opponent up the next time they meet.

And Spidey's got strength proportionate to a spider, so he's pretty strong.

What I want to know is, how strong is Terry? If Spiderman layered him up in a cocoon, could he break out?

CelestialStick
2006-06-24, 02:59 AM
The "Return of the Joker" story was basically just depressing, I thought. It also came out around the time when Superman: TAS ended, which was also really depressing... and when Superman met Terry in Batman Beyond that was really depressing too. What is it with the WB writers around then?

To go back to the original topic, since I thought Spiderman would win vs. the real Batman, I think he wins against Terry, too. (Batman could win round 2 against Spiderman, but I think the first round almost certainly goes to Peter.)

I miss the New Batman/Superman Adventures and the JL/JLU. (I actually missed the final season of JLU, which apparently the Cartoon Network ran at odd intervals.) What was depressing about Terry meeting Superman though. I think it has been established in several media over the decades that Superman possessed either immortality or superlongevity (depending on the when and where). As I recall, DC did a series in the 1960s or early 1970s set it the future where all kryptonite had been removed from the universe and everyone Superman had know had died long ago. He wanted to be killed, but nobody could do it, as DC hadn't yet made him vulnerable to magic.

I also recall an episode of Smallville in which an old lady who can see the future just sees Clark flying on forever without end. There have been other references too, such as what I believe might have been the episode in which Terry met the future Justice League, which included a slightly-aged Superman in a sharp black outfight with a silver S on the chest.

I recall that you gave Spiderman the edge over Batman in that other thread, and as you'll recall, I was surprised. I gave Batman an edge there.




Terry's suit is bulletproof, laserproof, has withstood some degree of superpowered punching (not Superman-level, but it's safe to say Spidey would have to wail on it a while before breaking straight through), and I think the limit of its resilience is that it was very badly damaged when Terry threw himself on a grenade - circuitry was exposed - but Terry himself was fine.

I really, really cannot figure out which way this would go...which is kind of why I posted the topic in the first place, you know.

Hmm. It sounds like the Batman Beyond suit might give Terry some serious insulation against Spiderman's punches. I think that combined with the rockets, the other gadgets, and the advice from Bruce probably gives Terry the edge.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-24, 04:01 AM
I miss the New Batman/Superman Adventures and the JL/JLU. (I actually missed the final season of JLU, which apparently the Cartoon Network ran at odd intervals.)
I miss those too. Although actually, I haven't gotten to see any of the JLU cartoons, since I don't get Cartoon Network.



What was depressing about Terry meeting Superman though.
In the episode I'm thinking of, they come to find out that Superman has been controlled by an alien life form for quite some time (I want to say like a couple decades, but I forget exactly how long now). I thought that was pretty depressing, the idea of Clark being mind-controlled and essentially "dead" for all that time.



I think it has been established in several media over the decades that Superman possessed either immortality or superlongevity (depending on the when and where). As I recall, DC did a series in the 1960s or early 1970s set it the future where all kryptonite had been removed from the universe and everyone Superman had know had died long ago. He wanted to be killed, but nobody could do it, as DC hadn't yet made him vulnerable to magic.
Yikes... that is sad...



I also recall an episode of Smallville in which an old lady who can see the future just sees Clark flying on forever without end.
I remember that too, but I think it showed him in a graveyard where everyone he cared about was buried, rather than flying. Here's a fun fact: The young version of the murderer from that episode was played by a guy I knew from college. That predated the episode, though.

Jarl
2006-06-24, 05:44 AM
Didn't batman show up in Smallville one episode? Or did they ever go through with that?
Anyways, Epilogue trumps the sadness for sad Batmans. Terry's whole reason for being BB is thrown out the window with the shocking revelation that Bruce is his real father and then there's all this angst, but in the end he comes out ok.
Then of course, the end the whole frikkin' universe with the inverted shot at the end. (The first shot in "On Leather Wings", the first episode of BTAS, which started the DCAU was inverted for the final shot of Epilogue, which basically ends it).
I say... it's a tough choice. Terry by a hair, either early Terry with Bruce's help or later Terry who's on his own.

-BB was pretty good, for a silly kids show that, according to the creator, was "started just to sell toys". I was hoping for the movie, as I know lots of people were. Get Michael Keaton back behind that silly computer, and plop Jake Gyllenhaal into the tights... *nerdgasm*

Hamsterboy_14
2006-06-24, 07:48 AM
Spider man wins because he had help from Pun-Pun and Chuck Noris.

Hoorex
2006-06-24, 01:32 PM
The Spiderman of my day did not, as I recall, throw cars. Marvel must have made him considerably stronger over the years.

The Batman Beyond suit raised the wearer's strength beyond mere human strength, so that Terry in the suit, like Bruce in the suit, was stronger than Bruce not in the suit. I don't know why anyone would even think otherwise. The "Joker" that Batman Beyond fought wasn't the real Joker, but Tim Drake, rather unbelievably transformed into the Joker by havint Joker's personality imprinted on him as a kid. The whole story was stupid. In any case, I've seen Joker given Batman a run for his money in a fist-fight; indeed, I've even seen Penguin do it. For years Batman was only marginally better in physical combat than these Supervillains. That too seems pretty stupid, given that Bruce trained with the best martial-artists (at least in more recent years; originally he just was good at punching and kicking and had no formal training) but these villains become uninteresting if Batman can easily defeat them in hand to hand.

I'd forgotten about the suit's stealth mode. I think that would give Terry a bigger advantage, although Spiderman's 6th sense might operate to negate it. Still I have to give a bit of an advantage to Terry.

If Spiderman is really strong enough to throw cars now, whether he has an advantage depends in part on how much Terry's suit absorbs shock. Is it supposed to be bulletproof like the rubber suit of the Batman movies? If so, then I'd still give the advantage to Terry. If, however, Spiderman is strong enough to throw cars and the Batman Beyond suit isn't bulletproof, I'd give the advantage to Spiderman because in that caes one punch could collapse Batman's ribcage or skull.


Spider-man has been none to lift ten-tons as his limit. So I figure if he does, he can easily throw a car.

Ryujin
2006-06-24, 10:35 PM
Spiderman has a giant robot at his beck & call! :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9q69dPKWgI

Seriously, though, I think that the battle's going to go to whoever decided to be more ruthless.

Funny thing about Peter, he rarely uses his scientific aptitude. Even Hank Pym admits getting an inferiority complex after examining Spidey's tracers, before admonishing Spidey that it's his responsibility to use all of his gifts, not just the physical ones.

silvadel
2006-06-25, 02:46 AM
Spider Senses would be the edge to give this battle to Spiderman.

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 03:02 AM
Didn't batman show up in Smallville one episode? Or did they ever go through with that?


Its been rumoured for 5 seasons, but its probably never going to happen due to the liscensing problem at this point. Its possible that they could given that at the moment WB owns all movie/tv rights for Batmand and Superman, so perhaps given that the presuper character episodes (Arthur Curry and Bart were very fun) have been good.

As for Terry or Peter, I'm giving this one to Pete. His super agility and other powers would give him and edge even over Terry's suit. Spidey could probably beat Iron Man, and he has a way better battle suit that Terry.

CelestialStick
2006-06-25, 03:07 AM
I miss those too. Although actually, I haven't gotten to see any of the JLU cartoons, since I don't get Cartoon Network.

In the episode I'm thinking of, they come to find out that Superman has been controlled by an alien life form for quite some time (I want to say like a couple decades, but I forget exactly how long now). I thought that was pretty depressing, the idea of Clark being mind-controlled and essentially "dead" for all that time.

Yikes... that is sad...

I remember that too, but I think it showed him in a graveyard where everyone he cared about was buried, rather than flying. Here's a fun fact: The young version of the murderer from that episode was played by a guy I knew from college. That predated the episode, though.


I think you can buy JL/JLU on DVD from Amazon.com (and other places). I think I recall the graveyard, but I also think that was a different episode.

I think it might be sort of silly to imagine that in the future everyone Superman loves has died. I mean, I can see his parents, Lois and Jimmy, but surely over his long life he has come to love other people as well. Various other future stories have shown him as head of the Justice League of the future, where he's friends with a newer set of superheroes. And Superman isn't distant like Batman; he's not just in the league or the leader of the league, he's a friend to those in the league. I think that as long as Superman exists, there will be people he loves and who love him back. Just as he has Lana as a teen and Lois as a young adult, he would have Linda as an older adult, etc.

Speaking of Linda (as in Linda Carter) I read in the Wonder Woman article on Wikipedia that in one recent storyline, Superman and Wonder Woman got together romantically, and that Wonder Woman even had Superman's child!

I'm pretty sure that in the episode of Batman Beyond where he meets Superman that Superman hasn't been controlled for all that long--certainly not for decades. It actually reminds me of a similar Paul Dini animated series story in which Superman had been controlled by a parasite at the Fortress of Solitude and Batman and Wonder Woman have to get the parasite off of him before he pummels them both to death.

CelestialStick
2006-06-25, 03:13 AM
Its been rumoured for 5 seasons, but its probably never going to happen due to the liscensing problem at this point. Its possible that they could given that at the moment WB owns all movie/tv rights for Batmand and Superman, so perhaps given that the presuper character episodes (Arthur Curry and Bart were very fun) have been good.

As for Terry or Peter, I'm giving this one to Pete. His super agility and other powers would give him and edge even over Terry's suit. Spidey could probably beat Iron Man, and he has a way better battle suit that Terry.


The way I'd heard it was that before the first season they were talking about having a young Bruce Wayne show up as a business associate of Lex Luthor. I heard nothing about Batman showing up. The impression I'd gotten was that Bruce hadn't yet invented Batman. Now I think it would be too late to believe that Bruce would be involved with someone like Lex, who clearly has a sleazy reputation. Five years ago we might have believed that Bruce didn't know any better yet, but now that's not to credible.

On the other hand, I recall that in Paul Dini's series continuity, Wayne Industries and Luthor Corp had had some sort of joint venture that allowed Brainiac to download himself from the Luthor Corp computer to the Wayne mainframe. I don't know if they ever showed us the actual venture taking place or if this was just the backstory created for the story in which Brainiac uses nannites to take control of Bruce. It's hard to believe though that they ever did a joint venture. I just can't see Bruce ever trusting Lex.

I don't know about Iron Man's suit, but Terry's is extremely advanced and has all sorts of gadgets and I'm betting that Iron Man doesn't have remotely the level of gadgetry that's always been a hallmark of Batman (or at least has been since I've been alive).

Iron Man
Iron Man
Does whatever an iron can
Presses sleeves
Any size

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 03:54 AM
I don't know about Iron Man's suit, but Terry's is extremely advanced and has all sorts of gadgets and I'm betting that Iron Man doesn't have remotely the level of gadgetry that's always been a hallmark of Batman (or at least has been since I've been alive).

Iron Man
Iron Man
Does whatever an iron can
Presses sleeves
Any size

Wow, I want to be an Iron Man now! Then I can finally get that wrinkle out of my good shirt.

As for the suits, Iron Man's has been around since the late 60s early 70s. At first it was just to keep Tony alive, but it eventually evolved into what we have today. I'll see what I can find about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man%27s_armors#Armors_of_the_2000s

Take from that what you will, but I contend that Stark as the superior battle suit if only because he managed to build one capable of wrestling with the Hulk. And by my further contention that Spidey could defeat Iron Man I can safely suggest that Spidey could beat Terry.

CelestialStick
2006-06-25, 05:15 AM
Wow, I want to be an Iron Man now! Then I can finally get that wrinkle out of my good shirt.

As for the suits, Iron Man's has been around since the late 60s early 70s. At first it was just to keep Tony alive, but it eventually evolved into what we have today. I'll see what I can find about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man%27s_armors#Armors_of_the_2000s

Take from that what you will, but I contend that Stark as the superior battle suit if only because he managed to build one capable of wrestling with the Hulk. And by my further contention that Spidey could defeat Iron Man I can safely suggest that Spidey could beat Terry.
These armors sound cool, but how did Spiderman beat Stark, and which armor was Stark wearing at the time? It sounds like Stark beat the Hulk in his Hulkbeater armor, but I seem to recall that the Hulk beat Spiderman.

P.S. Why was Spiderman fighting Stark anyway?

I tried ironing shirts when I first went away to college, back when Jimmy Carter was president. I burned a shirt with the lousy irons they had in my dorm, and gave up ironing ever after. These days I just take my dress shirts to be laundered.

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 11:11 AM
Ah the peanut farmer. Good old Jimmy.

At any rate I don't think he ever has fought Stark, at least that I'm aware of. I'm only suggesting that that he could. It also needs to be asked which Spidey are we talking about, since in the receent continuit he's received an Iron Many like suit from Stark similar to the S.K.I.N. suit or the ablative one that is listed.

Ing
2006-06-25, 01:55 PM
On the other hand, I recall that in Paul Dini's series continuity, Wayne Industries and Luthor Corp had had some sort of joint venture that allowed Brainiac to download himself from the Luthor Corp computer to the Wayne mainframe. *I don't *know if they ever showed us the actual venture taking place or if this was just the backstory created for the story in which Brainiac uses nannites to take control of Bruce. It's hard to believe though that they ever did a joint venture. *I just can't see Bruce ever trusting Lex.



venture was explained in World Finest, a cross over between Batman and Superman. *Lex and Wayne had a joint project on new unmanned planetary probes for Nasa. *Lex thought the design was better suited for military applications. *Wayne soon cut ties with Lex after a fiasco involving Joker getting his hands on the Wayne/Lex technology levels 25% of matropalis.


incidently...why did spiderman fight ironman?

because Tony is an angry drunk





a very angry drunk.