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CelestialStick
2006-06-12, 10:19 PM
I just watched a show about the history of Superman, from the original comic of 1938 through the making of the film Superman Returns. I am worried that Superman Returns has cast a bunch of actors that I can't see as Superman, Lois Lane, or even Perry White.

Superman Returns apparently continues the Christopher Reeve version of Superman, although I've heard it ignores Superman III and Superman IV. I gather than the new Clark Kent will return to the bumbling, tongue-tied ways of Chris Reeve's Clark Kent.

I enjoyed the bumbling Chris Reeve Clark Kent, but frankly, after seeing the more serious and sympathetic portrayals by Tom Welling and Dean Cain, I'm wonder if I'll be able to take a return to the bumbling Clark. For those of you not familiar, the Dean Cain version of Clark really harked back to the snide, worldly Clark as played by George Reeve in the 1950s Amazing Adventures of Superman.

So what do you think of the coming film and its actors and reputed portrayals of the characters? Does it look good to you, or like me do you worry that you will feel disappointment?

Beleriphon
2006-06-12, 10:32 PM
It look good, and I think that the somewhat bumbling Clark makes a lot of sense. It help to distance himself from Superman.

Ing
2006-06-12, 10:44 PM
if they're going for a serious portrayal i'm having a hard time seeing how they could get that with it a sequal (and refrencing) the other sillier ones that include impratical time travel and the deus ex machina restore the powers chamber

CelestialStick
2006-06-12, 10:54 PM
It look good, and I think that the somewhat bumbling Clark makes a lot of sense. It help to distance himself from Superman.

It's true that the very early Superman comics showed a cowardly Clark Kent, but that changed over time as people got tired of it. I mean it first it was cute, but after a while it's like, "come on already, we know he's Superman."

Edit: Also the more three-dimensional potrayals of Clark Kent by Dean Cain and Tom Welling have really opened the door to some serious character development.

In the Chris Reeve version, we see the real Clark Kent as a teenager, his humility, "You been showing off again, son?" "Aw, shucks, Paw, I didn't mean to") as well as his arrogance and sense of humor ("Clark! How did you get here first?" "Oh, I ran"). But once he becomes Superman, we see only projections, as neither Superman nor Clark seems like the real person. Both seem like personnas adopted by the real Clark to hide himself from others. With the Dean Cain and Tom Welling Clarks, we do see some degree of the real Clark acting, but we also get to see the real Clark. In Dean Cain's case we even see some of the real Clark come through in Superman, as in one episode where a common criminal is trying to get away from Superman by driving fast in a car, and Superman flies up next to the car, and flies effortlessly in a sitting position outside the car on the passenger side but even with the driver. I laugh just thinking about the expression on Superman's face.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-12, 11:10 PM
I enjoyed the bumbling Chris Reeve Clark Kent, but frankly, after seeing the more serious and sympathetic portrayals by Tom Welling and Dean Cain, I'm wonder if I'll be able to take a return to the bumbling Clark. *For those of you not familiar, the Dean Cain version of Clark really harked back to the snide, worldly Clark as played by George Reeve in the 1950s Amazing Adventures of Superman.
Hmm... I'm not sure I agree that the Dean Cain and Tom Welling versions aren't bumbling. Maybe not as bumbling, but the Dean Cain version struck me as at least starting that way, and while the Tom Welling version is capable in many ways, he does strike me as somewhat socially awkward. I think Clark should be at least fairly awkward, just given how hard it would be to not only try to fit in while being so different, but to have to maintain a double life at the same time.

As for the movie, I'm really unsure what to make of it as far as expectations (it sounds depressing though, from what I've heard of the plot). I am really excited to see it though. :)

CelestialStick
2006-06-13, 01:07 PM
Hmm... I'm not sure I agree that the Dean Cain and Tom Welling versions aren't bumbling. Maybe not as bumbling, but the Dean Cain version struck me as at least starting that way, and while the Tom Welling version is capable in many ways, he does strike me as somewhat socially awkward. I think Clark should be at least fairly awkward, just given how hard it would be to not only try to fit in while being so different, but to have to maintain a double life at the same time.

As for the movie, I'm really unsure what to make of it as far as expectations (it sounds depressing though, from what I've heard of the plot). I am really excited to see it though. :)


The Dean Can version of Clark was never bumbling. Tom Welling's Clark did seem to fumble and bumble around Lana, but that was because she was wearing green kyrptonite. The Dean Cain Clark did have trouble fitting in, which was conveyed more deftly than by making him bumbling. I recall, for instance, one scene from the very early show in which he walked the walls and ceiling of his tiny one-room apartment in Metropolis.

anphorus
2006-06-13, 02:52 PM
I think my favourite portrayal of Clark and Superman in Superman: Birthright. Clark Kent in the later half is very quiet, forgettable and slightly clumsy because he is trying to hide himself and be unassuming. At the start Clark is a little more like the portayals of Tom Welling and Dean Cain but he is still burdened by the fact that he always has to hide his powers and hold himself back. it's only when he dons the Superman costume that he can really let loose and be himself.

CelestialStick
2006-06-13, 03:40 PM
I think my favourite portrayal of Clark and Superman in Superman: Birthright. Clark Kent in the later half is very quiet, forgettable and slightly clumsy because he is trying to hide himself and be unassuming. At the start Clark is a little more like the portayals of Tom Welling and Dean Cain but he is still burdened by the fact that he always has to hide his powers and hold himself back. it's only when he dons the Superman costume that he can really let loose and be himself.
I'm not familiar with Superman: Birthright. Is that a comic book?

Tarlonniel
2006-06-13, 05:35 PM
Yes. It's yet another retelling of his origin story - apparently including some of the concepts from Smallville. It also makes Clark a vegetarian!

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Birthright

As for the new movie, this Superman fan doesn't plan to see it. #1, I never liked plots which involved other survivors of Krypton; in fact I liked it best when Clark had little or no idea of where he came from. #2, the "religious nut" in me is just not going to accept Lois Lane having an illegitimate kid. #3, I think Superman should be thrilled to discover that the world has learned to live without him, not bummed. There's probably more, but those are enough.

Although I am very curious as to how Clark Kent will explain his 6 year absence and then get rehired at the Planet. :o

Holy_Knight
2006-06-15, 02:01 AM
I'm not familiar with Superman: Birthright. *Is that a comic book?

WHAT?! You've never read Superman: Birthright?! :o













...Neither have I. I wonder if it's good! ;D



The Dean Can version of Clark was never bumbling. Tom Welling's Clark did seem to fumble and bumble around Lana, but that was because she was wearing green kyrptonite. The Dean Cain Clark did have trouble fitting in, which was conveyed more deftly than by making him bumbling. I recall, for instance, one scene from the very early show in which he walked the walls and ceiling of his tiny one-room apartment in Metropolis.
We might be meaning different things by "bumbling". I was mostly referring to being kind of socially awkward, which seemed to me to fit both the Dean Cain version and the Tom Welling one (though my memory of Lois and Clark is fuzzy at this point, I admit.)

baerun
2006-06-15, 09:25 AM
I have to say I am disappointed that they didn't start a new superman series similar to what Batman did with batman begins. But with Lex Luther being played by Kevin Spacey we already know that the villain will be good enough to carry his half of the movie. I disagree with their choice of Lois Lane though, Kate Bosworth, I don't think she has done anything really impressive, personally I wish they could have gotten Teri Hatcher to play Lois again, but so be it. With Superman, they always have to pick an unknown because if they picked a popular actor, there would be too many people that would disagree and it would cause a lot of angry fans.
And with Bryan Singer as the director (he did the first two xmen movies), its going to be a pretty good film.

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 07:54 PM
Yes. It's yet another retelling of his origin story - apparently including some of the concepts from Smallville. It also makes Clark a vegetarian!

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Birthright

As for the new movie, this Superman fan doesn't plan to see it. #1, I never liked plots which involved other survivors of Krypton; in fact I liked it best when Clark had little or no idea of where he came from. #2, the "religious nut" in me is just not going to accept Lois Lane having an illegitimate kid. #3, I think Superman should be thrilled to discover that the world has learned to live without him, not bummed. There's probably more, but those are enough.

Although I am very curious as to how Clark Kent will explain his 6 year absence and then get rehired at the Planet. :o


Thanks for the reference. I'm glad to hear that it returns the post-1985 Superman original to something approximating the original origin. The vegetarian thing is just obnoxious.

I didn't know about the Kryptonians in the new movie (and please don't tell me any more about it!) and I'd heard that Lois's kid belongs to her fiance. I'd rather know as little as possible about the movie before I see it.

I understand that DC has purchased the rights to use the character of Chloe Sullivan in the comics, by the way. This wouldn't be the first time that electronic versions of Superman have altered the comics. Indeed, the radio show first premiered Kryptonite and then years later the comic adopted it from the show.



WHAT?! You've never read Superman: Birthright?! :o

Remember the whole, "I read comics as a kid--in the 1960s" thing? Birthright came out in 2003-4. You'll be happy to know, doubtless, that I've added it too to my Amazon.com Wish List, so you have plenty of choices for gifts to get me. :D



...Neither have I. I wonder if it's good! ;D

We might be meaning different things by "bumbling". I was mostly referring to being kind of socially awkward, which seemed to me to fit both the Dean Cain version and the Tom Welling one (though my memory of Lois and Clark is fuzzy at this point, I admit.)

Well I've watched the entire Lois and Clark run three or four times, and I don't recall Clark ever being socially inept. On the contrary, he always had a sort of small-town charm innocent yet worldly in a wry way at the same time.



I have to say I am disappointed that they didn't start a new superman series similar to what Batman did with batman begins. But with Lex Luther being played by Kevin Spacey we already know that the villain will be good enough to carry his half of the movie. I disagree with their choice of Lois Lane though, Kate Bosworth, I don't think she has done anything really impressive, personally I wish they could have gotten Teri Hatcher to play Lois again, but so be it. With Superman, they always have to pick an unknown because if they picked a popular actor, there would be too many people that would disagree and it would cause a lot of angry fans.
And with Bryan Singer as the director (he did the first two xmen movies), its going to be a pretty good film.
I think it might have been a better idea to start a new Superman movie series, but I suppose the popularity of the first two old Superman movies had something to do with the decision. Given that they set the series in the same universe, I would have preferred that they do with an older Superman and Lois Lane, and then yet, Teir Hatch, who's over 40, could have reprised her tv role as Lois Lane. I suspect she's too busy with Desperate Housewives to make a movie.

Spacey is a suprisingly-good actor, as I discovered when I saw him play a gay southerner in Midnight in the Garden of Good and evil, but I just don't see him as Lex Luthor. Perhaps the actual movie will persuade me otherwise.

I agree with the decision to go with an unkown actor for Superman but I wish they'd chosen someone older and taller.

I really enjoyed X-3, so maybe Bryan Singer will do an equally-good job with Superman. On the other hand, I know that big devotes of X-Men didn't like the film. I'm afraid I might end up feeling similarly about his take on Superman. Fingers crossed.

Flabbicus
2006-06-15, 08:27 PM
My town is having a raffle for an early screening of Superman Returns at the public library. Each ticket is 30 dollars and all of the money goes to charity. I hope I get to see it! ;D

Caillach
2006-06-15, 08:50 PM
I'll see it.
(I read this thing in a magazine about the cool 3D thing they did for this movie. Not the cheezy jumpoutandgetcha 3D but one that makes you feel like your watching it through a window. Sweet.)
I wasn't a big fan of the former superman movies. Don't get me wrong, I adore superman, I think he's the greatest, and Christopher Reeve did a great job, but they made Lex luther far to "silly". Lex isn't silly, and he doesn't hire stupid thugs.(I know it only applies to the one movie really, but man it bugged me.)
as far as I've seen from the previews this is no "silly ol' Lex" so that'd be nice.

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 08:54 PM
My town is having a raffle for an early screening of Superman Returns at the public library. Each ticket is 30 dollars and all of the money goes to charity. I hope I get to see it! ;D
I wonder who came up with raffling off a ticket to a movie version of a comic book character to help fun a library. :)

Ing
2006-06-15, 08:59 PM
i was aginst it, especally because its a recon sequel

UNTIL i SAW the TRAILERS ON TV!!!!

WOW JUST WOW

it has pleased me.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-15, 11:19 PM
I understand that DC has purchased the rights to use the character of Chloe Sullivan in the comics, by the way. *This wouldn't be the first time that electronic versions of Superman have altered the comics. Indeed, the radio show first premiered Kryptonite and then years later the comic adopted it from the show.
Cool! That happened with Harley Quinn in a way, too--she first appeared on Batman: The Animated Series, but then DC made her part of official canon.



Remember the whole, "I read comics as a kid--in the 1960s" thing? *Birthright came out in 2003-4. *You'll be happy to know, doubtless, that I've added it too to my Amazon.com Wish List, so you have plenty of choices for gifts to get me. :D
Lol, I know--you know I was joking though, right? Since I said that I hadn't read it either? :D



Well I've watched the entire Lois and Clark run three or four times, and I don't recall Clark ever being socially inept. On the contrary, he always had a sort of small-town charm innocent yet worldly in a wry way at the same time.
You might be right, I could just be misremembering. I do still think that the Smallville Clark is a bit socially awkward, though.



I agree with the decision to go with an unkown actor for Superman but I wish they'd chosen someone older and taller. *
I don't care about the height thing so much, but I agree that he should have been older. For that matter, I think Lois should have been older too--Kate Bosworth is pretty young, and looks it.



I really enjoyed X-3, so maybe Bryan Singer will do an equally-good job with Superman. On the other hand, I know that big devotes of X-Men didn't like the film. I'm afraid I might end up feeling similarly about his take on Superman. *Fingers crossed.
Actually, Bryan Singer ended up being fired from X-3, and a different director took his place. But based on how good X1 and X2 were (I haven't seen X3 yet) I anticipate good things for Superman Returns.

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 10:47 PM
i was aginst it, especally because its a recon sequel

UNTIL i SAW the TRAILERS ON TV!!!!

WOW JUST WOW

it has pleased me.
Speaking of the trailer, this one shows that this is definitely not Chris Reeve's Superman. You'll recall in Chris Reeve's first Superman movie, he saved Airforce One when it blew out an engine by flying under the wing which had lost the engine and providing lift in place of the engine. In the trailer for Superman Returns, Superman tries to stop a falling plane by grabbing the wing, ripping it off of the hull. I guess Superman has become stupid and ineffectual after all. :(




Cool! That happened with Harley Quinn in a way, too--she first appeared on Batman: The Animated Series, but then DC made her part of official canon.

Cool! I did not know that. What sort of character did they make her in the comics? Is she goofy with a hot body like the one in the animate series, or creepy like the one in the Birds of Prey tv show?


Lol, I know--you know I was joking though, right? Since I said that I hadn't read it either? :D

The really funny thing is that I didn't actually notice that you'd said you hadn't read it either until after I started to type my response. Then I just figured, "what the heck?" and ignored it. I'm still expecting my present from you any day now though! :D


You might be right, I could just be misremembering. I do still think that the Smallville Clark is a bit socially awkward, though.

I think he seemed that way in the beginning because of the whole kryptonite around Lana thing, but he hasn't seemed like that in a long time.


I don't care about the height thing so much, but I agree that he should have been older. For that matter, I think Lois should have been older too--Kate Bosworth is pretty young, and looks it.

Yeah, she's too young too. Superman has typically been depicted as exceptionally tall, in the 6'4" range, the height of Chris Reeve before his accident. Dean Cain I think is much shorter, and managed to play a believable Superman, but I never liked that about his Superman.


Actually, Bryan Singer ended up being fired from X-3, and a different director took his place. But based on how good X1 and X2 were (I haven't seen X3 yet) I anticipate good things for Superman Returns.
Oh well, I didn't know that. I liked X3 the best of them all. It had me on the edge of my seat almost the whole time and when it didn't it had me on the brink of sobbing. I don't recall having anything like that sort of a strong response to the first two X Men movies.

baerun
2006-06-19, 07:55 AM
Speaking of the trailer, this one shows that this is definitely not Chris Reeve's Superman. *You'll recall in Chris Reeve's first Superman movie, he saved Airforce One when it blew out an engine by flying under the wing which had lost the engine and providing lift in place of the engine. In the trailer for Superman Returns, Superman tries to stop a falling plane by grapping the wing, ripping it off of the hull. *I guess Superman has become stupid and ineffectual after all. :(


Wait and see the circumstances surrounding the incident. I know that once in the comics Superman ripped off the wing of a crashing plane so that he could land it on a street between the skyscrapers without having the wings destroy lots of buildings.

Beleriphon
2006-06-19, 07:15 PM
Cool! I did not know that. What sort of character did they make her in the comics? Is she goofy with a hot body like the one in the animate series, or creepy like the one in the Birds of Prey tv show?


Shes the goofy hotbodied one (and boy do they emphasize the later part of that statement). That being said she hangs out with Joker, so she is slightly creepy and more then a little nuts.

CelestialStick
2006-06-19, 08:40 PM
Wait and see the circumstances surrounding the incident. I know that once in the comics Superman ripped off the wing of a crashing plane so that he could land it on a street between the skyscrapers without having the wings destroy lots of buildings.

Fair enough. It didn't look that way in the trailer--it looked like he tried to stop by the plane by grabbing the wing and that it ripped off and was about to conk him on the head--but you make good point. I'm really looking forward to seeing the movie. I'm just praying that I won't be disappointed.




Shes the goofy hotbodied one (and boy do they emphasize the later part of that statement). That being said she hangs out with Joker, so she is slightly creepy and more then a little nuts.


Excellent! I've noticed a time or two that the babes in the comic book are even babier than the animated tv series versions; Huntress II comes to mind. :D

Beleriphon
2006-06-19, 11:54 PM
Its also been implied that she and Poison Ivy have a "special" relationship more than once. So to add to the whole Harely is great there's that as well.

Edit:

And I will be needing to get openning night tickets for myself and the fellas. It will be fun.

CelestialStick
2006-06-20, 06:35 PM
Its also been implied that she and Poison Ivy have a "special" relationship more than once. So to add to the whole Harely is great there's that as well.

Edit:

And I will be needing to get openning night tickets for myself and the fellas. It will be fun.
Woot! Hot lesbian action! :D

Ing
2006-06-21, 01:16 PM
yes don't you know?

its taught to all bio students in BIo101.


all plants are bisexual
;D

CelestialStick
2006-06-21, 08:21 PM
yes don't you know?

its taught to all bio students in BIo101.


all plants are bisexual
;D

LOL. Lesbian plants, eh? Are they hot lesbian plants? ;)

Beleriphon
2006-06-22, 11:37 AM
Woot! Hot lesbian action! :D


Its implied, but never outright said. Its a general assumption on the part of alot of DC characters, and readers.

BTW, plants are technically asexual, being neither male nor female like worms, but not animals so gender is generally pointless when describing them. Except for Swamp-Thing, since he has the hots for a female mammallian humanoid (ie. his girlfriend).

Ing
2006-06-22, 12:56 PM
no no you are mistaken

asexual means lacking gender

bisexual (biologicly) means having BOTH genders. *not always hermafiditic because they may have organs seperated from eachother.

asexual: you don't need a partner you split and repdoruce, through mitosis, spores, budding or clippings, or runners.. IE. there is no sex or coupling involved. offspring are (save for mutation) genetic clones of their parents. many plants can also do this but the prefered method is...

bisexual: you can both fertalize and BE fertalized. *plants, at least flowering plants and conofers, have sex organs for both genders, usually. *a few plants are self specalized to be entirely male or female. in either case offspring are a hybrid of both parents. big diffrence

Earthworms are also Bisexual, as they mate by simotaniously fertalizing and being fertalized. a few lower 'worms' reproduce by spores and are asexual.

CelestialStick
2006-06-23, 12:50 AM
no no you are mistaken

asexual means lacking gender

bisexual (biologicly) means having BOTH genders. not always hermafiditic because they may have organs seperated from eachother.

asexual: you don't need a partner you split and repdoruce, through mitosis, spores, budding or clippings, or runners.. IE. there is no sex or coupling involved. offspring are (save for mutation) genetic clones of their parents. many plants can also do this but the prefered method is...

bisexual: you can both fertalize and BE fertalized. plants, at least flowering plants and conofers, have sex organs for both genders, usually. a few plants are self specalized to be entirely male or female. in either case offspring are a hybrid of both parents. big diffrence

Earthworms are also Bisexual, as they mate by simotaniously fertalizing and being fertalized. a few lower 'worms' reproduce by spores and are asexual.
Hot lesbians to asexual worms. You guys have ruined this thread! :D

Beleriphon
2006-06-23, 10:50 AM
no no you are mistaken

asexual means lacking gender

bisexual (biologicly) means having BOTH genders. *not always hermafiditic because they may have organs seperated from eachother.


Very true. I guess that means I forgot the vast majority of my high school bio. Alas....

Thats really funny thinking about Poison Ivy now. Even more so for Swamp Thing.

Ing
2006-06-23, 02:07 PM
yah currently am a college bio student...don't mess with my vast database of useless plant facts!


though if Ivy were REALLY plant like that would mean she would have both sets of......

oooh feeling woozy and nausius think i'll go lay down now