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Serpentine
2010-05-15, 07:27 AM
I've recently noticed a scandalous lack of resources for archers and the like in D&D, and want to make a place for alternate materials for that sort of character. Anything bows, crossbows or perhaps other ranged weapons: if you've made it, put it here! Items, feats, classes, spells, whatever. And please critique: it would be nice if these things were actually usable in a game.

Classes & Class Options
Iron Rain Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8103297&postcount=1)
Falcon's Eye Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8103296&postcount=1)
Nightingale Feather Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8103306&postcount=1)
Black Rain Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5471505#post5471505)
Falling Star Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=633277&postcount=1)
True Arrow Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7780236&postcount=379)
Thunder Bold Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155361)
Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75248)
Sublime Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156145)
Sagittarius (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117933)
The Sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150215)


Prestige Classes
Ultimate Archer (scroll down)
Witch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8502542&postcount=10)
Member of the... Gnomish Society for... Martial Endeavor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Spirit Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87501)
Thousand-Arrow Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4114034&postcount=1)
Eaglewing Striker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74810)
Twilight Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4895893&postcount=1)
Cold-Fury Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8508938&postcount=1)
Crossbow Slinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125255)

Feats
Take Aim (scroll down)
Ready, Aim... (scroll down)
Protect Rider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Instant Reload (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155361)
Child of Thunder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155361)
Sniper's Patience (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8580128&postcount=34)
True Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645499&postcount=37)
Defensive Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645499&postcount=37)
Mobile Shooter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645499&postcount=37)
Rapid Slinging (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120190)
Close-Combat Shooting and Improved Close-Combat Shooting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8896502&postcount=1)

Items & Item Enhancements
Cavitating (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8502718&postcount=12)
Jark Saddle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Extradimensional Magazine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Extradimensional Magazine, Greater (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Autococker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Armour of Jark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8497974&postcount=4)
Shadowbow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8504261&postcount=19)
Thunder Bolt Glove (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155361)
Staff Sling and Bullets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120190)

Variants
Ranged Weapon Enhancement Rule (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8502718&postcount=12)


Ultimate Archer
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs21/i/2007/264/d/7/Elf_Ranger_by_staino.jpg
A character devoted to the bow. Their backgrounds and tactics are diverse, their only uniting factor being their weapon of choice.
Rangers, Fighters and Rogues can become ultimate archers with the most ease, but any character who focuses on archery can benefit.

Requirements
To qualify to become an ultimate archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Weapon Focus (any bow), Point Blank Shot, any one other feat from the Point Blank Shot feat tree.
Base Attack Bonus: +6

Class Skills
The ultimate archer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowldege (geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int Modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+1|+1|+0|Bonus Feat
2nd|+2|+1|+1|+0|Focus
3rd|+3|+2|+2|+0|Bonus Feat
4th|+4|+2|+2|+1|Bonus Feat
5th|+5|+3|+3|+1|Focus
6th|+6|+3|+3|+1|Bonus Feat
7th|+7|+4|+4|+2|Bonus Feat
8th|+8|+4|+4|+2|Focus
9th|+9|+5|+5|+2|Bonus Feat
10th|+10|+5|+5|+3|Focus[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the ultimate archer prestige class.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Ultimate archers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armour.
Bonus Feat: At 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th levels, the ultimate archer gains one of the following feats: Able Sniper (RotW), Bow Feint (Dr350), Bowslinger (U), Concealed Ambush (Dr339), Deadeye Shot (PH2), Defensive Archery (RotW), Efficient Pull (Dr350), Far Shot (PH), Improved Precise Shot (PH), Rapid Shot (PH), Improved Rapid Shot (PH), Manyshot (PH), Penetrating Shot (PH2), Plunging Shot (RotW), Precise Shot (PH), Ranged Disarm (CW), Ranged Pin (CW), Ranged Sunder (CW), Ranged Threat (DR350), Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2), Sharpshooting (CW), Shot on the Run (PH), Woodland Archer (RotW), Mounted Archery (CW), Improved Mounted Archery (CW), Frontline Archer (Dr332), Take Aim, Ready Aim...
Focus (Ex): At 2nd level, the ultimate archer chooses one of the following spells. She can use that spell as an Extraordinary Ability at will, self only, casting time minimum 1 move action (otherwise as spell). She can choose another spell at 6th and 10th levels. The ultimate archer effectively replicates the spell through meditation, training or simply sheer talent.
The following can be selected as Focuses: Arrow Mind (SC), Hunter's Mercy (SC), Sniper's Shot (SC), Critical Strike (SC), Guided Shot (SC), True Strike (PHB), Hawkeye (SC), Exacting Shot (SC)


Too many feats and/or focuses? Not enough variety? Any other ideas? Any other problems?

Feats
Take Aim
You can take your time to get a good shot.
Prerequisites: Able Sniper (RotW), Far Shot (PH), +5 base attack bonus.
Benefit: As a full round action, you can take 10 on a ranged attack against an enemy that is not aware of your presence. This feat can be used in conjunction with other feats and abilities (e.g., as a full round action you can take 10 to use Ranged Disarm against an enemy that is not aware of your presence).

Ready, Aim...
You can take your time to get a perfect shot.
Prerequisites: Able Sniper (RotW), Far Shot (PH), +5 base attack bonus, Take Aim.
Benefit: By taking a full round action, you automatically score a critical hit on a ranged attack against an enemy that is not aware of your presence.

Roc Ness
2010-05-15, 07:43 AM
I've always loved archer builds, so anything that gives them a little bonus is good in my books. :smallbiggrin:

I like how you manage to cover everything an archer might want to be in a few points. So much variety wrapped in three words: Bonus, Feat and Focus. :smallsmile: That said, I'm also disappointed that everything an archer might want to be is covered in a few points. The class is really good (serious), but the problem is that it feels empty, and the further problem is that there just doesn't seem to be anything to fill it with. :smallfrown:

Serpentine
2010-05-15, 07:47 AM
Hm... What about something to give them extra attacks? Say, at one or two levels, they get an extra attack at their highest attack bonus (as Haste), ranged/bow only? And/or with extra damage?

DracoDei
2010-05-15, 11:59 AM
Well, assuming crossbows count, here is a little (and by that I mean pretty long) niche class I created a while back (I will have other things to add to this thread later):
BUT FIRST... a relevant cross reference link, part of my effort to make the homebrew area just a little more like Wikipedia: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8660030#post8660030
And if you want a more melee focused gnome, try THIS. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11442622#post11442622)

MEMBER OF THE MILITANT ARM OF THE RIGHT-HONORABLE, BOTH IN BATTLEFIELD CONDUCT AND IN MORE EVERYDAY CIVILITY, GNOMISH SOCIETY FOR THE STUDY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THE STORAGE OF ENERGIES OF MOTION IN WOODEN AND METAL ARMATURES AND THE RAPID RELEASE AND RESTORATION AFTER RELEASE OF THOSE ENERGIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROJECTING, WITH PRECISION, PROJECTILES, USUALLY OF A POINTED NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CAUSE HARM, FREQUENTLY TO POINT OF DEATH, AND IN RARE INSTANCES MEASURES BEYOND DEATH TO THOSE THAT GARL GLITTERGOLD WHOSE PRANKS ARE ALWAYS BOTH AMUSING AND INSTRUCTIVE, AGREES WITH OUR OWN HEARTS ON THE POINT THAT THE WORLD IS DECIDEDLY AND STRONGLY LIKELY TO BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT BEING IN SUCH CONDITIONS AS MAY FROM TIME TO TIME ALLOW THEM TO PROJECT FORCE UPON OTHERS BY MEANS OF MARTIAL ENDEAVOR.*
*Hereafterward referred to simply as "society members".

"Here's bolts in your eyes! and your chest and... eh, basically everywhere..." - Fipzath Wandering-Squirrel XII, Society Member

A long time ago, the militant arm of the trade guild that had a legal monopoly on the production of repeater crossbows in a certain gnomish kingdom deported itself well in a long war. Their heavy losses evoked the sympathy of an allied blink-dog clan known as the pack of Jark (their ancestral leader). The dogs noted that it was the lack of mobility to get to a range for accurate attack, while still remaining out of reach from melee combatants that was the weakness of these units. Being highly mobile themselves, the pack of Jark volunteered to serve as their mounts if some way could be found to allow the gnomes to travel with the dog when it used its spell-like mobility and defensive abilities. The project caught the interest of gnomish spell-researchers, and their bold inquisitiveness soon solved the problem. The names of the gnomes and blink dogs who were lost between dimensions in the course of said research are enshrined in the oral traditions of the pack of Jark, and on a plaque in the society headquarters.

So successful was the combined unit, that not only has it survived to this day, rather than dissolving into two separate groups at the end of the war, but the gnomish government annexed the property next to the main guild-hall of the gnomish artisans, and built a permanent "kennel" (the term doesn't quite apply in the usual sense since they can open the doors themselves) and gifted it to the pack. In addition the government and the guild work together to heavily subsidize the purchase of the saddles for new members of the society's militant arm, and the training of the blink dogs who wish to become their mounts.

Technically members of the militant wing of the society are expected stand to stand ready or do patrols to defend gnomish lands. As a practical matter, a clause in the charter of that wing regarding detached duty for the purposes of specific missions to gain practical experience in the use of combat skill provides a generous loop-hole for adventuring members of the society.

BECOMING A SOCIETY MEMBER
Most society members are single-classed fighters, although if the Black Rain Discpline is allowed with modification to make repeater crossbows associated weapons, then perhaps Warblades might join this organization. Of course, a few multi-classed Paladins and Crusaders take this path, but it is rare.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
: Race: Gnome
: Ride 9 Ranks, Craft(Weapon Smith) 9 Ranks
: Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus and Specialization in at least one type of repeater crossbow, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery
: Contribute 7,500 GP towards cost of society saddle, own 2 hands worth of repeater crossbows
: Alignment: Any Good

Class Skills
Craft(Wis), Concentration(Con) , Ride(Dex), Swim(Str), Tumble(Dex)
Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + int

Hit Dice: 1d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Jark Mount, Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting*

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Repeater Focus, Ride-by-Attack*

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Dimension Door Tolerance, Improved Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting*

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Many-Shot*, Poison Bolt Use, Repeater Specialization

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Double-Shot, Greater Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting*

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Artillery-Gnome, Greater Repeater Focus, Improved Ride-by-Attack

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2| Blink Timing, Cross-bows Akimbo, Improved Artillery-Gnome

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Greater Artillery Gnome, Greater Many-Shot*, Greater Repeater Specialization
9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|Greater Ride-by-Attack, Improved Crossbows Akimbo

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3| Masterful Rapid Shot, Masterful Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting, Improved Mounted Archery[/table]
*Repeater Crossbows only, applies even if it that feat would not normally apply to Repeater Crossbows. In the case of the Two/Multi-Weapon feats it functions as whichever is applicable at any given time.

Weapon Proficiencies: Society members gain proficiency in all repeater crossbows.

Jark Mount(Partner): At first level a society member is paired with a blink-dog, an incomplete monster listing for this secondary PC is provided later in this document. The elite array is distributed by the player, and it modified by the racial adjustments given. Skill points are similarly distributed, but the initial feats listed are static and may not be altered (except later, if the DM allows retraining). Feats for additional HD beyond 7 (so at 9, 12, 15, and 18 HD) are selected by the player. This pairing is almost always for life (and beyond in the case of Resurrection). Losing levels in this class or failing to meet the requirements (other than alignment violation) does not cause the partnership to end. In the case of death replacement partners are arranged ONLY if there is absolutely no practical way (up to and including the sale of all team (not party, team) equipment other than the saddle, non-magical armor, and an single non-magical crossbow) of arranging the decease's return to life via something that would preserve the form. At the GMs descretion, if there is an ECL difference of 3 or more between the dog and rider, a replacement might be allowed or even forced. The blink dog never advances beyond medium size, but starts with HD equal to the gnome's ECL, it gains HD to keep it equal, provided no level loss on either side creates an imbalance and there is no ECL buy-off involved. In the case of level loss, the imbalance will continue at an equal amount until and unless the level loss is recovered. In the case of buy-off, the dog does not level up until after blink-dog HD=gnome HD (both modified for level loss) once again.

Example(If this were in print I would do it as a side-bar, as it is, a quote will have to do.):

Silbok Grash-borne Tilazook the Half-Bronze Dragon, is accepted into the militant arm of the guild as a 6th level fighter. With his new prestige class level, his ECL is 6+1+2=9. He is paired with Mish, a upstanding and soft-spoken bitch of 9 HD.

Not one month after joining the society, an outbreak of vampirism forces them into a fierce battle. Silbok is level drained 2 levels. Two failed fortitude saves later, Silbok is a 5th level fighter with a +2 LA. Unfortunately, no caster of sufficient power is available to reverse Silbok's level loss at that time. Neither Mish, nor the society at large cares one whit about the fact that Silbok could no longer make the entry requirements for their initial training program that included getting to be paired with Mish, let along use the skills he learned in that training program.

After some brief but intense training to consolidate the lessons learned from the battle, Mish is back up to 9 HD and Silbok is a 6th level fighter with an ECL of 8.

A bit later, they hook-up with another unit that contains a 15th level cleric. Swamped with casting, the cleric does not have to divine energy to help them for a few days, but eventually a Restoration, Greater is cast, returning Silbok to a 6th level fighter, 1st level Society Member, +2 LA half-dragon, for a total ECL of 9.

Some leveling, a death and a Resurrection later, Mish is a 12 HD, medium-sized blink-dog, and Silbok is a 6/3/+2 Fighter/Society Member/Half-Dragon for an ECL of 11. Mish is now the stronger of the two in some ways, but they simply take this into account with their tactics, and get on with their jobs.

Silbok removes one point of his level adjustment to become an ECL 10 character. Mish does not loose a HD from this process and remains a 12 HD character.

Silbok gains a level. Because they are separated by 2 points of ECL, and only 1 of that is level loss, Mish does not gain a HD. Mish is still 12 HD, and Silbok is a 6/4/+1 -> ECL 11 character.

Another level up by Silbok makes Mish a 13 HD blink-dog, still of medium size, and Silbok a 6/5/+1 Fighter/Society Member/Half-dragon for an ECL of 12.


Repeater Focus (Ex): As per the feat Weapon Focus, but applies to all Repeater Crossbows.

Dimension Door Tolerance (Ex): You may now act in a round after being dimension doored by your mount.

Poison Bolt Use(Ex): Society members are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a crossbow bolt.

Repeater Specialization (Ex): As per the feat Weapon Specialization, but applies to all Repeater Crossbows.

Double-Shot(Ex): As an attack action you may attack once with each repeater crossbow you are holding. This may be combined with Many-Shot and/or Improved Many-Shot.

Artillery Gnome (Ex): As per the Far-Shot feat, but applies only to Heavy Repeater Crossbows.

Greater Repeater Focus (Ex): As per the feat Weapon Focus, Greater, but applies to all Repeater Crossbows.

Crossbows Akimbo(Ex): When attacking with two or more repeater crossbows, provided that only (at most) one of them is light, and none are heavy, you only take a -1 penalty instead of a -2 penalty for two/multi-weapon fighting.

Blink Timing (Ex): You ignore the miss chance from being under a Blink spell and/or similar effect.

Improved Ride-by-Attack(Ex): While mounted you may make a full attack with one or more repeater crossbows. All attacks at your highest BAB happen at the start of the movement, all attacks at your lowest BAB happen at the end-point of the movement, and all other attacks happen at the mid-point of the movement. You many not use Rapid-Shot or other such feats or effects (such as Haste or a Repeater Crossbow of Speed) to gain more attacks, however you many benefit from any two-weapon fighting feats granted by this class.

Improved Artillery Gnome (Su): Any one heavy repeater crossbow you wield counts as having the Distance enchantment. You may change which weapon this applies to once per round as a free action.

Greater Artillery Gnome (Ex): As per the Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot feats, but applies only to Heavy Repeater Crossbows.

Greater Repeater Specialization(Ex): As per the feat Weapon Specialization, Greater, but applies to all Repeater Crossbows.

Improved Crossbows Akimbo(Ex): When attacking with two or more repeater crossbows, provided that only (at most) one of them is light, and none are heavy, you take no penalty for two/multi-weapon fighting.

Greater Ride-by-Attack(Ex): You may now use Rapid shot, as augmented by this class while making a ride-by attack.

Masterful Rapid-Shot(Ex): You now only take a -1 to-hit penalty instead of -2 when using Rapid-Shot with repeater crossbows.

Masterful Two-Weapon Fighting(Ex): You now get your full BAB worth of attacks with each repeater crossbow weilded (4 attacks in a full attack, plus extras for rapid-shot, Haste, or whatever).

Improved Mounted Archery(Ex): The penalty you take when using a ranged weapon while mounted is re-halved: -1 instead of -2 if your mount is taking a double move, and -2 instead of -4 if your mount is running.

PLAYING A SOCIETY MEMBER
You are a tinkering gnome who is probably every bit as geeky as you are are deadly. You and your mount are a team, equals in every way, and next to nothing without the other, you share a common purse... a purse with very tight strings that tends to go empty at intervals since the costs of your equipment are high, not to mention the costs for the occasion Resurrection or whatever for the "pilot" side of your "pilot/gunner" duo.

Combat: Use skirmisher archer tactics, but your short range means a foe may be able to close on you. This isn't actually all that much of a problem since you can simply dimension door away. Use the dog to get to an advantageous position, then put as many bolts as possible into your foes or use the threat of such to lure them out of position.
Advancement: Your only really major choices are what level of armoring to go with for your partner at lower levels (until you get the Dimension Door Tolerance class feature) and whether to invest in a hand crossbow and a light crossbow, or in a heavy repeater crossbow. Your non-bonus feats should probably be defensively oriented, perhaps including Skill-Focus(Ride) to further boost your ability to protect the blink dog.
Resources: In addition to the society and pack themselves, society members are have the respect of both gnomes and blink-dogs everywhere. Since blink-dogs are known for their unflagging dedication to the cause of Good, the altruism of a society members is rarely questioned by anyone who knows anything about magical beasts.

SOCIETY MEMBERS IN THE WORLD
"WHERE IN OUR HOMELAND DID ALL THOSE BOLTS COME FROM?" captured demon, sole survivor of a clash with society members.
Society members serve much the same social function as fighters, and mix with army and town guard units quite readily. Although seen as a bit oddball, they are well respected for what they do.
Daily Life: A typical day might go in the following order: Breakfast, repeater crossbow making, patrolling as town watch or gnomish borders, lunch, run agility course with targets, more practice separately (probably the only part of the day where you are apart from your mount), dinner, playful argument about which of you gets the foot of the bed this time (lose intentionally), sleep.

Notables:
Murgatok Higgenbottom is a Neutral Good 6th level fighter/6th level Society member currently assigned to patrol a section of wilderness where the dementional boundaries to the Elemental plane of Fire are thin with his partner Ye. He helps displaced fire elementals to make it to the nearest town without starting any run away blazes so they may seek employment as forges (not IN a smithy you understand but AS the heat-source of such).l He does not speak ignan, but carries a bronze tablet with him with the necessary introductions on it). The more evil sort of dimensional castaway he dispatches if they do not surrender upon him reciting a warning phrase in ignan that he memorized by rote.

Susan Ramblehorn Munchausen Earwig-Eater Wilberforce Drackenshire Black-Pudding-Daughter Smith is/was a Chaotic Good 2nd level Aristocrat, 9th level Warblade, 2nd level fighter, 15th level Society Member, 13th level Psychic Warrior who left for the Far Realms wearing her vest of the Girallion (but, as she is rumored to have loudly announced during her departure speech, no underwear) is undoubtedly the most mighty society member ever to have lived. Her return is dreaded by the society as a whole. She accepted a Greater Geas to retrieve her mount from the Soul Bind she had ended up in as soon as she returned from her "vacation" away from the politics of the material plane which she found so annoying. Her birthname has been lost to antiquity, since she swore to "deliver a painful noogie" to anyone who spoke or wrote it after she switched to here new one, and while many scholars are willing risk such for the sake of the truth, they are NOT willing to risk the fact that in her own mind "noogie" might mean "an eternity of varied and creatively brutal and sadistic torments". Her (ex-)mount changed her own name from Gip to Rosaline Johnson at that same time, but never objected to anyone calling her by her old name.
Organizations: The Society and the Pack are the only organizations likely to be involved, except in the case of paladins and crusaders, who have their church (or whatever).

NPC Reaction
Between their gung-ho combat mindset and geeky sides, most ordinary folk steer clear of direct social interaction with society members given the option.

SOCIETY MEMBERS IN THE GAME
The power of Society Members varies a lot with how high wealth the game is. At the low end, expect them to stick to a single heavy repeater crossbow for a while, at the high end, expect hand/light crossbows, eventually with the Distance and Speed enchantments as well as energy enchantments (flaming, shocking, vitrolic, etc) to capitalize on the huge number of attacks this class can generate, and virtual immunity to Dimensional Anchor as a way of shutting them down. The mount should not slow combat down much since the team wants to remain at range (so no bite attack), and they occupy a single space. Society members are good for bold players who get easily bored when their boldness ends up with their character temporarily out of the fight or scenario (paralyzed or dead respectively) since they can still contribute at some level by playing the blink-dog. Similarly, the gnome is weaker, but not totally useless without the dog. Dimension Door at will is a very powerful ability just for shear terrain negation, and once Dimension Door Tolerance kicks in expect the gnome+dog unit to become the one of the most highly mobile units in the game.
Adaptation: Opening the class to other races, rather than having it be quite so elite, could be interesting. In such a case, have the blink dogs start as Large instead of medium, so that they can carry elves etc. For a middle course on this option, do not subsidize the saddles for non-gnomes. For a more modern/fantasy hybrid substituting magazine fed pistols or sub-machineguns for the crossbows makes perfect sense.
Encounters: If they are doing something suspicious in gnome lands, having a neat ring of bolts appear around them can be a nice wake-up call. Conversely a teleporting arrival as reinforcements to a losing battle can be a very dramatic way of avoiding a Total Party Kill. Speaking of PC death, if a member of this class dies, the player can "limp along" by playing the dog until a reanimation or replacement character can be arranged.

Example Characters:
Gnome (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=24884) + Blink Dog (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=24885)

"Blank" for most common starting Jark Blink-Dog
Medium Magical Beast
HD 7d10+(7*Con Mod)
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares)
Init: DEX Mod
AC (18+DEX Mod); touch (13+DEX Mod); flat-footed 18
(+(DEX Mod) Dex, +3 Natural, Chain-Shirt Barding of Jark +1)
BAB +7; Grp +(7+STR Mod)
Attack Bite +(7+Str Mod) (1d6 + (1.5*STR Mod))
Full-Attack Bite +(7+Str Mod) (1d6 + (1.5*STR Mod))
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Qualities Blink, darkvision 60 ft., dimension door, low-light vision, scent
Saves Fort +(7+DEX Mod), Ref +(7+DEX Mod) Will +(6+WIS Mod)
Ability Modifiers* Str (+0), Dex (+6), Con (+0), Int (+2), Wis (+2), Cha (+0)
Class Skills Being Ridden, Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot, Survival, Swim
Feats Iron Will, Run, Protect Rider
Alignment Any Good
Advancement 8+ HD (Medium)
*Use the elite array, as distributed by the player.
Languages Known: Gnomish, Blink Dog
Starting equipment before additional purchases/upgrades from the funds the gnome brought to the partnership: Saddle of Jark (partially paid for by gnome), Chain-Shirt Barding of Jark +1, saddle-bags, waterskin, 10 day's preserved rations, food and water bowls, Tent large enough for self and partner, masterwork grooming brushes and claw-files,

Protect Rider [Jark]
Jark Blink-dogs are partners to their riders in ways that even a paladin's mount isn't. They require no direction, and, indeed, the gnome in the saddle may sometimes be breifly surprised by where the teams ends up, but only to the extent that two swordsmen working together might vary SLIGHTLY from each-others' expectations.
Prerequisites:Blink-dog of the Pack of Jark
Benefits: You fight cooperatively with your rider. The "Fight with Warhorse", "guide with knees", and "Jump" aspects of the Ride skill may not be used with you, but as long as you are cooperating with your rider, the mechanical effect is as if "Fight with Warhorse", and "guide with knees" had been rolled successfully.
The exclusive skill "Being Ridden", counts as a class skill for you. The uses of this skill all require that you also have this feat. For this reason, the skill is described here instead of in a separate block. The skill is Dexterity based and may not be used untrained. There are three uses for this skill:

Once per round when your partner(not merely any rider, but your dedicated partner) is hit in combat while riding you, you may attempt a Being Ridden check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Being Ridden check result is greater than the opponent’s attack roll. (Essentially, the Being Ridden check result becomes the rider’s Armor Class if it’s higher than the rider’s regular AC.) You may not use this action if the rider is currently using the "Cover" use of the Ride skill.
You may make a DC 20 being ridden check to retain an unconscious rider in the saddle when they would otherwise fall off.
Spur Self: You can mentally spur yourself to greater speed with a free action. A successful DC 15 Being Ridden check increases the your speed by 10 feet for 1 round but deals 1 point of damage to you. You can use this ability every round, but each consecutive round of additional speed deals twice as much damage to yourself as the previous round (2 points, 4 points, 8 points, and so on). The speed increase is NOT cumulative with that from the "Spur Mount" use of the Ride skill, and they count as each-other for purposes of determining damage.

Normal: A rider must expend actions to control a mount and is not any harder to hit unless taking cover behind the mount.

Magic Items
Note that except for the saddle, the trade guild the Society is part of is perfectly willing to sell any or all of these to anyone they legally and morally can.
Jark Saddle
Price: 15,000 gp + 200 per point of spell resistance.
Body Slot: Belt (for the dog)
Caster Level: 7th or (spell resistance bestowed -10), whichever is greater.
Aura: Conjuration (strength varies by caster level)
Activation: Use (free action to augment use of appropriate SLA by wearer)
Weight: 10 lbs
These ornately decorated yet functional saddles are the key to the mobility of Society Members.
This military saddle allows a Jark Blink Dog to take their bonded rider and both of their worn and carried equipment with them when the Blink and Dimension Door. The rider can take no actions on their next turn unless they have the Dimension Door tolerance class feature. The spell resistance, if present, only functions to allow the Blink and Dimension Door SLA's of a blink dog wearing the saddle and only against Dimensional Anchor, Dimension Lock and similar spells and effects. Note that in the case of Dimensional Anchor it is irrelevant if it was the Jark blink dog, the rider, or some item of their equipment that was hit, the SR kicks in anyway.
prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Blink, Dimension Door
cost to create: (Calculate as normal based on market price)

Extradimensional Magazine
Price: 200 GP + 200 gp per point of spell resistance.
Body Slot: N/A
Caster Level: 7th or (spell resistance bestowed -10), whichever is greater.
Aura: Conjuration (strength varies by caster level)
Activation: Use
Weight: 1 lb
Similar to the well beloved bag of holding that is part of many adventures' equipment, these devices are the key to sustained fire for society members.
This repeater crossbow magazine holds up to 100 bolts, which are withdrawn in reverse order from what they were inserted in (just like a normal clip. The spell resistance ONLY allows the clip to keep from sealing even if the wielder (or even the magazine itself) is struck by a Dimensional Anchor or the magazine is taken into the area of a Dimension Lock Spell. If it is effected despite spell-resistance in such a case, then only the next 5 bolts are available until the effect ends.
prerequisites:Craft Magical Weapons and Armor, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any Repeater Crossbow), Rope Trick , Craft (Weapon Smith) 9 ranks
cost to create: (Calculate as normal based on market price)

Extradimensional Magazine, Greater
Price: 2000 GP + 5 gp per bolt capacity over 100 + 200 gp per point of spell resistance.
Caster Level: 9th or (spell resistance bestowed -10), whichever is greater.
Use by almost all of the society members who can afford them, this allows alchemical silver, cold-iron, and adamintine bolts to be mixed in for use when needed without the need for swapping magazines in the middle of a combat. The most wealthy members will usually also include a selection of Bane or Energy enchanted bolts in the mix.
As per Extradimensional Magazine, except that the mental desire of the wielder rather than a first-in-first-out queue determines which bolt is delivered to the weapon is attached to (or for unloading in the rare instances bolts are removed manually from these devices), and that they can be purchased with higher capacities. Selecting a bolt is a free action that may be combined with firing it. Unfortunately no bolts at all may be removed or fired if this device has its spell-resistance (including if it has none) against a spell or effect that bars extra-dimensional movement overcome.
prerequisites:Craft Magical Weapons and Armor, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any Repeater Crossbow), Secret Chest , Craft (Weapon Smith) 9 ranks
cost to create: (Calculate as normal based on market price)

Autococker
Price: +1000 GP, weapon must be a repeater cross-bow with an enchantment bonus of +1 or more
Body Slot: Weapon Enchantment
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Transmutation (strength varies based on weapon's total enchantments)
Activation: Use
Weight: N/A
This enchantment may only be placed on repeater crossbows. It makes them semi-automatic instead of pump-action or lever-cocked (although those options are still available for inside an Anti-Magic Field. This is the key to Society Member's dual-wielding techniques.

Armor of Jark
Price: +500 GP (subsidized to be free to add for Jark blink-dogs) armor must be fitted for a blink-dog and have an enchantment bonus of +1 or more
Body Slot: Armor Enchantment
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint Transmutation (strength varies based on weapon's total enchantments)
Activation: Use
Weight: -5% (feel free to ignore this since it is so small of a change)
Developed by the arcanists who work with the Society, this enchantment goes a long way to emphasizing the equality between the partners, freeing the gnomes from serving the dogs, and making the dogs much less dependent on the gnomes.
Holds the last pose it was in if its owner is not in it except that it stands up on its own (albeit with a strength of 1) and has typically has no seams in it. This simplifies the design, and the blink dog can simply Dimension Door in and out of the armor.
prerequisites: Craft Magical Weapons and Armor, Mage Hand , Craft (Armor Smith) 3 ranks
cost to create: 250 gp, 20 xp, 1 day


New Weapon
Name| Cost|Dmg (S)|Dmg (M)|Critical|Range Increment|Weight*|Type
Crossbow, Repeater hand|200 gp| 1d3 | 1d4 |19-20/×2| 30 ft. |3 lb. |Piercing

Special: Counts as a light weapon for purposes of fighting with more than one weapon.
*The most common version is, of course, made for a gnome (a small character) and thus weighs 1.5 lbs)

DracoDei
2010-05-15, 12:05 PM
Regarding Ultimate Archer:
2 feats and a BAB requirement seems a little light for an "Ultimate" anything... make it PBS and TWO others from that tree at the least and then you are talking.

I would go ahead and at least make Focus Supernatural instead of Extraordinary.

Serpentine
2010-05-16, 12:53 AM
Society Members: very niche indeed, but snazzy.

Mostly I couldn't think of a better name :smalltongue: You really think the requirements aren't enough? I thought they were fairly steep already... Anyone else wanna comment on that?
The point of the Focus is that the spells are more of a state of mind type thing, more like a ToB stance than a spell-like or supernatural ability. When an Archer uses Arrow Mind, he takes a breath, focuses himself, like a meditation, and uses his training to excecute that particular maneuver. I'm willing to hear arguments for it being supernatural, but it's pretty much against the point of it.

DracoDei
2010-05-16, 01:44 AM
Society Members: very niche indeed, but snazzy.

I did include directions on making it not gnome-specific... which still leaves you with a mounted archery build focused on an exotic weapon, so still pretty specific. I guess I am just asking if you noticed that part.


Mostly I couldn't think of a better name :smalltongue: You really think the requirements aren't enough? I thought they were fairly steep already... Anyone else wanna comment on that?
Well, since a WIZARD could meet the feat requirements by 3rd level without even having to be human, I stand by my statement that it does seem a bit light.


The point of the Focus is that the spells are more of a state of mind type thing, more like a ToB stance than a spell-like or supernatural ability. When an Archer uses Arrow Mind, he takes a breath, focuses himself, like a meditation, and uses his training to excecute that particular maneuver. I'm willing to hear arguments for it being supernatural, but it's pretty much against the point of it.
Ah, Ok... if you can explain this in the class itself it should help a lot.

erictheredd
2010-05-16, 01:54 AM
I also think the pre-reqs are a little light. why? because they don't require any thing beyond what a normal archer would get, and as I see it the class is Much stronger than a normal fighter. you get more feats than normal, plus a spell like ability at will on the levels that you don't. I suppose your hands are tied by having a more restricted set of feats, but really, those were the ones you would get any way. not only that, you get more skill points and class skills....though I supose if you beleive the fighter is "broken" class its fine...

of course, I am used to DMing low level compaigns which usually have an archery specialist as well as a meat sheild, and this class would drive the sword swinger crazy, so I'm a little wary of it for that reason.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-05-16, 02:17 AM
Leave the Ultimate Archer prereqs as they are. The idea that one must sink 4 feats, 32 skill points, an arm and a leg into prerequisites before heading into a PrC just screws martial characters; if you want to be a good archer, then dammit, you should start being awesome as soon as possible with as little effort as possible.

Two additional points: First, leaving it at 3 feats means a non-human non-fighter can get into it at level 6, which is a good thing. Second, the arcane archer's prerequisites are +6 BAB, WF (bow), PBS, Precise Shot, and 1st level casting, so given that both are "make me a better archer" PrCs and this one isn't a caster, the existing prerequisites are fine.

Vaynor
2010-05-16, 02:19 AM
Here's an archery PrC I made. It's based off of Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, it's not meant to be a witch in the traditional sense.


WITCH

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs15/f/2007/100/5/0/Serafina_Pekalla_by_dukeleto.jpg
a witch and her dæmon

”A witch would no sooner give up flying than give up breathing. To fly is to be perfectly ourselves.”

Witches are those who seek to live freely and preserve the natural order. They are free spirited and very spiritual, although they receive no divine powers. With both a powerful connection to their dæmons and a deep understanding of the natural world, they make cunning warriors and fierce protectors.

Witches tend to live in cold environments, enjoying the freedom the inhospitality of the wintry regions brings. Witches have little interest in the lives of ordinary people, and deal almost exclusively with mutual aid as opposed to wealth. Witches are very loyal, and they take their obligations seriously, not questioning aiding another that has aided them in the past. Inversely, witches also take feuds very seriously, and will hold a grudge for a very long time.

Witches acknowledge neither church nor state, and are unlikely to take the mortal laws of man seriously. Because of their long life span, grudges can be held for extraordinarily long periods of time, and for mostly unknown reasons (although it is believed this is due to past persecution) witches hold a great degree of enmity towards religious institutions.

Witches revere the natural order above all else, and abhor any unnatural practices, such as necromancy or undue prejudice. They will fight vehemently to protect the natural world, holding the world at a higher level than any number of lives.

Witches tend to avoid meaningful relationships or marriage, due to their long lifespan such pairings are fleeting, meaning their “hearts are continually wracked with pain.”[/size]

BECOMING A WITCH
One becomes a witch by being in tune with both the soul and nature as a whole. To become a witch you must learn to separate yourself from your dæmon, and embrace your freedom. A witch is nothing without her personal freedom.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Alignment: Chaotic good
Skills: Knowledge (nature) 6 ranks, Survival 6 ranks
Proficiencies: Must be proficient with at least one type of bow.
Gender: Female
Template: Linked Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138385)
Special: The witch’s dæmon must have chosen a single form to occupy, and this form must able to fly.

Class Skills
The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Handle Animal (Wis), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (geography), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + Int

Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|Elemental Freedom, Heavenly Freedom

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Independent Soul, Frigid Arrows, Cloud Cover

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Star’s Wrath, Timeless Body

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Tenacious Soul, Vengeance of the Night Sky

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|Frenzy of the Soul[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A witch gains proficiencies with all simple light and one-handed weapons, longbows, shortbows, composite longbows, and composite shortbows.

Elemental Freedom (Ex): A witch feels no ill effects from any earthly cold, and is considered under the effect of endure elements at all times. The witch also gains Cold Resistance equal to her ranks in Survival (max 20). The witch’s dæmon is fully affected by this ability.

Heavenly Freedom (Su): A witch’s home is in the sky, and she can achieve flight simply by holding a cloud pine branch. Holding a cloud pine branch does not hinder the use of her hands in any way when she is flying. A cloud pine branch may be pulled from any tree. When holding a branch of cloud pine, the witch gains a fly speed of 40’ (good). At level 4, her flight speed improves to 60’ (good). The penalty to Hide checks while moving normally is reduced by 5 when flying. Flying requires no energy output, and a witch cannot become tired from flying, however a witch cannot run when flying, but can still hustle (allowing a speed of 80’ and 120’ depending on level).

Independent Soul (Ex): A witch’s dæmon is a fully independent creature. At level 2, any and all range restrictions on the witch’s dæmon are removed. The witch’s dæmon also gains fast healing 5. The witch and her dæmon can communicate only through basic emotional messages when at a distance of more than 5 miles from the other.

Frigid Arrows (Ex): A witch is adept at using her bow even in situations that would normally hinder its use. At level 2, the witch is not penalized for firing a bow when she is unable to see her targets due to extraneous weather such as fog, smoke, blizzards, rain, etc. (she must still have line of sight). Any concealment gained by her enemies due to such effects is negated, but this ability does not gain concealment gained in any other way. When firing her bow while flying, the penalty for increasing a bow’s range increment is halved.

Cloud Cover (Ex): A witch is adept at remaining unseen while flying. At level 2, the witch gains a +5 bonus to Hide checks when flying. If the witch has 15 or more ranks in Survival, this bonus increases to +10. A cloud or similar may be considered cover.

Star’s Wrath (Ex): A witch is adept at utilizing her bow when airborne. At level 3, whenever the witch takes a movement action she may fire a single arrow with her bow. Five foot steps do not incur this ability. This action does not use up any additional actions. If the witch chooses not to move to use a full attack, she receives an additional attack with her bow made at her highest BAB.

Timeless Body (Ex): A witch’s lifespan is very long, and they do not age. At level 3, the witch no longer visibly ages, and takes no penalties from aging. In addition, the witch’s maximum lifespan is doubled.

Tenacious Soul (Ex): A witch’s dæmon is a force to be reckoned with. At level 4, the dæmon’s fast healing improves to 10 (from 5). In addition, the dæmon’s flight speed is increased by 50%.

Vengeance of the Night Sky (Ex): The witch specializes in firing her bow from above. At level 4, when targeting a creature on the ground, or who is more than 20 feet below her while she is flying, the witch gains a +3 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This only affects attacks made with a bow the witch is proficient with. If the witch is more than 20 feet above her target, the bonus damage is increased by +1 for every 10 additional feet (maximum +5, not including the base +3). This extra damage is added for every arrow fired.

Frenzy of the Soul (Ex): Once per day per Wisdom modifier, the witch can send herself and her dæmon into a frenzy. All abilities affect both the witch and her dæmon unless noted otherwise. Flight speed increased by 50%, one additional attack when using Star’s Wrath (her dæmon instead gaining a single additional attack for a standard or full attack action), DR 5/-, and each attack deals an additional 2d6 cold damage. Frenzy of the Soul lasts for 2 rounds per Wisdom modifier point or until canceled. Frenzy of the Soul must be in line of sight of her dæmon for it to gain any benefits from this ability. Frenzy of the Soul is considered a frenzy ability for meeting the prerequisites of feats and prestige classes.


PLAYING A WITCH
The witch is designed to be a ranged warrior that focuses on flight and maneuverability, as well as her dæmon.
Combat: Combat for a witch usually entails flying above her enemies and shooting arrows at them from above, while sending in their daemon for close-quarters combat.
Advancement: Classes that focus on ranged combat enhancement are greatly beneficial to a witch, as well as feats that improve ranged combat.
Resources: A witch does not own many possessions or stay for long in one place, but they can enlist the aid of fellow witches, including members of their clan if they belong to one.

WITCHES IN THE WORLD
”There’s all kinds of concerns that play on the life of witches; things invisible to us...causes of war quite beyond our understanding; joys and sorrows bound up with the flowers of tiny plants up on the tundra...”

Witches are generally unknown, and if one does know of them, they don’t know much. Witches are very seclusive and independent, rarely needing assistance on any terms. Those that have had the luck of dealing with witches know them for their strength of will, loyalty and courage.
Daily Life: The average witches day may consist of hunting or gathering supplies, crafting weapons or tools, or fighting battle to protect that which is dear to them.
Notables: One of the most notable witches is Ruta Skadi, a witch-queen of one of the more powerful witch clans. Not much is known about her, but she is said to have lived for over 500 years and yields great power.
Organizations: Witches are often members of a clan, which is presided over by a witch-queen. There are many well established clans, all with their unique infrastructures and traditions. Between clans there are often feuds, but between others there are great alliances.

NPC Reaction
When seeing a witch for the first time, one of the first reactions is wonder. They dress strangely, have a fierce look to them, and can fly through the sky. The more urbanized NPC may look upon them with disdain, but a wise NPC can see the strength in the way they carry themselves and recognize them for the great and courageous warriors that they are.

WITCHES IN THE GAME
Witches make good ranged damage dealers, or scouts because of their ability to fly and send their dæmon elsewhere.
Adaptation: To use the witch in different campaign settings, it would be quite easy to alter their class requirements to work with different genders, religious backgrounds, alignments, etc.
Encounters: PCs will rarely encounter a witch, whom often regard the life of an adventurer as foolish and greedy. However, some live the life of an adventurer not for the glory, but for the adventure itself. They enjoy seeing whatever the world has to offer. A PC would only engage a witch in combat if the party directly affected the environment negatively, or somehow spited the witch.


Inspiration found here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_dark_materials)

Serpentine
2010-05-16, 02:50 AM
I did include directions on making it not gnome-specific... which still leaves you with a mounted archery build focused on an exotic weapon, so still pretty specific. I guess I am just asking if you noticed that part.Aha, so I see. Still niche :smalltongue: But that does help open it up a bit.

Well, since a WIZARD could meet the feat requirements by 3rd level without even having to be human, I stand by my statement that it does seem a bit light.Ah. Didn't realise that. Keeping a wizard back in it was one of my concerns.
Okay, proposed changes to the Ultimate Archer (if anyone has a better name for it, I'm willing to hear it): add an extra PBS tree feat to the requirements, add an extra attack at some mid or later level at max attack bonus as Haste (or make progressively more attacks not have the penalty?). Thoughts? Should the latter replace one of the bonus feats or focuses, or should it just be a feat, or would it be okay to put it in on top of the rest?

Ah, Ok... if you can explain this in the class itself it should help a lot.I was going to, but the classes I based it on didn't have any fluff in their ability descriptions. But yeah, I'll do that anyway.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-05-16, 03:53 AM
I've found that ranged weapons are horribly unoptimized compared to melee attacks (in terms of damage, at least.) Anyways, here's a detailed variant rule you might find useful:

Variant Rule: More Effective Ranged Equipment
If a party is going to be spending most of the campaign in a dungeon, where archers will almost never see a room bigger than their range increment, you can make the following simple change to ranged weapons.

Enhancement bonuses to ranged weapons and their ammunition stack. This means that using a masterwork bow with masterwork ammunition grants a +2 bonus to attack rolls. If a ranger uses a +3 longbow with +2 arrows, he adds a +5 enhancement bonus to his attack and damage rolls.

However, weapon abilities still do not stack, firing a flaming arrow from a flaming bow only does an extra 1d6 fire damage.


One more thing I think could be useful in underwater situations is this:

Cavitating
This weapon enhancement allows a ranged or thrown weapon to ignore all penalties from water. This includes firing while underwater, firing at a creature underwater from land, and firing at a creature on land from underwater.
The weapon also deals one extra point of sonic damage on a successful hit. (This damage is multiplied on a critical hit.)
Price: +1 enhancement; Prerequisites: gust of wind, CL 5th

EDIT: Noted Cavitating's effects on crits.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-05-16, 03:59 AM
Okay, proposed changes to the Ultimate Archer (if anyone has a better name for it, I'm willing to hear it): add an extra PBS tree feat to the requirements,

You haven't addressed the problem with level of entry--WF plus PBS plus two other feats means you must be a fighter or must be human to make it in by level 6. Finding another way to favor martial class entries would be a much better option.


Enhancement bonuses to ranged weapons and their ammunition stack. This means that using a masterwork bow with masterwork ammunition grants a +2 bonus to attack rolls. If a ranger uses a +3 longbow with +2 arrows, he adds a +5 enhancement bonus to his attack and damage rolls.

However, weapon abilities still do not stack, firing a flaming arrow from a flaming bow only does an extra 1d6 fire damage.

That's the way it worked in 3.0, and it seemed to work then, so I don't see any problem with this.

Serpentine
2010-05-16, 04:05 AM
You haven't addressed the problem with level of entry--WF plus PBS plus two other feats means you must be a fighter or must be human to make it in by level 6. Finding another way to favor martial class entries would be a much better option.Well... what do you suggest, then? :smallconfused: And just to check: you mean the aim is to allow martial classes (fighters, rangers, rogues) easier access to it than casters, while still making the entry requirements significant. Right?

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-05-16, 04:15 AM
And just to check: you mean the aim is to allow martial classes (fighters, rangers, rogues) easier access to it than casters, while still making the entry requirements significant. Right?

The aim is not to delay entry past level 6. If you have to wait until level 9 to be a good archer, you're doing something wrong. I don't necessarily agree that the requirements should be significant--they should be simple enough to meet that anyone building an archer can get in with little to no effort at all. Really, I'd be perfectly happy with the only requirement being BAB +6 and PBS, because if you want to be an archer it's trivially simple to get in and if you don't there's no reason to, but I realize others favor more stringent prereqs.


Well... what do you suggest, then? :smallconfused:

Something as simple as "proficient with all martial ranged weapons" would do it, really; no caster (at least in core) has that without a dip into a martial class...and if they're going to give up two or more levels of casting progression, by all means let them take levels in this class. The notion of trying to prevent casters from getting in is a silly one from my perspective--if they're giving up that many casting levels, they're basically turning themselves into martial characters--but if you want to make a one- or two-level dip less tempting, requiring proficiency with all martial ranged weapons is the simplest way to do it.

dspeyer
2010-05-16, 11:20 AM
Shameless c+p from the Age of Warriors thread

Martial disciplines
{table]Name|Author|Concept|Skill|Weapons
Iron Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103297#post8103297)|dspeyer (compiler)|Rapid Archery|Spot|Bows, Throwing Knives, Javelins|
Falcon's Eye (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103296#post8103296)|dspeyer (compiler)|Precision Archery|Search|Bows, Crossbows, Rays|
Nightingale Feather (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103306#post8103306)|dspeyer (compiler)|Mystic Archery|Spot|Bows, Slings, Shurukin|
Black Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5471505#post5471505)|Demented One|Firearms|Spot|firearms, as well as the concussion blaster, death ray, firewand and wandgun|
Falling Star (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10707)|Fax|Deprecated archery|Spot|longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, composite shortbow, greatbow, and composite greatbow|
True Arrow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7780236&postcount=379)|I_got_this_name|Deprecated archery|Spot|light and heavy crossbow, longbow, shortbow, and javelin|
[/table]


Martial Prestige classes:
Spirit Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87501) (by Krimm)
Thousand-Arrow Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76147) (by Demented One|)

Mulletmanalive
2010-05-16, 12:24 PM
Unless this has been changed, the Ultimate Archer has a +6 BAB requirement. There's no way a Wizard is going to get into that unless the player suddenly decides that things have gotten too easy [which has happened to me back when i used to, well, optimise].

On the subject of archery, one really simple house rule to make it more deadly is to have Far Shot affect the minimum ranges of things like Point Blank Shot and Sneak Attack.

Suddenly, the Order of the Bow Initiate, is actually a good class!

A feat that allows you to combine a pair of "as a Standard action" ranged feats as a Full action would be nice too, though i'm not sure how you'd go about wording that to ensure that it precludes its use with spells...

I use this houserule in my Exalted Deeds game and the archer is deadly.

Lix Lorn
2010-05-16, 12:30 PM
I don't know if this would count, but I made a trio of martial classes a while back, one of which was very slightly tinged towards bows.
It's here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8428122&postcount=1) if you like.

Lysander
2010-05-16, 12:55 PM
Here's an idea I had a while back for a bow that can create its own arrows. Costs a bit, but never needing a quiver again has its uses.


SHADOWBOW

+1 enhancement cost

This jet black bow of enchanted ebony can create an endless supply of arrows from shadow material. One simply pulls the string and wills a smoky semi-transparent arrow to appear, which can then be fired as normal. A shadowbow can be used in conjunction with archery feats that fire several arrows at once, like manyshot. Shadow arrows vanish at the end of the round and cannot be stored.

Shadow arrows do not provide a will save to resist damage and are not subject to spell resistance, but cannot be fired into an anti-magic field.

If a shadowbow has additional enhancements or spells on it, the shadow arrows it creates gain those benefits. Real arrows can be fired using a shadowbow, but the shadow property does not benefit them at all.

DracoDei
2010-05-16, 06:25 PM
In my experience, the way archers make up for lacking damage per hit compared to melee is by being able to get off Full-attacks every round with ease under almost any circumstance. Note that as I type this my group is fighting the final boss of a campaign where I took Archery-path Ranger from levels 1 to 20, then another class (taken for pure RP reasons) the two levels after that, so I suppose I should know what I am talking about.

And I see nothing wrong with having to be a fighter or ranger to get in by level 6. Barbarians don't do well in any archery build I can think of off the top of my head, and Rogues can't make the BAB requirement before that.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-05-16, 06:31 PM
And I see nothing wrong with having to be a fighter or fighter to get in by level 6. Barbarians don't do well in any archery build I can think of off the tope of my head, and Rogues can't make the BAB requirement before that.

A Whirling Frenzy barbarian does fine with a composite bow and that extra attack, and what if you want to be an elf paladin focusing on the bow? How about a ranged samurai or hexblade? An archery ranger who wants to pick up a non-archery-focused feat before 6th level?

Lix Lorn
2010-05-16, 06:32 PM
Barbarians don't do well in any archery build I can think of off the tope of my head.
Challenge: Raging Archer Prestige Class?

Also, I'm currently RPing an Elven paladin with a bow.

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-16, 07:38 PM
You forgot this from krimm's stuff - Eaglewing Striker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74810)

And the Demented One also has a PrC that you missed - Twilight Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4895893)

Lix Lorn
2010-05-17, 05:15 AM
I made that Barbarian Archer class.
It's here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8508938#post8508938).

Serpentine
2010-05-17, 07:02 AM
I've finished updating the first post.
Damn, everyone's prestige classes are so much better than mine :smalleek: :smallfrown: :smallbiggrin: Dunno if it's worth bothering to add anything to mine, now... Gonna leave the requirements as is, anyway.

Roc Ness
2010-05-17, 07:25 AM
Okay. Now I feel mighty sad that I haven't actually done anything for the archer when I see all this come together... :smalleek::smallfrown::smalltongue:

Oh well. This is going to be a great resource though, I can see that! :biggrin:

DracoDei
2010-05-17, 08:30 AM
I have added a single sentence to my PrC that may be of importance: They are willing to sell any of the magic items listed EXCEPT the Saddles of Jark. This includes the Armor of Jark to non-Jark Blink-Dogs, or other Good/Neutral aligned creatures with teleportation abilities.

EDIT: Also put back in a QUOTE (which I was using as a sidebar) that didn't make the copy/paste initially due to the way the forum works.


However, weapon abilities still do not stack, firing a flaming arrow from a flaming bow only does an extra 1d6 fire damage.

Not sure but that abilities DO stack... my ranger character that I mentioned was using a +5 Distance Holy Composite Longbow firing +1 Undead-Bane Silver Arrows in the tougher battles towards the end (he used non-magical arrows for the easier stuff).


Cavitating
This weapon enhancement allows a ranged or thrown weapon to ignore all penalties from water. This includes firing while underwater, firing at a creature underwater from land, and firing at a creature on land from underwater.
The weapon also deals one extra point of sonic damage on a successful hit.
Price: +1 enhancement; Prerequisites: gust of wind, CL 5th
Looks good to me.

Lix Lorn
2010-05-17, 09:58 AM
Not sure but that abilities DO stack... my ranger character that I mentioned was using a +5 Distance Holy Composite Longbow firing +1 Undead-Bane Silver Arrows in the tougher battles towards the end (he used non-magical arrows for the easier stuff)
I think they mean that having two of the same ability doesn't stack.

DracoDei
2010-05-17, 10:21 AM
I think they mean that having two of the same ability doesn't stack.

I can only plead lack of sleep to explain why I missed both this and the fact that ULTIMATE ARCHER DOES currently require 3 feats, not 2.

Lix Lorn
2010-05-17, 10:43 AM
XD
I believe you. Honest. :smalltongue:

Serpentine
2010-05-17, 10:53 AM
I can only plead lack of sleep to explain why I missed both this and the fact that ULTIMATE ARCHER DOES currently require 3 feats, not 2.So what's my excuse? :smallconfused:

Lix Lorn
2010-05-17, 11:36 AM
You were too busy being awesome?

Serpentine
2010-05-17, 10:50 PM
I'll take that! :biggrin:

DracoDei
2010-05-28, 02:13 AM
Just a quick thought:

Sniper's Patience
You can see the path of the arrow in your mind before it ever leaves the string. If it is not acceptable, you simply do not fire.
Prerequisites: Far Shot (PH), +7 base attack bonus
Benefit: Once per round if one of your ranged attack rolls would miss by 3 or more you do not actually fire that specific shot (including all arrows of a Many-Shot). This still takes the same amount of time/actions as actually firing, but conserves ammunition (and spells such as True Strike since the attack is never actually made), prevents the need for repeated hide checks, and overall preserves the element of surprise.



Like a lot of my stuff, this is really niche, but at the very least it helps save on expensive arrows, and with an ACTUAL sniper/assassin build it could be invaluable. If it is too powerful, we can throw on Precise Shot, and/or Improved Precise Shot as pre-requisites, or drop the bit about conserving True Strike.

In Jan 2013, I had the following conversation about this feat:
20:13 <DracoDei >Very niche, but also very strong.
20:14 <DanielDraco >Yeah, incredibly niche. I see the utility in it...hrm, I wonder if there might be a way to make it an eensy bit more useful. Because it doesn't actually make you any more powerful. It just makes you less likely to get unlucky.
20:15 <DracoDei >If you are really sniping, it means you have a 15% chance of ever missing.
20:15 <DracoDei >If your target is somewhat stationary.
20:16 <DracoDei >It just takes longer to line up the shot sometimes.
20:17 <DanielDraco >Yeah, it's basically like a +7 bonus on your first attack in a surprise round. Which is...eh, really cool to have but will not actually do you very much.
20:17 <HockeyCid >If I am gonna be investing a feat in it, I feel like you could make it any miss at all
20:17 <HockeyCid >Especially given that there are all sorts of other ways for your shot to be messed up, thus totally ruining your whole plan
20:17 <DracoDei >Such as?
20:18 <DanielDraco >Being spotted.
20:18 <HockeyCid >That's probably venturing into Very High-level material, but Protection From Arrows for one
20:18 <HockeyCid >That
20:18 <HockeyCid >Deflect Arrows or any equivalent
20:18 <DracoDei >Miss chances?
20:18 <HockeyCid >and even monks have that
20:18 <HockeyCid >Yes, blink/blur/displacement, etc.
20:19 <DracoDei >Protection from Arrows is bypassed by magical weapons.
20:19 <DracoDei >And thus DOESN'T apply at high-level.
20:19 <HockeyCid >Alright, so you got by one
20:19 <DanielDraco >I would add onto it a damage bonus versus flat-footed foes. The problem with it now is that it near-guarantees your first attack...but that is ONE attack. One attack is /nothing/, in the grand scheme of things.
20:19 <DracoDei >Miss chances... yeah.
20:20 <DracoDei >DanielDraco: Depends. There are a lot of things designed to make that count, especially in homebrew.
20:20 <HockeyCid >I'm just saying that there are other factors in play other than your attack roll, so giving yourself away because you fired and then, for whatever other reason unrelated to your attack roll, missed
20:20 <DracoDei >I could link you to a discipline on the subject.
20:20 <HockeyCid >Or the Tome Assassin
20:20 <HockeyCid >An extreme example, but hey
20:20 <DanielDraco >I can't think of terribly many. Death attacks and true strikes are all I've seen.
20:20 <DracoDei >Haven't read that.
20:21 <DanielDraco >But if you say they exist, then I'll relent to that.
20:21 <DanielDraco >So yeah, if there's enough stuff out there to make the first attack actually matter, then this is a solid feat.
20:21 <HockeyCid >Diamond Mind strikes come to mind
20:22 <DanielDraco >Ranged attacks, cid
20:22 <HockeyCid >Ah, right
20:22 <HockeyCid >derp

Serpentine
2010-05-28, 02:37 AM
Yay, saved! ^_^

I like it. It's nice.

Lix Lorn
2010-05-28, 06:29 AM
I really like that! It's so logical. XD
I now want to play a Vulcan sniper...

Frog Dragon
2010-06-07, 09:21 AM
I'm reposting this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103458) stuff I made here.

True Shot
As you shoot your arrows go past the winds and find the spot to hit regardless of circumstances.
Prequisites: Precise Shot +3 BaB
Benefit: Your ranged projectiles halve weather penalties and magical AC bonuses that only apply against projectiles. It also goes halves effects such as Wind Wall only inducing a 50% miss chance.

Defensive Shot
Even as the fighters are upon you, you find the moments to fire and reload you projectile weapons.
Prequisites: Point Blank Shot BaB +8
Benefit: You no longer take Attacks of Opportunity for shooting, reloading or drawing ammunition when threatened.

Mobile Shooter
Mobility and shooting your bow walk side by side with you. You can shoot while running and release a torrent of arrows mid-trip.
Prequisites: Shot on the run
Benefit: You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon after a move action. You may also make a standard attack with a ranged weapon after a double move action.

DracoDei
2010-06-08, 08:18 AM
New Cross-bow centered discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155361) (also good for bows and thrown weapons, may or may not be redundant with the other disciplines here).

BLiZme.2
2010-06-10, 12:22 AM
Shadow bow is way way way to expensive there is a magic item in Magic item compendium that dose the same job better (can go in AMF) for 1000Gp if I remember the cost right. Plus if I remember right that item lets you have an unlimited supply of magic arrows for 1000 go + the cost of a magic weapon (not ammo) with the same properties (but the second bit could just be me remembering my musings on how to abuse that item with sketchy rules interpretations (the first bit is totally legit though.))

Thomar_of_Uointer's variant rule nicely nerfs the +19 arrow cheese trick (+5 bow with +5 total properties firing +1 arrows wit +9 in properties) but replaces it with something arguably worse but then again it may be more reasonable that way eh you win somr you lose some.

Cieyrin
2010-06-10, 10:57 AM
I humbly present some of my own creations:

The Crossbow Slinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125255)

Staff Slings and Supplements (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120190)

Enjoy! =D

EDIT:
Thomar_of_Uointer's variant rule nicely nerfs the +19 arrow cheese trick (+5 bow with +5 total properties firing +1 arrows wit +9 in properties) but replaces it with something arguably worse but then again it may be more reasonable that way eh you win some you lose some.

That's not exactly cheesy, considering arrows tend to get expensive if you're enhancing them before you use 'em. +10 arrows are 4k a piece, a volley of them (5 if Rapid Shotting, more if you throw in things like Haste and Time Stands Still) costs you 20k+ per round, which is nothing to sneeze at. Plus, I see no reason why archers shouldn't have something nice, considering archery damage output tends to look paltry compared to melee.

Also, I remembered another full archer class that deserves mentioning by Kellus: The Sagittarius (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117933).

WhiteHarness
2010-06-10, 03:05 PM
Because of their long life span...Witches revere the natural order above all else, and abhor any unnatural practices, such as necromancy or undue prejudice. They will fight vehemently to protect the natural world, holding the world at a higher level than any number of lives...Witches tend to avoid meaningful relationships or marriage, due to their long lifespan...Timeless Body (Ex): A witch’s lifespan is very long, and they do not age. At level 3, the witch no longer visibly ages, and takes no penalties from aging. In addition, the witch’s maximum lifespan is doubled
Does anyone else note the irony of these witches supposedly revering natural order, while enjoying unnaturally lengthened lifespans, in defiance of what nature intended for their individual species/race?

Just sayin'...

Frog Dragon
2010-07-09, 05:20 AM
Made the Sublime Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156145) a while ago. Just to get the ball rolling again. :smallsmile:

Temotei
2010-07-11, 02:27 AM
Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8896502&postcount=1) are two melee archery feats. They're also in my signature.

Lyndworm
2010-07-22, 04:23 PM
There are also the Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75248) and the Sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150215) base classes. I've been thinking I might combine them into my own Homebrew, but that might be a bit awkward to post (even giving credit where it's due).

Serpentine
2010-07-24, 01:23 AM
Well, I've updated it. How about some judgements? For some context, here (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=4913)'s a character I'm playing (note: people in VT's game shouldn't look at that). I don't know where to go with it. Any thoughts?

Vaynor
2010-07-24, 01:58 AM
Does anyone else note the irony of these witches supposedly revering natural order, while enjoying unnaturally lengthened lifespans, in defiance of what nature intended for their individual species/race?

Just sayin'...

Well, it's not my concept. They're based off of the witches in Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. I agree though, it is a bit contradictory, although in the novels the witches are an entirely separate race and do not gain their extended life span by choice or magic. That wouldn't make much sense with a PrC, though. :smallwink:

Iferus
2010-07-24, 02:46 AM
You should also see Dreamscarred Press' Marksman base class. It's very cool!