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Ar-Sakal
2006-06-14, 12:59 AM
Well, since Batman has been posted fighting just about everything, I guess we should ask how many rounds would it take Batman to take the Owlbear.

This may not be as easy as it seems, and Batman would probably need a batrinquilzer from his batgun to sleep the owlbear. I don't see batarangs causing enough damage...

King_of_GRiffins
2006-06-14, 01:21 AM
Before anyone has a chance to say it...

Owlbear wins in a strait up fight, but Batman wins with prep-time.

I just had to say that.

Anyway, an owlbear? Come on. Batman is usually agaisnt killing others, but in the case of animals and such I don't believe I have seen such mercy given. If he really just wanted to have some fun, he'd use his vast fortune to buy a bunch of explosives, place them everywhere the owlbear could possibly be, and watch as they explode simultainiously, sending gorey owlbear parts all over the batmobile he is watching this from.

But seeing as how out of character exploding an entire forest for the sake of killing a single creature that poses minimal threat is, Lets reconsider. Batman uses a single bat-arang(whatever), either electoshock or explosive(small range), killing it easily. If neccesary, he ends up throwing three, kills it and moves on to the real plot/villian.

Arturius
2006-06-14, 01:57 AM
Please stop the madness. No more "someone vs. someone else" threads PLEASE!

Alchemistmerlin
2006-06-14, 02:11 AM
The owlbear because it's less lame.


As for the "Batman against killing thing"

Actually Batman (and superman) are incredible hypocrits in this light.

They won't kill HUMANS. They'll kill animals, sentient computers, etc.

In fact, Superman once killed off an entire planet of sentient computers. Sentient as in: Can think, feel, have emotions, etc.

I'm not sure what makes humans special that they're immune to the killing wrath of the heros, because it's obviously not the ability to reason that does it.

Krytha
2006-06-14, 02:47 AM
I'm not sure what makes humans special that they're immune to the killing wrath of the heros, because it's obviously not the ability to reason that does it.



It's because we scream louder.

Owlbear FTW

Closet_Skeleton
2006-06-14, 03:33 AM
Well, since Batman is clearly a high level PC, an Owlbear's CR of 4 would mean that it's hardly a worthy challange.

KayJay
2006-06-14, 04:17 AM
Does the Owlbear have any class levels/ is it some kind of Owlbear god? If so, then it may stand a chance. Otherwise, it'd obviously be Batman... Completely physical attacks against high-tech gadgetry makes it like pitting a caveman against someone in a tank.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-06-14, 04:25 AM
Does the Owlbear have any class levels/ is it some kind of Owlbear god? If so, then it may stand a chance. Otherwise, it'd obviously be Batman... Completely physical attacks against high-tech gadgetry makes it like pitting a caveman against someone in a tank.


The owlbear actually has exactly 1 level in "Anti-cheese"

This gives him immunity to character-cheese and plot armor.

This, unfortunately, leaves batman curled up in a ball on the floor crying.

Rei_Jin
2006-06-14, 04:33 AM
The owlbear actually has exactly 1 level in "Anti-cheese"

This gives him immunity to character-cheese and plot armor.

This, unfortunately, leaves batman curled up in a ball on the floor crying.

Owlbear FTW!!! ;D

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-14, 04:39 AM
Okay--first, we're talking a bat and an owl, two predators, two creatures of the night.

Secondly, Batman has had experience with wild animals, and in B:TAS carries a variety of tranks with him for any given situation. In "Almost Got 'Im" Penguin trapped him in an aviary and sicced some venemous hummingbirds and an angry cassowary on him. He wet down the hummingbirds by tripping the sprinklers and then used one to knock out the cassowary by sticking it in the foot with the hummingbird's bill.
In "Demon's Quest" he trapped a large wildcat in his cape, then tossed in a knockout gas container, waited a moment for the stuff to take effect, and dropped a snoring cat onto the floor.
In "Animal Act" several tech robberies were committed by a gorilla and later, two bears. Nightwing recognized them as denizens of the circus he grew up in, and that their odd behavior was caused by mind control chips planted by The Mad Hatter.

So Batman can deal humanely with animals, if need be. The only notable exception is Poison Ivy's abominations, like a foliage elephat that was set on fire, or her human-plant hybrids, which are often sliced up or doused in weed-killer....

Zzarchov
2006-06-14, 07:17 AM
Well, both are hybrid names, lets compare.

A bat would lose to an Owl

A man would easily lose to a bear, unless properly vigilant from watching The Colbert Reports Threatdown.


But what FEW realise, is that there is no such thing as "an Owlbear" just "The Owlbear". Its not a hybrid mutant, but actually a bear superhero.

A young bear was orphaned by a two bit poacher, his heart filled with vengeance he was inspired by the.."terrifying" visage of the Night Owl and vowed to become the terror in the hearts of poachers "The Owlbear", planning his war on humanity from deep within the bowels of "the bear cave", funded with the most high tech gear the catholic church can afford.

After all, bears must be catholic since..well..
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/Zzarchov/IsaBearCatholic.jpg
(From Edible dirt, http://catmydog.comicgenesis.com)


So as you can see, being the Bear equivalent of Batman..and Bears being more powerful than Humans, Its clear The Owlbear and his side kick the cub wonder "chickadee" would actually win, easily.

McHarty
2006-06-14, 12:36 PM
I guess we should ask how many rounds would it take Batman to take the Owlbear.



I'd say something like 28 800 rounds of preps... (or 48Hours)

And 12 more in combat...
9 just trying to look cool
2 trying to impress the owlbear
1 actually using some kind of stuff he prepared to put the owlbear to sleep or somehow incapacited.

Tokeloshe
2006-06-14, 03:10 PM
If I remember correctly, Batman in the animated series has handled full hybrids before and won, whereas the Owlbear has not faced Batman before, and frequently loses to just ordinary humans anyway.

Therefore, Batman based on past evidence.

Now Batman versus the Vorpal Bunnywolf, that is another question!

Zzarchov
2006-06-14, 06:15 PM
How do we know about the past adventuers of "the owlbear"?

CelestialStick
2006-06-15, 01:37 AM
How do we know about the past adventuers of "the owlbear"?


LOL. I have to say that I really get a kick out of the whole "THE Owlbear" concept.

Assuming a regular owlbear, I'd give it to Batman without any prep time as he has Bat-tranks on his Bat-belt as standard gear. If it's THE Owlbear, however, that's a tougher case. The thing is that everyone knows about Batman and his exploits, so I'd say that The Owlbear uses his vast but secret resources to plan well in advance to take out Batman. Batman regularly gets his cowl handed to him on his first contact with any villain, and the villain usually gloats and leaves him alive. The Owlbear, however, is too smart for that, so after he defeats Batman during their first encounter, he kills Batman, ensuring no rematch, and then gloats.

Then Superman comes and kills The Owlbear with a flick of his finger, crushing The Owlbear's skull, and everyone cries big crocodile tears over the death of Batman, as he had gotten insufferably arrogant anyway. ;)



If I remember correctly, Batman in the animated series has handled full hybrids before and won, whereas the Owlbear has not faced Batman before, and frequently loses to just ordinary humans anyway.

Therefore, Batman based on past evidence.

Now Batman versus the Vorpal Bunnywolf, that is another question!

Ah, but he Bat anti-vorpal collar that comes standard as part of Bat-thermal-underwear renders Batman Bat-impervious to the vorpal bunnywolf. :D

Zzarchov
2006-06-15, 09:38 PM
Heres another thought..

What if Vehicles are involved?

We know the Bat-mobile is pretty powerful, but what about the Owl-Mobile?

Every car I've ever seen a bear drive has been made of clouds and able to fly, usually powered on hugs.

If the Owl-Mobile is based on such technology imagine what its abilities might include? Its already going to be incorporeal, able to fly..both things the batmobile cannot do.

Kontonshin
2006-06-16, 01:29 AM
Must... fight... urge... to start Batman vs. Night Owl thread...

Zita_G.
2006-06-16, 02:01 AM
What would happen is the owlbear would first kill Robin therefore Batman would need another side-kick(excluding Batgirl) Then they would fight crime together.... or at least until Batman gets board with the owlbear and decides to push him off one of the cities tall buildings^^. OK well theres my two cents.

razmafft1
2006-06-16, 02:23 AM
Batman needs no sidekick, just read the old Detective Comics issues! He kicked some serious butt in those days.

I'm calling this one in favor of Batman, because all he needs is: You guessed it, preparation.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-06-16, 02:51 AM
Must...resist...urge...to start...Batman vs. Carebears...thread...

CelestialStick
2006-06-16, 04:13 AM
Must...resist...urge...to start...Batman vs. Carebears...thread...


LOL. Batman would have trouble with my D&D campaign's NRA Carebear. :D

Kish
2006-06-16, 01:40 PM
I must say, I get the impression Batman would have trouble with an orc in your campaign, because he's just a guy in a rubber suit. :P

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-06-16, 06:07 PM
Actually Batman (and superman) are incredible hypocrits in this light.

They won't kill HUMANS. They'll kill animals, sentient computers, etc.

As I recall, in the JLA with the white martians, Batman was A-OK with killing one of them and then writing "I KNOW YOUR SECRET" in blood on its chest, or something. Which struck me as really out of character, but le sigh.

Brett Wong
2006-06-17, 03:24 AM
i say owlbear wins.

Zzarchov
2006-06-17, 03:41 PM
Batman needs no sidekick, just read the old Detective Comics issues! He kicked some serious butt in those days.

I'm calling this one in favor of Batman, because all he needs is: You guessed it, preparation.

But Owlbear is also just as good with preperation, I mean he's got his own lab in the bear cave. How do you know Batman could outprepare Owlbear?

Lord Herman
2006-06-17, 04:54 PM
Don't forget the Owlbear is a master of deception. All information Batman bases his preparation on is actually misinformation spread by the Owlbear's extensive espionage network.

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 07:31 PM
I must say, I get the impression Batman would have trouble with an orc in your campaign, because he's just a guy in a rubber suit. :P

LOL! Actually I've long thought about having both Batman and Superman in my campaign world. I do actually have Superman, but I never got around to "stating" a Batman. Part of the problem is that Batman traditionally fought crime in large urban areas, swinging from tall buildings, and these things pretty much don't exist in most D&D worlds. Since he's the Dark Knight I thought about making him an actual knight riding around on a horse, or maybe riding on a wingless flying horse-like creature that Gary Gygax introduced in some adventure way back in the 1980s, but I wasn't sure I could keep enough of the flavor of the original Batman if I had him riding even a flying horse.

Under 3rd Ed (3.0 & 3.5) I've though about making him a 20th level monk with maybe assorted various other classes and prestige classes but never really sat down to create him on paper. Another problem I always encounter is how to deal with the Bat-gadgets. Should I make them technological or magical? Should I give Batman magical powers of some sort, or keep it all technological? There's also the issue of whether to make his suit just a set of clothing or body armor--it hardly seems fair to give a monk a set of body armor that allows the use of monk abilities while being worn.

While I don't like the deified Batman of these boards, I've always liked the "real" Batman of the tv shows and at least the old comics. It's not clear how reliable the descriptions on these threads are. "Batman always wins with preparation time" might or might not be the current comic book canon, but it's certainly not the Batman of the earlier comics or of the electronic media.

The earlier Batman could make a fine high-level NPC if I were ever willing to make the various issue decisions (armor or not? magic or not? etc), but there's never been any doubt in my mind that he's just a high-level human. He doesn't have superpowers and couldn't seriously on his own challenge someone who does.




But Owlbear is also just as good with preperation, I mean he's got his own lab in the bear cave. How do you know Batman could outprepare Owlbear?


Don't forget the Owlbear is a master of deception. All information Batman bases his preparation on is actually misinformation spread by the Owlbear's extensive espionage network.

Yes, you two are on to something. It's important to remember too that just as everyone knows all of Superman's weaknesses (by reading the comic books, of course!) everyone knows all about Batman's weaknesss (vulnerabilities: everything; superpowers: none) so Owlbear has already fully prepared to kill Batman before Batman has even heard of Owlbear. So not only does Owlbear win, but Batman never knows what killed him. :D

Tarlonniel
2006-06-17, 07:46 PM
Actually I've long thought about having both Batman and Superman in my campaign world. I do actually have Superman

What?? Man oh man, can I play in your campaign world, pleeeeease? ;) Or, at the very least, would you post the build for us to see?

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 08:48 PM
What?? Man oh man, can I play in your campaign world, pleeeeease? ;) Or, at the very least, would you post the build for us to see?

You're always welcome to play in my campaign, sweetie. :) I should add that I've also long seriously considered adding Wonder Woman (though just calling her Diana) and given some serious thought to what magical items (bracers, etc.) and powers she would have the Wonder Woman of my day had a stupid invisible plane that wouldn't seem appropriate for D&D, but the bracers of deflection and maybe even the goofy lasso of truth would be. The Wonder Woman of my day was, like Bruce Wayne, only a human, but a human of near physical perfection. In the recent cartoon series, however, she's gotten a serious retooling with superhuman strength and the ability to fly (and thankfully no invisible airplane).

I also have the functional equivalent of the Green Lantern power ring. In fact one of the party members has it, but doesn't have any idea what it can do. (One of the other players noticed that in the lore they learned about the ring, the enemy who defeated the original ringbearer had a ring made for herself with a yellow diamond, but I'm not sure if the player whose character has the ring actually knows anything about the Green Lantern.)

When I first created my D&D world nearly 30 years ago, I populated it with everything I liked from other sources: Valar (gods above the gods) from Middle Earth, Vulcans from Star Trek, Jedi from Star Wars, and Superman from DC Comics, to name a few that come to mind. Over time I gradually shifted away from things I'd acquired from other fictional worlds, remaking things with enough differences to be unique but enough similarities to keep the original spirit of at least some of the items.

When I ran my first camppaign, the character actually saw Superman in action, as he helped save the day by killing some Giant Demons participating in the Demon War that rocked the northern world near the end of that first campaign. Later they actually got to meet him, and he took one of the characters, a female bard, for a flight, much to the consternation of two of the male characters who had been competing for her affections. (Ok, I confess, her name was Leia and the two male characters were named Luke and Han. This took place obviously after Star Wars came out but before The Empire Strikes Back. Luke actually was a Jedi, but Han belonged to a fighterish character class called Sworder of the Circle.)

Here's the most recent take on the deity that grew out of Superman. I don't have the actual hit points or ability scores, though I have in mind a Strength score of 200 and similarly-high scores for Dexterity and Constitution. In my campaign world, only his grandfather is supposed to have greater strength, and only his grandmother greater speed. (His parents were destroyed in the destruction of his home universe--or at least that's what everyone thinks. :D) There might actually be construction and foul beasts left over from the First Age which have higher strength scores.


Kaltorel
The Justice Bringer; Supamner, The Arm of Truth
Domains: Air, Good, Protection, Strength, Sun, Travel, Time
Acolyte of the Fist 10/Devoted Defender 10/Fighter 20/Paladin 20/Monk 20/Wind Disciple 10
Medium-Sized Outsider
Divine Rank: 27
Alignment: NG
Holy Symbol: Silver K-rune inside a silver diamond on a black field, or a red S-rune inside a yellow sunburst on a sky-blue field

Kaltorel is the grandson of Narpä, Vilonė, Dakras and Anamor. Kaltorel’s father was Valgiltar, son of Narpä and Vilonė; Kaltorel’s mother was Sūldal, daughter of Dakras and Anamor. Valgiltar and Sūldal, growing tired of the eternal warfare of the later First Age, left Nador and founded a new realm in the Great Emptiness Beyond, where they had Kaltorel. After the Musid defeated the Bilrid, Maza and Mazord, and ejected Maza and Mazord from Nador, the Bilrid eventually found the other realm. Annonid sages believe that the Bilrid managed to destroy the other realm, and with it Valgiltar and Sūldal, and a host of Shertid who had followed Valgiltar and Sūldal, but not before Valgiltar and Sūldal sent the infant Kaltorel in a bubble of their power back to Nador. The Musid, finally sensing the danger to the far-off other realm, made great haste to get there, but did not arrive in time. They found only the debris of the other realm and no sign of either Maza and Mazord nor Valgiltar and Sūldal. Humans in Nador raised Kaltorel during the Absence of the Musid, so he feels uncomfortable with mortals revering him.

Like his grandfather, Kaltorel has developed a strong following among combat specialists, especially monks and paladins, and athletes, both those competing on strength and endurance and those competing on speed and agility. Annonid courts of justice often display the symbol of Kaltorel. Kaltorel played a significant role in defeating the demonic forces of Shauglot, Demon Prince of the Swamps, in the Demon War of 2999 SA. While he generally upholds the laws set down by his grandparents Narpä and Vilonė, he prizes justice above law and will occasionally intervene directly despite their law against it. Sages debate whether he intervened in the Demon War with or without authorization from Narpä and Vilonė. Some sages say that Vilonė’s creation of the Empire of the Eastlands at the end of the Demon War demonstrates that Kaltorel intervened with authorization. Other sages, however, argue that Kaltorel acted in the cause of justice without authorization, thereby pushing his grandfather into creating the Empire in hopes of increasing stability in eastern Nador.

Doctrine: Revere not me, but rather justice and truth, in that order. Defend the weak and innocent; help those in need. Kill only as an extreme last resort to protect life and liberty.


Speed: 500 ft., fly 1500 ft., burrow earth 1125 ft., burrow lava 1200 ft., swim 1350 ft.

Special Qualities: Blindsight (to the limits of his divine senses),

Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality (Kiss of Forgetfulness, Kiss of Remembrance, Reverse Time, etc.), Annihilating Strike, Battlesense, Blinding Speed, Clearsight, Divine Alacrity, Divine Battle Mastery, Divine Blast (Chill Breath, Heat Vision), Divine Dodge, Divine Fast Healing, Divine Elemental Control, Divine Monk, Divine Paladin, Divine Reaction, Divine Shield, Divine Weapon Focus (unarmed), Divine Weapon Specialization (unarmed), Extra Domain (Air), Extra Domain (Protection), Extra Domain (Travel), Extra Domain (Time), Extra Energy Immunity (Fire), Extra Sense Enhancement (Darkvision), Extra Sense Enhancement (Hearing), Extra Sense Enhancement (X-Ray Vision), Free Move, Increased Damage Reduction (x2), Indomitable Strength, Power of Truth, Soaring Flight, Stride, Supreme Initiative, Virtual Damage Invulnerability.

Divine Elemental Control (unique salient divine ability): Kaltorel can create a whirlwind like an air elemental, a tidal wave or vortex like a water elemental, or move earth, up to and including tectonic plates. Kaltorel could therefore create or dissipate a hurricane, tornado or tsunami, trigger or stop an earthquake, move a mountain, etc. The length of time Kaltorel needs to create such effects varies with the power of the effect. He might require but one round to shove enough boulders into a river to damn a tidal wave, while he might need ten minutes to stabilize a tectonic plate to prevent major aftershocks from a major earthquake. Kaltorel also can use Push like an earth elemental (essentially using Improved Bull Rush) and set things afire like a fire elemental.

Soaring Flight (unique salient divine ability): Kaltorel can fly with perfect maneuverability at a speed equal to three times his land speed. He can burrow through earth at a speed equal to 75% of his air speed, through molten lava at 80% of his air speed, and through water and similar fluids at 90% of his air speed. Given time to build up speed using a run action while flying Kaltorel can achieve even more impressive rates of speed. For each minute he flies using a run action, Kaltorel doubles his speed to a maximum of 10 times his normal running flight speed, or 50 times his normal flying speed, which equals 75,000 feet per round, 750,000 per minute, or approximately 8523 miles per hour. Using his Divine Celerity salient divine ability Kaltorel could increase his speed to approximately 12,784 miles per hour. Using his Divine Alacrity salient divine ability Kaltorel could fly at approximately 17,045 miles per hour, or nearly enough to achieve orbit. Using both abilities at the same time he could fly at approximately 21,307 mph, or enough to escape Nador’s gravity entirely. Kaltorel could move even faster by using the Free Move salient divine ability twice more in each round, achieving a velocity of 24,716 mph. Because of his virtual invulnerability to physical damage, Kaltorel could conceivably use a massive gravity well like that of a gas giant or star to propel himself even faster.

Virtual Damage Invulnerability (unique salient divine ability): Kaltorel is virtually invulnerable to physical damage. All damage done to Kaltorel except by fragments of his home universe becomes subdual damage. Kaltorel’s body is so hard, furthermore, that any object striking him runs a risk of breaking. Treat any object (including natural weapons) striking Kaltorel as though the striker’s attack had been a sunder attack made against the object itself, but only to the extent to which the damage the object inflicts does not exceed Kaltorel’s damage reduction.

Feats: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Circle Kick, Cleave, Close-Quarters Fighting, Combat Reflexes, Dash, Dodge, Eagle-Claw Attack, Expertise, Fists of Iron, Fleet of Foot, Great Cleave, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Hold the Line, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Knock-Down, Leadership, Lightning Fists, Mantis Leap, Mobility, Off-Hand Parry, Pin Shield, Power Attack, Power Lunge, Run, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, Throw Anything, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Weapon Specialization (unarmed), Whirlwind Attack.

Tarlonniel
2006-06-17, 10:01 PM
Zowie. I would so be a cleric of the mighty Kaltorel if I ever played in a campaign of yours :D

CelestialStick
2006-06-17, 10:20 PM
Zowie. I would so be a cleric of the mighty Kaltorel if I ever played in a campaign of yours :D


Cool! That would be awesome! We had a nindurai warrior (like a combined samurai/kensai) who was a follower of Kaltorel and once he saw a red streak flying through the sky and followed the sign of Kaltorel back to the big city where they were having celebrations over the rare sighting! :D

Zzarchov
2006-06-18, 01:46 AM
Won't it be cheesy when players realise what the holy symbol they are holding actually is?

CelestialStick
2006-06-18, 03:07 AM
Won't it be cheesy when players realise what the holy symbol they are holding actually is?


Hmm. The symbol of truth and justice? I don't think so. :)