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View Full Version : Batman versus Evil and improved Batman



InaVegt
2006-06-07, 06:42 PM
Can batman win this?

dragonseth
2006-06-07, 06:51 PM
I believe Batman outsmarted himself when they met the Justice Lords...

Holy_Knight
2006-06-07, 08:35 PM
Becoming evil is never an improvement.

CelestialStick
2006-06-07, 08:58 PM
I believe Batman outsmarted himself when they met the Justice Lords...

Wait, which Batman defeated which Batman? :D Did Justice League Batman defeat Justice Lords Batman? Was that in a comic or in the JL series?



Becoming evil is never an improvement.
He didn't say "evil so improved," he said "evil and improved." ;)

Ing
2006-06-07, 10:42 PM
wait....batman is evil now?

CelestialStick
2006-06-07, 10:47 PM
wait....batman is evil now?
Well one of him is anyway. ;)

bluish_wolf
2006-06-07, 11:02 PM
It's like a mirror battle from an arcade game. That would mean that the improved evil one is some sort of boss that the computer is playing as. Naturally, the other batman would win, 'cause he is being controlled by the player. Even if he loses, the player could just continue by putting extra tokens in.

dragonseth
2006-06-07, 11:55 PM
Yes. The true Batman is so hardcore that when he dies, time actually reverses itself to moments before that happened. We know this phenomenon as: respawning.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-08, 01:05 AM
He didn't say "evil so improved," he said "evil and improved." ;)
Yeah, I know. *Since there was no reason given for the improvement though, it seemed like that was the intent, sort of like "New and Improved", which clearly must mean "Improved because New".


Yes. The true Batman is so hardcore that when he dies, time actually reverses itself to moments before that happened. We know this phenomenon as: respawning.
Better yet:

Guardian of Gotham: The Sands of Time

available on Gamecube, PS2, and X-Box, wherever video games are sold

sun_tzu
2006-06-08, 02:09 AM
...
Batman loses.
Sorry, I voted for Batman to win in every thread so far except the Thrawn one...But this is a battle where he has greater odds of losing.
The only thing that might give him an edge is if his determination to protect people gives him a moral boost the evil Batman lacks...

KayJay
2006-06-08, 04:30 AM
I think we need more details than just that he's "evil and improved". If he's improved then technically he should win a greater proportion of the time, but the fact that they're evil doesn't neccessarily make them better, even if they are more willing to go further. I recall when Tim faced an evil future version of himself semi-recently, and still kicked his ass :)

Ing
2006-06-08, 08:49 AM
where did said evil batman come from?

dragonseth
2006-06-08, 11:06 AM
On the 'new and improved' thing you mentioned, there's something about that that bothers me. Which is it? If it's new, that means nothing's come before it. If it's improved, that means something's come before it.

Tokeloshe
2006-06-08, 12:08 PM
Lawful Neutral Batman (because he is more concerned with what is lawful then what is good) wins, owing to the fact that in comics physics, debateably good always beats insane evil.

bluish_wolf
2006-06-08, 01:18 PM
Lawful Neutral Batman (because he is more concerned with what is lawful then what is good) wins, owing to the fact that in comics physics, debateably good always beats insane evil.

Batman's more likely Chaotic Neutral. If he were Lawful Neutral, he would have just adhered to tradition and became a normal detective or police officer.

sun_tzu
2006-06-08, 01:42 PM
Batman's more likely Chaotic Neutral. If he were Lawful Neutral, he would have just adhered to tradition and became a normal detective or police officer.
Nah. He's lawful because he adheres to his strict code. It doesn't matter if this code isn't the law of the land.

bluish_wolf
2006-06-08, 02:26 PM
Nah. He's lawful because he adheres to his strict code. It doesn't matter if this code isn't the law of the land.

Chaotic characters can have a code of morality as well. Only the most chaotic characters act solely on impulse. Maybe Neutral he's, I suppose. Just not lawful.

InaVegt
2006-06-08, 04:21 PM
Well, let's give evil and improved batman some special abilities

1. Insane intelligenc (67 D&D int, 10 is average and 18 is already superhuman)
2. Natural invisibility
3. Nightcrawler like teleportation

dragonseth
2006-06-08, 04:24 PM
Actually, I think the teleportation might tip it to the original Batman. Nightcrawler travels through a hostile, volcanic dimension when he teleports. In one of the cartoons at least, this was revealed when they made a machine to slow down his teleportation time. They wanted to see what exactly he's doing. I bet the original Batman could trap him there.

KayJay
2006-06-08, 04:47 PM
... Not only was that the marvel universe, but it was a cartoon :/ The only way they managed it was because they had Forge, who is unbelievably good with machines- far better than Batman is. I'd say he could make Reed Richards- type gizmos, but the only problem is that his science knowledge isn't at a Reed Richards level. I'm more referring to the fact he could probably turn toasters into prosthetic legs, and the like. Obviously if we're going to be giving him 67 INT, then he's going to win easily. That's beyond god-like and he could probably predict the future just by extrapolating where individual atoms would be at a given point in time, or something equally ridiculous. Not to mention the rest of his abilities.

dragonseth
2006-06-08, 04:56 PM
Well, by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, he'd have a hard time pulling that off.

Wyvern_55
2006-06-08, 10:05 PM
This actually happened at one point.

After Bruce's back was broken by Bane, Azreal (Jean-Paul Valley) took up the crest of 'Batman' for a time (knightfall story arc), Azreal deemed Bat's suit insufficient and upgraded it to a futuristic level. Azreal eventually became corrupt and the batman that we all know and love came back and defeated the futuristic evil batman, while still recovering from a broken back! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Knightfall

Holy_Knight
2006-06-08, 10:27 PM
About the alignment thing--I really only see one possibility, and that's lawful good. The hard-ass version of lawful good, to be sure, (as opposed to Superman's nice kind of lawful good) but lawful good.

CelestialStick
2006-06-08, 11:16 PM
About the alignment thing--I really only see one possibility, and that's lawful good. The hard-ass version of lawful good, to be sure, (as opposed to Superman's nice kind of lawful good) but lawful good.

Batman today is so dark, twisted and paranoid that he barely qualified as good. He never follows the rules, so he's hardly lawful. Sure there are specific comics that have the Gotham City police corrupt, but in general the government is view in those comics as being on the same side, so it's not like he's breaking the law laid down by an evil government. Batman is chaotic, and probably somewhere around neutral.

Superman has broken laws too, and I'm thinking that although he's generally paladinal in personality, he's more interested in justice than in law, so he's really neutral good.

One of the reasons why it's so hard to identify the alignment of a superhero is that the alignment system conflates two values. On the one hand, "lawful" refers to government control, while "chaotic" refers to individual liberty. These are the political meanings of the law-chaos axis. On the other hand, however, law and chaos refer to personal discipline v. lack of personal discipline. Since supporters of government control aren't necessarily any more disciplined personally than are advocates of individual liberty, the conflation of a political value with a personal value makes the law-chaos axis of the alignment system more confusing than clarifying.

Ing
2006-06-08, 11:39 PM
ok where did this near god like teleporting evil batman come from agian? what's hsi back story...

also with all these diffrences from batman is this really a batman vs batman thread....or is it batman vs some other guy?

bluish_wolf
2006-06-08, 11:46 PM
There was this guy, who, after being bitten by a radioactive blink dog, gained all the abilities of blink dogs. Namely, he could teleport short distances. He thought this was neat and decided to become a superhero. So, naturally, he called himself Batman. Before long people pointed out to him that there was already a hero called Batman and that was just a cheap teleporting rip-off. This drove the evil Batman into a murderous rage and he killed all those who insulted him or looked the wrong way at him. From that point on, he was known as Evil and improved batman.

Ing
2006-06-08, 11:49 PM
thank you

NOW I KNOW

ANd KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

G.I. JOOOOOOOOOOOOE!!!!!

CelestialStick
2006-06-09, 12:37 AM
There was this guy, who, after being bitten by a radioactive blink dog, gained all the abilities of blink dogs. Namely, he could teleport short distances. He thought this was neat and decided to become a superhero. So, naturally, he called himself Batman. Before long people pointed out to him that there was already a hero called Batman and that was just a cheap teleporting rip-off. This drove the evil Batman into a murderous rage and he killed all those who insulted him or looked the wrong way at him. From that point on, he was known as Evil and improved batman.


How did the blink dogs get radioactive in a pre-modern fantasy world? Also, if he had been bitten by radioactive blind dogs, he would have called himself Dogman. ;)

Ing
2006-06-09, 12:39 AM
before the bite he was blind...(the blink dog was actually his service dog) not knowing what bit him he presumed it was a bat

CelestialStick
2006-06-09, 12:41 AM
before the bite he was blind...(the blink dog was actually his service dog) not knowing what bit him he presumed it was a bat
Dogman!
Nanna nanna nanna nanna!
Dogman!
Nanna nanna nanna nanna!
Nanna nanna nanna nanna nanna na!
Dogman!