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Gralamin
2006-05-31, 11:56 PM
One more of things couldn't possibly hurt ;D.

Now we have Superman in one corner, a night industrictible being.

In the other we Have post-Secret Wars Molecule man. This guuy can control all matter, create spatial warps, and do just about anything.

Now to get one thing out of the way: Supes couldn't drop a mountain on him. In secret wars Molecule man drops a mountain on the heroes, so supes would just be flattened.

There are many points but I think this goes to Molecule Man.

sun_tzu
2006-06-01, 04:14 AM
Whoever gets the first punch wins.

dragonseth
2006-06-01, 08:55 AM
I would have to side with sun_tzu on this one.

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 01:38 PM
One more of things couldn't possibly hurt ;D.

Now we have Superman in one corner, a night industrictible being.

In the other we Have post-Secret Wars Molecule man. This guuy can control all matter, create spatial warps, and do just about anything.

Now to get one thing out of the way: Supes couldn't drop a mountain on him. In secret wars Molecule man drops a mountain on the heroes, so supes would just be flattened.

There are many points but I think this goes to Molecule Man.
I don't know much about Molecule Man, but the fact that he dumped a mountain on someone doesn't mean that someone can't dump a montain on him. If he did dump a mountain on Superman, it would just hurt, but not kill. Superman has collided at high speeds with entire asteroids and come away fine. I presume Molecule Man can do something more than just drop a mountain, or sun_tzu wouldn't have commented that whomever gets the first punch wins.

By the way, does Molecule Man have super speed too? If not, then most likely Superman would be able to get in the first punch.

sun_tzu
2006-06-01, 02:09 PM
Molecule Man can control molecules. Any molecules. That should, normally, include Superman's body.
Like Dr Doom once said, the only thing preventing Molecule Man from being quasi-unstoppable is his own mind...He's pretty weak-willed.
So the question is: Does Superman knock MM out (since MM doesn't have super-speed, easy), or does he wait (to figure out what MM is up to, or try to talk him out of it, or anything else Superman could conceivably do unless he was aware he was in immense danger) long enough for MM to collect his wits and destroy the Kryptonian?

Forderz
2006-06-01, 03:16 PM
MM moleculizes some kyptonite up, BAM Supes is TKO'ed.

(no, I have never read any REAL comics, I stick to the web)

RemoJr
2006-06-01, 03:36 PM
yeah, i'd have to say MM would win. I mean heck, he has part of the beyounder's power.

Gralamin
2006-06-01, 07:24 PM
um no he doesn't, doom showed molecule man what he could do and opened up his mind. Doom said (in chapter 11 of secret wars) "Inside you is great power! Know you this -- of all the great and mighty in the universe, you are the mightest--save for doom!"
Then doom kinda uses his power to destroy his fear.
So if Superman acted like his normal self and stood there for a second before doing anything, molecule man (if he thinks superman is a bully) can turn supermans clothes and part of him into kyrponite.
He does have super speed - kinda. He can create a spatial warp almost immedantly allowing him to teleport.

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 06:54 AM
MM moleculizes some kyptonite up, BAM Supes is TKO'ed.

(no, I have never read any REAL comics, I stick to the web)
Superman has repeatedly beaten foes armed with Kyrptonite, so making Kryptonite doesn't automatically beat Superman.


um no he doesn't, doom showed molecule man what he could do and opened up his mind. Doom said (in chapter 11 of secret wars) "Inside you is great power! Know you this -- of all the great and mighty in the universe, you are the mightest--save for doom!"
Then doom kinda uses his power to destroy his fear.
So if Superman acted like his normal self and stood there for a second before doing anything, molecule man (if he thinks superman is a bully) can turn supermans clothes and part of him into kyrponite.
He does have super speed - kinda. He can create a spatial warp almost immedantly allowing him to teleport.

I don't think the spatial warp would save him from superspeed; it just lets him transport himself quickly. That's a very different matter from moving quickly.

I think that turning Superman himself partly into kryptonite , however, would be pretty hard for Superman to survive. There was an episode of Lois and Clark, on the other hand, where someone kisses Superman with kryptonite lipstick and the kryptonite get into his system, gradually weakening him. Finally he goes into the reaction chamber of a nuclear reactor and burns it out. I'm not Superman could do that though if Molecule man turned half of him into krytponite.

Murky_Pool
2006-06-02, 07:18 AM
Has anyone calculated how much kryptonite is on earth?

All these superman vs threads are full of people saying

"XXX Man got some Kryptonite and..."

It would be interesting to work out, I strongly suspect that the total would weigh more than superman himself.

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 11:03 AM
Has anyone calculated how much kryptonite is on earth?

All these superman vs threads are full of people saying

"XXX Man got some Kryptonite and..."

It would be interesting to work out, I strongly suspect that the total would weigh more than superman himself.
LOL!

xyzchyx
2006-06-02, 09:21 PM
Molecule Man can control molecules. Any molecules.Untrue. The unstable molecules in the Fantastic Four's costumes were impervious to MM's attempts to manipulate them.


That should, normally, include Superman's body.If the FF's costumes are impervious, think Superman's invulnerability could very conceivably render him likewise.

In all frankness, I think some comic readers just like ganging up on Superman because he's so uber powerful.

Pax_Chi
2006-06-02, 11:19 PM
Untrue. *The unstable molecules in the Fantastic Four's costumes were impervious to MM's attempts to manipulate them.

If the FF's costumes are impervious, think Superman's invulnerability could very conceivably render him likewise.

In all frankness, I think some comic readers just like ganging up on Superman because he's so uber powerful.

Since the thread author specifically mentions Post-Secret Wars Molecule Man, that's the version that needs to be considered in a debate. And this guy was someone who could casually repair several planets at once with a wave of his hand, send hundreds of people into a stasis dimension, control all matter and energy with a whim and who had cosmic beings quaking in fear of him. For a certain point, the Molecule Man was the second most powerful being in the Marvel Universe, next to the Beyonder. He could also alter his perceptions to see cosmic phenomena, detect changes in molecular structure, know what was happening on the other side of existence, etc.

There's been various retcons and debates since then as to whether or not the Beyonder and MM were really that powerful or if the Beyonder was just a cosmic cube that the other cosmic beings were merely humoring.

Regardless, Superman vs this version of the Molecule Man should essentially amount to the Molecule Man turning Superman into anything that suits his fancy at the time, including a normal, unpowered human, letting Superman know just how one-sided the fight was, then zap Superman back to normal and send him on his way.

Superman's not standing up to a guy who stood up to a guy that treated Celestials like crash test dummies and effortlessly defeated Galactus.

sun_tzu
2006-06-03, 04:50 AM
Untrue. The unstable molecules in the Fantastic Four's costumes were impervious to MM's attempts to manipulate them.

If the FF's costumes are impervious, think Superman's invulnerability could very conceivably render him likewise.

In all frankness, I think some comic readers just like ganging up on Superman because he's so uber powerful.
I stand corrected regarding my earlier statement...But I don't like "ganging up" on Superman. Heck, I voted for him to win in the "Superman vs Silver Surfer" thread.
The way I see it, Supes' extremely powerfull. He'd win most fights. But there are things that trump his might.

CelestialStick
2006-06-03, 05:15 PM
Untrue. The unstable molecules in the Fantastic Four's costumes were impervious to MM's attempts to manipulate them.

If the FF's costumes are impervious, think Superman's invulnerability could very conceivably render him likewise.

In all frankness, I think some comic readers just like ganging up on Superman because he's so uber powerful.

I have to agree with the motivation for ganging up. Nobody bothers to gang up on Antman because a) his main superpower is the ability to shrink to the size of an ant while retaining full human strength and b) hardly anyone who hasn't seen the old SNL skit with Margot Kidder and the superheroes have even heard of Antman. Everybody, on the other hand, has heard of Superman and knows that he's super-powerful.

Edit: Oh, I meant to add that I also agree that if Molecule Man couldn't manipulate the molecules in the suits of the Fantastic Four, he probably can't manipulate Superman's molecules either.




I stand corrected regarding my earlier statement...But I don't like "ganging up" on Superman. Heck, I voted for him to win in the "Superman vs Silver Surfer" thread.
The way I see it, Supes' extremely powerfull. He'd win most fights. But there are things that trump his might.

No need to stand; have a seat. ;)

You know, as much as a like Superman and consider him one of the most powerful superheroes, I was at first willing to give that fight to Silver Surfer. But when I read that the Hulk actually just bit of Silver Surfer's head, I had to turn around and hand it to Superman. Superman can overcome just about anything that can be overcome by physical force. I mean he shifts tectonic plates and destroys asteroids with physical force.

Tarlonniel
2006-06-03, 05:22 PM
Out of curiosity, where did the Fab 4 get costumes made of unstable molecules? What are unstable molecules? Sounds dangerous :o Something Reed cooked up after they were cosma-zapped?

xyzchyx
2006-06-03, 06:02 PM
Supposedly something Reed discovered.

In actuality it was just a hand-waving way for Marvel to explain how the FF's costumes stretched, turned invisible, or didn't burn to ashes, as required.

Finwe
2006-06-03, 07:04 PM
"Unstable molecules" is often used to describe explosives such as nitroglycerin. So, if the F4 do anything too fast... BOOM! :P