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Reijas
2006-05-31, 02:44 PM
Ok, who wins?

HabbakukUnknown
2006-05-31, 03:17 PM
superman, because juggernaut's bio says


when juggernaut starts moving no power on earth can stop him

since superman is not from earth, he would punch him and stop him easily

nothingclever
2006-05-31, 03:20 PM
superman, because juggernaut's bio says


since superman is not from earth, he would punch him and stop him easily
but by being able to punch Juggernaut he must also inhabit the planet earth and as such he is a power on or within it's atmosphere. :P

Corestimah
2006-05-31, 04:27 PM
If someone has the tablet and the other thingy and says the words than Juggernaut is powerless and Superman wins. If they fight under the light of a red sun than Juggernaut wins. If you have both circumstances then the guy who said the words wins ;D

Finwe
2006-05-31, 04:29 PM
superman wins (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3934651591022114445)

chibibar
2006-05-31, 04:56 PM
Superman wins :) why? x-ray vision, find the crystal, eye beam shatter the crystal... boom :) superman wins :)

KayJay
2006-05-31, 04:57 PM
Juggernaut's strong but slow. Superman can pick him up and throw him about so he gets no leverage. I'd say Superman wins.

Ma3lstr0m
2006-05-31, 05:33 PM
Guys... Juggernauts powers come from a god, not that crystal if anyone picks it up, he gets the same power, but that's been taken care of, since it's a part of his body, after he deafeated Cyttorak.

While currently Juggy doesn't have any special powers apart from strenght and endurance, the classic Juggernaut cannot be killed, doesn't get tired, doesn't need air, water or food, and cannot be harmed by anything non-magical.

Supes could run circles around him, but it's a stand still - Juggy can't hurt Superman, and Superman cannot hurt Juggernaut.

PerpetualNewb
2006-05-31, 05:39 PM
Juggernaut is essentially Doomsday: both are land-bound, both are incredibly strong, and both are nigh-indestructible. Supes can handle Juggernaut the same way he handled Doomsday: through him into space. Every single one of these "Superman vs" threads keeps forgetting that Superman can fly. ANY land-bound opponent is going to be at a natural disadvantage, because Superman can choose when the battle will take place and retreat if things are going poorly. He literally has the high ground.

DraxtonSmitz
2006-05-31, 05:59 PM
I know I read somewhere that Juggernaut got in a fight with someone who hit him so hard that he flew across the US and when he landed he was knocked so silly that he forgot who hit him.

sun_tzu
2006-05-31, 06:22 PM
According to Marvel, Juggernaut's abilities are in the "lift 100 tons" category. That's impressive...But in the DC universe, power levels are way higher. Superman wouldn't break a sweat.

Kazuel
2006-05-31, 06:35 PM
Jug's powers are magic based.

Supes weak vs Magic

Juggernaught wins

PerpetualNewb
2006-05-31, 06:59 PM
Jug's powers are magic based.

Supes weak vs Magic

Juggernaught wins

::) I hate these "Superman automatically loses to Magic" arguements. Supes is weak against magic. He doesn't automatically fall over like a little girl and die. All it means is that against a magical attack, he'll take damage like a normal person. Of course, super speed + flying means he should never be hit by the Juggernaut in the first place, so the magic angle is moot anyways. Again, grab Juggernaut from behind, throw him into space. Easily accomplished by Supes using a combination of his speed, strength, and flight powers.

tgva8889
2006-05-31, 07:03 PM
I thought Juggernaut was a Mutant member of the Brotherhood. When did this change?

PerpetualNewb
2006-05-31, 07:08 PM
I thought Juggernaut was a Mutant member of the Brotherhood. When did this change?

In the movie and possibly the Evolution cartoon. Not sure about the Ultimate line of comics. In all the other comics, he's always been a normal person (Xavier's step-brother in fact) who got his powers from a god.



Juggernauts powers come from a god, not that crystal if anyone picks it up, he gets the same power, but that's been taken care of, since it's a part of his body, after he deafeated Cyttorak.

nothingclever
2006-05-31, 07:49 PM
I know I read somewhere that Juggernaut got in a fight with someone who hit him so hard that he flew across the US and when he landed he was knocked so silly that he forgot who hit him.
I'm pretty sure that's the one with Onslaught and really I could see why. That whole comic was pretty much Hulk's thing as he was the only one able to beat him while all the other superheroes just sacrificed themselves doing little to actually stop him. I wouldn't count that comic for anything as it was a special event and it isn't even a real testament to Hulk's strength because his mind was shut down so he could build enough rage to reach that power level.

Evik
2006-05-31, 08:02 PM
Superman would win...
He is alot smarter than Juggernaught for one thing...
Superman can fly, so he can stay out of reach....
Superman is fast...Juggernaught couldnt catch him unless Superman let him...
If it came down to it he could just smack Juggernaught into Orbit or imprison him in the Phantom Zone

Kazuel
2006-05-31, 08:06 PM
::) I hate these "Superman automatically loses to Magic" arguements. *Supes is weak against magic. He doesn't automatically fall over like a little girl and die. *All it means is that against a magical attack, he'll take damage like a normal person. *Of course, super speed + flying means he should never be hit by the Juggernaut in the first place, so the magic angle is moot anyways. *Again, grab Juggernaut from behind, throw him into space. Easily accomplished by Supes using a combination of his speed, strength, and flight powers.

Have you ever actually read a Supes comic? When does he ever do that to someone he's just met? he's so over confident in his invulnerability, that he'd get knocked the BLEEP out. Sure he's effected by magic like a normal person, have you ever seen Juggernaught punch a normal person? People who say supes would win have him fighting completely different from how the comics portray him.

nothingclever
2006-05-31, 08:14 PM
Have you ever actually read a Supes comic? When does he ever do that to someone he's just met? he's so over confident in his invulnerability, that he'd get knocked the BLEEP out. Sure he's effected by magic like a normal person, have you ever seen Juggernaught punch a normal person? People who say supes would win have him fighting completely different from how the comics portray him.
Well at least it's not as bad as it could be like...
"Superman announces he is no longer limiting himself and uses his full power
He is now infinitely powerful
He blows on the enemy and isntantly destroys him"

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-05-31, 08:20 PM
I've found comapring DC and marvel characters VERY unsatisfying... just too different.

Personnally i think Superman would win but i like the juggernaut more...... so Cain wins that battle

tgva8889
2006-05-31, 08:56 PM
I seriously think that almost Anyone vs. Superman, Superman gets a large upper hand for being a near effigy of GOD. I mean, I'm sure if he were evil, he could fly into the Earth's core and blow up the planet. Yeah, Juggernaut could probably kill him in a couple hits, if Superman didn't drop a mountain on him first. By Mountain, I litterally mean Mountain. And I think Juggernaut is so much cooler than Superman.

Kazuel
2006-05-31, 09:00 PM
in how many comics has superman actually dropped a mountain on someone?

tgva8889
2006-05-31, 09:06 PM
in how many comics has superman actually dropped a mountain on someone?

None, I'm just saying he can probably do it. He's Superman.

nothingclever
2006-05-31, 09:10 PM
None, I'm just saying he can probably do it. He's Superman.
He definitely can in some of his incarnations.

ElfLad
2006-05-31, 09:16 PM
With classic Juggernaut, Even if Supes dropped a mountain on Juggernaut, he would still be alive, it would just take forever to pound his way out of the mountain.

P.S. I'm Clark Kent, b****!

Skyserpent
2006-05-31, 09:31 PM
well... can;t the juggernaut survive space travel? He's like, universally immune...

Kazuel
2006-05-31, 10:38 PM
None, I'm just saying he can probably do it. He's Superman.

and that's MY point is that people have these fights going how they would use the characters powers, not how the character him/herself would use them. If I had Supes powers, I'd be invincible cause I'd never move slow enough for someone to hit me. But that's not how Supes is in the Comics. Maybe I'm letting my geekness take control here, but isn't the point of these Vs threads to see which one would win and not who has the most abuseable set of powers?

LordOfNarf
2006-05-31, 10:54 PM
The catch to Juggy's powers are if he can gain any momentum. If supes tied him up real tight, would iron bars around him, and dropped him in a pool of cooling lava, so that he was imprisoned in rock, he would be useless.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-05-31, 11:22 PM
Have you ever actually read a Supes comic? When does he ever do that to someone he's just met? he's so over confident in his invulnerability, that he'd get knocked the BLEEP out. Sure he's effected by magic like a normal person, have you ever seen Juggernaught punch a normal person? People who say supes would win have him fighting completely different from how the comics portray him.

I dunno. Superman's been punched by Wonder Woman, whose powers are mystical in origin and who could probably put her hand through a normal person's chest, and been OK so I think how it works is that even though it's magical in origin it's still muscle.

That said, Lord of Narf's post is pretty much how I imagine this fight going down. Jug lumbers towards Supes, Supes flies out of the way, and while Jug's still looking around in confusion Supes restrains him by, say, tying him up with an iron girder, melting it with heat-vision, then cooling it rapidly with his frost-breath. Or something like that.

Krytha
2006-05-31, 11:31 PM
superman wins (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3934651591022114445)

That was just weird...

StudlyDuck
2006-05-31, 11:46 PM
Juggernaut lost a lot of power during Onslaught's attack. He's toast.

Classic Juggernaut on the other hand, was practically invulnerable to physical damage. A fight between the two would basically consist of:
1) Superman finds a way to immobilize Juggernaut.
2) Juggernaut eventually breaks free and hunts Superman down.
3) Rinse and repeat.

LordOfNarf
2006-05-31, 11:50 PM
4) superman flies out of the way, repeat steps 1-2 as nessesary

Rex_Hondo
2006-05-31, 11:52 PM
I dunno. Superman's been punched by Wonder Woman, whose powers are mystical in origin and who could probably put her hand through a normal person's chest, and been OK so I think how it works is that even though it's magical in origin it's still muscle.

Well, depends on what point in continuity, and what you mean by OK. Yeah, she doesn't off him in one shot, but it's still a knock-down drag-out fight.

As for the actual subject at hand, yeah, Juggy has strength and nigh-infinite durability, but he has no extra speed or agility. If he manages to get the first punch in, it'll rock the Man of Steel back on his heels, but then Supes starts playing the range and speed game.

Gotta go with the Big S on this one, hands down.

Holy_Knight
2006-06-01, 12:02 AM
I dunno. Superman's been punched by Wonder Woman, whose powers are mystical in origin and who could probably put her hand through a normal person's chest, and been OK so I think how it works is that even though it's magical in origin it's still muscle.
Thanks for posting that, I think people tend to exaggerate the extent to which Superman is weak against magic.

Maybe it's some kind of bias or psychological thing, but I find myself picking Superman to win pretty much any fight he's in, and don't really like the idea of other people being more powerful. I tend to look at Superman as the standard of power, so to speak, so no one can beat him.

...except Batman, of course. ;D

Rex_Hondo
2006-06-01, 03:55 AM
Thanks for posting that, I think people tend to exaggerate the extent to which Superman is weak against magic. *


I've pretty much decided that even though it's a completely rhetorical exercise, it'll probably be best for my own sanity if I pretty much disregard the bulk of the posts that essentially boil down to:

OMG!!! Superhero A totally pwns Superhero B!!

As for myself, I don't think of it as being "weak against" magic so much as "vulnerable to" magic. Whether that makes any real difference or not... :P

KayJay
2006-06-01, 04:39 AM
Juggernaut is powered by magic, but his attacks aren't magical. Kind of like when Captain Marvel wants to have the edge in a Superman fight, he actually channels the magic he has INTO his fists, before they really start to hurt Superman. You can literally see his fists kind of sparking when he does this.

Full powered juggernaut isn't necessarily HURT by Superman, but that doesn't mean Superman can't win. Throwing him into orbit/ the sun I'd count as a Superman win, even if juggernaut isn't technically "defeated".
When Juggernaut is moving, he may not necessarily be stopped, but Superman could basically just pick up the ground Juggernaut is charging on instead, break it up, and then you have an airborne juggernaut that Superman can knock about at whim.

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 08:25 AM
Thanks for posting that, I think people tend to exaggerate the extent to which Superman is weak against magic.

Maybe it's some kind of bias or psychological thing, but I find myself picking Superman to win pretty much any fight he's in, and don't really like the idea of other people being more powerful. I tend to look at Superman as the standard of power, so to speak, so no one can beat him.

...except Batman, of course. ;D

Yeah, I pretty much have to agree with you there.

The whole reason they even made Supermann vulnerable to magic is that he'd won so many times against people armed with kryptonite that it had become difficult again to write plot lines challenging him.

This is also why writers of Superman routinely ignore many of his superpowers. In Lois and Clark, for instance, people were routinely hitting Superman with rays and beams and so forth, even though he was fast enough to dodge out of the way or even snatch the ray gun out of their hands before they could pull the trigger. In one episode of Lois and Clark, the badguys hit him in the face with some beam that blinded him. Finally it wore off and he went back for a rematch. Instead of letting them fire it at him, however, he zipped in at superspeed and snatched it away before they could fire.

The problem from a dramatic standpoint is that Superman is so powerful that if the writers let him always use his powers he pretty much wins all the time without a struggle. So the writers have to contrive ways to challenge Superman. Batman, on the other hand, is a mere human, with no superpowers, and thus easy to challenge. I think that's also why at least more recent comic book authors have written stories in which Batman beats Superman. If they wrote about Superman beating Batman it would be obvious, and maybe therefore boring. We all know that Superman could kill Batman with a flick of a finger, so where's the fun in that? It's like another dog bites man story. But Batman beating Superman? That's so extremely unlikely that it becomes even better news that man bites dog.

I think that's a big part of what some prejudices the "Superman is weak, stupid and ineffectual;Batman is omicisent and omnipotent" people against Superman and in favor of Batman. That and the fact that Batman's dark and twisted, whereas Superman is so good that almost nobody can live up to his ethical standards. :D

By the way, I thought that Juggernaut was Xavier's half-brother, but I looked him up on the Marvel site and see that he is indeed only a half-brother. I think I got that half-brother idea from X-Men: Evolution (which I also call X-Teens) but I might just be misremembering.

One thing I didn't understand about Juggernaut in the movie is how he could break out of the floor. I thought he had to get moving first to be unstoppable. Or is he just too strong for wood to hold him? Because the metal of his restraints sure held him.

Edit:I might add that many of the better stories from both The Amazing Adventures of Superman and Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman involve challenging Superman in some way other than brute force, kryptonite, or magic. Of course taking Lois hostage is always a good one, but sometimes the challenges were more emotionally-driven than that. Good writers have always been able to find ways to challenge Superman even without kryptonite or magic.

Kanashimi
2006-06-01, 08:27 AM
Juggernaut would because:

He's the Juggernaught, B**CH!

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=15862

;D ;D ;D

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 08:33 AM
Juggernaut would because:

He's the Juggernaught, B**CH!

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=15862

;D ;D ;D
This is something like the fifth link someone has posted to something about the Juggernaut, but it takes too long for it to download. Can anyone just tell me what it's about? And does it really conatin something relevant to who wins, or do people just have a juvenile fascination with the phrase "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch?" because I have to tell you that that's gotten old very quickly.

Kanashimi
2006-06-01, 08:48 AM
Eh, it's one of those kich catch phrases. *Yes, it's juvenille, but it's one of those funny inside jokes that friends can have.

The summary of it is someone took an episode of the cartoon X-men and added their own silly banter over it, with the repeated phrase of, "I'm the Juggernaut, b**ch" repeated numrous times. *It is done in a very urban dialect and, while initially funny, really did not need to be more than about 2 minutes long. *The actual thing is more than 15, I think.

Be patient, CS and the fad will pass, as they all have.

When was the last time you heard someone say "groovy Baby" or "Shagadelic" ala Austin Powers.

Off topic ended, my apologies for the interruption.


[announcer voice]
We now return you to your previously scheduled programming, Superman Vs. Juggernaut, already in progress.

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 08:57 AM
Eh, it's one of those kich catch phrases. Yes, it's juvenille, but it's one of those funny inside jokes that friends can have.

The summary of it is someone took an episode of the cartoon X-men and added their own silly banter over it, with the repeated phrase of, "I'm the Juggernaut, b**ch" repeated numrous times. It is done in a very urban dialect and, while initially funny, really did not need to be more than about 2 minutes long. The actual thing is more than 15, I think.

Be patient, CS and the fad will pass, as they all have.

When was the last time you heard someone say "groovy Baby" or "Shagadelic" ala Austin Powers.

Off topic ended, my apologies for the interruption.


[announcer voice]
We now return you to your previously scheduled programming, Superman Vs. Juggernaut, already in progress.
Ah, thanks for the explanation?

I actually recall when some kid in the local D&D groups (back in Iowa where we played in a store) seemed incapable of talking other than in an imitation of Austin Powers. Now I actually enjoyed the satire of Bond, but I mean every single word like Austin Powers? That got old very quickly. The kid also played a cleric and whined every time someone asked him for some healing magic. Altogether he was a really annoying D&D player. ;)

Ebon_Drake
2006-06-01, 09:01 AM
Juggernaut would because:

He's the Juggernaught, B**CH!

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=15862

;D ;D ;D
And yet in that Juggers gets horribly owned by Gladiator (The goliath-looking mother******).
Gladiator = Superman with a mohawk.

Yeah, Superman FTW.

Ma3lstr0m
2006-06-01, 10:04 AM
And yet in that Juggers gets horribly owned by Gladiator (The goliath-looking mother******).
Gladiator = Superman with a mohawk.

Yeah, Superman FTW.
Nope, Gladiator = Superboy with a mohawk. Hyperion was Marvel's Superman ;)

ObadiahtheSlim
2006-06-01, 10:53 AM
Superman wins cause he uses god mode.

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 11:16 AM
Nope, Gladiator = Superboy with a mohawk. Hyperion was Marvel's Superman ;)

Gosh, I'm impressed at the comics knowledge of the people here! :)

Red_Decker
2006-06-01, 12:14 PM
I'd go with Juggernaut because I've played too many RPGs.

In Mayfair's DC heros when supes faces a magical force the needed ability goes to 4 which just a quick and easy measure is about twice as strong as California's Governer when he did Terminator. So everytime he hits Juggie his Str drops to 4, everytime Juggie hits Supes his Invulnerability drops to 4. [This is the original Juggernaut here I haven't read enough comics recently to know if he's changed]
Oh yeah Supes starts with a str of 25 while Juggie has a str of about 19. For those keeping score out there Doomsday has a Str of 27
Supes does his traditional I'm invulnerable you can't hurt me start to a fight and Juggie punches him, Supes may well get knocked out from the first punch due to his magic weakness. Also Juggernaut has enough strength to break out of steel girders and concrete to immobalize Juggernaut you need to go extreme, some of these Supes could do: drop Juggernaut into a errupting Volcano then cool the lava with his superbreath encasing him in rock. This would hold him for awhile but it wouldn't hold him forever, this was done in the comics with Concrete. If Supes were to wrap him in an adamanium bar this would hold him for awhile but he'd have to superheat it first to mold it then cool it before Juggie can break out no easy task but Supes may be able to do it.

All of this however requires Superman to know these things.

Speculation: Superman may do the presenting himself to his enemy for two reasons. First, honor he declares they stop their actions Second to measure their power when facing new opponents.

In conclusion even the toss juggernaut into space scenario puts Superman at risk of being hit because he has to hold Juggernaut. So Juggernaut either wins, or superman finds someone that knows how to stop the Juggernaut and he wins.

I Think Juggernaut wins but Superman does have a chance of winning. But this isn't a hands down fight for either of them.

In the Red

Reijas
2006-06-01, 01:22 PM
Wee, I am glad this topic generated so much debate :). I thought it would be interesting with them both being nigh invulnerable to see how people took it.

So, let me throw this out:

If Juggy is already moving, how does Superman stop him? Tying him up doesn't stop his momentum so he can break free without much of an issue.

CelestialStick
2006-06-01, 01:33 PM
Wee, I am glad this topic generated so much debate :). I thought it would be interesting with them both being nigh invulnerable to see how people took it.

So, let me throw this out:

If Juggy is already moving, how does Superman stop him? Tying him up doesn't stop his momentum so he can break free without much of an issue.


Just get behind him and give him a big old momentum-enhancing push into orbit. ;)

ed
2006-06-01, 01:44 PM
while hyperion was definitely marvel's supes, the rest of the shi'ar imperial guard was modeled after the legion of superheroes. :>

superman would win b/c irrespective of whether juggy's got momentum or not, superman could simply continue flying away and leading juggy towards an area that where supes could destroy the terrain w/ his heat vision, thereby leaving juggy w/ no footing. as juggernaut is falling, supes swoops down w/ his superspeed and flings juggernaut into low earth orbit.

battle over.

ed

Ma3lstr0m
2006-06-01, 02:02 PM
Just get behind him and give him a big old momentum-enhancing push into orbit. ;)

He'll come back - Juggy can float in any direction*, you know.
He can't fly, but if he loses cotact with the ground, he can float to his desired destination. Nothing stops the Juggernaut ;)

*He did that in his first appearance, when Marvel Girl lifted him with het TK.

KayJay
2006-06-01, 08:19 PM
He'll come back - Juggy can float in any direction*, you know.
He can't fly, but if he loses cotact with the ground, he can float to his desired destination. Nothing stops the Juggernaut ;)

*He did that in his first appearance, when Marvel Girl lifted him with het TK.


HUH?!? So he jumps, "loses contact with the ground", then can float about? I've never seen this before O.o

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-06-02, 02:49 AM
Perhaps the late hour is affecting my mind, but I think many of these vs. threads could be solved with a simple "Kick him in the crotch". It's a simple but woefully underused technique (although I think Poison Ivy gave Joker a shot in the pills in the B:TAS ep "Harley and Ivy"). Yellow sun, god's magic, whatever. That's gonna hurt right there, I don't care who y'are. ;D

KayJay
2006-06-02, 04:14 AM
Wee, I am glad this topic generated so much debate :). I thought it would be interesting with them both being nigh invulnerable to see how people took it.

So, let me throw this out:

If Juggy is already moving, how does Superman stop him? Tying him up doesn't stop his momentum so he can break free without much of an issue.
What Juggernaut has when he moves is momentum in one direction. Superman could easily give him upwards momentum i.e throw him. He'd retain all of his forwards momentum though.

HabbakukUnknown
2006-06-02, 05:31 AM
when hes moving with all his momentum forwards just push him sideways. he'll fall over and the ground will shake. and i gon't recall juggernaut ever floating.

CelestialStick
2006-06-02, 06:30 AM
What Juggernaut has when he moves is momentum in one direction. Superman could easily give him upwards momentum i.e throw him. He'd retain all of his forwards momentum though.

Gravity clealry has more power than Juggernaut because he doesn't keep doing in a straight line but rather follows the curve of the earth. Superman, on the other hand, is more powerful than gravity and can easily achieve escape velocity. On that basis alone I'd give it to Superman, but there's more to it than that. If Superman gets behind Juggernaut and gives Juggernaut a push, he can actually allow Juggernaut to do what everyone falsely says he can do, which is move unstopped by anything--including gravity. So with a push from Superman Juggernaut travels in an actual straight line, not a curved line around the Earth's surface--thus achieving escape velocity and leaving the Earth. At just over escape velocity, however, it will take centuries or milennia if not longer before Juggernaut actually crashes into anything in space, so for the duration he's out of things (assuming he can live forever, which I doubt). Thus, with just a push, victory Superman.

Rex_Hondo
2006-06-04, 03:51 AM
...Which he's unlikely to do, given his reverence for life.

Unless somebody tells him somewhere along the way that hard vacuum is no real inconvenience to the Juggernaut. Then Superman just tries to put him into a stable orbit, or possibly another planet. I hear Venus is nice this time of year.

Brett Wong
2006-06-04, 05:51 AM
Depends on witch juggernaught your talking about the oribonalone had no bounds to power and COULDNOT be killed in any way shape or form he can raise barriors of magic around himself that make him evan more invincible than he already was. The origonal also could could lift as mutch if not MORE than supes, but hes definitley slower. but it wont matter cause he cant die! Hed just turn on the magic shield barrier around himself and superman couldnt touch him. and if he threw him into outer space witch i GREATLY doubt hed just not need to breath and be pissed off for like 1000 years untill he floated back to earth because he cant get tired hell just swim his way back.

Juggernaught wins...

UNLESS your talking about the weak ass nerfed juggernaught AFTER his power got split up.

Then supes wins hands down...

Dracon
2008-10-18, 10:22 AM
Im sorry to post on this thread so late down the line but guess what people.

If u really want to know who wins Superman or Juggernaut just pick up the first 2 issues of the limited edition comics

Entitled Marvel Vs Dc

it begins with the juggernaut attacking the X-Mansion then appearing to punch Prof X next moment hes punching the Daily Planet and Superman appears behind him asks him what hes doing then juggernaut lands a punch on superman
surprisingly superman doesnt budge then superman lands a punch and juggernaut goes flying thru a building lands on the other side of the world and is knocked stupid he doesnt remember who hit him then he reappears in the marvel universe

FatJose
2008-10-18, 01:45 PM
surprisingly superman doesnt budge then superman lands a punch and juggernaut goes flying thru a building lands on the other side of the world and is knocked stupid he doesnt remember who hit him then he reappears in the marvel universe

Yeah, Juggernaut's always been a pushover...which really goes against the nature of his power. Never read Marvel vs. DC but I would have guessed as much since Hulk lost a fight with Supes and Hulk usually can take out the Juggernaut with little hindrance

kpenguin
2008-10-18, 02:06 PM
Posting in a two year old thread? Thread Necromancy, with a spell descriptor of [Evil]

sealemon
2008-10-18, 05:40 PM
Ok, so here's the deal.

As has been pointed out earlier, Superman does in fact have partial amnesia: When fighting against a land based brick he forgets that he has flight, speed (And the ability to combine the two powers into the ultimate bull rush), as well as heat vision. He's perfectly contect to trade blows with the likes of Doomsday, The Hulk, Mongal, ect.

So, no, he probably wouldn't dodge out of the way or use his flight.

On the other hand, the Juggernaut is FAR from unstoppable. He's been fought to a standstill on numerous occasions, and while his power source is mystic, he does NOT have magic powers...he's just a brick with a crapload of defense.

On the other other hand, as has been pointed out already, being vulnerable to magic is not the same thing as "magic pwns Superman". Even IF Juggernaut has some sort of mystical attack Superman has taken magical damage before and NOT been instantly knocked out. Example: In in mainstream DC canon he's taken repeated bolts from Shazam's mystical lightning. He has also taken a faceful of Etrigan's hellfire (As well as his mystical demonic claws) and won the battle.


So overall, I see it as Superman and Juggernaught trade blows for awhile until Superman finally has enough and figures out the "unstoppable" means immobilize Juggy, then he goes with the iron bands wrap up option as mentioned previously.

chiasaur11
2008-10-19, 12:38 AM
Ok, so here's the deal.

As has been pointed out earlier, Superman does in fact have partial amnesia: When fighting against a land based brick he forgets that he has flight, speed (And the ability to combine the two powers into the ultimate bull rush), as well as heat vision. He's perfectly contect to trade blows with the likes of Doomsday, The Hulk, Mongal, ect.

So, no, he probably wouldn't dodge out of the way or use his flight.

On the other hand, the Juggernaut is FAR from unstoppable. He's been fought to a standstill on numerous occasions, and while his power source is mystic, he does NOT have magic powers...he's just a brick with a crapload of defense.

On the other other hand, as has been pointed out already, being vulnerable to magic is not the same thing as "magic pwns Superman". Even IF Juggernaut has some sort of mystical attack Superman has taken magical damage before and NOT been instantly knocked out. Example: In in mainstream DC canon he's taken repeated bolts from Shazam's mystical lightning. He has also taken a faceful of Etrigan's hellfire (As well as his mystical demonic claws) and won the battle.


So overall, I see it as Superman and Juggernaught trade blows for awhile until Superman finally has enough and figures out the "unstoppable" means immobilize Juggy, then he goes with the iron bands wrap up option as mentioned previously.

Or until he finds "unstoppable" means "can survive in space", and he heaves Marko through the sun straight to Oa for a high security lockup.

krossbow
2008-10-19, 08:22 PM
Superman, hands down.





Superman flies jugs into space.


Once thats done, superman can eye beam him into oblivion at his leasure.

TheEmerged
2008-10-21, 05:36 PM
Depending on whether or not the "Access" crossovers are considered valid, Wonder Woman outpowered the Juggernaut during the third series. Not just defeated him, outpowered him. And Supes beat Juggernaut as trivially as Batman beat Bullseye during the first series.

And neithers of those fights were part of the "vote" portion.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-21, 08:45 PM
Supes would just pull out of his butt
Super Juggernaut-Destructo-Vision.
And the world would be safe once more for democracy.

Hawriel
2008-10-22, 10:29 PM
Superman pulls out his cellphone call up Zatana. Taking a live vidio picture with his cellphone he asked Zatana to turn Juggernot into a bunny. Looking at the live vidio of Juggernaut on her cellphone she sais "ynnub a si tuanregguj." Superman thanks Zatana. Zatana sais no problem and asks how Lois is doing.

Supperman may be "week" against magic, but it deppends on what type and how he is being hit with magic. A mind effect spell would put the whamy on him wile a spell that has a physical/energy property that externaly hits him would be shrugged off like any other physical/evergy attack.

ericgrau
2008-10-23, 10:03 AM
Juggernaut doesn't seem to jump or run much IIRC.

Lift out ground from underneath in a 3 mile radius, hurtle to sun, on to next villian. Hey, it's been done before, it's plausible.

Oslecamo
2008-10-23, 11:05 AM
Please, even spider man can stop the juggernaut.

The real question would be what super hero couldn't stop the "unstopable" juggernaut.

Seriously, as far as villains go, juggernaut is probably the most nerfed concept ever. Turning into an invincible unstopable force? Just throw him into a swamp.

late for dinner
2008-10-23, 03:10 PM
Wee, I am glad this topic generated so much debate :). I thought it would be interesting with them both being nigh invulnerable to see how people took it.

So, let me throw this out:

If Juggy is already moving, how does Superman stop him? Tying him up doesn't stop his momentum so he can break free without much of an issue.

Ok so it would take a little bit of planning but He would use Jug's speed against him. He would have to speed off ahead of him to a state like Kansas ok? and then he would dig a huge hole like 700 feet deep and 100 feet wide. then he would cover it with grass and other "great plains" items. After that, he would lure Juggy to the hole Jugs falls in and stops running cause he just fell like 700 feet. Superman Flys down to the bottom and picks him up and hurls him into the sun. Man I am smart.

Fan
2008-10-23, 06:55 PM
Too bad for juggy that Supes cant be hurt by him.
*Wham*
Hell I could stop the Juggernaut.
Jujitsu buddy. we use the opponents weight, and momentum against them.

kpenguin
2008-10-23, 09:17 PM
Too bad for juggy that Supes cant be hurt by him.
*Wham*
Hell I could stop the Juggernaut.
Jujitsu buddy. we use the opponents weight, and momentum against them.

Which is exactly what WW Hulk does when he fights him while trying to get at Professor X.

krossbow
2008-10-23, 09:33 PM
The problem with the juggernaut is that he's only powerful if his opponents decide, against all logic, to fight him on his terms.

He has so many weaknesses to counterbalance his powers, its incredibly easy to simply sidestep his strengths and suckerpunch him.







Its like saying that its hard to stop a blender by punching its blades when you could just reach over and unplug it instead.

Raiser Blade
2008-10-23, 11:44 PM
Too bad for juggy that Supes cant be hurt by him.
*Wham*
Hell I could stop the Juggernaut.
Jujitsu buddy. we use the opponents weight, and momentum against them.

No you cannot stop the juggernaut. While you may indeed be skilled enough at jujitsu to use a man's weight and momentum against him you are grossly unprepared to handle the weight and momentum of the juggernaut.

Juggernaut at full strength is pretty damn powerful. He doesn't need to breathe eat or sleep.

Wikiedia entry avatar of the supernatural entity Cyttorak; he gained superhuman powers through the transference of mystical energies from Cyttorak via a magical gemstone, the Ruby of Cyttorak. (Because of his association with the X-Men, Juggernaut is often mistakenly labeled a mutant.) The ruby bonds to his soul and alters his being, a scale of power rivalling that of Thor and the Hulk. The Juggernaut possesses superhuman strength, as well as the mystical attribute of being physically unstoppable: once in motion, it is virtually impossible to stop his movement completely.

Besides giving him superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak grants the Juggernaut virtually inexhaustible stamina while being impervious to virtually all attacks, as well as the ability to survive without food, water or oxygen.

When transformed into the Juggernaut, Marko wears a costume made of unidentified extraordinarily damage-resistant fabric and materials. His helmet and skullcap are constructed from an unknown metal with mystical properties which shields him from all forms of psionic attack or probes. The helmet he wears gives him protection from Charles' telepathic powers. In order for telepaths to be able to affect Juggernaut, both the helmet and skullcap must be removed.

The power of the Juggernaut has a transformative effect on the minds of those who possess it, compelling them to acts of extreme violence and destruction.

I would say superman would probably win eventually but it wouldn't be a cakewalk either way.

Laurentio II
2008-10-24, 01:40 AM
No you cannot stop the juggernaut. While you may indeed be skilled enough at jujitsu to use a man's weight and momentum against him you are grossly unprepared to handle the weight and momentum of the juggernaut.
Both weight and momentum are not a problem if a correct move is performed. The actual problem is that the Juggernaut is fast, and the possibility of having your bones snapped and powdered in the process are very high.
Superman has not this kind of problem, anyway.

Does someone remember the Hulk story where a old biologist lands (green demented) Hulk with Judo? If you do, I pity you. I do.

My two cents on the original question: Superman, if he actually cares to win. That is the final answer of EVERY "Superman versus X" questions.

Raiser Blade
2008-10-24, 04:49 AM
Both weight and momentum are not a problem if a correct move is performed.

It actually doesn't matter what move you perform. No mere human at any level of martial art skill would be able to take down the 900 lb. behemoth known as the Juggernaut. I mean how would you even affect his charge at all without getting crushed.

Selrahc
2008-10-24, 05:14 AM
Hell I could stop the Juggernaut.


Jujitsu buddy. we use the opponents weight, and momentum against them.

That is like saying you could use Jujitsu to stop a meteor strike.



My two cents on the original question: Superman, if he actually cares to win. That is the final answer of EVERY "Superman versus X" questions.

Unless it's someone who is on the same level of power as him. Silver Surfer versus Superman for example, sounds like a real fight.

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-24, 05:51 AM
I would go with a draw, but only because I would let Juggy be as powerful as his description tells us. I am tired of seeing every hero in Marvel beat him because we nerfed him to fit this particular hero.
As for Spiderman beating him, Spiderman beats everyone. It's unofficial comic book law. I have no doubts that if there was a Supes vs Spidey fight, Spidey would win.

Anyway, back to the fight: What would happen would be: Both parties fight until someone else comes and talks sense into them, since they can't hurt each other.

Now, I want to see Juggy vs Doomsday.

Fan
2008-10-24, 09:31 AM
That is like saying you could use Jujitsu to stop a meteor strike.



Unless it's someone who is on the same level of power as him. Silver Surfer versus Superman for example, sounds like a real fight.

well if the meteor strike wasn't ON FIRE, and wieghing about thrity times as much as Juggy does in addition to it proly being radioactive, and some other nastys, and then you have to add in it having human anatomy, and through that the apprpriate grab spots to where I dont give a **** WHAT you weigh then yes I proly could, but only in the sense that I would be able to avert it the snese of a couple feat, and this would be with much back pain, and sweaty lifting.

Laurentio II
2008-10-24, 09:57 AM
That is like saying you could use Jujitsu to stop a meteor strike.
Stop? Never. Jujitsu is not meant to stop anything. It's meant to help it continue his run, but changing his equilibrium. And yes, could be done to moving tank like Juggernaut but, as I already told, chance of being crushed during the performance are almost total for normal humans.
Problem is, DC and Marvel universe are full of more-than-human martial artists. Remember, a (hell) trained man did this to Colossus with a stick.


Unless it's someone who is on the same level of power as him. Silver Surfer versus Superman for example, sounds like a real fight.
Silver Surfer? Yes, it would be interesting. He is an opponent that can't be outrunned, stroked from satellite distance, frozen or knocked down with a slap.
Who will open this thread?

Selrahc
2008-10-24, 10:05 AM
well if the meteor strike wasn't ON FIRE, and wieghing about thrity times as much as Juggy does in addition to it proly being radioactive, and some other nastys, and then you have to add in it having human anatomy, and through that the apprpriate grab spots to where I dont give a **** WHAT you weigh then yes I proly could, but only in the sense that I would be able to avert it the snese of a couple feat, and this would be with much back pain, and sweaty lifting.

You are wrong. If Juggernaught attacked you, there isn't anything you could do to stop him. Human martial artists can't defeat bears or gorillas, despite them having a roughly human build(As much so as Juggernaught) and only a fraction of the strength. Hell, a human master martial artist couldn't beat up a chimpanzee. At some point the massive strength difference is just too much.



Who will open this thread?

If you want to open it, I'll definitely participate.

chiasaur11
2008-10-24, 01:37 PM
That is like saying you could use Jujitsu to stop a meteor strike.



Unless it's someone who is on the same level of power as him. Silver Surfer versus Superman for example, sounds like a real fight.

I'd say Thor'd have a chance too.

He's got his fair share of new powers as the plot demands over time.

Would be a fight worth watching.

Selrahc
2008-10-24, 02:21 PM
I'd say Thor'd have a chance too.

He's got his fair share of new powers as the plot demands over time.

Would be a fight worth watching.

Thor versus Superman threads suffer from the problem that Thor has magic, so half the posters just immediately write off Superman's chances because "Superman is weak against magic".

If it wasn't for that, then yeah Thor is the other good Marvel Hero vs. Superman matchup. I honestly can't think of anyone else right now. Sentry is too insane, Hulk is landbound, Wonderman is just out of his league, Gladiator is too wierd(With his whole Self esteem power thing) and Hyperion is probably a bit too low powered. Can't think of any other Marvel heroes who'd be able to take Supes on in a straight fight.

Fan
2008-10-24, 02:29 PM
Thor versus Superman threads suffer from the problem that Thor has magic, so half the posters just immediately write off Superman's chances because "Superman is weak against magic".

If it wasn't for that, then yeah Thor is the other good Marvel Hero vs. Superman matchup. I honestly can't think of anyone else right now. Sentry is too insane, Hulk is landbound, Wonderman is just out of his league, Gladiator is too wierd(With his whole Self esteem power thing) and Hyperion is probably a bit too low powered. Can't think of any other Marvel heroes who'd be able to take Supes on in a straight fight.
Sentry kills all.... puire, and simple.
Also Hulk... lanbound? What is this madness?!
The hulk can JUMP THE GRAND CANYON..... Whats to say he cant catapult onto supes back.

Selrahc
2008-10-24, 03:01 PM
Sentry kills all.... puire, and simple.
Also Hulk... lanbound? What is this madness?!
The hulk can JUMP THE GRAND CANYON..... Whats to say he cant catapult onto supes back.

Sentry doesn't kill:
Ultron
WWHulk
The Collective
The Void
Super Adaptoid
Iron Man


I'd say he has more raw power than Superman, but the crippling insanity is a definite negative.

Hulk is landbound in the sense that he has no excessive supermobility. If he gets thrown into space, there is nothing he can do to get back into atmosphere. Which means all his Superman level physicals are in vain.

Fan
2008-10-24, 03:16 PM
Sentry doesn't kill:
Ultron
WWHulk
The Collective
The Void
Super Adaptoid
Iron Man


I'd say he has more raw power than Superman, but the crippling insanity is a definite negative.

Hulk is landbound in the sense that he has no excessive supermobility. If he gets thrown into space, there is nothing he can do to get back into atmosphere. Which means all his Superman level physicals are in vain.
Hes STRONGER tahn Superman, and in fact he DID kill WW Hulk at the end hes screaming then he collapses.... smoking... that usually entails death.

Selrahc
2008-10-24, 04:27 PM
Hes STRONGER tahn Superman, and in fact he DID kill WW Hulk at the end hes screaming then he collapses.... smoking... that usually entails death.

Uh... they both turn into their human forms (Despite that not making any sense) and then Bruce Banner punches Robert Reynolds into unconsciousness. Thats how WWH ended.

Aside from which, it doesn't matter that he is stronger than Superman(Which I agree with) the fact that he is cripplingly insane means that you can't count on him beating anyone. Superman isn't stupid, and he can probably talk Robert out of a fight easily enough.

Fan
2008-10-24, 04:34 PM
Uh... they both turn into their human forms (Despite that not making any sense) and then Bruce Banner punches Robert Reynolds into unconsciousness. Thats how WWH ended.

Aside from which, it doesn't matter that he is stronger than Superman(Which I agree with) the fact that he is cripplingly insane means that you can't count on him beating anyone. Superman isn't stupid, and he can probably talk Robert out of a fight easily enough.
ture, he is bat **** crazy, and he didn't even respond to the WWH threat until the very end directly. :/ Hell DR.Strange had more to do with it then Sentry did.
But, if EVER prvoked to the point of crazy ass rage when in supes mode.... The world would end.

Raiser Blade
2008-10-24, 04:52 PM
Anyone with magic or mind control powers can take supes out. Anybody else probably gets their goohulog head kicked in. Including sentry because really he's just a little push away from a mental breakdown.

Fan
2008-10-24, 04:56 PM
Anyone with magic or mind control powers can take supes out. Anybody else probably gets their goohulog head kicked in. Including sentry because really he's just a little push away from a mental breakdown.
Oh, and Supes is also tottaly cpable of more than punching things which is certainly prevalent from the evidence presented in his comics. (In fact some could say Supes was stupid due to him being fooled by some subtle talking (with VERY short intervals bewteen start, adn stop.) into trusting his worst enemy.)

krossbow
2008-10-25, 03:36 AM
As for Spiderman beating him, Spiderman beats everyone. It's unofficial comic book law. I have no doubts that if there was a Supes vs Spidey fight, Spidey would win.



I don't know; if someone just sits down for a second and realizes that he's fighting a fairly weak and squishy hero, its incredibly easy to nullify or kill him. Hell, doctor doom did this in one encounter; he got tired to trying to land blows on him and just brought an entire building down on the webhead.

Raiser Blade
2008-10-25, 12:08 PM
I would go with a draw, but only because I would let Juggy be as powerful as his description tells us.

What is this supposed to mean? Isn't that what we do? We judge power of characters based on their description.

Usually a characters power level varies a lot from comic to comic so it's best to go by what the creators say.

chiasaur11
2008-10-25, 01:25 PM
I don't know; if someone just sits down for a second and realizes that he's fighting a fairly weak and squishy hero, its incredibly easy to nullify or kill him. Hell, doctor doom did this in one encounter; he got tired to trying to land blows on him and just brought an entire building down on the webhead.

Which our pal Pete survived.

He did fight Superman once. Won for a bit due to Red Sun Radiation and, more importantly, the fact Superman didn't want to punch his head off. When the radiation wore off, Superman won on account of Spidey breaking his knuckles trying to punch him.

After that, of course, they teamed up.

tribble
2008-10-25, 04:25 PM
the Jugg wins, if only because if he does not need to eat, breathe, drink, sleep, etc. he probably doesn't age either. hence, Supes eventually dies of old age. Juggernaut wins!:smalltongue:

chiasaur11
2008-10-25, 04:45 PM
the Jugg wins, if only because if he does not need to eat, breathe, drink, sleep, etc. he probably doesn't age either. hence, Supes eventually dies of old age. Juggernaut wins!:smalltongue:

Ah, but as we saw in DC 1,000,000, Superman will move into the heart of the sun, become immortal and godlike, and emerge a few thousand years from now to save the universe. Juggernaut: Not so much. He can die, and most distant futures have him as dead.

Kent wins.

krossbow
2008-10-27, 08:55 PM
Here's the big problem:



The only thing that the hulk can try to match superman on is strength and durability. Thats it.



Yes, there is a reasonable comparison in the fight. HOWEVER, thats all that he can do. Its why the flash isn't put up there in fights vs. superman: He MIGHT be able to outrun him, but at the same time, he can't hope to match superman's other abilities.





If the juggernaut and superman comes to blows, he'd simply side step him and use other powers to trump him. Super speed for one, Superman should be able to use hit and run tactics to avoid taking the brunt of any of the juggernauts blows. Brainpower? while not super smart, Superman has the computing power of ancient lost civilizations that he can consult to form plans ; and quite frankly, there is NO way for the juggernaut to restrain superman if he decides to leave for a bit and form a strategy. Range? Superman has horrific beam weaponry in his head.

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-28, 03:23 AM
What is this supposed to mean? Isn't that what we do? We judge power of characters based on their description.

Usually a characters power level varies a lot from comic to comic so it's best to go by what the creators say.

No, because this discussion are full of examples of "he lost vs xxxx, he was fought to a standstill by yyyy" (goes for both characters) etc. What I mean is that Juggy is, according to his original description, unstoppable. That canon as well as non-canon sources has nerfed him over the years is my complaint. Unfortunately, every hero and his grandmother has stopped him, because it fits this and that story.*
If juggernaut actually was cut loose I said it would be a draw, and a long slugfest one at that.
This is a character that does not have to eat, sleep. He is strong enough to throw / punch superman into the sun from the surface of earth. Not that it would do him any good, but he could do it.
He is immune to the heat vision. He is sturdy enough to take what supes can dish out (yes he will fly around a bit from the punches).


*Heck in one story even Nightcrawler got him dizzy, simply by punching him over and over while teleporting around. Juggy shouldn't even notice 'crawler touching him.

krossbow
2008-10-28, 02:13 PM
No, because this discussion are full of examples of "he lost vs xxxx, he was fought to a standstill by yyyy" (goes for both characters) etc. What I mean is that Juggy is, according to his original description, unstoppable. That canon as well as non-canon sources has nerfed him over the years is my complaint. Unfortunately, every hero and his grandmother has stopped him, because it fits this and that story.*
If juggernaut actually was cut loose I said it would be a draw, and a long slugfest one at that.
This is a character that does not have to eat, sleep. He is strong enough to throw / punch superman into the sun from the surface of earth. Not that it would do him any good, but he could do it.
He is immune to the heat vision. He is sturdy enough to take what supes can dish out (yes he will fly around a bit from the punches).


*Heck in one story even Nightcrawler got him dizzy, simply by punching him over and over while teleporting around. Juggy shouldn't even notice 'crawler touching him.



Juggernaut gets his power from a god; the god is, in truth, the only real authority who's stated that the juggernaut is unstoppable.






These are MARVEL gods we're talking about here. They've been shown to be horribly below their general statements of their power levels. Because of this, you can't assume that the juggernaut is invulnerable. Heck, thor and other olympians, even odin, are vulnerable, and are far from lacking limits.


Because of this, i seriously doubt that NOTHING can stop the juggernaut.

chiasaur11
2008-10-28, 02:21 PM
Juggernaut gets his power from a god; the god is, in truth, the only real authority who's stated that the juggernaut is unstoppable.






These are MARVEL gods we're talking about here. They've been shown to be horribly below their general statements of their power levels. Because of this, you can't assume that the juggernaut is invulnerable. Heck, thor and other olympians, even odin, are vulnerable, and are far from lacking limits.


Because of this, i seriously doubt that NOTHING can stop the juggernaut.

Heck, in his first appearance he was stopped. Sure, psychic powers were involved, but DC gave the man of steel Super-Hypnotism for a reason.

An insane reason, probably. Given how Kanigher, Haney, Carey Bates et al thought, we're lucky he can't kill people with his atomic toenails.

phoenixcire
2008-10-28, 03:19 PM
No, because this discussion are full of examples of "he lost vs xxxx, he was fought to a standstill by yyyy" (goes for both characters) etc. What I mean is that Juggy is, according to his original description, unstoppable. That canon as well as non-canon sources has nerfed him over the years is my complaint. Unfortunately, every hero and his grandmother has stopped him, because it fits this and that story.*
If juggernaut actually was cut loose I said it would be a draw, and a long slugfest one at that.
This is a character that does not have to eat, sleep. He is strong enough to throw / punch superman into the sun from the surface of earth. Not that it would do him any good, but he could do it.
He is immune to the heat vision. He is sturdy enough to take what supes can dish out (yes he will fly around a bit from the punches).


*Heck in one story even Nightcrawler got him dizzy, simply by punching him over and over while teleporting around. Juggy shouldn't even notice 'crawler touching him.

Unstoppable doesn't mean unbeatable. All that means is when he starts going in one direction, nothing can stop him from moving in that direction.

Jugg doesn't need food, water or oxygen. But he does need to be on land to fight. Supes could just throw Jugg into the Sun. Jugg would be trapped there. Fight over.

Gavin Sage
2008-10-28, 09:06 PM
Unstoppable doesn't mean unbeatable. All that means is when he starts going in one direction, nothing can stop him from moving in that direction.

Jugg doesn't need food, water or oxygen. But he does need to be on land to fight. Supes could just throw Jugg into the Sun. Jugg would be trapped there. Fight over.

Heck being invincible works against Juggernaut here. Superman doesn't have any moral conflicts to worry about and can really cut loose.

Supes: Juggernaut you're completely invincible even in say the heart of a sun but can't ignore gravity to fly?
Juggs: Damn straight, b*tch must not know who the f*ck I am.
Supes: Guess you can take it can't you big man... *throws into sun*

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-29, 05:06 AM
These are MARVEL gods we're talking about here. They've been shown to be horribly below their general statements of their power levels. Because of this, you can't assume that the juggernaut is invulnerable. Heck, thor and other olympians, even odin, are vulnerable, and are far from lacking limits.

Because of this, i seriously doubt that NOTHING can stop the juggernaut.

The point is the description of his powers, as "his" god puts it: he IS invulnerable. Physically. You can't stop him by punching him, burning him, etc etc. You CAN stop him by reason (if he's in the mood), hypnotism, mental powers, etc. This is why he does not like to fight Phoenix, after all, and genuinely fears Xavier when he seems bent on actually killing Juggernaut...

(Now, let's not confuse things: I mean stop as in defeat, not stop as in stop him moving forward).

This is as always the curse of different writers:
In one canon comic he takes several direct hits from both normal tanks and high-tech weapons without even noticing the shelling more than in a general "stop that, you are irritating me" kind of way. In another canon comic he is punched (slightly) dizzy by nightcrawler, who hits him about 2000 times, but is not stronger than a normal human.
I know you can't really get away from these problems unless you only write mini-series, have complete control of your own characters and never let anyone use them again. But anyway.

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-29, 05:08 AM
Unstoppable doesn't mean unbeatable. All that means is when he starts going in one direction, nothing can stop him from moving in that direction.

You are confusing two ways of using "stopping". I used stopping in the place of "defeating". He is also supposed to be literary unstoppable if he gets up speed, as you say, but that is not what I am talking about.

X_Phantom_X
2008-11-01, 02:47 PM
Ok. To put an end to one side of this arguement...
The WW Hulk came to Xaviers school and was fighting and already raging and then had to fight the Juggernaut. Juggy wasn't moving at all and overpowered the already raging Hulk. That tells you how strong that Juggy is. Next off, Gladiator, who destroyed a planet with three punches, tried to pick up Hulk and throw him into the Atmospere and was Ear Clapped by Hulk and forced to drop him from the pain. That being said, there is no way that Superman could throw Juggy into space without softening him up first, which probably isn't going to happen.
Mostly because the already raging Hulk did nothing against the Juggernaut when they fought except get curb stomped by Juggy (No joke, that's what he did in the comic). So yeah...
Also, Hulk (Who, while is raging, is stronger than Superman) tried to pull Juggies Helmet off, was again defeated in that attempt. If the Juggernaut can defeat Hulk in a fist fight, he can beat just about anyone in straight fight. That being said, Superman doesn't try to destroy an opponent until he realizes there is no other alternative. So, with that in mind, Juggy would already have to have done some damage to Superman before Superman would seriously try. If Superman starts to take damage, he slows down (Albeit he's still way faster than Jugg). However, the more he takes, the slower he is going to get. His eyebeams are not enough to hurt Jugg. His breath couldn't stop him from moving so it basicly becomes a fist fight. Supermans only chance would be fly-by attacks and hope he doesn't get grappled. If Juggs gets a hold of Superman and doesn't let go, the fight would be over. If Superman takes the gloves off after getting hit a few times, he stands a chance because he is extremely hard to hit. However, seeing as how even the Hulk couldn't hurt Juggy, I'm not sure what Superman could do. After enough hits, he may begin to do a little damage, the same as with Doomsday, but probably nothing serious. However, superman does have one advantage and that is friends. In a one-on-one fight, I don't think even Superman could take Juggernaut. Silver Age Superman maybe, simply because he has soo much power, but even then it would be a very close fight.