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Da'Shain
2010-05-17, 05:47 PM
Hey there, everyone. I'm going to be joining a Saga game that's already in progress in about two weeks, and I've been pondering what I'd like to play. I'm not particularly familiar with Saga and I really don't have access to any of the books at the moment, so I was hoping that if I floated my character concept out there, some intrepid helpers could point me towards the salient parts to look at when I do get my hands on the sourcebooks, and possibly even assist me in creating the majority of the character before my first session.

I've played one Saga game before now, and that particular campaign didn't last too long so I didn't really have a chance to familiarize myself with the rules. I've played several campaigns (memorable ones, too) under the old Revised system (the one that came out around Attack of the Clones, I think), but I've never played a droid before, and I figured I'd give it a shot this time.

So, having recently reread Perdido Street Station, my first instinct for this new character was that it be similar in many ways to the Construct Council -- i.e. massively intelligent, completely impersonal and seeking only to expand its own processing power and perpetuate its intelligence. To this end, I was thinking that its physical appearance would be a hodgepodge of various droids' processors encased in what little armor or covering it feels the need to place over its parts.

The base droid would be something supposedly uncomplicated, like a gonk droid (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gonk_droid), that had gained intelligence either through a fluke or some poorly thought-out tinkering. I'd like it to be not particularly useful in a fight, but capable of overriding nearly any mechanical system it can access and some truly awesome feats of engineering. Its eventual goal is to reach a factory world such as Telti or Mechis III and begin to disseminate its consciousness through as many processors as possible, allowing it to direct the production facilities to create newer and better parts to join together into the whole, free of behavioral safeguards or restrictive programming that organic makers

The party I'll be joining is not one of good people, consisting mostly of mercs and thugs with one actual wannabe Sith in it, so there's no other droids, no really good technical characters, and plenty of room for some cold, calculating machine intelligence. I don't know if droids do classes the same way as other characters do, but I'd imagine this character would be some sort of Tech Specialist/Scoundrel, possibly even with some levels of nonheroic thrown in to reflect its simple beginnings.

So, anyone who knows the system well immediately know what I need to go for, in terms of game mechanics?

KillianHawkeye
2010-05-17, 05:57 PM
If you're starting with a stock droid model, you'll probably have some nonheroic levels to start with, but you can start taking class levels as a normal PC after that. I reccomend Scoundrel for the tech skills and the slicing talents, for ultimate computer hacking.

Do note, however, that if you are completely useless outside of a computer terminal, people WILL become annoyed at you unless you're able to carry your weight with RP or additional hijinks. Try to find creative ways to make slicing useful in combat (like, say, if you're in an automated factory and there's machines you can take control of or something). Or if all else fails, bump into your enemies and "accidentally" knock them down. Most of the time, they won't bother to attack a harmless droid when there's guys with blasters or lightsabers to worry about.

Da'Shain
2010-05-17, 06:50 PM
I don't intend to be completely useless in combat; I'm just clear that I don't want a combat-focused character. I remember Nobles had some leadership and inspiration talents that I might be able to incorporate, and of course I intend to excel against enemy technology to the point of unfairness, if possible. I'm not entirely certain what my starting level will be at this point, though, so I'm not sure how much mechanical strength my character will have, being a technical noncombatant.

This is actually the same group I played my other Saga game with (mostly, at least), and I played an infiltrator-type character while the rest of them were mostly combat gods. They loved him, even when that character didn't pull his weight as much in combat, because he opened up many possibilities to them that before weren't even on the table, so I'm confident that as long as I can make my character useful in other ways it'll be fine.

Are there any books I should look into when I get the chance? I know they have pretty much every Saga book out there and are using them all, so pretty much anything published goes. Also, is there a downside to having nonheroic classes to start with? I seem to remember that three levels in nonheroic is roughly equivalent to a single level in a heroic class.

KillianHawkeye
2010-05-17, 07:04 PM
Are there any books I should look into when I get the chance? I know they have pretty much every Saga book out there and are using them all, so pretty much anything published goes. Also, is there a downside to having nonheroic classes to start with? I seem to remember that three levels in nonheroic is roughly equivalent to a single level in a heroic class.

You might wanna check out Scavenger's Guide to Droids. I'm sure there's gotta be something useful in it. It might even have an updated system for creating droid PCs (I dunno, since I quit playing SW way before this book came out).

As far as the core rulebook goes, it says that a nonheroic 2/any PC class 1 is roughly equivalent to a normal 1st level PC. I'd advise against taking anything with more than 2 nonheroic levels if you can, because nonheroic class really sucks.

You could definitely multiclass Noble if you want to, but I don't really see how well that fits with your "calculating, impersonal" robot motif. I guess you could just be a big jerk about inspiring people with your SUPERIOR ROBOT INTELLIGENCE or whatever. :smallwink:

Beleriphon
2010-05-17, 07:23 PM
You might wanna check out Scavenger's Guide to Droids. I'm sure there's gotta be something useful in it. It might even have an updated system for creating droid PCs (I dunno, since I quit playing SW way before this book came out).


Scavenger's Guide does have some new stuff for droid construction, and I'd personally recommend going with the custom droid rules.


You could definitely multiclass Noble if you want to, but I don't really see how well that fits with your "calculating, impersonal" robot motif. I guess you could just be a big jerk about inspiring people with your SUPERIOR ROBOT INTELLIGENCE or whatever. :smallwink:

Scoundrel, sir scoundrel. You want to be a scoundrel, and using Scavenger's Guide you can outslice and an automated, mechanated, steam power, nuclear slicing machine. In no short words, the only thing you can't slice is yourself.

Da'Shain
2010-05-17, 08:03 PM
Oh, they came out with a dedicated droid book? Awesome, I remember people bemoaning that lack in the last campaign. Maybe I'll run down to Barnes & Noble when I get some time and see if it's there to peruse.


You could definitely multiclass Noble if you want to, but I don't really see how well that fits with your "calculating, impersonal" robot motif. I guess you could just be a big jerk about inspiring people with your SUPERIOR ROBOT INTELLIGENCE or whatever. :smallwink:Yeah, not sure how well it would fit either; it was just the first thing that popped into my head when I thought "noncombatant but useful in combat". Eventually I intend to have either modifications to my main body or follower droids under my control that are able fighters, but I'm probably not going to start with them, would be my guess.


Scoundrel, sir scoundrel. You want to be a scoundrel, and using Scavenger's Guide you can outslice and an automated, mechanated, steam power, nuclear slicing machine. In no short words, the only thing you can't slice is yourself.Sounds good to me. Does the book have new droid-only classes or something, or does it simply offer new talents and accessories?

AFS
2010-05-17, 08:17 PM
You could always be a better tactician then a fighter. Focus on aiding others and using knowledge tactics then fighting. I donít have any of my books in front of me for more suggestions beyond that.

Stuff like Aim right above the fuel cells etc etc

That mostly depends on your GM though.

EDIT: I'm reading over the rules now. I'll reply with some suggestions.

IdleMuse
2010-05-17, 08:32 PM
Yeah, everything said so far is true; Scavenger's Guide to Droids with the corebook will give you most of what you want, there's also a fairly awesome Droid prestige class in The Force Unleashed supplement.

In Scavenger's Guide there is a new droid creation guide, basically doing them like races, really easy and really awesome.

In terms of class levels, I'd suggest yeah, going Scoundrel might definitely work if you go the slicer/techspec route, and Noble can be good to pick up some tactical talents. Soldier is also something you should look at; don't be fooled by the name and full BAB, there's some very useful battlefield control and technical talents in there.

Some general Saga Edition advice is that you almost certainly want to multiclass; once you've got what you want out of a base class, there's really no penalty to switching and picking up some talents/feats from a different one. I'd have a flick through and find a prestige class you want to aim for as well, most of them are a lot better than the base classes, and if you go straight through 20 levels of base classes you'll literally have more feats than you know what to do with with a mainly noncom character, even with all the supplements.

The other major piece of advice is to take always Skill Focus in the skills you want to be good at (Mechanics and Use Computer, probably in this case), because, unless it's houseruled (frequently so, given it's power), Skill Focus grants a static +5 bonus to that skill, which stacks with the +5 you get for being trained (no skill ranks in Saga), for a fairly useful +10+ability before you even get above level 1.

AFS
2010-05-17, 08:57 PM
I don't have the Scavenger's Guide to Droids book, however using just the core book I was able to create a decent level 1 droid.

+14 on Mech checks (skill focus mech)
+9 on any trained knowledge skill / use computer.

Very basic without too much customization.

Starting off as a scoundrel then multiclassing to a nobel would be the way I'd go. There are a lot of talents to take for tech type characters.

Da'Shain
2010-05-17, 09:44 PM
In terms of class levels, I'd suggest yeah, going Scoundrel might definitely work if you go the slicer/techspec route, and Noble can be good to pick up some tactical talents. Soldier is also something you should look at; don't be fooled by the name and full BAB, there's some very useful battlefield control and technical talents in there.Soldier? Really? Surprised there'd be useful technical talents there. Are slicer abilities only available to Scoundrels? And isn't there a Tech Specialist class, or am I making that up?

The other major piece of advice is to take always Skill Focus in the skills you want to be good at (Mechanics and Use Computer, probably in this case), because, unless it's houseruled (frequently so, given it's power), Skill Focus grants a static +5 bonus to that skill, which stacks with the +5 you get for being trained (no skill ranks in Saga), for a fairly useful +10+ability before you even get above level 1.Yeah, I was planning on my first feats being Skill Focus in those two skills, but then I don't remember most of the feats that are available so we'll see.


Starting off as a scoundrel then multiclassing to a nobel would be the way I'd go. There are a lot of talents to take for tech type characters.Understood, I'll look into it. Are there abilities that let you actually control other droids, or hook into networks without a jack, or things like that?

Da'Shain
2010-05-18, 01:23 PM
So I just got back from Barnes & Noble. Thankfully, they had pretty much all the books in stock, so spending an hour there I was actually able to take notes, heh. Thank goodness for easy finals, or else I wouldn't have the time for that.

Anyway, wow there are several more options than I thought, mostly thanks to the Scavenger's Guide to Droids, that book's huge. And it also means I'm altering the backstory a little bit, because I like the idea of a network defense droid going rogue. So it'll be similar in that it develops independent thought through an accident (I'm thinking a computer virus that infects its network) and still seeks to increase its processor power by any means necessary, eventually creating newer and better versions of itself, but the base model will be a more sophisticated droid.

It's based on the E1-9 network security droid, but instead of using the service droid chassis it'll use the astromech chassis; the E1-9 is apparently designed for physical security as well, while I want mine to begin as basically a computer with wheels and a few tool attachments to connect it to a network. Here's what I have so far:

JNR-0 (Name not finalized :smallwink:)
2nd-Degree Droid (Small)
Manufacturer Balmorran Arms (+1 INT)
Astromech Chassis (+2 INT, -2 CHA; Automatic training in Mechanics; either Skill Focus[Mechanics] or Skill Focus [Use Computer], Speed 6 [Wheeled] or 4 [Walking])
Starting Class: Scoundrel for 3 levels or so, then probably straight into Independent Droid at 4th level
- 1st Level Talent: Gimmick
- 3rd Level Talent: Trace or Burst Transmission
- At some point, take Scomp Link Slicer (only available to 2nd Degree droids)
Feats
- 1st Level: Skill Focus (Mechanics), Bonus Feat Skill Focus (Use Computer)
- 2nd Level Scoundrel Bonus: Tech Specialist
- 3rd Level: Predictive Defense? Adaptable Talent? Not sure
- Go for Superior Tech (Droids) at 9th level
Trained Skills (Assuming 16+ INT): Deception, Knowledge (Tech), Knowledge (Phys. Science), Knowledge (Galactic Lore), Mechanics (Astromech Bonus), Perception, Stealth, Use Computer
High Priority Systems to Install: Hidden Core, Internal Comlink, Vocabulator, Communications Jammer, Sensor Pack/Booster/Countermeasures, Locked Access

So yeah. That's what I have at the moment. I'm not sure how abilities will be determined, but I'm pretty confident I'll be able to have at least a 16 INT to start with, which I plan to augment with Tech Specialist and later Superior Tech.

I'm also not sure yet what level we'll be starting at or how much money I'll have to upgrade myself with. I believe the main villain of the campaign is around 11th or 12th level, so we're likely not going to be much higher than 4 or 5 to start I'd say. I think I'll go with 3 levels of Scoundrel and then go straight into Independent Droid at 4th, then I'm not sure where to go afterwards. Saboteur or Droid Commander both fit the flavor of what I want pretty well, and I'm sure there's other Prestige Classes that I missed that would also be pretty helpful.

Depending on the starting money, I was also considering taking a level as a Noble and taking the Wealth Talent, so that at every new level I'll have at least 5000 credits to spend on upgrading myself or any droid underlings. Would this be gimping myself a bit, though?

AFS
2010-05-18, 06:14 PM
JNR-0 (Name not finalized :smallwink:)
2nd-Degree Droid (Small)
Manufacturer Balmorran Arms (+1 INT)
Astromech Chassis (+2 INT, -2 CHA; Automatic training in Mechanics; either Skill Focus[Mechanics] or Skill Focus [Use Computer], Speed 6 [Wheeled] or 4 [Walking])
Starting Class: Scoundrel for 3 levels or so, then probably straight into Independent Droid at 4th level
- 1st Level Talent: Gimmick
- 3rd Level Talent: Trace or Burst Transmission
- At some point, take Scomp Link Slicer (only available to 2nd Degree droids)
Feats
- 1st Level: Skill Focus (Mechanics), Bonus Feat Skill Focus (Use Computer)
- 2nd Level Scoundrel Bonus: Tech Specialist
- 3rd Level: Predictive Defense? Adaptable Talent? Not sure
- Go for Superior Tech (Droids) at 9th level
Trained Skills (Assuming 16+ INT): Deception, Knowledge (Tech), Knowledge (Phys. Science), Knowledge (Galactic Lore), Mechanics (Astromech Bonus), Perception, Stealth, Use Computer
High Priority Systems to Install: Hidden Core, Internal Comlink, Vocabulator, Communications Jammer, Sensor Pack/Booster/Countermeasures, Locked Access


Depending on the starting money, I was also considering taking a level as a Noble and taking the Wealth Talent, so that at every new level I'll have at least 5000 credits to spend on upgrading myself or any droid underlings. Would this be gimping myself a bit, though?

Here is a excel character sheet. Very useful.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f18c3....bf74011771d8e4b

Updated 1.31a - I have not looked for another version in a while.

IMO taking at least one level in nobel is worth it for your type of character. The talent that fits your character is called double agent and its a nobel talent from the clone wars book. Basically roll deception during initiative and if you beat all the will defenses of ALL the enemies in line of site, they don't think you are an enemy. Don't act aggresive and you don't get hurt. The only drawback to your droid is a low charisma score. But taking another skill focus to raise that is worth it. I'd rather be alive then dead and wealthy.

IdleMuse
2010-05-18, 09:01 PM
Soldier? Really? Surprised there'd be useful technical talents there. Are slicer abilities only available to Scoundrels? And isn't there a Tech Specialist class, or am I making that up?

Understood, I'll look into it. Are there abilities that let you actually control other droids, or hook into networks without a jack, or things like that?

As I'm sure you've discovered from reading some of the books, Tech Specialist is a talent tree off Scoundrel, from Starships of the Galaxy. Regards Soldier talents, Commando tree is nice, Battle Analysis, Cover Fire are useful for noncoms, and Demolitionist if you've already pumped your Mechanics skills.

DrGonzo
2010-05-19, 03:17 PM
I don't think tech specialist or superior tech is worth it. Pay someone to do it for you, or looking at your group, threaten someone into doing it for you. You don't have feats to spare. Spend them on other things.

IdleMuse
2010-05-19, 07:40 PM
I don't think tech specialist or superior tech is worth it. Pay someone to do it for you, or looking at your group, threaten someone into doing it for you. You don't have feats to spare. Spend them on other things.

This really depends on the GM. Some GMs don't let you buy tech-specced items (especially superior tech) on the open market without some seriously difficult (and hence expensive) Gather Info checks/roleplaying.

Da'Shain
2010-05-19, 11:21 PM
Here is a excel character sheet. Very useful.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f18c3....bf74011771d8e4b

Updated 1.31a - I have not looked for another version in a while.

IMO taking at least one level in nobel is worth it for your type of character. The talent that fits your character is called double agent and its a nobel talent from the clone wars book. Basically roll deception during initiative and if you beat all the will defenses of ALL the enemies in line of site, they don't think you are an enemy. Don't act aggresive and you don't get hurt. The only drawback to your droid is a low charisma score. But taking another skill focus to raise that is worth it. I'd rather be alive then dead and wealthy.Thanks for the character sheet; can't read it right now because I'm on the move, but I'll check it out once I'm home again. Is it any newer than the one from the HeroForge site? I think that one's like 2 years old by now and very out of date.

Yeah, from what I'm planning I don't think I'll have the CHA to really take advantage of that ability. Plus, there's going to be a LOT of combat characters apparently, so the likelihood of me getting targeted first is pretty low.


I don't think tech specialist or superior tech is worth it. Pay someone to do it for you, or looking at your group, threaten someone into doing it for you. You don't have feats to spare. Spend them on other things.From what I've seen so far, actually, I think I will have a few feats to spare. There aren't that many that actually pertain to slicing or droid-building; most of the pertinent abilities are either talents or skills. Anyway, I know two things for a fact: one, that other Tech Specialists in this DM's galaxy will charge exorbitant amounts if I can even find them and convince them to help, and two, the DM will give me, at the very least, plot bonuses to things that I build or modify if I go tech specialist and superior tech (I know the DM, and he does similar things in most of his games). Also third, well, my character is not going to trust others to make modifications, especially not to itself, and is going to be building his own equipment and servant droids. With, again, the end goal of coopting a factory world

I've also discovered that I misheard the other player, and apparently characters are around level 11 at the moment, so I'm gonna start at an already pretty awesome level of skill where I'll probably have at least one or two combat droids in my control. I have yet to find out how much money I'll begin with, though.

Da'Shain
2010-05-21, 03:23 AM
Thanks a lot for that SagaSheet, AFS! Really helpful and quite up to date, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, using that I whipped up a stat block that seems to fit what I want pretty well. I didn't get to Droid Commander, but I can save that for later levels.

JNR-0
JNR-0
CL 11
Small Astromech Droid (2nd-degree) Scoundrel 3/Soldier 1/Independent Droid 3/Military Engineer 1/Saboteur 3
Init +6; Perception +13
Languages Basic, Binary, Durese, Huttese, Shyriiwook, Verpine

Defenses Ref 31 (flat-footed 24), Fort 23, Will 28
HP 59; Threshold 23; SR 10
Immune Droid Traits

Speed 4 squares (walking), 6 squares (wheeled)
Melee electroshock probe +8 (1d8+6 ion)
Ranged sidearm blaster +8 (3d6+5)
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +7; Grp +3
Atk Options Point Blank Shot
Special Actions Break Program, Gimmick, Repairs on the Fly, Scomp Link Slicer
Class Abilities Destructive, Independent Spirit (+1), Sapience, Unexpected Results

Abilities Str 13, Dex 12, Con -, Int 24, Wis 16, Cha 8 (Using Standard Array)
Balmorran Arms - +1 INT
Superior Tech - +4 INT
Talents Break Program, Computer Master, Device Jammer, Droid Jammer, Gimmick, Repairs on the Fly, Scomp Link Slicer, Trace
Feats Armor Proficiency (light), Droidcraft, Point Blank Shot, Predictive Defense, Skill Focus (Mechanics, Use Computer), Skill Training (Mechanics), Superior Tech, Tech Specialist, Weapon Proficiency (pistols, simple weapons)
Skills Deception +9, Gather Information +4 (may Use Computer +22 with access to a computer network instead), Knowledge (galactic lore) +17, Knowledge (physical sciences) +17, Knowledge (technology) +17, Mechanics +22, Perception +13, Pilot +11, Stealth +16, Use Computer +22 (may Issue Routine Command as swift action; may reroll on opposed rolls and keep the better result)
Systems walking locomotion (magnetic feet), wheeled locomotion (magnetic feet), heuristic processor, 6 tool appendages, claw appendage, diagnostics package, internal storage (2kg), locked access, scomp link, internal comlink, communications jammer, shield generator (SR 10), vocabulator, communications countermeasures
Possessions circular saw, electroshock probe, fusion cutter, holorecorder, hydrospanner, laser welder, personal holoprojector, personality downloader, sidearm blaster with 2 spare power packsNot gonna be a huge asset in combat (although depending on how much money I get, I'll have built at least one or two combat droids myself), but against nearly any technology this little fella seems like a beast to me, with the added bonus of being able to repair himself or any other droid superfast. There's even a feat I'm thinking of taking later on that would allow me to repair multiple droids at once. What do people think? Too tech focused for the only droid in the party?