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Ralasha
2010-05-19, 10:52 PM
3.x resource

PEACH: Please Examine and Comment Honestly, not Criticize. Please note, I am not looking for vague ideas, but solid advice.

Background:
In order to become a Maelstrom Adept one must have spent time within a maelstrom, or studying one. They attempt to find a way to mimic this odd force, and harness it for their own use.

Requirements:
BAB: +5
Skills: Knowledge Arcana: 4 Ranks, Concentration: 4 Ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
Alignment: Any chaotic. A Maelstrom Adept is normally one of unpredictable movement, and action. If their alignment stops being chaotic, they loose the benefit of all abilities, and may not progress further in this class until they have corrected their alignment.

The Maelstrom Adept
{table]Level | BAB | FS | RS | WS | Special
1st| +1 | +0 | +2 | +0 | Sudden Movement
2nd| +2 | +0 | +3 | +0 | Sudden Strike
3rd| +3 | +1 | +3 | +1 | Evasion
4th| +4 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Improved Spring Attack
5th| +5 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Standing Storm
6th| +6 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Improved Evasion
7th| +7 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Improved Whirlwind Attack
8th| +8 | +2 | +6 | +2 | Spell Resistance
9th| +9 | +3 | +6 | +3 | Superior Evasion
10th| +10 | +3 | +7 | +3 | Living Maelstrom, Swift Passage
[/table]

Hit Dice: d8

Class Skills:
A Maelstrom Adept's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: Chaos (Int)*, Profession (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4[ + Int modifier.[/b]

Class Features:
All of the abilities in the above Table, and the following are Abilities of the maelstrom adept. They loose the benefit of these abilities when wearing armor heavier than light.

Sudden Movement: The maelstrom adept may make a 5 foot step as an immediate action at any time. Thus they could side step a ray or line effect, even on someone elses turn. This ability may be used once per turn per two levels per round; so once at first level, twice at third, three at fifth, and so forth. this allows the character to move when not on their turn, multiple times per round. The Maelstrom adept also receives a dodge bonus equal to half its class level rounded up that cannot be lost for any reason, and applies equally to all attackers. This movement does not count against per round movement for deciding how far the character can move on its turn.
Sudden Strike: When foes leave themselves open, you may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Class Level. For example, a third level maelstrom adept can make a total of four attacks of opportunity in 1 round—the one attack of opportunity any character is entitled to, plus three more because of maelstrom adept levels. If four goblins move out of the character’s threatened squares, he can make one attack of opportunity each against the four. You can still make only one attack of opportunity per opportunity. With this ability, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. This ability may be used in concert with the Sudden Movement class ability to gain multiple attacks of opportunity per turn on opponents.
Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level and higher, an adept can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the adept is wearing light or no armor. A helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Improved Spring Attack (Ex): the maelstrom adept may make multiple spring attacks per round, up to his movement, and base number of attacks, including bonuses from spells/abilities like haste.
Standing Storm: The maelstrom adept may attempt to focus the chaos within itself outwards, creating a barrier outwards from the character equal to its melee weapon range. This barrier deals damage equal to its melee damage each round to every character that enters or passes through it. All characters, friendly or hostile take damage while in this area. This damage is not effected by spell resistance or damage reduction. Thus a character with five attacks with a longsword would deal 5d8 damage to every individual, or object, ignoring hardness. For purposes of determining maximum damage, apply maximum number of attacks, such as with a monks flurry of blows. If it has any enhancements or enchantments this damage is applied as though the adept had attacked and hit every time. This effect does not cause critical hits. This requires a Concentration Check DC:15. The Maelstrom adept may keep this ability functioning for a number of rounds equal to its dexterity modifier with no ill effects, after twice its dexterity modifier it becomes fatigued, after 3 times its dexterity modifier it becomes exhausted and must stop, or fall unconscious the next round.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the adept still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, he henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Superior Whirlwind Attack: the Maelstrom Adept no longer takes any penalties while performing a whirlwind attack, and may make as many whirlwind attacks as it has attacks in a round. This stacks with abilities such as flurry of blows.
Spell Resistance: The maelstrom is difficult to control, and harder yet to stop. The Maelstrom adept gains Spell resistance equal to 15+Class level. This spell resistance applies only to magical attacks, or effects unfavorable to the PC.
Superior Evasion (Ex): This ability works like improved evasion, except that while the adept takes half damage on a failed save, a helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) still gains the benefit of evasion.
Living Maelstrom: The maelstrom adept is no longer merely an adept, it is a maelstrom. Its standing storm extends out to double the characters melee distance, and any opponent moving within this distance of the character is subject to attacks of opportunity. The character is able to move 10 feet on any turn, as the sudden movement ability. When the maelstrom does not invoke the standing storm it is limited to it's melee distance as a radius, as a permanent effect that can be suppressed or resumed at will. It remains suppressed or on until the character reverses the action. This ability functions even while unconscious, and the standing storm no longer tires the character. It may, in addition, move and attack normally while using the standing storm.
Swift Passage: At any time on its turn, once per round the Maelstrom Adept may move any distance up to it's maximum movement as an immediate action. This ability does not function while helpless. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, it is merely here... now there.

Abilities: Dexterity and Strength are most important to an adept, Strength gives extra damage to the storm. Dexterity improves its abilities. Intelligence and Constitution are also important.

New Skill:
Knowledge: Chaos represents the study or practice of the theories of chaos itself, such as the creation of abberants, sudden changes in a species with no obvious cause, wild magic fields, maelstroms and other such phenomenon. Prismatic Magics tend fall into this category. Many Wild Mages are experts of this type of knowledge, though those that have in truth spent time studying this odd realm of knowledge are usually at least slightly insane, or extrmely difficult to understand.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 02:23 AM
Background:
In order to become a Maelstrom Adept one must have spent time within a maelstrom, or studying one. They attempt to find a way to mimic this odd force, and harness it for their own use.

Requirements:
BAB: +5
Skills: Knowledge Arcana: 8 Ranks, Concentration: 8 Ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack
Alignment: Any chaotic. A Maelstrom Adept is normally one of unpredictable movement, and action. If their alignment stops being chaotic, they loose the benefit of all abilities, and may not progress further in this class until they have corrected their alignment.

Knowledge: Arcana and Concentration look off being at 8 ranks for a martial only class. Nature would probably be better than Arcana; both should probably be only 4 ranks.

Feats are insanely wut. The Spring Attack line is generally considered... poor. Best option is probably to drop down to only requiring Mobility, maybe, maybe spring attack, giving the other feats throughout the PrC.

For the special requirement, throw down the "lose all abilities" shenanigans and just copypasta the Ex-Whatever text from the monk or barbarian. As written, you lose everything, not just benefits of this class.


The Maelstrom Adept
{table]Level | BAB | FS | RS | WS | Special
1st| +1 | +0 | +2 | +0 | Sudden Movement
2nd| +2 | +0 | +3 | +0 | Sudden Strike
3rd| +3 | +1 | +3 | +1 | Evasion
4th| +4 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Improved Spring Attack
5th| +5 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Standing Storm
6th| +6 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Improved Evasion
7th| +7 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Improved Whirlwind Attack
8th| +8 | +2 | +6 | +2 | Spell Resistance
9th| +9 | +3 | +6 | +3 | Superior Evasion
10th| +10 | +3 | +7 | +3 | Living Maelstrom, Swift Passage
[/table]

It's a table. Could probably use a good Forst save, but, whatever.


Hit Dice: d8

Class Skills:
A Maelstrom Adept's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge Arcana (Int), Profession (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.[/b]

HD looks light. Skills look a little light.


Class Features:
All of the abilities in the above Table, and the following are Abilities of the maelstrom adept. They loose the benefit of these abilities when wearing armor heavier than light.

The heavy armor bit seems unnecessary, but, eh.


Sudden Movement: The maelstrom adept may make a 5 foot step as a free action at any time. Thus they could side step a ray or line effect, even on someone elses turn. This ability may be used once per turn per two levels, so once at first level, twice at third, three at fifth, and so forth. this allows the character to move when not on their turn, multiple times per round. The Maelstrom adept also receives a dodge bonus equal to half its class level rounded up that cannot be lost for any reason, and applies equally to all attackers.

The more than one 5 ft. step at greater than an immediate action is of wut levels. One extra 5 ft. movement as an immediate action is good. Multiple 5 ft. steps in and of themselves are okay, mainly useful for helping skirmish. See any discussion about Abrupt Jaunt. The dodge bonuses are meh.


Sudden Strike: When foes leave themselves open, you may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Class Level. For example, a third level maelstrom adept can make a total of four attacks of opportunity in 1 round—the one attack of opportunity any character is entitled to, plus three more because of maelstrom adept levels. If four goblins move out of the character’s threatened squares, he can make one attack of opportunity each against the four. You can still make only one attack of opportunity per opportunity. With this ability, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed This ability may be used in concert with the Sudden Movement class ability to gain multiple attacks of opportunity per turn on opponents.

This isn't bad, but it's basically Combat Reflexes, but different.


Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level and higher, an adept can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the adept is wearing light or no armor. A helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralysed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

As rogue, so, whatever. Appropriate.


Improved Spring Attack (Ex): the maelstrom adept may divide his attacks and movement into as many actions as he wishes, but may only move so long as he has movement left, and may only attack so long as he has attacks left. This otherwise functions as spring attack.

Check Bounding Assault from PHB2 for better wording.


Standing Storm: The maelstrom adept may attempt to focus the chaos within itself outwards, creating a barrier out to five feet of whirling chaos. This barrier deals damage equal to its melee damage each round to every character that enters or passes through it. All characters, friendly or hostile take damage while in this area. This damage is not effected by spell resistance or damage reduction. Thus a character with five attacks with a longsword would deal 5d8 damage to every individual, or object, ignoring hardness. For purposes of determining maximum damage, apply maximum number of attacks, such as with a monks flurry of blows. If it has any enhancements or enchantments this damage is applied as though the adept had attacked and hit every time. This effect does not cause critical hits. This requires a Concentration Check DC:15. The Maelstrom adept may keep this ability functioning for a number of rounds equal to its dexterity modifier with no ill effects, after twice its dexterity modifier it becomes fatigued, after 3 times its dexterity modifier it becomes exhausted and must stop, or fall unconcious the next round.

This is more than useful, considering that natural attacks become even better than normal. It would be simpler to just have the ability mimic Blade Barrier with CL = HD or x2 PrC level.


Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the adept still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, he henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralysed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Again, as Rogue.


Improved Whirlwind Attack: the Maelstrom Adept no longer takes any penalties while performing a whirlwind attack.

This is less than useful. Getting into a situation where Whirlwind Attack is even usable is rare. This does little to nothing, especially considering how late it comes in the class.


Spell Resistance: The maelstrom is difficult to control, and harder yet to stop. The Maelstrom adept gains Spell resistance equal to 15+Class level. Levels in this class stack for determining spell resistance from other sources. (Not magical items or spell effects.)

You should remove the stuff in quotations, as it goes against what the previous sentence says. Consider revising.

On another note, SR is kind of jank for PCs, as it harms more than it helps. See the entire school of Conjuration.


Superior Evasion (Ex): This ability works like improved evasion, except that while the adept takes no damage on a failed save. A helpless adept (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of superior evasion, but does gain the benefit of normal evasion.

Is normal evasion just Evasion or also Improved Evasion? Doesn't really do much. Moar class abilities would be nice here, similarly.


Living Maelstrom: The maelstrom adept is no longer merely an adept, it is a maelstrom. Its standing storm extends out to 10 feet, and any opponent moving within 15 feet of the character is subject to attacks of opportunity. The character is able to move 10 feet on any turn, as the sudden movement ability. When the maelstrom is does not invoke the standing storm it is limited to a five foot radius, as a permanent effect that can be subdued with a successful concentration check DC:25. This ability functions even while unconscious, and the standing storm no longer tires the character. It may, in addition, move and attack normally while using the standing storm.

For the increased reach, just say so, as some creatures (read: larger than medium) gain no benefit from the 15 ft. AoO range. See comments on Sudden Movement as well. How long does it take to subdue the effect? Is it once/round or what? The concentration check to have it down completely seems unneeded.


Swift Passage: At any time on its turn, once per round the Maelstrom Adept may move any distance up to it's maximum movement as a free action. This ability does not function while helpless. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, it is merely here... now there.

Again, should simply be an Immediate Action.


Abilities: Dexterity and Strength are most important to an adept, Strength gives extra damage to the storm. Dexterity improves its abilities. Intelligence and Constitution are also important.[/quote]

Fluff, which the class needs moar.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 02:53 AM
Knowledge: Arcana and Concentration look off being at 8 ranks for a martial only class. Nature would probably be better than Arcana; both should probably be only 4 ranks.
4 ranks would make this class available at level 4 to a properly built Character.

Feats are insanely wut. The Spring Attack line is generally considered... poor. Best option is probably to drop down to only requiring Mobility, maybe, maybe spring attack, giving the other feats throughout the PrC. Good idea.


For the special requirement, throw down the "lose all abilities" shenanigans and just copypasta the Ex-Whatever text from the monk or barbarian. As written, you lose everything, not just benefits of this class. Will reword it.


It's a table. Could probably use a good Fort save, but, whatever. Alright.


HD looks light. Skills look a little light.Yes, because it should be able to blender everything without ever having to worry about health.


The heavy armor bit seems unnecessary, but, eh. What heavy armor?


The more than one 5 ft. step at greater than an immediate action is of wut levels. One extra 5 ft. movement as an immediate action is good. Multiple 5 ft. steps in and of themselves are okay, mainly useful for helping skirmish. See any discussion about Abrupt Jaunt. The dodge bonuses are meh. it still can only take a 5ft step on each turn. so if five people were playing in an arena, it could, theoretically, get an extra 20 ft movement each round.


This isn't bad, but it's basically Combat Reflexes, but different. Combat Reflexes is weak, I supoofed it.


This is more than useful, considering that natural attacks become even better than normal. It would be simpler to just have the ability mimic Blade Barrier with CL = HD or x2 PrC level.
Simpler, but less effective, this is intended to be an effect of the character attacking constantly, in all directions.


This is less than useful. Getting into a situation where Whirlwind Attack is even usable is rare. This does little to nothing, especially considering how late it comes in the class. Alright, I'll make it Supreme Whirlwind.


You should remove the stuff in quotations, as it goes against what the previous sentence says. Consider revising.not really against, but adds limitations. Will reword.

On another note, SR is kind of jank for PCs, as it harms more than it helps. See the entire school of Conjuration. [QUOTE] SR only blocks harmful spells, have a look at the description in the DMG.

[QUOTE]Is normal evasion just Evasion or also Improved Evasion? Doesn't really do much. Moar class abilities would be nice here, similarly. It allows you to use Evasion when helpless. How is that 'doesn't really do much'?


For the increased reach, just say so, as some creatures (read: larger than medium) gain no benefit from the 15 ft. AoO range. See comments on Sudden Movement as well. How long does it take to subdue the effect? Is it once/round or what? The concentration check to have it down completely seems unneeded. It is an innate ability, always on. They have to suppress it. See Nymph: Unearthly Beauty. Reach issues fixed, and solved.


Again, should simply be an Immediate Action.
Will correct.

Fluff is a nonspecific.

Updated

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 03:48 AM
4 ranks would make this class available at level 4 to a properly built Character.

Er, outside of Kensai or Inspire Greatness shenanigans, the BAB requirement covers that issue. As this is a martial only class, it is unlikely that the base classes for which this PrC is intended will not be able to get 8 ranks until 13th level, which is why I said the skills should only require 4 ranks each.


Yes, because it should be able to blender everything without ever having to worry about health.

Eh, without something like sneak attack or skirmish, you're going to reach some issue with MAD getting the requirements for enough TWFing and strength for damage. Of course, there's always Power Attack for moar damage.


What heavy armor?

The issues with the abilities not working in it.


it still can only take a 5ft step on each turn. so if five people were playing in an arena, it could, theoretically, get an extra 20 ft movement each round.

At any given time, there are NI people taking actions in a round, as around is a mere 6 seconds. Basing your abilities on how many doods there are in a battle does not work terribly well. It would be easier to allow for an extra immediate action or so for an additional 5 foot movement, but that doesn't solve the problem that you can just use said 5 foot movement to get out of any possible dodge, which is why I mention the similar issues with Abrupt Jaunt.


Combat Reflexes is weak, I supoofed it.

Combat Reflexes works for trip builds and general melee control. It is by no means weak, as it does what your class does save for how it gains the extra AoOs per round. This leads us to another issue: your class doesn't really support abilities for AoOing, as people will keep distance due to the aura of damage.


Simpler, but less effective, this is intended to be an effect of the character attacking constantly, in all directions.

Let me be honest: the wording needs work like nails need hammers. Being able to do damage based on possible number of attacks in a round is risky. By virtue of BAB, you get 4. Add in possible TWFing, AoOs, natural attacks, braid blades, and whatever else you may have, your 5d8 easily becomes (1d8+8)x(15 [from BAB and AoOs) plus (1d6+4)x(3 [possible TWF]) plus whatever natural attacks are available. The bonuses are sure to be off, but it's something of a can of worms scenario.

Which is why I said that just using Blade Barrier gets the job done without this sort of problem without overhauling the wording. On a similar note, meleers don't have issue with damage, but rather with responses to "I win" abilities and all around general, effective options.


Alright, I'll make it Supreme Whirlwind.

Will wait till it's up to PEACH.


not really against, but adds limitations. Will reword.

See above.


SR only blocks harmful spells, have a look at the description in the DMG.

Er, no.
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance)

Further down, the page, there is no mention on whether the (harmless) tag stops SR or not. While a decent houserule, it is neither RAW nor RAI.


It allows you to use Evasion when helpless. How is that 'doesn't really do much'?

If you're helpless, chances are you're about to eat a coup d'grace, not another reflex save for half spell.


It is an innate ability, always on. They have to suppress it. See Nymph: Unearthly Beauty. Reach issues fixed, and solved.

Right, which I say is poor design, as it means that even while asleep, a Maelstorm Adept will have this effect up. To suppress it is a concentration check, but you don't say for how long that lasts. Therefore, it would simply be easier to have it turn off and on as a swift action rather than dealing with the ramifications of having some dood walk into town, fail a check and destroy a local yocal's house.




Fluff is a nonspecific.

Fluff, while having no effect on the abilities, helps to paint a better picture of the people who use this class, what their usual motives are, and whom they may have ties.


EDIT: Just saw the addition of the new skill, which is largely unnecessary, as Knowledge: Dungeoneering covers Aberrations and similar crazy Far Realms fun while Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft cover general MAGICKS! and Knowledge: The Planes covers crossplanar shenanigans.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 03:56 AM
Actually, first off, on the topic of spell resistance: To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance. (The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks.) If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.
Against Magic Attacks
Healing is not an attack, buffing is not an attack, so unless you choose to not be healed or buffed, it will effect you. It is a passive defense, so yes, it could be Taken as meaning you would need to be aware of it so your SR does not effect it, but, it specifically states: Magical Attacks.

I can make one that can do it. With a human fighter, just take skill specialization so you can increase your skill ranks by 2 more than normal. look at that, level 1 and I meet the requirements for the skills. At level 3 I have all the requirements aside from BAB. Which is fixable. With a bit of powergaming I can have this at 5th level. Even 4th if I wish to go directly for it.

Will reword so it can be shut off/turned on at will.

Done.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 04:00 AM
*snip*

Say I don't want to Teleport. Despite the (harmless) tag, Teleport can be used offensively, much like Cure X Wounds. Therefore, (harmless) does not always mean beneficial, therefore SR stops all magic, as all magic is technically offensive. Q.E.D., SR stops (harmless) spells.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:03 AM
If teleport is being used offensively it is an attack and SR stops it. It is simple, you are attempting to overcomplicate it.

Hyooz
2010-05-20, 04:03 AM
Actually, first off, on the topic of spell resistance: To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance. (The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks.) If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.
Against Magic Attacks
Healing is not an attack, buffing is not an attack, so unless you choose to not be healed or buffed, it will effect you. It is a passive defense, so yes, it could be Taken as meaning you would need to be aware of it so your SR does not effect it, but, it specifically states: Magical Attacks.

I can make one that can do it. With a human fighter, just take skill specialization so you can increase your skill ranks by 2 more than normal. look at that, level 1 and I meet the requirements for the skills.

Will reword so it can be shut off/turned on at will.

Uh, actually, regarding spell resistance:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#whenSpellResistanceApplies

Healing spells, buffs, etc. all fall under categories where Spell Resistance applies. Even the more general wording of spell resistance just says resistance to spells, not magical attacks. Between this and the bizarre BAB clause you've included with a lot of your PrCs, I might recommend getting a more thorough understanding of the rules before doing too much more homebrew. It helps to know what kind of phrasing is necessary and that kind of thing.

EDIT: The line in question: "Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. (Some spells also grant spell resistance.)" Be affected by spells, not magical attacks.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:05 AM
{Scrubbed}

Hyooz
2010-05-20, 04:07 AM
... I'm sorry?

Here's the thing: We don't write classes according to what X DM might rule. That's impossible. We write according to the standards set in the rulebooks and the rules in the rulebooks. The rules are the only standard we have to compare anything to, so it's frankly silly to include unnecessary things or argue misinterpretations of the rules. I don't know where you think I'm trolling or being insulting, since I was only trying to help clarify the issue, but if you don't want help, I guess you don't want help.

EDIT: I quoted the first paragraph to you. You're reading something into the rule that isn't there.

"Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. (Some spells also grant spell resistance.)

To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance. (The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks.) If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate."

I see where you might be confused, given the aside in parenthesis, but that's descriptive, not prescriptive. The rules surrounding it, which are telling you how SR works, are the rule. A spellcaster needs to beat the SR to affect a creature with a spell that allows SR. Period. Then it goes on to describe when SR applies in more detail, none of which mentions the spell being harmless or cast by a buddy. In fact: see Cure Light Wounds

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/curelightwounds.htm

Allows for SR. To heal a person with SR, the person needs to either drop the SR, or the caster has to beat the SR. Period.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:08 AM
I write mine according to the rules in the books, and with wording specificly so that said DMs cannot crap their PCs.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 04:08 AM
{Scrubbed}

You could also check the FAQ, if you wish. Although it is not RAW, it does at least support the internal logic of the rules found on the SRD, DMG, and Monster Manual on the issue of SR.

Simply because you had a DM who abused some of the finer aspects of RAW (Monks are not proficient with their unarmed strikes, for examples) does not mean that they are not at least using other rules - in this case, SR - properly.

EDIT: As for PEACH, it stands for "Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly," which I at least have done. I mentioned certain issues with the PrC, such as the SR, while mentioning what could be done to fix the issue. It does not mean that all people say something as "cool PrC, I'mma gunna use it."

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:13 AM
Those DMs warp any rule they can to the players' disadvantage. I.E. Since a bastard sword s a two handed sword without the EWP it is large, (As interpreted) therefor, even when proficient you take a penalty for wielding a weapon of inappropriate size when using it one handed. They even munchkin their NPCs to the point where some of them can get infinite rounds, such rules as interpreted do not apply to the PCs, unless unfavorable.

-.- I do not expect such things as 'cool PrC' I also do not expect 'go back to reading the books' or 'my interpretation is the only right one.' SR states, in its description: Magical Attacks, as I pointed out.

Hyooz
2010-05-20, 04:15 AM
... And some DMs are fair, and play according to the rules? These are the DMs we bother to play with, and don't walk away from in disgust. You can't account for every little DM ruling that might try to screw you, so you use phrasings that have a basis in the rules so there's less room for misinterpretation, because you're interpreted according to the rules in the book.

And yes, SR applies to magical attacks. IT ALSO, however applies to magical aids. As stated just after what you quoted.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:17 AM
SR description is updated to account for non-hostile spells. Thank you for pointing it out, I apologize for my argument.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 04:17 AM
Those DMs warp any rule they can to the players' disadvantage. I.E. Since a bastard sword s a two handed sword without the EWP it is large, (As interpreted) therefor, even when proficient you take a penalty for wielding a weapon of inappropriate size when using it one handed. They even munchkin their NPCs to the point where some of them can get infinite rounds, such rules as interpreted do not apply to the PCs, unless unfavorable.

The Bastard sword size bit probably stems from 3.0, which could be seen as a valid abuse. As for infinite rounds, that's easy: Alienist+ Shaped Planar Bubble, but that's TO.

Of course, those are both red herrings. Whether or not your past "DM rules warps" took place has no bearing on weather or not SR applies to (harmless) spells. Both Hyooz and I cited explicit, sources where this is the case while you have continued to mention past issues not relevant to this issue. I could grab the FAQ, if needed.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:19 AM
Please read my previous post. I corrected the classes SR issue.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 04:22 AM
Please read my previous post. I corrected the classes SR issue.

I noticed. There are still possible issues where problems would arise, but it is better now. However, I personally feel that a different ability other than SR should be there.


As for not reading the post, my connection is not the greatest. Combined with the facts that I can occasionally get a little verbose and this particular conversation has gone at quite a rate, I am not always up to date when I post. Meh.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:23 AM
I could make it so they gain a save even if one is not normally allowed, and a bonus to saves versus magic equal to their class level.

Hyooz
2010-05-20, 04:25 AM
Not a bad idea, actually. And one you rarely see. Might be tricky to word though.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:27 AM
"The maelstrom adept is difficult to hinder or stop, being always in motion. At level # they gain a bonus to saves vs magic equal to their class level. This bonus remains equal to their class level as they progress. In addition if the maelstrom adept is effected by a spell or spell-like, or supernatural ability that allows no save, the maelstrom adept is allowed a save."
?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-20, 04:29 AM
"The maelstrom adept is difficult to hinder or stop, being always in motion. At level # they gain a bonus to saves vs magic equal to their class level. In addition if the maelstrom adept is effected by a spell or spell-like, or supernatural ability that allows no save, the maelstrom adept is allowed a save."
?

"Magic" should probably read "Spell and abilities." The bit on no-save abilities seems fine.

Ralasha
2010-05-20, 04:31 AM
"The maelstrom adept is difficult to hinder or stop, being always in motion. At level # they gain a bonus to saves vs spells and abilities equal to their class level. This bonus remains equal to their class level as they progress. In addition if the maelstrom adept is effected by a spell, spell-like, or supernatural ability that allows no save, the maelstrom adept is allowed a save."

Better?

Sir_Chivalry
2010-05-20, 01:22 PM
Does Sudden Movement count against movement for the round? i.e. does a maelstrom adept use that ability and then is not able to move as much on the next round? You need to specify whether it counts against total movement (these things usually do)

Ralasha
2010-05-21, 12:21 AM
Clarified. It can no longer be interpreted as taking away movement from the next turn/round.