Eldricht Theurge Help

[Grifthin]

Hey guys, I'm looking at playing a Eldricht Theurge. Since Both warlock and Sorceror use Charisma I'd like to use them as the base class. Can you guys recommend any feats ? Also what would be the easiest way into the class ?
I want to play a blaster so a high CL would be ideal.

[Ferrin]

Take Precocious Apprentice and enter at level 6. There's also the kobold shenanigans to increase your sorcerer casting side but I don't like that much cheese. (I'd say take 4 levels of warlock for the take 10 on Use Magic Device)

Take Practiced Spellcaster to solve your Caster level issues. It kind of depends on whether you want 9th level spells by level 20, because if you do then I don't recommend taking a sorcerer.

[Greenish]

Take Precocious Apprentice and enter at level 6. There's also the kobold shenanigans to increase your sorcerer casting side but I don't like that much cheese. (I'd say take 4 levels of warlock for the take 10 on Use Magic Device)Greater Draconic Rite is hardly cheese, it merely brings sorcerers on par with wizards (in terms of spell level access).

Now then, Sovereign Archetypes and white-spawning yourself, well, you don't have to go that route.

[Ferrin]

I meant smellier cheese then that, Greenish. I'm totally fine with the draconic rites.

[Greenish]

I meant smellier cheese than that, Greenish. I'm totally fine with the draconic rites.You never know where people draw the line, so I thought to clarify. Some people file taking the basic four charger feats under "foul cheese".

[Ferrin]

You never know where people draw the line, so I thought to clarify. Some people file taking the basic four charger feats under "foul cheese".

The basic 4 charger feats? You mean Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Leap Attack and Shock Trooper, right? Well, it's the cheesiest thing fighters can get there hands on, and even then it's a bit bland.

But you're right, I should have clarified myself with what I consider to be foul cheese regarding the kobold.

[Grifthin]

Umm - perhaps a bit clearer for us that don't know what your talking about ?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warlock 4/ Sorcerer 1/ Eldritch Theurge, and qualify with Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon along with any Bloodline feat (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) (page 112+) other than a native bloodline. A few of those won't cost you any spell options, but you could pick any of them and use your invocations to cover what it takes away, such as taking Serpent Bloodline if you plan on using Fell Flight. Another idea would be to see if taking Fey Bloodline could be used as a substitute for Fey Heritage for example, so you could take Fey Power and maybe Fey Skin without spending the extra feat. That could also work for Fiendish Bloodline/Heritage, or just go with whichever one is best suited to your character's origins.

[Greenish]

Umm - perhaps a bit clearer for us that don't know what your talking about ?Races of the Dragon web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) has a ritual that will increase your kobold's sorcerer level by one. That's not bad.

Sovereign Archetypes from Dragons of Eberron allow the DM to customize true dragons to make them be more martial/castery/whatever. One of them, loredrake, grants you two levels of sorcerer casting in return to changing your racial hitdice to mere d10s. The only requirement on taking the archetypes is being true dragon, which allows (under some readings) kobolds with Dragonwrought feat (from Races of the Dragon) to qualify, and as they have no RHD they lose nothing.

White Dragonspawn from Dragonlance Campaign Setting is a template that grants a handful of benefits, among them +1 sorcerer level. The template is +3 LA, or if you're under the thrall of the dragon, +1. Some mental agility is needed, but you could be under your own thrall since as a dragonwrought kobold you count as a dragon. Obviously, you can't give the template to a dragon, but since (by some readings) templates are added before feats, you can make yourself your own thrall before you become a dragon (which you will by fluff do when you're born).


And this is called "cheese", though in the end it's rather minor.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

White Dragonspawn from Dragonlance Campaign Setting is a template that grants a handful of benefits, among them +1 sorcerer level. The template is +3 LA, or if you're under the thrall of the dragon, +1. Some mental agility is needed, but you could be under your own thrall since as a dragonwrought kobold you count as a dragon. Obviously, you can't give the template to a dragon, but since (by some readings) templates are added before feats, you can make yourself your own thrall before you become a dragon (which you will by fluff do when you're born).


And this is called "cheese", though in the end it's rather minor.

Not exactly. The different color Dragonspawn templates have different level adjustments, White Dragonspawn is +1 regardless of role playing implications. They're all acquired templates, meaning the character wasn't born with it. Furthermore, it can only be added to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, it is impossible for a creature of the dragon type to become a dragonspawn. Dragonwrought Kobolds are recognizable from the time their egg is laid, they are born a dragon, so there is no point in that character's life that he could possibly have acquired the Dragonspawn template. A Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonspawn is not even possible in TO, and to use one in actual play is nothing short of cheating.

[Greenish]

Not exactly. The different color Dragonspawn templates have different level adjustments, White Dragonspawn is +1 regardless of role playing implications.Ah, I see.
They're all acquired templates, meaning the character wasn't born with it. Furthermore, it can only be added to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, it is impossible for a creature of the dragon type to become a dragonspawn. Dragonwrought Kobolds are recognizable from the time their egg is laid, they are born a dragon, so there is no point in that character's life that he could possibly have acquired the Dragonspawn template. A Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonspawn is not even possible in TO, and to use one in actual play is nothing short of cheating.The argument, I've understood, is that mechanically, the template is added first, and feats are selected after that.

But let's not derail the thread more. You're probably right anyway, and it's not like it would come up in most games.

[Grifthin]

I was actually fiddeling around with character builder, and the one thing that looks fun (not powerful mind) - Dromite Half Vampire Warlock/Warmage/Eldritch Theurge.

What do you guys think ? Some Fast healing, resistances, and lots of dakka. Would make a neat self sufficient character.

[Greenish]

I was actually fiddeling around with character builder, and the one thing that looks fun (not powerful mind) - Dromite Half Vampire Warlock/Warmage/Eldritch Theurge.

What do you guys think ? Some Fast healing, resistances, and lots of dakka. Would make a neat self sufficient character.With all that LA and lost caster levels, you wouldn't be really effective. Dromite is cool race, but not quite worth it's LA. Half-vampire is quite poor too for +2 LA. Warmage suffers from a very poor spell list, mostly limited to things that require high CL to be very effective. Very little dakka, not many other tricks.

Yeah, okay, maybe you and your party don't mind you being effective and you can have fun, but I'd just make a dromite sorcerer. (I don't like vampires.)

[Optimystik]

Why go with Sorcerer? As a Bard/Sublime Chord you'll get the same spell list, and with the right build you can qualify for both 9th-level spells and Dark Invocations pre-epic. You'll also get a couple of other nice benefits - tons more skill points, a better list (be the party face since you're already Cha-based) and you can cast all your spells/invocations in light armor without spell failure.)

Bard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)/Warlock 8/Eldritch Theurge 1 (Sanctum Spell)/Sublime Chord 1/ET +9 (advancing Sublime Chord+Warlock.)

The two feats in parentheses above are the key, allowing you to qualify for Sublime Chord with just one level of Bard.

Benefits:

Invocations as Warlock 18 (2 Darks)
Spells as Sublime Chord 10 (2 9ths)
Full ET benefits
You can determine your Sublime Chord caster level by stacking it on your Warlock levels rather than your Bard levels, granting you CL 18.


You don't get any real benefit from Warlock levels 5-8 ether, so feel free to drop PrCs in there as long as they don't delay your casting progression. I advise one level of Mindbender to gain Telepathy and therefore Mindsight. (i.e. instead of Bard 1/Warlock 8, you would have Bard 1/Warlock 5/Mindbender 1/Warlock +2.)

[Paul H]

Hi

Last Eldritch Theurge I had was a Changeling Beguiler 6/Warlock 1/ET xxxx in Eberron campaign. (GM Houseruled Beguiler was Favoured Class for Changelings).

Practiced Spellcaster got past the 3D6 Eldritch prereq. Used the extra abilities from Complete Mage to enhance my Rogue/Spellcasting, and the Eldritch Blast itself to do damage.

1) Beguiler [Armoured Mage, Trapfinding] SF Enchants
2) Beguiler [Cloaked Casting +1 DC, Surprise casting]
3) Beguiler [Advanced Learning - Ventriloquism] PS Warlock
4) Beguiler
5) Warlock [Devil's Sight]
6) Warlock [All Seeing Eyes, Detect Magic at will] Unsettling Enchants
7) ET [DR 1/Cold Iron, Devil's Sight]
8) ET [Fiendish Resilience,See the Unseen]

And so on....

Two levels of Warlock grants the Detect Magic at will, I think that's more useful than Still Spell.

10th lvl you've got spells as 8th lvl Beguiler, Eldritch stuff as 6th lvl Warlock (CL10), +6 to Search/Spot, can See Invis, Darkvision 30' and see in magical darkness. Your Eldritch Blast does 5D6 too.......

Cheers
Paul H

[Optimystik]

Practiced Spellcaster got past the 3D6 Eldritch prereq.

This was a houserule by the way - Practiced Spellcaster does not advance EB. (EB damage is not tied to your CL.)

[nedz]

I really like the Bard/Sublime Chord and Beguiler concepts (though I would probably change the specifics) since they synergise well with warlock; however the OP stated that they wanted to play a blaster.

Earliest entry would seem to be Warlock 3/Sorceror 1(with Precocious Apprentice) or possibly Warlock 3/Wizard 1(with Precocious Apprentice)

Do you really need Warlock 4 for Deceive Item if you are also going to be an arcane caster ?

Edit: Oops, seems you can't do it without taking another level of something because of the skill rank requirements.