FATAL: A Campaign Journal

[Dust]

Before we Begin:
This thread is exactly what it says in the title; a campaign journal for a tabletop roleplaying game. Let's make this a thread that doesn't need the mods to constantly doublecheck for inappropriate content. Please use your best judgement when replying. :smallbiggrin:

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We’ve all heard the horror stories of the game that is FATAL, its nine-hundred-plus pages of disturbed prepubescent content vile enough to have earned the system the title of ‘worst RPG of all time.’ But ever since I read the rather scathing reviews as well as Byron Hall’s rebuttal, I came to the conclusion that Mr. Hall had a point, and not the one perpetually pushing at the zipper of his jeans. The reviews were always amusing and appalling in equal measure, but one after another they failed to do the most important thing, the thing that Mr. Hall mentioned several times in his refutations.

None of them had actually PLAYED the game.

Don’t get me wrong –why would any of them want to, especially when just flipping through the FATAL book was enough to make them want to wretch, when the ‘historically-accurate’ text of the game molested everything that remained pure and good about RPGs.

But the fact remains that Bryon Hall was right – you can’t claim a review as a valid assessment of a product if you’ve never played it. Exalted, at a glance, turns many players off immediately, and yet it has a huge fan following. White Wolf’s ‘Scion’ series looks amazing, but a few game sessions of actual tabletop play reveal that it was poorly tested. Could it be, then, that FATAL does indeed have merits as a game, that actually using it as a system and not an object of mockery could result in something worthwhile?

Ever since then, the five little words on the back cover of FATAL (written in blood-red underneath the image of a nude woman strapped to a sacrificial table looking bored and confused, or perhaps as if she just smelled something unpleasant and was wondering who did it) have haunted me: Play FATAL, if you dare.

And so, with much hesitation and lots of internal apologies, I gathered a few friends (who, I am told, are seriously rethinking that position after this game) and introduced them to the system we’d be using for the next several weeks. To my astonishment, none of them had ever heard of it, which only made things infinitely more tempting.

Join me as I GM a game of FATAL for my unsuspecting pals. Because you never know; it MIGHT be good.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3771/hallz.jpg <- Byron Hall, creator of FATAL RPG

[2xMachina]

Arh! FATAL!

Campaign Journal? Might be interesting to see what happens... Or it might be squick.

[Kaun]

this will be interesting.

*grabs pop corn*

[Bayar]

1. This thread will most likely be taken away to the mystic Mod-only subforum preety soon.

2. In it's latest incarnation it is over 1000 pages long.

3. I doubt that even Byron Hall played his game.

Enjoy rolling 10D100/5-1 for all your stats and stuff. And Writing all your things into your 8 page character sheet. Oh, and losing all your friends for surprising them with a FATAL game.

[Prodan]

I've never understood the argument that you have to experience something to judge it.

I don't have to eat all of an apple to know it's bad; seeing the rotten sagging bits on the surface is enough for me.

[Project_Mayhem]

I believe the problem is that it doesn't actually work. As someone who managed to read most of the rulebook, I think I'm right in saying that the rules are contradictory and incomprehensible. You couldn't play a game of John Doe's diary in Seven.

[Touchy]

1. This thread will most likely be taken away to the mystic Mod-only subforum preety soon.

2. In it's latest incarnation it is over 1000 pages long.

3. I doubt that even Byron Hall played his game.

Enjoy rolling 10D100/5-1 for all your stats and stuff. And Writing all your things into your 8 page character sheet. Oh, and losing all your friends for surprising them with a FATAL game.

And if the last one doesn't make you lose all you're friends, surely a randomly rolled potion will.

[Greenish]

And if the last one doesn't make you lose all you're friends, surely a randomly rolled potion circumference of the sphincter will.Fixed. Ancient romans ate rotten fruits.

[Dust]

I suspect I can still do a FATAL Campaign Journal without being graphic or off-color. You'll just need to use your imaginations to fill in the details.

I once heard about a campaign taking place down at our local gaming shop, where the players were given only two choices on how to respond to any given situation, and they were things like “Do you agree with the beautiful princess that you’re an idiot in order to try and curry favour, or do you agree while attempting to kiss her hand?”
The villain of the campaign was apparently a gladiator named Farticus, who was assisted by his personal healer, an excommunicated priest from the Fartican. The first game session had the male PCs hurl rotten tomatoes at the only other female NPC, after she disguised herself as a beauty contestant in order to dig up some information.

After reading the book cover to cover, I realized I’d rather be playing in that campaign than GMing a game of FATAL. Bryon’s face leers at me from the book.

I’ve managed to snag four players for this ‘game’, two male and two female. A brief introduction of each, real names changed to protect the guilty.

Rock – Loud, crude and combat-focused. He shows up to games wearing dirty plaid with a half-empty bottle of whisky in his pickup truck. Theoretically, if the game was designed for a target audience, it might be this guy. He’s got a penchant for aiming for the genitals in combat.

Achilles – Gaming Stereotypes do not exist here. He’s independently wealthy, doesn’t own a single book or supplement (and instead borrows from his pals), looks like he should be in modelling and enjoys a happy long-term, no-drama relationship. Named because his characters always have one fatal flaw that they seem incapable of ever improving upon that ultimately leads to their (or the game’s!) downfall – they’re childish and prone to temper-tantrums, or suffer from a greedy streak a mile wide, or flee at the first sign of trouble, or secretly have a nuclear warhead connected to their heart.

Blue - Japanese-culture loving gal who doesn’t for one second put up with any of Rock - she often interrupts games to hit him with a book or popcan for his most recent sexist remark. She prefers social storylines and intrigue to anything else, and quickly gets bored if there’s no betrayal or manipulation going on. There’s a long-running joke that she always plays characters smaller than their weapons.

Mouse - She just likes the social aspect of gaming, and doesn’t like getting involved too much in the game because she enjoys giving the others the spotlight. Her characters are usually supportive healing types, cheering on the heroes as she stays out of the limelight as much as possible. Quickly learns new systems.

[Dust]

Right, let’s do this proper. The first thing I point out is that I’m not called a GM – in FATAL, I’m the Aedile (pronounced EE-dile). I tell them that historically, an Aedile was the Roman official in charge of games. My group nods enthusiastically, and part of my brain is wondering if that’s true or not.

I start feeling terrible for putting them through this, not for the first time.

The second thing I do is read a passage out of the book’s introductory chapter almost word-for-word, informing them that FATAL can be a graphically violent game, may include sexual situations as a backdrop, a combination of both, or other situations that may deviate from more social norms. This is for the sake of being historically accurate. However, I add as I notice Blue start narrowing her eyes at me menacingly, the game can be played without ever bumping into any sort of situations like this, they just happen to be in the book for completeness sake.

It comes time for character creation, and I walk the four players through each step. First, racial selection – the book suggests rolling randomly for race, which we’ll be doing. However, if any character gets a racial result that wouldn’t work well as part of the group, they may reroll until they get one that does.

I grimace as I flip the page to racial descriptions, as the first picture included in the book is members of each race standing side-by-side as normal...though in the nude. Awkward, but I can choke that down.

The PC-creation process is mentioned in the book as being some of the most fun you can have in FATAL, which is demoralizing as the process takes close to three hours, and we skipped roughly half of it and didn’t bother to calculate essentials such as Foot Size, Head/Fist Circumference, or the like. I did manage to go by the book as much as possible and we spent an hour figuring out each character’s BMI, height and weight, skin and hair color, and to figure out their most attractive/repulsive features. Heck, we spent a solid twenty minutes rolling out what hair type and thickness each character has. I even made them roll 1d1000000 (six ten-sided dice) to determine if the one-in-a-million chance that they might be a Freak of Nature with an extra nipple or the like. None of them are.

The meek Mouse has to roll a half-dozen times before getting a race that won’t kill every other member of the party on sight. (I did not mention WHY, only read most of the racial descriptions quietly to myself - for example, Bugbears are pirating sorts that attack coastal towns in order to ravish...and then devour....humans. I didn't think she needed to know this.)

The final results are as follows.



Rock is playing a weak Human apprentice Soapmaker who secretly wishes to become a girdlemaker. He has a large chest and a wheezy voice. His long, flowing locks completely offset this and help give him a ridiculously enormous Facial Charisma modifier. The mole on his right cheek makes people assume that he is often the one ‘dumped’ in a love triangle, and he has a deathly allergy to eggs. The game declares he is likely to ‘sleep with his best friend’s spouse and then get caught’ and has low ethics and morals. For each hundred pounds of soap made, he earns 1 AP (Advancement Points). He has a high Spitting skill and enjoys forgery and gambling.


Achilles is playing a Old Human introvert with sexy lips and dumb eyebrows. He is an unhappily-married Baron with only two hundred silver pieces in the royal treasury (enough to buy a single book). He has high Enunciation and common sense, and low spatial intelligence. He can’t do math and has a monotone voice, but could cast spells 32% faster than most people...that is, if he was capable of spellcasting, which he isn’t (which is a good thing, since spellcasters are ravished and then burned alive.) He doesn’t give a whit one way or the other when it comes to ethics, and suffers from a mental disorder that gives him pleasure from pulling out his own hair. Due to his age, the number of skills he has DWARFS the rest of the party by a vast margin.
Barons do not earn AP – instead, every six months (and every seven years) the local economy is checked for an increase. An increase of 5% or more allows the Baron to increase an entire occupational level.


Blue is playing an Infant Bugbear with an obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. She is Neutrally Ethical with Immoral tendencies, and has a both choleric and melancholic temperament. As the book suggests in the racial slurs section, she refers to humans as Poople, not People. Given that she is only a few years old, we agree that this is rather adorable. “She’s like an Ewok!,” Blue laughs.
However, FATAL does not agree. Due to her age, the infant bugbear has six-inch ‘balding’ hair, giving her a rather large negative modifier to facial charisma. Furthermore, her nasal mole proves that she’ll be subject to large financial losses later in life. She’s got a knack for languages and analytical reasoning despite this, and, even though she isn’t even three years old yet, that’s when her earliest memory took place. Blue has asked me if she can be a companion to Mouse.


Mouse is playing a Light Elf Herbalist Schoolteacher with an ego a mile wide and a ‘low average speech rate’. Her skill with Mycology and Plants (but not Trees) is uncontested. It only takes her two seconds to stand up from a fall. Whenever she uses an herb successfully, she earns 10 AP. She can smell wine on someone’s breath from 32 feet away while indoors.
While it’s probably better that she ended up with an Elf instead of a Troll or somesuch, it’s problematic for me because Elves can’t venture far from their forest without dying. Great.

[Dust]

Other than Rock, all three of them are incredibly near-sighted. None of them can purchase basic starting adventurer’s gear. In fact, the prices listed for everything are so incredibly, mind-bogglingly convoluted that the game seems DETERMINED not to allow anyone to play a mercenary, despite it saying earlier that such was the most common occupation for players who are able to choose their own career path. (A career path can only be chosen before a certain age which you have less than a 10% chance of being.)

To continue to drive this point home, a character has an EXTREMELY small chance of being wealthy nobility like Achilles. Barons roll 4d100 to determine their wealth, and a single two-handed archery bow costs 400sp. Arrows are a silver each. A suit of platemail armor costs 20,000sp.


I browse through the book as they create characters, finding myself feeling ill as I glance at the Gore charts and the spell and magic item lists, but managing to remember that this whole experiment is for SCIENCE and IMPARTIALNESS!

I peruse the suggested starting adventure, which has an evil sorcerer (with a name synonymous with a bodily fluid) mass-teleport the players’ entire village (despite the fact that they might not even be the same species or caste) in order to brutally murder them with his Dagger of Soul-Stealing +63, which only requires 479 more souls before it grants the wielder godhood. When the PCs arrive without any sort of weaponry whatsoever, the wizard is staggering around drunkenly in his corpse-littered courtyard singing heavy metal.
He has the following spells prepared: Ascertain Properties, Beguile Enemy, Bestow Blistering Boils, Detect Air, Detect Ether, Detect Lie, Detect Magic, Determine Magic, Electrical Field, Flight, Force Fear, Force Mass Fear, Force Missile, Force Rancor, Force Slumber, Greater Healing, Heating, Immutability, Lesser Electrical Discharge, Lesser Healing, Lesser Mending, Lesser Vulnerability to Fire, Lesser Vulnerability to Weapon, Mass Bidding, Mass Teleportation, Possession, Protection from Discipline (Ether), Protection from Fire, Re-Animation, Regeneration, Seal Orifice, Stronger than Before, and Teleportation, as well as a handful of ones I can't type here.

Mouse asks me if this will be more of a dungeon-crawl or a political adventure, and I wheedle my way out of the question. I realize at this point that there’s no real ‘monsters’ in the book, only two or three pre-assembled representatives of each evil race that I can use.

We call it a night and pack up. I’ve begun to realize how sickeningly awful this is going to be. I wonder if my friends will ever let me GM again.

[Dust]

Game Session #1

Achilles shows up for the game early, and he’s not impressed. He did some research on FATAL in the week between character creation and now, and wants to know what on earth I’m thinking. I explain my theory to him and he seems both amused and intrigued, but annoyed that I’m using them as ‘guinea pigs.” He states that its probably worse on me than on them, having to read the book and LEARN the rules, and volunteers to go along with my ridiculous plan anyway. He warns me that I can’t let Blue EVER see the book.

The others arrive and munch on pizza (even though they ‘re quickly realizing that it’s an obvious bribe) while I set the stage.

The Baron Achilles has fallen on hard times recently – a minor drought and insects have damaged crops, which in turn meant he needed to spend more and more money from his personal treasury to keep the lords and ladies of his shire fed. But the situation has only gotten steadily worse, and the Baron’s once-loyal vassals have begun to turn against him. The Baron’s wife accuses her husband of incompetence, and takes matters into her own hands by putting out a notice that any man, woman or beast able to solve the shire’s food crisis will be well-rewarded, given land and a title as well as a portion of the remaining treasury.
Word of this has stretched across the countryside, past the rolling hills of the Tolian Plains, past the elven home-forest of Aediel’tar. It has even reached the ears of common serfs in a small hamlet, where Rock tires laboriously away. Despite his big dreams, he seems to be stuck making soap until his last breath.

But when Rock’s elder brother comes up with a scheme to cheat the Baron out of the reward, the apprentice soapmaker finds himself intrigued. They’d pose as rainmakers, with Rock creating a signed, official-looking note from a neighbouring kingdom that declared them authentic and thanked them for their services. As an unethical gambling sort, Rock found himself tempted by the proposition and agreed to travel with his brother. They gathered a wagon of their wordly possessions and set out westward.

On their way through the Aediel’tar woods, the two brothers were ambushed by a quartet of kobolds, who attacked viciously with small axes and whips. The brothers, who were unarmed, were forced to leave their wagon behind and flee deeper into the woods. Rock’s sibling was injured and the younger brother was forced to seek assistance. The Light Elves in the woods – though wary of strangers – were kindly and took in both humans. Rock’s brother was treated by their herbalist, and he met both Mouse and Blue and took a liking to the latter immediately. Mouse demanded Rock explain the situation, the rather nervous guest explained he and his brother were weather-controllers of no small skill. Mouse passed this knowledge on to the elves, who found this dubious but also concerning – if what Rock said was true, then getting in his good graces would benefit all of them. When Rock and his brother were granted land, they could request the section nearest the forest, which would prevent any more of the Baron’s vassals from expanding their territory outward and hunting in the forest, trespassing and encroaching on ground that didn’t belong to them.

Mouse made up some excuse about Rock’s brother needing further herbal help and begun travelling with them, bringing the orphan bugbear along as well.

I was feeling good about the plot thus far – it seemed ‘historically accurate’ by FATAL’s standards, included the racial selection, and was by the rules so far. At this point Mouse mentioned she received 10 AP for using a herb on Rock’s brother, and I agreed this was accurate. She asked how much AP is required to ‘level up’ and I started flipping – turns out the number is set by the GM. Remembering Rock’s 1 AP per hundred pounds of soap, I informed her that the magic number was only 20. Once a character ‘gains a level,’ they can switch occupations...in the case of Rock, two thousand pounds of soap would allow him to pursue the life more to his liking. He seemed to realize this, and grumbled about the rate – I can hardly blame him, especially when I saw mages gained TRIPLE the AP ‘for every Magic Point spend when casting spells while in danger, or towards a specific purpose,’ for a total of anywhere between 15 and 5400 AP for a single spell.

I browse through the book and realize that the crafting charts are minimal at best, but there’s also no price given for soap. I check again; aged bodily fluids, three different type of capes, pleasure devices.....but no soap. I quickly rule that it’s the same weight and price as a candle (a good base due to simple numbers), so 1sp for 1kg, made in one day. A few more calculations to account for fatigue, and I learn that Rock would need to spend just under four years working steadily away at this.

FOUR YEARS in order to gain the same amount of ‘exp’ that the player to his left would earn simply from using two healing herbs.

The player snaps (and rightly so) and requests I allow him to reroll his occupation or pick something different. You can probably imagine me cringing as I tell him to reroll. Cheesemaker. De-louser. Papermaker. Dicemaker. Vintner. Wench. He says he’s sick of rolling and wants to be a fighter, but then learns his low physical attributes prevent him from being anything more taxing than a Bookbinder. I am informed that FATAL is ‘effin’ dumb.’ And he returns to his pizza, astonished. Achilles looks smug.

We pack up for the week there, and it'll be several days before the next update.

[RdMarquis]

Well, I'm (morbidly) interested in seeing how this goes. You and your friends are pretty brave to actually tackle this thing.

[Greenish]

Don't say you weren't warned. You probably should have warned your (future-ex-) friends, but then by now they should be getting the picture.

As an aside:
He’s independently wealthy, doesn’t own a single book or supplement (and instead borrows from his pals)That's how you stay wealthy.

[Dust]

They didn't know at the time. :smalleek:

Only one of them has seen the book at this point - I printed it all off and stuck it in a binder, and the ENTIRELY RANDOM character creation means they don't technically need to read it.

(I should add that the campaign is well and truly finished now, and friendships were retained. I was informed that I should bring extra character sheets to the next game I play in 'just in case!' but otherwise no harm was done. We've been playing together for close to a decade, and vindictive is not the word best used to describe us.)

[Lord Loss]

Run. Run While You still can... :smallbiggrin:

I will be watching this.

[Axolotl]

You got peopleto play FATAL without warning them? That's just cruel.

[Eldan]

Seriously, man: tell your colleagues. There's a good chance they will be seriously pissed off otherwise. I mean, imagine this situation:

"Why are you making us play this horrible game?"
"Well, actually, just as an experiment, so I can write about it on the internet."

Does that sound like something that you'd like to hear from your GM?

[Greenish]

He has the following spells prepared: … Force Rancor,…That'll be TPK all alone: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/chron/rancor.jpg
That's just a normal one. Imagine what the Force version must be.

[Saph]

Please please keep on updating this. This is one of the funniest campaign journals I've ever read. :smallbiggrin:

[Amphetryon]

I'm intrigued by an actual effort to run FATAL. I'll be watching.

[Matthew]

Please please keep on updating this. This is one of the funniest campaign journals I've ever read. :smallbiggrin:

Seconded. :smallbiggrin:

[Tinydwarfman]

I have to say, incredibly brave idea, but WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL THEM?!?

[Asheram]

I have to say, incredibly brave idea, but WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL THEM?!?

Because knowing will influence the test and invalidate it. Make sure to serve cake at the completion of the test as a reward. :smallbiggrin:

[Thelas]

Seconded. :smallbiggrin:

Tertiated? :smallbiggrin:
The "official" FATAL leveling numbers, are, iirc, 500 * 2^(current level), but I'm not at all sure about that.

[Bayar]

They didn't know at the time. :smalleek:

Only one of them has seen the book at this point - I printed it all off and stuck it in a binder, and the ENTIRELY RANDOM character creation means they don't technically need to read it.

(I should add that the campaign is well and truly finished now, and friendships were retained. I was informed that I should bring extra character sheets to the next game I play in 'just in case!' but otherwise no harm was done. We've been playing together for close to a decade, and vindictive is not the word best used to describe us.)

I seriously doubt this part here.

You printed up almost 1000 pages. Then you stuck them into a binder. Well, my romanian dictionary has about 1300 pagesand about 8 centimeters thick. You printed all of this.

Was it worth it ? Hell if I can't think about better things to spend my money on. (if I'd do this at my local printing shop, it would cost about...4 RON for 2 color covers, 0.3 ron for every 2 pages, 13.5 for the binding, lets just estimate 287,5 RON for 2 covers and 900 pages. That is about 82 $)

[SaintRidley]

I can't decide if this is the single bravest act in the history of mankind or the single stupidest one.

Either way, I yearn for more.

[Dogmantra]

If you ever get arrested, just show them this thread. Plead insanity.

They'll let you off.

[Greenish]

Tertiated? :smallbiggrin:Quartered, against my better judgement.

[Dust]

You printed up almost 1000 pages. Then you stuck them into a binder.
It didn't cost me a cent to print, and you seem to be forgetting that paper has both a front and a back side. So, 500-ish pages, yes. I don't like gaming books sitting on a computer, and the price was right. Sort of missing the point though, aren't we?

(Though I have to say, the prices you quoted me are cheap. It costs 0.25 canadian for a printed color page in my area, so if I was to actually pay someone to get purchased pdfs converted to physical form it would end up being $80 for about 300 pages. But I digress.)

[Bayar]

It didn't cost me a cent to print, and you seem to be forgetting that paper has both a front and a back side. So, 500-ish pages, yes. I don't like gaming books sitting on a computer, and the price was right. Sort of missing the point though, aren't we?

Yeah, I miss the point of printing FATAL of all things.

[lesser_minion]

I've heard a lot about how much Byron decided to arbitrarily discriminate against certain careers, so I'm not surprised that Rock snapped.

Don't priests get something like 1 AP per hundred years or something?

[potatocubed]

To be honest, I've always had a similar sneaking thought about FATAL - that beneath the awful content lay an equally awful core system. Thanks for confirming this for me. :smallbiggrin:

[Gahrer]

Just... wow. I have heard about the system before but it seems as if the makers deliberatly tried to make it as bad as possible. How can anyone even think of releasing this?

Awesome journal though. I'll keep checking this thread.

[warmachine]

So, beneath the bigotry, misogyny and sexual obsession are character creation mechanics that waste time on trivial details, often create incompatible and unbalanced parties and often creates characters that lack the range of skills and equipment to be adventurers. In this violent world, did any of the party have weapons? Would they be any use in combat? Did they have a decent range of skills to bluff/persuade/sneak/steal/divine their way towards their goal?

On top of this, random character creation often creates characters that the player doesn't want to play. Who would want to play a soap maker? So, beneath all that, it's boring!

[lesser_minion]

In and of itself, random character creation isn't so bad, as long as it isn't too random, and players have at least some ways to bias the whole thing.

It can be interesting, but it shouldn't be forced down the player's throat.

FATAL, however... ewwww.

[Prodan]

It sounds like this campaign journal could be a...

Fatal mistake.

:smallcool:

YEEEEEAAAAHH!!!!!

[lesser_minion]

It sounds like this campaign journal could be a...

Fatal mistake.

:smallcool:

YEEEEEAAAAHH!!!!!

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

:smallsmile:

[Greenish]

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?But the cake is a lie! Yay for old memes!

[Optimystik]

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

That rule is really...

(:smallcool:)

...crummy.

YEEEEEAAAAHH

[Mike_G]

I applaud your honest attempt to seek knowledge and actually play it.

I don't know anyone else who has played it, although a lot of people have read it. I found it too mired in fake "realistic" statistics to ever bother, with a lot of disturbing details, and a lot of factual errors.

The squicky parts of the game could be avoided by having a group whose idea of fun isn't playing sociopathic sex offenders, so that may never come up.

I can't see the totally random character generator working with many groups. Most people want to play a heroic warrior, or a powerful mage, or a swashbuckling outlaw or a master thief. Not many people dream of maxing out their profession in Dung Shoveler.

A noble experiment. I don't have much faith it will prove to be a good game, but kudos for testing the conventional wisdom.

[kamikasei]

I would get some popcorn, but I don't think it's a good idea to eat while I read this.

Someone - Swordguy, I think - has said they tried the game before, though. They avoided the squick and found it just amounted to a crappily-designed, unfun-to-play system, IIRC.

[Mongoose87]

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

:smallsmile:

I guess you could say the sentence is delicious.

YEAAAAAAAAAH!

[Coidzor]

On top of this, random character creation often creates characters that the player doesn't want to play. Who would want to play a soap maker? So, beneath all that, it's boring!

After all, you know what dorfs do to soap makers. :smallamused:

[SuperMuldoon]

oh man, A+ thread. I will be following this!

[DragoonWraith]

Why would you do this? Seriously. Did you at least read the review, the rebuttal (which does more to dissuade me from ever attempting to play FATAL than the review did initially), maybe the TVTropes "Let's read FATAL!" thread? All are horrific.

Like this:

Reviewer: "Great, so FATAL is the date-rape RPG."
Author Rebuttal: "Once again, you take something out of context in order to slander me. Where is dating involved?"(emphasis mine)


in FATAL, I’m the Aedile (pronounced EE-dile). I tell them that historically, an Aedile was the Roman official in charge of games. My group nods enthusiastically, and part of my brain is wondering if that’s true or not.
OK, credit where it's due, Hall's knowledge of Rome and Romans far surpassed his knowledge of Medieval Europe. In fact, a lot of the book seems to be talking about Rome rather than Europe, despite his whole "REALISM!!1" thing. The use of Aedile here is roughly accurate. Most of the Latin spewed across the pages for no apparent reason is correctly translated, too (though I did see at least one that had some tenses off). Why he didn't just set things in Roman times, no one will know, but I think everyone has a sneaking suspicion that he didn't honestly realize they weren't the same.

[Saph]

Why would you do this? Seriously.

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.

[kamikasei]

Why would you do this? Seriously. Did you at least read the review, the rebuttal (which does more to dissuade me from ever attempting to play FATAL than the review did initially), maybe the TVTropes "Let's read FATAL!" thread? All are horrific.
Well,

But ever since I read the rather scathing reviews as well as Byron Hall’s rebuttal,...
But as he explains,

...I came to the conclusion that Mr. Hall had a point... The reviews were always amusing and appalling in equal measure, but one after another they failed to do the most important thing, the thing that Mr. Hall mentioned several times in his refutations.

None of them had actually PLAYED the game.
---

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.

It felt like something from a rather warped game of Dwarf Fortress, except that DF is absurdly detailed across the board and doesn't seem to stack weirdly, worryingly specific details where they'll cause the most squick.

[Jarian]

Your service will be remembered when they lay your sanity to rest. *salute*

[DragoonWraith]

Public service to the rest of the GitPers? You've got to admit, it's freaking hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing through the descriptions of the randomly rolled characters.
Well, if you enjoyed that, I recommend the TVTrope thread on it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7ixhxjqoe9swz1xv4bxgw5h0&page=1). They didn't really attempt to play, but several people rolled characters to see what happened, and they also describe all 900+ pages of awful for everyone's amusement.


And yes, it is hilarious.

[Prodan]

Unfunny meme is unfunny.

And isn't there a rule somewhere that you have to buy everyone cake for repeating it?

:smallsmile:


Don't be so anal.

Did you roll poorly on your circumference check? :smalltongue:

[lesser_minion]

Don't be so anal.

Did you roll poorly on your circumference check? :smalltongue:

Did you completely miss the blatant hypocrisy of referencing two overused unfunny memes in order to complain about one overused unfunny meme?

Because, until I explained it, that was meant to be the joke.

Which you have just made me ruin.

Congratulations.

[Prodan]

Victory is mine.

[Greenish]

Victory is mine.Yeah, step on it and say good-bye to your legs.

[Gametime]

I've heard a lot about how much Byron decided to arbitrarily discriminate against certain careers, so I'm not surprised that Rock snapped.

Don't priests get something like 1 AP per hundred years or something?

I've never read the book, but the TVTropes review claims that 1000 AP is necessary to hit level two. A clerk gets 1 AP per month of service, so just over 83 straight years of clerkship to gain one level.

Honestly, I'm almost more offended by the horrific excuse for game balance than I am by the horrific excuse for "historical realism." I find it easier to believe that someone would enjoy the biased, discriminatory, hypersexualized man-child fantasies implicit in FATAL than that someone would enjoy shaving OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND beards to hit level two as a barber.

[Dogmantra]

Which you have just made me ruin.

Nice job breaking it hero.

Now now, you need a meme in your rebuttal too, else it's just not meta enough. See my revision.

[Jayabalard]

I've never understood the argument that you have to experience something to judge it.

I don't have to eat all of an apple to know it's bad; seeing the rotten sagging bits on the surface is enough for me.There are lots of things that look terrible at first glance but wind up being good.

For example, look into the process for capturing wild yeast or vinegar mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEwOzhyVYyc), which involves leaving juice and fruit peelings sit out until stuff grows in it. It's pretty gross when you think about it. It would be really easy to dismiss it as "I don't need to try it, I can see the rotten fruit peelings and that's enough for me" but, things made with these can be quite tasty.

I'm not saying anything about FATAL, I'm just making a more general remark about the fact that you can't necessarily judge something properly without experiencing it.

[Prodan]

For example, look into the process for capturing wild yeast mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEwOzhyVYyc), which involves leaving juice and fruit peelings sit out until stuff grows in it. It's pretty gross when you think about it. It would be really easy to dismiss it as "I don't need to try it, I can see the rotten fruit peelings and that's enough for me" but really, cider/beer/vinegar/etc made with it can be quite tasty.

From a biochemical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with mold; it has some uses and can benefit humanity. Unlike FATAL.

[Jayabalard]

From a biochemical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with mold; Depends on the mold... some of them are quite deadly.

And even the good ones look pretty gross.

I thought the example was pretty clearly a bad one, since a rotten sagging apple is at the core (haha) of the process needed to gather a wild yeast strain. So, it looks bad at first glance, but it's a bad idea to dismiss it just because it doesn't look appealing.

Personally, I kind applaud someone who's willing to "take one for the team" and try something that looks terrible.

[Bharg]

I really enjoyed reading through your journal. The descriptions of your FATAL characters really are hilarious and they appear to be rather comical than realistic. They escaped the kobolds, entertaining.
I hope that impression is not that misleading and their first real encounters with hostile creatures won't get too 'graphic' and gory. Also liked the screnario.

Don't give up [You and your friends( the cake is a lie!)] and keep up the good work!

[CockroachTeaParty]

This sounds like an amazing game. My friends would probably have a few laffs rolling up characters. Then we'd all die, or lose interest, and do something else. But come on, a soap maker? That's just epic.

[Optimystik]

Now now, you need a meme in your rebuttal too, else it's just not meta enough. See my revision.

That's a trope, not a meme. :smalltongue:
...What's this thread about again?

[Sliver]

Really enjoyed reading this. Will be stalking following.

[TheThan]

Well I applaud your attempt to learn and inform us on this particular game. Fatal is a hard game to take seriously, and attempting to do so certainly earns you kudos in my book. Your friends by the way, earn double kudos as well for (unknowingly) being subjected to it.

[Coidzor]

It felt like something from a rather warped game of Dwarf Fortress, except that DF is absurdly detailed across the board and doesn't seem to stack weirdly, worryingly specific details where they'll cause the most squick.

Well, not yet. Actually... FATAL is pretty much the reason we don't have genitals as a common mod or part of the vanilla game in DF.

[Myatar_Panwar]

The soap making level advancement had me cracking up.

Keep it up. :smallbiggrin:

[2xMachina]

Wow, meme pun thread.

Funnies all around

[Stompy]

Such a good awesome bad what are you thinking? ...interesting idea. I am horrified intrigued.

[SaintRidley]

Well, if you enjoyed that, I recommend the TVTrope thread on it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7ixhxjqoe9swz1xv4bxgw5h0&page=1). They didn't really attempt to play, but several people rolled characters to see what happened, and they also describe all 900+ pages of awful for everyone's amusement.


And yes, it is hilarious.



Attempted to read that thread. It's 49 pages right now. I quit at page 10 because it reduced me to a crying, randomly laughing, headache creature.

[Coidzor]

Huh, I just got tired from all the stuff I had to read.

[Sliver]

I tried, I really tried to read that thread. And the review. And the review of the review. But I couldn't... I just... Can't. :smallfrown:

[Asheram]

Depends on the mold... some of them are quite deadly.

And even the good ones look pretty gross.


Naw. All 'shrooms are good, man.

[DragoonWraith]

I tried, I really tried to read that thread. And the review. And the review of the review. But I couldn't... I just... Can't. :smallfrown:
I read it from page 1 to 48 (the last at the time) in one horror-filled day.

[Lord of Syntax]

RULES FOR HUMAN CLOACAS!
Just some white text!

[Maerok]

FATAL is what you get if you took the essence behind The King in Yellow and made it into a 'game'.

[Coidzor]

RULES FOR HUMAN CLOACAS!
Just some white text!

What? Humans with cloacas?

Wouldn't that make them no longer human?

[DragoonWraith]

What? Humans with cloacas?

Wouldn't that make them no longer human?
You really, really don't want this one explained.

[Dust]

I’ve gotten a lot of messages about what a terrible, terrible person I am for having subjected people to this nightmarishly absurd THING without their knowledge. I want to say right now that you’re all probably right. However, I trust that’s something we can put behind us, just like I’m putting behind the fact that what I’m playing cannot seriously be called an RPG in good conscience, as it is more of a collection of scatological humor, algebra and extreme troll porn.

(It’s really, truly difficult to cope with Byron Hall’s brain. On the one hand I want to call him infantile and disgusting, but on the other, he does actually seem to have the mental capacity to rub two neurons together. I think that’s the worst thing about this book. It’s intelligently typed and referenced, and it attempts to pass off sexist, vomit-worthy ‘information’ as fact. It’s like listening to a monotone University lecture on the grossest paraphilias. Imagine, for a moment, a roomful of male gamers rolling dice to see what injuries are sustained when, instead of freeing the captive princess, they follow the book’s suggestions?)


When I first picked up FATAL I attempted to ‘cheat’ the rules and build characters that actually modeled things that people would WANT to play, and I realized several things about the system. (Each time I realized one of these things, it felt like a very large man was punching me repeatedly in the larynx.)
For example, within the confines of the system, the smartest woman conceivable still has significantly less intelligence than a ‘very smart’ man. This was pointed out in the famous review, and Hall responded saying “I am very proud of how closely this models reality, especially considering the simplicity of the model. It is less biased to consider the mean to be more important than an outlier.”

But this isn’t a game review.
This is a campaign journal, and that is what I intend to provide. There’s a total of two more game sessions before people start walking out and the game ends mid-session, and I need to get to typing from my notes.

And besides, after flipping through the entire book a second time my brain no longer has the cognitive faculties to concoct a more articulate and accurate insult. So.

Look at me still talking
when there's SCIENCE to do.

[Koury]

Look at me still talking
when there's SCIENCE to do.

When I look at FATAL it makes me GLAD I'm not you.

[InkEyes]

You're staring into an abyss here Dust.


It's a really deep one because it rolled an arbitrarily high number.


It's also incredibly narrow because depth and width are governed by separate sub-stats. Each of which is randomly generated with no influence on the other.

[The Glyphstone]

When I look at FATAL it makes me GLAD I'm not you.

I've campaigns to run
There is [censored obscene act] to be done
On the PC's who are still alive.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I've campaigns to run
There is [censored obscene act] to be done
On the PC's who are still alive.
XD So much win....

[Mystic Muse]

Byron Seems to be really glad that his RPG is difficult.

If that meant you had to be smart or you died then I guess I could see why he considers that a triumph. However, looking at reviews he apparently means "I revel in making this the most annoying and long character generation process ever. Also, everything is randomly generated so you get no choice what kind of character you want to play, it isn't realistic at all and you have to randomly generate things that will never come up period."

[Mongoose87]

You're staring into an abyss here Dust.


It's a really deep one because it rolled an arbitrarily high number.


It's also incredibly narrow because depth and width are governed by separate sub-stats. Each of which is randomly generated with no influence on the other.

It's also a very annoyed abyss, because it had to roll 2000d10 to generate its base stats.

[DragoonWraith]

I've campaigns to run
There is [censored obscene act] to be done
On the PC's who are still alive.
More terrifyingly, also on those who are not.

(sorry for the combo breaker, but there was no way I could see to work that into the rest of the song and it had to be said)

[Bharg]

More terrifyingly, also on those who are not.

(sorry for the combo breaker, but there was no way I could see to work that into the rest of the song and it had to be said)

Epic! :smallbiggrin:

~And when you're dead I will be
still...

[The Glyphstone]

Epic! :smallbiggrin:

~And when you're dead I will be
still...[censored obscene act]

Fixed that for you. :smallbiggrin:

[Kaun]

This is so awesome i high fived my cat into the next room.

Please please continue.

[Salbazier]

Oh, my. I 'm impressed that someone is actually willing to try that abomination. I'm glad to hear that your friendship manage to survive this trial.

[Delta]

Look at me still talking
when there's SCIENCE to do.

You, Sir, are a much, much braver person than I am, I salute you! I couldn't even get myself to actually take a look inside the book after reading the review...

[Zeta Kai]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

[huttj509]

So basically we have a system where, based simply on the roll of a die, one character can be playing superman while the other is working off his 4 years of playing Jimmy Olsen.

I wonder which came first, the system or the text. I suspect it was discovered that people might not find it fun to play in these groups, and the author decided to throw in all sorts of inflammatory stuff, so as to have a target for reviewers, get sales, and be able to claim that anyone who disliked it was simply a prude or something.

Heck, even DnD 3.5 doesn't have the class disparities becoming obvious until level 10 or so (+- 5 depending on specifics).

That much difference at level 1? Yer not gonna have a group stickin together unless they decide to ignore their occupations and just be a rovin band of folks giving people unwanted attention. Course, the former soapmaker can't get any better at thuggery unless he sits to the side for 4 years...

[Prodan]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche


Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.
-Leo Tolstoy

[Sliver]

"When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts."

- The Sphinx

[Greenish]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm NietzscheAh, so now we know what he was talking about. I wonder if he used scatomancy or urimancy to know about FATAL before it existed (and if he had any points put into spitting skill).

[warmachine]

I worry that some religious freak or unprincipled demagogue will discover FATAL, start another crusade and never mind its universal condemnation. That the PDF has professional art and layout would make it appear published even though it never was. The crusade would gain momentum when they interview Byron Hall. This crusade would be picked up by the cesspit known as 4chan and then shown as proof of widespread discussion and play.

[Bharg]

Was FATAL even released?

[warmachine]

Only as a PDF. There was even an expansion PDF. Byron Hall wrote that he was looking for a publisher but, obviously, no one touched it. I'm sure a copyshop could print it as a properly bound book.

[InkEyes]

I worry that some religious freak or unprincipled demagogue will discover FATAL, start another crusade and never mind its universal condemnation. That the PDF has professional art and layout would make it appear published even though it never was. The crusade would gain momentum when they interview Byron Hall. This crusade would be picked up by the cesspit known as 4chan and then shown as proof of widespread discussion and play.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. FATAL is the most notorious of the bad RPGs and it's unheard of outside of internet tabletop RPG circles. It's hard to pearl-clutch over a game that's only available in PDF form from websites that warn you that burning the book would be an insult to fire.

[potatocubed]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

I read a quote on RPG.net about one of the guys who reviewed FATAL (I think it was Darren Sartin, but I could be wrong) which runs something like "I think when you reviewed that game you stared into the abyss too long. It didn't just stare back: it plucked out your eyes, climbed into your head and it's driving you around like a car."

[Arakune]

Let's not close this thread by involving RL religion on this. I want to see what happens with the guinea pigs.

[Prodan]

Let's not close this thread by involving RL religion on this. I want to see what happens with the guinea pigs.

Such a exploitative phrase. You should stick with "victims".

[Asheram]

Such a exploitative phrase. You should stick with "victims".

"Who's always last to know, who fills the air with cries?
Who's sanity is blasted and then who usually dies?

The victims, the victims! Tentacles!
The victims, the victims! Tentacles!


*winces*...Just realised how fitting this song is to the FATAL theme...

[Blackfang108]

"Whoss always last to know, who fills the air with cries?
Who's sanity is blasted and then who usually dies?

The victims, the victims! Tentacles!
The victims, the victims! Tentacles!


*winces*...Just realised how fitting this song is to the FATAL theme...

What song is this?

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

[kamikasei]

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

The playtest has already concluded, but there's more of it to be written up, and that's what people want to see.

[Dust]

I did not, no. The entire campaign was three sessions long, and it is completed as of this time. It was only after the horrendousness of the last two sessions that I realized, "Hey, you know who would like to hear about this? The INTERWEBS." and started to slowly type up our, uh, adventures in my spare time. The first session went well, but it barely used the FATAL source material; only for character creation, the rest was just a stock plot that could have been dropped into any fanatsy setting.
It's not until I start getting braver and using more of the book's influences does the proverbial feces hit the rotating air-conditioning unit.

[Asheram]

What song is this?

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

It's Tentacles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2csnVNai-o) from Shoggoth on the roof. Made by the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society.

[ThunderCat]

Also, everything is randomly generated so you get no choice what kind of character you want to play, it isn't realistic at all and you have to randomly generate things that will never come up period."As far as I can tell, a character's sex is chosen by the player, which sort of says it all: It's alright to force a player to play a deformed infant incapable of even the most basic communication, who makes other infants spontaneously puke and copulate within a certain radius, and who will never gain even a single level in its lifetime. But forcing the player to be female is just too cruel...... :smallamused:


Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the next instalment. FATAL is one of the few things that has ever made me laugh out loud over both racial hatred, misogyny, and the top most annoying RTPG trends ever ('realism', elitism, defensiveness, abysmal social skills etc.).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I wonder how much of FATAL's squick he managed to get into before the experiment ended because withouey the squick they could have been playing any ****ty game.

Of course when you bring in actual FATAL material that's when I imagine people start leaving the table.

I worry that I'm a little too interested in what would happen in an actual FATAL game run as intended. I'd never dare experiment with anyone I know though and I'm also scared and put off by the idea of playing/running it online.

Oh if there is squick in you're later sessions you should consider the Brilliant Gameoligists Mature board.

[Mystic Muse]

Here was my reaction to TVtropes reviewing the game.




"Urinating. Urinating is a skill. You have to roll to piss on things. Full page plus chart. It measures how many ounces you can fire off. It gives rules for aiming. Commentary almost impossible. Soul gone. Empty husk of human being. **** this game."

[Greenish]

"Urinating. Urinating is a skill. You have to roll to piss on things. Full page plus chart. It measures how many ounces you can fire off. It gives rules for aiming. Commentary almost impossible. Soul gone. Empty husk of human being. **** this game."I find it amusing that you can fail to notice a minotaur "taking advantage" of you. Actually, no, that's just depressing.

[potatocubed]

I worry that I'm a little too interested in what would happen in an actual FATAL game run as intended.

Nothing good.

[Dairun Cates]

I wonder how much of FATAL's squick he managed to get into before the experiment ended because withouey the squick they could have been playing any ****ty game.

Here's the crazy part. Most people never get past the "OMG SQUICK" phase, but something crazy happens when you do. When you get past the squick of FATAL, under its bad racist, sexist, ever -ist imaginable exterior, lies an EVEN WORSE AND MORE UNPLAYABLE system.

The truth of the matter is, even when you cut out all the horribleness of the "NSFW" stuff, you actually STILL end up with just about the worst system ever. TRUE character creation takes WELL over 3 hours and something like 90% of your rolled statistics will NEVER be used. You also have to roll for your personality and just about every decision (save your physical sex) is left up to the dice. If you had edited out 450 pages of squick, you still have 450 pages of the worst offense to role-playing games.

Let's put it this way. Byron Hall (the creator of fable), didn't even BOTHER to stat out all the classes that he lists, and this isn't just "rock maker" or something stupid like that, the DRUID AND HIEROPHANT (supposedly major classes) are completely unstated. On top of that, combat requires something like up to 40 rolls for one character for one turn.

Then there's the inanity of magic items randomly generating ANY effect on anything. You can actually roll as a GM for a random anachronistic brassiere of decapitation that decapitates the users (REALISM!). Oh, and you have a 1 in 1000 chance of making a magic item that isn't generic, and mages are incapable of leveling since they have no combat magic, and level 1 chaos spells include induce backache while the ones that take days to cast kill 10 million people without a save.

Yep. Even without the squick, there is a LOT to hate, and it still beats just about anything by far. FATAL is a horrible abyss from which there is no return. It is wholly unique in its badness on ALL levels. Even the mechanics alone are enough to melt your brain.

[Sliver]

There was that link to the Lets-Read-FATAL on TvTropes to the first topic that caused it, where there was a link to Byron Hall's rebuttal to Darren's review of the game.


Obviously, they hate F.A.T.A.L. and anyone involved with the game. Their hatred can be only the result of fear*. They are fearful because they know it will be published. They are fearful because the material in the game is supported, and is dissimilar to anything that attracts them**. People fear what is different to them, mostly out of cognitive laziness; it takes effort to explore what is different***.

*I agree. I fear FATAL. I am frightened of the idea that it might get published. I am terrified of the idea that it will become part of my collection even without anyone handing it out to me, as a purchase or a gift.

**It is so dissimilar to anything that attracts anybody, that it does the opposite quite masterfully. I am so revolted by the system that I'm beyond intrigued.

***It takes will too.

On the other hand, if it ever gets published, you can use it as a nice "I hate you" gift.

Maybe it was an attempt at making something so ****ty that it was good. I still think it's a joke gone too far.

[Daimbert]

Here's the crazy part. Most people never get past the "OMG SQUICK" phase, but something crazy happens when you do. When you get past the squick of FATAL, under its bad racist, sexist, ever -ist imaginable exterior, lies an EVEN WORSE AND MORE UNPLAYABLE system.

But after reading all of that, I'm wondering if some of those things could be done better in a better game. Like some of the more adult themes. And ...


The truth of the matter is, even when you cut out all the horribleness of the "NSFW" stuff, you actually STILL end up with just about the worst system ever. TRUE character creation takes WELL over 3 hours and something like 90% of your rolled statistics will NEVER be used. You also have to roll for your personality and just about every decision (save your physical sex) is left up to the dice. If you had edited out 450 pages of squick, you still have 450 pages of the worst offense to role-playing games.

... part of this. In some sense, I LIKE the idea of having a character randomly generated. I'd like it to be more sane -- although that might make it more complicated -- but the idea that your character is built randomly down to personality is actually fairly intriguing. I in some sense do like some of the extended statistics, because it would allow for a generated character that's really, ahem, fleshed out. With some extra sanity tossed in and some of the focus on certain ... organs less emphasized. I'm not happy about decisions being left up to the dice, but I can see it as being interesting to me in a strict roleplaying sense; your stats and rolls determine what you do, but you have to determine how it's done (and why). Which, to me, might lead to something that I consider really interesting: being given a character with a personality and being told "Be that character".

(snipping the stuff that I agree is stupid)


Then there's the inanity of magic items randomly generating ANY effect on anything. You can actually roll as a GM for a random anachronistic brassiere of decapitation that decapitates the users (REALISM!).

I don't know the details of how it works -- because my eyes glazed over in the Let's Read -- but this as a base is at least potentially a really neat way to deal with magic. As long as you have a shot at figuring out what it'll do before you put it on, that it's random makes magic items risky propositions. Adding random spell misfire effects that do really odd things can reduce the dependence on magic in a world. Heck, I think it'd be really neat to have a system where when you enchanted an item it would only pick up a random effect. Yeah, the side effect would be that no one would use it, but if items were random too you might try it just to get something useful. That would make for interesting -- but, yes, somewhat frustrated -- mages.

So, I'd like to find a system with good mechanics that allows for at least the random character generation. I don't know of any.

[kamikasei]

In some sense, I LIKE the idea of having a character randomly generated. I'd like it to be more sane -- although that might make it more complicated -- but the idea that your character is built randomly down to personality is actually fairly intriguing.

Play MAID!

[Dairun Cates]

Play MAID!

Pretty much this, from what I've heard about Maid. Pretty much randomly generates your character, their clothes, and their personality and secret past (Edit: oh, and super powers). It's up to you to do the rest.

FATAL really does take it to another level (even without the squick) though. SKILL POINTS are the very basis of what you can and can't do. These are not only random, but different for each race (in a system that has a level cap). Matter of fact, the difference goes from 1d100 per level all the way to 1d100+75 for Anakim (effectively tieflings). It's one of those things that really has to been seen or read about in detail to believe.

Also, the magic generation is literally as inane as it gets. It essentially boils down to anytime any item is mentioned (ANY ITEM), you roll 1d1000. On 1,000, it's magic. Now roll 1d1000. It can now be one of 30 weird inane ability, except on a 1,000. THEN it becomes one of the crazy random specific magic items. So, as far as I've read, it's a 1 in a million chance of ANY item being one of the magic items that takes up a full 200 something pages to describe. Basically, imagine a full D&D Magic Item compendium and then a note at the beginning that says, "the best odds of seeing one of these items EVER under actual rules is a 1 in 10 shot at seeing 1 in a 2 year long campaign that runs weekly. Enjoy the Book!"

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'm told Rolemaster's magic item creation tables are similar to what you want. I've never played myself but I had a DM who's item creation system was supposed to be based on it and it would be influenced by spells cast during creation, the personality and "karma" of the creator and it's intended wielder if different as well as numerous other factors including skill checks by the creator.

Wow so even if you were just the kind of sicko the game is targeted at you'd still be a million times better off playing a different an equally sick group.

[Dairun Cates]

Wow so even if you were just the kind of sicko the game is targeted at you'd still be a million times better off playing a different an equally sick group.

Yep. Pretty much that.

Even if you enjoy this kind of stuff, you're not likely to be able or want to wade through the math and unnecessary charts. It even gets as bad as actually requiring a quadratic equation you have to solve just to find out the results of a certain action that the game designer actually ENCOURAGES you to perform.

So, the game even sabotages its own aim. You're actively punished throughout the game for playing it as intended. Also, a barber must shave 5 billion beards to hit level 20. Somehow... That's just so baffling that it never ceases to amuse me with a chuckle when I remember it.

[Jarian]

Also, a barber must shave 5 billion beards to hit level 20.

That seems perfectly reasonable. [/tongueincheek]

[Yuki Akuma]

It takes forty-three million, six-hundred and ninety-eight thousand, nine-hundred and sixteen years and eight months of full-time service for a clerk to reach level 20.

Hell, it's eighty-three years until he hits level 2 and can decide "screw this, I'm retraining as a herbalist".

[The Glyphstone]

It takes forty-three million, six-hundred and ninety-eight thousand, nine-hundred and sixteen years and eight months of full-time service for a clerk to reach level 20.

Hell, it's eighty-three years until he hits level 2 and can decide "screw this, I'm retraining as a herbalist".

WMG theory: The Exalted Games of Divinity are actually a game of FATAL, and all the Incarnae had the bad luck of rolling Clerks as their class.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's pretty hard to randomly roll a Clerk. See, first they have to be at least serfs (that is, middle class, because Mr. Hall is a moron), have to have high enough Intelligence and Math...

[RdMarquis]

So, what do you get for reaching level 20 as a clerk? Ye Olde Store Manager?

[Yuki Akuma]

So, what do you get for reaching level 20 as a clerk? Ye Olde Store Manager?

Lots of skill points. That's all leveling up does in FATAL.

Unless you're a spellcaster, in which leveling up also gives you a random chance of increasing your maximum spell level known, as well as increasing your maximum MP.

Also, multiclassing. When you change professions, you keep all of your statistics and skill points, and reset to level one.

You read that right. You could be a level 14 Mage, and then multiclass to Priest and only require 1,000 AP to increase your skill points.

Skill points are based on race, not class, so you can repeat this until you've joined every class and acquired an obscene number of skill points, which determine absolutely everything in the game.

[RdMarquis]

But can't you get that with any other "class"? I mean, is there anything to make it stand out besides whatever menial task you have to perform for EXP?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Good sir, I salute you.

[Yuki Akuma]

But can't you get that with any other "class"? I mean, is there anything to make it stand out besides whatever menial task you have to perform for EXP?

Classes get a few paltry bonuses to skills in most cases. Some get special powers, like the Sorcerer's access to magic or the Assassin's special attacks.

But usually you get all the bonuses from your class at level 1. There are only a very few classes that make advancing in levels worthwhile - the spellcasting classes, mainly.

[RdMarquis]

Ugh. I'm still not convinced Hall didn't design this monstrosity to make sure people had a bad time playing it.

[Dairun Cates]

That seems perfectly reasonable. [/tongueincheek]

I always wondered which barber they were talking about when they told that riddle about "the barber shaves every man that doesn't shave himself". Guess they really meant EVERY MAN, huh?

Edit:

Ugh. I'm still not convinced Hall didn't design this monstrosity to make sure people had a bad time playing it.

Usually when someone does that, there's usually a dead giveaway to it. At times you think you've found that in FATAL, but then it's taken to such an extreme level.

Think about it this way. If it IS basically just a trolling. This was likely at least 1,000 hours of work (pretty low for a 900 page work, but this thing is BARELY edited) to troll the small portion of table top gamers that have actually heard about it. In reality, there probably are less than a thousand people that have actually read the pdf and opened it despite its infamy, and even then, most people have heard of it because of an RPGnet review. There's no way Byron Hall could've seen that coming. So, he may have intended to originally troll a maximum of how many people? A hundred, two hundred at most.

Now, I don't know about you, but I actually find something more disturbing about someone wasting the time to type this bunk out for the sole purpose of just being a troll, that defies even the "good taste" that most regular trolls have, just to really irk and upset a handful of people than a person who is honestly the Ed Wood of Tabletop games. Don't get me wrong, the second option is pretty horrible. But said person is merely disturbed and needs help while the person that did this as a troll is quite frankly anti-social on a level that you shouldn't be able to comprehend as a human being capable of any emotion other than hate.

So yeah. Basically:
1. I get the gut feeling that this guy was serious from what I've read. It lacks the classic marks of a trolling.

2. I REALLY don't want to think someone is capable of this out of spite.

[Mike_G]

I think it was an honest, but bad, attempt at designing a gritty game.

The "history" and "realism" are pretty poor, honestly. The attempt at incorporating gritty, unpleasant details is understandable, if you like that sort of thing, but I think it probably took on a life of its own. I mean, racism, sexism, blatant classism were all common throughout history, and lots of wandering band of armed men did rape an awful lot of camp followers, citizens of conquered towns, and villagers who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I can see somebody looking at the typical, politically correct, cleaned up faux medieval game settings and wanting a Dark Ages setting with the warts included.

But, dude, nobody needs to calculate circumferences for bodily orifices to help with the rape simulation charts.

And, the bad design kinda makes sense since it was probably not extensively playtested.

I mean, I read maybe twenty pages, went from interest to morbid curiosity to shock to disgust and gave up. A friend had heard about it being "the most realistic and gritty" system or something like that and downloaded it.

If it were less concerned with wallowing in sexual misconduct, maybe it would have been played, and changes made, and it might have made some sense.

[Inhuman Bot]

I haven't read the whole thread, so a mod or someone may have mentioned this already, but...

Every other time there's been a FATAL thread, it's been locked.

Just saying.

[Saintjebus]

Based on how long this one has gone on, I think that it is probable that the original poster received permission from the mods before posting.

[Optimystik]

Or he just managed to avoid all the {scrubbed} and {scrubbed} that usually goes on in FATAL, to focus solely on the bad mechanics.

[Maerok]

I mean, I read maybe twenty pages, went from interest to morbid curiosity to shock to disgust and gave up. A friend had heard about it being "the most realistic and gritty" system or something like that and downloaded it.

Just because you have stats for everything don't make it "realistic". But it does make the actual system itself pretty "gritty" (hopefully enough to sand down a d100 into a shiv and stab your eyes out).

[Saintjebus]

Or he just managed to avoid all the {scrubbed} and {scrubbed} that usually goes on in FATAL, to focus solely on the bad mechanics.

That, too. For a FATAL thread, this one is remarkably clean and well-behaved.

[Sliver]

I donno... Making barbers, soap-makers or clerks work most of their lives to advance into something meaningful makes sense. It's just not something anybody would fine fun to play.

It's like the man said "Oh, you complain about class balance in 3.5e? I'll show you problems with class balance!"

[Connington]

Classes get a few paltry bonuses to skills in most cases. Some get special powers, like the Sorcerer's access to magic or the Assassin's special attacks.

But usually you get all the bonuses from your class at level 1. There are only a very few classes that make advancing in levels worthwhile - the spellcasting classes, mainly.

I'm sorry, but have you actually devoted time to figuring out how to optimize FATAL? I mean, even if all of that is fairly obvious just from having a basic understanding of the rules, it seems like a strange investment.

[averagejoe]

I'm sorry, but have you actually devoted time to figuring out how to optimize FATAL? I mean, even if all of that is fairly obvious just from having a basic understanding of the rules, it seems like a strange investment.

Heck, I probably could have told you that just from reading the review. Realizing the brokenness of FATAL's leveling system requires little to no time investment. As soon as people start talking specific, mapped out builds you have room to talk.

[The Cat Goddess]

I'm sorry, but have you actually devoted time to figuring out how to optimize FATAL? I mean, even if all of that is fairly obvious just from having a basic understanding of the rules, it seems like a strange investment.

For some people, things like optimization and the like happen automatically.

[Connington]

As soon as people start talking specific, mapped out builds you have room to talk.

How do you map out a build when your starting character is almost entirely randomly generated?

Okay, it's possible I suppose, but my GM tends to frown when I bring a box of dice sorted by what face they'll fall on.

[DragoonWraith]

I believe, in theory, you get to choose which class you're gaining at each level. You don't really get to choose what that class does for you, so really all your choosing is your experience-gaining-gimmick (unless you choose a spellcaster or Assassin or something), but there is that.

[Delta]

I donno... Making barbers, soap-makers or clerks work most of their lives to advance into something meaningful makes sense. It's just not something anybody would fine fun to play.

But that is exactly the problem, they don't have to work most of their lives to advance into "something meaningful", the clerk has to work for ALL his life just to get from level 1 to 2, in a 20-level system. That doesn't make sense, that's just ridiculous.

[Delta]

I'm sorry, but have you actually devoted time to figuring out how to optimize FATAL? I mean, even if all of that is fairly obvious just from having a basic understanding of the rules, it seems like a strange investment.

Sometimes, ways to optimize a game are that obvious that it's really hard to miss them even when just skimming through a game.

[Sliver]

The best way to optimize in FATAL is not to play it.

It's like The Game.

[potatocubed]

Also, a barber must shave 5 billion beards to hit level 20.

Assuming 15 minutes to shave a beard and 8-hour working days, that's... about 430 years of shaving.

[Sliver]

Assuming 15 minutes to shave a beard and 8-hour working days, that's... about 430 years of shaving.

Only if you always have a beard to shave. Which I doubt.

[Dairun Cates]

Only if you always have a beard to shave. Which I doubt.

I'm sure there's an obscure spell that the poor mage that can't gain exp because his spells are worthless in combat (and are required to be cast in combat to give exp) that can give you beards to shave and the ability to speed it up or do more than once.

That's called party synergy.

[potatocubed]

Only if you always have a beard to shave. Which I doubt.

Science!

Assume 50% of the population are men, and 50% of men desire to remain more-or-less clean-shaven. Assume again that a man requires a shave once every 7 days. These assumptions are in line with FATAL's general level of realism, which is to say they're completely arbitrary.

A barber needs 32 men per day to fill his 8-hour work schedule. That's 224 men per week, which means to sustain his QUEST FOR BEARD XP he needs a population of 896 people.

Now! Because all professions in FATAL are randomly generated, we can work out exactly what proportion of the population are barbers (or at least, someone with the pdf handy can) by looking it up on the table. If that proportion is less than 1/896, then it's plain sailing all the way to level 20!

If you've got a 500-year lifespan, anyway.

[Coidzor]

That, too. For a FATAL thread, this one is remarkably clean and well-behaved.

Well, there's only so many times we can chant "{Scrubbed}, Murder, Kill, More {Scrubbed}, some bad mechanics, a pinch of sociopathy, leave to fester in the subconsciousness of Anonymous, and add sexual deviancy to taste," before it gets boring. Or we need to stop to take a drink.

FATAL, while a bad system, isn't getting any worse with time and desensitization to it.

And, well, it was born on the internet, if you can call it birth. ...Or Living.

[Bayar]

Well, there's only so many times we can chant "{Scrubbed}, Murder, Kill, More {Scrubbed}, some bad mechanics, a pinch of sociopathy, leave to fester in the subconsciousness of Anonymous, and add sexual deviancy to taste," before it gets boring. Or we need to stop to take a drink.

FATAL, while a bad system, isn't getting any worse with time and desensitization to it.

And, well, it was born on the internet, if you can call it birth. ...Or Living.

That chant sounds like it comes from a metal song, at least the first part. And it wasn't a birth really...more like an abortion.

[Coidzor]

FATAL the Atropal, was a something something something, and something, something, something, and he'll rape you in the ear!

:smalleek:

[RdMarquis]

Woah, did you just read my mind, or something? That was what I was thinking.

[Yuki Akuma]

For some people, things like optimization and the like happen automatically.

Pretty much.

FATAL's class and skill system is fairly easy to optimise, anyway.

[Daimbert]

Play MAID!

I hadn't thought that that would work ... but after reading it, except for the fact that it clearly isn't intended to be a simulation, it really does sound like a less detailed, better done version. I might have to pick it up ...

[JediSoth]

Science!

Assume 50% of the population are men, and 50% of men desire to remain more-or-less clean-shaven. Assume again that a man requires a shave once every 7 days. These assumptions are in line with FATAL's general level of realism, which is to say they're completely arbitrary.

<SNIP>

I wish I was one of these men who needed a shave only once every 7 days. If I don't shave every day, it's pretty darn obvious.

[Weimann]

I am horrified in that MAID is cited as the spiritual descendant of FATAL :smalleek:

[Yuki Akuma]

I am horrified in that MAID is cited as the spiritual descendant of FATAL :smalleek:

Look up Zettai Reido.

It's made by the same guy who did MAID.

[2xMachina]

I wish I was one of these men who needed a shave only once every 7 days. If I don't shave every day, it's pretty darn obvious.

Huh, I need to shave more often than once every week too. Doesn't stop me from shaving only once per week though.

[Daimbert]

I am horrified in that MAID is cited as the spiritual descendant of FATAL :smalleek:

Well, since MAID was originally Japanese, "spiritual descendant" doesn't really fit, so I prefer to think of it as a game that independently decided to make a game to fit a similar niche to FATAL. And probably by accident, too, since the only thing that's in it that you WOULDN'T necessarily expect from a Japanese game is the random character generation ... and even then, the idea that a player shouldn't get to decide the key aspects of their character is pretty common in JRPG video games.

[Daimbert]

Look up Zettai Reido.

It's made by the same guy who did MAID.

Okay, yeah.

Not all that surprising, though ...

[Weimann]

Look up Zettai Reido.

It's made by the same guy who did MAID.Oh my.

Well, only from the entry on 1d4chan, I can still say that I'd perfer Zettai Reido to FATAL.

[Bayar]

Oh my.

Well, only from the entry on 1d4chan, I can still say that I'd perfer Zettai Reido to FATAL.

Apparently, it only uses D6's. It might even be a better game, if you "like Devil Girls, Non-Human Girls, and Tentacles!!". Oh, and probably doesnt involve quadric equations to have sex...

[kamikasei]

I am horrified in that MAID is cited as the spiritual descendant of FATAL :smalleek:

By no means. It's just a game where chargen is almost entirely random. I wouldn't compare them on any other point.

[Yuki Akuma]

By no means. It's just a game where chargen is almost entirely random. I wouldn't compare them on any other point.

Well in both games there are rules for advancement that hinge on... intimacy.

[kamikasei]

Well in both games there are rules for advancement that hinge on... intimacy.

Yes, but you don't have to seduce five billion maids in order to gain one point of favour.

[Terraoblivion]

I'm not sure that anything you do in FATAL deserves the word intimacy. That invokes too many images of foreplay and candlelight and such.

[Sliver]

FATAL can have that! I'm sure players are encouraged to at least compliment their victims before they rip the princess to shreds, <do stuff>

Yet, I love the man.

"FATAL is a date-rape RPG"
"Where is the date?!"

[Yuki Akuma]

Sliver, most threads about FATAL get locked for a reason.

>.>

[OMG PONIES]

I'm just waiting for the heartbreaking hilarity of Dust's next write-up. Your poor soapmaker.

[Zeta Kai]

I've had a revelation. I have determined, though divine wisdom given to me from on high, that FATAL is either:

A) A brilliantly in-depth joke on the part of the author. He saw every bad thing in tabletop RPGs, & decided to distill them into one single uber-suck game, as a shining example of what NOT to do when making a game. It has needlessly-convoluted mechanics, vague rules, bad editing, author bias, contradictory actions, & tables upon sub-tables. It was never meant to be played, only to be reacted to, like a piece of performance art. It's the perfect nadir of quality, written as a joke & made so offensive that nobody could take it seriously. OR it's a ...

B) Joke that gamers play on each other, so as to poke fun at the genre & trick gullible noobs, sort of a gaming meme writ large. People talk about how awful it is, & wise old gamers warn, "Yeah, your hated system might suck, but as least it's not FATAL" like it's the bogeyman hiding under your gaming table. There is no game called FATAL; it's not real, it's just a prank that gamers play on each other when they wanna point out how a game could be worse by comparrison.

Either way, there lies madness.

[UglyPanda]

I wouldn't consider any existing game a spiritual successor to FATAL for the simple reason that most games are fun. The spiritual successor to FATAL would involve a hundred-sided body part die and a hammer. The only rule is that you smack yourself in the body part that the die indicates. And it would still be more fun than FATAL.

That said, I want to see someone talk about a different bad game at some point. There's a whole wide world of crap and nobody wants to look at it. Who's up for a game of SenZar, a game that is only kept in print due to masochism and bile fascination?

[Sliver]

The only rule is that you smack yourself in the body part that the die indicates.

Such a game sounds quite...

Fatal. I know the joke was already made...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I've had a revelation. I have determined, though divine wisdom given to me from on high, that FATAL is either:

A) A brilliantly in-depth joke on the part of the author. He saw every bad thing in tabletop RPGs, & decided to distill them into one single uber-suck game, as a shining example of what NOT to do when making a game. It has needlessly-convoluted mechanics, vague rules, bad editing, author bias, contradictory actions, & tables upon sub-tables. It was never meant to be played, only to be reacted to, like a piece of performance art. It's the perfect nadir of quality, written as a joke & made so offensive that nobody could take it seriously. OR it's a ...

B) Joke that gamers play on each other, so as to poke fun at the genre & trick gullible noobs, sort of a gaming meme writ large. People talk about how awful it is, & wise old gamers warn, "Yeah, your hated system might suck, but as least it's not FATAL" like it's the bogeyman hiding under your gaming table. There is no game called FATAL; it's not real, it's just a prank that gamers play on each other when they wanna point out how a game could be worse by comparrison.

Either way, there lies madness.
And regardless of which it is, there is one man who has become utterly convinced that FATAL is real and serious. He has truly fallen apart.

[AstralFire]

I agree with whoever said earlier that it is, honestly, easier to believe that FATAL is serious from someone who needs help rather than someone who is trolling. That level of trolling would be scary.

[2xMachina]

Such a game sounds quite...

Fatal. I know the joke was already made...

:smallcool:

YEAAAAH!!

[JohnnyCancer]

Just based on what I'm reading here, it's possible, if not likely, to have a party of four with no reasonable adventuring skills or equipment. Is the idea to play ordinary people who've decided to grab whatever they have laying around and go adventuring?

[Winterwind]

Just based on what I'm reading here, it's possible, if not likely, to have a party of four with no reasonable adventuring skills or equipment. Is the idea to play ordinary people who've decided to grab whatever they have laying around and go adventuring?Optimistically, yes.

Less optimistically, that's the idea as well, only now "go adventuring" becomes a euphemism for something... quite different. :smallyuk:



Regarding the earlier question for roleplaying systems with random character generation, Call of Cthulhu (the Chaosium version) has a pretty random character generation system, too. The player still decides who and what the character ultimately is, but s/he is encouraged to let the (utterly random) attribute rolls serve as inspiration there.
Oh, and the MechWarrior RPG has the player choose a carreer, but then make rolls for what happened in the character's life up till that point, which can impact who the character ends up as rather severely.

[JohnnyCancer]

So then FATAL is better suited towards campaigns where the party is a roving gang of petty criminals?

[The Cat Goddess]

In the original version of Traveller, not only were all stats random (and rolled in order), but once you chose an occupation you rolled to see how long your character stayed in service before "going independent" and becoming a PC. With enough "lucky" rolls (longer time in service means more/higher skills), your character could die of old age before becoming a PC. :smallbiggrin:

[Tengu_temp]

So then FATAL is better suited towards campaigns where the party is a roving gang of petty criminals?

If they're also obsessed with bad math.

[Sliver]

Doesn't beat the Neverending Dungeon's record, where one managed to create a stillborn by accident. Can that happen in FATAL or that Traveller?

[Winterwind]

Doesn't beat the Neverending Dungeon's record, where one managed to create a stillborn by accident. Can that happen in FATAL or that Traveller?Well, in FATAL, you can at least belong to a race where the children are frequently stillborn and then suddenly come to life after several years...

(I've read the famous MacLennan/Sartin review.)

[Tavar]

Doesn't beat the Neverending Dungeon's record, where one managed to create a stillborn by accident. Can that happen in FATAL or that Traveller?

Really? How did this happen?

[happyturtle]

Not in Traveller. You can die during character generation, but you'll at least be an adult.

The books contain an alternate method where if you fail a survival roll, you'll simply be medically discharged from your career, and begin your adventuring days at that point.

[Daimbert]

Regarding the earlier question for roleplaying systems with random character generation, Call of Cthulhu (the Chaosium version) has a pretty random character generation system, too. The player still decides who and what the character ultimately is, but s/he is encouraged to let the (utterly random) attribute rolls serve as inspiration there.
Oh, and the MechWarrior RPG has the player choose a carreer, but then make rolls for what happened in the character's life up till that point, which can impact who the character ends up as rather severely.

Thanks for all the suggestions -- which I may note down later -- but right now I'm pretty sold on MAID ... especially since I think it might be soloable (and I mean really soloable, meaning that it's just one person playing).

I'll get this out of the FATAL thread, though ...

[Jolly Steve]

I doubt anyone has ever played FATAL, including Byron Hall, if playing the game is defined as doing so without ignoring or changing major parts of the rules.

[Jolly Steve]

Cheesemaker. De-louser. Papermaker. Dicemaker. Vintner. Wench. He says he’s sick of rolling and wants to be a fighter, but then learns his low physical attributes prevent him from being anything more taxing than a Bookbinder.

So basically it's Warhammer Fantasy as written by autistic sex offenders?

[SolkaTruesilver]

So.. is the Campaign officially over? Are we ever going to get another post by the sadistic GM?

[Bayar]

I wouldn't consider any existing game a spiritual successor to FATAL for the simple reason that most games are fun. The spiritual successor to FATAL would involve a hundred-sided body part die and a hammer. The only rule is that you smack yourself in the body part that the die indicates. And it would still be more fun than FATAL.

That said, I want to see someone talk about a different bad game at some point. There's a whole wide world of crap and nobody wants to look at it. Who's up for a game of SenZar, a game that is only kept in print due to masochism and bile fascination?

Because SenZar is actually playable, and if it wasn't for 3rd edition coming out at around the same time (and the questionable decision to overhype the publicity by the SenZar authors) it might have been more used today.

And the only reason that FATAL comes up way more often on the interwebs is because it is found for free on the interwebs, as opposed to SenZar or The World of Synnibarr.

But if you want to read stupid stuff and waste your time, search for the TIMECUBE!!! RPG, Empire of Satanis, deadEarth, Wraeththu, Hybrid...I can go on.



Doesn't beat the Neverending Dungeon's record, where one managed to create a stillborn by accident. Can that happen in FATAL or that Traveller?

Did anyone in the Neverending Dungeon give birth to a clone from their genitals or conjure up Bugbears that "desire anal sex like there's no tomorrow" ?


So.. is the Campaign officially over? Are we ever going to get another post by the sadistic GM?

Want me to DM a game of FATAL ?

[Yuki Akuma]

Want me to DM a game of FATAL ?

Yes.

Do it. Do it nao.

[Grumman]

I find it amusing that you can fail to notice a minotaur "taking advantage" of you. Actually, no, that's just depressing.
"Dear Sir/Madam,

I am Joe McTaur, the rightful ruler of the island of Crete, and I require your assistance. I am being imprisoned against my will by the usurper-king, Theseus, who has stolen my kingdom and my vast treasury...."

[SolkaTruesilver]

Want me to DM a game of FATAL ?

Nah. I just wanted to know how the last games ended up.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I am extremely impressed by this thread:

(1) It describes a game of FATAL that not only got through character creation, but actually went on for two more sessions. Amazing!

(2) Dust has been able to describe a game of FATAL without triggering a Lock.

I cannot wait for more of this journal :smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

Yes.

Do it. Do it nao.

I would play this. Let's do a FATAL PbP.
For science!

[Volthawk]

I would play this. Let's do a FATAL PbP.
For science!

Agreed. Just to see how horrible it actually is. And for science!

[Tengu_temp]

http://amorphia-apparel.com/img450/scibot.gif

And you wish FATAL was even 1% as cool as this image.

[Volthawk]

http://amorphia-apparel.com/img450/scibot.gif

And you wish FATAL was even 1% as cool as this image.

Yes. Yes I do.

[Mystic Muse]

I would play this. Let's do a FATAL PbP.
For science!

Do it on another site. Doing it on here is just asking for trouble.

[senrath]

You can't do it here. Huge parts of the game are against the rules of this forum.

[Mystic Muse]

You can't do it here. Huge parts of the game are against the rules of this forum.

Which is why threads about it are generally locked. However, I notice a distinct lack of lockage on this one.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Which is why threads about it are generally locked. However, I notice a distinct lack of lockage on this one.
Because we're being super-careful.

I think that the character creation alone would be enough to get a FATAL pbp game locked here :smalleek:

[Yuki Akuma]

There's nothing overtly sexual or violent in the character creation. It's purely anatomical.

Badly anatomical.

[Dogmantra]

You can't do it here. Huge parts of the game are against the rules of this forum.

... Yeah.

I started reading the rulebook to see just how bad it was. I can't unsee it...

[Tengu_temp]

Link the recruitment thread when you start it on Mythweavers, Plothook or somewhere else. I'm sure a lot of people want to give it a try.

[Swordguy]

Link the recruitment thread when you start it on Mythweavers, Plothook or somewhere else. I'm sure a lot of people want to give it a try.

Jesus Christ, people.

Don't do it.

[Mystic Muse]

I agree with Swordguy here.

[Thelas]

I would agree with you two, but this might be a hilarious trainwreck to read.
So I'm going to refrain from commenting -- oh wait I just commented.

[Yuki Akuma]

Jesus Christ, people.

Don't do it.

Bile fascination, my friend.

I just spent three hours rolling up a character. It was fun, in a weird sort of way, although I did say "Jesus Christ why?!" a lot.

I got a middle-aged homosexual human gladiator, by the way.

[Yukitsu]

There's nothing overtly sexual or violent in the character creation. It's purely anatomical.

Badly anatomical.

You're telling me. My DM had us roll up that crap to tag to our standard D&D game for lols, and my 5-9, 120 pound elf paladin wound up with a 10.5 inch, 3 inch diameter extra leg between his legs. We joked that he had a "unique" way of redeeming female villains when he didn't pass out. Fracking variance of that damned system needs to be dropped down a whole wack load.

[Optimystik]

Link the recruitment thread when you start it on Mythweavers, Plothook or somewhere else. I'm sure a lot of people want to give it a try.

This. I'll click through.


I got a middle-aged homosexual human gladiator, by the way.

Pics pl0x

[Oracle_Hunter]

Y'see, I halfway thought about making a FATAL character myself, but then I read this thread. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7ixhxjqoe9swz1xv4bxgw5h0&page=1)

Rolling characters just sounds painful :smalleek:

[Mewtarthio]

Dust and his party have sacrificed their sanity so that we don't have to play FATAL, and now you people are planning to play FATAL? What's wrong with you people?! :smalleek:

[AstralFire]

I can't speak for the rest of you guys, but while this is a fun read, the novelty of how bad FATAL is wore off on me years ago. I don't think anything short of payment could convince me to roll up a character.

[Tengu_temp]

After some of the games I played, a 3 hour character creation process is nothing. Polish RPG scene is very weird.

[AstralFire]

After some of the games I played, a 3 hour character creation process is nothing. Polish RPG scene is very weird.

It's not the length that dissuades me - I spend a minimum of that making a new character in the current systems I play, just as an artifact of being thoughtful. It's just... like... I don't have enough enjoyment out of tacky kitsch to make that fun rather than painful.

[Maerok]

I almost spend that much time on DnD equipment selection without any of the fancy Compendiums. :smalleek:

[Bayar]

Well, we might be able to play it here too, if we scrap all that sexual content, but that wouldn't be FATAL no more now would it ?

So I'll see if I can make a game thread on MW.

[Eldan]

I knew a player who would spend his skill points in 3.5 that way when he made a level five character.

"Now, my next skill point... perhaps one more in jump? Or better in climb?... Give me a few minutes to think about it..."

And yes, he took a minute or two for every single point.

[Weimann]

Frankly, 3 hours is a rather average time investment for a character of mine, at elast if you also factor in putting the major parts of the background and personality down, given a decently involved system, of course.

[Oracle_Hunter]

It's not that the mechanics of character creation are long or offensive - the system is just borked.

You can end up with negative stats; you can roll later stats that affect previously rolled stats that, in turn, affect other subsequently rolled stats; you can spend hours reconciling modifiers on a given stat only to realize it has no in-game impact at all! Worse, it's all random - it's not like you're trying to hash out your character's backstory or motivations for adventuring; you are literally spending those three hours rolling dice and paging through tables.

It's torturous!

[Yuki Akuma]

Aging effects on stats is presented after you're likely to have already worked everything out, so you have to go back and recalculate your derived values.

Bitter? Me?

However I do find it oddly fun. Maybe I'm just a masochist.

[Bayar]

Want me to DM a game of FATAL ?

On second thought, **** that. Got better things to do than playing Maim Master (FATAL's DM, before they changed it to be more historically accurate, if the Roman empire was in medieval times).

[Yuki Akuma]

I am both relieved and disappointed.

Edit: Why is there a delousing skill?!

[Bayar]

I am both relieved and disappointed.

Edit: Why is there a delousing skill?!

So that a person can play a delouser. Like, the actuall class occupation. Oh, and remember, it is female only. And you get 5 AP for every person you delouse. That is only 200 people for level 2. Do that and pick another career like Bandit (although it says that female bandits are uncommon...better not delve deeper into Hall's mysoginy, not on this forum anyway) and get 1 AP for every silver piece or equivalent stolen and AP equal to half damage inflicted while ambushing things.

[Blackfang108]

Dust and his party have sacrificed their sanity so that we don't have to play FATAL, and now you people are planning to play FATAL? What's wrong with you people?! :smalleek:

Speaking as someone willing to play FATAL: A Lot. :smallbiggrin:

[Oracle_Hunter]

So that a person can play a delouser. Like, the actuall class occupation. Oh, and remember, it is female only. And you get 5 AP for every person you delouse. That is only 200 people for level 2. Do that and pick another career like Bandit (although it says that female bandits are uncommon...better not delve deeper into Hall's mysoginy, not on this forum anyway) and get 1 AP for every silver piece or equivalent stolen and AP equal to half damage inflicted while ambushing things.
Wait a sec.

I thought all of the Female Only occupations were just what they were calling "it" then (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle7dma8aj8) :smalltongue:

[YPU]

You know, from what I hear the character generation is completely random yes? Then isn't there probably some character generator out there? (I'll be darned if I am the first to look tough, who knows what might happen)

It COULD be fun to see what sorts of things can roll out of such an infernal device, without the need to actually read FATAL itself.

[Volthawk]

You know, from what I hear the character generation is completely random yes? Then isn't there probably some character generator out there? (I'll be darned if I am the first to look tough, who knows what might happen)

It COULD be fun to see what sorts of things can roll out of such an infernal device, without the need to actually read FATAL itself.

Turns out it exists. (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1XUCNWFR)

[YPU]

So who is brave enough to try it first, and censor his results until they can be posted here?

[Volthawk]

So who is brave enough to try it first, and censor his results until they can be posted here?

That sounds like a challenge. I'll do it.

[Salbazier]

Turns out it exists. (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1XUCNWFR)

!!!

Uh, god. That's why they said to be careful with your wishes.:smallfrown:

[Yuki Akuma]

Here's what I got.

---------------------------F.A.T.A.L. Character------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 2000-2003 Fatal Games. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------General Character Information------------------------------
Character Name: Pak Gender: M Race: Kobold
Player Name: Occupation: Age Category: Middle Age
Homeland: Level: Religion:
Height: 52 Weight: 81 Siblings: 4 Social Class: Slave
Age: 22 Max Age: 80 Eyes: Brown Skin Color: Silvery White
Marital Status: Single Birth Rank: 3rd
Birth Status: Bastard Hair Color: Auburn w/ some gray Hair Type: Thick, wavy
Hair Length: 15 Vision: Perfect natural vision
Facial Feature: Big nostrils
Perceived as a waster of money, generous
Birthplace: Village Birthday:9/8/5078
Most Attactive Feature: Hair Most Repulsive Feature: Buttocks
Appearance:
Notes:

----------------------------Character Abilities-------------------------------------
Sub-ability Score Mods
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
PHYSIQUE: 67 -17
Physical Fitness: 75 -13 Sprint: 38
Strength: 59 -25 Damage: -25% C&J: 32 Bench: 64 DL: 96
Bodily Attractiveness: 38 -38
Health: 98 0 Int/Vom: +0% All: 0 Ill. Imm.: 57

CHARISMA: 98 0
Facial: 103 3 Description: Plain
Vocal: 76 -13 Description: Normal
Kinetic: 118 9 Description: Ordinary
Rhetoric: 96 -3 Avg. Speech: 145 or 195 (50%)

DEXTERITY: 112 6
Hand-Eye Coordination: 96 -3 Finger Prec: 1/16 inch
Agility: 108 3 CA Bonus: 1 Brawl: 2 Stand: 3
Reaction Speed: 124 12 Deep Sleep Recov: 2
Enunciation: 123 12 Max Speech: 240 Casting: -8%

INTELLIGENCE: 109 6
Language: 108 3 #: 3 Vocab: Undismayed
Math: 126 12 Highest Math: Geometry
Analytical: 102 0
Spatial: 102 0 Unfamiliar Object Assembly: 200

WISDOM: 95 -3
Drive: 104 3 Hours Resting: 16
Intuition: 90 -6
Common Sense: 90 -6 Likely to: -
Reflection: 98 0 Earliest memory at: Age 3


Life Points: 11 Unconscious: 2 CA: 11

Piety Points: 4 Magic Points:

Breadth: 26 BMI: 21.1187 BMI Status: Overweight

-------------------------------------Disposition------------------------------------
Ethicality: 2 Morality: 12
You are: Unethical Immoral w/Neutral tendencies

-------------------------------------Temperament------------------------------------
Sanguine: 54 Choleric: 100 Melancholic: 27 Phlegmatic: 94
Primary Temperament: Choleric Secondary Temperament: Phlegmatic

-------------------------------------Starting Funds---------------------------------
Silver Pieces: 4

------------------------------------Mental Illnesses--------------------------------
None

--------------------------------------Allergies-------------------------------------
None

------------------------------------Rare Features-----------------------------------
Handedness: Right-handed
Foot Size: 11
Head Cicumference: 21.67



Annoyingly, it doesn't randomly generate occupation or skill points for you.

[Bayar]

That is because you have to have certain stats and skills to be a certain class. Like 1st edition, only more so.

[Tengu_temp]

A butt-ugly lecherous gnome? Typical FATAL character!

[Optimystik]

Manhood length might be pushing the envelope a bit.

EDIT: Yeah, I definitely think we should leave out the sexual attributes.

[Flickerdart]

So he's a generous but immoral Kobold with luscious locks of hair?

[SaintRidley]

I give you the character I rolled with it:


------------------------General Character Information------------------------------
Character Name: Lauana Gender: F Race: Kobold
Player Name: Occupation: Age Category: Middle Age
Homeland: Level: Religion:
Height: 46 Weight: 68 Siblings: 2 Social Class: Slave
Age: 21 Max Age: 80 Eyes: Brown Skin Color: Silvery White
Marital Status: Happily Married Birth Rank: 2nd
Birth Status: Legitimate Hair Color: Auburn w/ some gray Hair Type: Thick, wavy
Hair Length: 15 Vision: Perfect natural vision
Facial Feature: Mole above mouth
Perceived as financially stable
Birthplace: Capital City Birthday:4/21/5079
Most Attactive Feature: Hair Most Repulsive Feature: Chest
Appearance:
Notes:

----------------------------Character Abilities-------------------------------------
Sub-ability Score Mods
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
PHYSIQUE: 65 -21
Physical Fitness: 90 -6 Sprint: 30
Strength: 27 -50 Damage: -50% C&J: 14 Bench: 29 DL: 43
Bodily Attractiveness: 41 -38
Health: 105 3 Int/Vom: -3% All: 0 Ill. Imm.: 58%

CHARISMA: 116 9
Facial: 108 3 Description: Plain
Vocal: 112 6 Description: Normal
Kinetic: 108 3 Description: Ordinary
Rhetoric: 136 17 Avg. Speech: 165 to 175 (50%)

DEXTERITY: 113 6
Hand-Eye Coordination: 118 9 Finger Prec: 1/32 inch
Agility: 114 6 CA Bonus: 2 Brawl: 2 Stand: 3
Reaction Speed: 90 -6 Deep Sleep Recov: 2
Enunciation: 130 14 Max Speech: 250 Casting: -10%

INTELLIGENCE: 123 12
Language: 88 -6 #: 2 Vocab: Experimental
Math: 120 9 Highest Math: Geometry
Analytical: 122 12
Spatial: 165 30 Unfamiliar Object Assembly: 3000

WISDOM: 92 -3
Drive: 77 -13 Hours Resting: 18
Intuition: 123 12
Common Sense: 82 -10 Likely to: -
Reflection: 88 -6 Earliest memory at: Age 3


Life Points: 9 Unconscious: 1 CA: 12

Piety Points: 27 Magic Points:

Breadth: 23 BMI: 22.656 BMI Status: Overweight

-------------------------------------Disposition------------------------------------
Ethicality: 2 Morality: 1
You are: Unethical Immoral

-------------------------------------Temperament------------------------------------
Sanguine: 56 Choleric: 43 Melancholic: 27 Phlegmatic: 100
Primary Temperament: Phlegmatic Secondary Temperament: Sanguine

-------------------------------------Starting Funds---------------------------------
Silver Pieces: 3

------------------------------------Mental Illnesses--------------------------------
None

--------------------------------------Allergies-------------------------------------
None

------------------------------------Rare Features-----------------------------------
Handedness: Right-handed
Foot Size: 10
Head Cicumference: 23.4064



You don't need to know anything about her womanhood.

[Worira]

Cut out the sexual features section, guys. This should be fairly obvious.

[Zeta Kai]

Cut out the sexual features section, guys. This should be fairly obvious.

But that's half the fun squick. :smallwink:

Seriously though, why was I compelled to download the CharGen tool? Why? I knew I shouldn't, but I did it anyway. Ugh! :smalleek::smallredface:

[warmachine]

What's the difference between vocal and rhetoric charisma?

[Greenish]

What's the difference between vocal and rhetoric charisma?The other determines wether your voice is "gay" or not, the other how fast you can speak.

[The Glyphstone]

I give you the character I rolled with it:
You don't need to know anything about her womanhood.

Considering her most repulsive feature, that's probably for the best.:smallbiggrin::smallcool:

[Bharg]

Most attractive feature: Face Most repulsive feature: Eyes... awesome!

[Dogmantra]

EDIT: Yeah, I definitely think we should leave out the sexual attributes.

Okay, so I did this here is my character sheet without all that stuff:

Name: Killertron

[Yuki Akuma]

Sexual attributes? I see no sexual attributes.

>.>

My bad.


What's the difference between vocal and rhetoric charisma?

Vocal Charisma: how pretty you speak
Rhetoric charisma: how well/fast you speak.

[YPU]

Vocal Charisma: how pretty you speak
Rhetoric charisma: how well/fast you speak.

Ie. I can listen to her pretty voice for hour's, good thing to cause her words don't make sense at all.

Also, I'm not sure what's worse, that I think of a character generator, that somebody searched for it or that people downloaded and used it.

I think the last part.

Also, I pity some of these characters, finding underwear would probably be very difficult for them.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Also, I pity some of these characters, finding underwear would probably be very difficult for them.
Judging by the "racial portraits" section, I don't think FATAL characters actually wear clothing.

[tonberrian]

Ah, FATAL character creation.
---------------------------F.A.T.A.L. Character------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 2000-2003 Fatal Games. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------General Character Information------------------------------
Character Name: Osoryd Gender: F Race: Light Elf
Player Name: Occupation: Age Category: Puberty
Homeland: Level: Religion:
Height: 7 Weight: 1 Siblings: 3 Social Class: Serf
Age: 0 Max Age: 250 Eyes: Blue Skin Color: Deathly Pale
Marital Status: Single Birth Rank: 3rd
Birth Status: Legitimate Hair Color: White Hair Type: Medium thickness, wavy
Hair Length: 2 Vision: Perfect natural vision
Facial Feature: Ears below eyebrows
Perceived as having a low mental capacity
Birthplace: City Birthday:3/10/5100
Most Attactive Feature: Chest Most Repulsive Feature: Face
Appearance:
Notes:

----------------------------Character Abilities-------------------------------------
Sub-ability Score Mods
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
PHYSIQUE: 113 6
Physical Fitness: 76 -13 Sprint: 18
Strength: 20 -56 Damage: -56% C&J: 11 Bench: 22 DL: 39
Bodily Attractiveness: 250 59
Health: 109 6 Int/Vom: -6% All: 0 Ill. Imm.: 60%

CHARISMA: 95 -3
Facial: 85 -6 Description: Plain
Vocal: 103 3 Description: Normal
Kinetic: 98 0 Description: Ordinary
Rhetoric: 96 -3 Avg. Speech: 145 or 195 (50%)

DEXTERITY: 91 -3
Hand-Eye Coordination: 102 0 Finger Prec: 1/16 inch
Agility: 80 -10 CA Bonus: -3 Brawl: 2 Stand: 3
Reaction Speed: 90 -6 Deep Sleep Recov: 2
Enunciation: 92 -3 Max Speech: 190 Casting: +10%

INTELLIGENCE: 87 -6
Language: 111 6 #: 3 Vocab: Beguile
Math: 80 -10 Highest Math: Fractions
Analytical: 53 -29
Spatial: 104 3 Unfamiliar Object Assembly: 250

WISDOM: 78 -13
Drive: 76 -13 Hours Resting: 18
Intuition: 60 -25
Common Sense: 97 0 Likely to: -
Reflection: 82 -10 Earliest memory at: Age 4


Life Points: 9 Unconscious: 1 CA: 7

Piety Points: 24 Magic Points:

Breadth: 3 BMI: 14.3878 BMI Status: Underweight

-------------------------------------Disposition------------------------------------
Ethicality: 89 Morality: 63
You are: Ethical w/Neutral tendencies Neutral

-------------------------------------Temperament------------------------------------
Sanguine: 41 Choleric: 43 Melancholic: 10 Phlegmatic: 12
Primary Temperament: Choleric Secondary Temperament: Sanguine

-------------------------------------Starting Funds---------------------------------
Silver Pieces: 5

------------------------------------Mental Illnesses--------------------------------
None

--------------------------------------Allergies-------------------------------------
None

------------------------------------Rare Features-----------------------------------
Handedness: Right-handed
Foot Size: 1
Head Cicumference: 12.5875

Why does her head take up roughly half her height?

[Yuki Akuma]

Because she's zero. Babies are like that.

And that is one attractive baby. 250 BA?!

And her earliest memory is four years into the future.