Stats Determined Through Real-life Testing

[Brett Wong]

So me and my friends have decided we want to play a campaign where our real-life selves have been transported/plane shifted in to the D&D universe not quite sure on the setting yet but yeah, we want to determine our real-life stats. We would like your input on how to determine our stats.
Some ideas we've already had were;

Strength: Max Dead lift, for max overhead carry capacity.

Dexterity: Reflex Test, The thing where the lights light up in random order and you have to touch them.

Constitution: Not sure about this one, maybe distance running?

Intelligence: Standardized IQ test drop the last digit

Wisdom: This one is hard and I'm not sure how to determine it.

Charisma: This one is also not the easiest thing to determine because it's not just based on looks; after looking at it, it seemed like a very multi-faceted stat that would be hard to gauge.

The premise of the story is we'll be starting as level 1 commoners and then after our first few encounters or when we get into a town we will have a time skip 1 year foreword. After this time skip we will have all had enough time to become 1st level PC classes (we're playing Pathfinder) Our long term goal is to get home. We are playing us and our classes reflect that.

[Seatbelt]

I'd say for those you'd have to go with eyeballing it. Collective vote maybe? For example I'd fail a distance run hardcore. But I almost never get sick. Both of those are tied to constitution. I'd likely have a low con but a bonus to fortitude saves or something. Mid-low int. 12 ish. Maybe 14 when I apply myself. But I'm fairly charismatic. But I'm also introverted. So how does that translate to charisma?


Also expect it to be somewhat high powered because nobody wants to admit they have less than 10 in something.

Edit, actually Con should be how well you could take a punch. All the other things can be modified by saving throws. But a dwarf wizard should have more HP than an elf wizard every time. So start punching each other. Highest con is the last person to drop, and then you go down in steps from there. :P

[Anxe]

You've got the best method for measuring strength there, I'd agree.

I like the idea of measuring dexterity by dropping a dollar bill between someone's hands and seeing how many times the catch it out of 18. That becomes their dex score.

Con could be distance running, or how many pushups you can do before stopping, or how many crunches you can do in a minute, or how often you get sick in a year, or your weight. Remember that your Con score is likely to be healthier than the average Con in the expected setting of D&D. Just a reminder that your Con should be above 11.

Yes, I would do Int as a direct relationship to IQ.

Wisdom is difficult, I agree. You can ask yourself how wise you think you and your other group members are on a scale of 1-10. 1 would be Dennis the Menace and 10 would be Gandalf. Can't give better advice here.

Charisma is easier than Wisdom because you can see actual evidence of this in a five minute conversation with somebody. How friendly are they? Do other people like them? It may take some uncomfortable honesty with your friends though.

[Heliomance]

Int=IQ/10 doesn't work at all. Try Int=(IQ-50)/5, the statistical distributions are much closer.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

So me and my friends have decided we want to play a campaign where our real-life selves have been transported/plane shifted in to the D&D universe not quite sure on the setting yet but yeah, we want to determine our real-life stats. We would like your input on how to determine our stats.
Some ideas we've already had were;

Strength: Max Dead lift, for max overhead carry capacity.
Exactly - easy to replicate.

Dexterity: Reflex Test, The thing where the lights light up in random order and you have to touch them.
This will only rank the people who take the test. What you need is a balance pole (just a foot off the ground) which you let people try to walk along - then count the number of failures out of 100 tries, and compare it to the DC.

Constitution: Not sure about this one, maybe distance running?Hold your breath, time it, and divide by six.
Or everyone run for as long as they can before feeling that they are "pushing themselves" - time it and divide by six.
Or do both, and take the average.

Intelligence: Standardized IQ test drop the last digitFair enough - although IQ tests generally only test how good you are at IQ tests. :smallwink:
How many languages do you speak? That's your INT adjustment. Work backwards from that.

Wisdom: This one is hard and I'm not sure how to determine it.Use a spot and listen test. Allow people to use whatever aids they usually use (spectacles, hearing aid), and bring a sound generating thing closer to them, until they hear it. Compare the sound it makes to the Listen DC, and compare the distance they heard it at to the penalty for distance.
Do the same with a visual cue.

Charisma: This one is also not the easiest thing to determine because it's not just based on looks; after looking at it, it seemed like a very multi-faceted stat that would be hard to gauge.How many followers do you have? :smallwink:

Yes, this is the hardest to figure out. Safest to just assign everyone a 10, and let it be. You could really hurt someone's feelings if you scored them lower than they thought for themselves.

The premise of the story is we'll be starting as level 1 commoners and then after our first few encounters or when we get into a town we will have a time skip 1 year foreword. After this time skip we will have all had enough time to become 1st level PC classes (we're playing Pathfinder) Our long term goal is to get home. We are playing us and our classes reflect that.

Sounds like a good laugh. I assume you've seen this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_%28TV_series%29)

Whatever you do, don't let it be like that.

[Anxe]

Int=IQ/10 doesn't work at all. Try Int=(IQ-50)/5, the statistical distributions are much closer.

IQ/10 gives me 16 INT. (IQ-50)/5 gives me 22 INT. You sure that's the right formula?

And I think Altair's way of determining Dex, Con, and Int are all good and dandy.

[Brett Wong]

The thing about spot/listen and the pole ect, they are all skills and the people I know (one in particular) may argue that it's not stats we just have skill ranks in spot/listen/balance ect.

[Anxe]

True, balance only works if you're dealing with people who don't regularly get on balance beams or dance or something like that, but I'm sure you can find a similar skill you could try. Maybe tumble for forward rolls?

[Heliomance]

IQ/10 gives me 16 INT. (IQ-50)/5 gives me 22 INT. You sure that's the right formula?

And I think Altair's way of determining Dex, Con, and Int are all good and dandy.

If you really have 160 IQ, you're a hell of a lot higher than 16 INT. 140 IQ is the boundary for genius, 99.9% of people have less than 140 IQ. The odds of rolling 16 INT are a hell of a loot higher than 0.1%.

In other news, I'm sceptical of your claim to 160 IQ.

[Brett Wong]

Also for constitution, I tried holding my breath for as long as I could and I got 55 seconds. That gives me like a 9, I also get sick quite often. But I'm a marathon runner. Is my Con truly 9 and I just have some sort of feat that let's me run a long time (endurance?)

[Milskidasith]

IQ/10 gives me 16 INT. (IQ-50)/5 gives me 22 INT. You sure that's the right formula?

And I think Altair's way of determining Dex, Con, and Int are all good and dandy.

A stab in the dark here, but did you take one of those free online IQ tests? I've taken those and gotten anywhere from 120 and 130 (where I feel I'm realistically at, not having taken a real IQ test except for a nonscored test our school district uses to determine if you go into "gifted" classes), all the way up to being able to repeatedly score 160-180, which is absolutely absurd.

If you really have an IQ of 160... well, congrats, but I'm skeptical when someone brings up such phenomenal scores.

[DragoonWraith]

Using IQ is a bad idea. IQ is basically inaccurate for values above about 80 - it's pretty good at figuring out who is mentally challenged, but utterly useless for actually telling how smart those who are not are.

[TheThan]

Charisma is easy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152330)

Unfortunately the thread has been locked. But feel free to read and enjoy. (no its not serious).

[Thieves]

IQ is bad all the way down. I mean, according to IQ tests I'd be down there with pot plants, but I'm creative and can create a Tom-and-Jerry Acme Death Machine faster than you can say "Anvil".

If these people have some distance towards themselves - which is one of the most important features of character for me - just sit down with them and measure it up. Compare it to normal people. I do it all the time. Doesn't make me more popular, but when someone gets an 8 WIS, 9 CON and 10 CHA it may nudge him towards thinking about himself.

Also, since you're starting as commoners, scores around 10 will be understandable, and you'll get to use your heads. If you need proper PC power level - divide the roles, give the best guy a 16 and then work it down.

Also, be wary of evaluating Charisma. I may be the smooth-talker, but a guy I know is so disarmingly oblivious to the world around him that when coupled with his cracked ways of reacting to what he does see he is such a peculiar figure that even a gelatinous cube would go "WTF?" seeing him act. People wouldn't beat him up cause they would be just too confused to. It's a phenomenon of nature. That's a solid 18 Charisma.

If, however, you do not think they have the distance to do it subjectively, you could try using a -1 logic, like e.g. in Catch 22. Use their weaknesses to their advantage. Not always applicable, but as per above: someone socially inept could be called eye-catching because of his bizarreness (use some better word), someone introvertic - intriguingly secretive, with a lurking powersonality*, someone not aware of their surroundings - sensei-wise and detached (WIS taken not as senses but as common sense, gods bless unspecific definitions!). Even CON could be swapped, as in this example with getting sick vs. running distances. It's not always very easy to come up with explanations such as these, but... there's got to be some trial for you to earn that 16 INT :smallbiggrin:

* I hereby copyright this word if it has not been done so yet.

[Anxe]

A stab in the dark here, but did you take one of those free online IQ tests? I've taken those and gotten anywhere from 120 and 130 (where I feel I'm realistically at, not having taken a real IQ test except for a nonscored test our school district uses to determine if you go into "gifted" classes), all the way up to being able to repeatedly score 160-180, which is absolutely absurd.

If you really have an IQ of 160... well, congrats, but I'm skeptical when someone brings up such phenomenal scores.

I got a 160 on an online test and a paper test for a volunteer psych experiment. Is there another way I should be measuring it?


powersonality*

* I hereby copyright this word if it has not been done so yet.

I have good news for you. It's not.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I got a 160 on an online test and a paper test for a volunteer psych experiment. Is there another way I should be measuring it?

Yeah, taking the test you pay for administered by trained officials. :smallamused:

Of course, there's tons of different types of IQ tests, and a 160 on one may be genius while it could be a rock on another (exaggeration for making a point). Also, IQ sucks anyway, so yeah.

[Milskidasith]

I got a 160 on an online test and a paper test for a volunteer psych experiment. Is there another way I should be measuring it?

An online test is likely to be inaccurate. The psych experiment test could be more accurate, but I have no way of being sure; a normal IQ test, from what I've heard, takes a few hours. The best way to get a standardized test would probably be to try out for an high IQ society like Mensa, but I'm really not sure on where to get an official test, only that I know online tests are incredibly unlikely to be accurate.

[Anxe]

The PHB list Int a being how well a character learns and reasons. I think IQ is one of the best ways of measuring reasoning, but not the other half, learning.

If anybody has a better idea for how to measure someone's reasoning ability I'd like to hear it.

[Thieves]

I got a 160 on an online test and a paper test for a volunteer psych experiment. Is there another way I should be measuring it?

Try to think up many real life situations where you need a plan. Try to solve them. It's not standardized, okay, but should give you a much better idea of yourself than knowing which colored figure goes in next (god I hate those!).

Well, now, actually the question is what is "it". If you mean IQ, go with tests, maybe some more institutionalized ones (have a hit at Mensa or what). If you mean Intellect... there's only Too Much or Too Little. And that's determined by the people you hang out with / need to deal with, and is by no means an arbitrary value :smallwink:



I have good news for you. It's not.

First original, non-transferred property for Thieves :smallbiggrin: There's one result in Google, but that's a typo of normal "personality".

[CockroachTeaParty]

For Charisma:

Maybe play multiple rounds of poker/bullsh*t/Shadows over Camelot/etc., games reliant on the ability to deceive. If somebody's better at Bluffing, they might have a higher Charisma.

Maybe walk into a random store or something and try to persuade the shmuk behind the counter to give you a discount? Or try to get a date with random strangers? (Diplomacy?)

Hmm... again, the issue of ranks rears its ugly head... Singing, dancing, playing musical instruments (Perform)... Maybe force someone to play Dwarf Fortress with no instructions, and see how far they get? Or solve a rubik's cube? (UMD?)

[Temotei]

bullsh*t

Boy scout? :smallamused:

[Milskidasith]

For Charisma:

Maybe play multiple rounds of poker/bullsh*t/Shadows over Camelot/etc., games reliant on the ability to deceive. If somebody's better at Bluffing, they might have a higher Charisma.

Actually, BS isn't so much about charisma as it is about counting cards... if you're absurdly good, you can know everybodies hands after the first few rounds, unless people do the weird strategy of playing hands they have, but with the wrong cards, and even that is only useful for them if they figure out when they're going to have to play certain cards.

[Morithias]

Int=IQ/10 doesn't work at all. Try Int=(IQ-50)/5, the statistical distributions are much closer.

Int Score * 10 = IQ is WOTC Canon.

If that Int = (IQ-50)/5 was used, I would've had an Int of 19.6 at the age of 7. (IQ 148 according to Ontario IEP)

[Excession]

Also for constitution, I tried holding my breath for as long as I could and I got 55 seconds. That gives me like a 9, I also get sick quite often. But I'm a marathon runner. Is my Con truly 9 and I just have some sort of feat that let's me run a long time (endurance?)

I just got 1:20 without trying too hard, and I'm not fit. Your resting heart rate should be way lower than mine, which ought to help you. Do you have Asthma or anything like that? I wonder if altitude makes a difference via atmospheric pressure or something, I'm only just above sea level here.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Actually, BS isn't so much about charisma as it is about counting cards... if you're absurdly good, you can know everybodies hands after the first few rounds, unless people do the weird strategy of playing hands they have, but with the wrong cards, and even that is only useful for them if they figure out when they're going to have to play certain cards.

Maybe the ability to count cards is INT-based? Memorization is tied to INT, yes?

Gambling is tied to CHA if I'm not mistaken. Play craps!

Actually, none of these sound like very good tests.

[Tankadin]

The stats geek in me (he's rather small and malnourished) tends to think of standard distributions...that is to say, bell curves. The vast majority of people are going to be in that 8-12 range with a whole lot of 10s. I mean, that's why those are the average stats. The real question is where do you draw the line on the extremes. Does a 1 year old have a strength of 1? Does Stephen Hawking have an intelligence of 18? Does an Olympic gold medalist weight lifter have a strength of 18? Or are these outliers farther away from that center of 10? I think we should keep that in mind when devising our metrics.

I mean, I'm sure we'd all like to think we have above average stats, but...if an 18 in any category represents the pinnacle of what humans can do, well...we'd do well to remember that those titans from the deep end of the gene pool are statistical outliers. A 13 or 14 is still pretty damn good and pretty uncommon.

[CockroachTeaParty]

*A bunch of truth.*

So much truth.

[Gnosko]

I would suggest instead of determining your stats based on real life, you get together with your buddies and discuss who is most like wich character classes and then use whatever method of stat generation you all or your DM agrees on. One guy is very religous/spiritual = cleric. one of you is an avid outdoorsman maybe he's the ranger or druid. One of you is booksmart, wizard. And so on...

[Anxe]

Or solve a rubik's cube? (UMD?)

I love you. <3

[Temotei]

I just held my breath for ninety seconds. That sucked.

Anyway, that would give me 15 Constitution. I doubt I have 15 Constitution right now. Seriously.

You know, I can't really think correctly right now. I'm typing all wonky and I almost turned to a calculator to figure out 90/6. Ridiculous how much we need oxygen.

And...I'm recovered. I'm going to try and hold my breath again. This is two minutes after.

Huh. Ninety-four seconds. Almost a 16 in Constitution. Anyway, I'd think that would be inaccurate, just like IQ is in measuring Intelligence.

[Anxe]

We're forgetting the part of holding one's breath where you have to start make constitution checks. You could hold your breath longer if you made those checks.

[randomhero00]

Most of those are bad tests because a couple of practice runs will make a huge difference. The other reason they're bad, is say strength, for instance, can move up a lot quicker than intelligence from practice. So say your starting strength in game is only 10, but but the end of it it is easily 14. But other stats went up as well. So if you go that route you need a more realistic approach to increasing your stats on level ups.

I'd say pick your own best stat and worst stat, and then have the group vote on the same. Have your two highest stats be a 15 and a 14. Two lowest 8 and a 10. And go from there. Cause the system really wasn't built for any real scrutiny.

[DragoonWraith]

IQ is bad all the way down. I mean, according to IQ tests I'd be down there with pot plants, but I'm creative and can create a Tom-and-Jerry Acme Death Machine faster than you can say "Anvil".
Honestly, I don't disagree. What I meant was even the experts who advocate IQ tests suggest they only be taken seriously for scores of about 80 or less.


I think IQ is one of the best ways of measuring reasoning, but not the other half, learning.
As far as I know, IQ tests are good at measuring one thing, and one thing only: Intelligence Quotient, an arbitrary number dictated by your score on the test that has only marginal correlation, if even that, with anything else.

[WorstDMEver]

The strength stat is very easy - the tables are clear. Don't hurt yourselves doing that dead lift....

Constitution is a very generic stat in that it encompasses endurance, general toughness, your ability to hold your breath and a few other things. You'll probably have to set up a "decathalon" of events by looking at what skills are con-based and average your results.

Dexterity is both manual dexterity and general agility. I'd say try running the tires, walk a balance beam, try hand-stands (though this is strengh related, too), along with your typing speed (manual dexterity, folks).

The mental stats are an issue, but as mentioned earlier WotC has a formula for intelligence, so you're off the hook there. My advice is to take 4 or 6 IQ tests and average your results - research has shown that a single test score is insufficient because your scores can vary widely depending on your physical and mental condition at the time that you take it.

Wisdom, well, how often do you push the pull door? How often are you asked "Where's your common sense?" The higher the incidence of these things, the lower your wisdom....

I like the idea of peer-judging for charisma. Mine would probably be about 9 - I'm ornery, irrascable, obnoxious and blunt. And I'd be closer to Lawful Good than Neutral Good, but it's a near thing (willing to bend the rules on occasion, but it's rare) and some days I think I slip down the good slide a bit, too (I'm vengeful, and cruel in my vengeful streak).

[Temotei]

103 seconds. I thought I was going to faint. That was thirty seconds after the last test. I can't physically hold it longer than that now.

Ouch. Anyway, that gets me a 17. Woot. :smallamused:

By the way, I'm a runner. I run cross country, although I haven't run for a few months, sadly. Too busy. That might make a slight difference in my ability to make Constitution checks or my ability to withstand pain/uncomfortable feelings.

[Harperfan7]

With the exception of strength, ability scores are too complicated to test in real life.

If you want a really exact strength score, do weight machines only. These don't require any kind of balance or technique.

Every other ability can be warped by skills, hd (size and number of), feats, flaws, traits, saves, and so on. You just can't do it.

Just give everybody average array for the first part of the game (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) and elite stats (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) for the after 1 year part. Let them put them where they want. Time will show who really values what.

[WorstDMEver]

I'm gonna agree with Harper - besides, who wants to be completely accurate when being magically transported to a fantasy realm? You can assume that any improvements were magical, too....

[Heliomance]

Int Score * 10 = IQ is WOTC Canon.


[citation needed]

[Hiest, monkey]

IQ is not the best way of determining mental ability: however, in D&D Int. traditionally has the same attributes as an ideally calculated IQ, while Wis. and Cha. determine awareness/ability to apply knowledge, and creativity respectively. A very smart person has fairly good scores across the board. A creative artist typically has an extra high Cha when it comes to creative process, a Mathematician has an extra high Int. and a good teacher has an extra high Wis.

I understand that my previous statement is a dangerous generalization, so please try to bear with the spirit of what I am saying, that is: what we call Intelligence, is in reality a combination of parts of Wis. Cha. and Int.

In real life stats are hard to judge, because specific people have such strange and unique personal circumstance bonuses and penalties.

[Bharg]

Likely those stats will be pretty generic if your group doesn't consist of athletes and scientists...

[Vaynor]

Likely those stats will be pretty generic if your group doesn't consist of athletes and scientists...

I'd say just use the non-elite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) and assign them based on what you think your highest ability score would be, then second highest, and so on.

[Rixx]

I'd say a good way to do it would be to anonymously write down what you think the stats are for every other member in the party are, and give the results to a neutral third party, who averages them all together.

Also, make sure everyone's on the same page as to what constitutes a high stat - 14 intelligence may be high to some, but low to others. Perhaps making use of point-buy or an array might be good.

[Reluctance]

First problem: Real-life people can have crappy stats that are totally at odds with being an adventurer. In fact, considering the how few people actually put themselves at risk on a regular basis, it's likely that your friends would quickly become lunch for the first monster they met.

Second problem: D&D models real-world growth horribly. Hit the gym weekly, join an improv comedy group, or do something that regularly exercises one of your capabilities. You'll improve way faster than the 1/4 levels rate from 3.x

Your best bet is to probably combine the two with a prelude system and a standard array. Your initial entry to D&Dland should be dealt with entirely through RP and a generous appraisal of your friends. (Nobody wants to be told "I'm sorry, but you're too dumb to make that work".) After everybody makes sense of things and finds trainers to induct them into their classes, assume that they've also exercised their stats to the point that they've reached the standard array levels you gave them.