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Deca
2010-05-28, 06:58 AM
The first few charms of the Quicksilver Hand of Dreams Sidereal martial arts style can be learned by any being that can reach their 'dream sifu'. Does this mean that Fair Folk, usually limited to Terrestial martial arts, can learn the first couple of charms in this style?

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-28, 07:01 AM
No, it doesn't. For the record, it also doesn't mean that it can be learned by Lunars, Green Sun Princes, Alchemicals and Terrestrials.

EDIT: To clarify, only people capable of Sidereal Martial Arts can learn Quicksilver Hand of Dreams. That statement only means that Solars and Abyssals can learn those few Charms without a Sidereal sifu.

Deca
2010-05-28, 07:07 AM
Ah, but the Scroll of the Monk, which detailed what type of people cannot learn what kind of martial arts, came out before the Fair Folk book and thus did not include them. Because of this, the raksha have no set rules detailing what martial arts they can and cannot access.


...Unless there's been some errata that I'm unaware of. Which is actually, very likely.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-28, 07:14 AM
Ah, but the Scroll of the Monk, which detailed what type of people cannot learn what kind of martial arts, came out before the Fair Folk book and thus did not include them. Because of this, the raksha have no set rules detailing what martial arts they can and cannot access.

It is stated in Graceful Wicked Masques that the Fair Folk can only learn Terrestrials Martial Arts if they have the right mutation. It also leaves room for an ST to allow Celestial Martial Arts, but it also states that the spiritual refinement required for CMAs will greatly change the nature of a raksha. It never mentions SMAs.

Deca
2010-05-28, 07:17 AM
It is stated in Graceful Wicked Masques that the Fair Folk can only learn Terrestrials Martial Arts if they have the right mutation. It also leaves room for an ST to allow Celestial Martial Arts, but it also states that the spiritual refinement required for CMAs will greatly change the nature of a raksha. It never mentions SMAs.

And since it doesn't, and the Scroll never says anything about how Fair Folk interact with SMA's...then there is nothing actually saying that raksha can't learn the first few dreams of QHOD style.

I'm totally clutching at straws here but there must be a way for raksha to get SMA's. They're so thematically appropriate!


EDIT: Actually, the Scroll of the Monk even mentions a possible link between the Hand of Dreams style and the Fair Folk.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-28, 07:23 AM
I'm totally clutching at straws here but there must be a way for raksha to get SMA's. They're so thematically appropriate!

There aren't. Well, specifically, unless the ST says otherwise, but that is also true for everyone else learning anything ever.

Also, SMAs require a close connection to the principles of Creation, which is why Green Sun Princes, Alchemicals and post-Usurpation Lunars cannot learn them. Why would it be thematically appropriate for creatures that are completely detached from Creation to learn SMAs?

Deca
2010-05-28, 07:30 AM
There aren't. Well, specifically, unless the ST says otherwise, but that is also true for everyone else learning anything ever.

Also, SMAs require a close connection to the principles of Creation, which is why Green Sun Princes, Alchemicals and post-Usurpation Lunars cannot learn them. Why would it be thematically appropriate for creatures that are completely detached from Creation to learn SMAs?

Because a fair few of SMA use Shaping and mental craziness, which is what Fae are all about! Not to mention that it even mentions that the Hand of Dreams style is very similiar to Fae effects.

Also, close connection to the principles of Creation? Really? Because it seems that the Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style ignore those principles all the time. If it's confusing the Pattern spiders, it's not really in sync with the principles of Creation at all.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-28, 07:35 AM
Also, close connection to the principles of Creation? Really?

Yes, really.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-28, 07:38 AM
To learn Sidereal Martial Arts, you need to have a close connection to Creation.

Just because the style seems fitting doesn't mean they can break the rules just to learn it!

If you really want them to have something similar, make a lower-powered Celestial version!

Draxar
2010-05-28, 07:39 AM
There aren't. Well, specifically, unless the ST says otherwise, but that is also true for everyone else learning anything ever.

Also, SMAs require a close connection to the principles of Creation, which is why Green Sun Princes, Alchemicals and post-Usurpation Lunars cannot learn them. Why would it be thematically appropriate for creatures that are completely detached from Creation to learn SMAs?

It could be appropriate for one to learn Quicksilver Hand of Dreams. But that too is debatable.

I've always been of the opinion that pre-Usurpation Lunars were just as incapable of SMA as post-Usurpation ones there's some stuff there to allow STs that want to have that, but AFAIK, the base assumption is that they can't (in a similar manner to the base assumption in the setting being that the Yozi's Reclamation is doomed to failure).

The Demented One
2010-05-28, 08:35 AM
Letting the infinite horde of insane monsters that are trying to invade Creation learn Solar-tier charms, possibly a bad idea. Very possibly. Letting a unique raksha learn an SMA, less bad.

Indon
2010-05-28, 09:05 AM
Note that angering the pattern spiders is not breaking the rules of creation.

It's breaking creation's automated maintenance system, which can be overridden by the sidereals.

Raksha do not have the ability to interface with Creation on that level of sophistication - generally.

As a storyteller, I would be willing to make an exception for those raksha whose assumed form would find SMA effects appropriate. This would essentially create an SMA-capable subtype of raksha - probably feared by their peers for their attunement to the flows and structures of Creation, the principles of which underlie SMA.