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Raimun
2010-05-28, 09:24 AM
So, as usual, I were thinking about ways to fight the undead and it hit me:

Let's assume:

1) I have a Cleric character (high levelish)
2) The character has a portable hole and plenty of time and money (and powdered silver!)
3) He uses Bless Water to make enough Holy Water to fill the portable hole
4) Later, he manages to stuff a Medium sized undead monster (with like, a bajillion hit points) to this portable hole... and closes it

What would happen? I'd say that would either:
1) Destroy any undead monster instantly, or
2) Inflict so many times 2d4 damage (per round) that any undead monster would be eventually destroyed.

So... any thoughts?

imperialspectre
2010-05-28, 09:26 AM
It inflicts a great deal of constant damage, and so the creature is screwed unless it has some kind of teleportation ability and can make the Concentration checks to use it.

jiriku
2010-05-28, 09:38 AM
Since acid deals 1d6 on a hit or 10d6 per round for total immersion, and lava deals 2d6 per hit or 20d6 for total immersion, logically an undead creature totally immersed in holy water ought to take 20d4 damage per round.

Manga Shoggoth
2010-05-28, 09:50 AM
I would be inclined to suggest that after the creature has been immersed in the Holy Water and taken its first round of damage, the Holy Water has been contaminated and is no longer "Holy".

Pretty much for the same reason that regular Holy Water doesn't deal continuous damage.

Now, you might allow either:

A couple of rounds of damage if the the volume of Holy Water is very much greater than the creature
A larger amount of damage since this is an immersion rather than a splash


...But I can't see it being an instant kill or a permament continuous damage effect.

Mark Hall
2010-05-28, 11:52 AM
Since acid deals 1d6 on a hit or 10d6 per round for total immersion, and lava deals 2d6 per hit or 20d6 for total immersion, logically an undead creature totally immersed in holy water ought to take 20d4 damage per round.

I'd go with this.

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 12:02 PM
Since acid deals 1d6 on a hit or 10d6 per round for total immersion, and lava deals 2d6 per hit or 20d6 for total immersion, logically an undead creature totally immersed in holy water ought to take 20d4 damage per round.


I would be inclined to suggest that after the creature has been immersed in the Holy Water and taken its first round of damage, the Holy Water has been contaminated and is no longer "Holy".

Pretty much for the same reason that regular Holy Water doesn't deal continuous damage.

I'm inclined to combine these two. It would thus do 20d4 once.

But there should be some lasting penalty for immersion in holy water even if the creature ends up contaminating it.

Machiavellian
2010-05-28, 12:04 PM
and for Vamps, they die instantly.

Personally, I'd fill a Portable hole up as much as possible and hurl the water at him, like a geyser

gbprime
2010-05-28, 12:39 PM
I'm running a Water themed cleric right now in an undead-rich campaign.

Step 1 - Wall of Water
Step 2 - Sanctify Water

I can then use Control water or other spells to move that wall around the battlefield. Happy.

Machiavellian
2010-05-28, 01:13 PM
I'm running a Water themed cleric right now in an undead-rich campaign.

Step 1 - Wall of Water
Step 2 - Sanctify Water

I can then use Control water or other spells to move that wall around the battlefield. Happy.

actually, it goes like this:

Step One: Create Water
Step Two: Sanctify Water
Step Three: Animate Water

Congratulations! You have a Holy Water Elemental

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 01:16 PM
I'm running a Water themed cleric right now in an undead-rich campaign.

Step 1 - Wall of Water
Step 2 - Sanctify Water

I can then use Control water or other spells to move that wall around the battlefield. Happy.

Now I'm wondering if you can make Holy Water Elementals...

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-28, 01:19 PM
I'd say 10d6 for immersion since holy water specifically deals damage as acid.


and for Vamps, they die instantly.

Personally, I'd fill a Portable hole up as much as possible and hurl the water at him, like a geyser

How? Assuming the gravity of the plane onto which the hole opens affects the contents of the hole relative to its orientation to that plane, I'm not sure how you'd accomplish this.


Now I'm wondering if you can make Holy Water Elementals...

I don't see why not. But what would it accomplish? +1d6 damage to its attacks against creatures vulnerable to holy water seems like the maximum benefit.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 01:30 PM
I don't see why not. But what would it accomplish? +1d6 damage to its attacks against creatures vulnerable to holy water seems like the maximum benefit.

It can kill undead by hugging them.

Sounds like it's worth it to me.

Machiavellian
2010-05-28, 01:36 PM
How? Assuming the gravity of the plane onto which the hole opens affects the contents of the hole relative to its orientation to that plane, I'm not sure how you'd accomplish this.


Rule 16 of Dr. Who: Physics as you know it is wrong



I don't see why not. But what would it accomplish? +1d6 damage to its attacks against creatures vulnerable to holy water seems like the maximum benefit.

Its 1d6+Holy Water's Splash damage

Greenish
2010-05-28, 01:48 PM
How? Assuming the gravity of the plane onto which the hole opens affects the contents of the hole relative to its orientation to that plane, I'm not sure how you'd accomplish this.Place the hole on flat surface. Turn the surface upside down.

gorfnab
2010-05-28, 02:30 PM
Go for the Holy Super Soaker instead, a Decanter of Endless Water with continuous Bless Water on it.

QuantumSteve
2010-05-28, 03:13 PM
Go for the Holy Super Soaker instead, a Decanter of Endless Water with continuous Bless Water on it.

I like this. Although, there's not actually rules for throwing a whole lotta Holy Water/Acid/Alchemist's Fire, are there?

Greenish
2010-05-28, 03:25 PM
I like this. Although, there's not actually rules for throwing a whole lotta Holy Water/Acid/Alchemist's Fire, are there?Decanter of Endless Alchemist's Fire. 240d6 per round, another 240d6 the next round, 240 splash damage, range 20 feet.

Mark Hall
2010-05-28, 03:41 PM
Congratulations! You have a Holy Water Elemental

HOLY WATER ELEMENTALS, BATMAN!

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-05-28, 04:02 PM
You know, by core rules, it'll take a 20th level cleric 2349 days and 352 335 gp to fill a portable hole with water.

That's casting only Bless Water as your 1st level spells for SIX and a half YEARS.

Or 14 094 1st level clerics could do it in 1 minute.

Greenish
2010-05-28, 04:07 PM
You know, by core rules, it'll take a 20th level cleric 2349 days and 352 335 gp to fill a portable hole with water.

Or 14 094 1st level clerics could do it in 1 minute.If you had fourteen thousand clerics at your beck and call, you could just become deity and bypass those annoying limitations.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-05-28, 04:14 PM
If you had fourteen thousand clerics at your beck and call, you could just become deity and bypass those annoying limitations.
Quite.

I missed something, by the way. If you burn off ALL your spells per day at 20th level in casting Bless Water - you know, use up 2nd to 9th level slots to cast that crumby little low level spell - then it could take you as little as 314 days!

Less than a year of dumping all your power into the project?! Sign me up! :smallwink:

Or you know, you could cast Searing Light twice, for the same damage.

taltamir
2010-05-28, 04:17 PM
holy water doesn't lose its holyness for being "contaminated" by the undead it is splashed on... it stops dealing demage because it discharged the !MAGIC! that it contained...

if you cast enough magic and spent enough silver to create 14000 doses of holy water then there are 14000 doses of holy water in there...
You will deal 20d4 from total immersion per round, and each round 10 doses of holy water would be lost due to having discharged their magic.


Place the hole on flat surface. Turn the surface upside down.

also gets around a DM who decides the water was contaminated after 1 round ruining 14,000 castings of holy water.

QuantumSteve
2010-05-28, 04:21 PM
Decanter of Endless Alchemist's Fire. 240d6 per round, another 240d6 the next round, 240 splash damage, range 20 feet.

That's just you multiplying 1d6 per pint times 30 gallons per round, though, there's no actual rules. Unless that's an actual item from some 3rd party book I've never seen.

Still, 48,000gp worth of alchemist fire per minute. Bottle that sucker and make a mint.

Greenish
2010-05-28, 04:26 PM
That's just you multiplying 1d6 per pint times 30 gallons per roundO noes, someone has seen through my ingenious ruse!

Lateral
2010-05-28, 04:32 PM
...how do you get the decanter to make alchemist's fire instead of water? Is there a spell that could transmute that water into another liquid?

Greenish
2010-05-28, 04:33 PM
...how do you get the decanter to make alchemist's fire instead of water?Bribe/blackmail your DM.

taltamir
2010-05-28, 04:35 PM
Bribe/blackmail your DM.

or take a level in the most powerful PrC of them all (a level 1 DM's Girlfriend can get away with a lot)

somethingrandom
2010-05-28, 04:39 PM
Step Two: Sanctify Water

What book is Sanctify Water in?

Lateral
2010-05-28, 04:44 PM
What book is Sanctify Water in?

I dunno, do you mean Bless Water?

Grumman
2010-05-28, 04:54 PM
What book is Sanctify Water in?
It's a feat from Stormwrack.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 04:55 PM
Quite.

I missed something, by the way. If you burn off ALL your spells per day at 20th level in casting Bless Water - you know, use up 2nd to 9th level slots to cast that crumby little low level spell - then it could take you as little as 314 days!

Less than a year of dumping all your power into the project?! Sign me up! :smallwink:

Or you know, you could cast Searing Light twice, for the same damage.

C'mon. I'm sure there is some way to cheese this out with Arcane Thesis, Twinned and Repeating and Split spell. GITP DO NOT FAIL ME NOW.

Grumman
2010-05-28, 05:22 PM
C'mon. I'm sure there is some way to cheese this out with Arcane Thesis, Twinned and Repeating and Split spell. GITP DO NOT FAIL ME NOW.
You could just use the spell Water to Acid. A Twinned, Repeating Water to Acid would require 2-3 castings to convert a portable hole full of water into a portable hole full of acid.

LordShotGun
2010-05-28, 05:27 PM
You could just use the spell Water to Acid. A Twinned, Repeating Water to Acid would require 2-3 castings to convert a portable hole full of water into a portable hole full of acid.

So all we need to do is
1. planeshift to the plane of water
2. open up your portable hole until fill
3. Cast the Twinned, Repeating Water to Acid a few times
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!

Although If a magic user has access to these spells then why are they wasting thier time with this acid? I guess for base/castle defense. Have pesky adventurers coming to raid your place of study? Dump the portable hole down a narrow hallway pushing them back while damaging them.
Efficent? No...

Funny? HELL YES.

Greenish
2010-05-28, 05:29 PM
So all we need to do is
1. planeshift to the plane of waterOr, you know, just walk to the river/lake/pond/sea.

Lysander
2010-05-28, 05:50 PM
Or, give a tireless servant like a skeleton the portable hole and a flask, and put them by a natural spring with a Spell Clock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a) that produces holy water every hour on the hour. You can probably find better uses for 130,000gp though.

taltamir
2010-05-28, 06:40 PM
So all we need to do is
1. planeshift to the plane of water
2. open up your portable hole until fill
3. Cast the Twinned, Repeating Water to Acid a few times
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!

Although If a magic user has access to these spells then why are they wasting thier time with this acid? I guess for base/castle defense. Have pesky adventurers coming to raid your place of study? Dump the portable hole down a narrow hallway pushing them back while damaging them.
Efficent? No...

Funny? HELL YES.

good point... are there any undead which are immune to acid? the rest take 2d20 damage per round by RAW, so none of that "I would rule that your holy water is now tainted and stops working"...


Or, you know, just walk to the river/lake/pond/sea.

walking is for *******... besides, its way COOLER to plane shift to the plane of elemental water then it is to get boring mundane prime material plane water...

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 06:51 PM
The Lord of Tides PrC (Sandstorm) can open a lasting portal to the EPoW.

To get in, Clerics need ranks in Survival - Ruathar can help there.

Raimun
2010-05-29, 02:04 PM
Ok, change of plans.

Immobilize the undead and cast a Gate-spell over it. A Gate that goes to that sea of Holy Water in Celestia.

olelia
2010-05-29, 03:28 PM
Ok, change of plans.

Immobilize the undead and cast a Gate-spell over it. A Gate that goes to that sea of Holy Water in Celestia.

You close!....Do that in front of the entrance to the lichs dungeon :smallbiggrin:.