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View Full Version : Evard's Menacing Tentacles and precision



Thespianus
2010-05-29, 03:41 AM
I just stumbled upon Evard's Menacing Tentacles-spell in the PHBII. I've seen it before, but never considered the implications. In short, the spell gives you two tentacles with 10ft reach that you can direct as a free action to attack opponents.

Now, what dawned on me was this: Sneak attack damage? Skirmish?

The spell gives me two extra attacks each round, but do they qualify for sneak attack damage (assuming all other conditions for sneak attack is met)? Also, it seems to me that this spell is fantastic for a skirmish based caster build: Since the attacks are free actions, and you can initiate the attacks during your round, it seems to me that it's a fine way to get around the "You cant move, attack, and move again"-problem that limits the usability of a skirmish build.

So, what say you? Would my Arcane Rogue get two extra attacks with sneak attack damage AND reach with this spell? Or is there some interpretation of the spell that make sneak attack (or skirmish) not apply?

It seems to me to be a fine, fine spell, but as always when something seems too good to be true, it probably is. So, please, fellow Playgrounders, blow this one out of the waters for me. :)

Runestar
2010-05-29, 03:58 AM
You qualify for sneak attack anytime you meet its requirements. In this case, yes, both tentacles would get to deal SA or skirmish damage when appropriate.

Zaq
2010-05-29, 04:07 AM
You're expecting a Sor/Wiz spell to be not as good as it looks, because it looks unbalanced.

Are we playing the same 3.5?

QuantumSteve
2010-05-29, 04:34 AM
How exactly are you reading this spell that you get extra attacks? The tentacles get attacks, not you. The tentacles may use your BaB and Str but it's still the tentacles that are attacking. I don't see anything in the spell that says the tentacles gain benefits from any class abilities or feats, just your BaB and Str.

Runestar
2010-05-29, 05:04 AM
The tentacles get attacks, not you.

To me, the tentacles are a part of you, similar to as though you had acquired additional natural attacks via a feat or template. Only difference is that you are allowed to attack with them as a free action, rather than having to burn the full-attack action (which a wizard would never be caught dead doing).

Of course, the drawback is that if you can access more than 1 full attack/round, such as via swiftblade or time stands still, you won't get to make extra attacks with those tentacles. :smallconfused:

QuantumSteve
2010-05-29, 05:31 AM
I'm still hung up on the wording. The only part of the spell that makes any reference to the tentacles being a part of you is the flavor text. The "tentacles threaten", not "you threaten" The "tentacles can make AoOs", not you. In fact, they can't even use your AoOs if you have extras from Combat Reflexes. Also,it says "you can direct the tentacles to attack," just like summoned creatures, Spiritual Weapon, Bigby's Hand, etc. You don't "direct your weapon attack", You Attack. The only thing you do in the wording of this spell, is cast it.

Critical
2010-05-29, 05:41 AM
You don't even need this... Just Polymorph into a Hydra. :smallbiggrin:

Runestar
2010-05-29, 06:10 AM
But...a hydra with menacing tentacles...:smalleek:

Curmudgeon
2010-05-29, 06:15 AM
You direct the tentacles to attack, which means you're not attacking with them yourself. Directing them is a free action, which also means you're not using your own attack actions. Sneak attack is a special ability, and the tentacles as described do not have this ability. They're coexistent with your location, so they can't even provide you with a flanking partner.

It's still a pretty powerful spell; it just can't help with sneak attack.

Thespianus
2010-05-29, 06:17 AM
Also,it says "you can direct the tentacles to attack," just like summoned creatures, Spiritual Weapon, Bigby's Hand, etc. You don't "direct your weapon attack", You Attack. The only thing you do in the wording of this spell, is cast it.
On re-re-reading the text, I believe you make a good point. However, the difference in wording from, say "Cloud of Knives" a few pages earlier in PHBII, doesn't differ that much. If you were to compare the two, would you say that Cloud of Knives gives sneak attack damage?

I've always seen Cloud of Knives as a spell that gives you sneak attack damage, if you can get the target to lose his Dex-bonus. The Menacing Tentacles (if they allowed sneak attack) would be better than Cloud of Knives, but then again, it's a 3rd level spell rather than a 2nd level spell.

Thespianus
2010-05-29, 06:18 AM
You direct the tentacles to attack, which means you're not attacking with them yourself. Directing them is a free action, which also means you're not using your own attack actions. Sneak attack is a special ability, and the tentacles as described do not have this ability. They're coexistent with your location, so they can't even provide you with a flanking partner.

It's still a pretty powerful spell; it just can't help with sneak attack.

Ok, I'm backing out. With Curmudgeon on the other side of the rules argument, I'm tapping out. :)

EDIT: I'm guessing using them to deliver touch spells would be out of the question too? ;)

The Dark Fiddler
2010-05-29, 07:25 AM
{triple post}

Dude, edit your posts.

Anyway, I'd say yes, that would also not happen.

Tiki Snakes
2010-05-29, 01:42 PM
So, they key off of your BAB and Str? Is this spell personal range only? Because Tentacled Fighters with iteratively free-attacking tentacles, plus BFS sounds pretty okay, really. :smallsmile: Also, CoDzillas, I suppose, perhaps.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-29, 01:54 PM
So, they key off of your BAB and Str? Is this spell personal range only? Because Tentacled Fighters with iteratively free-attacking tentacles, plus BFS sounds pretty okay, really. :smallsmile: Also, CoDzillas, I suppose, perhaps.

War weaving for fun and profit! Turning personal spells into total party spells at no extra cost!

Temotei
2010-05-29, 01:56 PM
I didn't read the thread, but I hope I'm not the only one who felt an obligation to post here because of the title.

true_shinken
2010-05-29, 02:33 PM
I didn't read the thread, but I hope I'm not the only one who felt an obligation to post here because of the title.
Heh heh. Precision...