[3.5] Helf, half-hobgoblin and half-elf

[Gamerlord]

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW...... That must be what you are saying right now...so am I, but I haven't homebrewed anything D&D related in a while so...

HELF
As their mortal foes, elves often are raided by hobgoblins, or vice verse,these...THINGS...tend to be the result.
Personality: Xenophobic,rowdy, and paranoid...best description of a Helf's personality. They are the ones most likely to cause bar brawls.
Physical description: They weigh between 170 and 240 pounds, and typically appear like hobgoblins, but with elf-like ears.
Relations:Hobgoblins HATE helfs, to the point where they systematically purge any discovered helfs from the local region. Elves barely acknowledge the elf blood and sentience in helfs, everyone else treats them like one would treat a goblinoid.
Alignment: All this alienation tends to lead helfs down the path of evil, but many also are neutral
Helf lands: Helf have no lands.
Religion: Helf rarely walk the path of the cleric, and very few are pious.
Language:Helf tend to speak goblin,elf, and common.
Names: Depends on who raised it, they tend to pick something from their race.
Adventurers: What other job could a Helf have, being hated and persecuted everywhere they go?
HELF RACIAL STATS:
+4 dexterity, -4 charisma, : Helf are extremely agile. But they have trouble making friends.
Medium: No penalties or benefits.
A Helf's base lands speed is 30 ft.
Darkvision out to 40 ft.
+2 racial bonus to listen,search,spot, and move silently. They have many of their ancestor's skills.
Knowledge of ancestors: Helf gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against elves and goblins. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures. They also get a general +2 racial bonus to listen,search,spot, and move silently. They have many of their ancestor's skills.
Immunity to magic sleep effects
Automatic languages: Common,Goblin, and Elven. Bonus languages: Draconic,Dwarven,Infernal,Giant,Orc,Gnoll, and Slyvan.
Favored Class: Rogue
Level adjustment +0

[Rauthiss]

LA +2 for that? With all due respect... I would never in hell take this race. :/

[Gamerlord]

LA +2 for that? With all due respect... I would never in hell take this race. :/

Should I decrease it?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Should I decrease it?

The +4 Dex bonus is the only thing that might even make this have a shot at being LA +1, and it would be a very weak LA +1 race. I'd recommend dropping the Dex bonus to +2 (not sure why it would end up MORE agile than either parent), and make it LA +0.

Also, it's really just an Elf with a Charisma penalty, a different weapon set, and darkvision instead of low-light vision. Can you do anything more interesting with it?

[lesser_minion]

You haven't given this race much at all. The +4 to Dex mandates a +1 level adjustment or higher, but it isn't actually strong enough that a +1 LA is a good fit.

LA +2 is certainly right out.

You need to either eliminate the additional Dex bonus (dropping them to LA 0), or drop them to LA +1 and give them better or additional abilities so that they actually fit with that.

I'd recommend the second one, because otherwise, this is hardly stellar.

[Ferrin]

Please compare this race with the Drow from the Monster Manual, then look at the comments these helpful people made. It should be quite obvious. :smallwink:

[Gamerlord]

Decreased the LA and gave it a bonus feat and spell resistance.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Decreased the LA and gave it a bonus feat and spell resistance.

...:smallconfused:

Now it just seems like you're throwing abilities on for the sake of throwing abilities on. The race has become a potluck of powers with no concievable explaination. That's not good design there. How does Hobgoblin + Elf = bonus Toughness feat, Spell Resistance, and being friends with Demons?

[Gamerlord]

...:smallconfused:

Now it just seems like you're throwing abilities on for the sake of throwing abilities on. The race has become a potluck of powers with no concievable explaination. That's not good design there. How does Hobgoblin + Elf = bonus Toughness feat, Spell Resistance, and being friends with Demons?

Ummm..good point :smallredface: .

Guess I just figured I needed to do something to fix them, and I guess "DEMONS!" just came naturally to me. Probably will think of something later.

[Anonymouswizard]

Remove the weapon proficiencies, they are not an inborn elven trait.

[Gamerlord]

Okay, I'm going to edit to some sort of deal with the devil sort of thing.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Okay, I'm going to edit to some sort of deal with the devil sort of thing.

I'm not really sure that fixes it. It now seems more like a template that could be applied to all of Garak's descendants rather than a standard feature of a half-breed race. It I try to imagine that ALL half-elf/half-hobgoblins are somehow cursed by Asmodeus, I can't help but chuckle a bit to myself and not take it seriously. I'd either say keep them mundane, or drop the hybrid race part and make a specific race or template of cursed whatever. Look at the Hellborn (I think that's the name) or the Karsites for a good example of a race with some special circumstances about them.

[Gamerlord]

Look at the Hellborn (I think that's the name) or the Karsites for a good example of a race with some special circumstances about them.

.........I don't believe I own the books those exist in.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

.........I don't believe I own the books those exist in.

Fair enough.

I suppose the point I was trying to make previously was this: 9 times out of 10, you want a race to be easily incorporated into a number of existing campaigns. Strange things like the Karsite, the Hellborn, and the races from the Book of Vile Darkness have a tendency to be cut from campaigns because they have such specific connotations that come with them.

If I'm playing a Drow, a Hobgoblin, or a Dwarf, I can basically run with them in whatever direction I wish. The Helf has a lot of stuff forced upon it...and both players and DMs will wonder why, and are more likely to shy away from it as a result.

Imagine, if you will, if the following had been added to the racial entry on Dwarves:

Earth-Cursed: Dwarves were once humans, bound to the earth for crimes against it, and forever cast out of its favor. They recieve a -4 penalty to saving throws against the abilities creatures other than aberrations, undead, constructs, and outsiders, but a gain +2 bonus to saving throws against the abilities of aberrations, undead, constructs and outsiders.

Yeah, it's just another ability...but it's also forcing flavor down the player's throat, and, suddenly, Dwarves aren't useful in most games without serious reflavoring. See the problem? Randomly sticking demonic abilities on something that is, basically, just another hybrid race will get a similiar response.

[Gamerlord]

Fair enough.

I suppose the point I was trying to make previously was this: 9 times out of 10, you want a race to be easily incorporated into a number of existing campaigns. Strange things like the Karsite, the Hellborn, and the races from the Book of Vile Darkness have a tendency to be cut from campaigns because they have such specific connotations that come with them.

If I'm playing a Drow, a Hobgoblin, or a Dwarf, I can basically run with them in whatever direction I wish. The Helf has a lot of stuff forced upon it...and both players and DMs will wonder why, and are more likely to shy away from it as a result.

Imagine, if you will, if the following had been added to the racial entry on Dwarves:

Earth-Cursed: Dwarves were once humans, bound to the earth for crimes against it, and forever cast out of its favor. They recieve a -4 penalty to saving throws against the abilities creatures other than aberrations, undead, constructs, and outsiders, but a gain +2 bonus to saving throws against the abilities of aberrations, undead, constructs and outsiders.

Yeah, it's just another ability...but it's also forcing flavor down the player's throat, and, suddenly, Dwarves aren't useful in most games without serious reflavoring. See the problem? Randomly sticking demonic abilities on something that is, basically, just another hybrid race will get a similiar response.

Hmmm, good point, OK, I am going to completely change them, for one, I am going to drop all LA.

[PersonMan]

Looks good now, at least to me.