Silverraptor
2010-06-05, 02:01 PM
If you want to be apart of the many stories here in the playground, please post here and let us know. Remember, please follow the forum rules at all times and stay away from heavy romance stories to respect the wishes of our moderators.
Storie's Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155048)
{List of participants to come soon}
Rule List
Aaaaaahhhh, the joys of writing.
GUess what? As the grandmother of the first set of threads I give full permission for Curly (and all derivatives thereof) to be used in stories.
Now business:
Back when there were still Shipping Threads, towards the edge of their life there was serious talk about better rules so as to avoid closure.
I c&p my annotated rules below (mostly unedited from previous posts and PMs) with the suggestion they get edited into the first post of the permissions thread and the story thread proper.
NOTE: the section dealing specifically with 'romance' still applies, but as with the moderators suggestions I believe we should avoid any heavy romance stories until the mods say otherwise.
I'm not sure how far heavy romance is so I'll probably write up a few stories, send them to Roland and ask which or if any of them go over the heavy romance line or if it's best to just avoid all romance stories.
I've been working on an analysis/clarification and elaboration on the Forum Rules specifically through Shipping (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8296390&postcount=1087) goggles.
I've annotated the majority of the Forum Rules, but the most Shipping relevant parts are under Major Infractions, Innapropriate Topics and Shipping Permissions and Shipping Stories in particular so I've copied and pasted the most pertinent parts below as well as I'd like especial help defining what is and is not acceptable.
Major Infractions
Flaming - breaking this down line by line again.
Specific things you cannot do on this message board that might be allowed elsewhere:
Tell a poster to shut up or to stop posting on the current thread. - if this has happened before, let's not have it happen again. We're all equal here, and the only people whose opinions count more than anyone else's are the people in your shipping story. If they have serious objections to content in that story you'll have to remove it or edit it according to their objections. This is why we have Story Permissions and our own sense. Aside from this, eveyrone's opinion is equal. Please see below for further discussion of Shipping Permissions.
Name calling, including terms obviously meant in a pejorative sense such as "troll" or "fanboy" - we've had occasional minor insults bandied about in this thread, but not, I think, more than any other general thread. But seeing as our very existence is skirting some major issues let's not do this any more. But 'fanboy' and 'fangirl' in a positive sense are allowed.
. . .
Putting down or insulting ANY play preference, including (but not explicitly limited to) choice of game system, choice of preferred levels, classes, or races, choice of setting, choice of power level, etc. You cannot call another poster a munchkin or make any other disparaging remarks about how they like to play the game. You can express your own preference, you can express why you don't care for their preference, but you can't put someone down for feeling differently. - not a real problem I hope. This is a shipping thread. We all have our own preferences (for writing and for whom we want/don't want to be shipped with). Don't mock people's preferences. A creative writing thread is for creative writing. You can explain why you didn't like X, but you can't mock/insult people for it. Plain and simple.
Belittling or putting down anyone or their opinions based on post count, member rank, or how long they have been a member. - How can I put this? Yes, I'm the Grandmother of Shipping and Goddess of the Written Word. THIS MEANS NOTHING. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's unless I'm commenting on a ship I'm in/have written. And even then the former only count for the writer. The opinion youngest shipper and even the one who hasn't written a ship counts just a validly as mine or anyone else's.
Posting insults or slurs based on anyone's race, religion, ethnicity, age, gender, or sexual orientation is a Permanent Infraction (see below). - I don't know if this counts 'in-story'. All I can say is: USE YOUR DISCRETION. Nevertheless, no racism, no homo/other sexuality-phobia please. This isn't actually a problem out-of-story. In-story, I think we'll have a little leeway if it's with our own fantasy-worlds. Like with the Word Builder threads. All I can say is: out of story if this happens you're a numpty. Please don't do this. In-story . . . keep it to an absolute minimum, obviously we'd prefer it if we didn't have any; but for some of the more dramatic stories, if it's necessary disclaimers are a must-have. Also, definitely consult with the people in the story about this. And possibly your chosen 'proofreader' if you decide to have one. I think I'll PM some questions to Roland or another mod to discuss the application of such things inside a story. But for now, if it's in the story, let's keep it to an absolute minimum and make sure everyone in-story's okay with this and post a disclaimer.
...
Posting on Inappropriate Topics - see below for this. It's the MAJOR SHIPPING DISCUSSION.
...
Vigilante Modding
If you’re not a Moderator, don’t act like one. Rich has selected a few people he trusts to keep an eye on conversations here. Please refrain from chastising other posters over breaking the rules, especially concerning minor things. The proper response when you see someone breaking these rules is to report the post as discussed above or to a PM to the local Moderator. At most, you may courteously link to this thread. But whatever you do, do not tell other posters what to do, what rules they have broken, that they are "spamming", etc. Posters who do so excessively will be issued an Infraction for their actions. - our ''mini-modders'' would probably violate this, so if everyone becomes their own ''mini-modder'' it would probably be better. The mods have, however, mentioned that it is very difficult to moderate threads such as this, so as long as we set up our own, stricter set of rules we should be okay. I also think that, a far as stories go, if you're unsure as to whether or not you think a story is hedging the line, PMing it to a 'veteran shipper' or someone else whose opinion you respect and ask them it should be acceptable. Mods and Admins have however, said that nudging people back on topic or in line with the rules is acceptable. Nudge, don't moderate.
...
Inappropriate Topics
The following topics are always off-limits on these forums, no matter what (hence, Inappropriate Topics). Any posts including these topics will be edited, and any threads started to discuss these topics will be locked. Please note that, as specifically stated below, these topics remain off-limits even where they intersect with gaming or other activities discussed on these forums, and that putting an alert for “Adult” or “Mature” content on the thread does not allow circumvention of this rule. - let's break this down again.
Real-world religions (including religious reactions to gaming) - I believe mythological religions have been excepted from this, and as our most 'religiously involved' stories have either created an entire new mythos or used ancient/dead/mythologcal pantheons, so we're okay for this. As further evidence, I indicate FFRP and DnD discussions.
Real-world politics (including political reactions to gaming) - the politics of a new mythos are free from this as Redemption and I'm Sorry to Love You have shown. I'm going to make a rough ruling here: let's say no politics after 1900 to be discussed or overly mentioned in-story or out-story. You can definitely set stories in this time period, most of us probably do, but try to keep the politics unmentioned or as extremely lightly as possible. And definitely don't discuss it out-story. AGain, as a rough guideline, look at FFRP and DnD specific boards for acceptability.
Graphic violence - this has been an issue for several stories. Try to keep it to a 15. We can't avoid violence in some of these stories, so let's not try. Just keep it as discreet as possible. And not over a 15.
Illegal drugs - No real-world drugs. Preferably no other-world drugs, either.
Criminal activity - I don't know about this one. From my admittedly hazy recollection of every story in the thread, our 'criminal activity' has been minimal. And almost entirely kept to serials in which we have created an entire other-world. I'd appreciate some assistance from people who've frequented the world-building threads for whether or not they allow for thieves guild mechanics and whatnot in them.
At a rough ruling I'd say that if the OoTS comic has it, we can as well as long as you keep it within the graphic violence ruling above. But preferably, no obvious criminal activity, I don't see any reason to say "Don't mention criminal activity at all", but avoid it as much as possible. I don't know about obvious guidelines yet, so use your discretion for now. If need be we can discuss this further for 'permissable in-story criminal activity'.
Explicit sexuality - this is our big one. Generally if we have same-sex pairs we don't treat it as controversial or unusual which is fine. Not explicit.
Obviously this means no sex scenes - we've skirted this sometimes - memorably I remember a Reinholdt Playa one which I found awkward and uncomfortable, and definitely no non-con.
I also think that as a 100% rule: if a person in your story finds anything objectionable, especially under this ruling, tone it down.
If any of you read FF.net I think as a fast and loose ruling we should say keep it to a T-rating; and in real-world film ratings, a . . . 15 at the very most. I won't go as far as to say no sexual content because this is a shipping thread and physical and sexual appeal is an intrinsic part of it so to remove it entirely would cause us to lose a certain aspect of it.
The notable thing with this ruling is explicit, innuedno, and implicit stuff is therefore permissable - you can certainly have scenes cut away as characters go to bed and whatnot and then have them say "That was great." , but no gory detail.
The UK has a film rating called 12A which is roughly PG-13, if we say this is the preferred maximum level of sexuality I believe it is implicit and not breaking the rules.
Shipping Permissions and Shipping Stories
I'm going to come down hard on this point, right here, right now: if anyone writes a story including someone/people who have not given their permission in the Shipping Permissions thread or by PM or personal confirmation in-thread it is against the Shipping Rules and the Forum Rules too. Alarra asked this of us way back in the beginning, we will abide by it. If someone appears in a story in a way which they have explicitly specified as outside of their limits the following will happen:
1. The author will be given twenty-four hours to edit the story so that all involved are happy with it.
2. If this does not happen the author will be asked to delete it or follow step 1. within a further twenty-four hours. The author is allowed to delete the story, rewrite it and repost it, but should that happen I believe the author should then PM the revised story to the person and get their approval before reposting it in-thread.
3. If that does not happen it should be classified as worthy of reporting. It will be reported.
In addition, I'd also say that the majority of people would probably like to at least be notified that they've been shipped, so PM them when you've posted a story. This isn't absolute and you won't be in 'trouble' if you don't PM people a link to the story; but it is good manners.
Other than that, if you feel weird about posting a ship either reread the forum rules so you can satisfy yourself they're within the parameters, or frankly, rewrite it until you feel happy and comfortable with it.
I'm specifically concerned about in-story activity when related to the Inapropriate Topics section, I know that when the forum was started up there probably wasn't any idea that threads like Shipping and Crack Pairing would ever appear, and I find the nebulous nature of that section a problem in parts.
As a result I've had to resort to film ratings or the comic to more obviously define the limits of 'criminal activity'/graphic violence (i.e. murder as okay if it's 'like' the murders/deaths in the webcomic - so not too gory, or if you follow the films ratings if it's a death/murder that would be acceptable in a film that's between a U and a 15; (I'm working off the UK film ratings though) and with preference a 12A/PG-13 as a general medium.
I've also had to use my vague knowledge of the word building and FFRP threads as a basis as well to decide what's good in-story for things such as politics and religion. Otherworld religion has a blanket 'yes' as long as it doesn't mirror Realworld religion, this is staed in the rules themselves; I've also taken that as good for in-story, and applied the same rule for politics. In addition, where stories are set this-world post 1900 I've placed a very stict limit on any mention of politics just in case someone takes offence or uses it as a starting point for a discussion.
Please read through these rules when you have the chance. The warning about romance should be especially paid attention to. But if you really want to have a little romance in your story because it would make it good, please do so with caution. As a rule of thumb, as long as it doesn't go past hugging and kissing, and the kissing scenes aren't longer than 10 seconds (:smalltongue:), then use that as the exact limit to romance and do not go futher.
Storie's Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155048)
{List of participants to come soon}
Rule List
Aaaaaahhhh, the joys of writing.
GUess what? As the grandmother of the first set of threads I give full permission for Curly (and all derivatives thereof) to be used in stories.
Now business:
Back when there were still Shipping Threads, towards the edge of their life there was serious talk about better rules so as to avoid closure.
I c&p my annotated rules below (mostly unedited from previous posts and PMs) with the suggestion they get edited into the first post of the permissions thread and the story thread proper.
NOTE: the section dealing specifically with 'romance' still applies, but as with the moderators suggestions I believe we should avoid any heavy romance stories until the mods say otherwise.
I'm not sure how far heavy romance is so I'll probably write up a few stories, send them to Roland and ask which or if any of them go over the heavy romance line or if it's best to just avoid all romance stories.
I've been working on an analysis/clarification and elaboration on the Forum Rules specifically through Shipping (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8296390&postcount=1087) goggles.
I've annotated the majority of the Forum Rules, but the most Shipping relevant parts are under Major Infractions, Innapropriate Topics and Shipping Permissions and Shipping Stories in particular so I've copied and pasted the most pertinent parts below as well as I'd like especial help defining what is and is not acceptable.
Major Infractions
Flaming - breaking this down line by line again.
Specific things you cannot do on this message board that might be allowed elsewhere:
Tell a poster to shut up or to stop posting on the current thread. - if this has happened before, let's not have it happen again. We're all equal here, and the only people whose opinions count more than anyone else's are the people in your shipping story. If they have serious objections to content in that story you'll have to remove it or edit it according to their objections. This is why we have Story Permissions and our own sense. Aside from this, eveyrone's opinion is equal. Please see below for further discussion of Shipping Permissions.
Name calling, including terms obviously meant in a pejorative sense such as "troll" or "fanboy" - we've had occasional minor insults bandied about in this thread, but not, I think, more than any other general thread. But seeing as our very existence is skirting some major issues let's not do this any more. But 'fanboy' and 'fangirl' in a positive sense are allowed.
. . .
Putting down or insulting ANY play preference, including (but not explicitly limited to) choice of game system, choice of preferred levels, classes, or races, choice of setting, choice of power level, etc. You cannot call another poster a munchkin or make any other disparaging remarks about how they like to play the game. You can express your own preference, you can express why you don't care for their preference, but you can't put someone down for feeling differently. - not a real problem I hope. This is a shipping thread. We all have our own preferences (for writing and for whom we want/don't want to be shipped with). Don't mock people's preferences. A creative writing thread is for creative writing. You can explain why you didn't like X, but you can't mock/insult people for it. Plain and simple.
Belittling or putting down anyone or their opinions based on post count, member rank, or how long they have been a member. - How can I put this? Yes, I'm the Grandmother of Shipping and Goddess of the Written Word. THIS MEANS NOTHING. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's unless I'm commenting on a ship I'm in/have written. And even then the former only count for the writer. The opinion youngest shipper and even the one who hasn't written a ship counts just a validly as mine or anyone else's.
Posting insults or slurs based on anyone's race, religion, ethnicity, age, gender, or sexual orientation is a Permanent Infraction (see below). - I don't know if this counts 'in-story'. All I can say is: USE YOUR DISCRETION. Nevertheless, no racism, no homo/other sexuality-phobia please. This isn't actually a problem out-of-story. In-story, I think we'll have a little leeway if it's with our own fantasy-worlds. Like with the Word Builder threads. All I can say is: out of story if this happens you're a numpty. Please don't do this. In-story . . . keep it to an absolute minimum, obviously we'd prefer it if we didn't have any; but for some of the more dramatic stories, if it's necessary disclaimers are a must-have. Also, definitely consult with the people in the story about this. And possibly your chosen 'proofreader' if you decide to have one. I think I'll PM some questions to Roland or another mod to discuss the application of such things inside a story. But for now, if it's in the story, let's keep it to an absolute minimum and make sure everyone in-story's okay with this and post a disclaimer.
...
Posting on Inappropriate Topics - see below for this. It's the MAJOR SHIPPING DISCUSSION.
...
Vigilante Modding
If you’re not a Moderator, don’t act like one. Rich has selected a few people he trusts to keep an eye on conversations here. Please refrain from chastising other posters over breaking the rules, especially concerning minor things. The proper response when you see someone breaking these rules is to report the post as discussed above or to a PM to the local Moderator. At most, you may courteously link to this thread. But whatever you do, do not tell other posters what to do, what rules they have broken, that they are "spamming", etc. Posters who do so excessively will be issued an Infraction for their actions. - our ''mini-modders'' would probably violate this, so if everyone becomes their own ''mini-modder'' it would probably be better. The mods have, however, mentioned that it is very difficult to moderate threads such as this, so as long as we set up our own, stricter set of rules we should be okay. I also think that, a far as stories go, if you're unsure as to whether or not you think a story is hedging the line, PMing it to a 'veteran shipper' or someone else whose opinion you respect and ask them it should be acceptable. Mods and Admins have however, said that nudging people back on topic or in line with the rules is acceptable. Nudge, don't moderate.
...
Inappropriate Topics
The following topics are always off-limits on these forums, no matter what (hence, Inappropriate Topics). Any posts including these topics will be edited, and any threads started to discuss these topics will be locked. Please note that, as specifically stated below, these topics remain off-limits even where they intersect with gaming or other activities discussed on these forums, and that putting an alert for “Adult” or “Mature” content on the thread does not allow circumvention of this rule. - let's break this down again.
Real-world religions (including religious reactions to gaming) - I believe mythological religions have been excepted from this, and as our most 'religiously involved' stories have either created an entire new mythos or used ancient/dead/mythologcal pantheons, so we're okay for this. As further evidence, I indicate FFRP and DnD discussions.
Real-world politics (including political reactions to gaming) - the politics of a new mythos are free from this as Redemption and I'm Sorry to Love You have shown. I'm going to make a rough ruling here: let's say no politics after 1900 to be discussed or overly mentioned in-story or out-story. You can definitely set stories in this time period, most of us probably do, but try to keep the politics unmentioned or as extremely lightly as possible. And definitely don't discuss it out-story. AGain, as a rough guideline, look at FFRP and DnD specific boards for acceptability.
Graphic violence - this has been an issue for several stories. Try to keep it to a 15. We can't avoid violence in some of these stories, so let's not try. Just keep it as discreet as possible. And not over a 15.
Illegal drugs - No real-world drugs. Preferably no other-world drugs, either.
Criminal activity - I don't know about this one. From my admittedly hazy recollection of every story in the thread, our 'criminal activity' has been minimal. And almost entirely kept to serials in which we have created an entire other-world. I'd appreciate some assistance from people who've frequented the world-building threads for whether or not they allow for thieves guild mechanics and whatnot in them.
At a rough ruling I'd say that if the OoTS comic has it, we can as well as long as you keep it within the graphic violence ruling above. But preferably, no obvious criminal activity, I don't see any reason to say "Don't mention criminal activity at all", but avoid it as much as possible. I don't know about obvious guidelines yet, so use your discretion for now. If need be we can discuss this further for 'permissable in-story criminal activity'.
Explicit sexuality - this is our big one. Generally if we have same-sex pairs we don't treat it as controversial or unusual which is fine. Not explicit.
Obviously this means no sex scenes - we've skirted this sometimes - memorably I remember a Reinholdt Playa one which I found awkward and uncomfortable, and definitely no non-con.
I also think that as a 100% rule: if a person in your story finds anything objectionable, especially under this ruling, tone it down.
If any of you read FF.net I think as a fast and loose ruling we should say keep it to a T-rating; and in real-world film ratings, a . . . 15 at the very most. I won't go as far as to say no sexual content because this is a shipping thread and physical and sexual appeal is an intrinsic part of it so to remove it entirely would cause us to lose a certain aspect of it.
The notable thing with this ruling is explicit, innuedno, and implicit stuff is therefore permissable - you can certainly have scenes cut away as characters go to bed and whatnot and then have them say "That was great." , but no gory detail.
The UK has a film rating called 12A which is roughly PG-13, if we say this is the preferred maximum level of sexuality I believe it is implicit and not breaking the rules.
Shipping Permissions and Shipping Stories
I'm going to come down hard on this point, right here, right now: if anyone writes a story including someone/people who have not given their permission in the Shipping Permissions thread or by PM or personal confirmation in-thread it is against the Shipping Rules and the Forum Rules too. Alarra asked this of us way back in the beginning, we will abide by it. If someone appears in a story in a way which they have explicitly specified as outside of their limits the following will happen:
1. The author will be given twenty-four hours to edit the story so that all involved are happy with it.
2. If this does not happen the author will be asked to delete it or follow step 1. within a further twenty-four hours. The author is allowed to delete the story, rewrite it and repost it, but should that happen I believe the author should then PM the revised story to the person and get their approval before reposting it in-thread.
3. If that does not happen it should be classified as worthy of reporting. It will be reported.
In addition, I'd also say that the majority of people would probably like to at least be notified that they've been shipped, so PM them when you've posted a story. This isn't absolute and you won't be in 'trouble' if you don't PM people a link to the story; but it is good manners.
Other than that, if you feel weird about posting a ship either reread the forum rules so you can satisfy yourself they're within the parameters, or frankly, rewrite it until you feel happy and comfortable with it.
I'm specifically concerned about in-story activity when related to the Inapropriate Topics section, I know that when the forum was started up there probably wasn't any idea that threads like Shipping and Crack Pairing would ever appear, and I find the nebulous nature of that section a problem in parts.
As a result I've had to resort to film ratings or the comic to more obviously define the limits of 'criminal activity'/graphic violence (i.e. murder as okay if it's 'like' the murders/deaths in the webcomic - so not too gory, or if you follow the films ratings if it's a death/murder that would be acceptable in a film that's between a U and a 15; (I'm working off the UK film ratings though) and with preference a 12A/PG-13 as a general medium.
I've also had to use my vague knowledge of the word building and FFRP threads as a basis as well to decide what's good in-story for things such as politics and religion. Otherworld religion has a blanket 'yes' as long as it doesn't mirror Realworld religion, this is staed in the rules themselves; I've also taken that as good for in-story, and applied the same rule for politics. In addition, where stories are set this-world post 1900 I've placed a very stict limit on any mention of politics just in case someone takes offence or uses it as a starting point for a discussion.
Please read through these rules when you have the chance. The warning about romance should be especially paid attention to. But if you really want to have a little romance in your story because it would make it good, please do so with caution. As a rule of thumb, as long as it doesn't go past hugging and kissing, and the kissing scenes aren't longer than 10 seconds (:smalltongue:), then use that as the exact limit to romance and do not go futher.