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RelentlessImp
2010-06-06, 08:28 AM
So, I've long been fairly outspoken about Chaotic Neutral and the way most people interpret it due to the line in 2E's description ("This is the alignment of madmen") and their reluctance to play with anyone taking the Chaotic Neutral alignment. Understandably; a lot of people tend to play this alignment as a way to just act nuts in character, giving rise to the "Chaotic Stupid" moniker attached to it (and Chaotic Evil, but that's a whole other topic).

I've been complimented a few times when I play Chaotic Neutral characters for the sole reason of not using it as an excuse to act crazy. But now I'm in a conundrum;

I've made my first ever insane character that's Chaotic Neutral. Well, not really insane - suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder. Long story short, he suffered some trauma in his childhood when his friends were crushed beneath a crumbling Skyway in Sharn, and now has five distinct personalities - four of them those friends who were killed so long ago. He's also a Changeling, so he alters his appearance to match what he believes they would have looked like had they lived when the personality change comes over him.

So, as this is my first time actually playing a mildly insane character, I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice for someone taking their first steps into roleplaying a mentally FUBAR'd character.

CoffeeIncluded
2010-06-06, 08:29 AM
First off, schizophrenia does not equal multiple personalities. How messed up is he?

Prodan
2010-06-06, 08:30 AM
Dissociative Identity Disorder results in multiple personalities.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by disrupted thought and abnormal perceptions of reality.

Project_Mayhem
2010-06-06, 08:33 AM
Sinister rather than wacky is also a good move with insanity. You probably want to avoid wacky cause it just gets annoying quickly.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-06, 08:34 AM
Dissociative Identity Disorder results in multiple personalities.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by disrupted thought and abnormal perceptions of reality.

Thank you. Ugh. I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning and my fingers typically have a mind of their own. Altering original post.


First off, schizophrenia does not equal multiple personalities. How messed up is he?

Honestly? Not that messed up. Aside from the multiple personalities, he's fairly sane - and each of them are for the most part sane. Basically, he "matured" in five different ways growing up due to it and the way he spent pretty much an equal amount of time in each personality every day - so now there's five very different personalities that are aware of each other coexisting in the same body - two of which are female.

Eldan
2010-06-06, 09:02 AM
The thing is: people are annoyed at insane characters for two reasons:
When they are badly played, and when they disrupt the adventure.

The first thing is obvious: if you play a "delightful quirk" to the point that it gets on everyone's nerves, it's time to stop. The second one is even more important: I've had a player who tried to run a fighter who was panicked by the thought of:
a) Weapons
b) Fighting
c) Darkness

And by scared I mean "threw up his arms, screamed like a little girl and ran away".

A thing like that just doesn't work.
So, play an insane character, but don't overdo it, and don't try to use it as an excuse to interrupt a running adventure, and you should be fine.

Reinboom
2010-06-06, 09:20 AM
I wouldn't really place someone with dissociative disorder as chaotic neutral.

Each personality can act distinctly non-chaotic. It can even be self-realized and each portion might work to keep the disorder in order (teehee).
I say this out of experience with interacting with one of my nephews who is distinctly three different personalities and one of my aunts (I do not know how she is divided, however).

It would probably be more correct to give each division its own alignment, really.

With my nephew:
He doesn't just "switch". Very distinctly, he wakes up different. His wife must ask who he is when he wakes up.
He remembers events surrounding what happened with each division, but he seems to have different goals depending on who he is. So, he can hold a job just fine.
The most startling of those, to me, is his "female mind". One of his personalities has a problem with gender identity - but lives that she can't get active treatment due to the other personalities.

I hope this feeds you some ideas. Obviously, it'll be different for your character due to be able to just... change stuff, but - this should give you a good idea on how to work this.

Choco
2010-06-06, 09:22 AM
...so now there's five very different personalities that are aware of each other coexisting in the same body - two of which are female.

Luckily Changelings can change gender (AND reproductive capabilities!) at will as part of their minor shapechange power :smalltongue:

Will each of these personalities have a different alignment?

I really don't see much of a problem, just create 5 distinct personalities, find a way to determine when they switch (or leave that up to the DM), and act to that personality.

TurtleKing
2010-06-06, 09:25 AM
For a second there I thought you had read my mind. I have created a Doppleganger Factotum that has five personalities but for different reasons. My long story short he is a secret agent that fell in love with a beautiful elven princess that broke his heart after she found out he is a Doppleganger. This lead to the first break forming the second personality. After doing another mission involving a knowledge crazed wizard forming the third personality. The fourth came from going to a monastery to try mentally heal but needs discipline to be effective. The last one involved another mission that revolved around protecting a little girl for a wealthy man where she had him play with her. Currently on Medical Leave and adventuring with the party.

I play the personalities with an associated obsession that defines them which also ends up becoming their names. Each personality is also attached to two classes. The only one not represented is the one he needs the monk.
1. Balance is the oldest/ original that has ranger/ druid play style (True Neutral).
2. Pain second oldest has barbarian/ fighter abilities and is CE.
3. Knowledge is in the middle with bard/ wizard and NG.
4. Order is fourth in line with cleric/ paladin and LG.
5. Toys- manipulates people- is the youngest with rogue/ sorcerer and NE.

I also play them where few people know I am crazy. The party I am in does not know I am crazy (characters don't but players do).

Probably best to play a class that could fit any of the personalities, and/or give the personalities something to focus on kinda like obsessions to help define them out if plan on playing with each personality extensively.

Looking at some of the OP I change my characters personalities when he wakes up and if something stressful.

Also one thing that could be done is turn your mind into a dungeon. I am setting this up with my DM so has to put my mind back together again. Your situation is different so I don't know how you could do this. More on this later.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-06, 09:38 AM
I wouldn't really place someone with dissociative disorder as chaotic neutral.

Each personality can act distinctly non-chaotic. It can even be self-realized and each portion might work to keep the disorder in order (teehee).
I say this out of experience with interacting with one of my nephews who is distinctly three different personalities and one of my aunts (I do not know how she is divided, however).

It would probably be more correct to give each division its own alignment, really.

With my nephew:
He doesn't just "switch". Very distinctly, he wakes up different. His wife must ask who he is when he wakes up.
He remembers events surrounding what happened with each division, but he seems to have different goals depending on who he is. So, he can hold a job just fine.
The most startling of those, to me, is his "female mind". One of his personalities has a problem with gender identity - but lives that she can't get active treatment due to the other personalities.

I hope this feeds you some ideas. Obviously, it'll be different for your character due to be able to just... change stuff, but - this should give you a good idea on how to work this.

On alignment: the Changeling personality (the original) is the one that's Chaotic Neutral. There's a CE (Female Razorclaw Shifter), a N (Human Male), a CG (Dwarf Male), and an NG/LG (Aerenal Elf Female). I'm just hesitant to label them as such as the DM might get annoyed and think I'm trying to avoid taking alignment shifting penalties - which won't matter so much to a Sorcerer/Recaster, really, but the idea's there.

On nephew: That was pretty much the way I had the character envisioned as being played, only that the shifts occur throughout the day to relieve the mental pressure of one or another of the personalities wanting its "turn", with all of them having the same memories (just different perspectives).

I'm mostly just worried about pulling it off well. There'll be times where he'll be shifting rapidly mid-sentence as all five "voices" chime in if it's about something they all have the same opinion on or all want to say the same thing, or times when one comes to the fore over the other because they think they can handle the situation better.

Thanks for the advice so far, guys.

TurtleKing
2010-06-06, 09:51 AM
No problem plus you mind keeping in touch so we can compare notes to see how best to pull it off. Also gameplay wise my DM had where I don't get the racial charm immunity, and I get some negatives to Concentration. I also have it where if you one personality is endangering the character then the others could step in and take over.

hamishspence
2010-06-06, 10:20 AM
Maybe Call of Cthulhu players can provide advice?

A big part of CoC, is the PCs slowly descending into insanity. And they will probably have several kinds of insanity, before they finally reach SAN 0 and have to be retired.

Riffington
2010-06-06, 11:40 AM
You want to be careful of a few things.
1. Make sure your DM wants you to play a character with a severe illness like this (particularly when it can be annoying for the other players)
2. Make sure dissociative identity disorder exists in the countries your character grew up in. Whether one can develop this disorder depends greatly on whether it culturally exists in your area, and whether the people helping you to cope with your underlying illness encourage you to manifest it through dissociative identity disorder or through something else.
3. Given the fact that the manifestation is culturally determined, you need to ask your DM how dissociative identity disorder manifests in your game world (if at all). For instance, when the disease first began to manifest on Earth, it would manifest with two personalities; the sufferer (or her psychologist) could often control which one would be dominant. After a couple centuries, the manifestation began to change: now one can have many personalities, and one has much less control over them. Currently they should all have the same alignment; perhaps this would not be true in your gamesetting though.

Maerok
2010-06-06, 11:50 AM
Luckily Changelings can change gender (AND reproductive capabilities!) at will as part of their minor shapechange power :smalltongue:

Will each of these personalities have a different alignment?

That would be very interesting. The changeling could have some natural form for each identity.

Escheton
2010-06-06, 12:08 PM
Tried the same with a fey'ri. It's difficult not to go overboard and indeed be silly. You will notice you are doing this when your party sells your ass while you are in an alcohol induced coma. So it all tends to work out.

tiercel
2010-06-06, 01:49 PM
I agree with the gist of the comments so far, which is -- you just have to be extra careful that your character's "twist" doesn't disrupt the party/game.

Will the act of shifting between personalities, itself, disrupt the game? (I.e. will it be too much for the DM/other players to keep a track of... will the conceit get tiresome for them... will roleplaying a version of insanity push any player's discomfort buttons?)

And... will all the personalities be viable party members? If any of the personalities are someone the party wouldn't take into its ranks, then every time your character winds up shifting into that personality you will be creating a potential problem for the gaming group. (CE is a red flag for me, moreso than even 2e CN; assuming that this is a cooperative game in the traditional, non-PvP sense, evil is always problematic in the party, CE especially.)

WarKitty
2010-06-06, 01:55 PM
Having played with a character like this, the accusations of metagaming/avoiding alignment penalties go down significantly if you determine randomly which one you are at any specific time. Assign each one a number and roll the dice.

TurtleKing
2010-06-06, 02:34 PM
The op is right such as roll a d10 where each personality takes up two numbers. So far they have yet to meet Pain my CE personality.:smallwink:

Shademan
2010-06-06, 02:34 PM
why do a madman have to be chaotic neutral. You can totally play a lawful good paladin who is totally MESSED up in his head. not only sleeping in trees to avoid the fluffy spidercrabs but also randomly slaps his companions to get the same creatures off them. heck, he can even have split personalities, all of which are the same alignment, but think of it as batman in the Batman brave and the bold episode when he is split into three.
Scientific and analyctical batman
slacker batman
and mean bruiser batman
they were VERY different but of same alignment I would argue.