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randomhero00
2010-06-06, 03:42 PM
How does the sun and moon rise and work on a flat plane such as in Exalted? Also unclear how it works in DnD as I don't recall if they've ever said if the world was round or flat. In other words, if you travel to the edge of creation are you closer to the sun when it sets? Can you travel to the sun? If you're on a flat plane what are the over all dimensions of the universe? Etc.

Drascin
2010-06-06, 03:47 PM
Well, from what I have heard, the sun, as in the thing that gives light, in Exalted, is some kind of chariot/dirigible named the Daystar. Its captain is supposed to be Sol, the sun god and general top dog of the setting's gods, but since he's busy playing Xbox his "lieutenant" pilots it day to day. So, as for how it rises and moves around the sky - it does in more or less the same way a plane would :smallwink:. So yes, you can travel to it. Heck, you could board it if you wanted. This is not altogether a smart idea, mind, but it's possible nonetheless.

TheCountAlucard
2010-06-06, 03:48 PM
How does the sun and moon rise and work on a flat plane such as in Exalted? Also unclear how it works in DnD as I don't recall if they've ever said if the world was round or flat. In other words, if you travel to the edge of creation are you closer to the sun when it sets? Can you travel to the sun? If you're on a flat plane what are the over all dimensions of the universe? Etc.Well, in Exalted, the sun and moon are actually artifact vehicles. Every day, the sun travels from the East over to the West, and then disappears Elsewhere only to pop back over to the East again in the morning. Also, since the sky gods tend to smite things that get too high up, you probably won't get close enough to the sun to do anything meaningful.

EDIT: Blasted ninjas!

Tengu_temp
2010-06-06, 03:52 PM
Well, from what I have heard, the sun, as in the thing that gives light, in Exalted, is some kind of chariot/dirigible named the Daystar.

I always imagined Daystar to be a giant, really awesome airship with a really bitchin' theme song playing aboard. Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms-fY90TEHE).

randomhero00
2010-06-06, 04:00 PM
Where does it disappear to? Wouldn't it go into the wyld/chaos? If it goes off the edge. I didn't think anything with form could survive there.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 04:03 PM
Where does it disappear to? Wouldn't it go into the wyld/chaos? If it goes off the edge. I didn't think anything with form could survive there.

Elsewhere. It goes Elsewhere, and then stays there for the night, then teleports back to the other side in the morning.

Also, the Incarnae can be in more than one place - Sol can totally captain the Daystar while also being somewhere else. After all, he was designed to captain the Daystar as well as patrol the borders of Creation, at the same time.

Reynard
2010-06-06, 04:03 PM
It goes Elsewhere. In-Canon hammerspace, basically.

Now, I'm envisioning a pirate-themed campaign that starts in the Wast on little wooden boats, but eventually ends with a huge fleet of sky pirate ships boarding the Sun itself.

EDIT: Same-minute Yozi-servant ninja.

Tengu_temp
2010-06-06, 04:04 PM
It disappears into Hammerspace Elsewhere.

EDIT: Damn Sidereals!

Mr.Bookworm
2010-06-06, 04:05 PM
Where does it disappear to? Wouldn't it go into the wyld/chaos? If it goes off the edge. I didn't think anything with form could survive there.

Elsewhere, is well, Elsewhere, an alternate dimension where literally nothing ever happens, and has nothing (matter, life, etc.) native to it.

The Exalted mostly use it to store stuff in.

If you're curious, the Ink Monkey's actually describe the Daystar in a four-part post here (http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/blogs/freelancers/archive/2010/05/19/ink-monkeys-vol-13-the-daystar-part-i.aspx).

EDIT: Thrice-damned ninjas!

TheCountAlucard
2010-06-06, 04:07 PM
...and then disappears Elsewhere...Man, you guys got ninja'd hard. :smalltongue:

Jair Barik
2010-06-06, 04:24 PM
Fantasy settings rarely obey real world physics. The commonly held view by civilisation for some time was that the sun revolved around the earth, if they also believed the world was flat then clearly the night was caused by the sun going beneath it. Pratchett spoofs this no end with his turtle riding elephant held discworld (also known as the discworld or disc) with the best case being when all of an Egyptian styled sun Gods suddenly become manifested in physical form leading to a great football match in the sky as Giant scarab beetles and Chariot riding loonies try and keep possession of the sun.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-06, 04:27 PM
Elsewhere, is well, Elsewhere, an alternate dimension where literally nothing ever happens, and has nothing (matter, life, etc.) native to it.

The Exalted mostly use it to store stuff in.

If you're curious, the Ink Monkey's actually describe the Daystar in a four-part post here (http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/blogs/freelancers/archive/2010/05/19/ink-monkeys-vol-13-the-daystar-part-i.aspx).

EDIT: Thrice-damned ninjas!

1000 Aggravated damage. That is all.:smalleek:

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 04:36 PM
Fantasy settings rarely obey real world physics. The commonly held view by civilisation for some time was that the sun revolved around the earth, if they also believed the world was flat then clearly the night was caused by the sun going beneath it. Pratchett spoofs this no end with his turtle riding elephant held discworld (also known as the discworld or disc) with the best case being when all of an Egyptian styled sun Gods suddenly become manifested in physical form leading to a great football match in the sky as Giant scarab beetles and Chariot riding loonies try and keep possession of the sun.

No sane person has ever thought the Earth was flat.

Drascin
2010-06-06, 04:39 PM
1000 Aggravated damage. That is all.:smalleek:

That's nothing. Anyone can make big numbers. The actual hard and awe-inspiring part was that, unlike basically everything in the actual manuals, those columns managed to make the Unconquered Sun sound actually awesome. Now there's a feat.


I always imagined Daystar to be a giant, really awesome airship with a really bitchin' theme song playing aboard. Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms-fY90TEHE).

For some reason, I can't really nimagine it as anything other than a really fancy dirigible. I'm not even sure why. I think it may be just my love of zeppelins.

Mr.Bookworm
2010-06-06, 04:45 PM
1000 Aggravated damage. That is all.:smalleek:

Does he actually state that in the main text? It seems like the Daystar's guns would have similar effects to the Five-Metal Shrike's gun, and basically be plot-powered.

Reynard
2010-06-06, 04:46 PM
For some reason, I can't really nimagine it as anything other than a really fancy dirigible. I'm not even sure why. I think it may be just my love of zeppelins.

And covered in light bulbs? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abkIIypRWv4)

The Glyphstone
2010-06-06, 05:09 PM
Does he actually state that in the main text? It seems like the Daystar's guns would have similar effects to the Five-Metal Shrike's gun, and basically be plot-powered.

I don't think he's statted the guns yet...it was an offhand mention made in the Comments section by the author.

Terraoblivion
2010-06-06, 05:21 PM
That is not true, Yuki Akuma. No learned person who has done the observations and the math or heard or read others do those things has thought the Earth was flat. Lots of entirely sane people without the benefit of systematic observation and knowledge did think it, especially before math became advanced enough to really allow for the calculations necessary. This is largely in prehistory, as even the Sumerians knew enough math to do the proper calculations, though i don't know if they did.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 05:35 PM
That is not true, Yuki Akuma. No learned person who has done the observations and the math or heard or read others do those things has thought the Earth was flat. Lots of entirely sane people without the benefit of systematic observation and knowledge did think it, especially before math became advanced enough to really allow for the calculations necessary. This is largely in prehistory, as even the Sumerians knew enough math to do the proper calculations, though i don't know if they did.

No, it's true, I just class anyone who doesn't possess the math skills required as 'insane'.

:smallwink:

Jair Barik
2010-06-06, 05:42 PM
And those who possess higher maths skills still consider those who lack their own mathmatical expertise to be mad whilst those who sit beneath the people with the highest mathmatical skill consider them to be insane for learning a skill to a degree much greater than is strictly necessary. :smallwink:

Terraoblivion
2010-06-06, 05:55 PM
So people who had the misfortune to be born in prehistory were all insane as opposed to just ignorant? Harsh. :smalltongue:

In any case physics in Exalted are not quite like in the real world. For one thing, in the real world they don't hinge on having bureaucrats fill out paperwork regulating the proper functioning of natural phenomena.

Tengu_temp
2010-06-06, 05:58 PM
And in real lfie there are no spiders that make sure the whole world functions as it should and slightly change reality to your advantage if you do something cool enough to impress them.

Really, that's the explanation for the stunt mechanic.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 06:00 PM
And in real lfie there are no spiders that make sure the whole world functions as it should and slightly change reality to your advantage if you do something cool enough to impress them.

Really, that's the explanation for the stunt mechanic.

And it is awesome.

I love the Pattern Spiders. Their mother totally needs to birth a new batch so the current ones can take a break.

Coidzor
2010-06-06, 07:49 PM
D&D assumes a planet like we would understand it when the rules don't contradict real world physics, except when the setting specifies that it's something other than a planet. In response to that aside way back.

Sanguine
2010-06-06, 08:20 PM
Everyone keeps saying it goes Elsewhere but don't the Ink Monkeys posts say Pure Chaos.

randomhero00
2010-06-06, 08:59 PM
Ok, well that explains exalted, but I wonder how it would work (seasons, cycles and all) if you had a flat plane and you didn't want to use exalted's many-gods-version. I'm thinking maybe the star could move horizontally back and forth, so fast and far that its light dims to that of a pin point of light at night. It would change the normal cycles a bit but would work mostly.

The Rose Dragon
2010-06-06, 09:03 PM
Seasons work because there is an entire division in Yu-Shan devoted to making them work (colloquially known as Bureau of Seasons, similar to Bureaus of Destiny, Humanity, Heaven and Nature).

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-06, 09:14 PM
Seasons work because there is an entire division in Yu-Shan devoted to making them work (colloquially known as Bureau of Seasons, similar to Bureaus of Destiny, Humanity, Heaven and Nature).

In other words: magic.

Jokasti
2010-06-06, 09:31 PM
This is not the site you are looking for... (http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/)

randomhero00
2010-06-06, 10:00 PM
This is not the site you are looking for... (http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/)

I don't get that website...is it satire?

Jokasti
2010-06-06, 10:01 PM
No. That's the worst part.

randomhero00
2010-06-06, 10:33 PM
No. That's the worst part.

....wow



.....



....

Coidzor
2010-06-06, 10:35 PM
So what's the CR on a Giantitp Exalted thread? Because I do believe the man needs some XP for this kill.

Jokasti
2010-06-06, 10:47 PM
Not that high unfortunately.
And yeah, I'm close to leveling.

The Demented One
2010-06-06, 10:51 PM
Everyone keeps saying it goes Elsewhere but don't the Ink Monkeys posts say Pure Chaos.
Not quite! The Daystar rises and sets at the Elemental Poles. The Poles are at the border between Creation and Pure Chaos. Spatially, they're overlapped by the Deep Wyld, but they aren't actually in the Wyld. There's a bizarre spatial tesseract going on. Once the Daystar sets into the Western Pole, it disappears into Elsewhere for the night, before reappearing in the Eastern Pole at morning.

herrhauptmann
2010-06-06, 10:52 PM
Discworld as stated, is a flatland.
The sun rises on one side of the turtle (the disc is on the back of 4 elephants, which walk in a big circle on the turtle), and sets on the other side.
Regions near the rim of the world are quite close to the rim, and so are generally tropical in nature. Regions near the center, the hub, are far from the sun which has to rise very high above the hub in its orbit, so those are your regions with winters that take up half the year.

But the fact that the world spins means you get 8 seasons in a given year, 2 summers, 2 winters, etc etc. At the same time, as the world spins, the sun rises and sets in a slightly different spot each year. So north, south, east and west have little meaning. Instead people use hubwards, rimwards, and clockwise and counterclockwise (widdershins and deosil).

Yuki, the math was done thousands of years ago that the earth was round, just like the concept of the earth revolving around the sun was proposed thousands of years ago. (A well in alexandria on solstice has no shadow at noon, a well 90 miles north has a shadow of a few inches at noon. Do some trig, and you can calculate the radius of the earth). But it was a difficult concept to prove, after all, no ships that left europe going west ever made it around to China/Japan. So everyone assumed they fell off the edge of the world.
It didn't help either concept that a large bureaucracy had a vested interest in saying both were wrong for over a thousand years.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-07, 09:36 AM
The 'east-west' directions on Discworld are called Turnwise and Widdershins.

TricksyAndFalse
2010-06-07, 09:53 AM
Ok, well that explains exalted, but I wonder how it would work (seasons, cycles and all) if you had a flat plane and you didn't want to use exalted's many-gods-version. I'm thinking maybe the star could move horizontally back and forth, so fast and far that its light dims to that of a pin point of light at night. It would change the normal cycles a bit but would work mostly.

Maybe the sun you see from this flat world isn't the same one each day. Maybe there are two great titans or serpents. One stands on the east edge of the world and belches up a sun each morning. On the west edge, the other swallows the sun at dusk. During winter, the sun is smaller or weaker, so the flat world is less warm. During summer, the sun is stronger or bigger.

The world ends epicly when the western serpent is too full to swallow any more suns.