PDA

View Full Version : [PEACH] Breath Master (A Dragonfire Adept version of Mystic Theurge)



Ramza00
2010-06-08, 02:04 PM
(Comments are in italics)

Pretty much I am trying to create a mystic theurge type class for the Dragonfire Adept. I want it to work with Dragonfire Adept/Arcane, Dragonfire Adept/Divine, and Dragonfire Adept/Psionics. I want it to be stronger than a traditional mystic theurge which usually falls behind in the power curve due to being up to 3 levels behind. Because of this I also added some class features called Dragonbreath Energies that boost your power but limited times per day.

The Dragonbreath Energies are new abilities unique to the class, add a small power boost but not a massive one (for they are limited number of day). Dragonbreath Energies which had the additional benefit of making the class not feel like it had dead levels even though technically you don't have dead levels for it is dual advancement. You gain a number of Dragonbreath Energies charges equal to your class level*2. In addition each level you gain a new level in Breath Master the new Dragonbreath Energies ability you gain cost a number of charges equal to your class level, thus you are limited to using that ability only two times per day or you must use some of your weaker abilities. I also have some new custom feats that give you more Dragonbreath Energies per day (within reason).

The skill requirements are there not to disallow early entry on one side of your progression but to prevent massive early entry at something not seriously like character level 3 or 4. I don't frown on early entry, but I want the characters to have 5 levels of another class before entering.

There is no way to enter this class without at least 1 level of a spellcasting class, and 2 levels of dragonfire adept. Even with early entry tricks.


-------------------------------------------------

A Breath Master is a Dragonfire Adept that has dabbled with magic and now manipulates his breath weapon in a similar weapon that mages
manipulate spells.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks
Languages: Draconic
Spells/Powers: Need to be able to cast 2nd level arcane spells, 2nd level divine spells, or 2nd level powers
Breath Weapon: Must have a breath weapon that does 2d6 damage, 2d8 damage, 2d10 damage, 3d4 damage or greater
Breath Effects: Must know 1 Breath Effect from the Dragonfire Adept base class

Hitpoints: D8
Bab: Poor (Wizards)
Saves: Good Fort, Will, Poor Reflex
Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str, Armor Check Penalty), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str, Armor Check Penalty), Knowledge Arcana (Int), Knowledge Architecture and Engineering (Int), Knowledge History (Int), Knowledge Local (Int), Knowledge Nature (Int), Knowledge Nobility and Royalty (Int), Knowledge Psionics (Int), Knowledge Religion (Int), Knowledge The Planes (Int), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha) .

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting / Manifesting | Invocations / Breath Weapon / Breath Effect
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Dragonbreath Energies (Damage Enahncement) | +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Dragonbreath Energies (Reduce Energy Resistance) | +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
3rd | +1 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Dragonbreath Energies (Heighten Breath)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
4th | +2 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Dragonbreath Energies (Quicken Breath)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
5th | +2 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Dragonbreath Energies (Charge Breath)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
6th | +3 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Dragonbreath Energies (False Image Breath)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
7th | +3 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Dragonbreath Energies (Superior Energy Blast)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
8th | +4 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Dragonbreath Energies (Enlarge Blast)) | +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
9th | +4 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Dragonbreath Energies (Breath Weapon Doppelgangers)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
10th | +5 | +7 | +3 | + | Dragonbreath Energies (Negative Energy Blast)| +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class
[/table]


Spellcasting/Manifesting: At every level of the Breath Master prestige class you gain new spells/powers per day and an increase in your caster level/manifester level as if you had also gained a level in your spellcasting/manifesting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. It you had more than one spellcasting/manifesting class before becoming a breath master, you must decided at each level which class you are applying this benefit too.

Invocations: At each level, you gain new invocations known and an increase in caster level as if you had also gained
a level in an invocation-using class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one
invocation-using class before becoming a breath master, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining caster level and invocations known.

Breath Weapon: At each Breath Master level treat your breath weapon as if you had gain an additional level in Dragonfire Adept.

Breath Effects: Your Breath Master and Dragonfire Adept levels stack in determining when you qualify for additional breath effects.

Dragonbreath Energies. Based off your studies of magic you learn how to manipulate your breath weapon in similar ways that you would manipulate cosmic energy via magic/psionics. You gain a number of Dragonbreath Energy charges equal to your class level * 2. You can apply these charges on Dragonbreath Energies right before you breath your breath weapon as a swift action. Even if you are capable of more than 1 swift action per round, you may only use 1 single Dragon Breath Energies per breath weapon. You can only use a total number of Dragonbreath energies per round equal to your class level.


Damage Enhancement: Starting at Breath Master Level 1, you can sacrifice a number of Dragonbreath Energies to increase the damage of your breath weapon by 1d6*the number of sacrificed Dragonbreath Energies. This Dragonbreath Energies effect may not be combined with Discorporating Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Breath of Tiamat .
Reduce Energy Resistance: Starting at Breath Master Level 2: when you sacrifice two Dragonbreath Energies you charge your breath weapon with a debilitating aura. Any creature affected by your breath weapon besides suffering the normal effects also has his energy resistance reduced by a number equal to 5+your Breath Master class level. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Breath Master's character level. If your breath weapon also does energy damage the effects of Reduce Energy Resistance occur before you apply the damage of your breath weapon to the creature's hit point total.
Heighten Breath: Starting at Breath Master Level 3: you can sacrifice 3 Dragonbreath Energies to increase the save dc of your breath weapon by a number equal to your class level.
Quicken Breath: Starting at Breath Master Level 4: you can sacrifice 4 Dragonbreath Energies to use your breath weapon as swift action. Your breath weapon instantly goes off with no additional waiting time, instead using the swift action that it normally takes to use a Dragonbreath Energies effect
Charge Breath: Starting at Breath Master Level 5: you can sacrifice 5 Dragonbreath Energies to use the Charge Breath Effect. You concentrate for 1 standard action, building up the primal energies inside your throat. You can't use your breath weapon for 1 round. On the next round you release the energies, doubling the damage of your normal breath weapon. In addition you may add your charisma modifier as a bonus to your save dc of your breath weapon. Until you release the breath weapon the following round you may not cast any spells, psionic powers, or invocations. You can't use any class abilities, feats, spells or similar effects to shorten the duration of the concentration, furthermore you can't pass the concentration to another being (such as a psicrystal or familiar). This Dragonbreath Energies effect may not be combined with Discorporating Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Breath of Tiamat .
False Image Breath: Starting at Breath Master Level 6: you can sacrifice 6 Dragonbreath Energies to imbue your breath weapon with illusional false images. In addition to your breath weapon damage/effect, you can create false images of yourself that last a number of rounds equal to your character level. The number of images created is equal to your charisma modifier up to your class level. These images appear in the effect area of your breath weapon and are immune to the effects of your breath weapon. These false images follow the rules of the mirror image spell with one exception, they do not have to share your space and are capable of their own movement with movement speeds identical to your own. If the false images are inside your space and an enemy tries to target you, then roll randomly just as you normally would with mirror image. If the images are not in your space they are destroyed as normal if successfully attacked. Finally False Images have one additional effect that is different than a normal mirror image. You may instantly teleport to the location of one of your false images as a standard action, doing so destroys the image. At Breath Master Character level 8 you may teleport to the location of one of your false images as a move action. At Breath Master Character level 10 you may teleport to the location of one of your false images as an intermediate action.
Superior Energy Blast: Starting at Breath Master Level 7: you can sacrifice 7 Dragonbreath Energies to imbue any breath weapon with an energy descriptor with an additional effect. If a target of your breath weapon fails its reflex save it must make a fortitude save or suffer an additional effect as seen on the table for 1 round. Now if the creature is already suffering the same effect, extend the duration by 1 round.

Acid Breath Sicken Creatures
Cold Breath Blind Creatures
Electricity Breath Entangled Creatures
Fire Breath Stun Creatures
Sonic Breath Deafen Creatures
Enlarge Blast: Starting at Breath Master Level 8: you can sacrifice 8 Dragonbreath Energies to double the range of your breath weapon.
Breath Weapon Doppelgangers: Starting at Breath Master Level 9: you can sacrifice 9 Dragonbreath Energies to create Breath Weapon Doppelgangers. Instead of your breath weapon coalescing in a normal cone or line, your breath weapons vapors form into mirror image doppelgangers of yourself. These doppelgangers last a number of rounds equal to your character and the number formed your cha modifier up to your class level (thus a max of 10 unless you are in epic). These doppelgangers are immune to the effects of your breath weapon. These false images follow the rules of the mirror image spell with one exception, they do not have to share your space and are capable of their own movement with movement speeds identical to your own. If the false images are inside your space and an enemy tries to target you, then roll randomly just as you normally would with mirror image. If the images are not in your space they are destroyed as normal if successfully attacked. Finally you can cause each individual doppelganger to explode as a free action (if the doppelganger is about to be destroyed you can choose for the doppelganger to explode as a free action before the doppelganger is destroyed). When a doppelganger explodes the area surrounding the doppelganger is subject to the effects of your breath weapon. The radius of the explosion (which is based off your size) is as follows. Creatures who have already been affected by a previous doppleganger explosion only take half damage from this attack. This Dragonbreath Energies effect may not be combined with Discorporating Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Breath of Tiamat .

Fine to Tiny 5 ft
Small to Medium 10 ft
Large 15 ft
Huge 25 ft
Gargantuan 35 ft
Colossal 50 ft
Negative Energy Blast: Starting at Breath Master Level 10: you can sacrifice 10 Dragonbreath Energies to deal 2d4 negative levels in addition to your normal dragon breath. This Dragonbreath Energies effect may not be combined with Discorporating Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Breath of Tiamat .

-------------------------------------------------

Feats That you can take after entering Breath Master

Second Gut
Prerequisite: Breath Master level 1
Benefit: Add your Con modifier to the number of Dragon Breath Energies you get per day

(I need a name)
Prerequsitie: Breath Master level 1
Benefit: Add your Cha modifier to the number of Dragon Breath Energies you get per day

Breath Training:
Prerequsite: Breath Master level 1
Benefit: You gain a number of Dragon Breath Energies equal to your character level/4+1. This feat can be taken multiple times.

Improved Breath Manipulation:
Preqrequsitie: Breath Master level 1
Benefit: You gain a new form of Dragonbreath Energy. You can treat your breath weapon as if it was measure in rounds even if it normally is a standard action. Furthermore if you know any Metabreath feats, instead of increase the duration of your breath weapon recharge, you may instead reduce the number of rounds it takes to recharge on a 1 round to 1 energy ratio. As normal for any Dragonbreath Energies it still takes a swift action to activate this ability as well as you can't use more Dragonbreath Energies charges per round than your class level.

-------------------------------------------------

So in from cost/benefit standpoint of this class are. 

Benefits

Good Fort, Will
The Dragonfire Adept skill list with Disguise and Gather Information added (for I felt the dragonfire adept would naturally possess these for dragon's have slick tongues and are masters of disguise as other creatures and walking among us), this is a good skill list with 4+ skills and UMD.
Full Progression of Breath Weapon
Full Progression of Spellcasting
Dragon Breath Energies


Costs
So what are you giving up compared to a normal Dragonfire Adept

Extended Range Breath Weapon (the biggest real thing)
Delayed Breath Effects, Breath Damage, and Invocations. Your most powerful Breath Effects such as Fivefold Breath of Tiamant doesn't stack with Draongbreath Energies
Scales
Damage Reduction
Dragonkin
Most likely 2 levels behind in your Dragonfire adept casting maybe 3 levels behind.
At least 2 levels behind in your spellcasting class


Costs
So what are you giving up compared to a normal spellcaster

You are at least 2 levels behind in your spellcasting class due to the entry requirements requiring 1 breath effect
You can't take a more powerful prestige class.


Now it is possible to enter this class with only a 1 level dip in your spellcasting side, but if you do so you are 4 levels behind a normal spellcaster unless you use an fast progression class like Ur Priest or Sublime Chord. That is 2 full spell levels behind, thus you are pretty much just add versalitity to the Dragonfire Adept you aren't adding power.

So what is your opinion, what would you change?

DragoonWraith
2010-06-08, 02:09 PM
The image table is stretching the screen. Use this (quote my post to see the plaintext, copy into yours), filling out the rest of it.
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting / Manifesting | Invocations
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Dragonbreath Energies (Damage) | +1 level of existing class | +1 level of existing class[/table]

Ramza00
2010-06-08, 02:12 PM
The image table is stretching the screen. Use this (quote my post to see the plaintext, copy into yours), filling out the rest of it.
Thanks, especially for providing the source formatting. The table is currentley fixed and I edited it in the original post.

Raiki
2010-06-08, 04:06 PM
( Breath Weapon Doppelgangers: Starting at Breath Master Level 9: you can sacrifice 9 Dragonbreath Energies to create Breath Weapon Doppelgangers. Instead of your breath weapon coalescing in a normal cone or line, your breath weapons vapors form into mirror image doppelgangers of yourself. These doppelgangers last a number of rounds equal to your character and the number formed your cha modifier up to your class level (thus a max of 10 unless you are in epic). These doppelgangers are immune to the effects of your breath weapon. These false images follow the rules of the mirror image spell with one exception, they do not have to share your space and are capable of their own movement with movement speeds identical to your own. If the false images are inside your space and an enemy tries to target you, then roll randomly just as you normally would with mirror image. If the images are not in your space they are destroyed as normal if successfully attacked. Finally you can cause each individual doppelganger to explode as a free action (if the doppelganger is about to be destroyed you can choose for the doppelganger to explode as a free action before the doppelganger is destroyed). When a doppelganger explodes the area surrounding the doppelganger is subject to the effects of your breath weapon. The radius of the explosion (which is based off your size) is as follows. This Dragonbreath Energies effect may not be combined with Discorporating Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Breath of Tiamat .

Fine to Tiny 5 ft
Small to Medium 10 ft
Large 15 ft
Huge 25 ft
Gargantuan 35 ft
Colossal 50 ft

This. Rocks.

Actually, this rocks so hard that I think it might be cheating. You realize, that at 10th level, you can create your doppelgangers, have them all run at the same enemy, then make them all explode for a total of 10x your normal breath weapon damage.

That's a bit...wow...yeah.

Maybe just say that each of them only deals 1/2 your normal breath damage? That way it's still awesome, but not quite as face-exploding?

Anyway, I love the class. I've always been a big fan of the DFA, so it's good to see it getting some love.

~R~

Ramza00
2010-06-08, 04:35 PM
This. Rocks.

Actually, this rocks so hard that I think it might be cheating. You realize, that at 10th level, you can create your doppelgangers, have them all run at the same enemy, then make them all explode for a total of 10x your normal breath weapon damage.

That's a bit...wow...yeah.

Maybe just say that each of them only deals 1/2 your normal breath damage? That way it's still awesome, but not quite as face-exploding?

Anyway, I love the class. I've always been a big fan of the DFA, so it's good to see it getting some love.

~R~
Yes I know it is good, but you have to be level 14 at the earliest to get this ability. Furthermore if you really want to improve the ability you will be pumping cha instead of con, and thus your save dcs for your breath weapon will suffer.

So assuming worst case scenario
Sorcerer 1 (with precocious apprentice)/Dragonfire Adept 4/Breath Master 9
Assuming the elite array you can only get 24 cha realistically at 14th level.
Cha 15 base+3 levels+6 item=24 thus only 7 dopplegangers
Con 14 base+0 levels+4 item=18 Con or +4 modifier

7 dopplegangers * 7d6 breath weapon =49d6 damage. If you use a dragonfire centure then the damage is 56d6 if you failed your saves against all the dopplegangers. To get a total of 9 dopplegangers at level 14 you need a starting cha of 20 thus against the odds rolling an 18 and taking a +2 cha race or being old age (which reduces your con stats unless you are a dragonwraught kobold).

Save DC max realistically is 25 (assumming the elite array again)=10+7 (14 HD/2)+4 (18 Con)+2 Ability Focus+2 Reverberation (Savage Species ability focus for sonic damage, assuming Thundering Breath Weapon effect)

Monsters with CR of 10 to 12 (assumming you are fighting groups) usually have reflex saves of 10 to 14. So there is a good chance not all the blasts will hit. 25% to 50% of them will not.
---------------
Now the Breath Weapon Dopplegangers (level 9) and Negative Energy Breath (level 10) abilities are meant to be captstones and emulate 9th level spells. You will get closer to 10 dopplegangers when you can finally afford tomes but by then spellcasters are throwing out Gate, or martial adepts are doing 150 to 200 damage every single encounter.
---------------

So yes it is good, but I wanted it to be good I wanted it to be effectively a 9th level spell you can use 2 times a day to give the class a boost, but not have it be tier 1 status.

I don't want to drop the damage too much by making it half damage. Perhaps you get +2 circumstance bonus to the save of the effect for an additional doppelganger hitting you if you were already hit by one?

Thoughts? If I scale these abilities back how far should I scale them while still keeping the classes tier 2 or so.

Raiki
2010-06-08, 04:49 PM
Okay, I seem to have missed the part about the # of doppelgangers being capped by Cha mod as well as class level. That makes it a bit better I suppose, but 49d6 is still a whole lot more than any 9th level spell I've ever seen. Take, for example, Meteor Swarm. 2d6 bludgeoning and 6d6 fire damage per meteor. That's a total of 32d6 damage if you stack all 4 of them on the same person.

And you can't even get THAT until 17th level (maybe earlier if you cheese beholder mage or something).

Now take into account that most 20th level characters easily have a +10 modifier to their important abilities, and the fact that the DFA gives a total of 8d6 with this build. That's 80d6 damage. Over twice what a MS can dish out.

Not complaining, just sayin'.

~R~

Ramza00
2010-06-08, 05:06 PM
Meteor Swarm is one of those damage spells that isn't that good. Use your 9th level spells for non damage spells or use these 9th level damage spells. 7th and 8th level spells can do similar damage to meteor swarm.


Maw of Chaos does the save or be screwed and it is continuous damage
Iceberg does 20d6 damage no save and crushing damage is superior to fire damage. Furthermore unless the creature can teleport he is removed from battle for at least 1 minute.
Shapechange into a beholder and suddenly you are doing 3 saves or dies per target as free actions while still able to use your Antimagic Cone.
And this isn't counting metamagic. If you are going to use Meteor Swarm. You are going to use a rod of empower on it and do 48d6 damage instead of 32d6.

That said I am going to rethink the mechanics of Breath Weapon Dopplegangers. Maybe you take full damage for the first attack, but only half damage for the 2nd attack and so on. Or maybe the increasing save...I will figure something out.

Ramza00
2010-06-08, 06:58 PM
First post is edited. After the first doppleganger you only take half damage from subsequent dopplegangers.