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Os1ris09
2010-06-08, 04:40 PM
So I was wondering if there was a limit to the spell-like ability feats you can apply at the same time. I saw the quicken spell-like ability, empower spell-like ability, and maximize spell-like ability. I was thinking about taking all three with flaws used in my build and was wondering if I could apply all three to the same spell-like ability at the same time in the same round. Or is it a standard action to use said feats thereby limiting you to use only one in any given round.

Daremonai
2010-06-08, 06:01 PM
As I understand it, you can apply any/all metamagic feats you have, but the spell slot increases are cumulative, so a Still Silent spell will be 1+1=2 slots higher than normal.

nedz
2010-06-08, 06:43 PM
SLA's don't use slots.
From reading the sections in the MM, CArc and FAQ :-
- Each MetaSLA feat applies to one, and only one, SLA.
- They are limited by CL, so to quicken/empower a level 1 SLA you would need CL 16+.
- Since an Empowered SLA is an SLA:
You would need to take Empower SLA(Ability) and then Quicken SLA(Empower SLA(Ability)) rather than Quicken SLA(Ability) AND Empower SLA(Ability); in the latter case you would be able to Quicken OR Empower the chosen ability and not stack them.
According to CArc and the FAQ you could stack Sudden Metamagic feats, so a Sudden Quicken(Empowered SLA(Ability)) would work.

Os1ris09
2010-06-08, 06:57 PM
So in order for me to empower an eldritch blast I need to be XX level and to quicken it I need to be XX level.

BUT in order to quicken and empower the SLA I must first empower it THEN take the Quicken SLA feat with the Empower SLA.

SO the feat progression would look at thus

Maximize SLA
Empower (Maximize SLA)
Quicken (Empower(Maximize SLA))

nedz
2010-06-08, 07:29 PM
BUT in order to quicken and empower the SLA I must first empower it THEN take the Quicken SLA feat with the Empower SLA.

I believe so; however Eldritch Blast is slightly different because the level varies depending upon the shapes and essencies you apply.
So CL 16 for a Quicken SLA( Empower SLA(Eldritch Blast)) but CL 20 if you apply Eldritch Spear.
So CL 22 for a Quicken SLA( Empower SLA(Maximise SLA(Eldritch Blast))) but CL 28 if you apply Eldritch Spear.

(See the table in MM p304)

Os1ris09
2010-06-08, 07:41 PM
I believe so; however Eldritch Blast is slightly different because the level varies depending upon the shapes and essencies you apply.
So CL 16 for a Quicken SLA( Empower SLA(Eldritch Blast)) but CL 20 if you apply Eldritch Spear.
So CL 22 for a Quicken SLA( Empower SLA(Maximise SLA(Eldritch Blast))) but CL 28 if you apply Eldritch Spear.

(See the table in MM p304)

Eldritch Blast is in errata a 1st lvl spell like ability. So as soon as you hit a CL of 6 you can empower it or Maximize it. By applying that feat it doesn't increase its spell level just allows you to do X and X to it. So the only CL I theoretically need to be is above 10th. I think....

nedz
2010-06-08, 07:49 PM
Eldritch Blast is in errata a 1st lvl spell like ability. So as soon as you hit a CL of 6 you can empower it or Maximize it. By applying that feat it doesn't increase its spell level just allows you to do X and X to it. So the only CL I theoretically need to be is above 10th. I think....

Perhaps your right, the rules do seem to be a little quiet on this.

However Elritch Blast(Eldritch Spear) is a 2nd level SLA and so your CL needs to be higher. Other Shapes/Essencies also effect the spell level of Eldritch Blast.

Os1ris09
2010-06-08, 08:21 PM
That I understand. As per the errata I just encountered. The feats though don't say they increase the spell level just that you have to have a certain CL.

For example the three feats we mentioned here they are:

MAXIMIZE SPELL-LIKE ABILITY

Prerequisite: Spell-like ability at caster level 6th or higher.
An empowered maximized spell-like ability gains the benefit of each feat separately (getting the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result). For example, a fire mephitís empowered maximized scorching ray would deal 24 points of damage plus one-half of 4d6 points of damage. The spell-like ability you wish to maximize can be chosen only from those abilities that duplicate a spell of a level less than or equal to 1/2 your caster level (round down), minus 2. For a summary, see the Caster Level to Empower column in the table on page 304 of the Monster Manual.

Empower follows the same rules as maximize.

Quicken is different. The requirement is that you have to be 10th caster level and the SLA you select has to be (CL/2)-4.

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-06-08, 08:33 PM
- Since an Empowered SLA is an SLA:
You would need to take Empower SLA(Ability) and then Quicken SLA(Empower SLA(Ability)) rather than Quicken SLA(Ability) AND Empower SLA(Ability); in the latter case you would be able to Quicken OR Empower the chosen ability and not stack them.
According to CArc and the FAQ you could stack Sudden Metamagic feats, so a Sudden Quicken(Empowered SLA(Ability)) would work.
I donít believe that is the case any more than an empowered fireball would be considered different from a regular fireball. Despite the higher level slot, it is still a third level spell that can be countered with a regular fireball.

The example with the eldritch blast reinforces this notion. Even though you apply other effects that change it, itís still an eldritch blast and is available to be modified by your feat, assuming you have the appropriate caster level.

Os1ris09
2010-06-08, 08:40 PM
I donít believe that is the case any more than an empowered fireball would be considered different from a regular fireball. Despite the higher level slot, it is still a third level spell that can be countered with a regular fireball.

The example with the eldritch blast reinforces this notion. Even though you apply other effects that change it, itís still an eldritch blast and is available to be modified by your feat, assuming you have the appropriate caster level.

Which I would only have to be at CL 10 to use Maximize, Empower,Quicken-SLA on my EB correct?