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molten_dragon
2010-06-08, 06:34 PM
I'm getting bored with my warblade in one of my campaigns, and the DM is cool with me switching characters. I've never played a wizard before, and the party doesn't have a utility caster, so I'm rolling up a batman. Since I've never played a wizard, I've got some questions.

1. Is focused specialist worth it? I'm definitely going with a specialist transmuter, but I'm undecided on focused specialist. Mostly because it's easy to pick two schools to give up (evocation and enchantment), but difficult to pick a third. If you do think it's worth it, what would you suggest as a third school to give up?

2. Race suggestions? I'm thinking of going with either whisper gnome or dragonborn fire elf, anyone got anything better?

3. I'm considering taking levels in both master specialist and mage of the arcane order. I know MotAO is considered amazing, but what about master specialist, worth it? And if so for how many levels?

That's all the questions I had at the moment, but if you have any other advice I'd love to hear it.

PId6
2010-06-08, 06:40 PM
1. Focused Specialist is usually not worth it unless you have a very specific focus or you're relying on some trick that ups your school versatility a lot (Malconvoker, Shadowcraft Mage, etc). For a general utility caster like you're planning to be, it's not really worth it. The most often third dumped school is either Necromancy (lose some great debuffs), or Illusion (lose good defensive spells), but you can dump Abjuration if you've a cleric for dispels.

2. Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling, Dragonwrought Kobold, or Strongheart Halfling if you need the feat.

3. Master Specialist is awesome. It's almost pain free to take the first two levels of it (since you can't take most PrCs before 6th), and 4 levels is generally considered good, setting you up nicely for Archmage later.

Optimystik
2010-06-08, 06:42 PM
First off: Wizard Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0) (including specialist handbooks.)



1. Is focused specialist worth it? I'm definitely going with a specialist transmuter, but I'm undecided on focused specialist. Mostly because it's easy to pick two schools to give up (evocation and enchantment), but difficult to pick a third. If you do think it's worth it, what would you suggest as a third school to give up?

Whether its worth it or not depends on the books you're allowed - the more sources you have, the more easily you can cover for dropping a 3rd school. Having said that, Abjuration and Necromancy are the most common choice for 3rd drop. If you don't have a cleric, definitely keep Abjuration and drop Necromancy.


2. Race suggestions? I'm thinking of going with either whisper gnome or dragonborn fire elf, anyone got anything better?

Tons; see the handbook for details.


3. I'm considering taking levels in both master specialist and mage of the arcane order. I know MotAO is considered amazing, but what about master specialist, worth it? And if so for how many levels?

Master Specialist is worth it but it's not really all that great for Transmuters. The minor esoterica is situationally good, the other two are meh at best.

aje8
2010-06-08, 06:59 PM
Focused Specalist is essentially always worth it. If you're REALLY restricted on books then maybe not, but basically it is. You lose so little from dropping Evocation and Enchantment. Abjuration loses you Dispel Magic and not much else while Necromancy loses a lot of debuff. NEVER drop Transmutation, Conjuration or Illusion.


3. I'm considering taking levels in both master specialist and mage of the arcane order. I know MotAO is considered amazing, but what about master specialist, worth it? And if so for how many levels?

MotAO for the record, makes Focused Specalist even better. Just use Specalist slots for spell pool and call in banned spells as you need them.

Master Specalist? 3 level dip is basically always worth it as a focused specalist. This gives you Skill Focus(Spellcraft) and Greater Spell Focus(School) which nicely makes qualifing for Archmage easy, a class which is very solid for late in the build.

If you're a Conjurer, Master Specalist can still be worth it for all 10 levels. The Arcanas are better for conjuration.

Race: Lesser Tiefling gives the best stat mods, but if you need the feat go Strongheart Halfling. Gray Elf is also good if you don't have access to Lesser Tiefling and don't need the feat.

If you need the con and have dex to spare, Dragonborn of Bahuamut can be a reasonable option on top of either Lesser Tiefling or Gray Elf.

Tokiko Mima
2010-06-08, 07:02 PM
I'm getting bored with my warblade in one of my campaigns, and the DM is cool with me switching characters. I've never played a wizard before, and the party doesn't have a utility caster, so I'm rolling up a batman. Since I've never played a wizard, I've got some questions.

You have the link to the guide for that, right? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002


1. Is focused specialist worth it? I'm definitely going with a specialist transmuter, but I'm undecided on focused specialist. Mostly because it's easy to pick two schools to give up (evocation and enchantment), but difficult to pick a third. If you do think it's worth it, what would you suggest as a third school to give up?

It's a hard choice, but Necromancy, I would say. There are a lot of great necromancy spells, but every other school hurts too much to lose.

Focused specialist is a difficult ACF to take because you lose so much flexibility with dropping a third school. Do you know how available scrolls and spells books will be? If it's a low wealth campaign, then you might want to take it to maximize the strength of the spells you have.


2. Race suggestions? I'm thinking of going with either whisper gnome or dragonborn fire elf, anyone got anything better?

How much cheese? Hatching Phaerimm? :smalltongue:

The best race is still probably human or strongheart halfling, because an extra feat is massive.


3. I'm considering taking levels in both master specialist and mage of the arcane order. I know MotAO is considered amazing, but what about master specialist, worth it? And if so for how many levels?

That's all the questions I had at the moment, but if you have any other advice I'd love to hear it.

Mage of the Arcane Order is good.

Master Specialist is normally awesome, but I don't think the tricks transmuters get are worth much. Better than nothing, but still... I wouldn't plan on more than the first few levels.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-08, 07:49 PM
I'm a big proponent of Focused Specialist for both Conjuration or Transmutation. Illusion could also work for Shadowcrafting, but other than those three schools, you're losing too much. That being said, it is awesome! Losing Evocation loses you basically nothing thanks to Illusion. Enchantment is all will save or something, meaning Illusion can cover it without having to worry about mind-affecting shenanigans coming into play.

So, yeah, that's all pretty obvious, which brings us to the dreaded third school. Abjuration can largely be covered with a cleric, unless you're going to gish it up. I am however reluctant to let it go just so we can guarantee someone can dispel magic. Necromancy, despite having some pretty sweet debuffs, are largely in the form of -2 to stuffs, excluding Envernation. The fact that some of these are fort saves aren't helping them. Oddly enough, Cloudy Conjuration can cover some of that for a feat slot. Transmutation could do some similar stuffs, but they're also fort based.

TL;DR: Drop Necromancy, because the extra spells really help when you get access to new levels. Treantmonk covered this a while back.

Optimystik
2010-06-08, 07:58 PM
The party cleric can cover for your necromancy too, if he has the right domains and/or Divine Magician.

If you have no cleric, you're better off not being an FS.

dextercorvia
2010-06-08, 08:58 PM
If you are thinking focused specialist, but are unsure if it is the correct choice, consider Alacritous Cogitation. AC lets you leave a spell slot open to spontaneously cast any spell you know of that level or lower (w/casting time less than one round) as a full round action(kind of like a mini sorcerer). So you can use one of your highest level FS slots to cast a spell from any of your schools. If you like the gouda, it also allows you to take Versatile Spellcaster. FS has you trade one general slot of level X for two specialist slots of level X. This is not usually too bad a trade, however Versatile Spellcaster makes it better. VS will let you trade those back (on an as needed basis) to cast a general X+1 level spell that you know. Now if you don't want to ban 3 schools, you can do this on a Focused Diviner chassis.

Edit: Just don't use VS with heighten/sanctum/Improved Krau, etc. unless your DM is prepared for that runny kind of Camembert.

Prodan
2010-06-08, 09:01 PM
I doubt Versatile Spellcaster works like that for purely selfish and egotistical reasons.

dextercorvia
2010-06-08, 09:02 PM
I completely agree with your statement.

Wonton
2010-06-09, 01:02 AM
Just use Specalist slots for spell pool and call in banned spells as you need them.

I'm building a MotAO right now, and I'm pretty sure you can't do that... from CArc:


"When a caster calls a spell, he takes a full-round action to concentrate on his focus (which provokes attacks of opportunity). The spell appears in the casterís mind at the beginning of his next turn and can be used immediately. However, if he does not cast the called spell within a number of minutes equal to his caster level, it fades from his mind as though cast."

It's a full-round action to call the spell, and then you cast it, just as if you'd prepared it. Which means you could call a prohibited spell, but couldn't cast it. :smallannoyed:


TL;DR: Drop Necromancy, because the extra spells really help when you get access to new levels. Treantmonk covered this a while back.

That's the weird part: You get 4 spells per day at levelling up, but only learn two spells. What this means for my Wizard is that I can cast four 4th level spells per day but only know Solid Fog and Black Tentacles. Makes it seem like I'm a bit of a one-trick pony... which is the opposite of Batman.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 01:05 AM
I don't think so. Incantrix says that you can still use spells from the school you just banned, IF you already knew them and had them in your spellbook. If you couldn't cast them at all, that line wouldn't make sense.

Edit: Am I allowed to link to articles on the Wizards site that may or may not be OGL, but is still publicly posted?

Wonton
2010-06-09, 01:14 AM
I don't think so. Incantrix says that you can still use spells from the school you just banned, IF you already knew them and had them in your spellbook. If you couldn't cast them at all, that line wouldn't make sense.

Edit: Am I allowed to link to articles on the Wizards site that may or may not be OGL, but is still publicly posted?

I want to agree with you (cause that would bring my build to new levels of awesome)... but I don't think that's the way it works.

Let's see if the super-helpful, never-vague RAW has anything to say:


Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard.

What do you mean not available??? :smallfurious:
Can't learn? Can't prepare? Can't cast? *sigh*

P.S. I think you could link this, seeing as it's posted publicly and for free on the internetz (and if you don't want to, pm me the link anyway).

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 01:26 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Its a D&D excerpt. The relevant line is this

The incantatrix can never again learn spells from that prohibited school or schools. She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.

That seems to imply that if you know a prohibited spell, you can cast it. Thus, if you know a prohibited spell by that calling thing, you can cast it.

Wonton
2010-06-09, 01:30 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Its a D&D excerpt. The relevant line is this

The incantatrix can never again learn spells from that prohibited school or schools. She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.

That seems to imply that if you know a prohibited spell, you can cast it. Thus, if you know a prohibited spell by that calling thing, you can cast it.

Thing is, it also says "including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger", whereas the PHB example of specialization clearly says "she can't even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands", which makes it seem like this a different case of specialization.

Edit: Except it says "using the rules on page 54 of the Player's Handbook"... :smallsigh:

olentu
2010-06-09, 01:51 AM
Thing is, it also says "including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger", whereas the PHB example of specialization clearly says "she can't even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands", which makes it seem like this a different case of specialization.

Edit: Except it says "using the rules on page 54 of the Player's Handbook"... :smallsigh:

I believe that magic of faerun is a 3.0 book and the incantrix has been reprinted in the players guide to faerun without that language. However quite similar language does exist in the red wizard class in the DMG. However not bothering to look up the specific wording it is possible that the wording would allow for the additional abilities to count as an exception to the general rule or then again perhaps not.

Edit: And if it allows for item use then that part at least must be.

Wonton
2010-06-09, 02:08 AM
I believe that magic of faerun is a 3.0 book and the incantrix has been reprinted in the players guide to faerun without that language. However quite similar language does exist in the red wizard class in the DMG. However not bothering to look up the specific wording it is possible that the wording would allow for the additional abilities to count as an exception to the general rule or then again perhaps not.

Edit: And if it allows for item use then that part at least must be.

Reading the PGtF... it simply says that the Incantatrix chooses a school of magic as a prohibited school, so we're left to default to the PHB rules, which we've already shown are vague.


If you are thinking focused specialist, but are unsure if it is the correct choice, consider Alacritous Cogitation. AC lets you leave a spell slot open to spontaneously cast any spell you know of that level or lower (w/casting time less than one round) as a full round action(kind of like a mini sorcerer).

Also, seeing as you're essentially casting the spell spontaneously, I see no reason you couldn't spontaneously apply one of your metamagic feats to it (raising the casting time and spell slot as usual). AC says that you can cast "any arcane spell you know of the same level or lower", so you could use an open 4th level slot to cast a Stinking Cloud, and spontaneously modify it with Sculpt Spell. There is precedent for something like this, on page 88 (and again on 143) of the PHB, where it talks about a Cleric spontaneously casting an Empowered Cure Critical Wounds using a 6th-level spell slot.

YMMV, as I've already gotten a "no" from Curmudgeon in the Q&A thread on whether you can do this. I'd allow it, however. If it's allowed, the only problem is the fact that in order to metamagic a full-round action spell (as all spells cast through AC are), you'd need two full-round actions...

Endarire
2010-06-09, 02:19 AM
I recommend a summoner if you can handle the paperwork. You usually have a creature for the situation.

See also my summoner (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8142.0).

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-09, 02:30 AM
That's the weird part: You get 4 spells per day at levelling up, but only learn two spells. What this means for my Wizard is that I can cast four 4th level spells per day but only know Solid Fog and Black Tentacles. Makes it seem like I'm a bit of a one-trick pony... which is the opposite of Batman.

Then we must have very different views on Conjuration.:smalltongue: Honestly, Conjuration alone can target all three saves and AC for direct damage. Now, the initial level up will leave you with only two spells (or four with Collegiate Wizard) Looking at just the PHB fourth level Conjuration spells, I'd grab SM IV and Solid Fog for maximum versatility. Hell, some of the Summon Monster IV nets you a flying fear effect, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yethHound.htm) a stacking debuff, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/howler.htm) two different (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/snake.htm#viperSnake) grapplers, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousSpider.htm) and some battlefield control (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousSpider.htm). For hypothetical Collegiate Wizard spells, I'd throw on Greater Invisibility and Solid Fog, assuming core only for spells. Also, on another note, you should definitely have a high enough Int score to get you a bonus spell slot by 7th level, so you can still have some other schools join the party.

Basically, if you've got access to Focused Specialist, then it is reasonable to assume that you have access to at least the spells from Complete Mage, if not Spell Compendium as well, meaning that Focused Specialist Conjurer is far from being a one trick pony when new levels of spells come into play.

Wonton
2010-06-09, 02:40 AM
Then we must have very different views on Conjuration.:smalltongue: Honestly, Conjuration alone can target all three saves and AC for direct damage. Now, the initial level up will leave you with only two spells (or four with Collegiate Wizard) Looking at just the PHB fourth level Conjuration spells, I'd grab SM IV and Solid Fog for maximum versatility. Hell, some of the Summon Monster IV nets you a flying fear effect, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yethHound.htm) a stacking debuff, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/howler.htm) two different (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/snake.htm#viperSnake) grapplers, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousSpider.htm) and some battlefield control (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousSpider.htm). For hypothetical Collegiate Wizard spells, I'd throw on Greater Invisibility and Solid Fog, assuming core only for spells. Also, on another note, you should definitely have a high enough Int score to get you a bonus spell slot by 7th level, so you can still have some other schools join the party.

Basically, if you've got access to Focused Specialist, then it is reasonable to assume that you have access to at least the spells from Complete Mage, if not Spell Compendium as well, meaning that Focused Specialist Conjurer is far from being a one trick pony when new levels of spells come into play.

No, I completely agree that Conjuration is the most varied and versatile school! :smalleek:

I just meant that having only 2 spells to spend on four (you have 1-1=0 general slots, 3 specialist slots, and one (probably not two) from high Int) slots is somewhat repetitive. I guess one-trick-pony isn't the best description... it's just that I like having different spells prepared in each slot, which I can't do with Focused Specialist. I guess it's best to just compare yourself to a normal wizard who would only get ONE Solid Fog and ONE Summon Monster, whereas you get two of each.

P.S. Although, when your group consists of 6 high-powered level 7 characters, summoning CR 4 monsters is thoroughly underwhelming... considering our DM will probably be pulling out CR 9-11 just to challenge us.

olentu
2010-06-09, 03:23 AM
YMMV, as I've already gotten a "no" from Curmudgeon in the Q&A thread on whether you can do this. I'd allow it, however. If it's allowed, the only problem is the fact that in order to metamagic a full-round action spell (as all spells cast through AC are), you'd need two full-round actions...

You know I am not sure you actually asked a relevant question since as I recall the feat in question does not involve filling the slot. While I could be remembering incorrectly if I am not then any answer to the question you posed would automatically be no since the feat does not allow one to fill the empty slot.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 10:31 AM
it's just that I like having different spells prepared in each slot, which I can't do with Focused Specialist.

Gee, who woulda thought that as a Focused Specialist, you would be focusing on specializing on a few spells.

As for CR4 creatures, it is true that they are somewhat underwhelming. However, you do get Lantern Archons, and hey, free continual flame on anything you want isn't bad, and Mephits, which have a whole host of abilities, including the Earth Mephit which lets you cast a pretty much druid only spell. Plus, Fiendish Giant Praying Mantis. I do believe a gnome could ride that into battle.

Superglucose
2010-06-09, 10:44 AM
Master Specialist 10 is also great for Abjurers, since you get a competence bonus to dispel checks.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-09, 04:41 PM
No, I completely agree that Conjuration is the most varied and versatile school! :smalleek:

I just meant that having only 2 spells to spend on four (you have 1-1=0 general slots, 3 specialist slots, and one (probably not two) from high Int) slots is somewhat repetitive. I guess one-trick-pony isn't the best description... it's just that I like having different spells prepared in each slot, which I can't do with Focused Specialist. I guess it's best to just compare yourself to a normal wizard who would only get ONE Solid Fog and ONE Summon Monster, whereas you get two of each.

Ah, okay. I saw "one-trick pony" and kind of extrapolated stuffs from there. So, yeah, good to see that we're now on the same page.



P.S. Although, when your group consists of 6 high-powered level 7 characters, summoning CR 4 monsters is thoroughly underwhelming... considering our DM will probably be pulling out CR 9-11 just to challenge us.

If you're going to focus on summoning monsters, Malconvoker hits the board, but I find my summons to be less of the "RAWR! SMASH!" type and more of the "Free SLAs!" type as the spell levels increase either way. Sure, I still like busting out a gigantic centipede every now and again, but that's more due to Malconvoker than the spell itself. For these hypothetical CRs 9-11, I'd probably drop down either the large spider for medium creatures or smaller for its webbing, the viper to pin down larger beasts or incompetent spellcasters, and the howler for low AC foes. Obviously, not too many of these guys would last very long without some focus on it, but at least having the option is nice.

Wonton
2010-06-10, 01:11 AM
You know I am not sure you actually asked a relevant question since as I recall the feat in question does not involve filling the slot. While I could be remembering incorrectly if I am not then any answer to the question you posed would automatically be no since the feat does not allow one to fill the empty slot.

So you're saying the difference is in the fact that instead of filling the empty slot, you're just "using" it to cast a spell of that level or lower? That might be a valid point.


Gee, who woulda thought that as a Focused Specialist, you would be focusing on specializing on a few spells.

As a Focused Specialist, you focus on one school. I was just pointing out that I'd rather have Orb of Fire, Solid Fog, Summon Monster IV, and Dimension Door prepared than Solid Fog x2 and Summon Monster IV x2.


Master Specialist 10 is also great for Abjurers, since you get a competence bonus to dispel checks.

Even better for Conjurers (seriously, what isn't?)... you basically get a 170,000 magic item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicQuicken).

For Valor
2010-06-10, 01:15 AM
If you're playing a true wizard, don't go focused specialist. Get every spell ever and use divination for all of your battles to know which spells to prepare. You can nuke with Love's Pain to kill Dragons from outside of their lairs or cast cloudkill to kill off a bunch of mooks before a battle starts, while invisible and flying.

The best wizards keep their options open.

Superglucose
2010-06-10, 01:26 AM
Even better for Conjurers (seriously, what isn't?)... you basically get a 170,000 magic item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicQuicken).
Oh, yes. Master Conjurer 10 is insanely good. I was merely pointing out that Master Abjurer definitely belongs on the list of "very good abilities." That whole, "No such thing as a partial save" is pretty damn good. That whole "AMF is now a range: touch spell" is pretty "OMGWTFLOLBBQ now I have an OFFENSIVE AMF!"

I'd also like to point out that the wording of "Extraordinary Spell Aim" makes it oobs and gobs better than Mastery of Shaping. It doesn't exclude squares, it excludes creatures. That is, I Spell Aim a reached (or arcane reach) AMF onto BBEG. Then he comes up and tries to grapple me. I then can cast DD away, or use my freedom of movement to say "lol no." Congrats, BBEG gets all of his magic items and buffs negated for the fight... as long as I can make a touch attack. Or I just put it on myself and go stand next to him for the fight. Or I exclude the fighter and stick it on the fighter and lol as buffed fighter (or buffed cleric) gets to take on unbuffed, no item BBEG. Or I just Widen it and fill the whole area with it and become the only caster by default. Or I get custom items of +Spellcraft and exclude my whole party.

That capstone is arguably better than the ability of the Conjurer since there is no way that I'm aware of to duplicate its effects via items, but I won't argue that.

TL/DR: In my (inexpert) opinion, Master Abjurer 10 is the best, followed by Master Conjurer 10. Yes, Conjurer10 ability is probably better than Abjurer 10 in a vacuum (and I think it is), but the other conjurer abilities suck (weee double duration on summons :smallannoyed:) while the other Abjurer abilities range from "lol competence to dispel?" to "lol no such thing as "save-partial"?"

olentu
2010-06-10, 02:14 AM
So you're saying the difference is in the fact that instead of filling the empty slot, you're just "using" it to cast a spell of that level or lower? That might be a valid point.

I was certainly suggesting the possibility depending on if I am remembering some other rules correctly but now that I think about it if there is some language that says that applying a metamagic feat makes the spell into a different spell then it does not really matter since wizards can quite possibly not ever cast spells modified by metamagic feats what so ever.

This is because there is no metamagic spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list i.e while fireball is on the sorcerer/wizard spell list there is no "empowered fireball" on the list. And so while they can prepare the spells modified by the metamagic feats as specifically allowed in the metamagic feats section they can not ever cast them as they are not on the list they cast from.

However given the implications of metamagic feats changing spells into new spells I would say that clear rules references would be needed both due to the the restriction of some classes from using any metamagic and more importantly because without sufficient rules to back it up the rules are being extended and that is unacceptable to me.

Endarire
2010-06-10, 03:32 AM
From a RP view, keeping all your options is good. From a likely metagame view, you don't need those things. Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy are fairly easy to sack if it means you can summon more SLA chuckers and cannon fodder, or use more crowd control.

I played a generalist Wizard for about 10 levels before I realized I probably cast 2 Enchantment or Necromancy spells, even in an undead-heavy campaign. The DM let us respec and I went Transmuter. My joy increased. Now I could use the spells I liked more often! Yay!

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-10, 03:33 AM
If you're playing a true wizard, don't go focused specialist. Get every spell ever and use divination for all of your battles to know which spells to prepare. You can nuke with Love's Pain to kill Dragons from outside of their lairs or cast cloudkill to kill off a bunch of mooks before a battle starts, while invisible and flying.

The best wizards keep their options open.

In theory, maybe. However, in practice, the time it would take to get +yes amounts of spells, you may have well just pulled out the side-ways 8 for everything. Thus, in practice, it's easier to drop two terribad schools and one moderately redundant school to get enough firepower in a day to prevent the 15 minute work schedule.

Prodan
2010-06-10, 07:47 AM
As a Focused Specialist, you focus on one school. I was just pointing out that I'd rather have Orb of Fire, Solid Fog, Summon Monster IV, and Dimension Door prepared than Solid Fog x2 and Summon Monster IV x2.


Aren't those all Conjuration spells, which you can prepare as a Focused Specialist?

Greenish
2010-06-10, 08:29 AM
Aren't those all Conjuration spells, which you can prepare as a Focused Specialist?Well played, dear sir, well played.

Hague
2010-06-10, 09:09 AM
I always enjoy a good necromancer build. Granted, most people don't like necromancy (the inability to affect most unliving things is very irritating) but there are uses. The wealth of feats in Libris Mortis being one of the reasons: Corpsecrafter (+4 str and +2 hp/HD for all your undead) and the corpse of a Large creature typically making one nice tank for your party. Even with small HD undead you get lots of nice attacks. Fell Animate is nice if you nuke your own mindless undead that are affected by

Generally, I wouldn't recommend playing a Necromancer without Libris Mortis. Master Specialist Necromancer gets some decent abilities too, especially the Death Ward esoterica and fast-healing 10 for nearby undead. Especially if they are affected by the Destruction Retribution feat. You nail your enemies with fireball, if they die, they get reanimated but if they don't, your undead are bound to die anyway and they then at least one will explode, dealing negative energy damage and healing the rest of your undead. Any creatures killed by the Fell Animate fireball replace any undead killed by your fireball.

molten_dragon
2010-06-10, 07:07 PM
Okay, I've pretty much got the character built, I'm just having trouble picking out some good magic items (this is always a problem when I play spellcasters). I've got about 30,000 gp to spend, and can't spend more than 10k on a single item. Any suggestions?

Greenish
2010-06-10, 07:12 PM
Okay, I've pretty much got the character built, I'm just having trouble picking out some good magic items (this is always a problem when I play spellcasters). I've got about 30,000 gp to spend, and can't spend more than 10k on a single item. Any suggestions?Metamagic rods, attribute boosters, a few scrolls/wands/eternal wands of situational stuff. Masterwork skill boosting items for the skills you want, if available.

Kalrik
2010-06-10, 07:27 PM
I am perfectly aware of how broken clerics and wizards can be, but is this really a problem? Yes, if you munch the classes, they will break. If you don't, they will be powerful, but doesn't anyone just have fun anymore?

It isn't the class, or even the spells; imbalance happens because of the players. I have players that are perfectly happy being the beat stick fighter because the person playing the wizard doesn't try to outshine everything.

Greenish
2010-06-10, 07:30 PM
I am perfectly aware of how broken clerics and wizards can be, but is this really a problem? Yes, if you munch the classes, they will break. If you don't, they will be powerful, but doesn't anyone just have fun anymore?

It isn't the class, or even the spells; imbalance happens because of the players. I have players that are perfectly happy being the beat stick fighter because the person playing the wizard doesn't try to outshine everything.Um, what are you replying to? I fear you might've posted in the wrong thread.

Kalrik
2010-06-10, 10:33 PM
Probably correct

Wonton
2010-06-13, 12:23 PM
Aren't those all Conjuration spells, which you can prepare as a Focused Specialist?

...Did you actually read my posts, or did you just hope to get that in and seem really clever? :smallannoyed:

What I was saying was that upon hitting an odd-numbered level, you add 2 spells to your spellbook, while getting 4 spell slots of the new level. So, what I'd like to prepare is Orb of Fire, DD, Summon Monster, and Solid Fog. What I have to prepare instead (not wanting to spend 400gp/spell) is Summon Monster X2 and Orb of Fire X2.


Okay, I've pretty much got the character built, I'm just having trouble picking out some good magic items (this is always a problem when I play spellcasters). I've got about 30,000 gp to spend, and can't spend more than 10k on a single item. Any suggestions?

If the MIC is allowed, try and get the Circlet of Mages (5K). It takes up your head slot, so you might have to persuade your DM to let you get your Headband of Intellect +2 in a different slot. Or use the rules in the MIC to combine the two items.


Ring of Silent Spells (2,000 - MIC) - Free Silent Spell a couple of times per day
Bracers of Arcane Freedom (2,300 - MIC) - Free Still Spell a couple of times per day
Rod of Sculpt, Lesser (5,400 in CArc, 3,000 in MIC) - Possibly the best metamagic rod for a Conjurer
Healing Belt (750 - MIC) - Get this item. Don't argue.
Tome of Wordly Memory (1,500 - MIC) - If you're your party's Knowledge monkey (as you probably are), this is a good cheap item
Pearls of Power I (1,000 - DMG) - Prepare different 1st-level spells in every slot, and if you ever need more than one of them, use these
Artificer's Monocle (1,500 - MIC) - If you're casting Identify often, get your party to invest in one of these
Empowered Spellshard (Varies, MIC) - If there's a low-level damage spell you cast often, this is great
Headband of Conscious Effort (2,000 - MIC) - Your Concentration check should be MUCH higher than your Fort save. And Fort saves can be the nastiest ones
Gloves of Fortunate Striking (2,000 - MIC) - If you cast at least a couple of rays every day, a good investment
Hellcat Gauntlets (3,200 - MIC) - Interesting effect, and not too expensive
Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage (500 - MIC) - I love cheap magic items (can you tell?). For 500, this lets you cast a summon monster as a standard action

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-13, 12:52 PM
...Did you actually read my posts, or did you just hope to get that in and seem really clever? :smallannoyed:

What I was saying was that upon hitting an odd-numbered level, you add 2 spells to your spellbook, while getting 4 spell slots of the new level. So, what I'd like to prepare is Orb of Fire, DD, Summon Monster, and Solid Fog. What I have to prepare instead (not wanting to spend 400gp/spell) is Summon Monster X2 and Orb of Fire X2.

Well, that's a problem with any wizard not wanting to spend money when he hits an odd level of wizard casting, being a Focused Specialist has very little effect on that, other than offering moar.