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View Full Version : Best PvP character, SRD only



WarKitty
2010-06-09, 12:31 PM
Yeah, that basically says it. I'm going to have an optional no-holds-barred gladiatorial combat arena at the end of my campaign. For PC's, I have 2 fighter/barbarians, a sorcerer, a bard, a ranger, and a rogue.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-09, 12:36 PM
The most powerful... probably some kind of wizard/loremaster/archmage or if you go a more gish-y aproach a fighter 1/Wiz 4/Eldritch night X or a Sorcadin (though not sure on the efficiency of the last in SRD only environment)

aivanther
2010-06-09, 12:38 PM
Wizard, Druid, or Cleric

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 01:12 PM
Is the question: "Which SRD character is the best for PvP?" Well, what's the level? What kinds of restrictions are there in place?

That said, if DMG is allowed, Wizard 5/Red Wizard of Thay 10/Archmage 5 (at whichever point in his career you are fighting at; it's pretty awesome from level 1 onwards) probably wins; RWoT is pretty broken. If only SRD, it'll come down to Wizard 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5, Cleric ~13/Thaumaturgist 5/Hierophant 2 & Druid 20, in their respective points in their career. A Psion or Psion/Slayer can also make a run for it with some moderate banning in place.

Out of the listed characters, Sorc should do fine except the lack of ability to basically prepare a different spell in each slot really hurts them in arena settings since they can't prepare for everything as easily as other casters (well, they are much more reliant on Scrolls and Wands).

WarKitty
2010-06-09, 01:29 PM
Is the question: "Which SRD character is the best for PvP?" Well, what's the level? What kinds of restrictions are there in place?

That said, if DMG is allowed, Wizard 5/Red Wizard of Thay 10/Archmage 5 (at whichever point in his career you are fighting at; it's pretty awesome from level 1 onwards) probably wins; RWoT is pretty broken. If only SRD, it'll come down to Wizard 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5, Cleric ~13/Thaumaturgist 5/Hierophant 2 & Druid 20, in their respective points in their career. A Psion or Psion/Slayer can also make a run for it with some moderate banning in place.

Out of the listed characters, Sorc should do fine except the lack of ability to basically prepare a different spell in each slot really hurts them in arena settings since they can't prepare for everything as easily as other casters (well, they are much more reliant on Scrolls and Wands).

Ok, it's a fairly high level, we're probably talking ~15 or so. Psionics is out. Magic items are fairly commonplace in my campaign, so presume the non-casters have access to more magic items than normal. My players are actually gestalted, so the opponent would be gestalt as well.

As a side note, do me a favor and spell out acronyms? I don't get what a lot of them are.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 01:47 PM
Ok, it's a fairly high level, we're probably talking ~15 or so. Psionics is out. Magic items are fairly commonplace in my campaign, so presume the non-casters have access to more magic items than normal. My players are actually gestalted, so the opponent would be gestalt as well.

As a side note, do me a favor and spell out acronyms? I don't get what a lot of them are.

Well, I'm not changing my guesses; if you want Gestalt, you'll prolly end up with Druid//Monk/X (could be Barbarian, Cleric, or even some Fighter-levels), Wizard//Whatever (Rogue, Fighter, probably some combination there-of) and Cleric//Monk/X. Casters can get just as much mileage from magic items as non-casters, though they don't of course have as much need for them. Spells still rule supreme.

As for the acronyms...umm:
SRD = System Reference Document
PvP = Player vs. Player
DMG = Dungeon Master's Guide
RWoT = Red Wizard of Thay (I figured that would be clear in the context)
Sorc = Sorcerer

That's all I used, so...there.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 01:53 PM
Gestalt? Wizard/Druid 15 with Natural Spell. A full casting T-rex is probably a bit much.

Edit: Just realized, if it hits 16, you can be a full casting T-rex with a T-rex buddy. If you allow breeding, you can be a full casting T-rex, with a T-rex buddy and T-rex kiddies.

WarKitty
2010-06-09, 02:46 PM
Gestalt? Wizard/Druid 15 with Natural Spell. A full casting T-rex is probably a bit much.

Edit: Just realized, if it hits 16, you can be a full casting T-rex with a T-rex buddy. If you allow breeding, you can be a full casting T-rex, with a T-rex buddy and T-rex kiddies.

That is disturbing. Must use.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-09, 02:50 PM
Too bad d20 Modern isn't part of the SRD.
Or you could have Full Casting Tyrannosaurs. . . .in F-14s !! (http://yfrog.com/9dtyrannosaurusinf14sj)

SilveryCord
2010-06-09, 02:56 PM
I'd say Psion, actually, assuming you're using some kind of banlist for things that are obviously broken (Planar Binding, infinite PP, etc), because psion can break the action economy much more easily than wizards can, and in SRD-only wizards lack the support of things like Nerveskitter and Celerity.

Flickerdart
2010-06-09, 02:58 PM
I'd say Psion, actually, assuming you're using some kind of banlist for things that are obviously broken (Planar Binding, infinite PP, etc), because psion can break the action economy much more easily than wizards can, and in SRD-only wizards lack the support of things like Nerveskitter and Celerity.


Psionics is out.

:smallsigh:

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-09, 03:02 PM
Druid 15//Wizard 5/LoreMaster 9/Archmage 1. Full casting, self healing and you're better at melee than any melee class on the SRD.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 03:03 PM
That is disturbing. Must use.

Ya know, in a rather silly bit of silly, I do believe that they would be Half t-rex children. Kinda like how a dragon's kid with anything but a dragon is a half dragon, even if its polymorphed into a human or whatever. Hmm, this has potential, I'll be back in a bit.

Rothen
2010-06-09, 03:08 PM
Edit: Just realized, if it hits 16, you can be a full casting T-rex with a T-rex buddy. If you allow breeding, you can be a full casting T-rex, with a T-rex buddy and T-rex kiddies.

What is this, I don't even...

I'm not sure how necessary a second casting class progression is, though. Isn't Wizard 15 already at that level of craziness where you don't need to worry about having no good options prepared?

In other words, you already have so many spells to cast, why bother with even more? Maybe something that complements the class with better saves/hd? Just throwing it out there, I'm not big on gestalt optimization.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 03:14 PM
Wizards have a LOT of very nice buffs, especially at 15. With share spells allowing you to share with your T-rex, you can have two massively buffed T-rexes, massive being every buff from the wizard book and the druid book, having one T-rex flying around biting from the air, while the other flies around and drops T-rex shaped fireballs. Not to mention that with Mirror Image, you can have anywhere from 4-20ish I think T-rexes flying around, not counting your mini Half T-rex children, who all took many levels of Druid/Wizard.

At this point, its not so much the fact that there are better methods, its arriving in the arena to find out your facing Two Flying T-rex, one with serious magical power.

Draz74
2010-06-09, 03:18 PM
+1 vote for Druid 15//Monk 2/something 13. The best "something" is probably a big mishmash of multiclass dips in melee-friendly classes. Like

Druid 15//Ex-Monk 2/Ranger 6/Fighter 2/Rogue 3/Barbarian 2

Wizards are marginally more powerful, theoretically, than Druids or Clerics by Level 15 ... but that's "very theoretically." Chances are, your arena opponents are neither knowledgeable enough nor ruthless enough to use the dirty tricks that make the Wizard win out in such situations. Druids, by contrast, are pretty easy to use in very powerful ways.

Ranger, naturally, becomes a much more competitive option if you know what race your opponent will be.

Rothen
2010-06-09, 03:24 PM
At this point, its not so much the fact that there are better methods, its arriving in the arena to find out your facing Two Flying T-rex, one with serious magical power.


its arriving in the arena to find out your facing Two Flying T-rex,


Flying T-rex

http://jkbaker.com/gallery/d/538-2/tyrannosaurs-in-f-14s.jpg

I see your point.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-09, 03:24 PM
Druid 20// Monk 20 is not bad on Gestalt, kung fu Dinosaurs FTW!!!

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 03:27 PM
I see your point.

Well, you have access to wizard illusions. You could make a solid image of one for your T-rex to fly around in.

Gnaeus
2010-06-09, 03:28 PM
Wizards have a LOT of very nice buffs, especially at 15. With share spells allowing you to share with your T-rex, you can have two massively buffed T-rexes, massive being every buff from the wizard book and the druid book, having one T-rex flying around biting from the air, while the other flies around and drops T-rex shaped fireballs. Not to mention that with Mirror Image, you can have anywhere from 4-20ish I think T-rexes flying around, not counting your mini Half T-rex children, who all took many levels of Druid/Wizard.

At this point, its not so much the fact that there are better methods, its arriving in the arena to find out your facing Two Flying T-rex, one with serious magical power.

Companion spellbond isn't in SRD. When it flies 10 feet away from you you have an unbuffed, falling T-Rex. Unless you cast all the buffs twice, once on yourself, once on your pet.

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-09, 03:28 PM
Druid 20// Monk 20 is not bad on Gestalt, kung fu Dinosaurs FTW!!!

Druid 20//Monk 2/Cleric 18 is better (Wis SAD ftw!). Hell Monk 2/Fighter 18 is better, never take more than 2 levels of Monk.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 03:29 PM
Druid 20// Monk 20 is not bad on Gestalt, kung fu Dinosaurs FTW!!!

It's much better with ~18 levels less of Monk though. The first two are fine. Arguably you could go as high as 6, but generally...meh, I'd rather take e.g. Cleric's buffs or some Rogueism or even just full BAB and Rage+Feats+Cha to everything+skillz in some kind of an unholy general mishmash. And Hierophant is really good in the off-side in Gestalt.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 03:31 PM
falling T-Rex.

I fail to see the problem with dropping a T-rex on someone.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-09, 03:31 PM
In my defense I said better, not the BEST.

Rothen
2010-06-09, 03:34 PM
Alternatively, Wizard//Pixie4/X might be worth it, too. The awesome bit about gestalt is that LA isn't always a bad thing.

Eldariel
2010-06-09, 03:35 PM
Alternatively, Wizard//Pixie4/X might be worth it, too. The awesome bit about gestalt is that LA isn't always a bad thing.

If LA is allowed on one side, all of the casters are probably best served with a Template-stack. Templates with HD tend to be quite powerful and casters tend to have everything they need from the single class. Indeed, you may want to consider an unorthodox race even; Nymph, Treant, various Outsiders, Centaur, et co. all have various uses and are playable on such a high level.

Pixie's best abilities, constant GInvis & Flight, aren't nearly as powerful on these levels anymore when detection is abundantly available to everyone, while stuff like Unearthly Grace and unnaturally powerful stat arrays are still as good as ever. Note that Unearthly Grace (and Su abilities in general) play nicely with Polymorph & Wildshape, so it's worth keeping a lookout for them if not Scrolling Shapechange.

Amphetryon
2010-06-09, 03:59 PM
Skeletal Minion variant Necromancer 7 (ban Evocation and Enchantment)/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5 could be fun in that setup.

Beorn080
2010-06-09, 04:19 PM
Skeletal Minion variant Necromancer 7 (ban Evocation and Enchantment)/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5 could be fun in that setup.

Hmm, do that with the druid, get skeletal T-rex. A few castings of Summon Natures Ally VII for more T-rex fun. Maybe burn an eight and get a handful at once. I may have to work on this as a bit of opt fu. How many T-rex can you get on a battlefield at 15 in gestalt.

Connington
2010-06-09, 05:36 PM
Gestalt eh? I'd go with a CW Samurai/Commoner.

While everyone is helpless with laughter, steal their sheets and reduce all of their ability scores to 3 with a pencil.

WarKitty
2010-06-09, 05:38 PM
Gestalt eh? I'd go with a CW Samurai/Commoner.

While everyone is helpless with laughter, steal their sheets and reduce all of their ability scores to 3 with a pencil.

It's an online game...maybe a computer virus?

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-09, 05:45 PM
It's an online game...maybe a computer virus?

You still have the chance other people are freezed in terror.

"No.. no... it could be a trap.. it MUST be a trap.. AAARRGGH"

Mushroom Ninja
2010-06-09, 07:15 PM
Gestalt eh? I'd go with a CW Samurai/Commoner.


If my memory serves, the Cube did pretty well for itself with less.

sofawall
2010-06-09, 07:21 PM
If my memory serves, the Cube did pretty well for itself with less.

Commoner//Commoner would work.

Gadora
2010-06-09, 10:39 PM
Commoner//Commoner would work.

I'm pretty sure gestalt rules don't allow that. How about Commoner//Aristocrat.

PId6
2010-06-09, 10:59 PM
Commoner//Commoner would work.
Yo dawg?

Gralamin
2010-06-09, 11:06 PM
It's an online game...maybe a computer virus?

Pray no one is using Linux.