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Mandar
2010-06-10, 01:27 PM
Hey, has anyone noticed this or is it just me? Our dungeoning group consists of all guys and it can get pretty rowdy every now an then. But when a female NPC appears all the attention goes to the DM :smallwink: . Any similar stories?

Manny-

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-10, 01:40 PM
I use a lot of female NPC.. in my gameworld they are common.

And just to add, they are not always hot chicks. So, I'd say.. no, it does not happens.

I noticed that those rat bastards of my players are more likely to pay attention if the NPC has something clearly important for the story, or, even more, seems very powerful and so dangerous for them. :smallwink:

Eloi
2010-06-10, 01:43 PM
My characters are typically female and don't attract any attention for it. I could only wish my players were that enthralled by my NPC's, but alas, no. :smalltongue:

Os1ris09
2010-06-10, 01:44 PM
My characters are typically female and don't attract any attention for it. I could only wish my players were that enthralled by my NPC's, but alas, no. :smalltongue:

You just have to entice them.... You know use that femine charm to enchant them into a bed..... LOL ROFL :smallbiggrin:

Cubey
2010-06-10, 01:51 PM
You just have to entice them.... You know use that femine charm to enchant them into a bed..... LOL ROFL :smallbiggrin:

Because turning all female characters the players meet into huge sluts is such a great idea.

Unless of course your name is Frank Miller. All bets are off then.

Kalirren
2010-06-10, 01:51 PM
That's funny. In my longstanding all-guy gaming group, whenever a female NPC shows up, nobody hits on her. Ever. And whenever that female NPC hits on one of the PCs, the other guys all basically tap their feet and hum, waiting for the plot to resume.

The funny part was that when a girl showed up to play, her character (a 16-year-old boy) was definitely hitting on the pirate princess NPC. Go figure.

gbprime
2010-06-10, 01:54 PM
Well, NPCs are there to be reacted to. And if the PC wants to ask one out on a date, why shouldn't they? (Or drive them away with crude behavior, whichever.)

If your PC's are being a problem with it, just make the NPC older. Then they'll react to their position and skill instead of just their charisma score. Powerful female mage could just as easily look like Maggie Smith, for example. Problem solved. :smalltongue:

Lin Bayaseda
2010-06-10, 01:55 PM
My group is 66.67% female, so attention usually goes to the DM when a male NPC appears. Female NPCs are dismissed with a 'meh'.

Stompy
2010-06-10, 01:56 PM
And just to add, they are not always hot chicks. So, I'd say.. no, it does not happens.

I have gamed with people that would always ask if the chicks were hot. :smallconfused:

Also, every NPC chick I have run into is a sorcerer with a lot of levels over our party. This could be a coincidence of Diablo II, but I can't confirm that.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 01:58 PM
I was a little bit disturbed by one of my players' fondness for attempting to woo a vaguely attractive female NPC every three or four sessions in a game where my significant other was one of the other players. Not that he had the hots for me, but still, weird.

I was far more amused by his poor luck in always choosing the NPCs I had marked as asexual, severely taken, or lesbian. :smallamused:

Yora
2010-06-10, 02:00 PM
We once had a rather large group with only one girl, who played the only female PC.
From the very first day, she always had to be the one to distract the guards.

We kind of hoped the gm would fall for the inversed effect. :smallbiggrin:

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:00 PM
Because turning all female characters the players meet into huge sluts is such a great idea.

Unless of course your name is Frank Miller. All bets are off then.

Person: I got this great comic I want you to adapt. Okay, the main hero is-
Miller: A drug addict.
Person: And the main heroine, her female sidekick, and the female police officer are-
Miller: Whoreswhorewhores.
Person: Any other ideas?
Millers: Needs more grit, honestly.



That's funny. In my longstanding all-guy gaming group, whenever a female NPC shows up, nobody hits on her. Ever. And whenever that female NPC hits on one of the PCs, the other guys all basically tap their feet and hum, waiting for the plot to resume.

The funny part was that when a girl showed up to play, her character (a 16-year-old boy) was definitely hitting on the pirate princess NPC. Go figure.
Maybe your typical girl player cares more about romantic NPC interaction than your typical male player?

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 02:02 PM
Person: I got this great comic I want you to adapt. Okay, the main hero is-
Miller: A drug addict.
Person: And the main heroine, her female sidekick, and the female police officer are-
Miller: Whoreswhorewhores.
Person: Any other ideas?
Millers: Needs more grit, honestly.

http://shortpacked.com/comics/2006-02-07-whores.png

WarKitty
2010-06-10, 02:02 PM
With my group, we hit on any and all NPC's. Sometimes regardless of the gender of the PC or NPC. Or the race of the NPC. Or whether the NPC qualifies as "living." Hitting on ghouls...good times.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:11 PM
I was a little bit disturbed by one of my players' fondness for attempting to woo a vaguely attractive female NPC every three or four sessions in a game where my significant other was one of the other players. Not that he had the hots for me, but still, weird.

I was far more amused by his poor luck in always choosing the NPCs I had marked as asexual, severely taken, or lesbian. :smallamused:

You should have one be all three. (Married homoromantic asexual).

@AstralFire: Ha, thats classic.


With my group, we hit on any and all NPC's. Sometimes regardless of the gender of the PC or NPC. Or the race of the NPC. Or whether the NPC qualifies as "living." Hitting on ghouls...good times.
Do! Not! Want! Good god what is wrong with your players?

WarKitty
2010-06-10, 02:20 PM
Do! Not! Want! Good god what is wrong with your players?

That was actually one where I was a player. Although the hitting on ghouls was not me. I stick to telling stories about my liasons with the dryads. :smallbiggrin:

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 02:23 PM
Actually, it's more just flat-out memorable NPCs that get reactions in my group. For instance, there's one reoccurring NPC in some of my games that is basically a stealthy, gun-toting death assassin. Think the kind of guy that's skilled enough to be a PL 12 in Mutants and Masterminds without any powers (so, Deathstroke without the smugness and Deadpool without the funny). My players KNOW to sit up when they hear me use the "ka-klak" sound effect, because that means someone just failed a spot check, and he just snuck up on them.

On the other hand, I've thrown in romantic interests, gender role reversals, and just regular female NPCs before as well. I admit, they're not the majority of NPCs or even half, but they aren't exactly uncommon with my group. They get different reactions. Matter of fact, half my players wouldn't care in the Pirates vs. Ninjas campaign about an NPCs gender if there wasn't a move that specifically does more damage to males.

Really. It boils down to how much you put into an NPC. Not to sound mean, but I think the reason people sit up sometimes when there's a female NPC isn't necessarily because of sexual preference, but because people tend to default to male NPCs and players subconsciously know that female NPCs have a higher likelihood of being important to the events or the story. Furthermore, if a prepared NPC is female and you don't use them a lot, it's an indication that you put a lot of effort into that NPC and have a specific use in mind for them.

WarKitty
2010-06-10, 02:31 PM
I suspect it depends on the makeup of the group as well. Our groups tend to be 50-50 or so, and we have female PC's fairly regularly (not always with female players).

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 02:34 PM
I suspect it depends on the makeup of the group as well. Our groups tend to be 50-50 or so, and we have female PC's fairly regularly (not always with female players).

Actually, amusingly enough, one of the few times I did a female NPC as a love interest, one of the players that ended up as one of the major suitors was a teenage boy played by the only female player in that group. Of course, there was a female PC played by a guy that hated her guts because of personal vanity issues. It certainly was interesting, to say the least.

Xallace
2010-06-10, 02:37 PM
We have one guy who hits on anything even possibly female. And he'll roll with pretty much anything, so there's no real stopping him so much as... covering for him.

There was one time, long ago, when I decided to play a changeling for my first time playing with a group. I happened to show up to the party as female. Took 10 minutes to be made very, very clear to me why this group was all male. The pigs.

Then there was the time I wanted to play a young, female, martial-arts prodigy from a peasant family in a distant land. The DM said I could, under the condition that every fight included a Dark Tentacles from MMII, for "potential entertainment." :smallannoyed: I played a viking that game instead.

First time I DMed (well, first-and-a-half) I invited a friend to play, the first lady PC in our group! While helping her make a character, one of the other players slipped ropes, manacles, and a whip into her inventory with "hopes for later."

Although, I do love my buddy Kaleb. A drow priestess appears before him in the midst of combat, unclad, and he is asked for his action:
"Well, I'm still shooting at the guy behind me, but I'm definitely paying attention to the bodaciousness before me. I should probably take a penalty on the attack. -6? Sounds about right."

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 02:39 PM
Xallace, I love you, but I can tell you mostly game with a younger crowd. :smallredface:

Xallace
2010-06-10, 02:40 PM
...yeah. It's true.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:43 PM
We have one guy who hits on anything even possibly female. And he'll roll with pretty much anything, so there's no real stopping him so much as... covering for him.

There was one time, long ago, when I decided to play a changeling for my first time playing with a group. I happened to show up to the party as female. Took 10 minutes to be made very, very clear to me why this group was all male. The pigs.

Then there was the time I wanted to play a young, female, martial-arts prodigy from a peasant family in a distant land. The DM said I could, under the condition that every fight included a Dark Tentacles from MMII, for "potential entertainment." :smallannoyed: I played a viking that game instead.

First time I DMed (well, first-and-a-half) I invited a friend to play, the first lady PC in our group! While helping her make a character, one of the other players slipped ropes, manacles, and a whip into her inventory with "hopes for later."

Although, I do love my buddy Kaleb. A drow priestess appears before him in the midst of combat, unclad, and he is asked for his action:
"Well, I'm still shooting at the guy behind me, but I'm definitely paying attention to the bodaciousness before me. I should probably take a penalty on the attack. -6? Sounds about right."

That kind of behavior is deplorable but not unexpected, unfortunately.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 02:43 PM
The last one was actually funny, though.

Optimystik
2010-06-10, 02:44 PM
How has nobody linked this yet? (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951)

Axolotl
2010-06-10, 02:45 PM
I have gamed with people that would always ask if the chicks were hot. :smallconfused:That's standard operating procedure for my group.

Of course if the DM says yes we respond with a well choreographed chorus of Banishment, Turn Undead and disbeliveing the illusion.

Generally we treat all the NPCs the same regardless of species or gender.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 02:45 PM
Xallace, I love you, but I can tell you mostly game with a younger crowd. :smallredface:

Duh. Older crowds ALWAYS wine and dine first.

Actually, when players are that predictable, you really have 3 choices:
1. Try to get them to change with a subtle hand and a serious and mature discussion about why its a bit inappropriate.

2. Ignore it and roll your eyes.

3. Abuse their predictable responses when you're a GM to make them suffer. Can you say GUARANTEED plot hook? Less planning for contingencies for you since the player will effectively railroad his own group.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 02:46 PM
How has nobody linked this yet? (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951)

I may have to start doing that. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z95n7j79Dw)

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:47 PM
How has nobody linked this yet? (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951)

I actually do think they have an STD section in BoEF, probably the best way to handle situations like that. And, I still get a laugh out of that comic. :smallsmile:

Xallace
2010-06-10, 02:49 PM
I actually do think they have an STD section in BoEF,

They do! It includes Mummy Rot!


EeeeaarAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH-

Axolotl
2010-06-10, 02:51 PM
I actually do think they have an STD section in BoEF, Really? The writer must have had a very different definition of "Erotic Fantasy" than most people.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:52 PM
They do! It includes Mummy Rot!


EeeeaarAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH-

And Asteral's Doom (everyone has A'sd's?), Engorgment, Burning Release....
Not that I actually have the book or anything. *shifty eyes*

Xallace
2010-06-10, 02:55 PM
And Asteral's Doom (everyone has A'sd's?), Engorgment, Burning Release....
Not that I actually have the book or anything. *shifty eyes*

Not to mention Lycanthropy. Lamest way to become a werewolf, or best lady-of-the-night-based apocalypse ever?

Eloi
2010-06-10, 02:56 PM
Not to mention Lycanthropy. Lamest way to become a werewolf, or best lady-of-the-night-based apocalypse ever?

No its the best way to become a werewolf.

1. Have sex.
2. Get new werewolf powers.
3. ???
4. Profit!

Nidogg
2010-06-10, 02:59 PM
We have one guy who hits on anything even possibly female. And he'll roll with pretty much anything, so there's no real stopping him so much as... covering for him.
Euphamisim five! But seriously, I usually play the female Pc in my all male group, cos no-one else will, And the (most often) DM did once include a Drie Bear "encounter" with my elan psion.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 03:01 PM
.
Euphamisim five! But seriously, I usually play the female Pc in my all male group, cos no-one else will, And the (most often) DM did once include a Drie Bear "encounter" with my halfling psion.


:smalleek:

...

:smalleek:

...

:eek:

Optimystik
2010-06-10, 03:04 PM
No its the best way to become a werewolf.

1. Have sex.
2. Get new werewolf powers.
3. ???
4. Profit!

But what about your budding relationship with your sparkling vampire boyfriend?

Satyr
2010-06-10, 03:06 PM
One of our Werewolf: The Apocalypse campaigns is heavily based on 1980s action series, mostly Miami Vice and the A-Team. In the campaign series contract, there is an equal opportunity sex kitten ratio - in every second session episode, a potential bedwarmer has to appear (and they are gladly delivered). But because of more female than male PCs, there is need for as many male olympic swimmers, oceanic biologists and other handsome male love interests (which are never mentioned again in any future episode)as there are bikini models, exotic dancers and the like (subtletly is overrated in this regard).
Unfortunately, I seem to be a lot better to introduce lesbians than any other characters in this specific niche, according to the internal "who gets laid most often" tab (and yes, getting laid gives XP. Again, subtlety is overrated). I am not sure, what that means.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 03:07 PM
But what about your budding relationship with your sparkling vampire boyfriend?
Much to my chargin, the well-sculpted body of a vampire is worth a lot of XP.


.
Euphamisim five! But seriously, I usually play the female Pc in my all male group, cos no-one else will, And the (most often) DM did once include a Drie Bear "encounter" with my elan psion.

Ah that reminds me of something, but what?
http://www.getlazy.net/forums/images/smilies/pedobear.png

Umael
2010-06-10, 03:07 PM
Duh. Older crowds ALWAYS wine and dine first.

Absolutely.

Although there are times to play a younger character and made a point of letting the players know that you are playing the character as young and hormonal because that happens. A lot.



Actually, when players are that predictable, you really have 3 choices:

3. Abuse their predictable responses when you're a GM to make them suffer. Can you say GUARANTEED plot hook? Less planning for contingencies for you since the player will effectively railroad his own group.

My favorite.

(Of course, the most sadistic response is almost always my favorite.)

Anyone who has read Thieves' World... well, you know what I'm talking about.

Grommen
2010-06-10, 03:09 PM
But what about your budding relationship with your sparkling vampire boyfriend?

ahhhhhhhh.... must beat the sparckles out ! Must beat the sparckles.:smallfurious:

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 03:11 PM
.
Euphamisim five! But seriously, I usually play the female Pc in my all male group, cos no-one else will, And the (most often) DM did once include a Drie Bear "encounter" with my elan psion.

Well, that's so bad. I mean, a psionic character should easily be able to deal with dire bear at most levels if she's careful. I don't know why you put encounter in quotes. You make it sound like it's unfair. Maybe it was too easy. After all, you couldn't possibly mean that he...

...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WHY!? WHY GOD WHY!?

Where's the bleach? I think I need to clean out my eyes, ears, and brain now.

Actually, seeing as I've actually read threads on the stuff in the FATAL handbook, I've seen worse before, but that's pretty messed up. That's definitely not something I'd casually mention as a minor "slight" by the DM.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 03:16 PM
How did an innocent thread about PC interactions with Female NPC's start to include:
1. BSDM references
2. Bear-rape
3. Tentacle-rape
4. Prostitution
5. Whoreswhoreswhores
6. STD's
7. Undeadophilia (Antinecrophilia, perhaps?)

Optimystik
2010-06-10, 03:17 PM
How did an innocent thread about PC interactions with Female NPC's start to include:
1. BSDM references
2. Bear-rape
3. Tentacle-rape
4. Prostitution
5. Whoreswhoreswhores
6. STD's
7. Undeadophilia (Antinecrophilia, perhaps?)

Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay

Eloi
2010-06-10, 03:18 PM
Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay

I was the first to bring up Pedo Bear, do I get points for that?

WarKitty
2010-06-10, 03:19 PM
I've also had some fun with one of our more sandboxy games playing a courtesan. Especially when teamed with the party thief...

Grommen
2010-06-10, 03:19 PM
19+4 that means I score!

Friend of mine, his favorite character, decided to sleep with two bar maids one night. Not my fault they were both succubi (ok it was but I rolled random). You have to check closer people.

Ironically the most attention my players pay to me is when I introduce something completely out of the blue and truly unnecessary. Say wile we are in the middle of a small scale war in an old abandoned city. I rolled a random encounter and it came up with a Unicorn. Everyone stopped what they were doing and looked up at me like I was smoking crack. Their like "What? We find a what? Hay can we keep it?"

Women NPC's get largely ignored. Even if they are hot.

Kalirren
2010-06-10, 03:23 PM
Maybe your typical girl player cares more about romantic NPC interaction than your typical male player?

Naw, it's just that the guys I play with all need to be hit with a romantic clue bat iRL too. In that respect she was the only -normal- one.

russdm
2010-06-10, 03:28 PM
In my humble opinion, the reaction given to female NPCs is based around maturity level and genders. A group of immature guys will probably hit on the NPC. More mature guys will not as much. Female players are very less likely to do so anyway.

Also, it really doesn't matter how hot a female npc is. I'm sure there are male players who would hit on the maggie-smith looking female wizard.

Umm, yeah. As for experiencewise myself, my players didnt care that their employer was a female. they pretty much treated her as a person.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 03:29 PM
How did an innocent thread about PC interactions with Female NPC's start to include:
1. BSDM references
2. Bear-rape
3. Tentacle-rape
4. Prostitution
5. Whoreswhoreswhores
6. STD's
7. Undeadophilia (Antinecrophilia, perhaps?)

I dunno, but I think we need to get it back on track before it gets worse.

Truth of the matter is, some groups react that way because it's an unusual and uncommon element. Like I said, most GM's, even female ones have a tendency to default to male NPCs. On top of that, if any character is slightly referential to a pop culture icon, it'll probably be a he. It's just one of those things that's ingrained in our collective psyche. Default to male.

Mind you, like I've said, that's something I've consciously tried to keep myself from doing while simultaneously not back-lashing against it (ie. Having almost all female NPCs). It can be hard to control at time.

But yeah. As weird as it is, since they're rare with most groups, female NPCs invoke a response because it's almost like a rare treasure. Something new. If you honestly want to get your players to stop reacting so heavily to it, the best way is to use it enough that it becomes common. Make them bored of it.

Of course, if you like that aspect of controlling your players. DON'T use it too often, save it as a guaranteed control mechanism. Players need to pay close attention? Throw in a female NPC.

But yeah. Regardless of gender, I tend to craft my major NPCs with backstories. It makes them interesting and immerses my players more. I'm not entirely good with city maps and world layouts. So, it's my way of making the world real. Some people actually don't like that, but that's a really long and weird theory post on why players really shouldn't design their characters to be adverse to every single plot hook ever and the idea of working as a team if they want to enjoy themselves at my table.

Now, you asked for stories in your first post. Are you asking for stories where players grew instantly attentive around female NPCs or stories where I've made INTERESTING female NPCs, because you'll only get a couple of the first, but plenty of the second.

FoE
2010-06-10, 03:30 PM
When I DM, I don't tend to use a lot of female NPCs because I feel particularly dorky trying to RP women. The only females in my game are monstrous ones.

Umael
2010-06-10, 03:31 PM
How did an innocent thread about PC interactions with Female NPC's start to include:

Innocent thread?

Did you see how provocatively it was dressed?

It was totally asking for it!

...

(I'm going to go sanitize myself for making that comment. I feel, really, really, really dirty now...)

Os1ris09
2010-06-10, 03:31 PM
Because turning all female characters the players meet into huge sluts is such a great idea.

Unless of course your name is Frank Miller. All bets are off then.

I am not saying turn them ALL into sluts. Just try and have some fun with it. My DM makes us so uncomfortable with such enticements its really funny to see how the PC of that day handles the situation. I am not at all a big fan of sleeping around or drunk sex or anything of that nature in real life. So I am not advising that people do it even if it is imaginary. I am just making a joke.

russdm
2010-06-10, 03:31 PM
Yeah, roleplaying women and not making them stupid is hard for guys. I don't use them for that reason.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 03:32 PM
.
Euphamisim five! But seriously, I usually play the female Pc in my all male group, cos no-one else will, And the (most often) DM did once include a Drie Bear "encounter" with my elan psion.

Naturally, it's required by law that someone go find out exactly how well Rule 34 covers that. :smalltongue: > :smallconfused: > :smalleek:

(Pics unnessicary, thankyouverymuch.)

Xallace
2010-06-10, 03:32 PM
I was the first to bring up Pedo Bear, do I get points for that?

So it turns out my mom knows what Pedobear is. I'm... I'm really not OK with this.

And anyway, the progression is, in some ways, natural. We're talking about a game where people play for a number of reasons, but among those is acting out fantasies. And, in this topic, specifically fantasies with women by proxy of female NPCs. Some of them are bound to be awful because, hey, no consequences, right?

Some people fantasize about saving the princess. Some about being the princess. Some about polymorphing the princess into an undead tentacle monster and getting jiggy with it.

Actually, let's talk about the opposite: What about guys that get too protective of female NPCs or PCs? Like, old-school sexist chivalry way. I've seen that happen too! Including active threats and insults towards male characters who would "dare to defile such an innocent creature!" It can be just as annoying.

russdm
2010-06-10, 03:35 PM
What rule says that?

I don't know. I haven't seen players acting like that. Although I have seen male players play female characters completely wacko.

The whole polymorph the princess thing made me laugh.

But then i can imagine what be the result of mixing Cthulhu with a gelatinous cube and a drider.

Grumman
2010-06-10, 03:39 PM
Yeah, roleplaying women and not making them stupid is hard for guys. I don't use them for that reason.
I default to playing female PCs, and don't think I run into any trouble. Of course, I tend to play them the same way I play male characters.

Knaight
2010-06-10, 03:39 PM
In my humble opinion, the reaction given to female NPCs is based around maturity level and genders. A group of immature guys will probably hit on the NPC. More mature guys will not as much. Female players are very less likely to do so anyway.

Also, it really doesn't matter how hot a female npc is. I'm sure there are male players who would hit on the maggie-smith looking female wizard.

Umm, yeah. As for experiencewise myself, my players didnt care that their employer was a female. they pretty much treated her as a person.

Huh. I can honestly say I've never actually seen this, and assumed all the vague allusions had no basis in reality, and were just part of the stereotype. As for people hitting on NPCs, I've seen that twice, once played completely for humor (nobody liked the NPC in question at that point anyways, least of all the person hitting on them), and once seriously (by a female player playing a female prostitute hitting people up for information more than anything else). As for hotness, it has also been relevant a grand total of twice, one of which being a possessing spirit with body altering magic trying to produce art, and once with the aforementioned prostitute.

I would assume something like this to be the norm, and must say some of the groups mentioned in this thread seem...worrying.:smalltongue:

Dairun Cates
2010-06-10, 03:39 PM
When I DM, I don't tend to use a lot of female NPCs because I feel particularly dorky trying to RP women. The only females in my game are hags and warforged.

God... Even in my OOTS board, F.O.E.

You should give it a try. Being a GM is as much about trying something different as the players. Female NPCs are just like NPCs, they have likes, dislikes, passions, hopes, dreams, and ideas. Real difference is in mannerisms and tone, really. Sometimes a female NPC really sets the tone differently as well. Gives a different twist or perspective on an otherwise boring adventure.

Maybe because the NPC is the daughter of a Baron instead of the Baron, she can get slightly different information.

Besides, it throws in variety, and variety is the best way to keep a game from going stale. You can do love interests too, it's just a softer touch and a delicate balance, but it's wonderful when it goes right.

Amusingly enough, I let my party level once before a final boss because one of the players finally confessed the girl she (female player, male character) liked and finally gave her a real passionate kiss. I gave them just enough roleplay EXP to level.

The twink players then tried to immediately get the character laid so they could gain another 3 levels. So, a moment went from tense to awe-inspiring to awkward and humorous in about 30 seconds.


Yeah, roleplaying women and not making them stupid is hard for guys. I don't use them for that reason.

It's not hard at all. It really is just a slightly flip of perspective and thinking. Treat a female NPC with the same care and thinking you do with a male NPC.

And hey. I've done stupid male AND female NPCs. Comic relief is MORE than welcome at my table. Currently hanger-on NPC in pirates vs. ninjas is a talent female ninja that was never informed that the pirate/ninja war ended and started back up. So, basic history and culture that's obvious to everyone else is completely alien to her. It's led to some weird and fun moments.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 03:46 PM
To actually post on topic for a change, I've only been in a party where a female NPC got hit on once... and it didn't end well for the guy, as he was 1st Level and the NPC was fairly high level... and her husband happened to be within earshot.

Other than that, there simply haven't been that many female NPCs appropriate to hit on... one was a little girl (who happened to be effectively a goddess); another did happen to be around the same age as the party, but being an archmage, she was left alone... her cranky shapeshifted dragon caretaker didn't help things. Then there was another who was essentially the party's mother figure... and we were all terrified of her.

Yeah. Not much room for romance there. And back then, inconsequential NPCs didn't even blip on our radar. They just spat out their canned lines and got out of our way.

(Of course these days, depending on what character I was playing, I would probably try to hit on any dragon I came across, in the hopes of starting up a tribe of half-dragon gnolls or somesuch. :smallamused:)

russdm
2010-06-10, 03:46 PM
Well, i play Female characters the same as males. I default usually to making male NPCs more than female ones. Female NPCs usually are going to be important.

The employer the players once had was a female baroness. She give them stuff to do.

I know some people like only playing female or male characters and wont play the other type.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 03:46 PM
I will step in here to say I've seen some terrible attempts at playing men from female roleplayers. It goes both ways. X3

Eloi
2010-06-10, 03:51 PM
Well, i play Female characters the same as males. I default usually to making male NPCs more than female ones. Female NPCs usually are going to be important.

The employer the players once had was a female baroness. She give them stuff to do.

I know some people like only playing female or male characters and wont play the other type.
I'm pretty bad at playing male characters. I can't
a) Give them a significantly different tone of voice because my voice just can't get even a little deep at all for reasons that escape me.
b) I have no ready character concepts. I mean I have Mysterious Black-Robed Girl, Optimistic Cheery Comic Relief-esque person, Paladin Person w/strong inflexible morals but not unpleasant to the party for female NPCs. As for male characters, I have nothing. So if I'm improvising its almost never a male character.
c) Afraid of offending male players if I make them stupid, insane or immoral, because that implies a sexist stereotype. So they all have to be intelligent, high-moraled people with no mental problems, which is pretty boring for me to roleplay.

Quincunx
2010-06-10, 03:52 PM
There's also the option of a bunch of people old enough to know better playing pervs for the laughs.

"The Dragon looks puzzled. Something about this situation just did not jive with her. Food was supposed to flee, terrified and screaming, not hump, horny and moaning."

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:02 PM
"The Dragon looks puzzled. Something about this situation just did not jive with her. Food was supposed to flee, terrified and screaming, not hump, horny and moaning."

And that's why we have the half-dragon template.

Seriously, using an antimagic area on a dragon in the shape of a woman was how my Half-dragon character's dad got it on with her. Of course, this was rape, so once the antimagic lockdown turned off, she transformed back into a dragon, then made him suffer for over a week before finally eating him.

Interestingly, my character is the son of one of my player's characters from a DnD game I ran. It was just so absurdly stupid, unique, and evil that it made an awesome backstory. We did, however, tell that player she wasn't allowed to make evil characters anymore. (Yes, that's right, this story is relevant to the topic of the forum)

Prime32
2010-06-10, 04:04 PM
b) I have no ready character concepts. I mean I have Mysterious Black-Robed Girl, Optimistic Cheery Comic Relief-esque person, Paladin Person w/strong inflexible morals but not unpleasant to the party for female NPCs. As for male characters, I have nothing. So if I'm improvising its almost never a male character.Wait, you've never seen a male character who wears black robes, is optimistic and cheery, or has strong morals? :smallconfused: Just come up with a female concept and flip the gender. In 99% of cases it will work.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 04:05 PM
Seriously, using an antimagic area on a dragon in the shape of a woman was how my Half-dragon character's dad got it on with her.

:smallconfused: Wouldn't that just cause the dragon to resume its natural form?

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:06 PM
Wait, you've never seen a male character who wears black robes, is optimistic and cheery, or has strong morals? :smallconfused: Just come up with a female concept and flip the gender.

I have to agree. generally playing either gender the same way will result in an interesting character. even upright feminists can be gender flipped to make misogynists. Guys won't be offended by your playing a male character with some quirk - they'll see it as another NPC, not a personal dig

Eloi
2010-06-10, 04:06 PM
And that's why we have the half-dragon template.

Seriously, using an antimagic area on a dragon in the shape of a woman was how my Half-dragon character's dad got it on with her. Of course, this was rape, so once the antimagic lockdown turned off, she transformed back into a dragon, then made him suffer for over a week before finally eating him.

I'm adding that to my list.
9. Dragons raping and murdering people


Interestingly, my character is the son of one of my player's characters from a DnD game I ran. It was just so absurdly stupid, unique, and evil that it made an awesome backstory. We did, however, tell that player she wasn't allowed to make evil characters anymore. (Yes, that's right, this story is relevant to the topic of the forum)

I wouldn't have allowed the backstory as it violates my "Avoidance of Mary Sue Backstory" guidelines:
1) Do not include rape in any way shape or form. Its a clumsy way to indicate seriousness or need for sympathy to an audiance, and probably will not be handled in a sensitive realisitc manner.
2) Do not kill of your characters parents. And if you do decide to kill, kill only one.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 04:07 PM
I'm adding that to my list.
9. Dragons raping and murdering people

Raping, and then being murdered by, a dragon, actually.

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:07 PM
:smallconfused: Wouldn't that just cause the dragon to resume its natural form?

the campaign had all dragons in different forms - they had a natural humanoid form and a natural dragon form. Changing between them was a supernatural ability, but maintaining a form was natural

Eloi
2010-06-10, 04:08 PM
I have to agree. generally playing either gender the same way will result in an interesting character. even upright feminists can be gender flipped to make misogynists. Guys won't be offended by your playing a male character with some quirk - they'll see it as another NPC, not a personal dig

Probably true.
'suppose you're all right, I just have a hard time imagining those character archetypes on a guy. I'll try too role-play more guy characters when next session comes. (I think that's... Sunday, perhaps?) So thanks for the advice. :smallsmile:

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:11 PM
1) Do not include rape in any way shape or form. Its a clumsy way to indicate seriousness or need for sympathy to an audiance, and probably will not be handled in a sensitive realisitc manner.
2) Do not kill of your characters parents. And if you do decide to kill, kill only one.

Actually an interesting character rather than a Mary Sue. He was over the fact that he didn't have a dad by the end of the backstory description, and his black dragon mother was actually a sunny, cheery person who was an uplifting, pleasant influence on the entire campaign, despite the occassional village she'd eat. It was actually a really nice character, and I wouldn't mind playing him again, as the others also liked him.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 04:11 PM
Raping, and then being murdered by, a dragon, actually.

9. Someone being raped and then being subsequently murdered by a dragon.

Happy now?

PersonMan
2010-06-10, 04:14 PM
9. Someone being raped and then being subsequently murdered by a dragon.

Happy now?

No.

It would be:
9. Someone raping, and then being murdered by, a dragon.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 04:15 PM
Probably true.
'suppose you're all right, I just have a hard time imagining those character archetypes on a guy. I'll try too role-play more guy characters when next session comes. (I think that's... Sunday, perhaps?) So thanks for the advice. :smallsmile:

The first step to roleplaying the opposite gender well is to roleplay them exactly as you would your own gender.
The second step is to realize that that is all wrong and that there are hundreds of little differences - both in those who follow their gender's usual little quirks and those who avoid them - to take into account.

By no means is the first step bad; it is a necessary step. The only way you can really realize all the differences and implement them differently is to forget that they exist, and then try to find them again. Slowly. Subtly.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 04:18 PM
The first step to roleplaying the opposite gender well is to roleplay them exactly as you would your own gender.
The second step is to realize that that is all wrong and that there are hundreds of little differences - both in those who follow their gender's usual little quirks and those who avoid them - to take into account.

By no means is the first step bad; it is a necessary step. The only way you can really realize all the differences and implement them differently is to forget that they exist, and then try to find them again. Slowly. Subtly.
Sound complicated and difficult to do, but I'll try.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 04:20 PM
It really is, and it takes years of practice, and I'm sure I'm still far from perfect. Observing people in society helps a lot.

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:21 PM
It really is, and it takes years of practice, and I'm sure I'm still far from perfect. Observing people in society helps a lot.

yeah, but it's definitely a road worth traveling if you want to be a good actor (or in this case, player/DM)

Umael
2010-06-10, 04:21 PM
I wouldn't have allowed the backstory as it violates my "Avoidance of Mary Sue Backstory" guidelines:
1) Do not include rape in any way shape or form. Its a clumsy way to indicate seriousness or need for sympathy to an audiance, and probably will not be handled in a sensitive realisitc manner.
2) Do not kill of your characters parents. And if you do decide to kill, kill only one.

*blink*
*blink*
*blink*

Wow.

I'm... kinda offended. Like "feather-to-the-nose" offended.

Is it okay with you if I pat you on the head and consider you a little confused?

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-10, 04:22 PM
That's funny. In my longstanding all-guy gaming group, whenever a female NPC shows up, nobody hits on her. Ever. And whenever that female NPC hits on one of the PCs, the other guys all basically tap their feet and hum, waiting for the plot to resume.

The funny part was that when a girl showed up to play, her character (a 16-year-old boy) was definitely hitting on the pirate princess NPC. Go figure.

Its a comfort zone, they just aren't comfortable roleplaying that. I've had a few characters over the years actually get married. One case being a High Elf to a Drow.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 04:22 PM
*blink*
*blink*
*blink*

Wow.

I'm... kinda offended. Like "feather-to-the-nose" offended.

Is it okay with you if I pat you on the head and consider you a little confused?

Oh, sorry for offending you, sure you can consider me confused if you want.

The Glyphstone
2010-06-10, 04:31 PM
2) Do not kill of your characters parents. And if you do decide to kill, kill only one.

I always kill off my characters' parents, though not always violently. Sometimes disease, or an accident, or just happy old age. Dead parents are harder for DMs to use in poorly contrived pathos-based plots against you. For the same reason, I never include siblings or mention old love interests.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 04:32 PM
I always kill off my characters' parents, though not always violently. Sometimes disease, or an accident, or just happy old age. Dead parents are harder for DMs to use in poorly contrived pathos-based plots against you. For the same reason, I never include siblings or mention old love interests.

Because if YOU don't kill them, the DM will. Violently. In front of you.

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 04:34 PM
Because if YOU don't kill them, the DM will. Violently. In front of you.

we call that Doomed Home Town (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoomedHometown) syndrome

of course, with particularly odd backgrounds or ones that the DM doesn't know what to do with, you can avoid this altogether.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 04:36 PM
we call that Doomed Home Town (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoomedHometown) syndrome

And that is why I am so very glad that my PCs didn't bother to come up with their own backstory. I'm going to scar them for life! :smallbiggrin:

Prime32
2010-06-10, 04:36 PM
I've played female characters in PbP, some of whom have even got into relationships with other PCs, but I'd be too embarrassed to do it in a face-to-face game.

There are different standards for men and women - a story with a certain level of emotion and introspection would be considered emo for a male character, but for a female character it would be an anagram of emo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe). Seriously, they say no one would have hated the characters of Neon Genesis Evangelion if their genders were flipped.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 04:39 PM
Seriously, they say no one would have hated the characters of Neon Genesis Evangelion if their genders were flipped.

*raises hand*

I would. At the end of the series when episodes became nothing but half an hour of angsty mumbling, at lest.

Umael
2010-06-10, 04:41 PM
I've played female characters in PbP, some of whom have even got into relationships with other PCs, but I'd be too embarrassed to do it in a face-to-face game.

Play a female PC in a LARP once. You'll have no trouble playing one in a tabletop again.

Ellye
2010-06-10, 04:42 PM
I remember when a female friend of mine decided to play a male Barbarian. It was her first time playing a male character, I believe.
She wanted to have sex with every single thing remotely female. :smallannoyed:

Well, we were young back them. Hormones and all, I guess.
Funny part is that a male member of our group said that her roleplaying and character personality were very believable. :smallbiggrin:

AsteriskAmp
2010-06-10, 04:46 PM
I used to use female NPCs in campaigns, then I tried FATAL just to see how awful it was, never again would a female NPC appear near my campaigns, what was done was just to awful.

Nero24200
2010-06-10, 04:51 PM
I've seen some PC's get a little more into the game when a female NPC enters the scene...though saddly I do not mean that in a good way. Theres always one or two guys in the group (at least in the games I've played) that get a ltitle too excited about female NPC's.

In one really bad case a PC was stalking a NPC. When we talked about it, he simply said "What? He loves her?" (Even though the only instances where they even interacted is when she was attacking the party). Since then I've strayed away from female NPC's unless being female was absoluetly nessicery (and have yet to find a situation where it is so...).

InkEyes
2010-06-10, 05:18 PM
I've had a few incidents where players have flirted with, or tried to woo female NPCs. Most of the time they're ignored though. One memorable one was when a Shifter Monk decided to bring the 500-year old and slightly eccentric elf woman with him to a Sharn Gala. She was a pillow aficionado, and the party set up camp in her house after they did some work for her. I don't know why she didn't kick them out after the job was done; maybe she was lonely and happy to have some people to talk to? Anyway, the ball turned into a murder scene and the shifter left her to kick in some doors for answers.

That gala actually seemed to be an ideal place for the party to scope out some partners. The Paladin of Freedom stuck up a rapport with girls on two occasions, but was literally carried off by the Shifter to detect evil before either encounter got beyond the weather as a conversation topic. In the end, the only person to see any "action" was the high charisma'd Dread Necromancer. He usually described himself as looking "like a creepier version of Harry Potter," but I think he went for more of a "Fabio" look during the ball. The Dread Necro tried for some more ladies later in the adventure, unfortunately for him they weren't nearly as careful with personal hygiene as the fine ladies at the ball. At least he had a Paladin nearby to provide the dual duty of chastising and healing.

The only time it happens is when they're goofing off. I don't think they're very comfortable seriously flirting with their female friend/DM. That's fine by me, leaves time for actual story-related gaming.

Pechvarry
2010-06-10, 06:39 PM
Dunno that I'd call us an older group, but these days we're all mid-to-upper 20s, half of us are married, and we're all very un-frat-boy. That said, I often ask how many daughters every barkeep has, their ages, and how cute the appropriate-aged ones are. I don't think I'm actually that chauvinistic, but it annoys the DM and is funny when not done every 13 minutes. But those sorts of things are honestly why I don't like the players' significant others around -- D&D is a "guys' night out" for me and I'd feel like a real tool if I behaved like that with women around.

One thing I've RP'd a couple times is the guy who's a flirt (though I always specify it's what I'm doing off-screen. I don't really feel like flirting with the DM) but never actually gets any. Something always happens to screw up his day -- usually himself. I've also played a few married men with wives who are NPCs that, through circumstance, are far away and out of harm's way. Really, why wouldn't a heterosexual male wanderer be interested in every woman in port?

WarKitty
2010-06-10, 06:57 PM
I tend to play characters with flexible sexuality. It's more fun when your (male) druid starts hitting on the (also male) barkeep, than bothering about his daughter. Although I'd already stabbed his daughter by then.

Edit: to be fair, this particular character I played as rather a cad overall. Sleep with whatever, then head off and let them deal with the consequences. Kellen is a jerk like that though.

Hawriel
2010-06-10, 07:03 PM
Hmm female NPCs....

19 + 4 :smallamused:

Eloi
2010-06-10, 07:07 PM
Hmm female NPCs....

19 + 4 :smallamused:

23? I don't get it.

Spiryt
2010-06-10, 07:09 PM
What, 4th page and still no pictures?

do not use sharp objects please... ;P

Eloi
2010-06-10, 07:10 PM
What, 4th page and still no pictures?

do not use sharp objects please... ;P

There was a picture of pedo bear earlier.

Kiren
2010-06-10, 07:21 PM
Hmm female NPCs....

19 + 4 :smallamused:


23? I don't get it.

Edit: Is it a reference to Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female?"

No, that means he scores.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 07:22 PM
No, 19+4 that means he scores.

I still don't get it, honestly.

Thajocoth
2010-06-10, 07:27 PM
We have a player in my group that's an Elf Crossbow Turret Ranger, who went his first couple sessions without a name until the group decided his name is Crossbow Jones.

There was a female Elf NPC archaeologist of Ioun, and based entirely on the fact that they're both Elves and of opposite genders (with nothing else in common whatsoever), both of the party's Dragonborn kept trying to get the two of them together. Neither was interested.

Aside from that, no NPC's gender has ever really mattered in my group. I don't even think I've known the gender of most of them...

Dogmantra
2010-06-10, 07:34 PM
I still don't get it, honestly.

Roll of 19, plus a mod of 4, and that's the over the DC to score. It also rhymes. :smallwink:

Mando Knight
2010-06-10, 07:38 PM
We have a player in my group that's an Elf Crossbow Turret Ranger, who went his first couple sessions without a name until the group decided his name is Crossbow Jones.

There was a female Elf NPC archaeologist of Ioun, and based entirely on the fact that they're both Elves and of opposite genders (with nothing else in common whatsoever), both of the party's Dragonborn kept trying to get the two of them together. Neither was interested.

Was the NPC's name Marion? Did you have a rip-roaring adventure fighting Not-zis for ancient artifacts? No? That's why.

Thajocoth
2010-06-10, 07:40 PM
Was the NPC's name Marion? Did you have a rip-roaring adventure fighting Not-zis for ancient artifacts? No? That's why.

No and no. And I have no idea what you're referencing.

AstralFire
2010-06-10, 07:47 PM
No and no. And I have no idea what you're referencing.

...You're not serious, are you? :smalleek:

Eloi
2010-06-10, 07:50 PM
...You're not serious, are you? :smalleek:

Well let's help them:

Look at where I'm from. Add "Jones" at the end. There you go.

Drakevarg
2010-06-10, 07:57 PM
Roll of 19, plus a mod of 4, and that's the over the DC to score. It also rhymes. :smallwink:

Or you could just roll a nat20. And that's assuming the NPC is friendly to begin with. And assuming that "helpful" means "sex." AND assuming that the DM actually uses something as broken as the Diplomacy skill.

And no, the fact that it rhymes does NOT increase the probability of sex.

Kiren
2010-06-10, 08:11 PM
I still don't get it, honestly.

http://www.urealms.com/

Watch the episodes, and soon enough all show be answered.

The classics episodes start out slower then the remade are really good, they have bad graphics though. 8 episodes.

The remade series is much long, with new episodes all the time, the graphics are amazing.

Either way the scene is the exact same, graphics and all in both series, and occurs either in the first episode or close to it.

Start with the classics, (make sure to watch all 8 though, they are hilarious)

Edit: The classics are under Unforgotten realms: Specials

Thajocoth
2010-06-10, 08:26 PM
Well let's help them:

Look at where I'm from. Add "Jones" at the end. There you go.

Oh, right. But there were no actual similarities to Indiana Jones in the adventure... Like, at all.

Quick summary: We were just getting an artifact of the goddess of madness to use in a ritual to remove the godess's taint from half the party. It was in an ice cave that had a dinosaur, some ghostly and frozen undead and at the end a White Dragon. The artifact itself knocks people unconscious if they touch it or look at it directly while within it's glow (vs Reflex or Will, I forget which), but can be held safely in cloth. The jungle's local Ents didn't want us to go in there, but we convinced them it was for the best. The female NPC simply pointed us in the direction of the place.

JeminiZero
2010-06-10, 08:55 PM
Oddly enough, because I have a strong preference for non-humanoid characters (Warforged, Necropolitan, various types of Robots/Undead/Oozes/Unmentionables in other game systems), mainly for their tasty tasty immunities, my characters theoretically shouldn't care about the gender of the NPC in front of it.*

*Yes I know there are exceptions, but we're not supposed to talk about it. As per rules 1 and 2.

Ellye
2010-06-10, 09:22 PM
Being the single female PC in the group had it's share of weird moments, too. There was one particular DM who was inclined in having male NPCs hitting at my characters in every single adventure.

(And there was one time when one of my characters got into a bit of "trouble" with a tentacled minion of the BBEG. But, to be fair with the DM, he did asked me beforehand if I was ok with it, and it did had some plot relevance.)

gbprime
2010-06-10, 09:25 PM
Dunno that I'd call us an older group, but these days we're all mid-to-upper 20s, half of us are married

Lol. I'm the second youngest in my group. I'm 40. The only one younger... is the daughter of the other guy who DM's. She's 22 and was born AFTER they started meeting every saturday night to play D+D... at that very same dining room table. :smalleek:

The mix of male and female gamers is 5 and 3. People just act like people, and attraction happens. We do a lot of innuendo and fade-to-black, but rarely does someone pursue someone who just wanders in, it's more like PC's having relationships with regular NPCs or each other.

One of the coolest group dynamics we had was two PC's hooking up, one of them discovering they couldn't stand the other person weeks later, and then sniping at each other off and on for the rest of the campaign. Can't stand your Ex? Imagine having to stay with them to save the kingdom. Bummer. :smallamused:

Eloi
2010-06-10, 09:29 PM
Being the single female PC in the group had it's share of weird moments, too. There was one particular DM who was inclined in having male NPCs hitting at my characters in every single adventure.

(And there was one time when one of my characters got into a bit of "trouble" with a tentacled minion of the BBEG. But, to be fair with the DM, he did asked me beforehand if I was ok with it, and it did had some plot relevance.)

I'm usually the only girl at the table, but I'm also usually DM too, so I don't really have to worry about things such as that.
However, its horrible your DM would do that! My tentacle monsters target men and women, equally.

Eldariel
2010-06-10, 09:56 PM
I'm usually the only girl at the table, but I'm also usually DM too, so I don't really have to worry about things such as that.
However, its horrible your DM would do that! My tentacle monsters target men and women, equally.

Maybe he's merchandising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYOhXaZl73M)?

Pechvarry
2010-06-10, 10:46 PM
The only one younger... is the daughter of the other guy who DM's. She's 22 and was born AFTER they started meeting every saturday night to play D+D... at that very same dining room table. :smalleek:

So, uh... is she single?

Itwasajokedon'tkillme! Sorry, given the topic I just couldn't resist.

mucat
2010-06-10, 11:08 PM
Gotta admit, I'm disconcerted by the number of people saying "I don't use female NPCs"...either because it just never occurred to them that half the people in their worlds were women (how do the species survive?) or because their players act so creepy around female characters that they just prefer not to admit the issue to begin with.

In the latter case, it's a little like saying "Several of my players are white supremacists, so I make sure none of my NPCs have dark skin." Fine that you defused the issue...but why do you game with these idiots?

Eloi
2010-06-10, 11:08 PM
Gotta admit, I'm disconcerted by the number of people saying "I don't use female NPCs"...either because it just never occurred to them that half the people in their worlds were women (how do th species survive?) or because their players act so creepy around female characters that they just prefer not to admit the issue to begin with.

In the latter case, it's a little like saying "Several of my players are white supremacists, so I make sure none of my NPCs have dark skin." Fine that you defused the issue...but why do you game with these idiots?

Or its because they have limited role-playing skills, and playing some one of the opposite sex is a challenging task.

mucat
2010-06-10, 11:12 PM
Or its because they have limited role-playing skills, and playing some one of the opposite sex is a challenging task.

You raise a good point, and that's a more sympathetic reason than the two I listed. Still, a challenge is fun; that's what games are about. It's not like a less-than-perfect job of roleplaying will cost anyone a limb!

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 11:14 PM
You raise a good point, and that's a more sympathetic reason than the two I listed. Still, a challenge is fun; that's what games are about. It's not like a less-than-perfect job of roleplaying will cost anyone a limb!

no, but in the wrong circumstances or with the wrong people it can earn outright derision... but that raises up a whole lot of other problems

Eloi
2010-06-10, 11:15 PM
You raise a good point, and that's a more sympathetic reason than the two I listed. Still, a challenge is fun; that's what games are about. It's not like a less-than-perfect job of roleplaying will cost anyone a limb!

It could cost the Willing Suspension of Disbelief from your players because it may be more jarringly obvious they aren't actually talking to someone of the opposite sex.

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 11:18 PM
It could cost the Willing Suspension of Disbelief from your players because it may be more jarringly obvious they aren't actually talking to someone of the opposite sex.

heh, and the only solution to that is either to wear a massive cloak or be completely androgynous. A DM's best bet is probably just to find a way to get the players ok with it

Eloi
2010-06-10, 11:20 PM
heh, and the only solution to that is either to wear a massive cloak or be completely androgynous. A DM's best bet is probably just to find a way to get the players ok with it

I love massive cloaks, I'll bring one to the table sometime. :smallwink:

Marriclay
2010-06-10, 11:22 PM
I love massive cloaks, I'll bring one to the table sometime. :smallwink:

burn some incense, darken the lights and make the whole place feel spooky, like they walked into a dungeon. Eccentricity is awesome.

Eloi
2010-06-10, 11:31 PM
burn some incense, darken the lights and make the whole place feel spooky, like they walked into a dungeon. Eccentricity is awesome.

"Eccentric is Loopy with money." Since I don't have money, I'm just loopy.

mucat
2010-06-10, 11:32 PM
It could cost the Willing Suspension of Disbelief from your players because it may be more jarringly obvious they aren't actually talking to someone of the opposite sex.
Good point. And I gotta tell you, when it comes to the technical aspects of imitating a female voice, I'm hopeless. I'm practically tone-deaf, and if I try to raise my voice an octave, I'll break into a crackling falsetto. So if I'm voicing a woman, whether in a game or just while telling a story of something that happened at a party, I will maybe modify my inflection a bit, but mostly just talk.

And it works fine, because I'm never actually thinking "I'm voicing a woman." I'm thinking "this is what Kim said on Saturday", or "This is what Marie Curie said about radium isotopes", or "This is the lie that the tricky little rogue tries to get way with." And as long as I'm concentrating on the person I'm representing, rather than the fact that she has two X chromosomes and I don't, it's never awkward.

Aeromyre
2010-06-11, 12:03 AM
I was a little bit disturbed by one of my players' fondness for attempting to woo a vaguely attractive female NPC every three or four sessions in a game where my significant other was one of the other players. Not that he had the hots for me, but still, weird.

I was far more amused by his poor luck in always choosing the NPCs I had marked as asexual, severely taken, or lesbian. :smallamused:

You got your girlfriend to play D&D? Where'd you meet her?

mucat
2010-06-11, 12:05 AM
You got your girlfriend to play D&D? Where'd you meet her?

** Smack! **

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 12:07 AM
You got your girlfriend to play D&D? Where'd you meet her?

Presumably somewhere where he didn't go up and make a big deal out of it if she already played or in someplace pretty normal like a bookstore or wal-mart if she tried it afterwards because... you know... in relationships, it healthy to try to take interest in the hobbies of your significant other.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:15 AM
Presumably somewhere where he didn't go up and make a big deal out of it if she already played or in someplace pretty normal like a bookstore or wal-mart if she tried it afterwards because... you know... in relationships, it healthy to try to take interest in the hobbies of your significant other.

Is there a trope for this?

....

Found it! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitletgbpyix5?from=Main.DungeonmastersGirlfriend You can find nice subversions of the trope in the Troper Tales page.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 12:20 AM
Is there a trope for this?

....

Found it! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitletgbpyix5?from=Main.DungeonmastersGirlfriend You can find nice subversions of the trope in the Troper Tales page.

Actually, I was going more with the concept of common courtesy and respect for the opposite sex (and no, I'm not looking up if there's a trope for that).

Drakevarg
2010-06-11, 12:23 AM
(and no, I'm not looking up if there's a trope for that).

There probably is.

Grumman
2010-06-11, 12:24 AM
Dead parents are harder for DMs to use in poorly contrived pathos-based plots against you.
"...Mommy?" :smalleek:
"Brrraaaiiiinssss!"

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:27 AM
Actually, I was going more with the concept of common courtesy and respect for the opposite sex (and no, I'm not looking up if there's a trope for that).

I'm searching for one. I found StayInTheKitchen,MenAreTheExpendableGender,HeManWo menHater,DoesNotLikeMen, but nothing positive in regards to that.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:29 AM
Level 5 on the Sliding Scale of Gender Inequality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfGenderInequality) would be that trope, I think.

Ormur
2010-06-11, 04:44 AM
I've been pretty bad at introducing female NPC's I've realized. I've got to do it more often, if only for purely mechanical reasons since two of my players have that flaw that gives them a penalty for attacking females.

But my group has a female character played by a male. There's been not hitting on her even though she's a high charisma sorceress but that's understandable. I did make one NPC hit on her though. I really don't want too much romance in my games, we're all guys and trying to hit on each other while roleplaying different genders and sexual preferences can be pretty awkward. I'd just prefer to get on with the plot.

That's no excuse for not including female NPC though. I guess I'm still pretty guilty of unconsciously considering male the default gender and since I'm not thinking of possible relationships when making encounters the campaign ends up being much more male dominant than I intended.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 04:58 AM
I've been pretty bad at introducing female NPC's I've realized. I've got to do it more often, if only for purely mechanical reasons since two of my players have that flaw that gives them a penalty for attacking females.

But my group has a female character played by a male. There's been not hitting on her even though she's a high charisma sorceress but that's understandable. I did make one NPC hit on her though. I really don't want too much romance in my games, we're all guys and trying to hit on each other while roleplaying different genders and sexual preferences can be pretty awkward. I'd just prefer to get on with the plot.

That's no excuse for not including female NPC though. I guess I'm still pretty guilty of unconsciously considering male the default gender and since I'm not thinking of possible relationships when making encounters the campaign ends up being much more male dominant than I intended.
Want a fix to that? Run a underdark campaign. Everything is either usually female or eldritch cosmic horrors with no gender.

WarKitty
2010-06-11, 06:26 AM
Want a fix to that? Run a underdark campaign. Everything is either usually female or eldritch cosmic horrors with no gender.

To be fair, WoTC has picked up some flak on occasion for the matriarchal races all being outright evil. :smalleek:

Eloi
2010-06-11, 06:28 AM
To be fair, WoTC has picked up some flak on occasion for the matriarchal races all being outright evil. :smalleek:

:smallamused: Bwahahaha what's wrong with that?

Anterean
2010-06-11, 06:31 AM
I had a slightly different problem with female npcs in my games, which inarguably where of my own making.

When ever my players ran into a female who where more fleshed out than the tavern wench they would go "ahh there is the villain"

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-11, 07:29 AM
To be fair, WoTC has picked up some flak on occasion for the matriarchal races all being outright evil. :smalleek:

Well the most "male chauvinist" society as well is usually evil (orcs).

Naia
2010-06-11, 07:43 AM
Once when I DM'ed a WFRP campaign one of the players tried to charm the tavern wench. She rolled a critical failure and fell head over heels in love with him (her very short description clearly stated she was an orphan dreaming of the knight in shining armour coming to take her away). They had a nice couple of days, then the party set sails for another city. With her as a stowaway. The other players were horrified, but when the PC in question learned of her pickpocketing and other sneaky skills he let her come along. It was actually really handy to have an inside man (or woman) in the party - at one point she was posessed by the BBEG they thought they had killed. She and the PC ended up getting married and having at least one child.

Matthew
2010-06-11, 09:04 AM
Back when we were kids there was admittedly a lot of adventurers frequenting brothels, especially in Middenheim (though there was not much more to it than a few dice rolls, certainly no hot and heavy "role-playing"). Eventually that pretty much lost its appeal. Players do still occasionally try to seduce barmaids or female NPC adventurers and the like, which meet with the sort of success rates you might expect. For the most part, though, I would say that neither the male players nor female players I game with show any unusual or especial interest in NPCs of the opposite sex.

Choco
2010-06-11, 09:07 AM
Back when we were kids there was admittedly a lot of adventurers frequenting brothels, especially in Middenheim (though there was not much more to it than a few dice rolls, certainly no hot and heavy "role-playing"). Eventually that pretty much lost its appeal. Players do still occasionally try to seduce barmaids or female NPC adventurers and the like, which meet with the sort of success rates you might expect. For the most part, though, I would say that neither the male players nor female players I game with show any unusual or especial interest in NPCs of the opposite sex.

Same here.

My current group actually avoids those situations cause they find it awkward :smallwink:

Eloi
2010-06-11, 09:12 AM
Back when we were kids there was admittedly a lot of adventurers frequenting brothels, especially in Middenheim (though there was not much more to it than a few dice rolls, certainly no hot and heavy "role-playing"). Eventually that pretty much lost its appeal. Players do still occasionally try to seduce barmaids or female NPC adventurers and the like, which meet with the sort of success rates you might expect. For the most part, though, I would say that neither the male players nor female players I game with show any unusual or especial interest in NPCs of the opposite sex.

Reminds me of the DM of the Rings running gag where everyone would ask if there were brothels in every single town they went to, and when they didn't (none of them did), they'd immediately say the town sucked.

Badgerish
2010-06-11, 09:54 AM
I include female NPCs as contacts, allies and villans (they are in a minority though). There is effectively no romance/sex in my games.


I support the idea that the trick to RPing women is just to RP people (who happen to be female).

gbprime
2010-06-11, 09:56 AM
I support the idea that the trick to RPing women is just to RP people (who happen to be female).

<applause> :smallcool:

Umael
2010-06-11, 10:24 AM
To be fair, WoTC has picked up some flak on occasion for the matriarchal races all being outright evil. :smalleek:


Well the most "male chauvinist" society as well is usually evil (orcs).

To both of these... yeah, so?

Most societies that WotC have created are evil!

(Seriously, pick up the Monster Manual (to get a list of all the races available), just about any addition, and look at how many monsters are intelligent and social enough to have a society (i.e., dragons don't count, they aren't social). Then note how many are evil (or just neutral unfriendly).)



I had a slightly different problem with female npcs in my games, which inarguably where of my own making.

When ever my players ran into a female who where more fleshed out than the tavern wench they would go "ahh there is the villain"

Well... make your tavern wenches show more flesh... er... flesh your tavern wenches out more. Maybe the next tavern is run by a family, and the barkeeper's wife (in her late 40's, very motherly) is the head server, followed by their three daughters. Based them in part off of some people you know, maybe.

(@Naia: Aww! She got your knight in shining armour after all!)



I support the idea that the trick to RPing women is just to RP people (who happen to be female).

And I bet it works, too!


As a sidenote to all of this... can we have a few taverns where the bartender is female and the servers are male?

I mean, a number of us talk about how we flesh out our female (and male) NPCs, but how often do we run a game where we just think "Okay, the default gender is male, unless the default niche for this NPC is traditionally female."

As PCs, how often have one of us had to deal with the guardsman? Are there no guardswomen? The blacksmith? Male. Most merchants, especially if they sell (magical) arms and armor? Male. Bartender? Male. Tavern server? Female. Why is it a farmer and his wife? Why not a married couple of farmers? Why not a female farmer?

Ormagoden
2010-06-11, 11:11 AM
We have a DM who likes to know if player's end up siring bastard children. (He keeps detailed family lines)
So he has a system for pregnancy.

I can't tell you how many times we've made fun of it.

It usually goes

DM: "Hey, _Player name_, Roll a fort check."
Player: I go...
Me Interrupting: "YOU'RE PREGNANT!" <it doesn't matter what sex the character is.>

Ormur
2010-06-11, 11:33 AM
Yeah, both according to the WOTC source material and just to make sure that everyone can have fun the game should be set in a world considerably more egalitarian than the actual middle ages.

I have to remind myself to include more women as warriors and members of other traditionally male occupations. You don't have to have completely equality but the occasional ruling countess, priest, knight and merchant should be included.

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 11:36 AM
One of the best ways to do this is to throw in a matriarchal kingdom. the cities will have mostly just women running them, so it's more common for the players to see them. by the time they leave, you and they will expect it to remain the same - full enough of women to be believable

It's what I'd do, anyways

Mando Knight
2010-06-11, 11:39 AM
I support the idea that the trick to RPing women is just to RP people (who happen to be female).

It also comes with a secret kicker:

If the entire rest of your group is made of males, especially single males, you can write off almost any "bitchy" or "unusual" behavior as "she's having her period."

...
...
<.<
>.>
...
*runs*

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 11:48 AM
It also comes with a secret kicker:

If the entire rest of your group is made of males, especially single males, you can write off almost any "bitchy" or "unusual" behavior as "she's having her period."

...
...
<.<
>.>
...
*runs*

*Roundhouse kick!*

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 11:51 AM
It also comes with a secret kicker:

If the entire rest of your group is made of males, especially single males, you can write off almost any "bitchy" or "unusual" behavior as "she's having her period."

...
...
<.<
>.>
...
*runs*

GM: ...And the well-trained assassin pinches a nerve. Make a fort save.
Snarky Wizard: Uh... 15?
GM: *fake cringe* Oooooh. I'm sorry. It's a 20. You fall on the ground in a paralyzed heap. The female assassin calmly explains that if your previous statement was the case, then that wouldn't have been so easy. She also calmly explains that this is why your wizard never qualified for Cleric duty, and is a bit shocked he's smart enough to be a wizard as anyone with a modicrum of intelligence should've seen that one coming. Finally, she explains that the next person with a smart a-- comment to make gets the sword and poison next time and she won't aim to just disable them. Any questions?

Of course... There's also the alternative.

GM: Offended, the female barkeep refuses to serve you any more beers and charges you double for the hotel room.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 11:54 AM
I try to place both male an female NPCs in non-stereotypical positions in my games. For instance, a male bar servant and a female head of the town guard. This tends to mean that the PCs meet more female NPCs (since more of the important non-evil people they meet are female) and it is not a big deal.

In fact the only flirting so far has been between male NPCs and the female PC.

I also try to maintain about a 5-10% homosexuality rate among my NPCs.

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 12:07 PM
I also try to maintain about a 5-10% homosexuality rate among my NPCs.

Heh. I once had a town the PCs visited. the mayor was a woman. her wife walked in on the meeting between them. It was just so unusual that it caught the attention of all my players

Bharg
2010-06-11, 12:09 PM
GM: ...And the well-trained assassin pinches a nerve. Make a fort save.
Snarky Wizard: Uh... 15?
GM: *fake cringe* Oooooh. I'm sorry. It's a 20. You fall on the ground in a paralyzed heap. The female assassin calmly explains that if your previous statement was the case, then that wouldn't have been so easy. She also calmly explains that this is why your wizard never qualified for Cleric duty, and is a bit shocked he's smart enough to be a wizard as anyone with a modicrum of intelligence should've seen that one coming. Finally, she explains that the next person with a smart a-- comment to make gets the sword and poison next time and she won't aim to just disable them. Any questions?

Of course... There's also the alternative.

GM: Offended, the female barkeep refuses to serve you any more beers and charges you double for the hotel room.

But that's just not how it happens... 'cause we all know there are no people more attractive than the heroes in town.

Anterean
2010-06-11, 12:12 PM
Well... make your tavern wenches show more flesh... er... flesh your tavern wenches out more. Maybe the next tavern is run by a family, and the barkeeper's wife (in her late 40's, very motherly) is the head server, followed by their three daughters. Based them in part off of some people you know, maybe.



The problem was that I had a disproportionate large amount of female villains... I have taken steps to even that out

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:19 PM
I also try to maintain about a 5-10% homosexuality rate among my NPCs.

I'd say about 30% of my NPC's are homosexual, pansexual, or bisexual.
50% of my NPC's are asexual, and the remaining 10% are heterosexual.

So heterosexuality is the exception, not the rule, when I'm running the NPC's. Tho' my NPC's are usually fully-stated with epic back stories but the PC's don't interact with all of them, so my players probably aren't aware of all that.

Prime32
2010-06-11, 12:23 PM
I'd say about 30% of my NPC's are homosexual, pansexual, or bisexual.
50% of my NPC's are asexual, and the remaining 10% are heterosexual.

So heterosexuality is the exception, not the rule, when I'm running the NPC's. Tho' my NPC's are usually fully-stated with epic back stories but the PC's don't interact with all of them, so my players probably aren't aware of all that.:smallconfused:

First, what's the makeup of your group in terms of gender and sexuality?

Second, what's the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Either there's a third sex I don't know about or a pansexual would have every fetish ever.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 12:25 PM
But that's just not how it happens... 'cause we all know there are no people more attractive than the heroes in town.

Hey. I never said the female assassin was pretty. Just competent. Are you going to argue with the person that essentially hit your wizard in the solar plexus?

Besides, considering how many players use Charisma as a dump stat (because it "doesn't do anything mechanical if you're not a paladin or sorceror"), I'm surprised a good number of PCs can even claim that.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:27 PM
:smallconfused:

First, are you or any of your group gay?

Second, what's the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Either there's a third sex I don't know about or a pansexual would have every fetish ever.
No, I'm not exactly sure about myself (tho' I kinda find all sex a little...:smallyuk: no thanks.), but I usually just do it so I don't have to make any male NPC's because I'm not good at playing them.

Pansexual people search for relationships without regard for gender, whilst bisexual people are attracted to both genders yet acknowledge them.

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 12:28 PM
Besides, considering how many players use Charisma as a dump stat (because it "doesn't do anything mechanical if you're not a paladin or sorceror"), I'm surprised a good number of PCs can even claim that.

Heh. I always try to make sure that my character has at least 10 charisma and 12 intelligence. Wisdom is my dump most of the time, as using steadfast determination reduces the problems for my will save.

Prime32
2010-06-11, 12:43 PM
No, I'm not exactly sure about myself (tho' I kinda find all sex a little...:smallyuk: no thanks.), but I usually just do it so I don't have to make any male NPC's because I'm not good at playing them.You make lesbians rather than male NPCs? Or am I misinterpreting you? Because I find it much easier to play someone of the opposite gender than a homosexual, probably because I see more of them from day to day.

Have you ever been mistaken about the gender of a poster here? Well, have you DMed many online games? It's easier to visualise someone playing a character of the opposite gender with the distractions of their face and voice removed - you could try building up your confidence that way.

I would also recommend copying the personality of a male character from a book, TV show, etc. as a starting point.


Pansexual people search for relationships without regard for gender, whilst bisexual people are attracted to both genders yet acknowledge them.I don't really see a lot of difference there. :smallconfused:

AstralFire
2010-06-11, 12:45 PM
Pansexuality actually applies to considerably more things than bisexuality - it goes beyond two genders.

Ormur
2010-06-11, 12:50 PM
Heh I'm playing in a huge group with some lax stat rolling rules and the average party charisma was 16. We had one rather disagreeable accountant (wizard//barbarian) with a charisma of 12 and he's treated like the party's ugly stepchild, a huge embarrassment. The party I'm a DM for also has pretty good charisma, realistically I should have more NPC's of both sexes hit on them. Although charisma doesn't have to mean sexual attraction. One of the members is more of a spiritual leader. But I've only once made an NPC with any though to his possible attraction to a party member. He was just the type to make a pass at a fellow sorcerer.

gbprime
2010-06-11, 12:52 PM
Pansexuality actually applies to considerably more things than bisexuality - it goes beyond two genders.

Just so long as pansexuality isn't talking about skillets and woks. Fetishes are weird. :smallsigh:

Eloi
2010-06-11, 12:54 PM
You make lesbians rather than male NPCs? Or am I misinterpreting you? Because I find it much easier to play someone of the opposite gender than a homosexual, probably because I see more of them from day to day.

Have you ever been mistaken about the gender of a poster here? Well, have you DMed many online games? It's easier to visualise someone playing a character of the opposite gender with the distractions of their face and voice removed - you could try building up your confidence that way.

I would also recommend copying the personality of a male character from a book, TV show, etc. as a starting point.

Nope, you interpret correctly.
I have not done many online games, no.
That might be good idea, on the personality of a male character. Now how should I... Cap-TAIN... KIRK would- probably BE the - best CHOICE.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 12:57 PM
Heh I'm playing in a huge group with some lax stat rolling rules and the average party charisma was 16. We had one rather disagreeable accountant (wizard//barbarian) with a charisma of 12 and he's treated like the party's ugly stepchild, a huge embarrassment. The party I'm a DM for also has pretty good charisma, realistically I should have more NPC's of both sexes hit on them. Although charisma doesn't have to mean sexual attraction. One of the members is more of a spiritual leader. But I've only once made an NPC with any though to his possible attraction to a party member. He was just the type to make a pass at a fellow sorcerer.

I'm someone who either likes having at least a 12 charisma or playing Dwarfs with a 6 Charisma. So trust me, I know it's not a comeliness stat. However, a good portion of attraction is personality and how you carry yourself. A bit of confidence and charm goes a long way. On the other hand, an ugly personality can muck up a good face.

Point is, considering the average D&D player seems to think Charisma IS a dump stat, it's a bit silly to assume that the average D&D party is THAT much more attractive than the average NPC.

And yes, I've been in a D&D party where the HIGHEST Charisma score not on the sorceror was a 12... on a cleric. The rest were 8's.

gbprime
2010-06-11, 12:59 PM
Charisma is a bad dump stat anyway. I much prefer wisdom as a dump stat. I mean, it explains why it is that I'm out here dodging lightning bolts and slogging through wyvern poop when I could be safe in a town turning driftwood into art objects for major profit. :smallamused:

Bharg
2010-06-11, 01:02 PM
Hey. I never said the female assassin was pretty. Just competent. Are you going to argue with the person that essentially hit your wizard in the solar plexus?

Besides, considering how many players use Charisma as a dump stat (because it "doesn't do anything mechanical if you're not a paladin or sorceror"), I'm surprised a good number of PCs can even claim that.

Then why is he trying to seduce the barmaid? Besides... hitting wizards solar plexuses while they are not using any magic defensive countermeasures is not that hard...

Do not forget the bonus on charisma equal to the cash value of the gold pieces and the magic items the hero is carrying/npc level *10,000 when trying to seduce a npc.

Also! Npcs love to make out with a hero stained in the blood of a monster while wearing only a tiny leather bikini...

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 01:11 PM
Also! Npcs love to make out with a hero stained in the blood of a monster while wearing only a tiny leather bikini...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/pyranack/You__re_Hot__by_jaxthebat.jpg

FoE
2010-06-11, 01:11 PM
It occurs to me that DM of the Rings once weighed in on this topic, providing a good example (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951) of why some DMs might be reluctant to use female NPCs.

Kris Strife
2010-06-11, 01:12 PM
Nope, you interpret correctly.
I have not done many online games, no.
That might be good idea, on the personality of a male character. Now how should I... Cap-TAIN... KIRK would- probably BE the - best CHOICE.

Go for Mr. T instead. Captain Kirk is better for PC bard. :smalltongue:

Eloi
2010-06-11, 01:16 PM
It occurs to me that DM of the Rings once weighed in on this topic, providing a good example (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951) of why some DMs might be reluctant to use female NPCs.

We already referenced that, like a few pages ago.

Bharg
2010-06-11, 01:16 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/pyranack/You__re_Hot__by_jaxthebat.jpg
Exactly. :smallamused:

Choco
2010-06-11, 01:16 PM
Go for Mr. T instead. Captain Kirk is better for PC bard. :smalltongue:

This. Mr. T and Chuck Norris are great candidates :smallbiggrin:.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 01:17 PM
Go for Mr. T instead. Captain Kirk is better for PC bard. :smalltongue:

I pity the foo who try to use me as an N-P-C.

Choco
2010-06-11, 01:20 PM
In all seriousness though, using Kirk, Mr. T, or any other male pop culture icon as an example of "male personality" would be like me basing all of my female characters off of the caste of Sex and the City. It will get you results, but probably not the ones you intended.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 01:22 PM
In all seriousness though, using Kirk, Mr. T, or any other male pop culture icon as an example of "male personality" would be like me basing all of my female characters off of the caste of Sex and the City. It will get you results, but probably not the ones you intended.

I never heard of that thing I bolded, what is it?

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 01:23 PM
Then why is he trying to seduce the barmaid? Besides... hitting wizards solar plexuses while they are not using any magic defensive countermeasures is not that hard...

Do not forget the bonus on charisma equal to the cash value of the gold pieces and the magic items the hero is carrying/npc level *10,000 when trying to seduce a npc.

Also! Npcs love to make out with a hero stained in the blood of a monster while wearing only a tiny leather bikini...

Uh... All that stuff was in reference to some players assuming "irritated" behavior in female NPCs indicates a certain biological phenomena that occurs once a month.

That was just my suggestion for possible ways to handle that kind of thinking and silence it effectively.

Also, there's a LOT of classes that'll slump over about half of the time from that. Wizard was just the first one to come to mind because of the obviousness of crappy fortitude. Most non-melee centric classes have pretty abysmal fort checks though. I've seen characters get as high as level 12ish and still have around a 5 fort. Matter of fact, my current level 7-8 d20 modern character on the wall there has... a 7. And he's got the best all-around saves in the party.

Side note: Speaking of which. I need to level him.

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 01:24 PM
In all seriousness though, using Kirk, Mr. T, or any other male pop culture icon as an example of "male personality" would be like me basing all of my female characters off of the caste of Sex and the City. It will get you results, but probably not the ones you intended.

of course, shows like this would probably be best for 'standout' NPCs. If you want someone to be particularly memorable, maybe use a carbon copy of richard from legend of the seeker, or something, give him a few new motivations and a new name, and believe it or not you have your very own believable NPC. or, if you make start to go over the top and get jealous of the PCs, you have a rival dynamic

Choco
2010-06-11, 01:24 PM
I never heard of that thing I bolded, what is it?

Assuming ya aint just being sarcastic: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159206/

Eloi
2010-06-11, 01:27 PM
Assuming ya aint just being sarcastic: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159206/

So lemme get this straight:
They based a 6 year long television series and two movies about four girls gossiping about sex? What?

Choco
2010-06-11, 01:28 PM
I got no clue, but most (roughly 75%) of the girls I know LOVE it.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 01:31 PM
I got no clue, but most (roughly 75%) of the girls I know LOVE it.

Bleareyegrleyela (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Angrish)......


What. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat)

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 01:34 PM
{Scrubbed}

Bharg
2010-06-11, 01:34 PM
Uh... All that stuff was in reference to some players assuming "irritated" behavior in female NPCs indicates a certain biological phenomena that occurs once a month.

That was just my suggestion for possible ways to handle that kind of thinking and silence it effectively.

Also, there's a LOT of classes that'll slump over about half of the time from that. Wizard was just the first one to come to mind because of the obviousness of crappy fortitude. Most non-melee centric classes have pretty abysmal fort checks though. I've seen characters get as high as level 12ish and still have around a 5 fort. Matter of fact, my current level 7-8 d20 modern character on the wall there has... a 7. And he's got the best all-around saves in the party.

Side note: Speaking of which. I need to level him.

Then level him good. I always thought good con plus class with fort bonus plus cheap magic item equals fort save appropriate for the level?

Aren't normally like 99% of the Npc in a fantasy world like married, under age, statists that will die in the next round or at least... to plain to be of any interest.

Choco
2010-06-11, 01:34 PM
Bleareyegrleyela (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Angrish)......


What. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat)

That is the reaction from the remaining 25% :smalltongue:


But yeah. The ratings were through the roof. It's basically a show that stupidly panders to liberal feminist interests and does it well. Kinda like a female version of Spike TV and shows with similar values that pander exclusively to guys. Not every guy likes it, but they do target their demographic well.

But yeah. Sex and the City. The opiate of the female masses.

That basically sums it up right there. Sex and the City is to girls what Spike TV is to guys.

FoE
2010-06-11, 01:48 PM
We already referenced that, like a few pages ago.

Yeah, well, your mom referenced that a few pages ago. :smalltongue:

Perhaps I should have mentioned the Dead Alewives sketch instead.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 01:49 PM
Then level him good. I always thought good con plus class with fort bonus plus cheap magic item equals fort save appropriate for the level?

Aren't normally like 99% of the Npc in a fantasy world like married, under age, statists that will die in the next round or at least... to plain to be of any interest.

d20 MODERN. Equipment and magic items are generally a commodity. Honestly, with a +2 con modifier, and a feat that's giving me bonuses on my saves, that's about what I can do without taking levels in strong hero or the like. But that's pretty typical, if not high, for the party skill monkey.

Even assuming regular D&D, classes with BAD saves are seeing a massive +2 bonus from levels (assuming no cross-classing). Assuming even a +2 con mod on EVERYONE, you're looking at a 7 at level 8 after a +3 cloak of resistance comes in. You could load up more stuff to improve it, but there's honestly better things to spend your money on since 90% of things that hit you won't be save based. Most characters have a bad save, and fort's a pretty common one for non front line fighters. Most fighters have pretty abysmal will saves too. Doesn't mean you should immediately take up magic items to immediately cover all cases of will saves.

Most people will fail a death attack attempt about half the time at an appropriate level. Not that shocking.

And you honestly seem to assume that all GMs use NPCs purely as window dressing while the PCs go out and kill monsters and that no HUMAN should ever be a similar or higher level to the PC.

Shocking though it may be, mutual attraction can often be based off of something other than physical might or power.

Also, according to most sources. No. 99% is WAY off. There's a lot of level 1 peasants running around, but most NPCs that are worth note are typically higher than level 1.

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, Oyashiro Torumiba (it's an anagram, don't ask) may not be the best combat character ever, but his 18 Will against fear and his 10 explorer lore check will make you quake in your boots... WITH KNOWLEDGE!

Kris Strife
2010-06-11, 01:57 PM
I never heard of that thing I bolded, what is it?

I envy you. I was working at a movie theater when the first movie was out.

Kiren
2010-06-11, 02:05 PM
Bleareyegrleyela (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Angrish)......


What. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat)

Keep in mind, its significantly more hard to meet women whom were not raised with the whole 'Girly Girl' outlook (for lack of a better term) eventually this leads to a like of such shows somehow I guess.

Bharg
2010-06-11, 02:05 PM
[...]
And you honestly seem to assume that all GMs use NPCs purely as window dressing while the PCs go out and kill monsters and that no HUMAN should ever be a similar or higher level to the PC.

Shocking though it may be, mutual attraction can often be based off of something other than physical might or power.

Also, according to most sources. No. 99% is WAY off. There's a lot of level 1 peasants running around, but most NPCs that are worth note are typically higher than level 1.

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, Oyashiro Torumiba (it's an anagram, don't ask) may not be the best combat character ever, but his 18 Will against fear and his 10 explorer lore check will make you quake in your boots... WITH KNOWLEDGE!
I was probably exaggerating a bit, yes, but, no, that's not the kind of games I am playing and, hey, the mutual attraction was unnecessary. :smallannoyed:
I wasn't talking about level but non-existing background and improvised personality, not the main plot device npc, but the poor randomly spawned female peasant collecting chickens off the streets.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 02:09 PM
Keep in mind, its significantly more hard to meet women whom were not raised with the whole 'Girly Girl' outlook (for lack of a better term) eventually this leads to a like of such shows somehow I guess.

I was raised by my tomboy (video-gaming, she owns a NES, SNES, Game Boy, you name she has it) mom and my tabletop/larping/videogaming older brother. There was no 'Girly Girl' out look. Because in the Grim Darkness of the future, there is only war nerdy hobbies.

Marriclay
2010-06-11, 02:20 PM
I was raised by my tomboy (video-gaming, she owns a NES, SNES, Game Boy, you name she has it) mom and my tabletop/larping/videogaming older brother. There was no 'Girly Girl' out look. Because in the Grim Darkness of the future, there is only war nerdy hobbies.

sounds like that would be the other 25%. I approve!

Cogidubnus
2010-06-11, 02:21 PM
"...Mommy?" :smalleek:
"Brrraaaiiiinssss!"

Shaun of the Dead moment, anyone?

On the topic of female NPCs, I have trouble RPing them, more because of the inflection that anything else. But one of my players, for an amusing trait, has handed me the power to make him be a lovestruck hero for any female I want. Succubit, methinks :smallamused: But there is an argument for not using them. DnD is quite an iron age society. Usually no real empires, just city states. And historically, women in those societies WERE oppressed and didn't have the same options as men. Hell, 2 weeks ago I was writing an essay on why Sparta had the most gender equality in the ancient world.

We tend to leave sex out of our games because it's just not something we're comfortable RPing, except for joking about it.

The discussion of "girly-girl" outlooks made me laugh. Most girls I know are halfway between being utter guys and loving girly stuff. Even the ones with "normal" parents.

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 02:24 PM
I wasn't talking about level but non-existing background and improvised personality, not the main plot device npc, but the poor randomly spawned female peasant collecting chickens off the streets.

Age 17. Raised by her father after her mother died in child birth. Took up chicken farming instead of the usual professions given to women because her family has a long running line of chicken farmers in her blood, and her father didn't get a boy to carry on the legacy. Has an infatuation with the boy that helps the local tavern owner run his inn. Enjoys being a seamtress as a hobby and dreams of make a magnificent quilt for a noble. Dark Brown hair and eyes. Height... 5 foot 8'. Bit tallish for the town. She's been raised on chickens and scrap wheat and corn. So, her meat servings are a little lean and so she's pretty skinny. Named Samantha Welles. Currently suffered a slight limp after falling down in the ditch last week. Reasonably attractive. Scruffy around the edges from chasing chickens. 12 Charisma. 7 int. 11 Wisdom. 8 dex (after penalty). 9 strength. 12 Con (from all the exercise).

...And that was literally thought up faster than it was taking me to type it. The whole of that backstory took about a minute total. Not all fleshed out NPCs need be super important to the plot. Having a human element here and there really helps to flesh out the game and make it feel more alive. I'm not saying to flesh out every single character, but giving a personality and life to the random bartender or chicken-raising peasant does have its advantages.

Theorhetically, these are all human beings. Only the gameplay manages to abstract that. So, the reality is that the world's not full of boring people, just people your players abstract. Someone doesn't need to be a major NPC or PC to be the heartthrob of the village. This stuff happens often in the background. So no. Your PCs and major NPCs aren't the only ones that are allowed to have levels of attractiveness and character depth. It's honestly not THAT unusual for a PC to fall in love with the girl from the village that the GM had no real plans for, especially if you bother to give your window dressing NPCs a little personality.

Cogidubnus
2010-06-11, 02:26 PM
I'm surprised this (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20091124.html) and then this (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20091207.html) haven't been referenced before tbh.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 02:32 PM
I was raised by my tomboy (video-gaming, she owns a NES, SNES, Game Boy, you name she has it) mom and my tabletop/larping/videogaming older brother. There was no 'Girly Girl' out look. Because in the Grim Darkness of the future, there is only war nerdy hobbies.


Are you single and what is the weather like in Indiana?

:)

Cogidubnus
2010-06-11, 02:34 PM
Are you single and what is the weather like in Indiana?

:)

One hopes you're joking XD

Dairun Cates
2010-06-11, 02:35 PM
I'm surprised this (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20091124.html) and then this (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20091207.html) haven't been referenced before tbh.

I'm surprised min-max is into grannies if the location of those bubbles is to be believe. Either that or that's one talkative 16 charisma granny.


Are you single and what is the weather like in Indiana?

:)

Oh come on! We already covered this!

Eloi
2010-06-11, 02:36 PM
Are you single and what is the weather like in Indiana?

:)

My mind is so scattered, I am not single. Tho' I am still alone as they still intermingle. The weather is a shadowed drapery of gloom all through out. Not very good weather for going out and about.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 02:37 PM
One hopes you're joking XD

I am :)

Nice poem though Eloi! I feel mildly courted. In a gothy, MPD sort of way.

Eloi
2010-06-11, 02:43 PM
I am :)

Nice poem though Eloi! I feel mildly courted. In a gothy, MPD sort of way.

I have a myriad of problems but MPD is not one of them, I was merely being poetic.

Alas there is a problem with my spontaneous verse. Its all dark and gloomy, rebuking the curses is in itself a curse.

Bharg
2010-06-11, 02:43 PM
Age 17. Raised by her father after her mother died in child birth. Took up chicken farming instead of the usual professions given to women because her family has a long running line of chicken farmers in her blood, and her father didn't get a boy to carry on the legacy. Has an infatuation with the boy that helps the local tavern owner run his inn. Enjoys being a seamtress as a hobby and dreams of make a magnificent quilt for a noble. Dark Brown hair and eyes. Height... 5 foot 8'. Bit tallish for the town. She's been raised on chickens and scrap wheat and corn. So, her meat servings are a little lean and so she's pretty skinny. Named Samantha Welles. Currently suffered a slight limp after falling down in the ditch last week. Reasonably attractive. Scruffy around the edges from chasing chickens. 12 Charisma. 7 int. 11 Wisdom. 8 dex (after penalty). 9 strength. 12 Con (from all the exercise).

...And that was literally thought up faster than it was taking me to type it. The whole of that backstory took about a minute total. Not all fleshed out NPCs need be super important to the plot. Having a human element here and there really helps to flesh out the game and make it feel more alive. I'm not saying to flesh out every single character, but giving a personality and life to the random bartender or chicken-raising peasant does have its advantages.

Theorhetically, these are all human beings. Only the gameplay manages to abstract that. So, the reality is that the world's not full of boring people, just people your players abstract. Someone doesn't need to be a major NPC or PC to be the heartthrob of the village. This stuff happens often in the background. So no. Your PCs and major NPCs aren't the only ones that are allowed to have levels of attractiveness and character depth. It's honestly not THAT unusual for a PC to fall in love with the girl from the village that the GM had no real plans for, especially if you bother to give your window dressing NPCs a little personality.

Off the market, plain? Nice background, though.

What about the parrot, poet?

Umael
2010-06-11, 02:43 PM
Oh come on! We already covered this!

!

...

*scan*

...

Nope. Someone was amazed that AstralFire had a girlfriend who played RPGs, but no one has hit on Eloi yet in this thread.

Carry on.

Cogidubnus
2010-06-11, 02:46 PM
!

...

*scan*

...

Nope. Someone was amazed that AstralFire had a girlfriend who played RPGs, but no one has hit on Eloi yet in this thread.

Carry on.

Well, good, we've done it now, now we can all carrying on feeling like slightly worse people :smalltongue:
Eloi, incidentally, you remind me a lot of a friend of mine.

russdm
2010-06-11, 02:49 PM
Is there a requirement to hit on someone here?

Pretty much everything i have to say has already been said and by multiple posters.

As for Sex and the City, my sister liked it, i found it strange and completely unrelated to how things happen for real women. Nothing a real woman would experience ever happened on the show, so it makes no since why it is described as being truthful in any way to real life. It has even been described as the "new feminist ideal".

Bharg
2010-06-11, 02:57 PM
You know way too much about that show, do you? :smallconfused:

AstralFire
2010-06-11, 03:00 PM
You got your girlfriend to play D&D? Where'd you meet her?

Just noticed this.

I didn't.

She's a bigger gamer than I am. :smallamused: I specialize in a few systems and engage frequently in homebrew, she plays systems I've never even heard of from anyone else with great regularity. We actually first met online in a chatroom, she mentioned RP and I took her aside to show her a character journal I'd been writing as part of my second D&D campaign ever.

russdm
2010-06-11, 03:00 PM
What? I only watched a couple of episodes with my sister.

Then i read a newsweek article that mentioned the show, and heard some stuff about it, read the wikipedia thing maybe actually dont recall if i did or not.

I have always had the fantasy of getting a gamer girl or nerd/geek girl because it would be awesome. This is not actually important in any way, but its fun to admit it.

Kiren
2010-06-11, 03:10 PM
I was raised by my tomboy (video-gaming, she owns a NES, SNES, Game Boy, you name she has it) mom and my tabletop/larping/videogaming older brother. There was no 'Girly Girl' out look. Because in the Grim Darkness of the future, there is only war nerdy hobbies.

Thats a lucky upbringing lol. On another note... Yay darkness!.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 03:10 PM
Someone thinks its odd to have a GF who RPs? That's weird.

My ex wife is the one who got me started playing in the first place. It took some convincing, too. We are divorced now but she is still in my main gaming group. Alternates weekly between the game I run and the one a friend runs. We get along fine at the table :)

ap

edit: Eloi, do you mean the robo parrot from the Sci Fi toy thread? Combat Drone and Scout Drone are already on the list, I would let the PCs take either on in parrot form if so desired. The other uses (data drive, etc.) are awesome but they are pretty much covered in the standard gear the PCs get.

Ellye
2010-06-11, 03:26 PM
Many of my female friends play RPGs, CRPGs, and the like.
Really, I believe we're considerable past the time that this was a rare sight.

Bharg
2010-06-11, 03:32 PM
Someone thinks its odd to have a GF who RPs? That's weird.

My ex wife is the one who got me started playing in the first place. It took some convincing, too. We are divorced now but she is still in my main gaming group. Alternates weekly between the game I run and the one a friend runs. We get along fine at the table :)

ap

edit: Eloi, do you mean the robo parrot from the Sci Fi toy thread? Combat Drone and Scout Drone are already on the list, I would let the PCs take either on in parrot form if so desired. The other uses (data drive, etc.) are awesome but they are pretty much covered in the standard gear the PCs get.

Meow, Eloi, huh? No, me, I was just trying to find a use for the parrot and yes some of it was already listed.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 03:35 PM
Meow, Eloi, huh? No, me, I was just trying to find a use for the parrot and yes some of it was already listed.

Sorry I got confuzed

Bharg
2010-06-11, 03:39 PM
But it is useful and also very piratey, isn't it?

@russdm: I was just kidding :>

russdm
2010-06-11, 03:42 PM
But it is useful and also very piratey, isn't it

But Pirate girls are cute!

Umm, yeah, what someone said...

SITC was more strange to me. didn't understand it at all, but i really liked Kim Cattrell (SP?) character.

Another_Poet
2010-06-11, 05:06 PM
But it is useful and also very piratey, isn't it?

@russdm: I was just kidding :>


Aye !!

also aye! for character count!

Quincunx
2010-06-11, 05:25 PM
The published matriarchies also fail because they're bereft both of men and of masculine viewpoint in the women. There's nothing left of the normal world (which, y'know, has guys and guy influence) for the mind to grab hold of and familiarize itself with the society. I'm not sure of the tipping point. Over half women by population works. Fully female society with pride in masculine traits (aggressive Amazons focused on physical toughness; a nunnery run with the ruthlessness of a modern corporation; druids whose noblest goal is the ecosystem at the expense of the individual) works. Lack of internal logic is the kiss of death for the feminist system, since the logic of "that's how things are in the real world" isn't there to take the slack.


I envy you. I was working at a movie theater when the first movie was out.

(pours you a hot chocolate shot) You have earned this, friend, for surviving that dreck.

Ormur
2010-06-12, 01:38 AM
Ah, well caught a few episodes of Sex and the City and I though it was okay despite being male (okay I've seen most of them). Of course they aren't realistic depictions of single, middle aged, upper middle class, New York women. It only focuses on their relationships, sex and clothes but that's what the show was about and the story wasn't that bad considering. Much less cheesy than most romantic comedies I've seen although I've heard the films are much worse.

Eloi
2010-06-12, 01:42 AM
Ah, well caught a few episodes of Sex and the City and I though it was okay despite being male (okay I've seen most of them). Of course they aren't realistic depictions of single, middle aged, upper middle class, New York women. It only focuses on their relationships, sex and clothes but that's what the show was about and the story wasn't that bad considering. Much less cheesy than most romantic comedies I've seen although I've heard the films are much worse.

And for folks thinking we are derailing the thread: we aren't!
Sex and the City is about four female characters who are non-players. Thus they are Female Non-Player Characters and we haven't strayed from the original topic at all.

Ormur
2010-06-12, 01:56 AM
Unless I just missed the D&D episode.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 02:15 AM
The published matriarchies also fail because they're bereft both of men and of masculine viewpoint in the women. There's nothing left of the normal world (which, y'know, has guys and guy influence) for the mind to grab hold of and familiarize itself with the society. I'm not sure of the tipping point. Over half women by population works. Fully female society with pride in masculine traits (aggressive Amazons focused on physical toughness; a nunnery run with the ruthlessness of a modern corporation; druids whose noblest goal is the ecosystem at the expense of the individual) works. Lack of internal logic is the kiss of death for the feminist system, since the logic of "that's how things are in the real world" isn't there to take the slack.
[...]

Huh? :smallconfused:

How many female societies created by WOTC are there? I can only think of the drow.

Eloi
2010-06-12, 02:22 AM
Huh? :smallconfused:

How many female societies created by WOTC are there? I can only think of the drow.
Bazareene, Githyanki (led by Lich-Queen Vlaakith), Matriarchy of Hardby in Greyhawk, are all female-ruled.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 03:15 AM
And they're not manly manly enough?

Eloi
2010-06-12, 03:18 AM
And they're not manly manly enough?

:smallconfused: What?

Bharg
2010-06-12, 03:22 AM
* points to Quincunx* What he said.

Eloi
2010-06-12, 03:32 AM
* points to Quincunx* What he said.

I'm unsure what he said. That the appropriation of masculine traits for a female ruling society makes it unrealistic/pointless? But isn't 'ruling stuff' a masculine trait in of itself? I mean, otherwise I wouldn't have to specify it was a 'matriarchy' and have so few examples to provide of that.

Quincunx
2010-06-12, 05:06 AM
The will to power is a neutral trait as I see it, but in the way it's expressed can have a flavor masculine or feminine. The army commander who sets into motion seven feints at once to divide and conquer by playing on the other armies' fears and prejudice--social manipulation--is exercising power in a more feminine form than the army commander whose feints deceive the enemies' notions of troop strength and planning and other objectives. Think of I, Claudius and the campaign against the British barbarians. The Emperor imports camels just to frighten the British ponies, tasks elephants to break the 'impassable' bramble fortifications, and disguises one of his men as a local god to scatter a company of the enemy away from advantageous ground. It all works and the Romans win with little bloodshed, and yet the men still don't respect Claudius as a battle commander because he won with 'tricks' that had nothing to do with raw power.

The number of WotC matriarchies I know about has just doubled, thank you Eloi, but researching them will have to wait 'til I get to a gaming shop since Google is being most unhelpful. ("Bazaarene" returns a lot of Swedish and Danish pages talking about bazaars, and nothing about roleplaying.) For credibility's sake, though, the ones I know could have done better than to choose a different line between the 'haves' and 'have-nots' than what's between the legs. The black Amazons of one of the Conan comic compilations divide their society into "warriors" and "slaves"; seeing men and women of various colors all being treated as toerags because they don't know swordplay, and Conan himself not being disrespected because he does, our minds grab onto that explanation and don't count that all the armed warriors clashing tankards and sparking off alcohol-fueled brawls are female. We don't have to wrestle with the dogmatic nature of flesh-based privilege.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 05:28 AM
So... why are all your female npcs homosexual, Eloi?

Eloi
2010-06-12, 05:31 AM
So... why are all your female npcs homosexual, Eloi?

Because I suck at making male NPC's, like I said earlier.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 05:41 AM
I don't get it :smallbiggrin:

Eloi
2010-06-12, 05:46 AM
I don't get it :smallbiggrin:

:smallannoyed: In a heterosexual couple you have to include a male, and unless all of my NPC's are devoid of relationships at all, I would have to make a bunch of male NPC's to complete the couple. However, if its a homosexual couple, there is no need to have any male NPC's because they're both female.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 05:58 AM
And why have you given up on trying to play male npcs? It can't be that hard. Let them do some manly stuff like... scratch their chin and wear trousers.

Eloi
2010-06-12, 06:02 AM
And why have you given up on trying to play male npcs? It can't be that hard. Let them do some manly stuff like... scratch their chin and wear trousers.

Me:"So you meet this guy, and he says "Lo, the dragon has attacked us! Save the village"
Player:"If its a guy why doesn't it sound like one? Are you even trying?"
Me: "They're scratching their chin and wearing trousers."
Player: So it is a guy!

Bharg
2010-06-12, 06:06 AM
It's just because of your voice? :smalleek:
What about:
Me:"So you meet this guy, and he says, "Lo, the dragon has attacked us! Save the village", in a very manly manner.
Player:"Oooh, I'd fall for him..." :smallredface:
Me: "They're scratching their chin and wearing trousers."
Player: [Censored]

Eloi
2010-06-12, 06:16 AM
It's just because of your voice? :smalleek:
What about:
Me:"So you meet this guy, and he says, "Lo, the dragon has attacked us! Save the village", in a very manly manner.
Player:"Oooh, I'd fall for him..." :smallredface:
Me: "They're scratching their chin and wearing trousers."
Player: [Censored]

Kind of a strange reaction from my mostly heterosexual male group, but y'know, that chin-scratching and trouser-wearing breaks the very barriers of reality.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 06:19 AM
Kind of a strange reaction from my mostly heterosexual male group, but y'know, that chin-scratching and trouser-wearing breaks the very barriers of reality.
Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it. You never know until you actually try.

Mostly heterosexual male group? They are not permanently trying to convert your Npcs?

Mr.Moron
2010-06-12, 07:06 AM
I've mostly given up hope on my D&D group when it comes to female NPCs and a lot of other things frankly. One player in particular is annoying in the extreme. He insists on yelling out "DOUBLE DS!!!111111" every single time one of his female characters comes up. He can't stop talking about brothels, whore houses, and taking the corpses of defeated female enemies "Behind the wagon". I've just had to learn to zone out for most of it.

Luckily, I'll be running for a game for different people under a different system and I doubt they'll have the same problems.

Eloi
2010-06-12, 07:17 AM
I've mostly given up hope on my D&D group when it comes to female NPCs and a lot of other things frankly. One player in particular is annoying in the extreme. He insists on yelling out "DOUBLE DS!!!111111" every single time one of his female characters comes up. He can't stop talking about brothels, whore houses, and taking the corpses of defeated female enemies "Behind the wagon".

Wow that player has issues. One wonders how the hell he interacts with real females...


Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it. You never know until you actually try.

Mostly heterosexual male group? They are not permanently trying to convert your Npcs?
The most I've heard regarding that, which isn't much, is that they find it hot.

AstralFire
2010-06-12, 07:22 AM
I've mostly given up hope on my D&D group when it comes to female NPCs and a lot of other things frankly. One player in particular is annoying in the extreme. He insists on yelling out "DOUBLE DS!!!111111" every single time one of his female characters comes up. He can't stop talking about brothels, whore houses, and taking the corpses of defeated female enemies "Behind the wagon". I've just had to learn to zone out for most of it.

Luckily, I'll be running for a game for different people under a different system and I doubt they'll have the same problems.

That's pathetic. I can't believe you have to deal with people like that. :|

2xMachina
2010-06-12, 07:25 AM
Wow that player has issues. One wonders how the hell he interacts with real females...


The most I've heard regarding that, which isn't much, is that they find it hot.

Hopefully, he's like Dan of AGC (the fireman pyromaniac)

Naia
2010-06-12, 07:26 AM
Wow that player has issues. One wonders how the hell he interacts with real females...

My guess is - he doesn't... :smallwink:

Bharg
2010-06-12, 07:28 AM
I've mostly given up hope on my D&D group when it comes to female NPCs and a lot of other things frankly. One player in particular is annoying in the extreme. He insists on yelling out "DOUBLE DS!!!111111" every single time one of his female characters comes up. He can't stop talking about brothels, whore houses, and taking the corpses of defeated female enemies "Behind the wagon". I've just had to learn to zone out for most of it.

Luckily, I'll be running for a game for different people under a different system and I doubt they'll have the same problems.

I can't believe you can't deal with people like that.

Is he that stubborn?

Cogidubnus
2010-06-12, 07:29 AM
My guess is - he doesn't... :smallwink:

Seconded, at least if he's anything like a similar guy I know XD.

Bharg
2010-06-12, 07:31 AM
My guess is - he doesn't... :smallwink:

...taking the corpses of defeated female enemies "Behind the wagon". :smallyuk:

Bharg
2010-06-12, 07:43 AM
The most I've heard regarding that, which isn't much, is that they find it hot.

You should interview them more often.