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Falconer
2010-06-16, 11:03 PM
You have performed the foulest of dark rituals, and thrown off the shackles of mere mortality to become a powerful lord of the undead. You will live forever, free to grow in knowledge and power. You are a lich, and your might will terrorize the world until the end of time.



But of course, there's that whole "phylactery" thing. You know, that thing that, if it's destroyed, makes you entirely kill-able? So naturally, many liches in D&D-land ward their phylacteries with magic, and hide them in the most secure place they know of.

And so, ladies and gentlemen, how would YOU protect a phylactery? As I'm aiming for more creative responses, let's say you're someplace below level 20, though whether you're an arcane or divine caster is up to you.

So now, Playground, it's time for us to bring out our impenetrable fortresses, psychotic traps, and utterly paranoid spells...to protect that one shiny little bauble.

Jarian
2010-06-16, 11:05 PM
The obvious answer is genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) + your choice of barring interdimensional travel.

Though I suppose that depends on how far below 20th level you were talking.

chiasaur11
2010-06-16, 11:05 PM
Magnificent mansion.

No style, but it seems workable.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-16, 11:13 PM
Even if you don't have access to Genesis, having a Forbiddance up isn't a bad idea unless you're really buying into the 'security from obscurity' idea.

PId6
2010-06-16, 11:19 PM
Why, I'd slap it as an amulet on my highest-level minion, then have him follow me around on all my missions of world conquest. The heroes would never expect it.

Douglas
2010-06-16, 11:28 PM
The really creative one I remember from a similar thread a while back goes like this:
1) Acquire a Bag of Holding
2) Enter an Antimagic Field
3) Place phylactery inside BoH
4) Leave AMF
5) Laugh maniacally as your enemies futilely search everywhere except the (non-extra-dimensional) interior of the bag. Unless it's inside an AMF, reaching into the bag accesses the magical storage area, which is not where your phylactery is - and who's going to reach into a Bag of Holding deliberately when its magic has been turned off?

Add spells, wards, and other magical protections on the phylactery itself to taste.

Mark Hall
2010-06-16, 11:31 PM
You know, creating a permanent Magnificent Mansion at a certain place at extremely high altitude would work pretty well. Overland Flight to about 30,000 feat above a significant landmark (preferably near the middle of an ocean), create a permanent magnificent mansion, and layer some nondetection spells on it.

You're hugely away from anyone, meaning a lot of spells have to strain to reach you. No one can get into your sanctum, even if they do manage to find the specific 32 square feet of it in the middle of the sky well away from everything.

gallagher
2010-06-16, 11:32 PM
i would do what Xykon did. give it to a high level cleric, protect it and beat the heck out of anyone who comes close. DMM the heck out of anyone and never give it up.

or give it to the oldest dragon possible who has his clan all close by. or put it somehow inside a tarrasque and have my cleric persist all the buffs that will keep it safe

Starscream
2010-06-16, 11:35 PM
Find some way to ward it against stomach acid, and then feed it to the Tarrasque.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-16, 11:35 PM
The really creative one I remember from a similar thread a while back goes like this:
1) Acquire a Bag of Holding
2) Enter an Antimagic Field
3) Place phylactery inside BoH
4) Leave AMF
5) Laugh maniacally as your enemies futilely search everywhere except the (non-extra-dimensional) interior of the bag. Unless it's inside an AMF, reaching into the bag accesses the magical storage area, which is not where your phylactery is - and who's going to reach into a Bag of Holding deliberately when its magic has been turned off?

Add spells, wards, and other magical protections on the phylactery itself to taste.Very clever, but since the adventurers will steal whatever isn't nailed down, doesn't that mean you'll re-form next to them?

Ashiel
2010-06-16, 11:36 PM
I've been rather fond of hiding it in a different galaxy or planet, in addition to the usual methods (private sanctum, etc). Really, you're dealing with your immortal soul. You can't be too careful.

I love the bag of holding idea, by the way.

PId6
2010-06-16, 11:39 PM
Find some way to ward it against stomach acid, and then feed it to the Tarrasque.
Wouldn't you need some natural acid immunity then when you regenerate?

Curmudgeon
2010-06-16, 11:47 PM
The Genesis approach is solid. But I like a more elaborate scenario. Use Modify Memory on anyone who ever touched any of the bits used in the phylactery's creation, then Trap the Soul on each of them into a gem, and use the gems as a components in other spells. That should make it very hard for anyone to figure out even what the phylactery looks like.

Cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and craft your phylactery in there, hiding behind Forbiddance and Mind Blank; that way nothing like Stone Tell can reveal any details. When done, drop the Forbiddance and Plane Shift to any random plane that includes stone and dirt, re-cast Forbiddance, and then Hidden Lodge (Spell Compendium, pages 113-114) where there's plenty of dirt. Inside the Hidden Lodge cast Move Earth to dig a deep hole. Add water (from a Decanter of Endless Water) and cast Transmute Mud to Rock to make a thick (more than 3') stone base. Drop your phylactery, weighted down with lead, on top, and use Move Earth to cover it deeply. Repeat the water and Transmute Mud to Rock until it's covered with plenty of stone to block divination spells. Smooth out the rest of the earth on top. Drop Forbiddance and return to your home plane. The Hidden Lodge will disappear the next day, leaving no special trace of your presence there.

AtopTheMountain
2010-06-16, 11:51 PM
Implant it into the body of a small fish, preferably a member of a large school, then toss it back into the ocean. When the fish dies, kill yourself, regenerate by the phylactery, and repeat.

RndmNumGen
2010-06-16, 11:51 PM
Very clever, but since the adventurers will steal whatever isn't nailed down, doesn't that mean you'll re-form next to them?

Or reform inside the bag? Wouldn't be too comfortable...

Zeful
2010-06-16, 11:55 PM
Very clever, but since the adventurers will steal whatever isn't nailed down, doesn't that mean you'll re-form next to them?
That is not covered by the rules. The Lich reforms exactly where the DM commands, if that is by the phylactery (Icewind Dale, OotS) so be it.

Ormagoden
2010-06-16, 11:57 PM
Become a Demilich.

Find the closest Hecatoncheires and insert yourself into a piece of jewelry it wears.

Have fun slaying gods until you are one.

Maerok
2010-06-16, 11:57 PM
Would hiding it in the Elemental Plane of Lead prevent one from reforming?


Edit:

As previously mentioned, the SRD text is:
"Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death."

It doesn't say that the lich spawns from the phylactery. They could possibly phase in to any single location that has been meaningful.

Starscream
2010-06-17, 12:01 AM
Wouldn't you need some natural acid immunity then when you regenerate?

Hmmm. Well, you can use most anything as a phylactery, so why not have it be a ring of acid immunity? You'll reform right next to it, put it on, and then can teleport to safety at your leisure.

Other idea. Use a bag of holding as your phylactery. Put it in a portable hole, and it will be "forever lost" (but not destroyed). Dunno where you'll regenerate, probably somewhere like the far realms, or some uncharted place on the astral plane. Then plane shift back to reality.

Warpwolf16
2010-06-17, 12:04 AM
I say leave it on a spelljammer that floats in wild space only piolted by another undead sorcerer of some sorts. It floats above the world in question and when the lich is destroyed he regrows on the spell jammer.

0Megabyte
2010-06-17, 12:04 AM
First of all, I would wear a large red ruby on my chest. I'd make a very big show of making clear that that is not my phylactery, and in fact my phylactery is actually someplace else. The ruby would be trapped, too. The stupid ones would believe me. They might go on to stage two. Smart ones would figure I was lying, and when they destroyed my body, they would take the ruby, only to find out it was trapped. (and not the phylactery.) The smarter ones would realize it was a trap.

If they searched, they would find a well hidden spot with an object dear to me from my childhood. Something that they had to fight hard to find, and would be certain would be the real phylactery. This would be trapped as heavily as I could, with every spell and plan I could manage.

Naturally, that object, too, would be a red herring.

The real one would be an ordinary item the PC's wouldn't think to destroy, such as a minor magic item they'd figure was look, perhaps something like a ring of resistance +1 there with the rest of the treasure. Something they'd sell off without noticing, while going off looking for the more grandiose possibilities.

Crafty Cultist
2010-06-17, 12:09 AM
Have your phylactery provide other magical effects, including one to hide its soul containing properties. for bonus points, make it able to slowly possess or control its user. the hero who loots your body will become your pawn.

Mastikator
2010-06-17, 12:12 AM
I'd put it inside a portable hole, inside a bag of holding, inside a ropetrick inside a genesis. Put nondetections on every level.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-06-17, 12:14 AM
A Coin. With Magic Aura to cover any magical traces. Given to a dragon to then place in his hoard. Then either Modify Memory or simply Mindrape to make said dragon forget about this, or ever even having seen you.

Even if the party finds it, they likely won't know what it is, and it will be just another coin in their party treasury. Which is the safest place it can possibly be, because we all know how fiercely an adventuring band guards their treasure...

Yrcrazypa
2010-06-17, 12:15 AM
Have your phylactery provide other magical effects, including one to hide its soul containing properties. for bonus points, make it able to slowly possess or control its user. the hero who loots your body will become your pawn.

I did a campaign like that once. It was one of the best I've ever done.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-06-17, 12:41 AM
Have your phylactery provide other magical effects, including one to hide its soul containing properties. for bonus points, make it able to slowly possess or control its user. the hero who loots your body will become your pawn.

I dunno, it didn't turn out so well for Saruon...

Dracons
2010-06-17, 12:41 AM
Make phylactery. Make it fireproof. Put it inside magical golem that is also immune to all elements and can swim. Put Golem inside a perment Magnifiit Mansion that has all oxygen drained from it, and filled with negative energy trait. Have this Mansion in the deep part of a deep ocean of fire in plane of fire. Have a cotinency spell that if it loses 3/4 of its HP, then it has an automatic dispel anchor or anytype of stopping teleport spell, then have it plane shift to a set place in plane of water with a beacon to tell you that it's been found. Take it, find it, rehide it somewhere again with above spells. Cast modify memory on yourself to make you forget yourself where it is.



BTW: No-one ones to know what I did with the epic lich. Party just gave up trying to destroy it forever as they cannot find all the pieces of its phylactry.

Ravingdork
2010-06-17, 01:02 AM
I plan to make my phylactery out of a grain of sand. I will than toss it into the middle of the campaign's largest desert...that resides on another planet.

Lord Raziere
2010-06-17, 01:10 AM
just make the phylactery some generic ring than sell it to some merchant. who would possibly find it? it looks like every other ring in existence.

alternatively, make your phylactery some random farmers tool. those things can last for years.

RndmNumGen
2010-06-17, 01:14 AM
I think I like the minor magical item more than insignificant items, like sand or gold. Such common things are in such quantity that not a lot of care is taken to guard them, and they may accidentally be destroyed. Minor magical items may be insignificant enough that whoever is strong enough to defeat you would just sell off, while being valuable enough to be carefully guarded.

I also like the bag of holding tricks, though.

Raistlin1040
2010-06-17, 01:30 AM
I would hide it under my mattress.

Ravingdork
2010-06-17, 01:31 AM
I think I like the minor magical item more than insignificant items, like sand or gold. Such common things are in such quantity that not a lot of care is taken to guard them, and they may accidentally be destroyed. Minor magical items may be insignificant enough that whoever is strong enough to defeat you would just sell off, while being valuable enough to be carefully guarded.

I also like the bag of holding tricks, though.

Accidentally destroyed with a hardness of 20? I highly doubt that!

Vaynor
2010-06-17, 01:57 AM
I would hide it under my mattress.

Clearly the sock drawer is the optimal choice.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-06-17, 02:38 AM
I'd start out by pretending not to be a lich. Get myself elected to the High Council of Magisters, or something. You know, politics.

Then I'd leave a trail of clues to show that I've stashed something in the Council's deepest vault.
This something would be a tracing / alarm device, which alerts me that someone is disturbing it, and acts as window for my special crystal ball to scry on, so I know who it is who is interfering with my secret stash.

My actual phylactery would be covered in all the non-detection magic I can invent, and would be a replica of some mundane but sacred relic of a respected (but non-good) church.

boj0
2010-06-17, 10:25 AM
1.Have my phylactery be a piece of paper.
2.Place in inside of a Book of infinite Spells
3.Cast standard protection and nondetection spells
4.Bring to the most heavily guarded library on Mechanus
5.Using copious amounts of gate, genesis, polymorph any object, and mindrape, move said library to my own personal plane.
6.City Bomb the previous location of library.
7.Create several max HD iron golems with goodies to guard former location.
8.Let it "leak" through mindraped minions that my phylactery is somewhere on Mechanus, possibly a library. Also, a group of the characters' enemies have discovered this location. :smalltongue:
9.Have adventurers search an infinite sized plane to get the possability of locating the ruins, only to fight several golems, and then find nothing.

CoffeeIncluded
2010-06-17, 11:06 AM
A coin that fell behind my nightstand. Or a random book on my bookshelf.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-17, 11:20 AM
A coin that fell behind my nightstand. Or a random book on my bookshelf.Trouble is, any Detect Magic spell would find it, and someoen is going to wonder "why is there an 'ordinary' coin that radiates magic behind a nightstand.
If I was a druid lich (nothing says you can't, TMK and nothing says Eternal Guardian of the Forest like, well, an eternal guardian of the forest), I would hide it in a tree, sapling, of along lived species in a forest full of long lived species the wood growing around it, eventually providing more then enough protection.
Obscure and secure.

RelentlessImp
2010-06-17, 11:40 AM
The really creative one I remember from a similar thread a while back goes like this:
1) Acquire a Bag of Holding
2) Enter an Antimagic Field
3) Place phylactery inside BoH
4) Leave AMF
5) Laugh maniacally as your enemies futilely search everywhere except the (non-extra-dimensional) interior of the bag. Unless it's inside an AMF, reaching into the bag accesses the magical storage area, which is not where your phylactery is - and who's going to reach into a Bag of Holding deliberately when its magic has been turned off?

Add spells, wards, and other magical protections on the phylactery itself to taste.

Minor refinements:
1) Acquire 2 Bags of Holding
2) Place Phylactery in Bag of Holding A.
3) Enter Anti-Magic Field
4) Place Bag of Holding A in Bag of Holding B.
5) Leave AMF.
6) Laugh maniacally as now it really can't be found, as they'd first have to figure out that there's another Bag hidden in the non-extradimensional confines of a Bag of Holding, and the phylactery is inside the extradimensional confines of the second Bag of Holding.

Repeat for as many iterations as you want/can afford, alternating between non-extradimensional portions and extradimensional portions.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 11:46 AM
If I was a druid lich (nothing says you can't, TMK and nothing says Eternal Guardian of the Forest like, well, an eternal guardian of the forest), I would hide it in a tree, sapling, of along lived species in a forest full of long lived species the wood growing around it, eventually providing more then enough protection.
Obscure and secure.

Yep. Lossarwyn the Ice Lich was a 18 level druid/ 1 level hierophant (If I remembered right) and a leader and/or supporter of the Eldreth Veluuthra in forgotten realms.


Someone in the boards said he'd make his spellbook his phylactery, and then put it in libary of magical lore. (Like Candlekeep). No-one would look twice about a magical book there. There is also a spell somewhere that makes you always look past an item (I forget what it is. You supposely just plain ignore it for whatever reason, it's not invisible, you just ignore it) which could be put on it and BAM. Perfect place to hide it.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 11:47 AM
Minor refinements:
1) Acquire 2 Bags of Holding
2) Place Phylactery in Bag of Holding A.
3) Enter Anti-Magic Field
4) Place Bag of Holding A in Bag of Holding B.
5) Leave AMF.
6) Laugh maniacally as now it really can't be found, as they'd first have to figure out that there's another Bag hidden in the non-extradimensional confines of a Bag of Holding, and the phylactery is inside the extradimensional confines of the second Bag of Holding.

Repeat for as many iterations as you want/can afford, alternating between non-extradimensional portions and extradimensional portions.


Why oh why do people think this is such a great idea? Seriously? How many people would not take that, leave anti-magic area and look inside later?

Kiren
2010-06-17, 11:48 AM
Implant your Phylactery where your heart would be. I wouldn't look there.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-06-17, 11:54 AM
Why oh why do people think this is such a great idea? Seriously? How many people would not take that, leave anti-magic area and look inside later?

Leave what antimagic area? The PCs find a Bag of Holding in a normal treasure horde, no antimagic or other shenanigans. When they open it, they see an extradimensional space containing loot, and possibly a decoy spellbook and phylactery. No suspicion that there's a true phylactery anywhere inside. If the PCs go into an antimagic field and look in the bag, then they'll find it; but how likely are they to do that?

Comments on the idea:
1) You reform next to your phylactery. Quite possibly next to the people who killed you. To counteract this, you'd either want to make them not keep the bag, or be able to fit in the bag without suspicion. Make it cursed to be abnormally small capacity or abnormally large weight? Have a Box of Holding, maybe?
2) Add a secret compartment (CSco) to the container you use, for another layer of mundane protection.

Morph Bark
2010-06-17, 11:56 AM
I'll just re-post what I posted earlier today in another thread:

"Before becoming a lich, found a great magical library and make sure all the books' pages are filled with explosive runes (possibly metamagicked up the wazoo; could use sepia snake sigil in combination as well), but still all with relevant information about magic, items, monsters, you name it. Have everyone who comes in the library be subjected to a spell that makes it so that they won't trigger the spell. Find a way to make it so that the magical effects cannot be dispelled (either have the no-explosive-triggering spell disable casters from casting spells like dispel magic and disjunction or use a high-level magic item or artefact). Make your phylactery into a book of sorts. Make your phylactery immune to force damage and whatever else you think it might need to be resistant to. Put it in a prohibited section of the library. Allow undead spellcasters in the library.

Now what good does this? If you die, you come back to a location you own that is frequented by magic-users, which may be willing to help you or whom would attack your foes anyway if they came to the library to protect the vast precious knowledge it contains. Plus, if your enemies sneak into your library in search for your phylactery (if they ever find out it is there), they won't be subjected to the spell that prevents the triggering of explosive runes (and potentially sepia snake sigil) and will cause all the explosive runes in the library to go off. If they even survive, they will likely be targeted by a horde of anrgy spellcasters who frequented the library. The best part? Your phylactery is still intact."


This is also nicely combineable with the Bag of Holding idea and the "mansion in the sky" idea from the first page. Instead of a mansion in the sky, it'd be a library in the sky that only qualified, trusted spellcasters would have access to via the use of highly specified magic rings that teleport them to the library entrance upon speaking the command word. The spells protection you from triggering the explosive runes and sepia snake sigils all throughout the library's books could simply be in effect while the ring is worn.

In fact, you could end up founding a whole big organization of spellcasters that hoards their knowledge in the library in the sky, and likely they would protect it well with many spells of their own, as well as minions of all sorts (undead and constructs abound, as well as dungeonbred abberations, animals and magical creatures).

Ravens_cry
2010-06-17, 11:57 AM
Implant your Phylactery where your heart would be. I wouldn't look there.
Two words: Detect Magic.
Make a little lead case, put the phylactery in the case, put THAT where your heart used to be, then we will talk.

Morph Bark
2010-06-17, 12:05 PM
Two words: Detect Magic.
Make a little lead case, put the phylactery in the case, put THAT where your heart used to be, then we will talk.

Also, your phylactery is now DIAMONDS! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE)

Seriously though, wouldn't that be one of the best non-magical, material protections of all?

Myou
2010-06-17, 12:33 PM
I like the idea of making another lich your phylactery. If possible have multiple liches who are eachother's. To kill any one lich requires killing all of them, and all within a time limit. Plus it's the only way I know to get a regenerating phylactery.

Mongoose87
2010-06-17, 12:34 PM
I'd keep it in the tank for the toilet, which I would line with lead. No one would check a Lich's toilet.

Altarus
2010-06-17, 12:37 PM
Taking the idea of Druid Lich.

Get a tree. Use awaken on it and befriend it. Or better yet, using the vilest magic you can find, twist it into a evil perverse tree with great powers. Or you could get a Night Twist from MM3. Then turn it into your phylactery. Corrupt and defile anything and everything within a one mile radius of your phylactery for added precaution.

If it resembles the Saigyou Ayakashi (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Saigyou_Ayakashi), a demonic vampire tree which sends out a mind-affecting effect to get people to sleep under it's roots where it then kills them and drains the victim's blood. I applaud you.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-17, 12:46 PM
Taking the idea of Druid Lich.

Get a tree. Use awaken on it and befriend it. Or better yet, using the vilest magic you can find, twist it into a evil perverse tree with great powers. Or you could get a Night Twist from MM3. Then turn it into your phylactery. Corrupt and defile anything and everything within a one mile radius of your phylactery for added precaution.

If it resembles the Saigyou Ayakashi (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Saigyou_Ayakashi), a demonic vampire tree which sends out a mind-affecting effect to get people to sleep under it's roots where it then kills them and drains the victim's blood. I applaud you.
Trouble is, it's so noticeable. You are not thinking long term. You are a lich, watching the mountains be ground from stately peaks to rolling hills to flat planes is practically a hobby.
That tree is something that heroes would want to destroy. Also, I don't know if a living creature can even be a phylactery.

Altarus
2010-06-17, 12:53 PM
There is nothing which restrict a lich from making anything into a Phylactery. It doesn't mention any restrictions in making a phylactery aside from Craft Wondrous Item, CL 11, and the XP and GP costs.

I admit that my idea isn't well thought out yet, but I like the concept of it. If you really want it to be more secure, get more copies of the same sinister evil tree and spread it out in the forest while defiling everything in a 1 mile radius of the copies. Shouldn't be too hard.

EDIT: Also, when one defiles a forest into a twisted evil version of it, do not forget to do the same thing to the inhabitants of said forest. Makes it more dangerous for anyone who tries to go in. All this is worthless if I face Batman Wizards though, so this is more of a plot bunny than anything.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 01:01 PM
There is nothing which restrict a lich from making anything into a Phylactery. It doesn't mention any restrictions in making a phylactery aside from Craft Wondrous Item, CL 11, and the XP and GP costs.

I admit that my idea isn't well thought out yet, but I like the concept of it. If you really want it to be more secure, get more copies of the same sinister evil tree and spread it out in the forest while defiling everything in a 1 mile radius of the copies. Shouldn't be too hard.

EDIT: Also, when one defiles a forest into a twisted evil version of it, do not forget to do the same thing to the inhabitants of said forest. Makes it more dangerous for anyone who tries to go in. All this is worthless if I face Batman Wizards though, so this is more of a plot bunny than anything.

Going on that idea, make the phylactery a GOOD treant. Like the holiest of them all. Have a special curse that cannot be removed that he can never be revived or brought back to life, and if he dies his soul will be destroyed on top of that forever. Make him know this, and everyone else know this. It is common knowledge. Make him fear death beyond anything else.

Sure, evil people won't have a problem killing him. Nor would some neutrals. But heroes of good? Likely not as much. Especally if said treant goes out of his way to help people, heal others, brings puppies to small children and bakes cookies for the PC's mothers.

gallagher
2010-06-17, 01:02 PM
Yep. Lossarwyn the Ice Lich was a 18 level druid/ 1 level hierophant (If I remembered right) and a leader and/or supporter of the Eldreth Veluuthra in forgotten realms.


Someone in the boards said he'd make his spellbook his phylactery, and then put it in libary of magical lore. (Like Candlekeep). No-one would look twice about a magical book there. There is also a spell somewhere that makes you always look past an item (I forget what it is. You supposely just plain ignore it for whatever reason, it's not invisible, you just ignore it) which could be put on it and BAM. Perfect place to hide it.

better yet, befriend a high level wizard, potentially epic level. make HIS spellbook your phylactery. laugh maniacally as you think of people trying to get near a heavily guarded epic wizards lair.

Masaioh
2010-06-17, 01:03 PM
1. Make it an artifact
2. Store in lead-lined adamantine box
3. Genesis
4. ???
5. Profit!

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 01:06 PM
Make it a normal magic item-like a +1 Ring of Protection or somesuch useful-but-low-level thing. If anyone takes it, well, a party still using such weak magical gear will probably be weak enough for you to beat, and you can put the ring in some low-level dungeon inhabited by some goblin tribe or the like.

Or, you could just toss it into the sewers of some large city. It'd be annoying when you regenerated, but I doubt anyone would look there. Or just bury it in some completely random field or marsh near a rabbit burrow or something. Put it somewhere super-mundane and it'll probably never be found.

Morph Bark
2010-06-17, 01:11 PM
better yet, befriend a high level wizard, potentially epic level. make HIS spellbook your phylactery. laugh maniacally as you think of people trying to get near a heavily guarded epic wizards lair.

Cue back to my plan where you could potentially have an army of spellcasters of various levels (most likely all fairly high) protect it in your stead when you're not around. :smallamused:

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 01:13 PM
Cue back to my plan where you could potentially have an army of spellcasters of various levels (most likely all fairly high) protect it in your stead when you're not around. :smallamused:

I don't know...I don't think that spellcasters, especially wizards, can cast spells while high...:smalltongue:

Yora
2010-06-17, 01:15 PM
So now, Playground, it's time for us to bring out our impenetrable fortresses, psychotic traps, and utterly paranoid spells...to protect that one shiny little bauble.
One really good storage place I've read about is placing it into the core of a statue and make the statue into a magic immune golem, but a really powerful one.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 01:16 PM
One really good storage place I've read about is placing it into the core of a statue and make the statue into a magic immune golem, but a really powerful one.

Or the very weakest golem. If an adventuring party finds it and defeats it, they probably can't destroy the item. And if you regenerate while they have the item, you can easily just kill them.

Ravingdork
2010-06-17, 01:21 PM
Make it a normal magic item-like a +1 Ring of Protection or somesuch useful-but-low-level thing. If anyone takes it, well, a party still using such weak magical gear will probably be weak enough for you to beat, and you can put the ring in some low-level dungeon inhabited by some goblin tribe or the like.

Or, you could just toss it into the sewers of some large city. It'd be annoying when you regenerated, but I doubt anyone would look there. Or just bury it in some completely random field or marsh near a rabbit burrow or something. Put it somewhere super-mundane and it'll probably never be found.

I don't know about you, but I would find a ring of protection +1 or similarly weak item highly suspicious if it had an inappropriately high caster level (which a simple detect magic could reveal).

Dracons
2010-06-17, 01:21 PM
One really good storage place I've read about is placing it into the core of a statue and make the statue into a magic immune golem, but a really powerful one



YAY! You liked my idea on reply number 27 on first page :). Happy.


Make phylactery. Make it fireproof. Put it inside magical golem that is also immune to all elements and can swim [snip]




I don't know about you, but I would find a ring of protection +1 or similarly weak item highly suspicious if it had an inappropriately high caster level (which a simple detect magic could reveal).

Really? What's so suspecious about weak little servent boy who has to feed my ghouls in the pit every day have a minor trinket to help protect him somewhat from the claws? Don't forget, that you can LOWER your caster level, as long as it meets the requirment to cast the spell. That's why people when crafting wands of cure light, to make it really cheap, they do it at caster level 1 rather then caster level 15.

EDIT: DOH! Level 11 is the minimal. Ok. It's a ring of protection +3. Problem solved.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 01:23 PM
I don't know about you, but I would find a ring of protection +1 or similarly weak item highly suspicious if it had an inappropriately high caster level (which a simple detect magic could reveal).

And what's a low-level party going to do about it? Unless they give it to someone high level, they might simply think that it needs a special activation to use more powerful abilities or something.

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-17, 01:30 PM
I would put it into some kind of golem, layer the golem in thatarmour that attaches innocent people to it, then put a 6 year old onto the armour. In order to get to it the party has to kill the 6 year old by breaking the golem.

While they agonise over wheher doing it and reviving them later is worth it I melt them.

-----------------
Lichdom requires CL11, the ability to cast spells & Craft-W-I. Can Paladins & Rangers become (really crap) Liches?

Foryn Gilnith
2010-06-17, 01:34 PM
Lichdom requires CL11, the ability to cast spells & Craft-W-I. Can Paladins & Rangers become (really crap) Liches?

A Commoner 4/Adept 6 can become a Lich, if he has the orange ioun stone and Practiced Spellcaster. They have a kobold adept 11 as a lich in Libris Mortis.

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-17, 01:36 PM
A Commoner 4/Adept 6 can become a Lich, if he has the orange ioun stone and Practiced Spellcaster. They have a kobold adept 11 as a lich in Libris Mortis.

How the frig does an adept get 120,000gp? :smallannoyed:

This is excellent knowledge to have however...<plots random town full of lich NPCs>...

Dracons
2010-06-17, 01:42 PM
-----------------
Lichdom requires CL11, the ability to cast spells & Craft-W-I. Can Paladins & Rangers become (really crap) Liches?

Yeah. But at level 22 is the minimal, seeing as their caster level is half their level.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 01:44 PM
How the frig does an adept get 120,000gp? :smallannoyed:

This is excellent knowledge to have however...<plots random town full of lich NPCs>...

The DM says so?

Technically, all players that want to be lichs, strictly by wealth by levels, cannot do it until level 14. Even then, they would only have like, 30,000 left for gear. Even funner if you do it by NPCs since lichs are NPCs, they can't have it until level 18, and only have 10,000 gp left.

Gruffard
2010-06-17, 01:48 PM
I do not know about you, but thats recommended starting gold, not you should have money X at each level. It is not unreasonable for a group that leveled there to have a little more gold then normal, plus you can steal, beg, barrow from other party members and NPCS to make up for it.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-06-17, 01:52 PM
Yeah. But at level 22 is the minimal, seeing as their caster level is half their level.
Using the same principles as the Adept/Commoner earlier, a ranger can get lichdom by level 12. Base caster level 6, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster gets you 10; borrow an Orange Ioun Stone to boost you to 11 until you finish crafting. Either that or just wait until level 14.

Kalirren
2010-06-17, 01:53 PM
Several thoughts:

The easiest way of protecting your phylactery is not being an arse. Then no one wants to destroy it.

On a more serious note I like the idea of making a phylactery into an intelligent construct. Never done this myself before.

I once ran a character who became a lich. Being in her life a high minister in her nation, and having a commercial bent, she decided to make a phylactery out of not just -a- coin, but a part of -all the coins- minted by a certain magical press. (Those special incantations that would normally be inside the phylactery? Printed very small onto the coins themselves.) Of course they all eventually ended up in sewers one way or another, and this meant that she could respawn in just about any city in that nation.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 01:59 PM
I do not know about you, but thats recommended starting gold, not you should have money X at each level. It is not unreasonable for a group that leveled there to have a little more gold then normal, plus you can steal, beg, barrow from other party members and NPCS to make up for it.

Hm. Pretty strict there. This is how much wealth that character should have at this level, not this is starting gold.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 02:01 PM
Using the same principles as the Adept/Commoner earlier, a ranger can get lichdom by level 12. Base caster level 6, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster gets you 10; borrow an Orange Ioun Stone to boost you to 11 until you finish crafting. Either that or just wait until level 14.


A level six ranger/level 4 commoner would be a 3rd level caster, +4 from practiced would be 7th caster. Orange ioun only gives +1, so that's 8th. Still need three more levels.

Morph Bark
2010-06-17, 02:17 PM
A level six ranger/level 4 commoner would be a 3rd level caster, +4 from practiced would be 7th caster. Orange ioun only gives +1, so that's 8th. Still need three more levels.

Except, you know, that's not what Foryn meant. Though it's not quite correct either, I think.


I don't know...I don't think that spellcasters, especially wizards, can cast spells while high...:smalltongue:

Objection! If you check Book of Vile Darkness' rules on drugs, you'd see they can! Illusionists instantly become epic-level, effectively! :smalltongue:

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 02:21 PM
Objection! If you check Book of Vile Darkness' rules on drugs, you'd see they can! Illusionists instantly become epic-level, effectively! :smalltongue:

I don't own the Book of Er-oh, you mean that Book of Vile Darkness!

Meh, I don't own that one either.

Person_Man
2010-06-17, 02:26 PM
Your phylactery should be a naturally occurring lump of unprocessed lead. Find a way to make it immune to as many different types of damage as possible, and cast as many different anti-scrying spells as possible on it, and make them all permanent. Then use Shrink Item to make it as small as possible, preferably the size of a speck of sand or smaller. Cast every anti-scrying spell possible on yourself that you can think of. Teleport to a random spot in the middle of the world's largest dessert, and burrow down until you find a naturally occurring lead deposit several hundred feet beneath it. (This should be quite easy, as lead is quite common - you might have to burrow several hundred or thousand feet, but you're an immortal full caster who doesn't have to eat, sleep, or breath, so you've got time and resources). Then teleport to the middle of the ocean, preferably underwater. Then teleport back to your home base. Then cast a custom spell designed to wipe your memory of specific details. Remove everything about the creation of your phylactery and how you hid it from your mind (but not the fact that you created one or hid it). You and your minions will assume that it was under water, since all of your cloths are soaking wet.

Done.

Unless a god decides he wants to find your phylactery or destroy your world or reality, you should be safe until the end of time. (Be sure to always respect and pay homage to the gods, and avoid getting caught up in their squabbles, and avoid the temptation to reshape reality to suit your will).

Dracons
2010-06-17, 02:26 PM
Except, you know, that's not what Foryn meant. Though it's not quite correct either, I think.


What else did he mean? The example he gave was Adept6/Commoner4 with practiced spellcaster and ioun stone. But Rangers do not have full caster levels. It flat out states in the PHB, and SRD, that Rangers caster levels are HALF. So A sixth level Ranger, would cast as THIRD level, not SIX.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-06-17, 02:28 PM
When I said "Using the same principles as the Adept/Commoner earlier", I meant "using the Practiced Spellcaster feat".

Rothen
2010-06-17, 02:32 PM
Really? What's so suspecious about weak little servent boy who has to feed my ghouls in the pit every day have a minor trinket to help protect him somewhat from the claws?

Let's face it. You're an evil lich, no one is going to buy that you protect your servants.

See also: Xykon.

Dracons
2010-06-17, 02:33 PM
Would not be by level 12 though. He would have to BE level 12 ranger just to get the caster level of 6.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 02:39 PM
Let's face it. You're an evil lich, no one is going to buy that you protect your servants.

See also: Xykon.

Evil=/= wants to replace every single employee every five minutes. If protecting your people is going to save you time and energy getting more(and, in the long run, probably money too), why not?

If you have a reputation as the nice old undead guy who happens to have an army of undead to "protect the land", not many people will come after you. And if they do, everyone will go after them.

Riva
2010-06-17, 03:21 PM
Back to the common implements idea, I think I would make mine a useful farmers tool. In addition, maybe enchantments to make it more useful (so that it would be valued) to protect the user from aches and pains, maybe even calm births and weathers in a mile radius.

Make it so innocuous and valuable that it gets taken care of and passed down through generations. No one would know that it was the source of the good fortune, but a good old fashioned mind rape every few generations could probably keep some geniune affection for the old tool alive.

Ilmryn
2010-06-17, 03:29 PM
Well, the simplest way to hide your phylactery would simply be to first use all the Nondetection equivalent spells you know. (at high levels that is probably enough to render it immune to nonepic divination, and if you, as the BBEG, are nonepic, the heroes probably are, too. Then cast imprisonment on it. Unless they know the exact spot where you imprisoned the phylactery, they won't be able to get at it. Ever. And even if they somehow knew, they would still need a specific 9th level spell to get at it. Even if they found the spot and had a freedom spell ready, they would still face the exploding runes you dedicated all your 3rd level and higher slots to during a month or so.
If you are a wizard at 17th level, that should be a few thousand d6 that await the heroes.:smallbiggrin: Then, after a 10 foot radius has been blown into utter oblivion, the contingent teleport and second imprisonment activate on the phylactery, putting it once again in a place unable to reach.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 03:32 PM
Well, the simplest way to hide your phylactery would simply be to first use all the Nondetection equivalent spells you know. (at high levels that is probably enough to render it immune to nonepic divination, and if you, as the BBEG, are nonepic, the heroes probably are, too. Then cast imprisonment on it. Unless they know the exact spot where you imprisoned the phylactery, they won't be able to get at it. Ever. And even if they somehow knew, they would still need a specific 9th level spell to get at it. Even if they found the spot and had a freedom spell ready, they would still face the exploding runes you dedicated all your 3rd level and higher slots to during a month or so.
If you are a wizard at 17th level, that should be a few thousand d6 that await the heroes.:smallbiggrin: Then, after a 10 foot radius has been blown into utter oblivion, the contingent teleport and second imprisonment activate on the phylactery, putting it once again in a place unable to reach.


Great! So, the heroes blow you up, and you regenerate, instantly taking >9000 d6s of damage to the face and coming back in another 1d10 days. You also get to be stuck until you cast Freedom on yourself.

Darklord Xavez
2010-06-17, 03:33 PM
Use Drawmji's Instant Summons. If the "heroes" steal it (because us on the other side are the true heroes), you can just bring it back to you (no matter what) with one 7th-level spell. And Arcane Mark.
-Xavez

Calemyr
2010-06-17, 03:36 PM
The bag of holding trick would be nifty, but why make it a bag of holding? Make it the trap version of that ("Well of many worlds"? The one that drops items in random planes) and pull the same stunt. Better yet, enchant it to resemble a common weak item, place it in a (active) bag of holding full of other low grade trinkets, then place that bag in a (inactive) well of many worlds.

Or you could make it a low-value gem (rhine stone?), enchant it to produce a minor aura of cold and to play an off-tune drinking song when in a living person's possession, mount it in a cheap, tacky beer stein, and hide it in the back of the cubbard like a memento that embarasses the hell out of you but you can't seem to throw it away.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-17, 03:37 PM
Really people a lot of your ideas aren't actually possible using the rules.
Make it invulnerable to harm so it cant be destroyed, make it part of the world stone so its destruction would wipe out all life on the planet. Those above ideas are just as possible as many of the ones you guys have.


Find some way to ward it against stomach acid, and then feed it to the Tarrasque.

Then reappear next to the Tarrasque get eaten, reappear next to teh Tarrasque get eaten. Rinse and repeat forever


Use Drawmji's Instant Summons. If the "heroes" steal it (because us on the other side are the true heroes), you can just bring it back to you (no matter what) with one 7th-level spell. And Arcane Mark.
-Xavez

Alright your a Lich and I have in my hand your phylactery. You cast Instant summons... I still have the phylactery which I promptly disintegrate.


If the item is in the possession of another creature, the spell does not work, but you know who the possessor is and roughly where that creature is located when the summons occurs.

Ilmryn
2010-06-17, 03:38 PM
Great! So, the heroes blow you up, and you regenerate, instantly taking >9000 d6s of damage to the face and coming back in another 1d10 days. You also get to be stuck until you cast Freedom on yourself.

You can set explosive runes to not blow up in the face of you or your minions. Also, you could have a contingent freedom on yourself.
Contingent spells are great!

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 03:43 PM
You can set explosive runes to not blow up in the face of you or your minions. Also, you could have a contingent freedom on yourself.
Contingent spells are great!

How is this possible using the spell? Unless you become illiterate, you'll be hit by the ERs. And Imprisonment says 'Target: Creature touched', so that wouldn't necessarily even work.

Tokiko Mima
2010-06-17, 03:44 PM
Make my phylactery from stone, place the usual protections on it, as well as a layer of lead.

Then implant it into a nameless and unimportant innocent creature of some kind, in a manner that kills said creature if it is removed.

Now on the creature chosen use Flesh to Stone > Rock to Mud > Purify Water, and pour the results into the ocean.

Now your phylactery is the entire ocean itself, and you could potentially reform anywhere in it if destroyed. It's is still *possible* for you to be permanently destroyed, but it's a lot more trouble than it's worth. It's easier to find and permanently disable your lich body.

Darklord Xavez
2010-06-17, 03:47 PM
Actually, I don't have a phylactery, so there. I would protect YOUR phylactery by destroying it. Nobody can ever harm it again!
-Xavez

Il_Vec
2010-06-17, 03:47 PM
How is this possible using the spell?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm


You and any characters you specifically instruct can read the protected writing without triggering the runes. Likewise, you can remove the runes whenever desired.

That way it is possible. Not so sure about the rest.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 03:50 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm



That way it is possible. Not so sure about the rest.

I see.

Still, unless you're a Sorcerer you'd probably be screwed anyways. Mainly because unless you make your spellbook part of you, you won't be able to prepare spells.

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-17, 03:51 PM
I see.

Still, unless you're a Sorcerer you'd probably be screwed anyways. Mainly because unless you make your spellbook part of you, you won't be able to prepare spells.

Spell Mastery.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-17, 03:53 PM
Make my phylactery from stone, place the usually protections on it, as well as a layer of lead.

Then implant it into a nameless and unimportant innocent creature of some kind, in a manner that kills said creature if it is removed.

Now on the creature chosen use Flesh to Stone > Rock to Mud > Purify Water, and pour the results into the ocean.

Now your phylactery is the entire ocean itself, and you could potentially reform anywhere in it if destroyed. It's is still *possible* for you to be permanently destroyed, but it's a lot more trouble than it's worth. It's easier to find and permanently disable your lich body.
Great, you just destroyed your own phylactery.

PersonMan
2010-06-17, 03:54 PM
Spell Mastery.

True. But now you need to spend a feat on it, at least.

And it still might not work, unless you make your phylactery a "creature touched".

Dracons
2010-06-17, 04:02 PM
Great, you just destroyed your own phylactery.

Exactly what I was about to say.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-06-17, 04:14 PM
Make it out of that awful stupid Riverine material, the one from Stormwrack that is essentially miniature Walls of Force.

Then throw it into the Sun.

Kiren
2010-06-17, 04:23 PM
Oh this is diabolical, implant your phylactery inside a child.

Edit: NOT WHAT I WOULD DO!!! A lich would, considering the acts required to become one.

Ilmryn
2010-06-17, 04:24 PM
How is this possible using the spell? Unless you become illiterate, you'll be hit by the ERs. And Imprisonment says 'Target: Creature touched', so that wouldn't necessarily even work.

Cast Animate Object on the phylactery. Now its a creature. Also, ER do not affect their caster or any creature he designates.

Lapak
2010-06-17, 04:31 PM
Great, you just destroyed your own phylactery.That is perhaps the only 100% effective means of making sure that no one else destroys it!

Dracons
2010-06-17, 04:36 PM
Make it out of that awful stupid Riverine material, the one from Stormwrack that is essentially miniature Walls of Force.

Then throw it into the Sun.

Thanks for the idea.

Make it out of AURORUM!

Then, make your Phylactey a AURORUM SHIELD!

Everytime it's sundered (which is the most common way outside of magic)

It's reformed as per rules of Aurorum.

Then, make the Shield ether magic proof like a golem, or high SR.

Now no spell can destroy it ether.

Then of course, do all the other various ways of hiding it.

Ilmryn
2010-06-17, 05:20 PM
I still think Imprisonment would be the most effective way to hide your phylactery. However, if you cast the Imprisonment while standing on the surface of a distant star, it would be more effective, if a bit overkill. Also, you'd better have a contingent Fire Imuunity ready...

Mark Hall
2010-06-17, 05:22 PM
The really creative one I remember from a similar thread a while back goes like this:
1) Acquire a Bag of Holding
2) Enter an Antimagic Field
3) Place phylactery inside BoH
4) Leave AMF
5) Laugh maniacally as your enemies futilely search everywhere except the (non-extra-dimensional) interior of the bag. Unless it's inside an AMF, reaching into the bag accesses the magical storage area, which is not where your phylactery is - and who's going to reach into a Bag of Holding deliberately when its magic has been turned off?

Add spells, wards, and other magical protections on the phylactery itself to taste.

Was thinking about this one, and it's pretty easy to beat, without using an AMF:

Turn the bag of holding inside out. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding)

The stuff in the nondimensional space dumps out. The stuff in the normal bag dumps out (because the bag is inside out). Really, this should be SOP for finding a bag of holding... turn it inside out and find what goodies they left behind, then right it again.

Tokiko Mima
2010-06-17, 07:27 PM
Great, you just destroyed your own phylactery.

At what point did I destroy anything? It can still be re-integrated, in theory. I didn't even kill the creature. It's "alive" until someone reverses the Flesh to Stone spell. Good luck with that, by the way.

Starscream
2010-06-17, 07:44 PM
Huh. I was just skimming Champions of Ruin, and noticed an epic spell that lets you split your phylactery into multiple phylacteries, and you come back if even one of them is intact.

Yeah, the OP said that we should be below level 20 for this thread, but the spellcraft DC is rather low (30), so as soon as you hit level 21 I'd learn that spell right away. It opens up a whole bunch of possibilities.

Vulaas
2010-06-17, 08:18 PM
If we're assuming that an antimagic field will not prevent us from reforming, I'd recommend encasing it in lead, then implanting it into the Spire in the Outlands. Congrats, not even a god will be able to tell that it is there if you do it right.

Assuming an antimagic field or space constraints would prevent you from reforming, then line it with lead, then put that into an airtight stone box, and then make a pit (complete with trapdoor) that drops into green slime. Adventurers will think it's just a horrible death trap, so put it under the slime. I don't think anyone would want to clean THAT out. For added security, use the stone box as a brick in the wall of that pit.

Lamech
2010-06-17, 09:21 PM
Place phylactery in a bag of holding. Stab bag of holding. Whoops lost forever, you'll never know where it is ever again. And when you reform you'll be lost too. Every time you reform you can just plane shift back, and call it a day.

Lapak
2010-06-17, 09:43 PM
At what point did I destroy anything? It can still be re-integrated, in theory. I didn't even kill the creature. It's "alive" until someone reverses the Flesh to Stone spell. Good luck with that, by the way.I wish you every good luck convincing your DM that your phylactery, whose molecules are scattered all over the ocean, is still intact. Or that the creature you did this to is 'alive.' But I can't imagine anyone actually accepting that argument.

omglolnub
2010-06-17, 09:49 PM
My personal favorite is to create three permanent Teleportation Circles, and have one point to the next, which points to the next, which points to the first. Then do all your non-detection jazz on your phylactery and place a contingent teleport on it (via Craft Contingent Spell), to return to you if any of the circles are disabled in any way.

Take a second object, which looks just like your phylactery, and non-detect it and such, but place the contingency on this to teleport anyone who touches it into the sun. Place both onto circle 1, and since they are instantly transported to circle two, and then circle three, they exist both at all three places and none of the places at once. The circles should be place in hard to access areas (say three 5 foot by 5 foot cubes in the crust of the planet, with at least one under the ocean.

Any heroes that try and destroy it will either A) Accidently step on the circle, and get caught in the paradox that is the three circles, B) Disable one of them and get teleported to the sun, or C) Somehow realize that it isn't your phylactery just for you to scry and die him since you know someone has disturbed one of your circles.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-17, 10:13 PM
Put it inside a Cube?

omglolnub
2010-06-17, 10:16 PM
That was poorly worded, I mean hollow out 5x5 cubes in the Earths crust.

deuxhero
2010-06-17, 10:20 PM
The really creative one I remember from a similar thread a while back goes like this:
1) Acquire a Bag of Holding
2) Enter an Antimagic Field
3) Place phylactery inside BoH
4) Leave AMF
5) Laugh maniacally as your enemies futilely search everywhere except the (non-extra-dimensional) interior of the bag. Unless it's inside an AMF, reaching into the bag accesses the magical storage area, which is not where your phylactery is - and who's going to reach into a Bag of Holding deliberately when its magic has been turned off?

Add spells, wards, and other magical protections on the phylactery itself to taste.

Very nice, but how do YOU get out?

Sindri
2010-06-17, 10:24 PM
Have thousands of tiny diamonds in your treasure hoard. Layer identical sets of protection spells and traps on each and every one of them. Obviously, one of them is your phylactery, but the players will never figure out which, and no adventuring party would be willing to destroy millions of GP worth of diamonds.

On the off chance that they are willing and able to make that sacrifice, your phylactery is elsewhere, far away, in a perfectly ordinary safe-deposit box (held in the name of one of your most obscure, minor minions).

One Step Two
2010-06-17, 11:04 PM
I'd hire the party, and/or various adventuring guilds to ship the Phylactery constantly, warning that it's a very deadly cursed item, that is to be shipped to different scholars around the world for study. Warning them that a large and complicated ritual needs to be prepared to keep it's power sealed away, and that the only thing keeping it from causing the land in which it rests to naught but salt and ash it to keep it from remaining in one place (of a certain area) more than a week.

It's location is kept in motion inside a lead-lined box. Good heroes will believe themselves on a righteous cause, and will fight to the end defending it. Evil heroes will try and take it to harness it's power. If the box is Opened it will trigger a contingent spell to teleport the phylactery back to me and a decoy in it's place. Scrying the box I will hire more adventureres to recover it.
I will meet the phylactery at it's next location using diguise checks to be the 'wizard' who will study it, place it back in the box when out of sight and then send it on it's way once more.

Il_Vec
2010-06-17, 11:06 PM
Put it inside a Cube?

You mean a specific cube or just any six-identical-faces-regular-polyhedron ?

Dracons
2010-06-17, 11:09 PM
Huh. I was just skimming Champions of Ruin, and noticed an epic spell that lets you split your phylactery into multiple phylacteries, and you come back if even one of them is intact.



That's what my BBEG did with his. Split it from multiple bits of skeleton like the original of the spell, and had each bone be in a different plane of existence under heavy guard, including alot being in giant constructs in a various pools of damage (lava, acid, deep in a unfreezing ice, etc).

The group of players eventally gave up.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-17, 11:18 PM
I still think Imprisonment would be the most effective way to hide your phylactery. However, if you cast the Imprisonment while standing on the surface of a distant star, it would be more effective, if a bit overkill. Also, you'd better have a contingent Fire Imuunity ready...

A phylactery restores you in close proximity to it, theirs an example Lich in Libris mortis whose phylactery got lodged in a Kraken and he's woken up on the ocean floor a few times after failed attempts to slay the Kraken and reclaim his phylactery.

If you use imprisonment to hide away your phylactery. You'll end up where ever it is.

At what point did I destroy anything? It can still be re-integrated, in theory. I didn't even kill the creature. It's "alive" until someone reverses the Flesh to Stone spell. Good luck with that, by the way.

You destroyed it when you turned it to stone and melted it into mud. A phylactery is a box that contains the Lich's soul. Destroy the box and the soul is no longer there.

In any case even if that didn't destroy it there is no way any magic item in that condition would continue to function. If the lich is destroyed he'll stay that way forever as his phylactery was turned to stone, transmuted to mud then scattered across the ocean.
The lead no longer exists nor do the objects so any spell protections you've cast no longer have a valid target thus they are automatically dispelled.

Protecting your phylactery is utterly meaningless if that protection prevents it from functioning.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-06-18, 12:15 AM
You mean a specific cube or just any six-identical-faces-regular-polyhedron ?

This specific cube. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285492/)

masterjoda99
2010-06-18, 12:31 AM
Huh, and here I was expecting a picture of the Weighted Companion Cube from Portal in that link

DragoonWraith
2010-06-18, 12:31 AM
You mean a specific cube or just any six-identical-faces-regular-polyhedron ?
Yes, a specific cube. I'm shocked that no one had given this answer yet.

Of course, I can't put it in a Cube cuz I haven't the first clue how to construct one, but if I was a Lich I'd figure out how.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-06-18, 12:40 AM
Huh, and here I was expecting a picture of the Weighted Companion Cube from Portal in that link

Honestly, thinking back, that would have been even better.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-18, 12:46 AM
I meant sofawall's cube, a link to which I cannot find at the moment.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-06-18, 12:47 AM
I meant sofawall's cube, a link to which I cannot find at the moment.

Has that build been posted yet? It sounded hilarious.

742
2010-06-18, 02:26 AM
be a generally sneaky manipulative villian

and wear it around my neck visibly. anyone stupid wont live to get close enough, anyone smart enough to kill me wont believe it.:smallamused:

contingent teleport for when they half-heartedly try to smash it just-to-be-sure.

Mark Hall
2010-06-18, 12:47 PM
Put it inside a Cube?

A cube (http://www.timecube.com/) .

Ilmryn
2010-06-18, 01:38 PM
A phylactery restores you in close proximity to it, theirs an example Lich in Libris mortis whose phylactery got lodged in a Kraken and he's woken up on the ocean floor a few times after failed attempts to slay the Kraken and reclaim his phylactery.

If you use imprisonment to hide away your phylactery. You'll end up where ever it is.

That can easily be resolved with a contingent Freedom on yourself. You'll pop up at the spot where you Imprisoned the phylactery.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-18, 02:07 PM
be a generally sneaky manipulative villian

and wear it around my neck visibly. anyone stupid wont live to get close enough, anyone smart enough to kill me wont believe it.:smallamused:

contingent teleport for when they half-heartedly try to smash it just-to-be-sure.
Which gives them a major clue it's the real deal. They have now handled the item, which means a good old fashioned Discern Location will tell them where it is.

Myth
2010-06-18, 03:07 PM
The problem with making it a brick, coin, farm tool, ROP +1 or anything else is that during the hundreds of years, someone will try to destroy it. And when they can't they'll look in to it further. If it's really indestructible someone will possibly issue an Arthurian challenge to find a way to destroy it. It's how human minds work.

On a more grand note, can one choose the whole Crystal Sphere around the world as his phylactery? It's indestructible by default and even if one manages to destroy it it'd just let Wildspace swarm in.

How does using a Voidstone from the NEP sound? Just let it float in the Negative Energy Plane, properly warded and such?

Of course genesis, mansion etc. are the safest solutions.

Dracons
2010-06-18, 03:47 PM
Could one make a sphere of annihation your phylactery?

Ravens_cry
2010-06-18, 04:20 PM
Could one make a sphere of annihation your phylactery?
It says you have to create your phylactery, and spheres of annihilation are artefacts and can not be created by " common mortal means".
I would say no.

Vknight
2010-06-18, 11:02 PM
Make it a crown give it to the strongest good king in the land standard enchantments to protect it.
Say it's a powerful artifact and a gift to him.
Party never suspects that the guy sending them on quests is wearing your phylactery.
Since he knows of you appearing out of no where the people in the castle will not attack you. You said you'll make surprise visits to see how everything is going or something like that.
You could even help build the kingdom to the military strength the Hero's know see it as.
Why do this?
To plant explosive runes in key zones.
Castle comes under attack activate runes teleport out with crown. Blame it on the hero's.
Rebuild kingdom wash rinse complete. Changing what you look like to avoid suspicion; that way you are assumed to be part part of a group, rather than the same person.

Also with that epic level spell one for the king.
One for our self your staff or crown what have you.
One hidden in an ancient library hidden away only powerfu spellcsters can reach.
Sealed inside a golem guarding an evil weapon so evil cannot get it. The hero's will leave this alone and other villain's well something to tell them the truth once entering.
Another 4 or 5 in different planes guarded by golems made of a different element.
2 or 3 Liches your generals they are each others phylactery.
A young dragon now a adult or older depending on the lich's age. Preferbly a black dragon.
These all have the standard protections to keep the heros from finding them easily.

Drop a few fakes in dangerous planes and areas set with traps made by the lich's men so the hero's are killed getting to a normal item.
Well on the gild goose chase if they realize whats happened you can send your enter army after them.

Lord Raziere
2010-06-18, 11:39 PM
how about this:

make your phylactery THE ENTIRE WORLD!

the PCs can't destroy the entire world! :smallbiggrin: no one can! you will regenerate as long as the planet exists!

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-19, 04:11 AM
how about this:

make your phylactery THE ENTIRE WORLD!

the PCs can't destroy the entire world! :smallbiggrin: no one can! you will regenerate as long as the planet exists!

The world is slightly bigger than Fine sized :smallwink:

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-19, 04:42 AM
I'd protect it enough from incidental threats, but at the end of the day chances are all your protections are basically useless. Most importantly I'd the necessary magics to alert me to intruders and an instant summons to quickly bring it to me. Someone manages to find and enter where I've stored it. I can then quickly retrieve my phylactery before they get their hands on it.

Going way overboard is unnecessary,
If as part of the story an NPC goes after your phylactery he's going to have the resources to find it period. Because whatever the party is going after is more powerful then YOU.

So the most important protections are the ones that will warn you someone has entered the area of your phylactery and instant summons to retrieve it. [the moment someone puts a hand on our phylactery its in their possession and instant summons won't work]

Morph Bark
2010-06-19, 04:51 AM
It says you have to create your phylactery, and spheres of annihilation are artefacts and can not be created by " common mortal means".
I would say no.

So Vecna's phylactery could be a sphere of annihilation, huh?

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-19, 04:54 AM
So Vecna's phylactery could be a sphere of annihilation, huh?

No, he was a mortal when he became a Lich (I think). Now Boccob, he could make an SoA into his phylactery.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-06-19, 05:08 AM
So Vecna's phylactery could be a sphere of annihilation, huh?

Vecna is a *&)**)@$ god he's probably beyond a phylactery and if he does have one its probably been transformed into an indestructible major artifact.
Besides that a sphere of annihilation is fairly simple to destroy just use a rod of cancellation.

If I was to assign his phylactery I'd split it in three, his eye, his hand and the sword of kas, and the only way to destroy the artifacts is to assemble them together in a certain place and strike the hand and the eye with the sword which will destroy all 3, and the wielder of the sword.

Obviously the Sword of Kas would resist being used for its own destruction and would attempt to use its ego to take over who ever wielded it. Mindless creatures would fail automatically.

No, he was a mortal when he became a Lich (I think). Now Boccob, he could make an SoA into his phylactery.

As a god he can probably turn his phylactery into a sphere if he chose.

Critical
2010-06-19, 05:24 AM
I'd make Pun-Pun protect it.

Johel
2010-06-19, 08:03 AM
The character :
A straight 18th level Wizard

The means :

Our phylactery.
2 tiny boxes, made of adamantine.
A beggar, weak of body and mind (1st level commoner, low Strength and low Wisdom).
A apprentice of good but not very good intellect (5th level Wizard, Intelligence 16).
Precious dust for at least 5000 gp.
Soporific herbs of the rarest sort (cost 500 gp).
Opals worth at least 500 gp.
Carved statuette of the beggar.
Opals worth at least 2500 gp.
Carved statuette of the apprentice.
A staff of Greater Dispel Magic (CL 18).
A spellbook with nothing but Freedom inside.
A scroll, on which you write "THE PLAN" (see below)


The spells :
Dispel Magic
Bestow Curse
Permanency
Binding
Temporal Stasis
Symbol of Death
Freedom

Phase 1

Cast Symbol of Death near the location where phylactery should be held. The apprentice and the beggar must be attuned to the Symbol so they won't be affected.
Cast Permanency on the Symbol of Death.
Restrain the beggar with ropes.
Cast Bestow Curse on him, 8 times, so as to reduce all abilities by -6, then reduce his checks by -4, then reduce his action capacity by 50%.
Hide your phylactery in his belly. Remove some intestines if needed.
Cast Binding (Minimus Containment + Chaining) on him, so as to reduce his size and imprison him into the box, which isn't sealed yet.
Triggering condition that ends the spell is "after a duration of 25 years has passed".
Open the box.
Cast Temporal Stasis on him, so as to make it impossible to even interact with him.
Seal the box.


Your phylactery is now impossible to harm, since it is inside the beggar and the beggar is inside a temporal stasis. In addition, the box in which they are both locked can easily fit into a pocket.

Phase 1

Restrain the apprentice with ropes.
Cast Bestow Curse on him to reduce his Strength.
Make him worn the staff, the spellbook and the box.
Explain him "THE PLAN" (see below)
Cast Binding (Minimus Containment + Slumber) on him, so as to reduce his size and imprison him into the box, which isn't sealed yet.
Seal the box.


Your phylactery is now impossible to harm, since it is inside the beggar and the beggar is inside a temporal stasis. In addition, the box in which they are both locked is now into the pocket of a sleeping low-level wizard who, if he doesn't put an end to the temporal stasis, might either be cursed to eternal boredom or die in the next five years, depending of how the "no-binding-but-temporal-stasis" works.

THE PLAN
In the event of your death, you will need to reappear somewhere near your phylactery. Problem is, said phylactery is in Temporal Stasis, so time won't flow and you won't materialize.
But if somehow the Temporal Stasis is broken, then you can regenerate...and cast spells, provided you got access to a spellbook.
Temporal Stasis can be dispelled by Dispel Magic. The apprentice has been given a staff of Greater Dispel Magic, CL 18.
Using it will sure remove the Temporal Stasis but it won't dispel any of the Binding spells. The apprentice is too stupid to successfully cast a Freedom spell and so the spellbook you gave him is useless for him.
So, the apprentice actually needs you to free him. And for you to free him, he needs the Temporal Stasis to be dispelled.
But if the Temporal Stasis is out without you being death, the Binding spell that keeps the beggar so small will wear off after 25 years while the Binding spell that keeps the apprentice will still be in effect, resulting in a violent crushing death.
So, his instructions are clear : in 18 years, he will awaken and wait for 1 week. If by then, no lich showed up to free him, he is to dispel the Temporal Stasis. If you are dead, you will regenerate in the next 10 days, tear appart the body of the beggar and cast Freedom from the spellbook. If you are alive, you will free him before the crushing death occurs, though it might take a few days/weeks/months/years.
In the event he doesn't remember the plan after his slumber, it is all written on the scroll he is wearing at his belt.

Now, your part of the deal is to remember where you dropped the box. A remote cave, barely large enough for kobolds to crawl, would be perfect. The permanent Symbol of Death should be enough to take care of most curious idiots.

If you aren't kill, in roughly 20 years, you will come back and free the apprentice...or at least take back the phylactery.

If you are killed, you will come back to unlife in 20 years at most.

With both scenario, you got 20 years to get the components (including a new apprentice and beggar) to do it all again.

Of course, the Phylactery is still vulnerable to a powerful caster capable of casting Discern Location.

Dracons
2010-06-19, 12:09 PM
Well done Johel. I salute you.

cenghiz
2010-06-19, 01:02 PM
...
If I was to assign his phylactery I'd split it in three, his eye, his hand and the sword of kas, and the only way to destroy the artifacts is to assemble them together in a certain place and strike the hand and the eye with the sword which will destroy all 3, and the wielder of the sword.
....


If I remember right, Vecna's Head is the vecna's phylactery.

Arcane_Secrets
2010-06-19, 09:39 PM
Implant your Phylactery where your heart would be. I wouldn't look there.

I had a related idea, but I'm not sure if it's original or not.

Implant your phylactery next to the heart of your worst mortal enemy's most cherished relative, and put contingencies on it so that when you 'die', they die instantly so you rise out of their body.

Another idea is to build the Pulping Room of Frigid Death. How it would work is in the following way:

It's a sealed, airless chamber deep underground (that can only be accessed by teleportation that looks like a cube but with pyramids truncated off of the edges. The resulting triangular surfaces are large enough to stand upon, although most of them are at angles where you would fall down.

The room is designed in such a way that it appears as if the phylactery was buried under the stone within each surface through magic aura spells (in fact, the real phylactery is buried in a second chamber underneath the first real phylactery). However, what is on top of each of the surfaces instead are greater dispel magic, touch of idiocy, polar ray, and reverse gravity traps keyed to anyone but me. Touching any of the surfaces eliminates all magical protections, weakens their spellcasting abilities, and most important of all, sends them flying in a direction towards the other side of the room, where after taking the falling damage, they trigger the opposite side's series of traps, which do the same thing to them over and over again.

Zeful
2010-06-19, 11:48 PM
If we're assuming that an antimagic field will not prevent us from reforming, I'd recommend encasing it in lead, then implanting it into the Spire in the Outlands. Congrats, not even a god will be able to tell that it is there if you do it right.

AMF does prevent a Lich from reforming: LM page 151.

Also can someone provide a reference where it says that a Lich reforms near their phylactery? I looked today and couldn't find any such reference in LM or the DMG.

PId6
2010-06-20, 12:09 AM
Also can someone provide a reference where it says that a Lich reforms near their phylactery? I looked today and couldn't find any such reference in LM or the DMG.
As far as I'm aware, it doesn't state it at all.

However, by the phylactery is the most logical place for it to happen. The only other place I can think of that makes any sort of sense is the location of "death," but near the phylactery still seems more likely.

Jastermereel
2010-06-20, 01:35 AM
So many of these plans have a rather considerable meta-flaw. If your phylactery is but a grain of sand in an impossibly vast and infinitely distant desert, or one book among many in a legendary library for high-level casters, or in the belly of a one-of-a-kind beast.........then it's just the sort of thing a high-level bard would know of and it's just the sort of challenge an adventurer would seek out.

No one could ever know about it? That's why every bard everywhere will know about it.
You say it's impossible to find and even harder to destroy. That's exactly why they'll succeed.

You want to hide a phylactery in a safe place?

Make the phylactery into an otherwise Siangham at a school for training level 1 monks.

No character of a level sufficient to threaten you would be ever be caught dead in such a place and no one there would ever take it from its place there, let alone use the useless thing.

Callos_DeTerran
2010-06-20, 01:46 AM
1) Kill everything on the planet you are on. A wightapocalypse works.

2) Spend a long long time burying your phyaltrecy within the bowels of the planet. Lavishly appoint the chamber it's in with luxuries.

3) Permanently ward it with as much protection against scrying, teleporting, or anything else you can think of.

4) Surround dead planet with permanent walls of force. Kill wights as needed for XP.

5) Discover some way to make the planet move at your will. Ensure loyalty of wights as additional guard.

6) Section off planet with more walls of force and anti-teleportation wards.

7) Move to new planet to enjoy your eternal life/schemes of evil.

8) Cackle maniaclly when killed and sent to dead planet. Use force-shielded plant to ram the one you died on (hopefully taking heroes with it.

9) Move to other new planet.

10) ???

11) PROFIT!

Ravens_cry
2010-06-20, 02:00 AM
You know, if there is one thing that would unite the devils and the good aligned planes, it would be the attempted destruction of the planets occupants. For the latter, it would just be an act of indescribable evil, and for the former it would mean no more souls. You may be an immortal lich wizard, but you've got gods riding herd on your ass now.
Oops.

Eric Tolle
2010-06-21, 12:43 AM
What about making the phylactery out of a cube of neutronium which has a number of spells carved on it (such as greater teleport), which in turn is surrounded by a permanent force field large enough to accommodate you. Put a spell on the phylactery to alert you when it's messed with and drop it deep into the accretion disk around a large singularity, at a point where the time dilation is a factor of say, 1,000,000 to one.

The local conditions will make reaching the phylactery difficult (X-rays bother the living more than the dead), and the time dilation will mean that if someone messes with it, you'll have plenty of time to respond. If you get killed, again time dilation will mean it'll be centuries before you reappear, time enough for the mortals who opposed you to die. Because outliving one's enemies is the point of being a lich.

lisiecki
2010-06-21, 12:47 AM
The IUD of a epic level sorceress

urukanzal
2010-07-18, 07:12 PM
going back to three previous ideas

you could say that other liches are your phylactery and have 12 liches total each one having another one his phylactery that way you would have to kill them all. You tell everybody this writing it down and having bards sing about it that way everyone thinks that you would have to kill all the liches at one time to destroy them forever. However in reality 11 out of the 12 liches have a gold coin as their phylactery which they give off to merchants and the final 12 lich has his phylactery as a grain of sand on another planet in another dimension. That way if the enemy heroes did discover all the 11 coins somehow they would spend forever trying to find the last coin when there is no last coin.

Shademan
2010-07-18, 07:24 PM
hidden inside my mundane dagger. the adventurers are unlikely to loot it or even care about it. naturaly I will have it sheilded against scrying.

Jeffanth
2010-07-18, 07:54 PM
1. kobold
2. make him a phylactery
3. pun-pun
4. ???
5. profit!

ScionoftheVoid
2010-07-18, 08:00 PM
Since your Phylactery can be anything you can create using lots of gold and some experience, would a very expensive bottle of wine and a very draining night with the most powerful creature you can become attractive to (via Polymorph for example) work?

Alternatively:

1. Create a Phylactery as an item, form isn't important but a statue of some sort helps the initial PAO duration.
2. Cast Dispel Magic on it. Phylactery is temporarily a non-magic item.
3. Use PAO to change it into a creature, preferably but not necessarily immortal.
4. Change it into it's current form using PAO, the effect is now permanent.
(Above two steps work even better through Supernatural abilities to prevent dispelling)
5. Have said creature become beloved by the world, and never let them know who created them (Memory Modification helps the second, there's a spell in the SpC that helps both, 9th level Enchantment).
6.????
7. Profit, maniacal laughter is optional.

Basically have a living phylactery, they look after themselves. Literally.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-18, 08:01 PM
Disguise it as a rock and throw it in a large pile of rocks in some random location.

Thiyr
2010-07-18, 08:11 PM
Make one of these (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a) my phylactery. Make it use dimension door every second on it self, teleporting in a random direction that isn't up or down. Only risk ends up being the damage if it tries to teleport into something, so insert general item protective enchantments, and the only problem you'll have is someone grabbing it and DDing with it. But then again, teleporting six times a round's gotta be disorienting, so that might not be much of an issue either.

Dracons
2010-07-18, 09:15 PM
hidden inside my mundane dagger. the adventurers are unlikely to loot it or even care about it. naturaly I will have it sheilded against scrying.

I've had adventurers and groups rip the gold fillings out of a goblin's tooth. The idea of not taking everything from a dungeon is foriegn and unheard of to them. They take it all. They never sell items. They only buy gems to carry GP easier, bags of holding, food/supplies, and more powerful magic items and spells.

Hell, one of the psions used a bag of holding just to carry a inert golem to throw with his psionic telekeniss attack and do massive damage.

Ranos
2010-07-18, 09:43 PM
I make the Pioneer plaque my phylactery.

Archpaladin Zousha
2010-07-19, 12:17 AM
Every time I see this question, I have to shake my head. There's an insultingly simple answer to this question. I'd hide my phylactery in the foundations of my evil arcane sanctum when I'm building it, so the only way those meddling adventurers could destroy it would be to tear the entire place apart brick by brick. Magic and traps have got nothing on good, solid architecture.

Lord Raziere
2010-07-19, 12:23 AM
The world is slightly bigger than Fine sized :smallwink:

shrink it first!

Ajadea
2010-07-19, 12:27 AM
Take a whatever. Doesn't really matter. Enchant it with the brilliant energy enchantment. Stick it in a brick of solid adamantine. Coat the adamantine with a thin layer of lead. Use the brick as part of the foundation for the altar to the dark unholy gods I worship.

Dracons
2010-07-19, 01:04 AM
Every time I see this question, I have to shake my head. There's an insultingly simple answer to this question. I'd hide my phylactery in the foundations of my evil arcane sanctum when I'm building it, so the only way those meddling adventurers could destroy it would be to tear the entire place apart brick by brick. Magic and traps have got nothing on good, solid architecture.

*Vision*

Ahh there it is.

*Disintegrate Walls*

*Disintegrate Phylactery*

Well, let's go baby sit the Tarrasque's children in the abyss again guys.

Fishy
2010-07-19, 01:20 AM
So, here's mine. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334)

Psion/Beguiler/Cerebromancer/Thrallherd, with the Onieromancy feat tree from Heroes of Horror.

1) Using Thrallherd powers, assemble a cult of 108 Warforged or Elan.
2) Explain to them that you are granting them leave from this vale of tears, and giving them the honor of serving you in the next life.
3) Cajole or Dominate your believers into self-flagellating to -1 HP, or beat them all senseless.
4) Manifest microcosm, shorting out their senses and linking all of their minds together in one shared hallucination.
5) Cast dream walk, and go there.

You now have a quasi-real, semi-sentient pocket universe formed out of the dreams, desires and delusions of an army of immortals who worship you as a living god. To you, it's a paradise limited only by your imagination. To anyone who wants to hurt the phylactery, it's a hate-filled nightmare where the laws of causality don't apply. Why settle for a lame spell like genesis?

All you have to do is hide the inert bodies of your followers anywhere you'd put a phylactery. Put one in each of your various lairs so that you can use dream walk to teleport there. Bury one in the Elemental Plane of Earth, toss one into the Elemental Plane of Air, sink one in the Elemental plane of Water. Polymorph Any Object one into statuary. Polymorph Any Object one into a needle in a haystack. Polymorph Any Object one into the keystone for a kitten orphanage. Find another immortal, Dream Walk into his mind, and leave one there. Give one the old Rope Trick Inside A Rope Trick Trick. Have one Nailed To The Sky.

Zieu
2010-07-19, 01:30 AM
It may sound simple, but I'd toss it into a Heward's Handy Haversack and then chuck in assorted sharp objects, rupturing the extradimensional space within. Everything inside is simply lost in that space and unable to be recalled.

RE:Insanity
2010-07-19, 01:42 AM
Put it in a cursed handy haversack (you only have a one in however many items there are in the bag x2 chance to pull it out, each bag has its own dimension and can store as many items as you want and negates weight and you have to know what you're looking for to even have a chance at getting ANY item), get rid of the magic aura, and fill the bag with a buttload of useless, sharp, and rusty crap. Put the haversack in a bag of holding with an item that generates an anti-magic field on command, so the only way to get it is to go to the bags extradimensional space and speak the anti-magic item's command word (take all the air out of that extradimensional space so there's no sound) and then go back to the normal realm and open the bag and search through the haversack. Fill both extradimensional spaces with mindless guardians. Give the now-nonmagical bag of holding to a young child with a pure heart. Enjoy existing forever.
EDIT: Oh, and store a copy of your spellbook in the haversack's dimension, so you's can port out.

Prplcheez
2010-07-19, 02:11 AM
Personal demiplane, then fill it with solid rock around the phylactery.

On second thought, that might be a bad idea...

Starshade
2010-07-19, 04:13 AM
Inside a comet appearing regularly on the sky. :smallsmile:

Gorgondantess
2010-07-19, 04:15 AM
I'd eat it. Who would think to check your chest cavity for your phylactery?

FelixG
2010-07-19, 04:50 AM
Well, im surprised this hasn't been mentioned in 6 pages...

-cracks fingers-

A truely brilliant lich, after going through all the trouble of hiding his Phylactery has to do one simple thing to preserve his life indefinatly.
well one simple thing with several simple steps

step 1) create a second dimensional space, like a perminant magniicient mansion

step 2) cast a few simple anti location spells, dont need big ones simple ones will work

step 3) copy most of your items, the mundain things like spellbooks and a work shop

step 4) bring a simple undead or construct here with UMD

step 5) grow a clone through the clone spell
( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm )

step 6) create a wand of gentle repose 1/day
( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gentlerepose.htm )

step 7) give wand to said undead or construct and have it wave it around every day till it casts

step 8) leave and never come back

and by doing all of this, you provide yourself with a brand new body, should your mcguffin ever be broken, as your soul once released will seek out the clone and you can become a lich again as you have the stuff copied in your stored spellbook there

For added insult to injury, before becoming a lich again, seek out the party that killed you in your fresh new humanoid body, befriend them, then while they are sleeping you murder them all in their sleep before resuming your lichhood, teach them to screw with the wrong lich :D

repeat as needed

Dracons
2010-07-19, 05:14 PM
Well, im surprised this hasn't been mentioned in 6 pages...

-cracks fingers-

A truely brilliant lich, after going through all the trouble of hiding his Phylactery has to do one simple thing to preserve his life indefinatly.
well one simple thing with several simple steps

step 1) create a second dimensional space, like a perminant magniicient mansion

step 2) cast a few simple anti location spells, dont need big ones simple ones will work

step 3) copy most of your items, the mundain things like spellbooks and a work shop

step 4) bring a simple undead or construct here with UMD

step 5) grow a clone through the clone spell
( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm )

step 6) create a wand of gentle repose 1/day
( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gentlerepose.htm )

step 7) give wand to said undead or construct and have it wave it around every day till it casts

step 8) leave and never come back

and by doing all of this, you provide yourself with a brand new body, should your mcguffin ever be broken, as your soul once released will seek out the clone and you can become a lich again as you have the stuff copied in your stored spellbook there

For added insult to injury, before becoming a lich again, seek out the party that killed you in your fresh new humanoid body, befriend them, then while they are sleeping you murder them all in their sleep before resuming your lichhood, teach them to screw with the wrong lich :D

repeat as needed

*crack* True... maybe, but since your already dead (being a lich) your soul would just automatically go into the clone. Phylactery merely holds your soul, not trap it. So it would just go right into the clone body. (Assumeing you made one before you became a lich in the first place).

FelixG
2010-07-19, 08:04 PM
*crack* True... maybe, but since your already dead (being a lich) your soul would just automatically go into the clone. Phylactery merely holds your soul, not trap it. So it would just go right into the clone body. (Assumeing you made one before you became a lich in the first place).

The Phylactery contains your soul, and if your soul wishes to stay there instead of going to the clone it stays ~.^ plus you make the clone after you are a lich, all you need to do is chop some of your hair off before hand, turn into a lich then grow the clone

"(provided that the soul is free and willing to return)"

you could say that while the liches Soul is "stored" there it is trapped and cant be released until it is destroyed.

Dracons
2010-07-19, 11:22 PM
The Phylactery contains your soul, and if your soul wishes to stay there instead of going to the clone it stays ~.^ plus you make the clone after you are a lich, all you need to do is chop some of your hair off before hand, turn into a lich then grow the clone

"(provided that the soul is free and willing to return)"

you could say that while the liches Soul is "stored" there it is trapped and cant be released until it is destroyed.

Perhaps, but that whole 120,000 gp a pop for lich, over and over? Gets alittle costy. That and remaking your spellbook each time.

Deth Muncher
2010-07-20, 12:30 AM
Perhaps, but that whole 120,000 gp a pop for lich, over and over? Gets alittle costy. That and remaking your spellbook each time.

...Yeah, but screw the rules, you have money. Really, liches aren't liches because they're hobos. They're liches because they have tons of wealth and power. Also, you don't sleep, so what's to keep you from staying up for a week and recopying your spellbook 50 times just in case?

FelixG
2010-07-20, 04:05 AM
Perhaps, but that whole 120,000 gp a pop for lich, over and over? Gets alittle costy. That and remaking your spellbook each time.

note that this is after hidingthe Mcguffin, this is just a third step, make mcguffin, hide mcguffin from pesky adventurers, make clone.

then they have to beat you, find the item, break it, then even if all else fails you can come back and get your revenge.

Eventualy word will get out (or hopefully not) that you cant be killed even if your soul item is borked and people will just say F it to the whole deal and just avoid you!

Eliort
2010-07-20, 04:58 AM
This specific cube. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285492/)


Huh, and here I was expecting a picture of the Weighted Companion Cube from Portal in that link

Yeah, ditto. Then I noticed that it was an IMDB link and figured it was gonna take me to the profile of Stanley Kubrick :smalltongue:

Chanmanm8
2010-07-20, 12:12 PM
Didn't read all of the pages, but in some of the posts I saw some epic examples not under the "below level 20" part that the OP said, so for my epic version:

Use the epic spell that split your phylactery into multiply phylacteries. The lich who made the spell in the WoTC book used of the bones of an apprentice of a rival caster, resulting in 206 protected and hidden phylacteries across all the planes, cloaked against all manners of divination including detection for undead, or for the remains of Dethed (the name of his rival's apprentice with which he made these phylacteries).

I'd adapt the idea further, placing them in areas that characters are highly likely to get lost such as some of the damned sub realms of abyss or hells that infinitely wind around such as the Endless Caverns, as well as areas lined with naturally occurring veins of lead to render teleportation in or out of the complex impossible

Following another character (whose name I'd forget), I'd make a small portion laced with the protections within mobile adamantine spider golems so they're mobile.

I don't know if this is possible, but for this ridiculous epic example, make some of the phylacteries sentient/intelligent and mobile as well so they're on the move or able to move if something is near.

tundrawalker1
2010-07-20, 12:21 PM
The Phylactery contains your soul, and if your soul wishes to stay there instead of going to the clone it stays ~.^ plus you make the clone after you are a lich, all you need to do is chop some of your hair off before hand, turn into a lich then grow the clone

"(provided that the soul is free and willing to return)"

you could say that while the liches Soul is "stored" there it is trapped and cant be released until it is destroyed.


The Clone spell requires a piece of flesh from the living body. You cannot create a clone of yourself once you are a lich.

FelixG
2010-07-20, 04:37 PM
The Clone spell requires a piece of flesh from the living body. You cannot create a clone of yourself once you are a lich.

Oh but you can, it requires a piece true enough, but say you cut a peice of your flesh off before you became a lich. It specifically says that it doesn't have to be fresh but cant be rotting. Thus you cast gentle repose on the chunk of flesh or hair or what have you, finish up your lichdom ceremony then clone the body from the well preserved hunk-o-matter

Theodoriph
2010-07-20, 06:01 PM
I'd make some kind of indestructible (by natural means) rock. I'd ward it from scrying. I'd make it invisible. Then I'd enchant it so that every time someone seeking it comes within 100 km of it, it teleports somewhere else on the surface of the material plane at least 100km away from any creatures seeking it and any intelligent creatures, while leaving a rock identical in all aspect in its place.

I'm sure there are other enchanments I could throw on it to make it even safer.



Alternatively I'd make it a needle and throw it in a haystack. Problem solved.

tundrawalker1
2010-07-22, 06:16 PM
Oh but you can, it requires a piece true enough, but say you cut a peice of your flesh off before you became a lich. It specifically says that it doesn't have to be fresh but cant be rotting. Thus you cast gentle repose on the chunk of flesh or hair or what have you, finish up your lichdom ceremony then clone the body from the well preserved hunk-o-matter

Right but you would come back as a non-undead creature then.

FelixG
2010-07-22, 06:19 PM
Right but you would come back as a non-undead creature then.

Of course you would....This is meant to be a third layer of protection for a lich, first they have to kill you, then destroy your phylactery. Assuming it gets that bad you want to make sure you arnt completely boned, so coming back as a meatbag is preferable to not coming back at all.

tundrawalker1
2010-07-23, 09:44 AM
Of course you would....This is meant to be a third layer of protection for a lich, first they have to kill you, then destroy your phylactery. Assuming it gets that bad you want to make sure you arnt completely boned, so coming back as a meatbag is preferable to not coming back at all.

You sir, are correct. :smallsmile:

thompur
2010-07-23, 10:59 AM
Disguise it as a rock and throw it in a large pile of rocks in some random location.

This, plus create a great fortress with a deep level with a tomb guarded by all sorts of powerful magiks and monsters, in which you hide a very fancy jeweled amulet. The rock pile being nowhere near by.

braxsus
2010-07-23, 11:28 AM
Suffice to say that there are dozens of ways to secure the phylactery..some are so complicated..it goes a bit over board...

the funny thing is, there is never any mention on how a PC pays for, in addition to the phylatcary's intial cost, for these complicated hiding places..

I would like to see the itemized cost , both gold and XP for some of these ideas..
I think most PC Liches would be broke just becoming a lich, unless Monty is hanging around

DM Liches, by defacto, have "unlimited" resources..so suffice to say,a DM can hide it so it would never be found

So i counter propose the question,"
As a PC , How would you hide you phylactery when you just created it and spent your wealth doing so.
All you have left is your spells, with the most basic of components that your DM would normally allow, and say 5000gp..you've put aside to spend on securing your phylactery

Of course you can modify later as funds become available..in the short term though, what would you do?


My short term thoughts run along the lines of Magic Aura phylactary, Rock to Mud some big boulder, place phylacatry in mud, dispell magic on mud, reverts back to big boulder with Phylactary deep inside it, bury boulder somewhere deep in the middle of no where where noe would mine in the future..like a Corn field

Security through obscurity

Theodoriph
2010-07-23, 01:28 PM
Suffice to say that there are dozens of ways to secure the phylactery..some are so complicated..it goes a bit over board...

the funny thing is, there is never any mention on how a PC pays for, in addition to the phylatcary's intial cost, for these complicated hiding places..

I would like to see the itemized cost , both gold and XP for some of these ideas..
I think most PC Liches would be broke just becoming a lich, unless Monty is hanging around

DM Liches, by defacto, have "unlimited" resources..so suffice to say,a DM can hide it so it would never be found

So i counter propose the question,"
As a PC , How would you hide you phylactery when you just created it and spent your wealth doing so.
All you have left is your spells, with the most basic of components that your DM would normally allow, and say 5000gp..you've put aside to spend on securing your phylactery

Of course you can modify later as funds become available..in the short term though, what would you do?


My short term thoughts run along the lines of Magic Aura phylactary, Rock to Mud some big boulder, place phylacatry in mud, dispell magic on mud, reverts back to big boulder with Phylactary deep inside it, bury boulder somewhere deep in the middle of no where where noe would mine in the future..like a Corn field

Security through obscurity


Well if it's a world where the exchange of money is common.

I make my phylactery a piece of silver, ward it from any detection/aura spells and then just let it enter into the general stream of currency.

Can I do that for 5000gp and the spells I know....I can't be bothered to check the spell compendium atm to make sure =D

Avilan the Grey
2010-07-23, 01:37 PM
I would keep it in a big government warehouse, where top men would be investigating it. Top men.

Lord Bingo
2010-07-23, 06:35 PM
I would put it on a rocket and launch it into space. The odds of someone getting at it is astronomical:smallamused: Pun aside, it is unlikely that the rocket will hit anything in the vastness of space and the longer it travels the more unlikely it becomes that anyone existing at it's point of origin will ever be able to come after it.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-23, 06:37 PM
Turn it into a macguffin that way I'll know I survive at least the entire campaign.

Andion Isurand
2010-07-23, 07:44 PM
I would use Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery every day to add coins to my "phylactery set of objects" and then spend some of the coins in various places so they continue to circulate through the economy.

Dracons
2010-07-23, 08:56 PM
I would put it on a rocket and launch it into space. The odds of someone getting at it is astronomical:smallamused: Pun aside, it is unlikely that the rocket will hit anything in the vastness of space and the longer it travels the more unlikely it becomes that anyone existing at it's point of origin will ever be able to come after it.


Assuming your DM doesn't play by Spelljammer rules and never told you, in which case it'll likely get captured by several spaceships.

wick
2010-07-23, 10:17 PM
If any DM used unlimited DM funds to spread Phylacteries across the planes I would not bother to play much less fight his Lich. He may as well just say that the Lich is indestructable by DM fiat. Really the whole point of a Lich having a phlactery is for players to be intiaitally frustrated by a powerful reoccurring villian that they have to quest in order to track down his phylactery, but in the end they do get the opportunity to get their hands on it.

That being said, you need to put yourself in that mind set.

Epic feat or not the multiple phylacteries is ridiculous, really you split your soul into 5 parts? So what happens if a fith of your soul is destroyed? People are assuming that there would be no effect, why? The phylactery is not an emergency teleport location that you go to when you die, you actually regrow your body from that location and the phylactery contains your frickin soul.

The phylactery on a different plane than where you die, me thinks that is a bit far fetched too.

Enemies; I think the good party of adventurers may be the least of your enemies. Consider all of your rivals. How about the devil/demons that were cheated out of a nice, juicy soul that through the character's chosen life style would have been on an express train to hell. What other powerful being could use a lich's phylactery to control him.

Natural disasters: Hide it in a granite block deep underground. Just hope that someday theat block does not get engulfed in lava.

These are the reasons that he does not just throw the phylactery as a grain of sand into a deep desert. But rather hides the phylactery in a private sanctum that is well defended.

Zeful
2010-07-23, 11:58 PM
Epic feat or not the multiple phylacteries is ridiculous, really you split your soul into 5 parts? So what happens if a fith of your soul is destroyed? People are assuming that there would be no effect, why? The phylactery is not an emergency teleport location that you go to when you die, you actually regrow your body from that location and the phylactery contains your frickin soul.None of this is RAW. When a Lich dies it's soul goes to it's phylactery. Then over 1d10 days it reforms. Where is at the DM's prerogative.


The phylactery on a different plane than where you die, me thinks that is a bit far fetched too.Why, the implications of this sentence means that no soul actually goes to the afterlife, if they can't cross planar boundaries. If they can, then there's no reason a Lich's can't.


Natural disasters: Hide it in a granite block deep underground. Just hope that someday theat block does not get engulfed in lava.Brilliant energy enchancement makes it pass through all non living matter.


These are the reasons that he does not just throw the phylactery as a grain of sand into a deep desert. But rather hides the phylactery in a private sanctum that is well defended.Because that's impossible by all the phylactery rules. You can't make your phylactery a grain of sand, or a coin, or a magic item, ever. No, not even then.

BobVosh
2010-07-24, 06:42 AM
None of this is RAW. When a Lich dies it's soul goes to it's phylactery. Then over 1d10 days it reforms. Where is at the DM's prerogative.

Rejuvenation (Su): When a lich is destroyed, its phylactery (which is generally hidden by the lich in a safe place far from where it chooses to dwell) immediately begins to rebuild the undead spellcaster's body nearby.
(thats Pathfinder, regular srd is blocked at work)


Because that's impossible by all the phylactery rules. You can't make your phylactery a grain of sand, or a coin, or a magic item, ever. No, not even then.

No, it can't start as one. But you can polymorph any object it into one.