Backup Character Help!! 3.5

[TripperdeCleric]

Trying to make a good ranged ARcher. I need great damage.

You have 10 levels to work with.


I was thinking 1Rogue/9 Fighter.
That might not be so good.


Any books are allowed.

I need a weapon. dont worry about the cost. I just want a good setup for ranged damage. Need this incase my main character gets killed, I see it coming.

PrCs are allowed.
You also have 4 flaws worth of feats to work with.

[PId6]

Obligatory Handbook Link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0)

What kind of archer are you looking for? A sneaky one (Rogue)? A skirmishing scout (Swift Hunter)? A long range volley archer (Eternal Blade)?

[gbprime]

Crusader 1 / Fighter 4 / Order of the Bow Initiate 5. You get +3d8 damage within 30 feet when you fire one shot. Stock up on a holy bow and various fire/frost/acid arrows.

[TripperdeCleric]

Im thinking of playing a sneaky Tree Hopper.

So would take hide/MS/Jump and leap from tree to tree and all that.

Book for order of the bow initiate?

[Draz74]

You're probably going to get answers that are WAY beyond your group's power level, or your play skill (judging by the fact that you even thought of Rogue 1/Fighter 9). Like Divine Metamagic Persist Polymorph Arrow Demon Cleric Archers, which would probably just give you a headache.

So you should probably give us some more restrictions. :smallwink:

The simple "standard" way to get a good high-damage Archer build is a Scout/Ranger with the Swift Hunter and Greater Manyshot feats.

EDIT: Order of the Bow Initiate sucks.

[PId6]

Fighter 5 / Order of the Bow Initiate 5. You get +3d8 damage within 30 feet when you fire one shot. Stock up on a holy bow and various fire/frost/acid arrows.
Order of the Bow Initiate is a huge trap. Two levels may be alright for Close Combat Shot, but Ranged Precision is a terrible way to deal damage. Archers excel at making a huge number of attacks, and restricting yourself to a single attack a round is a terrible waste of potential.

Also, ending on odd level of Fighter = *shudder*.

Edit: Draz ninja'd me with a much more eloquent way to put it.

I'd suggest Swift Hunter for that one (Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0)). Not sure about the mechanics of it, but tree hopping likely involves movement, and Swift Hunter does moving + attacking very well. Something like Scout 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger X.

[Loren]

most people will tell you fighters aren't very good, but a few feats could help
-particularly point blank
the sneak attacks will really increase your damage so try to get that up. Also consider how you'll get your sneak attacks. Yuo'll need some way to hide yourself. Alternatively, if you are a scout you get the equivalent of sneak attack when you move more than 10 feet. This make them easier to get, but it means that you won't be able to take full round actions (like shooting multiple arrows, which with the right gear may be more valuable).
A rogue in my party got a bow that was encanted with ray of enfeeblement, so 1d6+1 st damage on every hit. It was amazing, for a lvl 1 spell (you should deffinately be able to afford it.
which bring me to another point, lots of shots. While sneak attact only applies once, ranged characters can get off alot of shots with feats. It's particularly good when you have a weapon like the afore meantioned. With just a few rounds of shooting multiple st damage arrow our rogue could reduce any opponant without SR to a quivering pile of flesh.

[Zore]

Heck you could go Warlock 10 and fluff your eldritch blast as some sort of magical bow. They get some nice support powers and their damage is consistent at range if not the absolute best.

[PId6]

You're probably going to get answers that are WAY beyond your group's power level, or your play skill (judging by the fact that you even thought of Rogue 1/Fighter 9). Like Divine Metamagic Persist Polymorph Arrow Demon Cleric Archers, which would probably just give you a headache.
Well, to be fair, Polymorphing into Arrow Demons is by far the most optimal way to play an archer. The challenge is how to apply DMM Persist to Polymorph, since it's not a divine spell and it's touch range. I'd use a Naenhoon Illumian Wizard/Sacred Exorcist to apply the Illumian version of DMM to my Draconic Polymorph, since that has no such restrictions on arcane/divine and is of fixed range (with a nice boost).

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Well, to be fair, Polymorphing into Arrow Demons is by far the most optimal way to play an archer. The challenge is how to apply DMM Persist to Polymorph, since it's not a divine spell and it's touch range. I'd use a Naenhoon Illumian Wizard/Sacred Exorcist to apply the Illumian version of DMM to my Draconic Polymorph, since that has no such restrictions on arcane/divine and is of fixed range (with a nice boost).Well, assuming touch range spells are valid for persistent spell in the first place, you could just go Incantatrix, pump your spellcraft using various shenanigans, and Metamagic Effect the persist onto the polymorph. Then grab a bunch of other personal buffs and persist them as well. Edit: And if touch range isn't a fixed range, slap on Ocular Spell.

Of course, Incantatrix isn't an appropriate power level for many groups, but neither is 24 hour polymorph.

[PId6]

Edit: And if touch range isn't a fixed range, slap on Ocular Spell.
Draconic Polymorph works way better. Personal range, and gives you +8 Str/+2 Con (IIRC) in addition to normal Polymorph benefits.

[TripperdeCleric]

The power range im not sure of. The dm said go with what i want. What is this demon arrow stuff? It sounds pretty rockin.

The rogue/fighter idea was just an idea to show what i was looking for. Someone who hides and hits hard. via SA though..which wasnt that great of an idea..

[PId6]

The power range im not sure of. The dm said go with what i want. What is this demon arrow stuff? It sounds pretty rockin.
Arrow Demon is in MM3. Besides great stats, it offers Close Combat Shot, larger bows, and the awesome ability to wield two bows at once, effectively doubling your number of attacks. It's 10 HD, so you're exactly high enough level to Polymorph into it, assuming you're willing to break your DM's game into splinters.

[gbprime]

Order of the Bow Initiate is a huge trap. Two levels may be alright for Close Combat Shot, but Ranged Precision is a terrible way to deal damage. Archers excel at making a huge number of attacks, and restricting yourself to a single attack a round is a terrible waste of potential.

Also, ending on odd level of Fighter = *shudder*.

Given the initial start of rogue1/fighter 9, Order of the Bow Initiate seems to be quite the improvement in concept without breaking into the terrifying territory of mangling the laws of physics through optimisation. Let's face it, suggesting polymorphing into an arrow demon as a character path doesn't sound SANE on it's face unless you're used to working the rules in such a fashion. Start small.

And yeah, you're right. I changed it before I saw your response. fighter 4 / Crusader 1 before the PrC.

[TripperdeCleric]

How do you go about polymorphing into it?

[PId6]

Given the initial start of rogue1/fighter 9, Order of the Bow Initiate seems to be quite the improvement in concept without breaking into the terrifying territory of mangling the laws of physics through optimisation. Let's face it, suggesting polymorphing into an arrow demon as a character path doesn't sound SANE on it's face unless you're used to working the rules in such a fashion. Start small.

And yeah, you're right. I changed it before I saw your response. fighter 4 / Crusader 1 before the PrC.
For Rogue 1/Fighter 9, it can actually be done fairly decently, assuming Fighter is using Sneak Attack and Thug variants. Straight Rogue 10 is probably better, but that's still not terrible.

And yeah, I wouldn't actually suggest Arrow Demon for most games, though Draz totally provoked it this time (:smallwink:). Something like Swift Hunter is probably the best way to fill the concept and still be far more powerful than Order of the Bow Initiate. It really is a terrible PrC.


How do you go about polymorphing into it?
You have to become an Outsider first. Either be an Aasimar/Tiefling with LA Buyoff, a Neraphim, or cast Fiendform first.

[TripperdeCleric]

Your looking at tier 1-3 characters...optimizing. Ok ill look into that..what book is it in?

[PId6]

Your looking at tier 1-3 characters...optimizing. Ok ill look into that..what book is it in?
What? Swift Hunter? It's a Ranger/Scout multiclass (Scout is in CAdv), using the Swift Hunter feat (CSc). I've already linked the handbook above.

[TripperdeCleric]

Alright Thanks. Seeing if the dm will work with me on a race...something that just has the two bows and close combat. oversized weapons and such. It looks like a great setup for my char.