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TechnOkami
2010-06-17, 12:51 AM
Currently, the best class combination that I know of for a Druid is as follows: Druid + Nature's Warrior + Master of Many Forms. What other class combines are there which would be good with the Druid class?

P.S. Is there anything else you can do with a Druid besides specializing in wildshape while being a powerful class build?

Starscream
2010-06-17, 12:58 AM
I'm 90% likely to get ninja'd, but the best thing for druid is more druid. Unlike most full casters, druid actually has some awesome class features beyond spells, and it sucks to give any of them up.

No PrC advances Spellcasting and Wild Shape, and your animal companion. All three of those features are a part of what makes a druid so awesome, so why not just go druid 20 and keep them all? No real downside.

The only PrC I know of that really increases a druid's power is Planar Shepherd, and it is so cheesy and broken that most DMs ban it outright.

gorfnab
2010-06-17, 01:01 AM
No PrC advances Spellcasting and Wild Shape, and your animal companion. All three of those features are a part of what makes a druid so awesome, so why not just go druid 20 and keep them all? No real downside.

Planar Shepherd advances wildshape, animal companion, and spellcasting.

Druid + Planar Shepherd (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook) = 10 rounds of "time stop" for you per actual round of game play if you choose Dal Quor (actually better than time stop since you can do whatever you could normally do in a given round).

TechnOkami
2010-06-17, 01:06 AM
What book is this found in?

Starscream
2010-06-17, 01:09 AM
Planar Shepherd advances wildshape, animal companion, and spellcasting.

Oh, it does? I never noticed that it advanced your animal companion. I guess I gave up on it after I saw the part about getting the elemental or outsiderís extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities that you wild shape into, and the page became too soaked with laughter spittle to continue reading.

Seriously, there's no way they playtested that class. :smallbiggrin:


What book is this found in?

Faiths of Eberron. If your DM has never heard of it, give the class a try. You'll be able to make him either cry of throw a book at your head, I promise.:smallwink:

gbprime
2010-06-17, 01:31 AM
Personally, i'd like to try the alt class that gets Wis to AC, dip a level of cloistered cleric, and take Mystic Wanderer from Magic of Faerun for the CHA to AC. Two devotion feats on top of that is an insane amount of armor class.

You give up wildshape for that, though. Still have your pet, good summoning options, and decent elemental blasty magic (possibly bolstered by a reserve feat).

TechnOkami
2010-06-17, 02:22 AM
Planar Shepherd advances wildshape, animal companion, and spellcasting.

Druid + Planar Shepherd (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook) = 10 rounds of "time stop" for you per actual round of game play if you choose Dal Quor (actually better than time stop since you can do whatever you could normally do in a given round).

So, would Dal Quor or Lamannia be a better plain to bind yourself to?

gorfnab
2010-06-17, 03:28 AM
So, would Dal Quor or Lamannia be a better plain to bind yourself to?
10 rounds of "time stop" per round versus free limited wishes and potentially free wishes...tough call and depends on the campaign. I would say which ever one doesn't involve your DM chucking a book at your head.

sonofzeal
2010-06-17, 03:36 AM
I would say which ever one doesn't involve your DM chucking a book at your head.
Er, I think we're fresh out of those. Best we can hope for is "whatever's nearest", as opposed to "the deluxe steel-bound expanded translation of War And Peace".

Sliver
2010-06-17, 03:36 AM
I would say which ever one doesn't involve your DM chucking a book at your head.

If your DM didn't do it as soon as he heard you are aiming for PS, he probably has no limits.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-17, 03:46 AM
If your DM didn't do it as soon as he heard you are aiming for PS, he probably has no limits.

Unless he's never heard of it before.


You really can't go wrong with just Druid 20. Making it 'better' only ends up being 'too good' compared with the rest of the party, who will likely be dissatisfied with being reduced to sidekicks. Unless everyone else is playing equally broken characters (half-minotaur war hulking hurlers and spellhoarding dragonwrought kobold loredrakes and cheaters of mystra) then go ahead, but otherwise it's in the best interests of yourself and the rest of your gaming group for you to not use planar shepherd.

gbprime
2010-06-17, 08:42 AM
Depends on how far you go with it. If you jump into a PrC like Holt Warden, you're giving up some stuff to get some other stuff, and that's fine.

casper
2010-06-17, 10:32 AM
Druid+<your favorite arcane spellcaster)+Arcane Hierophant (Rases of Wild) combination is good. Arcane Hierophant is the best dual-progression PrC as far as I can tell. You trade 3 levels of Druid for up to 13 levels of arcane caster. 1 level for up to 11 with some cheeze. All 3 main Druid class features - spells, Wild Shape and Animall Companion - continue progress, and the last one is even improved.

gbprime
2010-06-17, 10:45 AM
Druid+<your favorite arcane spellcaster)+Arcane Hierophant (Rases of Wild) combination is good. Arcane Hierophant is the best dual-progression PrC as far as I can tell.

It's pretty happy. Druid pet with familiar abilities, no loss of XP when it dies. Share an Antimagic Field onto your high level pet and watch it rip through things while you step in and out of the radius to cast and duck spells.

Gnaeus
2010-06-17, 10:46 AM
Druid+<your favorite arcane spellcaster)+Arcane Hierophant (Rases of Wild) combination is good. Arcane Hierophant is the best dual-progression PrC as far as I can tell. You trade 3 levels of Druid for up to 13 levels of arcane caster. 1 level for up to 11 with some cheeze. All 3 main Druid class features - spells, Wild Shape and Animall Companion - continue progress, and the last one is even improved.

Arcane Hierophant is fun, but not as good as Druid 20 for most of its progression.

You have MAD problems. Need Int and Wis, and can't dump dex and str as hard as a normal druid because you don't get Natural Spell until level 9.

You get a few more spells per day, but you are behind 1-2 spell levels from a normal druid, thats huge.

You continue getting Wildshape, but you are far enough behind that you can't really fight in it. This is due to both type availability and HD limit. (For example, you get large WS at level 11, normal druid gets huge WS at 12). Can't get natural spell or Enhance wild shape until 3 levels later, etc.

The AC/familiar is more flexible, but not usually more powerful. The added wizard buffs make up for the fact that you are 1-2 spell levels behind in which Druid buffs you can use. This assumes that you burned 2 feats on Natural Bond and Companion Spellbond. If you didn't, advantage is back to Druid 20 here also.

Yes, Druid 7/Wizard 3/AH 10 is arguably stronger than Druid 20, but its an uphill climb to get there. Personally, I use AH as a self nerf when playing with low tier or low optimization parties.

gbprime
2010-06-17, 10:52 AM
Well you gotta admit, keeping an advanced, buffed Dire Bear in your Familiar Pocket is classic lulz. :smallamused:

Gnaeus
2010-06-17, 10:57 AM
Well you gotta admit, keeping an advanced, buffed Dire Bear in your Familiar Pocket is classic lulz. :smallamused:

As I said. Its fun. It just isn't as strong as Druid 20 between character level 5 and 19. MoMF is a fun class also.

Edit: If you can use an early entry trick to get into it with only 1 level of wizard it becomes very strong indeed. I don't assume that as the default in most games.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-17, 11:03 AM
Unless he's never heard of it before.

I personally think it's not very fair to pounce something on a DM like that.



You really can't go wrong with just Druid 20. Making it 'better' only ends up being 'too good' compared with the rest of the party, who will likely be dissatisfied with being reduced to sidekicks. Unless everyone else is playing equally broken characters (half-minotaur war hulking hurlers and spellhoarding dragonwrought kobold loredrakes and cheaters of mystra) then go ahead, but otherwise it's in the best interests of yourself and the rest of your gaming group for you to not use planar shepherd.

gbprime
2010-06-17, 11:13 AM
If you can use an early entry trick to get into it with only 1 level of wizard it becomes very strong indeed. I don't assume that as the default in most games.

Well Arcane Hierophant is partially immune to early-entry cheese. Sure, you can use 1 level of wizard by taking Precocious Apprentice (or Sanctum Spell plus 1 other Metamagic feat), but you still have the BAB +4 requirement to fill. So that's still Druid 4 / Wizard 2 at the earliest, or Druid 6 / Wiz 1 if you still want just 1 level of dip to qualify.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-17, 11:39 AM
Well Arcane Hierophant is partially immune to early-entry cheese. Sure, you can use 1 level of wizard by taking Precocious Apprentice (or Sanctum Spell plus 1 other Metamagic feat), but you still have the BAB +4 requirement to fill. So that's still Druid 4 / Wizard 2 at the earliest, or Druid 6 / Wiz 1 if you still want just 1 level of dip to qualify.

Druid 6/wiz 1/Arcane Hierphant 10 is preety good, you are only 1 level behind on druid casting, you get your wildshape and there are some good low level wizards spells

Gnaeus
2010-06-17, 11:40 AM
Well Arcane Hierophant is partially immune to early-entry cheese. Sure, you can use 1 level of wizard by taking Precocious Apprentice (or Sanctum Spell plus 1 other Metamagic feat), but you still have the BAB +4 requirement to fill. So that's still Druid 4 / Wizard 2 at the earliest, or Druid 6 / Wiz 1 if you still want just 1 level of dip to qualify.

Thats the one. As I said, I generally assume no early entry unless told otherwise.

Greenish
2010-06-17, 01:39 PM
No PrC advances Spellcasting and Wild Shape, and your animal companion.Lion of Talisid (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004b) from BoED. It's two levels behind pure druid in wildshaping, but has full casting and animal companion advancement.

It's not significantly weaker than a full druid.

Ormagoden
2010-06-17, 01:47 PM
If your DM didn't do it as soon as he heard you are aiming for PS, he probably has no limits doesn't know any better.

Fixed that for you!