Scent ability

[WarKitty]

So I need to work on the scent ability a bit. The RAW is fairly brief. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent I have a PC werewolf, hence the issues. I would like to try to turn this into something she can roll for, just like a spot or listen check.

Here's my ideas:
(1) Most areas are in fact full of smells. In addition, intelligent creatures may know enough to attempt to disguise their smell. There might even be a spell to disguise scents.
(2) Strong odors should make it much harder to pick out a smell.
(3) Some creatures should have more scent than others. Obviously incorporeal creatures have no scent. Elementals have a scent that is the same as their element. Coldblooded creatures have less scent than warmblooded ones.
(4) Picking out a scent is harder than just recognizing it. And of course you can't pick out a scent you've never smelled before.

Any ideas about how to make this work mechanically? Use the survival skill? Add a new skill? I don't want to deny my player her ability but I want to bring it into balance a bit more. We're at level 8, it seems silly to me that a high-level opponent doesn't have any way to disguise themselves from smell.

[gallagher]

So I need to work on the scent ability a bit. The RAW is fairly brief. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent I have a PC werewolf, hence the issues. I would like to try to turn this into something she can roll for, just like a spot or listen check.

Here's my ideas:
(1) Most areas are in fact full of smells. In addition, intelligent creatures may know enough to attempt to disguise their smell. There might even be a spell to disguise scents.
(2) Strong odors should make it much harder to pick out a smell.
(3) Some creatures should have more scent than others. Obviously incorporeal creatures have no scent. Elementals have a scent that is the same as their element. Coldblooded creatures have less scent than warmblooded ones.
(4) Picking out a scent is harder than just recognizing it. And of course you can't pick out a scent you've never smelled before.

Any ideas about how to make this work mechanically? Use the survival skill? Add a new skill? I don't want to deny my player her ability but I want to bring it into balance a bit more. We're at level 8, it seems silly to me that a high-level opponent doesn't have any way to disguise themselves from smell.
i would just make it a survival check, and if it is CC for you, i would give it to you from the scent ability.

or make it work like belkar and have an odd realization based on smell every now and then

[WarKitty]

i would just make it a survival check, and if it is CC for you, i would give it to you from the scent ability.

or make it work like belkar and have an odd realization based on smell every now and then

I think the biggest problem is making it defeatable. If I have the party facing an 11th level caster, I really think the caster ought to be able to defeat scent.

[unre9istered]

Polymorph or even alter self would do it. You don't smell like you any more you smell like whatever you are shaped like.

I thought I saw an alchemical item somewhere to defeat scent...
Found some:
Cat Stink from CA. Only makes it difficult for tracking though not detecting.
Scorcher Fumes (poison) for Arms and Equipment Guide. Affected target loses scent for a while.
Scentbreaker from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Similar to Scorcher Fumes but grenade-like and the secondary damage is to lose scent for an hour.

Not Alchemical but Trackless Boots from Drow of the Underdark block detection via scent.

That's all I could find.

[DaTedinator]

So that's your only problem? Him being able to detect things within 60 feet (if he's lucky)? Because scent, while nice, isn't anything especially amazing.

Just like there's a second level spell to avoid being seen, and another second level spell to avoid being heard, have there be second level spells to avoid being detected by the other senses too. I'd probably do all three (smelt, felt, and... tasted) as a second level, or individually as a first; just beware your players getting their hands on those.

[Scipio]

Scent is a nice ability, but I don't believe it is overpowered. The only way to pinpoint a creature using scent is if you are within 5' of it. An 11th level caster should be able to engage the party outside of the 30' radius of the ability (not counting wind).

Pass without Trace defeats scent. Even if it is not on the class list of the caster, you can get it through other means.

[Seffbasilisk]

A one level dip in Warlock defeats scent with Entropic Warding.

[awa]

I believe pass with out trace only protects you from being tracked by scent.
If you were a human who poly morphed into a elf you would smell like an elf covered in human sweat as would any gear.

I believe by the rules strong odors make it impossible to use scent but if your forcing the charecter to make skill checks then they should be able to detect through it although with some difficulty.

Personally i would be wary of nerfing the ability it's already not that good.
I would suggest if you make it more like a skill check you give it something to make up for it such as greater range at a higher difficulty

[Scipio]

I believe pass with out trace only protects you from being tracked by scent.


The description indicates that you never leave a scent. It does not tie that directly to tracking.

Pass Without Trace

The subject or subjects can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking the subjects is impossible by nonmagical means.

[Zeta Kai]

1) Make a new skill, just for him, & give the PC a +2d4 racial bonus to that skill, +1 extra skill point per level, to spend on Scent (or not; an extra skill point won't break your game). This skill should be Wisdom-based, like other perception skills.

2) For every creature, assign a Scent DC. Low number = strong smell; High number = weak smell. For example (these numbers are off the top of my head):


{table=head]Creature|Scent DC
Zombie|0
Ogre/Bugbear/Orc|5
Gnoll/Goblinoid/Werewolf|10
Human/Halfling/Dwarf|15
Elf/Elemental/Vampire|20
Fey|30
Construct/Skeleton|40
Incorporeal Undead|50
[/table]

3) A Scent check is made whenever a creature comes within 60'. Any creature that comes within 30' of the PC has its DC drop by -5; & any creature that comes within 10' of the PC has its DC drop by -10. An upwind creature gain a +5 circumstance bonus to its DC, while a downwind creature gain a -5 circumstance penalty to its DC. Bathing will increase a creature's DC by +5 for 1d6+4 hours.

4) Scent can be thrown off by spells of the Illusion school & the Polymorph sub-school.

[Fax Celestis]

2) For every creature, assign a Scent DC. Low number = strong smell; High number = weak smell. For example (these numbers are off the top of my head):


{table=head]Creature|Scent DC
Zombie|0
Ogre/Bugbear/Orc|5
Gnoll/Goblinoid/Werewolf|10
Human/Halfling/Dwarf|15
Elf/Elemental/Vampire|20
Fey|30
Construct/Skeleton|40
Incorporeal Undead|50
[/table]

"Certain creatures give off stronger odors than normal, such as a troglodyte or ghoul. Creatures who give off strong scents suffer a -10 penalty to their scent detection DC."

[WarKitty]

I believe pass with out trace only protects you from being tracked by scent.
If you were a human who poly morphed into a elf you would smell like an elf covered in human sweat as would any gear.

I believe by the rules strong odors make it impossible to use scent but if your forcing the charecter to make skill checks then they should be able to detect through it although with some difficulty.

Personally i would be wary of nerfing the ability it's already not that good.
I would suggest if you make it more like a skill check you give it something to make up for it such as greater range at a higher difficulty

She's been using it to great effect, especially considering that she has a non-LA version of the werewolf. Particularly to negate any sort of invisibility or hide check.

[Greenish]

The description indicates that you never leave a scent. It does not tie that directly to tracking."You leave no scent" is not the same thing as "you have no scent".

She's been using it to great effect, especially considering that she has a non-LA version of the werewolf. Particularly to negate any sort of invisibility or hide check.Hiders can use Darkstalker from LoM. For invisible enemies, well, do they have to hang next to the werewolf? You can only detect them from 15' upwind, and only pinpoint at 5'.

Besides, noting even the direction of the smell is a move action. Use action economy against the wolfie a few times. Once bitten, twice shy.

[WarKitty]

Hiders can use Darkstalker from LoM. For invisible enemies, well, do they have to hang next to the werewolf? You can only detect them from 15' upwind, and only pinpoint at 5'.

Besides, noting even the direction of the smell is a move action. Use action economy against the wolfie a few times. Once bitten, twice shy.

Depends on the enemy. They don't always actually notice the wolf, she's our party rogue with max hide/move silently. And several of them are melee, either actually invisible or simply hiding, so they do have to be next to her.

[tyckspoon]

Depends on the enemy. They don't always actually notice the wolf, she's our party rogue with max hide/move silently. And several of them are melee, either actually invisible or simply hiding, so they do have to be next to her.

Don't forget that 'pinpointing' and 'seeing the enemy' are different things. Scent does not negate invisibility or a good hide check; it simply lets you know which square the enemy is standing in. They're still invisible to your PC, so if they're about to attack her she still loses her Dex against the attack, the attacker still gets +2 for attacking from invisibility, and they still have total concealment, so even when she knows where to strike there's a 50% miss chance and she can't claim Sneak Attack damage. Forgetting those differences often makes abilities like Scent and Blindsense seem a lot more powerful than they are.

[WarKitty]

Don't forget that 'pinpointing' and 'seeing the enemy' are different things. Scent does not negate invisibility or a good hide check; it simply lets you know which square the enemy is standing in. They're still invisible to your PC, so if they're about to attack her she still loses her Dex against the attack, the attacker still gets +2 for attacking from invisibility, and they still have total concealment, so even when she knows where to strike there's a 50% miss chance and she can't claim Sneak Attack damage. Forgetting those differences often makes abilities like Scent and Blindsense seem a lot more powerful than they are.

One word: glitterdust

[awa]

you need to be with in 5ft to know what square their in so that certainly makes it harder and they still have a 50% miss chance.