Stupid Lightsaber Variants

[grarrrg]

I'm sure we've all heard the discussions about how the double-end-lightsaber (a la Darth Maul) is likely more dangerous to the user than it is to the opponent. And I agree.

Then I came across this:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/3921151135_73c0bef919.jpg

Who in the HECK thought this was a good idea?

First off: As I understand it, a tonfa is a "spinning" type of weapon, pivoting at the hand grips. This in and of itself is fine, but making one end a lightsaber, which cuts though (darn near) EVERYTHING with little/no effort?

Second: There is no type of guard that would prevent an accidental amputation from the spinning necessary to use the weapon.

Third: The Lightonfas pictured have the "heavy" end of the weapon OPPOSITE the blades, and note that the actual "blade" has no weight whatsoever. This means just about any offensive strike you try to make will result in; A: Opponent having to deal with a stubby metal cylinder, and B: The lightsaber coming right around at the wielders torso.

Can we please put a stop to people making stupid lightsaber variants? About the only thing more stupid than Lightonfas I can think of would be Lightchucks (which may actually be SAFER than the tonfa variant)

[Zocelot]

I agree that from a practical standpoint this is an absolutely terrible idea. However, in the words of a wise Jedi master "Do not let what is practical stop you from doing what is awesome".

[Lord Raziere]

actually there ARE lightsaber-nunchucks, I read about them somewhere on wikipedia.

heck there is even a lightsaber, where they have a second blade, coming out not at the opposite end of the saber, but instead the second blade come out at the same end- but 45 degrees outward so that you are literally wielding this lightsaber with a normal blade point straight up, with another blade pointing 45 degrees forward.

I'm not kidding.

edit: there is also a lightwhip, oh and lightspears in the force unleashed.

[Spiryt]

I'm pretty sure that you don't even wield damn tonfa like, that (could be wrong though). :smalltongue:

Looks like suicide squad member.

[Dvil]

I dunno, if the wielder had a set of cortosis-alloy armour (a la Jedi Academy), then maybe. But certainly not in what she's wearing, which I imagine provides less protection than a chainmail bikini.

Alternatively, this could be why the jedi are the best of the best. AFAIK, they have to make their own lightsabres, so if someone decides to make that, then I guess they just demonstrate natural selection quite aptly.

[grarrrg]

The "Lightspear" I can understand, it would just have a long handle (I hope...)
That and there have been "double/triple" length blades on normal sabers which would presumably serve the same purpose, albiet with a lack of leverage.

And the "Lightwhip" as I heard/read isn't a "Lightsaber" proper, just a highly energized lightsaber resistant... something (Iron Man 2 > Whiplash anyone?). That and a normal whip isn't something you would normally hit yourself with anyway (if you're properly trained that is)

[Flickerdart]

Orc quadruple lightsaber?

[Jibar]

I'm sure we've all heard the discussions about how the double-end-lightsaber (a la Darth Maul) is likely more dangerous to the user than it is to the opponent. And I agree.

Then I came across this:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/3921151135_73c0bef919.jpg

Who in the HECK thought this was a good idea?

First off: As I understand it, a tonfa is a "spinning" type of weapon, pivoting at the hand grips. This in and of itself is fine, but making one end a lightsaber, which cuts though (darn near) EVERYTHING with little/no effort?

Second: There is no type of guard that would prevent an accidental amputation from the spinning necessary to use the weapon.

Third: The Lightonfas pictured have the "heavy" end of the weapon OPPOSITE the blades, and note that the actual "blade" has no weight whatsoever. This means just about any offensive strike you try to make will result in; A: Opponent having to deal with a stubby metal cylinder, and B: The lightsaber coming right around at the wielders torso.

Can we please put a stop to people making stupid lightsaber variants? About the only thing more stupid than Lightonfas I can think of would be Lightchucks (which may actually be SAFER than the tonfa variant)

Okay, this is a bad example to use because the picture you used is completely wrong.
That's Maris Brood, Shaak Ti's one time apprentice before her death who ended up being corrupted by Felucia, as featured in The Force Unleashed. The toy however has her lightsabers entirely wrong.
This is Maris Brood's real lightonfa. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:MarisBrood_bg.jpg)
Well, sort of. This is just promotional artwork, in game their model does in fact resemble real tonfa more, with different length ends to the weapon and the blade emanating from the heavy end of the device which she holds with the blades end approximately alongside her elbows.
So in this manner, first off, with a horizontal hand grip she is now capable of pulling off complex spins to her blows which can disorient opponents and throw them off their guard allowing her to slip through with unexpected attacks.
Secondly, as a Jedi gifted with the Force, she needs no such protection. You can note no Lightsaber has a cross-guard attached to the hilt separating the blade from the main device. Jedi are simply so aware thanks to the Force they would never accidentally cut themselves with the weapon.
Thirdly, Lightsaberchucks do sort of exist, wielded by Asajj Ventrass in the downloadable content for Battlefront II on the original XBox. This is largely non-canon as far as I am aware, but in principal it is sound. Two lightsabers attached to one another by a chain is unprecedented and would immediately throw off many Jedi who face such a style. Someone as skilled as Asajj was as well, means she essentially becomes a whirling engine of death. During the Clone Wars many had to adapt to a sudden change in combat as large scale conflict became increasingly common. Styles such as Ataru and Nimian fell out of favour for styles such as Shien or Soresu as battle became the Jedi's life, so something as lethal as Lightsaberchucks was not only expected but necessary to survive, especially as long as Asajj did.

[Kobold-Bard]

I like the idea of Exar-Kun's double lightsaer; shorter blades and (I believe) was wielded 1 handed.

How about gauntlets that have little lightsabers across the knuckles?

[Keld Denar]

Someone should tell that nice girl that her underwear is showing.

Sorry, thats the only thing I find wrong with that image.

[arguskos]

I like the idea of Exar-Kun's double lightsaer; shorter blades and (I believe) was wielded 1 handed.
Exar Kun's weapon was wielded in two hands, or so I recall, but that's because it featured a HILARIOUS intensity dial on both blades, so he could dial the intensity of the beam down suddenly to psych out opponents.

[T-O-E]

lightwhip

I invented that independently, and I thought it was pretty cool.

(I was 10 at the time)

Also Darth Maul's double lightsaber.

[Crimmy]

The only thing I find "stupid" as a lightsaber variant is either a boomerang, a shuriken/ninja star or a bow n' arrow. Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with it.

[CrimsonAngel]

Lightsaber arrows? Cool!

[Mando Knight]

Lightsaber arrows? Cool!

Uryu prefers the name "Seele Schneider (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Seele_Schneider)," thankyouverymuch.

[TheThan]

Corran Horn ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corran_Horn) built a dual phase ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dual-phase_lightsaber) lightsaber (out of a crashed speeder bike throttle), the idea behind it is that you can hit a switch and double the length of the blade. However after considerable use, Corran came to the realization that its not much more than a novelty. The extra length is too cumbersome to use effectively, you end up digging it into the ground and such.

[Emperor Ing]

I think I recall reading about a fork-saber some jedi dude used during the clone wars on Wookiepedia. Apparently (at least how I pictured it) it's a Y-shaped hilt that has two lightsaber blades coming out of t.

[TheThan]

Hey I found a list of them on wookiepedia. check it ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber)

[Dr.Epic]

The lightsaber becomes a stupid weapon when used by most series other than human. Look at Kit Fisto, that squid headed alien from the prequel films. When you have swinging tentacles on your head, do you really want to use a lightsaber?

[Runestar]

Hey, it worked for Psyga in Kamen Rider Fiaz: Paradise Lost, though admitably, he lost in the end. :smalltongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eRxE-y9Gw8

Check out from 4:10 onwards.

[Crispy Dave]

Lightsaber nun-chucks. It can't possibly go wrong.

[druid91]

What I always wondered was, why someone didn't make a gun that shoots out lightsabers?

[Maximum Zersk]

What I always wondered was, why someone didn't make a gun that shoots out lightsabers?

A laser gun, you mean?

[Lord Raziere]

A laser gun, you mean?

No as in, a gun that shoots little bullets with lightsaber tips.

[druid91]

A laser gun, you mean?


No as in, a gun that shoots little bullets with lightsaber tips.

Yes, that. Blasters got deflected by stuff, but lightsabers didn't so obviously the lightsaber isn't as unstable, so sniper rifle with burrowing lightsaber bullets.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I would rather have a lightsaber that shoots you with a gun instead of cutting you.

It'd be awesome?

[Crimmy]

Yes, that. Blasters got deflected by stuff, but lightsabers didn't so obviously the lightsaber isn't as unstable, so sniper rifle with burrowing lightsaber bullets.

Read this as:
Blaster gun.
Sniper blaster gun.

[The Dark Fiddler]

When I was young, I once imagined a lightsaber knight, complete with lightsaber fullplate and lightsaber shield.

[Maximum Zersk]

When I was young, I once imagined a lightsaber knight, complete with lightsaber fullplate and lightsaber shield.

The wonder of being young. Silly things like "Logic" and "Scientific Fact" don't get in the way of your fun.

[Moff Chumley]

Um, lightsaber armor is impractical but lightsabers themselves are A-Okay? :smallconfused:

[Maximum Zersk]

Um, lightsaber armor is impractical but lightsabers themselves are A-Okay? :smallconfused:

No, but it makes more sense.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Um, lightsaber armor is impractical but lightsabers themselves are A-Okay? :smallconfused:

Well, I imagine holding your sword would be a bit difficult, and touching anything would be a problem... and I'm pretty sure falling through the planet's crust to the core would be a bit impractical too.

But hey, at least nobody else can kill you! :smalltongue:

[Pyrian]

...Or you could just a get a force field. :smalltongue:

[absolmorph]

Rocket-propelled lightsabers, perhaps?

[Prime32]

Rocket-propelled lightsabers, perhaps?They already have telekinesis.

[arguskos]

They already have telekinesis.
But rockets are so much more awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[Maximum Zersk]

But rockets are so much more awesome! :smallbiggrin:

Well, then, if we're going by awesomeness...

Paint them red (Cuz red makes them go fastah), Make them shoot even more missiles, add a hundred rockets, make it a nuclear weapon, shoot it out of the most powerful cannon in the world, make them make that high-pitched noise, and emblazon them with Kamina's glasses.

[Rawhide]

Well, then, if we're going by awesomeness...

Paint them red (Cuz red makes them go fastah), Make them shoot even more missiles, add a hundred rockets, make it a nuclear weapon, shoot it out of the most powerful cannon in the world, make them make that high-pitched noise, and emblazon them with Kamina's glasses.

Needs more cowbell.

[Crimmy]

Well, then, if we're going by awesomeness...

Paint them red (Cuz red makes them go fastah), Make them shoot even more missiles, add a hundred rockets, make it a nuclear weapon, shoot it out of the most powerful cannon in the world, make them make that high-pitched noise, and emblazon them with Kamina's glasses.

Now that's just plain silly.

[absolmorph]

They already have telekinesis.
Rockets don't require focus.
Also, new idea: lightsaber missile that shoots smaller lightsaber rockets that explode into lightcaltrops.
They would be fired en mass. It's a Macross Missile Massacre that Macross Missile Massacres and then explodes into a ton of shrapnel.

[Rawhide]

Rockets don't require focus.
Also, new idea: lightsaber missile that shoots smaller lightsaber rockets that explode into lightcaltrops.
They would be fired en mass. It's a Macross Missile Massacre that Macross Missile Massacres and then explodes into a ton of shrapnel.

Now you're cranking it up to eleven.

[Occasional Sage]

You know that we're now one step closer to real lightsabers, and that they're available for a reasonable price tag (http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html), right?

[Moff Chumley]

Rockets don't require focus.
Also, new idea: lightsaber missile that shoots smaller lightsaber rockets that explode into lightcaltrops.
They would be fired en mass. It's a Macross Missile Massacre that Macross Missile Massacres and then explodes into a ton of shrapnel.

Sig'd?


Needs more cowbell.

Now you're cranking it up to eleven.

Rawhide=BEST. ADMIN. EVAR. Yah, I said it, Roland. Watchu gonna do, ya big softie?

[absolmorph]

Sig'd?




Rawhide=BEST. ADMIN. EVAR. Yah, I said it, Roland. Watchu gonna do, ya big softie?
Be my guest.

And Roland still takes the cake with the mind control. Rawhide is awesome, though.

[Moff Chumley]

*points at signature*

Ooh, I suppose I'mma have to get rid of the Latin quote...

[Mando Knight]

explodes into a ton of shrapnel.
Not just any shrapnel, sword-shaped shrapnel.

[Partof1]

My brother and I once played around with imaginary lightsaber gloves. It seemed okay, then I managed to wound him, so he grabbed his wound, which is an efficient amputation.

It would be an entertaining boxing match.

[Maximum Zersk]

Not just any shrapnel, sword-shaped shrapnel.

Made of Spiral Energy, shooting rabid robot ninja zombie pikachus with katanas shaped like a sorcerer Abraham Lincoln that takes off his hat to show him nesting a mexican orphan with a jetpack riding a velociraptor throwing shurikens that sing Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" while at the same time exploding into a million tiny demon hamsters.

That are reciting the Illiad.

While shooting ramen cannons.

On pogostcks.

In a volcano.

Made of beer.

On the moon.

Made of acid cheese.

With the face of Christopher Walken engraved in it. (Happy, Rawhide? :smallbiggrin:)

[Heatwizard]

Yes, that. Blasters got deflected by stuff, but lightsabers didn't so obviously the lightsaber isn't as unstable, so sniper rifle with burrowing lightsaber bullets.

What do you mean? Lightsabers got deflected by other lightsabers all the time.

[grarrrg]

Made of Spiral Energy, shooting rabid robot ninja zombie pikachus with katanas shaped like a sorcerer Abraham Lincoln that takes off his hat to show him nesting a mexican orphan with a jetpack riding a velociraptor throwing shurikens that sing Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" while at the same time exploding into a million tiny demon hamsters.

That are reciting the Illiad.

While shooting ramen cannons.

On pogostcks.

In a volcano.

Made of beer.

On the moon.

Made of acid cheese.

With the face of Christopher Walken engraved in it. (Happy, Rawhide? )

Needs more cowbell.

[Moff Chumley]

Come on, man, this is basic, basic stuff. :smalltongue:

[Lord Raziere]

Made of Spiral Energy, shooting rabid robot ninja zombie pikachus with katanas shaped like a sorcerer Abraham Lincoln that takes off his hat to show him nesting a mexican orphan with a jetpack riding a velociraptor throwing shurikens that sing Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" while at the same time exploding into a million tiny demon hamsters.

That are reciting the Illiad.

While shooting ramen cannons.

On pogostcks.

In a volcano.

Made of beer.

On the moon.

Made of acid cheese.

With the face of Christopher Walken engraved in it. (Happy, Rawhide? :smallbiggrin:)

......you know what I find hilarious about the internet? I can suggest something perfectly reasonable, possibly innovative and sensible in comparison to lightsabers.....

and a page later, we end up with this nonsense. Its like....
Anti-Science. instead of progressing forward towards more refined efficient ideas we go backwards into chaos as people impulsively parody awesomeness to the point of staleness and antiquity. :smallconfused:

[Pyrian]

...parody awesomeness...I hate to be the one to break this to you, but what they are parodying is not awesomeness. That's kind of the point.

[Lord Raziere]

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but what they are parodying is not awesomeness. That's kind of the point.

Exactly my point.

[absolmorph]

Not just any shrapnel, sword-shaped shrapnel.
Caltrops made of laser swords, actually.

And, they may need to have cowbells.

[Xzeno]

You know that we're now one step closer to real lightsabers, and that they're available for a reasonable price tag (http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html), right?

I was so disappointed to find out it was just a laser. Like, so very disappointed. For a moment there, a very brief moment, I thought we were soon to have lightsabers, like in those Starwars movies with which I fell in love.*

As for the topic of lightsaber variants and not the Internet being silly, I don't know enough about tonfa fighting to say Ms. Brood's lightsabers are not a good, but I am pretty sure it is so, and am pretty sure she'd be a lot better off with a pair of regular lightsabers. That reminds me, shouldn't Jedi duel-wield? Why don't they? Too expensive?

Also, why no light-knives? Lightsabers do negate many of the benefits of knives (small and concealable), but come on, lightwhips. We're clearly not being practical at this point, so why not knives? At least they have some realistic application. Here's my idea: a lightflail. It would be downright silly, but come on: A lightflail.

*The Starwars movies I am referring to are, of course, of the awesome trilogy: The prequel trilogy. The original movies were very good movies in their own right, but they failed to enchant me the way these prequels did. Someone had to like them, right?

[Gaelbert]

Exar Kun's weapon was wielded in two hands, or so I recall, but that's because it featured a HILARIOUS intensity dial on both blades, so he could dial the intensity of the beam down suddenly to psych out opponents.


Now you're cranking it up to eleven.

Anyone else see the potential for awesome?

[Kobold-Bard]

Didn't the Gungans already use something that was effectively Lightsaber shields in Episode 1?

[paddyfool]

The only truly sensible lightsabre I've seen is the variant in the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie:


It makes toast!


Lightsabres aren't about being sensible, however.

(The most combat-useful would probably be the old lightsabre clone in the Ulysses animated series that did double-duty as a blaster).

[Killer Angel]

Jedi are simply so aware thanks to the Force they would never accidentally cut themselves with the weapon.


So, in the end, it's a variant of "it's magic"?
...yyyes, I can live with it. :smallwink:

On a side note, if we were looking for a cool weapon, i would like to see a friggin' battleaxe lightsaber... :smallcool:

[Jibar]

So, in the end, it's a variant of "it's magic"?
...yyyes, I can live with it. :smallwink:

Mystical everpresent 'Force' that allows one to manipulate their environment and shoot lightning out their hands.
If it ain't magic what is it.

[Killer Angel]

Mystical everpresent 'Force' that allows one to manipulate their environment and shoot lightning out their hands.
If it ain't magic what is it.

Uh? wasn'it science? you know, Midi-chlorians and all that jazz...

(run for cover :smalltongue:)

[absolmorph]

So, in the end, it's a variant of "it's magic"?
...yyyes, I can live with it. :smallwink:

On a side note, if we were looking for a cool weapon, i would like to see a friggin' battleaxe lightsaber... :smallcool:
That would be a "lightaxe".
And, personally, I'd prefer a chainaxe. Or a battle hammer with a drill built into one half of the head.
Halt!
... HAMMERZEIT! -drill'd-

[hamishspence]

On lightsaber armour- armour with a lightsaber-eque principle (you cannot harm yourself, since if you hit yourself, the blow would bounce off just as it would when lightsaber hits lightsaber) might be pretty interesting.

A character who can do with a single blow of the hand or foot, what other Jedi do with lightsabers, would be scary.

It would need to stop at the soles, heels, and toes of the feet (since you don't want to sink into the floor when walking)

And so, it would have an Achilles Heel in the most literal sense :smallbiggrin:

This character:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Irek_Ismaren

appears to have armour with built-in lightsabers, rather than lightsaber armour- along the arms and knees.

[KuReshtin]

This character:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Irek_Ismaren

appears to have armour with built-in lightsabers, rather than lightsaber armour- along the arms and knees.

I woldn't want a knee to the crotch from that guy.

of course, I wouldn't want a knee to the crotch from anyone, but ESPECIALLY not from him.

[Bouregard]

I always wanted such a small lightsaber like they used in Futurama, you could cut bread with it and toast it at the same time. Yes, you may not conquer the galaxy with it... but fresh toast each morning is definitly something good.

[pendell]

Actually, a shield that could deflect a light saber might actually be a useful thing. How hard would it be to convert a light saber -- or several light sabers -- such that it generates a light field as big as a target shield. You could use elementary sword 'n board tactics, with the additional bonus that a shield bash will instakill an opponent.

Of course, IMO the best answer to a lightsaber is a grenade. See how many bazillions of fragments a Jedi can block without being turned into swiss cheese.

What's that? Jedi sense it coming and runs out of the blast radius? Then you need a bigger grenade, or more of them, or both.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Liffguard]

Of course, IMO the best answer to a lightsaber is a grenade. See how many bazillions of fragments a Jedi can block without being turned into swiss cheese.

What's that? Jedi sense it coming and runs out of the blast radius? Then you need a bigger grenade, or more of them, or both.

I'd be more worried about them hurling it back at you with telekinesis.

[Emperor Ing]

I'd be more worried about them hurling it back at you with telekinesis.

This

However I personally believe that the best weapon against Jedi would either be the Star Wars equivalent of a rocket launcher, a Beam weapon, or a gun that fires faster than the jedi can deflect.

[Kobold-Bard]

This

However I personally believe that the best weapon against Jedi would either be the Star Wars equivalent of a rocket launcher, a Beam weapon, or a gun that fires faster than the jedi can deflect.

Nothing is faster than a Jedi except another Jedi <wilfully ignores examples that will follow proving me wrong>

[pendell]

I'd be more worried about them hurling it back at you with telekinesis.

So have multiple people throw them by the dozens. How many can he pick up and throw back, all at once?

What? If you're going to kill Jedi you've got to expect casualties. That's why the clones were brought into existence, right?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Zevox]

So have multiple people throw them by the dozens. How many can he pick up and throw back, all at once?
Yeah, he might not be able to toss them back precisely, but you can be sure that a general force push wave will keep him safe while probably resulting in the deaths of most of the idiots trying to do that to him.

The best way to take a Jedi down is multiple people with blaster rifles firing from multiple angles simultaneously. Can't deflect it so well if there's bolts zipping at them from both the front and back at the same instant, much less the sides as well.

Zevox

[Kobold-Bard]

Yeah, he might not be able to toss them back precisely, but you can be sure that a general force push wave will keep him safe while probably resulting in the deaths of most of the idiots trying to do that to him.

The best way to take a Jedi down is multiple people with blaster rifles firing from multiple angles simultaneously. Can't deflect it so well if there's bolts zipping at them from both the front and back at the same instant, much less the sides as well.

Zevox

That's why you multi-wield. Hell the spinny lightonfas might work quite well for this.

[KnightDisciple]

On the question of "why don't all Jedi dual-wield", I think that's like asking "why doesn't every master swordsman in history dual-wield".

"Because not everyone has the skill for it" is one answer. Someone could be an excellent Jedi, a great swordsman even, and still not have quite the level of raw ability and skill to use two lightsabers.

"Because it doesn't feel right" is another reason. There are multiple forms of lightsaber combat for a reason: different people have different strengths. What feels natural for one Jedi might feel horribly artificial for another. And when much of their ability comes from "going with the flow" of the Force, "feeling natural" is a vital part of their fighting skill.

Just look at Obi-Wan and Anakin during the War; they used radically different styles, but were both excellent. Working together made them utterly deadly; frankly, I think even Yoda, Mace, and Palpatine would have had major trouble with a unified fighting force of those two.

In other words, dual-wielding is not the be-all, end-all of lightsaber fighting.

[Keld Denar]

Nothing is faster than a Jedi except another Jedi <wilfully ignores examples that will follow proving me wrong>

So, what you are saying is that you need a jedi, WIELDING a jedi, wielding a lightsabre?

I mean, it stands to reason that if a jedi is fighting at speed X, then any jedi wielded BY that jedi who is also fighting at speed X, would, relative to a stationary point, be fighting at speed X^2. Right?

Make it happen!

[Pyrian]

Of course, IMO the best answer to a lightsaber is a grenade.I was thinking a shotgun. Extra points if you say "deflect this".

[AstralFire]

This

However I personally believe that the best weapon against Jedi would either be the Star Wars equivalent of a rocket launcher, a Beam weapon, or a gun that fires faster than the jedi can deflect.

Rockets can be blocked with telekinesis. Beam weapons can be absorbed. The deflection is based on anticipating the user's movements, not speed.

Best ranged weapons against a Jedi are sonic weapons, followed by disruptor beams, followed by bullets.

[ericgrau]

A spray of bullets to be precise.

I'd like to see the trend continue until there's a four armed Jedi cyborg quad wielding double chained lightsaber chucks (that's 12 "chucks", including the 4 being held, for anyone who lost count). Using the force to survive obviously suicidal weapons is all well and good as an excuse on the surface, but what do you do when your opponent starts deflecting your blades into your arms which are only a quarter inch away from them? I think as long as they're making crazy light saber weapons the more practical weapon would be the lightsaber boot knife. With all the successful kicking in episodes 1-3 any fight would be over in roughly 20 seconds with such a knife. Of course both combatants soon get one and they start fencing with their feet as well.

[Xzeno]

Rockets can be blocked with telekinesis. Beam weapons can be absorbed.

Yes, rockets are deflected with the force. The only way they work is if you fire a rocket at a Jedi's feet. At least that works in Star Wars Battlefront.


On the question of "why don't all Jedi dual-wield", I think that's like asking "why doesn't every master swordsman in history dual-wield".

Yeah, for real: What's up with that?

The "not skilled enough" thing seems like a contradiction of terms: With practice, enough skill can be gained. If one is a great swordsmen with one sword, duel-wielding can and should be taught. It would seem to me that the Jedi order would want to train Jedi to duel-wield, as duel-wielding is superior (or at least it is according to all I've ever been taught) to single-wielding, especially with a lightsaber (I'm speculating here - my martial arts education is, unfortunately, lacking in a duel-lightsaber form).

Not feeling right: Excellent reason. I really can't argue with that. If you're a force user and your feelings say: "One lightsaber, kid-o", you stick with one lightsaber. On that note, it may also be easier to cast spells with a free hand.

In other words, I think duel-wielding regular lightsabers is the superior style, and all Jedi who do duel-wield have a natural advantage, but I understand why many don't.

[AstralFire]

Dual-wielding with a short lightsaber is the superior method of lightsaber dueling melee combat, much like real life fencing - Luke specifically switches to it to take on a Lightwhip master. There's an implication that it's of minimal benefit at best for ranged or mixed combatants, though, since it's a style specialized for close combat.

[Zen Monkey]

In a setting with both swords and guns, it's interesting that you don't see examples of people using both (maybe in the books?). Military history definitely shows examples of the pistol and saber combination. It seems like the advantages of pairing melee and ranged would be fairly obvious.

[Pyrian]

Maybe Games Workshop trademarked it, what with all their bolt pistol and chainsword wielding maniacs.

[KnightDisciple]

Yeah, the more I think on it, the more I think "natural feel in the Force" and "have a hand free for Force gesturing" seem like good reasons. I'm sure lots of Jedi could dual-wield, given time. That they don't is likely a combination of peacetime lull and the above factors.

I think AF is right; as cool as two-full size lightsabers is, I'd bet a regular saber and a lightknife would be better in many ways.

Really though, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu used only one blade most often. Clearly there's some basis there.:smallamused:

[2xMachina]

Actually, a shield that could deflect a light saber might actually be a useful thing. How hard would it be to convert a light saber -- or several light sabers -- such that it generates a light field as big as a target shield. You could use elementary sword 'n board tactics, with the additional bonus that a shield bash will instakill an opponent.

Of course, IMO the best answer to a lightsaber is a grenade. See how many bazillions of fragments a Jedi can block without being turned into swiss cheese.

What's that? Jedi sense it coming and runs out of the blast radius? Then you need a bigger grenade, or more of them, or both.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lightsaber Grenades! Flash of pure light!

Also, Lightsaber Cyborg. (100% light saber outside, core inside.)

I think, 1 disadvantage of dual wielding is that you lack force behind the hits. Easier to deflect.

[Weezer]

This

However I personally believe that the best weapon against Jedi would either be the Star Wars equivalent of a rocket launcher, a Beam weapon, or a gun that fires faster than the jedi can deflect.

Well in one of the Legacy of the Force books Jacen Solo is attacked by a squad of Correlian soldiers armed with and specially trained to use rapid fire blasters that shot fast enough that he couldn't block them all, so someone has thought of this. Of course his solution was to pull the entire corridor down on them so it wasn't quite foolproof. Also the blasters would overheat/run out of charge very quickly so weren't suitable for extended combat (not like any combat with Jedi is prolonged.)

[absolmorph]

The use of a single sword, historically, has more to do with the fact that dual-wielding is horribly inconvenient and leaves you relatively undefended. Additionally, two-handed swords were actually faster than one-handed - and they could still use a shield just fine. You could apply more force to a swing with a two-hander, and more force means more speed.
Really, dual-wielding is just flashy.

[Partof1]

Dual wielding is more practical with lightsabers than real life due to the blades being only as heavy as the hilts. In real life, you don't have the control of the heavy blade using only one hand for slashing.

Even with a weightless blade, if you go up against another swordsperson with one blade to your two, they'll probably have the strength advantage.

[absolmorph]

Dual wielding is more practical with lightsabers than real life due to the blades being only as heavy as the hilts. In real life, you don't have the control of the heavy blade using only one hand for slashing.

Even with a weightless blade, if you go up against another swordsperson with one blade to your two, they'll probably have the strength advantage.
There's still the problem of avoiding hitting yourself with the blades.
I mean, dual-wielding looks awesome, and I'll probably try it one day (IRL), but it's not something I'd want to do in actual combat.


Now you're cranking it up to eleven.
I think this belongs in my signature.

[Knaight]

Dual wielding is more practical with lightsabers than real life due to the blades being only as heavy as the hilts. In real life, you don't have the control of the heavy blade using only one hand for slashing.

Even with a weightless blade, if you go up against another swordsperson with one blade to your two, they'll probably have the strength advantage.

So you want speed, and the other guy not to have leverage. Which suggests slightly shorter weapons, or something like a parrying dagger. Both of which show up in real life, with parrying daggers being extremely successful in duels.

[Mando Knight]

Rockets can be blocked with telekinesis.Rockets are horrible against Jedi. They don't tend to block them, they play Rocket Pong with them. Which isn't great for the guy with the launcher unless he's a Force user himself. Barring that, the Jedi could also bisect the rocket with his lightsaber, usually rendering the explosives useless...
Best ranged weapons against a Jedi are sonic weapons, followed by disruptor beams, followed by bullets.
Reasoning:
1.) Sonic weapons don't behave like directed energy weapons.
2.) Disruptor weapons are weird and often somehow get around a Jedi's reflexes. And when at full charge, disintegrate their targets.
3.) I have yet to meet a Jedi who can outsmart boolit. (http://www.teamfortress.com/heavy.htm) Bullets are like blasters, except they can't be redirected, since a slug would just vaporize rather than get deflected.

[absolmorph]

Rockets are horrible against Jedi. They don't tend to block them, they play Rocket Pong with them. Which isn't great for the guy with the launcher unless he's a Force user himself. Barring that, the Jedi could also bisect the rocket with his lightsaber, usually rendering the explosives useless...
That's why I suggested lightsaber missile that shoots lightsaber rockets.

[Xzeno]

That's why I suggested lightsaber missile that shoots lightsaber rockets.

Sure sure, keep telling yourself that.

On the subject of duel-wielding being inconvenient, Miyamoto Musashi encouraged the use of two swords in the Book of Five Rings. This alone seems like a good enough reason to not discount the concept.

Also, I'd like to hear how using two swords instead of one leaves one "relatively undefended.

Personally, I think two duel-phase lightsabers is the way to roll. Then again, as KnightDisciple pointed out, Mace Windu used only one saber, so maybe he knows something I don't. Either way, I'm not about to argue with Mace Windu.

[AstralFire]

I said (my guess, but it's a pretty good one) why earlier - twfing is specialized for fighting other lightsaber wielders and requires a different fighting style. Most Jedi aren't willing to sacrifice from their all around performance to gain a slight edge in a blade to blade combat, especially since it does seem to be easier to use telekinesis with a free hand anyway.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

I would have to say regardless of the size or shape of the lightsaber including the fighting style in which it is done is never really "stupid." I would have to say that folks who have the coordination and reflexes to reflect solid pieces of light flying around the battlefield, training in those chosen weapons and styles since the time they were children, and the mental capacity to influence peoples thoughts or move entire starships around be mere extension of their will are plenty capable of using whatever variant of the lightsaber they want without cutting their own hand off. But you know...maybe that's just me.

[pendell]

How about an exploding suicide droid? Something like the recon scouts Darth Maul used in Episode one, but packed with several kilograms of high explosive and lots of metal for lots of nasty fragments. It flies directly at the Jedi, then detonates when within 10 feet. The blast radius is larger than the effective range of the light saber.

Now release about 20 of them into the city, all with very simple programming: Seek the target matching this genetic profile. Close with target. Detonate when distance between target and self is < SOME VALUE.

As droids, they are of course immune to mind control effects.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[KnightDisciple]

How about an exploding suicide droid? Something like the recon scouts Darth Maul used in Episode one, but packed with several kilograms of high explosive and lots of metal for lots of nasty fragments. It flies directly at the Jedi, then detonates when within 10 feet. The blast radius is larger than the effective range of the light saber.

Now release about 20 of them into the city, all with very simple programming: Seek the target matching this genetic profile. Close with target. Detonate when distance between target and self is < SOME VALUE.

As droids, they are of course immune to mind control effects.

Respectfully,

Brian P.But not telekinesis. Or precog.

[Tamburlaine]

The easiest way for a ranged weapon to kill jedi every time (assuming you don't miss outright) is by having a continuous beam weapon (harder to deflect right off the bat), firing three parallel beams at once in a triangular pattern so it's impossible to angle the lightsaber so that all the beams are deflected at the same time. Such a weapon would be powerfully expensive, but also powerfully... powerful.
Of course, that's just my two credits.

[grarrrg]

3.) I have yet to meet a Jedi who can outsmart boolit. Bullets are like blasters, except they can't be redirected, since a slug would just vaporize rather than get deflected.

Brings to mind the Chiss's Charric/Maser weapons.
It's basically a blaster that fires "hard" light. It has two disticnt anti-lightsaber advantages that a blaster doesn't:
1: It hits with some kinetic energy, so the lightsaber user 'feels' the hit (shakes the hilt a little).
2: It cannot be reflected, it either dissapates on the blade, or diverts it slightly.

Another decent anti-Jedi weapon is "glop grenades", picture a combination of Spider-Man webbing and the DnD Grease spell. It's typically too much matter spread out enough that the average Jedi cannot avoid/Force-Deflect it all, and whatever does gets hit becomes immobilized.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm surprised the Lightsaber Whip hasn't come up in this thread yet.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm surprised the Lightsaber Whip hasn't come up in this thread yet.

It has done.

Several times.

[Prime32]

I'm surprised the Lightsaber Whip hasn't come up in this thread yet.It has. .

[Kris Strife]

I still want to see a light saber with a blade that isn't shaped like a stretched out traffic cone. :smallannoyed:

[KnightDisciple]

I still want to see a light saber with a blade that isn't shaped like a stretched out traffic cone. :smallannoyed::smallconfused:

Wha?

[Kobold-Bard]

:smallconfused:

Wha?

Agreed. 10 Chars

[Kris Strife]

Sorry, I can't think of a better description. Its not a cylinder, but its not a cone either. :smallsigh:

[Mercenary Pen]

I'd quite like to see a Blaster rifle with Lightsaber-bayonet... especially if wielded by Kyle Katarn.

[KnightDisciple]

Sorry, I can't think of a better description. Its not a cylinder, but its not a cone either. :smallsigh:I'm...pretty sure that if they taper, it's very slight.

And if there is a taper, it's because they're, essentially, swords. European style, originally. And those taper.

It's round because, you know, they're a contained plasma blade. It doesn't need an edge.

I'm curious what you'd prefer they appear as.

Edit:
I'd quite like to see a Blaster rifle with Lightsaber-bayonet... especially if wielded by Kyle Katarn.He'd totally do it, too. Kyle's so hardcore he might put one on that Bryar Pistol of his.:smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

More sword like? I'd like to see a BFS lightsaber honestly, just for a change of pace.

[Prime32]

More sword like? I'd like to see a BFS lightsaber honestly, just for a change of pace.I'm not sure you can widen the blade, so that would be more like a bunch of lightsabers in a line, connected to one handle. It would probably be easier to go with a tuning-fork design

[Kris Strife]

Well, why is every laser emitter in the SW universe circular?

[pendell]

But not telekinesis. Or precog.

That's why you need more than one.

It seems that a Jedi Knight can reasonably defeat any single threat, given time. The trick is to A) deny them that time B) present them with so many threats simultaneously that merely human reflexes can't stop them all, precog or no precog. As Xykon says, 'there's a level of force against which no tactic can succeed'.

That's assuming that we're dealing with really good Jedi knights like Luke or Obi-wan or Anakin. But I believe those are to Jedi knights what Olympic Gold medalists are to normal athletes. IIRC the prequels, most of the Jedi went down pretty easily and were taken by surprise -- which argues against their terrific precognitive abilities.

Yes, taking Jedi by surprise is cheating. Would any sane being fight Jedi knights any other way?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[absolmorph]

That's why you need more than one.

It seems that a Jedi Knight can reasonably defeat any single threat, given time. The trick is to A) deny them that time B) present them with so many threats simultaneously that merely human reflexes can't stop them all, precog or no precog. As Xykon says, 'there's a level of force against which no tactic can succeed'.

That's assuming that we're dealing with really good Jedi knights like Luke or Obi-wan or Anakin. But I believe those are to Jedi knights what Olympic Gold medalists are to normal athletes. IIRC the prequels, most of the Jedi went down pretty easily and were taken by surprise -- which argues against their terrific precognitive abilities.

Yes, taking Jedi by surprise is cheating. Would any sane being fight Jedi knights any other way?

Respectfully,

Brian P.
With a Death Star.

[KnightDisciple]

Well, why is every laser emitter in the SW universe circular?Because that's how it is?

There's a certain point where you just have to accept "this is how it is, this is how this universe works". It's kind of the like MST3K mantra.

I know for "BFS", the closest things are the "lightclub/greatsaber", and the extended form of a dual-phase saber.

[Kris Strife]

Yeah, I saw those, got my hopes up and had them dashed. Curse you Wookieepedia!

[Moff Chumley]

So, what you are saying is that you need a jedi, WIELDING a jedi, wielding a lightsabre?

I mean, it stands to reason that if a jedi is fighting at speed X, then any jedi wielded BY that jedi who is also fighting at speed X, would, relative to a stationary point, be fighting at speed X^2. Right?

Make it happen!

I love you.

[Gadora]

That's why you need more than one.

It seems that a Jedi Knight can reasonably defeat any single threat, given time. The trick is to A) deny them that time B) present them with so many threats simultaneously that merely human reflexes can't stop them all, precog or no precog. As Xykon says, 'there's a level of force against which no tactic can succeed'.

That's assuming that we're dealing with really good Jedi knights like Luke or Obi-wan or Anakin. But I believe those are to Jedi knights what Olympic Gold medalists are to normal athletes. IIRC the prequels, most of the Jedi went down pretty easily and were taken by surprise -- which argues against their terrific precognitive abilities.

Yes, taking Jedi by surprise is cheating. Would any sane being fight Jedi knights any other way?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You fight them on your chosen ground. Your chosen ground is, of course, the forests of Myrkr (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ysalamiri).

[absolmorph]

So, what you are saying is that you need a jedi, WIELDING a jedi, wielding a lightsabre?

I mean, it stands to reason that if a jedi is fighting at speed X, then any jedi wielded BY that jedi who is also fighting at speed X, would, relative to a stationary point, be fighting at speed X^2. Right?

Make it happen!
So, (using DnD sizes) a Colossal Jedi wielding two Medium Jedi wielding two Tiny Jedi wielding two Diminutive Jedi dual-wielding Lightsabers would be the ultimate fast weapon. That's 16 attacks.

[KnightDisciple]

Yeah, I saw those, got my hopes up and had them dashed. Curse you Wookieepedia!Your hopes were "dashed" because there wasn't...what? A Buster-Sword-esque lightsaber?

Sorry, but that's not a valid complaint. Yeah, you asked "why does the emitter need to be round".

Here's a possible answer: Because that's the only shape that allows for a stable containment field for the blade. It's a matter of materials sciences and local universal field physics.

There. An explanation that's likely as good as anything Lucas could invent.

Besides, I don't think there's an advantage to that large of a sword. There is a point of diminishing returns and all that. That's why dual-phase sabers aren't used a lot. They're mostly good for the occasional surprise attack.

[Kris Strife]

My hopes were dashed because that one in particular sounded like they'd be what I was looking for, and they weren't. There was also a great deal of exaggeration in that post.

Its not like it'd be less practical than some of the other lightsaber variants out there, and its not always about practicality. When dealing with fiction, sometimes you want a weapon that should be impractical but just looks awesome.

And every single laser is round as well, not just lightsaber ones.

[KnightDisciple]

My hopes were dashed because that one in particular sounded like they'd be what I was looking for, and they weren't. There was also a great deal of exaggeration in that post.

Its not like it'd be less practical than some of the other lightsaber variants out there, and its not always about practicality. When dealing with fiction, sometimes you want a weapon that should be impractical but just looks awesome.

And every single laser is round as well, not just lightsaber ones.Well, there's "impractical" in the "compared to real-world physics" sense, and there's "impractical" in the "even in Star Wars it doesn't work well" sense.

With extra-large/long blades, the issue is that they can drag into the ground unintentionally. While they can cut through that, it still might throw off the aim a bit. More than that, it's pretentious and completely un-Jedi like. a Buster-Saber would be a Sith weapon, really.

As for the lasers, I presume you mean blasters. In which case...uh, what? Do you want square blaster bolts? It feels like you're being contentious for it's own sake now.:smallconfused:

[Kris Strife]

What would make it inherently a sith weapon? There are Jedi that dual wielded and had saberstaffs, so I doubt its the simple intimidation factor. It'd probably be more common among non human jedi, particularly very large species. It wouldn't have any additional offensive properties, but it might work fairly well at providing cover.

Not only blasters, but ship lasers as well. And not really, just something I found odd, considering how many settings have at least some energy weapons that have a square barrel, rather than a round one. There's really no need to have a round barrel for a blaster.

[absolmorph]

What would make it inherently a sith weapon? There are Jedi that dual wielded and had saberstaffs, so I doubt its the simple intimidation factor. It'd probably be more common among non human jedi, particularly very large species. It wouldn't have any additional offensive properties, but it might work fairly well at providing cover.

Not only blasters, but ship lasers as well. And not really, just something I found odd, considering how many settings have at least some energy weapons that have a square barrel, rather than a round one. There's really no need to have a round barrel for a blaster.
F (http://www.geekologie.com/2008/04/09/wicked-bb-gun.jpg)a (http://www.teamofkiller.clanweb.cz/images/articles-pics/Ak47gp30.jpg)m (http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload/product/img/TM%20FAMAS%20F1-L.jpg)i (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Gatling.gun.750pix.jpg)l (http://www.fmft.net/Browning%20Hi%20Power%20P35%209mm%20pistol.jpg)i (http://www.imfdb.org/images/8/86/BrowningM2.jpg)arity (http://happybrainstorm.com/wp-includes/images/1155431705sniper.jpg).
No, I couldn't remember any more guns. Hush.

[Xuc Xac]

On the subject of duel-wielding being inconvenient, Miyamoto Musashi encouraged the use of two swords in the Book of Five Rings. This alone seems like a good enough reason to not discount the concept.

Miyamoto Musashi wasn't dumb enough to think that one technique was the One True Way that should be used in every situation. He advocated using only the short sword while indoors, using both swords when surrounded by enemies, using only the long sword while in a one-on-one duel, using a spear from horseback, and using a gun when fighting from inside a fortified position.

His position was that dual-wielding was a good idea sometimes, not all the time. If Musashi were a Jedi, he'd dual-wield against hordes of mooks like droid armies and clones, but he'd switch to a single-blade style when dueling a Sith.

[Philistine]

My hopes were dashed because that one in particular sounded like they'd be what I was looking for, and they weren't. There was also a great deal of exaggeration in that post.

Its not like it'd be less practical than some of the other lightsaber variants out there, and its not always about practicality. When dealing with fiction, sometimes you want a weapon that should be impractical but just looks awesome.

And every single laser is round as well, not just lightsaber ones.

Then why are you asking about lightsaber versions of Buster Swords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloud_Strife_art.jpg)? Those are the exact, antithetical, polar opposite of "awesome."

[TheThan]

I'd quite like to see a Blaster rifle with Lightsaber-bayonet... especially if wielded by Kyle Katarn.

This is awesome. You get points for the idea, but you get double points for mentioning Kyle Katarn.

[the doomed one]

More sword like?

Like this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darksaber_(lightsaber))? :smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

Like this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darksaber_(lightsaber))? :smallamused:

Yes! Though hopefully in a more standard lightsaber color.

And I was thinking more Solar Exalted Daiklave than Buster Sword. :smalltongue:

[KnightDisciple]

Yes! Though hopefully in a more standard lightsaber color.

And I was thinking more Solar Exalted Daiklave than Buster Sword. :smalltongue:Which is even bigger. There's a certain point where only the largest members of the order are going to be able to really wield these things.

It just seems like pointless overkill in my mind, and totally not in line with the general aesthetics of the Jedi, and Star Wars in general.

If you like Exalted Daiklaves....play exalted?:smallconfused:

[Kris Strife]

If you like Exalted Daiklaves....play exalted?:smallconfused:

Getting ready to actually. :smalltongue:

And yes its going to seem a bit silly being used by most, but I'd still like to play a Jedi using a lightsaber with a Darksaber shaped blade.

[KnightDisciple]

Getting ready to actually. :smalltongue:

And yes its going to seem a bit silly being used by most, but I'd still like to play a Jedi using a lightsaber with a Darksaber shaped blade.Well, one shaped like that Darksaber from the animated series doesn't seem a huge stretch. Maybe it's an ancient artifact or something; obviously it's not something constructed in mass lots...

[Kris Strife]

Well, one shaped like that Darksaber from the animated series doesn't seem a huge stretch. Maybe it's an ancient artifact or something; obviously it's not something constructed in mass lots...

Well, every Jedi's lightsaber is supposed to be made themselves is it not? Why wouldn't there be at least one who chose a more blade like appearance for his? According to the Wookiepedia article, the Darksaber is an ancient weapon, might have been built before known protosabers, but upgraded to work with a modern power source.

[Eric Tolle]

MY Sith (Because Sith are Teh Mos Kewl) is going to have twin automatic shotguns that fire sharks dual-wielding nun-chucks that have chainsaws on the end, where the teeth are all lightsabers.

He is going to be the utterly most badass and coolest Jedi/Sith Knight EVAR.

[hamishspence]

In Saga Edition, (Jedi Academy Training Manual) there are large, thick lightsabers especially designed for Large characters- Great Lightsabers.

Medium characters can wield them- but they can't use finesse feats with them.

On Jedi wielding dual-bladed lightsabers- in Darth Bane: Rule Of Two, when several Jedi attack Bane and his apprentice, one wields a dual-bladed lightsaber.