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View Full Version : Casting spells. How do you rule it?



Khellendross
2010-06-19, 02:03 AM
According to raw retrieving a stored item does provoke a AoO. This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door unless it otherwise states so like pulling a weapon out or pulling arrows out to load a bow. Spell components would be a stored item. They are stored in a spell pouch that you'd have to sift through or in several spell pouches to accommodate higher level casters who have more than 4 spells a day.

Now it does say that to cast a spell with a material (M), focus (F), or divine focus (DF) component, you have to have the proper materials, as described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch. At this point you have to decide on how specific or general the term preparing is. Preparing could simply mean manipulating the material after already haven drawn then such as pouring wine into a chalice. By that definition you would both incur and AoO from both pulling out the stored items i.e. the material components and another if they didnít cast defensively. You could also interpret that preparing or manipulating spell components also includes drawing all the materials which in that case you would only incur an AoO from not casting defensively.

Itís all about interoperation. Neither is more right than the other. Actually both ways are right so it comes down to which way your DM deems it. My personal ruling would be pulling out spell components would be under the stored item rules so would incur an AoO. Itís not really a massive hindering to an already huge power source. That 20th level caster is still going to take out that 20th level fighter.

How would you personally rule it?

HunterOfJello
2010-06-19, 02:18 AM
Unless the enemy has Combat Reflexes, then it doesn't actually make a difference.

My group only uses 1 AoO for a caster casting a spell with a material component. I think most groups do the same.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 02:20 AM
You're right if they don't have combat reflex's it won't matter but if they do then great. You now get two AoO

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 02:29 AM
Except preparing a spell component for use in a spell includes putting it in your hand to make it ready for the spell. That's explicitly a 'no' on AoOs, and it says so on the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm#dropanItem). I really have no idea where the confusion lies. :smallconfused:

JaxGaret
2010-06-19, 02:37 AM
Except preparing a spell component for use in a spell includes putting it in your hand to make it ready for the spell. That's explicitly a 'no' on AoOs, and it says so on the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm#dropanItem). I really have no idea where the confusion lies. :smallconfused:

The confusion lies with DMs attempting to nerf spellcasters any which way they can.

Anxe
2010-06-19, 02:40 AM
Some of the ways the spell components are used are strange that they don't provoke extra attacks. Like Protection from Alignment requires silver dust. The caster has to spread the silver dust in a circle around the target. How do you do that without including a move action in the spell as well?

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 02:43 AM
The confusion lies with DMs attempting to nerf spellcasters any which way they can.I'll just stick with psions, then, or find ways to bypass material components completely.

On a completely unrelated note, are there any arrows that don't deal any damage at all?

JaxGaret
2010-06-19, 02:59 AM
On a completely unrelated note, are there any arrows that don't deal any damage at all?

There's thundering arrows. They act as thunderstones instead of dealing damage.

Lycar
2010-06-19, 04:57 AM
The confusion lies with DMs attempting to nerf spellcasters any which way they can.

Don't forget that in D&D 3.x it is ridiculously hard to disrupt a spellcaster. In AD&D on the other hand, inflicting a single point of damage was enough to make a spell fizzle. And since casting was not instantaneous, people just had to act on an initiative segment between the caster starting to cast and spell completion. No need to ready an attack.

Now casting giving adjacent foes an AoO would be a replacement, if it wasn't so ridiculously easy to avoid those. Never mind that Concentrate checks become non-issues after a certain level (of optimization), you could even forgo Concentrate forever and just 5'-step 'till the cows come home.

Now making preparing fancy components give AoOs doesn't really address the problem of caster impunity. It would just add an extra complication as in 'do I pick the spell with fiddly material components or the other spell, which does the same thing better/just as well/worse without any material component at all?'.

It could be a bit of a balancing factor for spell selection.

If AoOs mattered that is.

Lycar

faceroll
2010-06-19, 05:13 AM
Unless the enemy has Combat Reflexes, then it doesn't actually make a difference.

Actually, it makes a huge difference, because the wizard can only defensively cast to protect himself vs. one AoO, and the other will always get through.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 08:29 AM
"Lycanthromancer
Re: Casting spells. How do you rule it?
Except preparing a spell component for use in a spell includes putting it in your hand to make it ready for the spell. That's explicitly a 'no' on AoOs, and it says so on the table here. I really have no idea where the confusion lies. "

Not 100% true. Preparing spell components for use in a spell doesn't include putting it in your hand. That would be mixing wine in a bowl or sprinkling dust or swallowing a pearl etc.

Neither way is more right than the other. It's all how you interpret the meaning of the word prepare here. It's a valid point what your'e saying but so is my way.

Amphetryon
2010-06-19, 08:41 AM
"Lycanthromancer
Re: Casting spells. How do you rule it?
Except preparing a spell component for use in a spell includes putting it in your hand to make it ready for the spell. That's explicitly a 'no' on AoOs, and it says so on the table here. I really have no idea where the confusion lies. "

Not 100% true. Preparing spell components for use in a spell doesn't include putting it in your hand. That would be mixing wine in a bowl or sprinkling dust or swallowing a pearl etc.

Neither way is more right than the other. It's all how you interpret the meaning of the word prepare here. It's a valid point what your'e saying but so is my way.

That's.... needlessly pedantic, for my tastes. Just tell spellcasters they're required by the house rules to take Eschew Materials, in that instance.

mucat
2010-06-19, 08:48 AM
Not 100% true. Preparing spell components for use in a spell doesn't include putting it in your hand. That would be mixing wine in a bowl or sprinkling dust or swallowing a pearl etc.
No, those acts are all part of actually casting the spell, not preparing the components.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-19, 09:08 AM
If the component does not have a cost, then it is negligible and meaningless.

The spell components are a joke. They always have been, and oh good lord, they finally stopped with 4e. They are not intended to have any game effect whatsoever, because that introduces a bookkeeping nightmare that makes the Wizard as-is seem trivial.

This is a terrible way to balance anything. Making spell components in any way important (beyond the 5 gp tax on the spell component pouch, and its implications for grappling/getting imprisoned) doesn't really nerf the wizard, but it does make him supremely unfun.

This is a better idea than most, honestly. I still think it's a bad one, just because it makes people pay attention to which spells have trivial material components, and that's just not worth anyone's time.

Even with this rule, Wizards are still going to be more powerful than most everything and anything. This is not getting to the root of the problem. It's a band-aid on a decapitation.

But regardless, this would be a houserule. Drawing a spell component is a part of casting the spell, so you do not "double dip" and get two AoOs for it. If you want to try the game with that as a houserule, I think you'll find it more trouble than it's worth, but do not pretend that it's RAW.

Myou
2010-06-19, 09:08 AM
It's a free action to take components from a spell component pouch, and the action does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Using the components to cast a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity.

There is no conflict here.

Seffbasilisk
2010-06-19, 09:11 AM
You cannot provoke two AoOs from the same action.

Casting a spell provokes. Tah dah.


FYI: For the arrows, look up Pungent arrows. No damage, but gives a small bonus on survival checks to track'm.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 09:19 AM
I do agree with you that spell components should be taken out as if everyone has the eschew materials feat but what I read and pointed out is RAW and not wrong. It's a completely legit interpretation of the rules. That preparing would be more mixing the components etc and how I read it makes more sense.

A caster with several bags, which is what he is going to need. to accommodate all those components at higher levels would have to rummage through the bag to feel for which components he needs. Some larger items like a diamond worth 25,000g isn't even going to be in a pouch but in your backpack or some other place that could store a larger item. Pulling out these stored times takes time and actions but preparing them after you've pulled them out is a free action and starts to become part of casting.

I do very well see your points on how it wouldn't be an AoO but I do also see my point as well being just as legit by the rules. It just depends on how general or specific you make a word.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-19, 09:24 AM
Material (M)
A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Donít bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Focus (F)
A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch.
Don't even bother to keep track of them, is the rule.

And you do not need multiple spell component pouches. The rules, above, are very clear on this. They're clearly very small, very cheap, very unique Handy Haversacks that endlessly refill.

Rothen
2010-06-19, 09:34 AM
I do agree with you that spell components should be taken out as if everyone has the eschew materials feat but what I read and pointed out is RAW and not wrong. It's a completely legit interpretation of the rules. That preparing would be more mixing the components etc and how I read it makes more sense.


v


Except preparing a spell component for use in a spell includes putting it in your hand to make it ready for the spell. That's explicitly a 'no' on AoOs, and it says so on the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm#dropanItem). I really have no idea where the confusion lies. :smallconfused:


To cast a spell with a material (M), focus (F), or divine focus (DF) component, you have to have the proper materials, as described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.

So any component that does not have a listed cost can be taken from your SC pouch, and that's an action that does not provoke.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 09:51 AM
Material (M)
A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Donít bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Oh cool. I didn't see this part and no one pointed it out till now. I guess it would only really apply to things that do have a cost.

Kaulesh
2010-06-19, 10:18 AM
You have to keep your 25,000gp diamonds in your backpack? Where does it say you can't keep spell components in your spell component pouch? It's not a stretch to say that a diamond at that price isn't necessarily super large.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-19, 10:19 AM
You must have skipped over the entire part of the combat section about casting spells, and just went straight to the part about how spending a move action to retrieve a stored item provokes an AoO:

Cast a Spell

Most spells require 1 standard action to cast. You can cast such a spell either before or after you take a move action.

Note: You retain your Dexterity bonus to AC while casting.
Spell Components

To cast a spell with a verbal (V) component, your character must speak in a firm voice. If youíre gagged or in the area of a silence spell, you canít cast such a spell. A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell he tries to cast if that spell has a verbal component.

To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You canít cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied.

To cast a spell with a material (M), focus (F), or divine focus (DF) component, you have to have the proper materials, as described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.

Some spells have an experience point (XP) component and entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the lost XP. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to achieve a new level, immediately spend the XP on casting the spell rather than keeping it to advance a level. The XP are expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.
Concentration

You must concentrate to cast a spell. If you canít concentrate you canít cast a spell. If you start casting a spell but something interferes with your concentration you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell. The checkís DC depends on what is threatening your concentration (see the Concentration skill). If you fail, the spell fizzles with no effect. If you prepare spells, it is lost from preparation. If you cast at will, it counts against your daily limit of spells even though you did not cast it successfully.
Concentrating to Maintain a Spell

Some spells require continued concentration to keep them going. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that doesnít provoke an attack of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can keep you from concentrating to maintain a spell. If your concentration breaks, the spell ends.
Casting Time

Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. A spell cast in this manner immediately takes effect.
Attacks of Opportunity

Generally, if you cast a spell, you provoke attacks of opportunity from threatening enemies. If you take damage from an attack of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + points of damage taken + spell level) or lose the spell. Spells that require only a free action to cast donít provoke attacks of opportunity.
Casting on the Defensive

Casting a spell while on the defensive does not provoke an attack of opportunity. It does, however, require a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to pull off. Failure means that you lose the spell.
Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks

Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponentís AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge

If you donít discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you arenít considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesnít provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Dismiss a Spell

Dismissing an active spell is a standard action that doesnít provoke attacks of opportunity.
As for your word ambiguity argument:

pre∑pare (prĭ-p‚r')
v. pre∑pared , pre∑par∑ing , pre∑pares

v. tr.

1. To make ready beforehand for a specific purpose, as for an event or occasion: The teacher prepared the students for the exams.
2. To put together or make by combining various elements or ingredients; manufacture or compound: prepared a meal; prepared the lecture.
3. To fit out; equip: prepared the ship for an arctic expedition.
4. Music To lead up to and soften (a dissonance or its impact) by means of preparation.

v. intr.

1. To make things or oneself ready.
2. To study or complete a course of study at a preparatory school.
Preparing material components to cast a spell would be akin to preparing a meal: the act of retrieving and combining various elements and ingredients, the entirety of which is a free action which does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Edit: This would include preparing costly components that are kept in your spell component pouch as well.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 10:37 AM
Material (M)
A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Donít bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Oh cool. I didn't see this part and no one pointed it out till now. I guess it would only really apply to things that do have a cost.I showed you that myself.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 10:44 AM
I did read that part and I you aren't pointing out anything extra.

Also when you prepare a meal you have to get everything out first then PREPARE it lol. If anything you proved my point.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 10:47 AM
I did read that part and I you aren't pointing out anything extra.I pointed that part out specifically. Like 6 times. Oh well.


Also when you prepare a meal you have to get everything out first then PREPARE it lol. If anything you proved my point.Pulling out ingredients is part of preparing a meal. You can't cook the angel hair if it's still up in the cabinet, after all.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 10:51 AM
Yes and pulling out that angel hair pasta would provoke that AoO :-)

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 10:53 AM
Yes and pulling out that angel hair pasta would provoke that AoO :-)Except the book specifically says not?

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 10:53 AM
Lycanthromancer~You have to have actually pointed out something 6 times to claim you did. You never once pointed out that spell components with no cost are negligible.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 10:55 AM
"Except the book specifically says not?"

Not true. I've pointed out how it can that I'm right. I'm neither right nor wrong just like you aren't. You can view it either way and be right. IT just comes down to what the DM decides and he wouldn't be wrong.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-19, 11:02 AM
"Except the book specifically says not?"

Not true. I've pointed out how it can that I'm right. I'm neither right nor wrong just like you aren't. You can view it either way and be right. IT just comes down to what the DM decides and he wouldn't be wrong.


Lycanthromancer~You have to have actually pointed out something 6 times to claim you did. You never once pointed out that spell components with no cost are negligible.

Uh huh. Right.

Dragonmuncher
2010-06-19, 11:03 AM
This is a terrible idea, that would not add to the game in any appreciable way.

There are other, better ways to nerf spellcasters.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 11:19 AM
I didn't bring it up to nerf spellcasters lol. It was something I noticed and asked how others go about it.

In games I personally run I don't even bother with spell components below 5 gold pieces as if the spells don't actually require them. The Eschew materials+ is free to casters since I use the Mana system out of the Unearthed Arcana book.

Tinydwarfman
2010-06-19, 12:30 PM
{Scrubbed}

erikun
2010-06-19, 12:38 PM
It's an interesting variation, but it sounds like it will take a lot of overview from the DM given that the actions which provoke and the actions which do not vary wildly from spell to spell. Protection from Evil provokes, while Mage Armor does not, for example. The penality is also completely negated with a 5' step, even if that still wouldn't make any sense. (I step behind the fighter, then pour a small bag of silver filings around his feet while he is still engaged in melee. No I can't get attacked while doing so, my character is still in this square!)

This sounds a bit too micromanagementy for the vast number of spells you learn in D&D. It might work if you had a lesser number of spells, thus tracing lines or sprinkling dust over people becomes more noteworthy. However, in D&D you're getting new spells for free every dozen fights and most of them won't always be used in combat, so it will be harder to keep track of which spells always provoke.

Zaq
2010-06-19, 12:53 PM
Out of curiosity, Khellendross, why did you completely ignore the table in the link that Lycanthromancer posted? (It's also on page 141 of the PHB, if you prefer paper.) It explicitly says that preparing material components is a free action that doesn't provoke. Explicitly.

General: Retrieving a stored item provokes.
Specific: Preparing material components does not provoke.

Specific > General.

Where's the possible conflict here?

koeldflare
2010-06-19, 01:28 PM
... at which point the noob in the playground suggest that we stop posting in this clearly done thread, for fear that this topic will ALWAYS be on page 1.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 01:29 PM
... at which point the noob in the playground suggest that we stop feeding the troll, for fear that this topic will ALWAYS be on page 1.Now now, calling people trolls isn't polite. (It is against the forum guidelines, though.)

bloodtide
2010-06-19, 01:46 PM
Just to add a bit of flavor.

I've always had spell casters use the spell component pouch for Storage only. Spell components that are needed, are out and ready and available.

For example:Having a tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur tied to your thumb with a string.

A feather can be worn in the hair or anywhere on the person.

A tiny pouch(dime size) can be tied on anywhere with a string: hair, finger, pocket.

If you have ever hiked, hunted, fished or camped(or been in the military) you know that people use pockets, hooks, strings and such all over their bodies to hold things. Easy example:the old fishing lures in the hat.

After all, when you see the average fantasy wizard, they have lots of stuff hanging off them..like feathers, pouches, etc.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 02:46 PM
Jesus Christ Khellendross, just let it go. There is no possible correct interpretation that makes a wizard take an AoO for making an attack of opportunity. A DM can make any houserules he wants, but he can be wrong about RAW.

You really should watch your language there please. That kind of talk is offensive to some of us.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 02:50 PM
Out of curiosity, Khellendross, why did you completely ignore the table in the link that Lycanthromancer posted? (It's also on page 141 of the PHB, if you prefer paper.) It explicitly says that preparing material components is a free action that doesn't provoke. Explicitly.

General: Retrieving a stored item provokes.
Specific: Preparing material components does not provoke.

Specific > General.

Where's the possible conflict here?

I didn't ignore anything. I said that way is correct. All I'm saying is you view prepare as in preparing something that's already been pulled out of storage then it changes everything.

The problem is most of you just don't want it to work like that. I'm not saying the normal way is wrong or incorrect. I'm just saying there is another way to see it and still have it be right

Koury
2010-06-19, 03:04 PM
You really should watch your language there please. That kind of talk is offensive to some of us.

Nothing in his post is against any of the forum rules.


I didn't ignore anything. I said that way is correct. All I'm saying is you view prepare as in preparing something that's already been pulled out of storage then it changes everything.

The problem is most of you just don't want it to work like that. I'm not saying the normal way is wrong or incorrect. I'm just saying there is another way to see it and still have it be right

Its not that we don't want it to work like that (though I'm sure most of us don't), it's that they don't work like that.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 03:06 PM
Nothing in his post is against any of the forum rules.Oh, but saying that someone is wrong is so very offensive.

Ravens_cry
2010-06-19, 03:09 PM
Now now, calling people trolls isn't polite. (It is against the forum guidelines, though.)
Yeah, I got an infraction for doing so.

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 03:10 PM
I don't find him saying I'm wrong offensive or the fact he doesn't like the post. I find using Jesus Christ in that tone to be offensive and all I did was ask him to please not use it like that. I don't know all the rules to this forum site but I don't see how talking like that would be considered okay.

Jarian
2010-06-19, 03:13 PM
Khellendross, I have one very simple question.

How are you managing to ignore this line, which has been pointed out repeatedly?


Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action.

I'm really curious, because from here, it looks like an incredible case of selective reading.

erikun
2010-06-19, 03:13 PM
The PHB specifically says that a spell component pouch has all the material components and focuses required for spellcasting (p. 130), and that you may prepare spell components to cast a spell as a free action which does not provoke an attack of opportunity (p. 141). It does not say that you must store 10,000 gp diamonds in your backpack, and thus must spend a move action which provokes an AoO to retrieve it. This is especially true when the character's dagger is worth a hundred times that amount, yet hangs by his waist all day and is used to cut mutton. A single diamond, or even a handful of them, is not an "extremely large or awkward item."

If you want to change things a bit and make casting certain spells more dangerous, then just let your players know and implement it. However, be wary of being unusually restrictive with the rulings. The point, I presume, is to make casting a bit more realistic. It is perfectly reasonable for a Wizard to keep silver filings in a beltpouch or vest pocket for quick and safe use, even if it "bypasses" your houserule.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 03:13 PM
Yeah, I got an infraction for doing so.I got one for linking to realmshelp. Infraction buddies?

I don't see how talking like that would be considered okay.:smallconfused: Uh, yeah, okay?

[Edit]:
How are you managing to ignore this line, which has been pointed out repeatedly?Bat poo is elaborate!

Koury
2010-06-19, 03:14 PM
I don't find him saying I'm wrong offensive or the fact he doesn't like the post. I find using Jesus Christ in that tone to be offensive and all I did was ask him to please not use it like that. I don't know all the rules to this forum site but I don't see how talking like that would be considered okay.

Talking like what?

The Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=30&a=1) are at the top of every forum. Next to the big bolded "Announcement"

Ravens_cry
2010-06-19, 03:16 PM
I got one for linking to realmshelp. Infraction buddies?

*clasps hands*
Infraction Buddies.:smalltongue:

Khellendross
2010-06-19, 03:19 PM
Khellendross, I have one very simple question.

How are you managing to ignore this line, which has been pointed out repeatedly?

Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action.

I'm really curious, because from here, it looks like an incredible case of selective reading.

I wasn't ignoring it. That was explained before in a above post.

Roland St. Jude
2010-06-19, 03:19 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Okay, this thread seems to be thoroughly derailed into a discussion about the Forum Rules and Infractions (which by the way neither of the posters above actually as, and, regardless, we'd prefer you not make a spectacle of such things.