Average Level 3 Frontliner HP/AC(3.5)

[PersonMan]

I'm playing an HP tank/battlefield controller for a level 3 game tomorrow, and was wondering how much HP/AC is good for a frontliner to have at level 3. I've finished the character, and I'd like something good to measure it against HP and AC-wise.

[Flickerdart]

Attacks from CR3 enemies range from about +6-11, meaning that you'll want an AC as close to the 20 mark as you can to stand a decent chance. Damage output averages around 15, so you'll probably drop after 2-4 solid hits from a melee beater regardless of how much HP you have (though, the entire encounter will have to be focusing on you alone for its duration if you have lots). About the best you can do is Barbarian, Knight or Warblade Dwarf - a +4 CON modifier shouldn't be too hard, grabbing you an average of 37HP. At this level, a source of even DR 5 is great, assuming you can find it.

Fortunately, as a BC specialist, your job is not to get hit. These values also change if you start facing kobolds or some such in large numbers instead of singular ogres - lots of small hits means they have a higher chance of getting through AC, but your HP isn't as important as killing them all before they kill you.

[PersonMan]

Hmmm.

At this point, I have AC 18 and 48 HP(Wastelander).

[true_shinken]

Hmmm.

At this point, I have AC 18 and 48 HP(Wastelander).

Only 18? Man, that will hurt you.

[AtwasAwamps]

18 will sting...I take it you're not using a shield, so I'm guessing we've got the standard heavy armor/2 hander issue. If you're a full BAB class and have high strength, you can simply focus on fighting defensively for a bit until you get a boost. Can't think of anything else at the moment without knowing terms of the game and whatnot.

[gbprime]

He's got 48 HP. He'll be fine. Remember, the AVERAGE for a Barbarian with an 18 CON is 37hp, or 33hp for a Fighter. You're a wall of meat, my friend. :smallcool:

And honestly... 15 HP of damage per hit??? If you're 3rd level and the orcs you're fighting are averaging 15 points of damage on you per hit, then your campaign is WAY too deadly. 15 per hit should be for the rare, optimized-PC-level bad guys. Your average orc should be whacking you for 1d8+4 at that level.

[PersonMan]

AC breakdown: +5 armor(breastplate), +3 dex

I have an ability that can heal me 9 points per day and one that can reduce damage from a hit I take by 3 once per round.

[Amphetryon]

He's got 48 HP. He'll be fine. Remember, the AVERAGE for a Barbarian with an 18 CON is 37hp, or 33hp for a Fighter. You're a wall of meat, my friend. :smallcool:

And honestly... 15 HP of damage per hit??? If you're 3rd level and the orcs you're fighting are averaging 15 points of damage on you per hit, then your campaign is WAY too deadly. 15 per hit should be for the rare, optimized-PC-level bad guys. Your average orc should be whacking you for 1d8+4 at that level.
Emphasis mine. The bolded part is extremely campaign-dependent. Off the top of my head, Orc Barbarian 2 with Power Attack + Martial Study (Desert Wind: Burning Blade) does 3d6 + 13 or so damage per hit while Raging - with no reason not to Rage.

[PersonMan]

Emphasis mine. The bolded part is extremely campaign-dependent. Off the top of my head, Orc Barbarian 2 with Power Attack + Martial Study (Desert Wind: Burning Blade) does 3d6 + 13 or so damage per hit while Raging - with no reason not to Rage.

Eh. I'm playing in a less-lethal campaign. We don't have ToB, and the only real big optimizers in my group are me and this other guy who's also playing, so I'm pretty sure that the DM isn't suddenly going to whip out random opti-fu on us.

[Greenish]

Eh. I'm playing in a less-lethal campaign. We don't have ToB, and the only real big optimizers in my group are me and this other guy who's also playing, so I'm pretty sure that the DM isn't suddenly going to whip out random opti-fu on us.Orc barbarian 2 (with a falchion like the orc warriors) hits for 2d4+7, average 12, with 18-20 threat range, while raging. PA for 2 points and the average hit will be 16.

[gbprime]

Emphasis mine. The bolded part is extremely campaign-dependent. Off the top of my head, Orc Barbarian 2 with Power Attack + Martial Study (Desert Wind: Burning Blade) does 3d6 + 13 or so damage per hit while Raging - with no reason not to Rage.

Yeahbut that's a boss-type encounter for a 3rd level group, not an average fight.

Unless you're in one of those groups where every fight is a boss fight?

[Greenish]

Yeahbut that's a boss-type encounter for a 3rd level group, not an average fight.A level 2 NPC is a boss encounter for a whole group of level 3 PCs? :smallconfused:

[gbprime]

A level 2 NPC is a boss encounter for a whole group of level 3 PCs? :smallconfused:

well clearly he's not ALONE, no more than the optimized warblade is ever alone.

I guess that begs the question of what a "normal" fight is. Usually it's a bunch of schmucks with weapons, whereas a "boss fight" is a buncha schmucks with weapons backed up by a leader type or two.

[Amphetryon]

well clearly he's not ALONE, no more than the optimized warblade is ever alone.

I guess that begs the question of what a "normal" fight is. Usually it's a bunch of schmucks with weapons, whereas a "boss fight" is a buncha schmucks with weapons backed up by a leader type or two.

Sounds, again, pretty campaign dependent.

[Greenish]

well clearly he's not ALONEYeah, but he's a shmuck with a weapon, and averages 16 damage per hit. Only +5 to hit when power attacking for the full like a proper berserk orc should.

The orc warrior 2 averages mere 13 points per hit. That's cr 1.

[true_shinken]

I usually use the ogre for CR 3 comparisons. It averages 16 damage on a hit and hits at +8. With only 29hp and AC 16 though, he would probably only get one or two swings against a party of four before dying, meaning the OP would roughly meet the expected '25% use of resources' (in this case, HP).

[Another_Poet]

I would consider a buckler, it's only -1 to your two-handed attack rolls for +1 to AC, which is a better ratio than fighting defensively (-4 to attack for +2 to AC).

Also you can still fight defensively with a buckler on and they stack, if you are ever that desperate for AC.

[Ilmryn]

I would consider a buckler, it's only -1 to your two-handed attack rolls for +1 to AC, which is a better ratio than fighting defensively (-4 to attack for +2 to AC).

Also you can still fight defensively with a buckler on and they stack, if you are ever that desperate for AC.

I don't think using a buckler gives you a penalty on two-handed attacks. If I'm wrong, where does it say that, I use bucklers for two-weapon fighters quite a lot... However, to get the AC bonus on rounds you attack, you need a feat(Improved Buckler Defense from CW).

[gbprime]

Law Devotion is a great feat if you can swing it. Even if you have no turn undeads and can only power it up once a day, you still get to choose +3 to hit or +3 AC every round for 10 rounds. It's a sacred bonus, so it stacks with most everything, and it scales up to +5 at 10th and +7 at 15th.

[Rothen]

I don't think using a buckler gives you a penalty on two-handed attacks. If I'm wrong, where does it say that, I use bucklers for two-weapon fighters quite a lot... However, to get the AC bonus on rounds you attack, you need a feat(Improved Buckler Defense from CW).


This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.



Emphasis mine. You get a -1 to attack. But I suppose that might be worth it if you stack on some enhancements on the buckler at later levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I don't think using a buckler gives you a penalty on two-handed attacks. If I'm wrong, where does it say that, I use bucklers for two-weapon fighters quite a lot... However, to get the AC bonus on rounds you attack, you need a feat(Improved Buckler Defense from CW).


Buckler

This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

You can’t bash someone with a buckler.
Right there.

Ninjas!