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View Full Version : [Challenge] Level 1 Commoner as a God!



Morph Bark
2010-06-20, 06:27 AM
Just as the title says: I intend to have a level 1 Commoner gain so many followers/worshippers he effectively is turned into a god. How did this come to be? Even he doesn't really know, it was just pure luck (this will therefore certainly be one of his granted domains).

The baseline of this idea would be that he (she? could work for either sex) is a level 1 Commoner with everything that a level 1 Commoner could possibly have.

To put limitations on this though, let's say COMMONER (as he'll be called from now on, in all caps, because he's a GOD):
has no Divine Rank (this is for the sake of this challenge; he still grants 2 domains to Clerics),
has 4 ranks in every skill ever (in 3.5),
is proficient with all simple weapons (COMMONER may take feats for more),
isn't proficient with any armour or shields (unless he takes feats),
can have up to 21 feats: 1 for level 1, 20 for being a god. These 20 extra feats cannot have each other as a prerequisite, but may have the level 1 feat as a prerequisite or things gained from race (including the Human bonus feat), as well as other stuff COMMONER has as per the rules above.
can be of any LA+0, racial HD-less WotC-published race is available. (Of course, COMMONER may not change races.)
may have an unlimited amount of grafts as long as each graft doesn't cost more than 9000 gp each. These grafts may be of any kind and don't impose penalties either. (COMMONER either had a very disturbing life as the son of a fan of Victor Frankenstein or had a fascination for mad science.)
may not have any magic items unless these are gained from feats,
isn't Pun-Pun or something similar.

So, basically, the most of the challenge comes down to "get me 21 feats that a level 1 Commoner could take that, combined, make that level 1 Commoner the most awesome and overpowered Commoner ever, but still within the RAI". And then some added stuff (grafts) that makes it mesh nicely and gives it even more of a push.

All WotC books are available. Pathfinder, 3rd-party and Dragon/Dungeon articles are out, as well as 4E material, obviously. 3.0 books disallowed, save for "borderline edition" ones, like Savage Species, BoED and BoVD, which came out late and near the release of 3.5.

Show me your COMMONERs! Pimp my GOD!


P.S. Feel free to pitch ideas for fluff or backstory, that is always appreciated.

EDIT: For the purposes of going with the fluff, anything chicken-related is totally acceptable in this thread, including creature stats, spells (mainly for COMMONER's Clerics) and for the daring ones, a PrC for followers of COMMONER. Perhaps anyone has ideas for organizations relating to this, or the Church of COMMONER, if it officially exists at all?

Volthawk
2010-06-20, 07:05 AM
Maybe COMMONER is worshipped by nests of Awakened Ants?

cheezewizz2000
2010-06-20, 07:17 AM
COMMONER and his bard friend go out drinking and COMMONER does something hilarious. I dunno, draws a moustache on the statue of the king or something. Shenannigans ensue and COMMONER and the bard are forced to flee from the guards and get away by hiding in a cart-load of horse manure.

The bard writes an epic poem after this, that details their hijinx and shenannigans. It's a catchy tune and everyone likes it. The story gets overblown in its retelling until eventually it becomes about how this COMMONER stole the king's moustache, disguised himself as a manure salesman and managed to cover the king and all his guards in horse turds.

The laughter, revellry and joviality that spring from this eventually becomes so widespread that COMMONER apotheosises to become the much-loved god of thieves and pranksters.

The bard, who never got copyright on his song, continues to toil in obscurity as his work is stolen by everyone. He eventually becomes an outspoken public-speaker on how word-of-mouth harms the music industry. He is dismissed as an idiot.

Morph Bark
2010-06-20, 08:49 AM
See, no that's the kind of backstory ideas I'd love to see. :smallwink: Whether they'd be funny, awesome, dramatic or sexy, even though this thread was moreso created for mechanical ideas, crunch without fluff is like a construct that should have been a humanoid with the same amount of HD stuffed into class levels gained through in-game play.

rockdeworld
2010-06-20, 09:38 AM
I don't really understand what you're asking for. Do you want us to take the limitations you've placed and use them to make a pun-pun-style commoner, or create a level 1 commoner that meets those criteria?

Morph Bark
2010-06-20, 10:10 AM
I don't really understand what you're asking for. Do you want us to take the limitations you've placed and use them to make a pun-pun-style commoner, or create a level 1 commoner that meets those criteria?

I don't really understand the difference between those options there, so I guess we both weren't clear enough?

What I am wanting to do is to make a level 1 Commoner into a god, and to justify that, he needs as much OOMPH a Commoner could possibly get. So, basically, the idea is to "create the most powerful level 1 Commoner you can imagine that meets these criteria, yet still isn't a complete rulebreaker".

Minor rule-breakage may be condoned, but Pun-Pun-style stuff with loopholes and the like won't be, even though Kobolds are allowed.


The 20 extra feats thing came from the idea of E6. COMMONER will basically be E1, and power-effectively kind-of like a fifth level character, which is assumed the highest level one could reach in real life. Basically? COMMONER is an ordinary guy who ended up being the plainest and yet most awesome person you have ever met.

So, basically, the most of the challenge comes down to "get me 21 feats that a level 1 Commoner could take that, combined, make that level 1 Commoner the most awesome and overpowered Commoner ever, but still within the RAI". And then some added stuff (grafts) that makes it mesh nicely and gives it even more of a push.


Perhaps I should add assumed starting ability scores or score arrays? All 10s, all 11s, all 18s or 13/12/11/10/9/8 and the like?

Bibliomancer
2010-06-20, 11:27 AM
Wouldn't the commoner gain the extra 20 feats after ascending to COMMONERhood? Thus, shouldn't there be 2 layers of the optimization: the first for the commoner's original form, and the second for the COMMONER?

Or are you assuming that the COMMONER ascended due to sheer happenstance and thus the pre-ascension form is irrelevant?

Stompy
2010-06-20, 12:18 PM
I would say that COMMONER should take skill focus: profession(being shot out of a cannon), skill focus: profession(cannon-making), and skill focus: craft (alchemy)

COMMONER launches himself out of the cannon, with a GIANT bag of alchemist's fire, goes over the enemy army, and carpet bombs them. (You may want skill focus: profession (physicist) too.)

See also, COMMONER is a raptoran, and glides down safely. :smalltongue:

EDIT: The awe and fear that come from the carpet bombings make him a god. The aerial acrobatics help too.

Dragon Elite
2010-06-20, 12:29 PM
YES.
Stompy gets an cookie.
That is made of pure win.

Kris Strife
2010-06-20, 12:30 PM
Take chicken infested and somehow get animal empathy. Get the infinite chickens to worship him as their creator.

Alternatively, end world hunger with the chickens, the praise and gratitude of a thankful nation turns him into a deity of feasting, bountiful harvests and chickens.

mabriss lethe
2010-06-20, 12:36 PM
hmm.

I'd go for plain ol' Human.
Feat choices
-Domain feats: healing devotion could get him started as the front man for a small cult of personality somewhere in the sticks.
-bind vestige and related feats from Tome of Magic could grant him a good range of abilities and impress the yokels.
-martial study/stance to pick up some refreshable "magic" possibly from shadow hand or desert wind for more supernatural fun.

Flickerdart
2010-06-20, 01:40 PM
Shape Soulmeld for something like Astral Vambraces (DR 2/magic even without essentia, plus he could be Azurin to get a point, so 4/magic) would make the Commoner a god among men, able to shrug off blows from even the mightiest house cat.

Thieves
2010-06-20, 02:15 PM
Now that you write it that way, and if you read it out loud several times, COMMONER starts sounding like a band name.

Bang Your Heads For COMMONER! \m/

But yeah, I'd suggest a guy who gets all feats and traits that boost Animal Empathy, Gather Information and Diplomacy (Force of Personality atop that for fluffz) and Perform (instrument / oratory + stage pyrotechnics), completely dump Sense Motive, no Intimidate or Bluff. What you get is a rock'n'roll star. Or someone...

Zovc
2010-06-20, 02:29 PM
Take chicken infested and somehow get animal empathy. Get the infinite chickens to worship him as their creator.

Alternatively, end world hunger with the chickens, the praise and gratitude of a thankful nation turns him into a deity of feasting, bountiful harvests and chickens.

COMMONER
Domains: Chicken

Chicken
Domain Power: A cleric with the Chicken domain may take the Chicken Infested feat without meeting the prerequisites.
Domain Spells
1: Summon Nature's Ally I (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
2: Summon Nature's Ally II (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
3: Summon Nature's Ally III (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
4: Summon Nature's Ally IV (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
5: Summon Nature's Ally V (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
6: Summon Nature's Ally VI (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
7: Summon Nature's Ally VII (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
8: Summon Nature's Ally VIII (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
9: Summon Monster IX (May only be used to summon a celestial chicken.)

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-20, 02:34 PM
Hmm... I think Cas was a commoner before he became a god...

woodenbandman
2010-06-20, 02:36 PM
Commoner is a warforged that was reduced below zero HP. Possibly by a nuclear explosion or something. several billion years into the future, the remnants of mutated civilization unearth the commoner, postulating that he is some sort of super-being from space. millions worship him, he becomes a god.

balistafreak
2010-06-20, 03:15 PM
1: Summon Nature's Ally I (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
2: Summon Nature's Ally II (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
3: Summon Nature's Ally III (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
4: Summon Nature's Ally IV (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
5: Summon Nature's Ally V (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
6: Summon Nature's Ally VI (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
7: Summon Nature's Ally VII (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
8: Summon Nature's Ally VIII (May only be used to summon a chicken.)
9: Summon Monster IX (May only be used to summon a celestial chicken.)

What, you can't summon 1d3/1d4+1 chickens with higher levels? :smalltongue:

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-20, 03:17 PM
Oooh! Or all sorts of templated chickens! That'd be fun!

Flickerdart
2010-06-20, 03:31 PM
Pseudonatural Paragon Chicken of Legend.

Volthawk
2010-06-20, 03:36 PM
Pseudonatural Paragon Chicken of Legend.

Titanic Chicken.

Morph Bark
2010-06-20, 03:38 PM
Wouldn't the commoner gain the extra 20 feats after ascending to COMMONERhood? Thus, shouldn't there be 2 layers of the optimization: the first for the commoner's original form, and the second for the COMMONER?

Or are you assuming that the COMMONER ascended due to sheer happenstance and thus the pre-ascension form is irrelevant?

I would say COMMONER gained the other 20 after ascension, but I think the pre-ascension is irrelevant save for determining that single feat (barring racial bonus feats) that he had as well as his/her backstory.



Oooh! Or all sorts of templated chickens! That'd be fun!

Go ahead, it's fine by me. Perhaps I should edit the first post to make it more general like "lets make a 1st level Commoner god together and everything that should go with it"?

Zovc
2010-06-20, 03:57 PM
What, you can't summon 1d3/1d4+1 chickens with higher levels? :smalltongue:

I didn't take the time to look at the spells descriptions. lol

Morph Bark
2010-06-20, 04:18 PM
I didn't take the time to look at the spells descriptions. lol

Perhaps moreso something like:

Summon Chicken I: May summon a chicken.
Summon Chicken II: May summon an anarchic/axiomatic/celestial/fiendish/elemental chicken.
Summon Chicken III: May summon a dire chicken.


And so on, with various variations through templates or simple buff-ups or such.

...are there even any stats for chickens? (And whats this Chicken Infested I keep hearing about? I get the chicken-Commoner connection and I've heard it mention often in combo with this most basic NPC class, but never found it in any books myself. Anyone got the source?)

HypoSoc
2010-06-20, 07:11 PM
Regular human commoner with high constitution
1) Fill him with high constitution and fortitude boosting feats
2) He loses a bet so he has to challenge the first dwarf he sees to a drink off.
3) He sees an epic level dwarven cleric, who accepts the challenge with a laugh.
4) The already drunk dwarf gets a natural 1 compared to the commoner's natural 20 and is drunken under the table
5) Everyones' jaws drop.
6) Commoner loots a magic amulet that boosts fortitude off of the dwarf
7) Dwarf rides home in shame
8) Dwarf king is intrigued by the story, so he rides to the city, and has his servants challenge the commoner to a drink off.
9) With fortitude bonus and lucky rolls, he out drinks them.
10) King is outraged to lose so much money and challenges commoner to a drink off.
11) King poisons commoner's cup, but commoner trips and accidentally switches the cups.
12) King dies.
13) Story of commoner drinking the king to death spread.
14) ???
15) Profit Godhood

Behold COMMONER god of drunks, drinking, alcohol, and wild parties.

Flickerdart
2010-06-20, 07:37 PM
...are there even any stats for chickens? (And whats this Chicken Infested I keep hearing about? I get the chicken-Commoner connection and I've heard it mention often in combo with this most basic NPC class, but never found it in any books myself. Anyone got the source?)

Chicken Infested is in one of the Dragon mags. It's a Commoner flaw that gives you a 50% chance to draw a chicken whenever you draw any object (such as a weapon or spell component).

balistafreak
2010-06-20, 08:41 PM
Chicken Infested is in one of the Dragon mags. It's a Commoner flaw that gives you a 50% chance to draw a chicken whenever you draw any object (such as a weapon or spell component).

It's also, IIRC, a massive April Fool's Joke, but seeing as they never go out of their way to say that... :smallamused:

Morph Bark
2010-06-21, 04:26 AM
Hey, that sounds pretty interesting.

Heh, makes me think a commoner with that flaw would be the greatest enemy Link could ever face. Easily summonable Cucco Storm. :smallamused:

Say, are there any feats (or chain of feats) that could perhaps give COMMONER spellcasting or psionic powers known? I know through feats you can learn to shape soulmelds, initiate martial maneuvers and bind vestiges (and use utterances but you need 6 ranks in Truespeak for that), and there is a feat that gives a character 2 power points even if they didn't have any before, but powers known or spellcasting capability... I haven't seen that so far.

If there are feats that give stuff like bardic music, invocations, sneak attack, rage or auras like the Marshal and Dragon Shaman, that'd be even more awesome.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-21, 05:40 AM
Commoner meets his future self who has already ascended to godhood. Future Commoner helps his past self ascend.

No? Then I got nothing. I am somehow reminded of "The Life of Brian" though.

Heliomance
2010-06-21, 05:52 AM
Minor rule-breakage may be condoned, but Pun-Pun-style stuff with loopholes and the like won't be, even though Kobolds are allowed.


Okay, you're gonna have to be more specific there. Pun-pun involves no loopholes, the latest version is entirely rules legal. The level 5 version had some controversy, but there's nothing wrong with the level 1 version.

Eldan
2010-06-21, 05:53 AM
The Commoner is a gnome who just happens to look exactly like a statue of Garl Glittergold in the temple he's visiting on holiday. He is mistaken for an avatar and worshipped. The Real Garl thinks this is hilarious and raises him to divinity, making him a god of mistaken identities. However, no one ever finds out who he is, because everyone thinks he's someone else.

Morph Bark
2010-06-21, 08:53 AM
Okay, you're gonna have to be more specific there. Pun-pun involves no loopholes, the latest version is entirely rules legal. The level 5 version had some controversy, but there's nothing wrong with the level 1 version.

Pun-Pun always involves the loophole of every god and epic outsider allowing it to happen. If Pazuzu is willing to help every small shmuck that knows his name and is willing to do evil (and not even Chaotic evil) he should at least be familiar with some of the stuff that can go on. Furthermore, if the world COMMONER exists in had Pun-Pun, its likely COMMONER could only exist if he was a Kobold as well, and only after Pun-Pun eliminated any possible way of COMMONER becoming a Pun-Pun as well.



The Commoner is a gnome who just happens to look exactly like a statue of Garl Glittergold in the temple he's visiting on holiday. He is mistaken for an avatar and worshipped. The Real Garl thinks this is hilarious and raises him to divinity, making him a god of mistaken identities. However, no one ever finds out who he is, because everyone thinks he's someone else.

Bonus points for the fact that this would have COMMONER still have his name unknown so if it ever was discovered he wasn't Garl, they'd name him something generic or funny to go with the mistaken identity gig.

Minus points for misspelling his name. :smalltongue:

Heliomance
2010-06-21, 09:50 AM
Pun-Pun always involves the loophole of every god and epic outsider allowing it to happen. If Pazuzu is willing to help every small shmuck that knows his name and is willing to do evil (and not even Chaotic evil) he should at least be familiar with some of the stuff that can go on. Furthermore, if the world COMMONER exists in had Pun-Pun, its likely COMMONER could only exist if he was a Kobold as well, and only after Pun-Pun eliminated any possible way of COMMONER becoming a Pun-Pun as well.


Well, all that Pazuzu gets asked to do is provide a Candle of Invocation, which isn't a particularly unreasonable request. I don't think he'd particularly mind granting it.

And who says Pun-pun has happened up to this point? Maybe COMMONER is the first.

Morph Bark
2010-06-21, 02:24 PM
Well, all that Pazuzu gets asked to do is provide a Candle of Invocation, which isn't a particularly unreasonable request. I don't think he'd particularly mind granting it.

And who says Pun-pun has happened up to this point? Maybe COMMONER is the first.

Very well then, let us instead assume that COMMONER isn't campaign setting specific. Considering the Sarrukh is specifically from the Forgotten Realms, Pun-Pun is out.

Can we get on with it?

Lhurgyof
2010-06-21, 03:19 PM
Say, are there any feats (or chain of feats) that could perhaps give COMMONER spellcasting or psionic powers known? I know through feats you can learn to shape soulmelds, initiate martial maneuvers and bind vestiges (and use utterances but you need 6 ranks in Truespeak for that), and there is a feat that gives a character 2 power points even if they didn't have any before, but powers known or spellcasting capability... I haven't seen that so far.

Hidden Talent? It's a variant feat in the XPH

dextercorvia
2010-06-21, 05:34 PM
Say, are there any feats (or chain of feats) that could perhaps give COMMONER spellcasting or psionic powers known?

Heighten Spell
Earth Sense
Earth Spell
Sanctum Spell
Improved Krau Sigil
Magical Training (Gives some 0 level spells and Caster level 1st)
Precocious Apprentice (Apply Improved Sigil to this spell)
Use items to boost CL to 4th (Including a custom UMD item if necessary)
In your Sanctum(which is in a suitably earthy environment) you can cast at least one 5th level spell.
Take Extra Slot, gaining a 4th level slot.
You have gained a new level of spells (6th with sanctum/earthspell) so you can choose to apply your IS-Krau to a different spell. Choose one of your cantrips.

You can now cast 7th level spells.
Take Extra Slot again, gaining a 6th level slot, and again for an 8th, and one more time for a 10th level slot.

That's 11 feats used. 10 more your choice. I recommend at least one Extra Spell (you can pick up to a ninth level spell), since you have no other mechanic for learning spells. Drakehelm would probably be a good item choice.

Edit: I didn't post this sooner, since several of the feats are dependent on earlier ones.

Edit2: For items, how about Ring of Arcane Might, Orange Ioun Stone, and scroll of CL11 Magic Tatoo.

Eldan
2010-06-21, 06:06 PM
That's.... beautiful. So beautiful.

I've always loved cheese.

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 06:27 AM
Heighten Spell
Earth Sense
Earth Spell
Sanctum Spell
Improved Krau Sigil
Magical Training (Gives some 0 level spells and Caster level 1st)
Precocious Apprentice (Apply Improved Sigil to this spell)
Use items to boost CL to 4th (Including a custom UMD item if necessary)
In your Sanctum(which is in a suitably earthy environment) you can cast at least one 5th level spell.
Take Extra Slot, gaining a 4th level slot.
You have gained a new level of spells (6th with sanctum/earthspell) so you can choose to apply your IS-Krau to a different spell. Choose one of your cantrips.

You can now cast 7th level spells.
Take Extra Slot again, gaining a 6th level slot, and again for an 8th, and one more time for a 10th level slot.

That's 11 feats used. 10 more your choice. I recommend at least one Extra Spell (you can pick up to a ninth level spell), since you have no other mechanic for learning spells. Drakehelm would probably be a good item choice.

Woah. :smalleek:

I'm... I'm gonna go and check how and if that actually works. Good thing I have Races of Stone and Destiny and... Sanctum Spell/Precocious Apprentice/Magical Training/Extra Spell are prolly in Complete Arcane/Mage, I would presume.

dextercorvia
2010-06-22, 01:22 PM
Before you take Extra Spell, you need some spells on your class list. So, lets say we take Arcane Disciple (Luck) this adds the spells from the Luck Domain to our Commoner spell list of arcane spells. (This only requires you to choose an appropriate class if you have more than one class granting arcane spells, we have none.) Now take Extra Spell (Miracle) and then Extra Slot as many times as you like (you have 8 left). Each of these gives you an 11th level slot. You prepare spells, so you can prepare Exalted spells in your lower level slots.

Edit: Magical Training is in one of the FR books.

Edit2: If you pick Acid Splash as one of your 0 level spells, you can trade in one of your Extra Slot's for a reserve feat and prepare a heightened Acid Splash in your 8th level slot to spam 9d6 ranged touch attacks. I'd rather have the extra Miracle, though.

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 05:27 PM
After having read through the feats, on that ground, it would be legal. However, items can't make you qualify for feats unless they cause a permanent change in you that stays even when the item is long gone, like with the tomes and manuals that give inherent ability bonuses. As such, I don't think that works. :smallfrown:

Does the psionics angle perhaps work though?

Eldan
2010-06-22, 05:35 PM
On the other hand, items can give feats. That could be a way around that problem, I think?

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 05:42 PM
On the other hand, items can give feats. That could be a way around that problem, I think?

That it could. I was hoping to bring COMMONER to life without necessary need for items for his "build", but I suppose he could always have the starter feats (Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Sanctum Spell, Improved Krau Sigil, Magical Training, Precocious Apprentice) and use items to get high-level spells.

So far as I have seen now, COMMONER could become capable of binding up to level 3 vestiges (though gaining only 2 abilities), shaping soulmelds and getting 3 martial maneuvers and 1 stance, and then now spellcasting (though for beyond 0/1st-level stuff COMMONER needs items). What's left is psionics and certain class features, or simply boosting his rolls and stats like crazy.

I dunno, could be more stuff out there. I am very little on optimization knowledge or feat knowledge and haven't gleaned very much into very many books. Hence why I obviously needed help like this.

elonin
2010-06-22, 05:55 PM
How about a god who was killed and reincarnated into the form of a commoner? Either way he could just be someone who was turned to stone in a memorable pose and ends up being worshiped. Happened in a cry for dawn comic and heck even in one of the planet of the apes movies they worshiped a nuke (for the wrong reasons).

Heliomance
2010-06-22, 06:22 PM
After having read through the feats, on that ground, it would be legal. However, items can't make you qualify for feats unless they cause a permanent change in you that stays even when the item is long gone, like with the tomes and manuals that give inherent ability bonuses. As such, I don't think that works. :smallfrown:


Actually, I'm pretty sure they can. If you ever lose the item, you lose the benefits of the feat though.

dextercorvia
2010-06-22, 09:16 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure they can. If you ever lose the item, you lose the benefits of the feat though.

They can. In fact I forgot to change the Scroll of CMT to an extended one, and you should buy several. That is the only way to keep your Extra Slots. They become active again if you regain the prereq's after the lapse though, so you don't have to worry about one dispel magic ruining your thing.

Or you could use one Miracle everyday to replicate CMT.

Morph Bark
2010-06-23, 04:31 AM
How does that work exactly then? I've never seen something in the rules that support such use. Could you perhaps direct me to the source for this?

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 03:24 AM
Psionics are a little hard to get as a 1st level guy, as far as I know.

Going for Psionic talent+Wild talent, followed by the Illithid heritage feats, practised manifester can get you decent abilities at level 1, but you need to know a single power.

Perhaps using that feat which allows you to get the supernatural abilities of a polymorph form?

Dante

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 02:43 PM
How does that work exactly then? I've never seen something in the rules that support such use. Could you perhaps direct me to the source for this?

Like this?


Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character canít use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

The feat doesn't care how you meet the prerequisite, just that you do. Once you have taken it, you have the feat. If you lose the prerequisite, you can not use the feat, but it is still there. So, once you meet the prerequisite again, you can use the feat again.

Page 46 of the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv06302008.zip) has this to say:


A feat sometimes requires you to have a certain ability
score, which is the case with Two-Weapon Fighting (it
requires Dex 15). A character has, say, Dex 13, but wears
an item, in this case gloves of Dexterity +2, and now her Dex
score is 15. Can she take the feat and have it be active only
when she wears the item?

Actually yes, she could take the feat, but she would lose the
use of the feat if, for whatever reason, she loses the bonus from
the item.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 06:21 PM
Oh ks, so above ruling means you can take abilities etc if you have the temp score.

That makes psionics easier to get, I'll post up tonight my strategy.

Dante

dextercorvia
2010-07-02, 09:29 PM
Hidden Talent from the XPH p67 can get you a single 1st level power. It's actually an expanded version of Wild Talent. Credit to Optimystic who mentioned it in another thread.

Psionic Talent gets you extra PP (2+#of Psionic Talent feats you already had).

Expanded Knowledge replaces extra spell, but I'm having trouble finding the psionic equivalent of Sanctum, etc.

Cadian 9th
2010-07-03, 02:55 AM
Hidden Talent from the XPH p67 can get you a single 1st level power. It's actually an expanded version of Wild Talent. Credit to Optimystic who mentioned it in another thread.

Psionic Talent gets you extra PP (2+#of Psionic Talent feats you already had).

Expanded Knowledge replaces extra spell, but I'm having trouble finding the psionic equivalent of Sanctum, etc.

There is, there's some places you can go to get all this good stuff. You could prolly give commoner max ranks in UMD and pretend you are a psion. Win.

Commoner could get an elemental envoy, granting him a 3hd form to posses. That means he can suddenly do alot of wierd stuff.

People, remember. Commoner can use UMD to emulate class features, so thereore has Wild shape, therefore entering a boatload of prestige classes. Commoner can also use Incarnum to boost his PP and blast his PP into the sky. All he needs is UMD.

Dante

Morph Bark
2010-07-03, 04:06 AM
People, remember. COMMONER can use UMD to emulate class features, so thereore has Wild shape, therefore entering a boatload of prestige classes. COMMONER can also use Incarnum to boost his PP and blast his PP into the sky. All he needs is UMD.

Dante

Yes, except for the fact he is still stuck at level 1.

If it weren't for the fact there are tons of feats available at level 1 and some can be taken potentially an infinite amount of times, I wouldn't have put a limit on the amount and simply gone around asking what feats to give him.

I can't check my XPH so quickly, but there is no Hidden Talent feat in the SRD, just Wild Talent. :smallconfused:

Volthawk
2010-07-03, 06:46 AM
Yes, except for the fact he is still stuck at level 1.

If it weren't for the fact there are tons of feats available at level 1 and some can be taken potentially an infinite amount of times, I wouldn't have put a limit on the amount and simply gone around asking what feats to give him.

I can't check my XPH so quickly, but there is no Hidden Talent feat in the SRD, just Wild Talent. :smallconfused:

Yeah. I don't think it's in the SRD because Hidden Talent isn't in the feat section.

dextercorvia
2010-07-03, 07:06 AM
Yes, except for the fact he is still stuck at level 1.

If it weren't for the fact there are tons of feats available at level 1 and some can be taken potentially an infinite amount of times, I wouldn't have put a limit on the amount and simply gone around asking what feats to give him.

I can't check my XPH so quickly, but there is no Hidden Talent feat in the SRD, just Wild Talent. :smallconfused:

Hidden Talent is like Wild talent, except it explicitly allows the character to choose 1 1st level power off of any list to use in conjunction with the the 2 pp.

Another_Poet
2010-07-03, 01:31 PM
I wouldn't do it with feats. I would give the Commoner the following backstory elements:

+Is born to a race that has a pressing political need for tales of gaining an avatar, saviour, demigod or new god (such as being oppressed and occupied long-term by a foreign military);

+Is born to a parent or parents who have a pressing social need to fabricate stories around the birth of their child (such as conceiving out of wedlock and/or being too poor to afford to raise a child);

+Is born under auspicious astrological occasion, or on an auspicious holiday;

+Is born away from the parents' actual home, allowing for rumours and fantasies to be spread by the parents without being criticized as untrue by those who know them;

+Is born in a city so crowded that the inns are full and rich/influential people may bump up against the poor parents due to circumstance.

This should create a situation where a lot of factors line up to support the public image of the character as a divine being. Give him a high Charisma and some Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sleight of Hand ranks and he should be able to keep the stories going with the majority of the crowds he addresses over his life.

ap

edit: if he preaches pacifism then you have an excuse for him to never gain XP and level up :)

Ramza1987
2010-07-03, 02:13 PM
COMMONER is Jesus???

OMG that is a win, at least in my mind.

Another_Poet
2010-07-03, 02:36 PM
COMMONER is Jesus???

OMG that is a win, at least in my mind.

Well the other way to build Jesus is with caster levels but that won't fit the OP's request of Commoner1.

I intentionally tried to de-Jesus my recipe for success however because of forum rules about real world religion discussion.

By the way I support your username and all FF Tactics references.

Morph Bark
2010-07-03, 03:48 PM
I wouldn't do it with feats. I would give the Commoner the following backstory elements:

It isn't the feats that make COMMONER ascend though, that is moreso a side-effect of it.

With certain tweaks and additions any real-world religious/mythological story could be made fitting though. No doubt for many DnD gods this was the case when their origin stories were made up.