Underwater D&D 3.5

[Zolkabro]

A while ago I made an underwater D&D setting, but it never really got off the ground. So recently I put a lot more work into it, and this was the result.

General Info

Building is still on the seabed, upright like our buildings. However the architects have more freedom, for instance an entrance could lead to a tiny ground floor, which could widen out to the width of house on the next floor, and the house would still support it's weight perfectly. Towers could twist and turn however they want.

Waste biodegrades naturally in the water

Underwater plants are eaten. There is no need to cook with flames.

Rock and coral are used for houses.

The world on land is thought of as barbaric, the way we consider animals.

There are no humans in this setting. All races are aquatic creatures that breathe underwater. There are no airtight bubbles or anything like that. I am considering having high level adventuring on the surface, but humans are no better than high level random encounters.

All creatures are Aquatic, and there is an epic feat that enables you to become Amphibian.

Gods

Raphite, Shield of the Many Pronounced "RA-phite"
http://ecociety.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/blog-dying-coral-frozen.jpg
Raphite has no form, but this is a reef of blessed coral.
Raphite is the god of coral. His territory is the Reef Sea, a sea where everything is made of coral. All his worshippers are utterly devoted to him, for he uses his unique powers to help them, no matter what their alignment, class, or race are. These unique powers shape rock and water. Most of the gods have control over water, but Raphite can shape water and stone however he wants, turn water to stone, and stone to water. All of his followers have protection from harm, for their very few forces that can break through solid rock. Raphite is a a consciousness pulsing inside coral, he has no body.
True Neutral Deity. Domains: Earth, Healing, Protection, Water, Blackwater

Aksékhasdos, Keeper of Secrets Pronounced "AK-say-KHAS-dos"
http://fantasy.mrugala.net/Paul%20Kidby/Paul%20Kidby%20-%20Disque%20Monde%20-%20The%20Great%20A%20Tuin%20%282%29.jpg
Akséchasdos in one of his many manifestations.
Aquatic beings are gifted with racial memories due to what? It is a question Land creatures have often puzzled over. Few know that it is all due to the kindness of Aksékhasdos, god of memories. He is the oldest of the gods, he sees all, he remembers all. And worthy beings are granted this extraordinary ability, so that they can learn the lessons their ancestors learnt, and become the wisest of fishes. His power is such that he has followers in every region of the oceans. Aksékhasdos takes the form of an enormous turtle.
Lawful Good Overdeity. Domains: Good, Law, Knowledge, Magic, Water, Ocean

Aemorkrust, Hunter of the Fearful Pronounced "Ay-MORE-crust"
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/993/993438/interstellar-marines-20090610072843608_640w.jpg
Aemorekrust is scarred from a life of war.
Aemorkrust is one of several Evil gods, but none strike fear into the heart like he does. He is the god of the hunt, but he does not care any mortal being. He regards them as prey waiting to be hunted, as a foxhunter would regard a fox. He does not hunt because he needs the meat to live on, but for the enjoyment. His favourite part is when he has his prey cornered, when he can hear it's heart, beating in terror, when he can smell it's fear. And he loves the bloodlust it gives him. Aemorkrust takes the form of of a black and silver shark, with eight crocodile legs.
Lawful Evil Overdeity. Domains: Death, Destruction, Evil, War, Water, Blackwater

Plocamix, Lord of Chaos Pronounced "Plo-KAM-ix"
http://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/tentacles.jpg
Plocamix eating breakfast
Plocamix is the god of chaos, for that is all he is himself. He has no care for anything, he just wants to have fun. He is like a spoilt child. He does not torment or annoy others out of spite, but simply to give amuesment. He is like a toddler, who has not yet learnt right from wrong, but just wants to enjoy himself. His domain is a land of toys, it is like a child's toybox, only extradimensional, to provide Plocamix with fun. He takes the form of a ball the size of a man, with thousands of tentacles coming out.
Chaotic Neutral deity. Domains: Chaos, Luck, Trickery, Water, Storm

Kragani, Bringer of Tempests Pronounced "Kra-GA-ni"
http://winterstormuk.co.uk/Winter%20Storm%20Site/thunder-9895.jpg
Kragani manifesting
Malicous god of bad weather, who delights in rustling up the fiercest tempests to cause chaos. He has power over every aspect of the weather tha makes things difficult. With a wave of his hand he can cause turmoil in the deep, as he creates gales, thunder, lightning, and rain. He rarely manifests, but when he does you will always know, for everything goes dark, and then a lightning strike will appear under water where he is, and stay there, crackling with thunder. Because of this blinding lightning nobody knows his true form except his brother, Nragaki.
Chaotic Neutral deity. Domains: Chaos, Destruction, Water, Storm, Blackwater

Nragaki, Bringer of Peace Pronounced "Nra-GA-ki"
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/10972/wm/pd75367.jpg
Nragaki manifesting
Kind god of good weather, who delights in making beautiful sunny days. He has power over every aspect of the weather that people enjoy. With a wave of his hand he can cause laughter in the deep, as he creates sunshine, a pleasent breeze, and lights up the oceans. He rarely manifests, but when he does you will always know for everything goes dark, and then a shaft of light will appear underwater where he is. Because of this blinding sunlight nobody knows his true form except his brother, Kragani.
Lawful Neutral deity. Domains: Law, Healing, Water, Ocean, Seafolk

Kraken, Gaurdian of the Deep Pronounced "KRA-ken"
http://c2.api.ning.com/files/iMKc1qmdBrov3k109ld7AraY6dpIVl4CdVviKfv6lyPdfWBCHE O6v7JSmfPsB6ThzX96QAHCUadvPj1M5wm01gkOwTn2Xk/kraken.jpg
Kraken destroying a ship
Kraken is like a huge octupus, but with 64 tentacles instead of 8. He has slimy dark blue skin, and 8 bright green eyes. As he waves his tentacles around, he sends waves of energy through the deep, rippling the water wildly. He is a determined gaurdian of the sea, and any land creatures that dare to enroach his territory will be sent speedily back home. And if they actually kill any water creatures, then their boat will be sunk, and they will be drowned. He is fiercely loyal to the sea, and completely merciless. Anyone who directly threatens the deep will be killed as painfully as possible.
True Neutral deity. Domains: Protection, Travel, Water, Storm, Ocean

Jormungard, Destroyer of Seas Pronounced "YOR-mun-gard"
http://symbolom.com.br/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jormungand.jpg
Jormungard's head
Nobody has seen Jormungard's entire form and lived to tell the tale, but from the accounts of distant sightings people have managed to put together a probable account of Jormungard. Covered in green-blue iridescent scales, Jormungard is a huge sea serpent, with tentacles coming out of it's tail, and dozens of heads at the other end. The tentacles have suckers so powerful they can suck a creature's head off. He is usually coiled up, but when he stretch out he can go round the entire world and still put his tail in his mouth.
True Neutral deity. Domains: Destruction, Travel, Water, Storm, Ocean

Leviathan, Devourer of Oceans Pronounced "Le-VIE-a-than"
http://www.hideyoshi-ruwwe.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/Orange-Leviathan_small.jpg
Leviathan, about to start a feeding frenzy
The leviathan is a huge creature, one of the largest to roam the oceans. It is not an especially bad creature, but it is cursed with an insatiable hunger. The sight of anything edible will send it into a feeding frenzy, and it will massacre many only to satisfy it's hunger. After it has done this, it will ften weep for the lives it took, because it simply cannot help it. Keep away from the leviathan, because while it longs for someone to talk too, a friend, or just some company, when it sees you it will go into it's feeding frenzy, and there will be no stopping it eat you.
True Neutral deity. Strength, Trickery, Water, Storm, Ocean

Races

Cephalofolk
www.enworld.org/wiki/images/9/9b/Illithid.jpg
A Cephalofolk casting a spell.
Cephalofolk are tentacular, humanoids, however they are more fish than Human. A Cephalofolk has no lips, simply a hole for a mouth. However surrounding the mouth are many hideous tentacles.Cephalofolk live on brains. Their tentacle's sharp points pierce their prey's skull, and the poor victim's brains are sucked out by the Cephalofolk's mouth. With short tentacles for fingers, and webbed feet these creatures thrive in water. Their swimming can reach amazing speeds, and even if you were fast enough they would be extremely difficult to catch. For despite their lack of eyes their tentacles can sense the tiniest vibrations in water.

Medium size
Can swim
+2 dexterity, +2 wisdom, -2 Charisma
60 movement
+4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks when in water. A Cephalofolk who merely passes within 6 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if s/he were actively looking for it.
Automatic Languages: Squid, Aquan, Common
Natural attack: Brain feed 2d3
Usually worship Kraken
Swim speed 80
Favoured class: Aquamancer


Nix
http://greywolf.critter.net/images/gallery/fairies-and-more/2009-06-02-tag-dtc-winter-sprites.jpg
A tribe of Nixies.
Nixes are water beings, sometimes mischevious, sometimes kind, but they are fiercely territorial, and if anything ventures into a Nix's waters without permission the Nix will make sure they never see the surface alive again. Nixes can look similar to humans when they want to, but a Nix's true form resembles a fully grown man the size of a baby, with a sea green, long, salty beard. Their skin is a paler, yellowish, peaceful green. But their eyes are always a piercing shade of electric green. Some Nixes look just like as described, only blue where others are green. All Nixes love music.

Small size
+2 dexterity, +2 charisma, -2 strength
Outsider type
Can swim
30 movement
Nearly always True Nuetral
Automatic Languages: Aquan, Common
Usually worship Plocamix
Swim speed 60
Favoured class: Bard


Kokrulis
http://www.funnypictures.net.au/images/8-legged-turtle-nature-freaks1.JPG
A baby Kokrulis, before it has developed full armor.
Peaceful, old, and wise before their time, the Kokrulis are the wisest race in the oceans. They see mysteries where others see normality, they solve puzzles which have perplexed generations, and they rarely speak, but when they do they speak wise words, and you would do well to listen. Aksékhasdos has, in return for their eternal faith, granted them the gift of eternal memory. They never forget anything in their long, long lives. They have 8 legs, covered thick, scaly, tortiose shell pattern skin, with hard turtle shell in some places in their body. They have shells on their back like a turtle, shells on their head like a helmet, and shells on their knees and elbows.

Medium size
+2 wisdom, +2 intelligence, -2 dexterity, -2 charisma
30 movement
+4 natural armour
Usually worship Aksékhasdos
+10 maximum HP
Darkvision
+4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks when in water. A Kokrulis who merely passes within 4 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if s/he were actively looking for it.
Automatic languages: Kokrulish, Turtle, Aquan, Common
Can swim
Stability: Kokrulises gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped.
Swim speed 40
Favoured class: Wizard


Krazanio
http://www.cosmicbuddha.com/adam/archives/samebito.jpg
An unarmored Krazanio
Closely related to the Xizanio, and yet on the other side of the oceans, Krazanio are a dangerous, warlike species, well known for their tactics of pulverizing first, and asking the corpses questions later. They have huge, bulky bodies, and their skin is made of kelp and seaweed. They make themselves armour out of shellfish; with limpet shell chainmail; oyster helmets, kneecaps, and elbowcaps; and the rich make armour from Saepia shells.

Large size
+2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 dexterity, -2 intelligence
30 movement, despite large size
+4 to armour checks
+ 2 Craft (armour)
Weapon Proficiency: Trident, club
Automatic languages: Zanio, Aquan, Common
Can swim
Usually worship Kragani
Favoured class: Barbarian
Swim speed 50


Xizanio
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/cthulhu-3a.gif
A civilian Xizanio
Closely related to the Krazanio, and yet on the other side of the oceans, Xizanio are a sly, sneaky species, well known for their tactics of assassinating enemy leaders. They have slight, nimble bodies, and their skin is made out of kelp and seaweed. Their dextrous swimming, flawless aquabatics, and their effortless speed, make them extremely versatile, good in battle, travelling, peace, dancing, and showbiz.

Small size
60 movement
+2 dexterity, +2 intelligence, -2 strength, -2 constitution
+4 to dodge checks
+8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A Xizanio can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered.
Weapon proficiency: Trident, dagger
Automatic Languages: Zanio, Aquan, Common
Can swim
Usually worship Nragaki
Swim speed 70
Favoured class: Rogue


Saepia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/4/47/20090104033213!Octopus_shell.jpg
A Saepia shedding it's childhood shell, soon to grow a new, more armorlike one.
Saepia are odd combinations of shellfish and octopi, resulting in a cuttlefish like creature. The diminutive Saepia are thought to be distantly related to the Cephalofolk, which while they do look alike is completely untrue. The facial tentacles of the Saepia are vestigial and much shorter than those of a Cephalofolk. Most curiously their skin is capable of rapidly changing color and texture to blend in with their surroundings. Saepia also have the ability to shoot ink at other creatures

Medium size
+2 Wisdom, +2 Constitution, -2 Strength
40 movement
Racial ability: May camouflage as a move action and gains concealment against enemies more than 5 feet away.
Racial attack: Can shoot ink, blinding opponents.
Automatic Languages: Squid, Aquan, Common
Can swim
Usually worship Raphite
Swim speed 60
Favoured class: Cleric


Sahuagin
http://images.geeknative.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sahuagin-2.png
An epic sahaguin
The barbaric Sahaguin are a mistrustful race, due to their dark and bloody history. They have suffered many unfair wrongs, but their suffering drove them insane. Losing sight of their benelovent orogins, the Sahaguin turned on those who had betrayed them, and destroyed them. Since then Sahaguin have become a force to be feared in the world. Their four legs and four arms make them fearsome in battle, for they can parry and attack at the same time, making them the bane of even the fiercest warriors, Their snakelike head is full of sharp teeth, and their humaniod body is covered in green and yellow scaly skin.

Medium size
30 movement
+2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 charisma
Darkvision
Can wield two weapons at the same time with no penalty. Penalties apply if 3 or 4 weapons are wielded.
Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4).
Rake: A sahuagin gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a sahuagin gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual -4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple. A sahuagin must begin its turn grappling to use its rake attack; it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
Automatic Languages: Sahuagin, Aquan
Favoured Class: Fighter
Usually worship Jormungard and Leviathan.
Swim speed: 60


Classes

Aquamancer
Aquamancers are an arcane class which focuses mainly on controlling water.
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+3|Bonus Feat, Tribe|3|1|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||4|2|

3rd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+4||4|2|1|

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Bonus Feat|4|3|2|

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+5||4|3|2|1|

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5||4|4|3|2|

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+6||4|4|3|2|1|

8th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|3|2|

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+7||4|4|4|3|2|1|

10th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+7||4|4|4|4|3|2|

11th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+8||4|4|4|4|3|2|1|

12th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+8|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|

13th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+9||4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|

14th|
+7|
+6|
+6|
+9||4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|

15th|
+7|
+6|
+6|
+10||4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|

16th|
+8|
+7|
+7|
+10|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2

17th|
+8|
+7|
+7|
+11||4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|

18th|
+9|
+8|
+8|
+11||4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2

19th|
+9|
+8|
+8|
+12||4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3

20th|
+10|
+9|
+9|
+13|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|[/table]Hit Dice: 1d4
Weapon proficiency: Aquamancers are proficient with club, quaterstaff, light hammer, and light mace, leather armour, and no shields. Shields interfere with spells that have somatic components.
Spells: Aquamancers have to prepare spells in advance. To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the aquamancer must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10+ the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an aquamancer’s spell is 10+ the spell level + the aquamancer’s Wisdom modifier. An aquamancer starts play with five 0 level spells, and three 1st level spells. For each point of Wisdom bonus the aquamancer has, they know one additional spell of your choice.
Bonus Language: An aquamancer may substitute Aphrosic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. Aphrosic is the language of the sea, the noise made by the waves.
Bonus Feats: At 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level, an aquamancer gains a bonus feat.
Class skills: All aquamancers have the following skills:
Knowledge, concentration, spellcraft, tumble, profession, spot, listen, search, heal, gather information, craft, disguise, hide, survival, use magic device, disable device.
Tribes: Every aquamancer is a member of a tribe. From this tribe they learn special spells in addition to the ones that all aquamancers learn. An aquamancer can be a member of two tribes, but they have a -2 penalty to all checks relating to both tribes.

Ripple Watchers - An aquamancer of the Ripple Watchers can feel the water as part of their own body, and therefore feel any disturbances in it, allowing them to gather information in many ways.
Water Whittlers - An aquamancer of the Water Whittlers can shape and harden the water into objects, allowing them to create things like armour, shields, weapons, and sometimes constructs.
Wave Whirlers - An aquamancer of the Wave Whirlers can move the waves however they want, allowing them to create storms and turbulence.
Aquatic Artists - An aquamancer of the Aquatic Artists can shape water to create false images and illusions, allowing them to deceive their opponents.
Marine Medics - An aquamancer of the Marine Medics can use water to repair wounds in the skin, allowing them to heal their comrades.
Sea Thieves - An aquamancer of the Sea Stealers can take all water out of an area, creating bubbles of air, allowing them to take away the water that all sea creatures require to live.

Spell tiers: With some spells, when you reach a higher level you can learn a better version of a lower level spell. When this happens you instantly forget the old version, and you can learn a new spell of the level of the old version next level. So, for example, if an aquamancer learns a spell at level 3, and then learns a better version at level 5, when he reaches level 6 he can choose an extra level 3 spell to replace the old one.

Monsters

EDIT: The monsters cannot fit in this post due to word limit constraints. Find them in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10592733&postcount=84) post.

See Stormwrack for other monsters and classes.


------------

None of these are set in stone, if anyone has suggestions I can rewrite them.

Currently, the main thing I need help with is a combat system, as I am not sure how one would fight in an environment where you can't just go left, right, forwards, and backwards, but up and down too. This has been resolved. Thank you.

Can anyone think of a name for "???"? This has been resolved. Thank you.

Now that I have uploaded the monsters, I would very much like feedback on them ASAP.
When we have done that, I would like to deal with the environment.

Please, speak your mind. Don't be afraid to be harsh, I want this to get as good as we can make it.

[Aeolius]

Welcome aboard! :) I've been running undersea games for awhile, now. My current game is a chat-based adventure, Heirs of Turucambi (http://web.mac.com/aeolius/turucambi/) .

I have found the best inspiration for subaqueous campaigns come from real life sources, such as Discovery's Blue Planet series (http://store.discovery.com/detail.php?p=85139&v=discovery) and DK Books OCEAN (http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-American-Museum-Natural-History/dp/0756636922/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b) . Of course keeping a saltwater reef aquarium is a given, but that requires a great deal of patience.

[Zolkabro]

Welcome aboard! :) I've been running undersea games for awhile, now. My current game is a chat-baed adventure, Heirs of Turucambi (http://web.mac.com/aeolius/turucambi/) .

I have found the best inspiration for subaqueous campaigns come from real life sources, such as Discovery's Blue Planet series (http://store.discovery.com/detail.php?p=85139&v=discovery) and DK Books OCEAN (http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-American-Museum-Natural-History/dp/0756636922/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b) . Of course keeping a saltwater reef aquarium is a given, but that requires a great deal of patience.

Thanks.
What is your combat system for Heirs of Turucambi?

[Aeolius]

Thanks.
What is your combat system for Heirs of Turucambi?

The game uses 3.5e/d20, mixed with a few supplements here and there.

[Zolkabro]

The game uses 3.5e/d20, mixed with a few supplements here and there.

I know that, I mean what are the differences in the combat system because you are underwater? Is it any different?

[Aeolius]

A lot of it is taken from here and there. Rules for aerial combat work just as well underwater; where foes can come at you from above and below. Rules regarding line of sight and obstructed viewing work well, for murky waters. Rules for adventuring in varying climes work well, when one has to dive into the depths. In short, I fudge a lot of it. ;)

[Eurus]

Is there a reason for the odd stat bonuses/penalties? No normal race has +3/-3 to anything, it's always even numbers because that way it will affects everyone's ability modifier the same way, as opposed to a +3 that can either be +1 to an ability modifier (normal) or +2 (a bit of a big deal) depending on the base score.

[hamishspence]

Rules for aerial combat work just as well underwater; where foes can come at you from above and below.

Would the maneuverability rules also apply- to make combat more realistic when some of the creatures are big and unwieldy?

A megalodon, for example, or a leviathan?

[GoblinGilmartin]

The thought you put into this would make a great Campaign settign, you should present this to WotC

[Debihuman]

You really don't need a new combat system, you just have to think in three dimensions. It's a lot like aerial combat if you've ever played with that. It just requires a bit more diligence to keep an eye on things. See pages 92 and 93 of the DMG for rules regarding underwater combat.

There is a way to adapt most races to an underwater setting. See Unearthed Arcana for variant rules, or just consult the SRD for open content regarding this here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#aquaticRaces

Some spells work differently underwater and some don't work at all. The freedom of movement spell definitely comes in handy underwater.

There are a lot of source books for underwater settings. I've been collecting these for a while: Stormwrack is a must. Other good ones include The Deep by Mystic Eye Games (out of print but well worth tracking down), and Into The Blue by Bastion Press.

A lot of books touch on underwater themes such as Savage Species, which has a template for a half-merrow as well as underwater equipment, or Arms and Equipment Guide, which has rules for exotic aquatic troops and equipment like the Gnome Submersible.

If you haven't checked out the Wizard's Of the Coast's 3rd edition archives, I recommend it hightly. You should look for a series called "Far Corners of the World" and take a look at those items in The Lost Coast -- magic items, monsters and spells specifically for underwater use.

If you want more underwater monsters, I recommend the following: Monster Geographica: Marsh & Aquatic published by Expeditious Retreat Press and Monsters Of The Boundless Blue published by Goodman Games.

And don't forget the standard Aquatic Pantheon:

Blibdoolpoolp (kuo-toa)

Deep Salashas (sea elves)

Eadro (locathah, merfolk)

Ilxedren (ixitxachitl)

Panzuriel (evil sea creatures)

Persana (tritons)

Piscaethces (aboleths)

Sekolah (sahuagin)

Surminare (selkies)

Trishina (dolphins, sea elves)


Debby

[Aeolius]

Debby - excellent response. :)

I can't think of anything to add, save for perhaps pointing out similar threads over at wizards.com (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19557726/Underwater_Campaign) and EN World (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/257105-3-x-aquatic-database.html) .

[Aeolius]

Okay... so I thought of something to add ;)

As for my own spin on things, I have added several of my favorite encounters - hags. The main protagonist is a spirit hag (a slain hag trapped in the region of dreams), the main antagonist is the blackwater hag (undead amalgamation of three hags reanimated in undeath by blackwater), and several new hags have been encountered, from my take on the shellycoat (aquatic greenhag) to her daughters the sea hags and shoal hags. An incarnum-based reef hag and pseudonatural fish hag have also made appearances.

Of course I have populated the realm of liquid space with a few additional beasties; aquatic variations on a few standard monsters that are now both familiar and unfamiliar.
http://web.me.com/aeolius/turucambi/Inspirations.html

I have set my current game (chat-based) on Oerth, the World of Greyhawk, utilizing many of the “Mysterious Places” of the setting; Turucambi Reef, The Sinking Isle, and the Jungle of Lost Ships to name a few. My prior game (play-by-post) was set on the same world, near the Pinnacles of Azor’alq.

One can also draw additional inspiration from sites such as http://www.underwatertimes.com/ and http://deepseanews.com/ , as well as watching the underwater webcams at the Monterey Bay Aquarium http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/cam_menu.aspx .

[Debihuman]

Aeolius, do you have any stats to go with your undersea races? I didn't see any on your site.

Debby

[Aeolius]

Aeolius, do you have any stats to go with your undersea races? I didn't see any on your site.

Because no one has wanted to play one, yet. :smallwink: Still, by using standard beasties; goblin, kobold, orc, bugbear, etc, one can either use other aquatic variations as a guide; scrag (troll), merrow (ogre), koalinth (hobgoblin), etc., slap the aquatic subtype on them, or use aquatic racial variants as a guide.

I'm all about easy :smallwink:

[Fenrazer]

The thought you put into this would make a great Campaign settign, you should present this to WotC

They have already pitched ideas on how to do underwater combat and stuff similar, but you are right. I did a massive campaign that was underwater nearly half the time and I wish they did more with it. Some of the stuff they talk about is in the DMs Guide, as I'm sure your all aware of, but its worth mentioning I feel. Like the way they describe how fire spells manifest underwater without a hitch, like the FireBall actually becomes an exploding ball of steam...which in my opinion is just nasty. Steam burns = suck. :smallwink:

[Aeolius]

... the FireBall actually becomes an exploding ball of steam...which in my opinion is just nasty. Steam burns = suck. :smallwink:

I actually added another option, Phosphyre - the Waters Which Burn (taking a cue from the Rimefire Witch in Frostburn). Envision bioluminescence which burns beneath the surface.

[Zolkabro]

Many people seem to be talking about converting land things into water, or using standard aquatic things. This is not what I want to do, I would like to make a completely new setting, with new races, gods, classes, and spells, not just slap aquatic infront of various things.

I have also edited a few things in view of your contributions.
Thanks!
Sometime soon I will do the classes.

[Aeolius]

I would like to make a completely new setting, with new races, gods, classes, and spells, not just slap aquatic infront of various things.

That was my approach as well, but using an element of the familiar. An undersea campaign is already strange enough, for most. I've been running them since 1998, so I've seen a lot of resistance to the idea.

Take for example my iblishi, or sea kobolds (referenced in my link about inspirations, above). You can use the standard kobold stats, which are easily accessible, then either add the aquatic subtype or aquatic racial variant info. Then let your imagination take hold. Envision the amalgamation of a blue-dot stingray and kobold; wing-flaps, barbed tail, and all. By taking a bit of behavior from the stingray, it is more than just "slapping an aquatic subtype" on a kobold, Though for ease of use, that's how I start.

And I did change a few of the familiar undersea races. My locathah, for example, are a hermaphroditic race born into a caste system, as they are colored in the manner of larger angelfish. My sea hags are the daughters of shellycoats and merrow (aquatic ogres). The aquatic ogres also have merrow magi (ogre magi) members.

Yes, aquatic-themed classes will follow, I have worked on a blackwater ninja, deepsong bard, and phosphyre witch to name a few. And then there are PrCs like the Envenomed (poisoned by sea creatures) and Fishermen (who only dine upon dire fish and have become feral) to contend with.

[hamishspence]

Maybe draw inspiration from sea creatures for the common monster's traits- especially if the sea creature has similar ones.

Trolls and their regeneration, for example, could draw heavily from the starfish.

[Debihuman]

Many people seem to be talking about converting land things into water, or using standard aquatic things. This is not what I want to do, I would like to make a completely new setting, with new races, gods, classes, and spells, not just slap aquatic infront of various things.

I have also edited a few things in view of your contributions.
Thanks!
Sometime soon I will do the classes.

Let me address some of your concerns.

First, converting land things into water things is fun and there's no reason to toss standard aquatic things because they should be usable. That's the whole point of the OGL. This is exactly why I've been collecting 3.5/D20 books for the past few years as it all works together.

Second, your introduction description of this setting is fairly sketchy. No humans even though you mention that there are lands settled above. I don't recommend throwing out stuff until you've fleshed out the world more fully.

Third, you opened the door to using standard aquatic things because you use Mind Flayers (which isn't even open content) and Sahuagin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sahuagin.htm), if you don't want standard creatures, don't include them either.

Your deities are off to a good start but you are missing the meat of what a deity does and how it should be presented. This should be helpful: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2142719&postcount=71
I like that the the deities have a connection with the races you created.

Don't assume that any idea that you have is completely new. Turtle races aren't exactly new but the Kokrulis have 6 legs which is their most unique feature.

The nix are similar to the nixies in MM (See Sprite here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm).

Now, getting to the meat of things.

Races shouldn't have odd numbers for modifiers. This has been discussed many times, but the main reason for this is that +/- 2 modifier = +/- 1 ability. You don't get any changes for +/- 1 to an ability. +1 to 10 is an 11 which has the same modifier as a 10. -1 one on 11 is 10 and the modifier doesn't change anything. This is simply a matter of good game design.

Debby

[Aeolius]

No humans even though you mention that there are lands settled above.

In my game humans are able to take two unique PrCs that make them eligible for my game... Anchor or Bait. :smallbiggrin: Though seriously, so long as it has a natural swim speed and can breathe underwater without the use of magic... and it fits in the World of Greyhawk, I'm game.

[Zolkabro]

Let me address some of your concerns.
Thanks!


First, converting land things into water things is fun and there's no reason to toss standard aquatic things because they should be usable. That's the whole point of the OGL. This is exactly why I've been collecting 3.5/D20 books for the past few years as it all works together.
Okaay... I sort of have an obsession with trying to be as wildly original as I can. Even if I convert some land things to water, I will fiddle with them, and I will fiddle with normal aquatic things as well. And I am definetely sticking with the gods that I've got.


Second, your introduction description of this setting is fairly sketchy. No humans even though you mention that there are lands settled above. I don't recommend throwing out stuff until you've fleshed out the world more fully.
As I said before, some campaigns may venture into the land above, but the humans are basically high level random encounters. They are no better than animals.


Third, you opened the door to using standard aquatic things because you use Mind Flayers (which isn't even open content) and Sahuagin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sahuagin.htm), if you don't want standard creatures, don't include them either.
I have fiddled with them, and I didn't realise Mind Flayers aren't open content. I'll change the name.


Your deities are off to a good start but you are missing the meat of what a deity does and how it should be presented. This should be helpful: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2142719&postcount=71
I like that the the deities have a connection with the races you created.
I was creating my deities to the same format that I saw on a different homebrew. I did not realise there was a standard format. I will fix that eventually, but not yet.


Don't assume that any idea that you have is completely new. Turtle races aren't exactly new but the Kokrulis have 6 legs which is their most unique feature.
And beards. And shell all over their body. But yes, I am aware of that. As I said, if I do add in already existing material, I fiddle with it and make major changes. And basing it on an animal is very different from basing it in something from D&D.
Do you think he should have 8 legs? I've decided on 8 legs.


The nix are similar to the nixies in MM (See Sprite here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm).
I did not realise there was already a D&D entry for it. I was just basing it on the creature in folklore, which the Sprite obviously does too.


Now, getting to the meat of things.

Races shouldn't have odd numbers for modifiers. This has been discussed many times, but the main reason for this is that +/- 2 modifier = +/- 1 ability. You don't get any changes for +/- 1 to an ability. +1 to 10 is an 11 which has the same modifier as a 10. -1 one on 11 is 10 and the modifier doesn't change anything. This is simply a matter of good game design.

I wanted to have different modifiers for some, so at first I had 2 and 3. Then someone pointed out that this is a bad idea, so I changed it to 1 and 2. Now that has been pointed out as a bad idea too, I am at a loss as to what to do. I want different modifiers, but 2 and 4 are too far apart. Does anyone know what I could do?


I am also about to add some more Gods, and edit some stuff. Done. Please check back in the original post. Also, can anyone think of a name for "???"? I am stuck.

[hamishspence]

I have fiddled with them, and I didn't realise Mind Flayers aren't open content. I'll change the name.


Cephalofolk?

Also, I'd swap Kraken with ??? and call ???, the serpent deity, something else- maybe Ouroborous, or Jormungand. Just "The World Serpent" might do.

[Zolkabro]

Cephalofolk?

Also, I'd swap Kraken with ??? and call ???, the serpent deity, something else- maybe Ouroborous, or Jormungand. Just "The World Serpent" might do.

Done. Thanks.

[Aeolius]

I sort of have an obsession with trying to be as wildly original as I can.

Have you considered looking at some of the beasties from Discovery's Future is Wild (http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/future-is-wild/future-is-wild.html) ? Debby's suggestion of Goodman Games Monsters of the Boundless Blue (http://www.goodman-games.com/4001preview.html) also has quite a few original critters.

You might also look at some of the recent articles about the possibility of life on Europa: Could Jupiter Moon Harbor Fish-Size Life? (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091116-jupiter-moon-life-europa-fish.html) , Europa's Water World (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explorer/4083/Videos#tab-Videos/08037_00)

[hamishspence]

Done. Thanks.

There's one instance of "mind flayer" in the Cephalofolk entry- and one instance of "Kraken" in the Jormungard entry. However, that's easy to fix.

Do you think they should have beaks, like in older editions? Or should they keep the mouth?

[radmelon]

All the rules for underwater combat are explored in Stormwrack, a book you should definitly get if you're doing an underwater campaign.
And you have no excuse for not knowing the Nixie already exists, as it is in a core rulebook.:smallfrown:

[Aeolius]

There's one instance of "mind flayer" in the Cephalofolk entry- and one instance of "Kraken" in the Jormungard entry. However, that's easy to fix.

In my games I added the sykraken and krakidan, half-kraken born by aboleth and human respectively. I also had the sea flayer, an aquatic illithid of sorts inspired by the blue-ring octopus.

[Debihuman]

Kokrulis needs a little tweaking. Here's what I recommend (my suggestions are in bold)


+2 wisdom, +2 intelligence, -2 dexterity, -2 charisma
30 movement
+4 natural armour
Usually worship Aksékhasdos
Stability: Kokrulises gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped. Darkvision
+4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks when in water. A Kokrulis who merely passes within 4 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if s/he were actively looking for it.
Automatic languages: Kokrulish, Turtle, Aquan, Common
Swim speed 40.


I would recommend that you minimize the number of languages so that the PCs are sure to be able to communicate with each other. Aquatic is not a language; Aquan is the language.

Creatures that can swim should have an automatic Swim speed.

You should note which creatures a have the Aquatic subtype (and thus breathe only water), which have the Aquatic subtype with the amphibious special ability which allows them to breathe both air and water and which are simply fully air-breathing (and would not have the Aquatic subtype even if they live solely in the water).

Debby

[Aeolius]

You should note which creatures a have the Aquatic subtype (and thus breathe only water), which have the Aquatic subtype with the amphibious special ability which allows them to breathe both air and water and which are simply fully air-breathing (and would not have the Aquatic subtype even if they live solely in the water).

Undead and constructs also work remarkably well in a subaqueous setting.

Here's a thought. If anyone wants to get together for a real-time chat, I already have an IRC channel set up for my Sunday game. Just send me a PM and we'll try to coordinate a time. I'll be in that room tonight at 9pm (eastern), for a non-game chat, but I tend to lurk there 24/7 otherwise.

[Knaight]

Where is the room?

[Aeolius]

it's on the irc.otherworlders.org server

[Zolkabro]

Kokrulis needs a little tweaking. Here's what I recommend (my suggestions are in bold)


+2 wisdom, +2 intelligence, -2 dexterity, -2 charisma
30 movement
+4 natural armour
Usually worship Aksékhasdos
Stability: Kokrulises gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped. Darkvision
+4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks when in water. A Kokrulis who merely passes within 4 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if s/he were actively looking for it.
Automatic languages: Kokrulish, Turtle, Aquan, Common
Swim speed 40.


I have made these corrections. Thank you.


Creatures that can swim should have an automatic Swim speed.
What is the average swim speed? What speeds are considered fast and slow?


You should note which creatures a have the Aquatic subtype (and thus breathe only water), which have the Aquatic subtype with the amphibious special ability which allows them to breathe both air and water and which are simply fully air-breathing (and would not have the Aquatic subtype even if they live solely in the water).
I only want really high level adventurers to go on land or above water, so is there a way to make creatures become amphibious at level 16, or 20?

I will do the classes soon.

[hamishspence]

Make it the capstone of a prestige class, or a high level spell.

Items that the party could only expect to find (or buy) at high level might help.

[Aeolius]

The highlight of my beach trip last week (Topsail Beach, NC) was something I experienced alone. I was walking into the ocean to swim with my wife and children, who were playing in the surf. I looked out at the waves, smelled the salt in the wind, and smiled. "I am a citizen of the ocean." I said aloud, quoting Mark Harris in "Man From Atlantis". At that exact moment a dozen stingrays swam around my feet. It was magical.

[Zolkabro]

The highlight of my beach trip last week (Topsail Beach, NC) was something I experienced alone. I was walking into the ocean to swim with my wife and children, who were playing in the surf. I looked out at the waves, smelled the salt in the wind, and smiled. "I am a citizen of the ocean." I said aloud, quoting Mark Harris in "Man From Atlantis". At that exact moment a dozen stingrays swam around my feet. It was magical.

That's amazing.

[Debihuman]

What is the average swim speed? What speeds are considered fast and slow?

See Monster Manual page 298 in the chart on the right it shows typical speed. Slow Swim speed is 40 ft., Normal is 60 ft. and Fast is 80 ft. [Water naga for example is 50 ft.].

This is the truly hard part of race and monster creation. The rules are really spread out [PH, DMG and MM). I have several sources that help me find things quickly, the online SRD here: http://www.d20srd.org. Also, some rules have been updated and those changes can be found in the Rules Compendium.

I generally don't critique homebrew races for balances as that's not my forte.

If you like feel free to use my cecaelia: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4216596.

Other monsters for underwater include my pearl and coral dragons:

coral dragon: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5304401&postcount=1

pearl dragon: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4574437&postcount=1

Edit: There is an airbreathing spell in Stormwrack.

Debby

[Aeolius]

I have also found this to be quite handy: Monster Index (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters&tablefilter=aquatic&tablesort=5)

I have coral and pearl dragons as well. though mine are a bit different: "As a gift to her daughters of elven blood, the midnight hag devised dragons unique to their domains. For the sylvan woodhags and subterranean greyhags, a host of draconic creatures appeared. For the salt hag, daughter from union with sea elves, an alliance was forged with the humble dragon turtle. Through the powers of her shapeshifting magics coupled with an infusion from her mystic heartstone, the first of the hagstone dragons; coral, pearl, and abalone emerged."

[hamishspence]

Dragon 345 had Sea Serpents (Crested, Spiked, Lantern)- which followed the dragon progression from wyrmling to great wyrm.

Megalodons in MM2 seem awfully fast (Swim speed of 120 ft). Give it the Run feat and Rapid Swimming, and it can outpace a speedboat.

[Aeolius]

Dragon 345 had Sea Serpents (Crested, Spiked, Lantern)

That reminds me of what I did to a deepwater eye-of-the-deep (seaholder); I made it like an angler with its eye stalks acting as lures.

[hamishspence]

That would be an interesting way of doing it.

Despite having lanterns, there's no actual mechanical effect, for the Dragon Magazine Lantern Serpent, and the Anauroch City of Shade Shadow Sea Serpent.

[Zolkabro]

I appreaciate all the page numbers that you are giving me, but I have always used the online versions. Page numbers are useless to me. EDIT: This has been sorted. I have obtained a copy of the Monster Manual. I'm probably going to keep using the online SRD for most things, though.

Swim speed, favoured class, and a few other things are now on the first post.

I think I will add your idea to the list of non-playable creatures, Aeolius. I haven't written that list down yet, but I have several things in mind for it.

[hamishspence]

One of the things I noticed in Elaine Cunningham's Starlight & Shadows series, was that underwater fighting involved taking advantage of the eddies stirred up by a target's own sudden movements- letting an enemy's swing "suck" your own weapon in past his defenses.

Might an underwater Manuever school, for martial classes, reflect this sort of thing?

[Debihuman]

I have coral and pearl dragons as well. though mine are a bit different: "As a gift to her daughters of elven blood, the midnight hag devised dragons unique to their domains. For the sylvan woodhags and subterranean greyhags, a host of draconic creatures appeared. For the salt hag, daughter from union with sea elves, an alliance was forged with the humble dragon turtle. Through the powers of her shapeshifting magics coupled with an infusion from her mystic heartstone, the first of the hagstone dragons; coral, pearl, and abalone emerged."

Aeolius, have you ever posted the stats for your hagstone dragons?

Debby

[Aeolius]

Aeolius, have you ever posted the stats for your hagstone dragons?
http://www-cache.daz3d.com/store/item_file/431/image_medium.jpg
It's on my queue... along with Ecology of the Shellycoat, Ecology of the Midnight Hag, “Seas & Trees: Ecologies of the Woodhag, Salthag, and Greyhag", Necrology of the Spirit Hag, Ecology of the Krampus (my take on the krampus), Ecology of the Stormhags, Tsantsa: Shrunken Heads, reboots of Turucambi, The Sinking Isle, and the Jungle of Lost Ships, “Nature of the Beast” as a viable d20/OGL campaign, and my urban module series: Slipshod, Servant Unseen, Action/Reaction, “The King is a Fink!”, and Ooze Your Daddy?

Now I just need an evil clone or the dual-brain mutation ;)

[Zolkabro]

Race pictures added.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any good pictures of a sahaguin underwater, and of course they all had just 2 legs, unlike my verion which has 4.

[Aeolius]

Race pictures added.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any good pictures of a sahaguin underwater, and of course they all had just 2 legs, unlike my verion which has 4.

You could always start with a 3D model like DAZ3D's gillman (http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/gillman?item=9131&_m=d) and modify it.

[Zolkabro]

You could always start with a 3D model like DAZ3D's gillman (http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/gillman?item=9131&_m=d) and modify it.

How would I modify it?

EDIT: Deity pictures added. Some pictures, like Krazanio, Cephalofolk, and Kraken, seem not to have worked. Anyone know why?

[Debihuman]

I could see all of them except for Kraken -- might be you have a spacing issue in the image line.

Debby

[Aeolius]

How would I modify it?
DAZ Studio (http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/daz_studio3?_m=d) (Free) or Poser (http://smithmicro.com/poser) ($$$).

They have octopoid models HERE (http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/the-cephalinoid?item=6587&_m=d) and HERE (http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/aqualien-octomen?item=8420&_m=d)

[Zolkabro]

I'm really sorry I haven't been doing anything, but I currently have a truckload of exams to work through, and it has left very little time for homebrewing.

Anyway, the aquamancer has been put into the first post. It is a class I homebrewed, but apart from it I think the rest will stick to the SRD.
What do people think? Am I missing anything? Are there any particularly bad features? Don't be afraid to be harsh, it is my first homebrew class and I don't expect it to be perfect.

Spell list coming soon.

[Debihuman]

Your Aquamancer needs HD, BAB, Saves and Spellcasting progression. A table would be helpful. If you don't know how to post tables use this and fill in the appropriate sections.


20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level| BAB |Fort | Ref | Will | Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-

2nd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-

3rd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-

4th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-

5th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

[Zolkabro]

Your Aquamancer needs HD, BAB, Saves and Spellcasting progression. A table would be helpful. If you don't know how to post tables use this and fill in the appropriate sections.


20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level| BAB |Fort | Ref | Will | Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-

2nd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-

3rd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-

4th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-

5th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Done. Anything else?

EDIT: I have added the Domains to the first post.

[Debihuman]

Domains look good but slightly repetitive. You should look to see if there are a few more that fit in.

There is Water as a domain, but also "Ocean" and "Watery Death" from Player's Guide to Faerun. While those aren't open content, you can still refer to them. Alternatively, you could make up a few that are specific to your world.

Debby

[hamishspence]

Watery Death is a prestige domain.

Sea Mother Whip (Underdark) grants access to it. While its supposed to be open to Umberlee as well, I can't find the Umberlee PRC that grants it (Waveservant, in Faiths & Pantheons, doesn't)

Stormwrack has the Storm domain, Blackwater domain, and Seafolk domain (and the Ocean domain).

Ocean domain is also in Complete Divine, and Spell Compendium.

[Zolkabro]

Watery Death is a prestige domain.

Sea Mother Whip (Underdark) grants access to it. While its supposed to be open to Umberlee as well, I can't find the Umberlee PRC that grants it (Waveservant, in Faiths & Pantheons, doesn't)

Stormwrack has the Storm domain, Blackwater domain, and Seafolk domain (and the Ocean domain).

Ocean domain is also in Complete Divine, and Spell Compendium.

I didn't realise there were so many. I just looked through the ones in the Player's Handbook.

I will add more soon.

[Aeolius]

Does anyone else keep saltwater aquariums? If you are running an undersea adventure, I highly recommend it, as it can be an endless source of inspiration.

Some basic starter tips can be found here (http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=313) , with a focus on How to Set Up a Reef Aquarium (http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=39) .

First, begin with an aquarium, preferably 30 gallons or larger, as water parameters (salinity, pH, etc) are easier to manage in larger tanks, Aquariums typically require a stand and possibly a canopy. Set up the proper water pump(s) and plumbing. different types of tanks require different water currents; a species-specific aquarium like a seahorse tank requires a low flow, while a fish-only tank may require a high flow. Over time, you may require additional equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors, or wave makers with additional pumps known as power heads. Next turn to lighting; a fish-only tank may only require standard high-output fluorescents, but a reef tank filled with corals will need metal halide lighting or compact fluorescents, depending on the size and depth of the tank. Some lighting systems incorporate metal halide fixtures, compact fluorescent actinic lighting (a blue hue preferred by corals), and low intensity lunar lighting for night viewing. Some include built-in timers to turn them off at night. Depending in the intensity of your lighting, you may require a chiller to cool the water. Otherwise, you may need a heater, to maintain the proper water temperature.

Second, add a bit of saltwater, either premixed from your local aquarium store or prepared from a salt mix. You’ll need a hydrometer to manage the proper salinity. This is a good time to check your plumbing; hoses, bulkheads, and fitting for leaks.

Next, you may want to add a substrate such as live sand, which is teeming with beneficial bacteria that breaks down nitrogen-based waste made by marine life, or a pre-bagged commercial blend such as Arag-Alive. Reef tanks and some fish-only tanks will benefit from the addition of liverock (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=393) , chunks of rock covered in sponges that are not only attractive, but beneficial as well. Liverock provides a natural food source for some fish, aid in the breakdown of waste produced by aquarium inhabitants, and create a foundation for live corals or decorations in a fish-only aquarium. Liverock and live sand help to “cycle” the ammonia and pH in an aquarium, a crucial stage before adding livestock. Liverock will experience some die-off during harvesting and shipping. One may purchase “uncured” liverock, which will need to cure in an aquarium for several weeks before fish are added, or “pre-cured” liverock which has already undergone this step. Uncured liverock typically has more diversity in sponges and other marine life. Curing liverock will require the use of a protein skimmer and frequent water changes, typically 20% of the content of the aquarium.

Finish filling the tank with saltwater and fire up the pumps, lighting, power heads, heater/chiller, and other equipment. Enjoy your aquarium for a few weeks just as it is, watching the liverock as it changes. You may notice a bloom of brown algae, as the tank "cycles". Otherwise, take a water sample to your local fish store once a week, so they may determine when the tank has cycled.

To keep a reef tank clean, many aquarists include the addition of "clean-up critters" (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=420+1805) , marine life which feeds on algae, detritus, and other less desirable aspects within the tank. Tank cleaners can include hermit crabs, snails, certain sea stars, shrimp, abalone, and more. After waiting for the tank to cycle, waiting for the liverock to cure, one also waits a bit, after adding the clean-up crew. Reef tanks require a phenomenal amount of patience.

At long last, it is time to add fish, corals, and whatever else you want to put in your tank, assuming you have checked the compatibility of species and do not overcrowd your aquarium. This is where it gets a bit frustrating. Some fish cannot be put in reef tanks, as they will eat other occupants, corals, or both. Some fish are territorial and cannot be kept with others of their own kind; angelfish, tangs, butterfly fish, and the like are often like this. Some fish require a specialized species tank. Seahorses, for example, are slow eaters and cannot be kept with more aggressive fish.

It may be best to set up several aquariums, just to be safe. ;)

[Zolkabro]

Does anyone else keep saltwater aquariums? If you are running an undersea adventure, I highly recommend it, as it can be an endless source of inspiration.

Some basic starter tips can be found here (http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=313) , with a focus on How to Set Up a Reef Aquarium (http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=39) .

First, begin with an aquarium, preferably 30 gallons or larger, as water parameters (salinity, pH, etc) are easier to manage in larger tanks, Aquariums typically require a stand and possibly a canopy. Set up the proper water pump(s) and plumbing. different types of tanks require different water currents; a species-specific aquarium like a seahorse tank requires a low flow, while a fish-only tank may require a high flow. Over time, you may require additional equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors, or wave makers with additional pumps known as power heads. Next turn to lighting; a fish-only tank may only require standard high-output fluorescents, but a reef tank filled with corals will need metal halide lighting or compact fluorescents, depending on the size and depth of the tank. Some lighting systems incorporate metal halide fixtures, compact fluorescent actinic lighting (a blue hue preferred by corals), and low intensity lunar lighting for night viewing. Some include built-in timers to turn them off at night. Depending in the intensity of your lighting, you may require a chiller to cool the water. Otherwise, you may need a heater, to maintain the proper water temperature.

Second, add a bit of saltwater, either premixed from your local aquarium store or prepared from a salt mix. You’ll need a hydrometer to manage the proper salinity. This is a good time to check your plumbing; hoses, bulkheads, and fitting for leaks.

Next, you may want to add a substrate such as live sand, which is teeming with beneficial bacteria that breaks down nitrogen-based waste made by marine life, or a pre-bagged commercial blend such as Arag-Alive. Reef tanks and some fish-only tanks will benefit from the addition of liverock (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=393) , chunks of rock covered in sponges that are not only attractive, but beneficial as well. Liverock provides a natural food source for some fish, aid in the breakdown of waste produced by aquarium inhabitants, and create a foundation for live corals or decorations in a fish-only aquarium. Liverock and live sand help to “cycle” the ammonia and pH in an aquarium, a crucial stage before adding livestock. Liverock will experience some die-off during harvesting and shipping. One may purchase “uncured” liverock, which will need to cure in an aquarium for several weeks before fish are added, or “pre-cured” liverock which has already undergone this step. Uncured liverock typically has more diversity in sponges and other marine life. Curing liverock will require the use of a protein skimmer and frequent water changes, typically 20% of the content of the aquarium.

Finish filling the tank with saltwater and fire up the pumps, lighting, power heads, heater/chiller, and other equipment. Enjoy your aquarium for a few weeks just as it is, watching the liverock as it changes. You may notice a bloom of brown algae, as the tank "cycles". Otherwise, take a water sample to your local fish store once a week, so they may determine when the tank has cycled.

To keep a reef tank clean, many aquarists include the addition of "clean-up critters" (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=420+1805) , marine life which feeds on algae, detritus, and other less desirable aspects within the tank. Tank cleaners can include hermit crabs, snails, certain sea stars, shrimp, abalone, and more. After waiting for the tank to cycle, waiting for the liverock to cure, one also waits a bit, after adding the clean-up crew. Reef tanks require a phenomenal amount of patience.

At long last, it is time to add fish, corals, and whatever else you want to put in your tank, assuming you have checked the compatibility of species and do not overcrowd your aquarium. This is where it gets a bit frustrating. Some fish cannot be put in reef tanks, as they will eat other occupants, corals, or both. Some fish are territorial and cannot be kept with others of their own kind; angelfish, tangs, butterfly fish, and the like are often like this. Some fish require a specialized species tank. Seahorses, for example, are slow eaters and cannot be kept with more aggressive fish.

It may be best to set up several aquariums, just to be safe. ;)

I really appreciate all the effort you have put into that post to help me set up an aquarium, but I just don't have the space. It sounds really interesting to watch these fishes grow and live, but there is absolutely no space in my house.

I will go and look at some public aquariums soon, probably at the weekend, for inspiration.

Sorry.
I feel all guilty now, you put so much work into that post.:smallfrown:

On an unrelated note, I now have a copy of Stormwrack!!!

[Debihuman]

On an unrelated note, I now have a copy of Stormwrack!!!

I think it is an invaluable resource. I am also fond of 3rd party books as well. Admittedly, I'm such a geek that I have a whole file on my hard drive dedicated to an aquatic campaign.

Debby

[Aeolius]

Admittedly, I'm such a geek that I have a whole file on my hard drive dedicated to an aquatic campaign.

So, when do we start? ;)

[Zolkabro]

Admittedly, I'm such a geek that I have a whole file on my hard drive dedicated to an aquatic campaign.

Same. Everything I put on this thread I also put on a computer file. That means that when this thread eventually dies I will still have everything.

Anyway, Stormwrack domains added.

EDIT: Woohoo! 3 pages! My last homebrew nobody was interested, and it didn't even finish one page! Thanks for making this a success, you have all made my homebrew far better than I could've on my own.

Also, Aeolius, what room is your IRC thing?

[Debihuman]

So, when do we start? ;)

Unfortunately, I don't have time to DM. However, I have files on my computer that pertain to nothing but things aquatic: monsters, items, classes, races etc. I have waay too much stuff.

Debby

[Aeolius]

Unfortunately, I don't have time to DM. However, I have files on my computer that pertain to nothing but things aquatic: monsters, items, classes, races etc. I have waay too much stuff.

I know the feeling. My Sunday night game is easier to manage, when my kids are back in school (I have 8 kids). Still, as a DM I enjoy the act of creation and my hags get cranky of they don't get game time, so I try to make due. ;)

Though, one of these days I'd like to try out my own undersea PC. He's a spellstitched swarm-shifter dread necromancer emancipated spawn half-scrag sea kin lacedon with aboleth grafts. ;)

[Zolkabro]

Speaking of which, when this thread is finished it would be good if all the people who contributed majorly too it were to take part in a game in this setting. I'll DM, and we can all play this setting.

We have to finish it first, though!

[Aeolius]

...it would be good if all the people who contributed majorly too it were to take part in a game in this setting....We have to finish it first, though!

Finish it? Where's the fun in that? ;)

As for my own undersea game, the PCs began in the region of Turucambi Reef (Oljatt Sea, Oerth), then traveled north to the Sinking Isle. Next they might investigate the Jungle of Lost Ships, though a side Trek to the Darksea might not be unexpected. I also have a faraway sea placed on the interior surface of a Dyson Sphere awaiting their arrival, at a higher level.

[Zolkabro]

My main problem is, most of Stormwrack is based around a setting where most of the action happens on ships. In my setting, EVERYTHING is underwater. This invalidates half of Stormwrack's contents.

Does anyone know a book with an underwater setting that is more like mine?

[Aeolius]

Does anyone know a book with an underwater setting that is more like mine?

Mystic Eye Games "The Deep", or perhaps "Sea of Fallen Stars" (2e).

Prerequisites for PCs in my game are that they have a natural swim speed and the ability to breathe underwater without the use of magic. Very little time is spent above the surface.

[Aeolius]

Also, Aeolius, what room is your IRC thing

Check your PMs :)

[Debihuman]

My main problem is, most of Stormwrack is based around a setting where most of the action happens on ships. In my setting, EVERYTHING is underwater. This invalidates half of Stormwrack's contents.

Does anyone know a book with an underwater setting that is more like mine?

"The Deep" by Mystic Eye Games is out of print so you'll have some searching to do to get a copy.

Just out is "Sunken Empires" by Open Game Design and you can buy the pdf for about 10 bucks from places like Paizo.com and RPGNow.com. It's very good and for Pathfinder so it's 3.5 compatible.

Debby

[Aeolius]

"The Deep" by Mystic Eye Games is out of print so you'll have some searching to do to get a copy.

I did some digging on the mortality.net forums:

"I'm the writer of the book, and I can tell you that in attempting to cover so many aspects of the underwater environment as comprehensively as possible, lots of pages had to be cut in the final edit. I also turned in a very lengthy manuscript, which added to the problem. Due to a compressed end-layout and post-writing production schedule, some of the references to material that later had to be edited out were missed in the final edit. That was certainly mostly my fault, for turning in such a lengthy manuscript.

The pricing was dictated by the expenses of printing a hardback with such a long page count. In retrospect, perhaps, it should have been released as a two-parter, or substantially reduced in content.

As to the pricing on the spine...again, as writer I had no control over the layout and cover design process, but I'm sure your complaint has been noted by Mystic Eye and they will rectify the situation for future releases, if they find it to have been an unpopular design choice." - Susannah Redelfs

(from this thread: http://www.mortality.net/board/read.php?TID=7948 12/20/2003)

[Debihuman]

I've looked for errata on The Deep, but I think that Mystic Eye Games went out of business before it was written.

Debby

[Zolkabro]

Well, I can't find the Deep anywhere so is there anything else that is (preferebly) free to download?

[Debihuman]

Well, you can try a Google search. That's pretty much what I do. I've already raided everything WotC put up for free on their website. You should check their 3e archives for free material. There is a LOT of free material.

You should also check other websites for free material. Many publishers give out free web enhancements for their products. Kobold Quarterly has some free material. The EnWorld website has a ton of free stuff in the Creature Catalogue. http://www.enworld.org/cc/index.php

RPGNow.com has free pdf products on their website. They occasionally have sales, and around the holidays, they give away free material. You can also download previews of products in many cases. I have a bunch of free previews that I can reference.

Paizo.com also has previews and free stuff. You can look at their message boards for free homebrew too.

Debby

[Deathanyl]

I found this site from this related thread as I'm finally 20 years later putting my underdepth (my underwater realm) onto computer format for publishing and distribution. I see your looking more at a Neptune like world devoid of land, i didn't go this route. Some of the Aquatic races can't go surface, but some do and those are the traders, and meddlers in and with the land folks, who are looked down on as dull witted and weak (breathing air makes one dumb) and living under water gives them all +2 STR.
some races were mentioned and are pulled from the original ol' monster manual, i noticed triton's were not mentioned, they should be and be your good/ power base. Mer folk, and sahuagin were mentioned, locath, nixie, Etc. I have only 9 unique races, i did like the cuttlefish guy, but am a firm believer in the ilithid's evil and power and so in most realms such a close looking race would be open season. I when building any world (on my 9th now lol) try to think of the evolution of the races in what state they are when the games are to be played, the water is no different if anything it can be worse as it's 3d so depth comes into play :)

my unique races are world unique, one is called the Idian, the makers of humans and powerful spell casters but not in the fey sense (Anti-fey) they are true humanoid and same height as humans of the land, this was the only cross over race, and better then a sea elf as I find elves lame.
I have Enchanados, dolphin shape changing men based off the Boto dolphin legend in our earth's history, a Fish like race which grow gar like cows, and are able to go etheral at will and which came from the elemental plane of water according to Aboliths who have been asked.
Octanary: Octopus like men with a longer torso and 2 thumbed tentacles, they are telepathic and able to blind fight including in Ink and magical darkness. 3 Aquatic Dragon species, 1 tyrannical, 1 druidism (filling that gap and having wildlife as a weapon), and One which is very deep and vulnerable to light. I species of kelp people (Yays), they can change into several forms made of the plant like state and can hide with 100% invisibility in natural surroundings, they are isonic and telepathic.
Neu-teeties are part worm part eel with 4 arm/hand like appendages which are boneless, they live in shells and are practitioners of illusion, often looking as the animal who would normally live in the area or shell, often they are used as pets, guards and Spies max INT 1/2 of Human maximum. they have Bite for D10 as natural weapon, and swim faster then all other races in size ratio.
The last one i had to remove back in the day, i'm thinking of re-including it for my up coming weekly game they have two Idian's one who has lost his memories and so excellent quest and segway to putting them into the water as a party as they group started on the surface and 3 of 5 can breath under water... the last race was a Shelled Shark abomination , only ogre in size it had a tough natural AC and great natural weapon abilities from long sharp thick claws to it's 3 rows of ultra sharp teeth, it was originally speculated the idian also made these monstrosities as there soldiers to have them turn against them, as they are salt water only it is a large reason Idian communities are not in the ocean floors in any great number. (in a all water world though would not the whole world be one kind or another of water...?)

Sorry I was late in joining and replying, do any folks here play older or home brewed game styles other then 4e, 3e? All my stuff is all generational, but personally I play 1st ed with THACO, and no saving throws old trenches Style, find it's easier then the massive rule books for new child players as i have 3 and they all play, I find in 4e it's just a board game, and takes away the imagination visualization aspect of the game which is why it's a brain game... i have a nice online randomizer and was thinking of starting to play on a Scype like system does any here have such experience?

[Aeolius]

Sorry I was late in joining and replying, do any folks here play older or home brewed game styles other then 4e, 3e? All my stuff is all generational, but personally I play 1st ed with THACO, and no saving throws old trenches Style, find it's easier then the massive rule books for new child players as i have 3 and they all play, I find in 4e it's just a board game, and takes away the imagination visualization aspect of the game which is why it's a brain game... i have a nice online randomizer and was thinking of starting to play on a Scype like system does any here have such experience?

Welcome aboard (overboard?)!

My first undersea game was "Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'alq", a 1e Play-by-Post (in the days when 2e was on the game store shelves). When 3e came along I liked what I saw and decided to so something unexpected; I changed the game from 1e to 3e on the fly (try THAT with 4e).

My current game is "Heirs of Turucambi", a 3.5e/d20 OGL chat-based game. I have also been thinking of running a Pathfinder/Cerulean Seas game via MapTool.

[Deathanyl]

Thank ya thank ya.

I see some of you are of like minded I'd love to see your underwater cities and campaigns, I've got like 6 on computer format I'd trade... I play 2 games or more a week for like 6-8 hours... (I'm spoiled my wife says):smallcool:

I'm pretty much 1 e or No e, as I play very early 70's/ style with some 2e like THACO, never really picked up saving throws, or the modular scene. Love to design my own stuff... I digress... I tend to do that :smallsmile: Any way... I found the site as i have 2 of the 4 players already being from my home world's sea and was starting to pull out some old stuff made in the early 90's and thought I'd check out what else has come along. I looked at the official stuff... they take a lot of juice out of it, and none is truly for Aquatic races in an all aquatic world. If I don't do the aqua campaign I have with my players I'd be down with joining one or doing one online... haven't got to play in years and if it was like a fixed time I'm a user of the VOIP :smalltongue:

I prefer an imagination and creativity with goal type of game over the 3 hour combat scene for one encounter

[Aeolius]

I prefer an imagination and creativity with goal type of game over the 3 hour combat scene for one encounter

Agreed. My game is role-play heavy and combat light, with an emphasis on story over stats.

As for aquatic races, I tend to use existing beasties as a base, then look to nature for inspiration, for example: Inspirations (http://web.me.com/aeolius/turucambi/Inspirations.html)

[Deathanyl]

nice site lay out. i didn't deal so much with true nature as mythical... in the aquatic races i designed, and I have a non evolution worlds, the gods created what life exists... keeps it easy. But I hear the lack of a desire to make the races of the sea being more then just the word "Sea" in front of the standard races. with aqua lung

[Dazdya]

In an underwater campaign, I would focus less on races and classes, and more on the environment. The ocean itself can make the campaign, and then the little details (such as races) will follow automatically.

I am not an expert on the sea, just writing stories here (disclaimer).

What happens on the surface of the ocean doesn't seem important to the campaign, but I beg to differ. Storms don't do any damage, but they darken the 'sky'. Light only penetrates the top layer of the sea, so it's very significant in the campaign. The ocean surface constitues the weather. Maybe ships are even considered stars, and used for astrology. Light is up, dark is down.

Speaking of which, the reef people live on a mountain. Without reef, there's either vasty nothingness or dark depth. It probably seems like the reef is the only safe place in the world. Note to self: watch finding Nemo again.

With the light comes food. The reef attracts hunters all the time, but it's not all about light. There's also the tides. I am not sure what effect they have, but they are the easiest way to make the sea world more alien, and the players more interested in the environment. Maybe there are plants that release their spores only on a full moon flood, or something like that. Maybe that's how the reef people predict when the ships will come. Maybe tides change the currents.

The currents are a major influence. The sea is an everchanging environment, but the currents supply a drop of logic, of consistency in all that. I would suggest using different currents over and under each other, depending of course on how deep the characters go.

Water is heaviest at 4 degrees celsius. That means both colder and warmer water lies on top of that. Not only the light changes with depth, but also temperature. Now that we already have light, tides, currents and temperature, the ocean is becoming very unpredictable indeed.

The dark is of course a very tempting questing target. Having seen documentaries of dead whales sinking to the ocean floor, where they are slowly eaten by bacteria, I see the ocean floor as some sort of spirit place where people go to meet their ancestors, the ones who sank. A shark has to keep swimming or he sinks. Imagine what else is there? Note to self: watch deep rising again.

There are plenty of other features I would explore. Underwater lava streams, maybe that's where the sea floor produces new ... things? Icebergs must be interesting places from below. Which leads me to fresh water.

Wherever a river finds the sea, the fresh water turns brackish with the tide. The same must be true in reverse. Here is a massive story hook, if we find out how to use it. Rivers sometimes change course. How possible woud it be if an underwater colony worked for years to make this happen? It would spark wars indeed. And that's even without the foul-smelling freshwater-people creating trouble. Icebregs are made of fresh water, are they colonies of the river people? I would definitely use that difference.

This post has been rambling a bit, but the basis is this: the environment is far more interesting that the races, classes and monsters. If you don't use that, then all you will have in the end is a normal campaign set underwater.

Thank you for reading.

[Aeolius]

Having seen documentaries of dead whales sinking to the ocean floor, where they are slowly eaten by bacteria, I see the ocean floor as some sort of spirit place where people go to meet their ancestors, the ones who sank.
There was a website for Ocean Research and Conservation Association (ORCA) which featured an undersea webcam, the Eye-In-The-Sea (http://www.teamorca.org/cfiles/eyeinthesea.cfm) . They placed the webcam deep in the waters off Monterey Bay and trained it on the carcass of a pig. Over the weeks, you could watch the hagfish, crabs, and other critters reduce the pig to a scattered mass of bones.


Wherever a river finds the sea, the fresh water turns brackish with the tide. The same must be true in reverse.
I just came across the term smolting (http://www.holar.is/aquafarmer/node21.html) , the other day.

[Debihuman]

The revised Cerulean Seas Underwater Campaign Setting by Alluria Publishing for the Pathfinder game now cites to The Deep in its Open Game License. It's great for underwater campaigns as opposed to sailing above water.

It's got a ton of open content and Pathfinder is similar enough to 3.5 that using it isn't difficult to use.

It's not free though. I bought my pdf from Paizo for about 20 bucks.

Debby

[Aeolius]

The print version isn't free, either, but the color in the illustrations really make for a dazzling presentation.

I doubt I could convince the players in my current 3.5e/World of Greyhawk campaign to convert the game to the Pathfinder/Cerulean Seas ruleset, mainly because of the investment in new gaming materials. It's easy to balk at a $20 supplement, when one is in an online game run in a chat-room, never mind requiring the purchase of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide.

Granted, the thought of starting a second campaign had occurred to me. ;)

[Zolkabro]

Hello!
A while ago, I stopped coming on this forum, and I apologise if this meant that you were checking for updates on here on vain.
I must admit, however, that I am both surprised and grateful that this thread is still going. Again, I apologise for not paying attention to that, but that ends now! :smallbiggrin:

I have done quite lot of adding to the homebrew privately on my computer, and I will start editing that into the first post when I ahve posted this. But for now, I'm going to address some points made in my absence.


In an underwater campaign, I would focus less on races and classes, and more on the environment. The ocean itself can make the campaign, and then the little details (such as races) will follow automatically.

I have had many ideas in my head about the setting, but I have not put any into action because this is my first ever homebrew of an entire world. I have therefore been sticking to what I already know how to do, like races, deities, and classes.
I have been taking it slowly, but I find that doing this step by step will be easier and have a better end result than just jumping into the deep end, if you'll excuse the pun.


I am not an expert on the sea, just writing stories here (disclaimer).

What happens on the surface of the ocean doesn't seem important to the campaign, but I beg to differ. Storms don't do any damage, but they darken the 'sky'. Light only penetrates the top layer of the sea, so it's very significant in the campaign. The ocean surface constitues the weather. Maybe ships are even considered stars, and used for astrology. Light is up, dark is down.

In have planned long ago that humans have just been fairy stories for children in this setting, so I haven't given ships much thought. I must say I like this idea, however, but how can ships be used like stars when hey are constantly moving, often unpredictably?
As for light, underwater cities will have their own lights, and most underwater creatures have good night vision. I will edit low-light vision and night vision into some of the races in a minute.


Speaking of which, the reef people live on a mountain. Without reef, there's either vasty nothingness or dark depth. It probably seems like the reef is the only safe place in the world. Note to self: watch finding Nemo again.

The people here aren't little fishes. They are a sophisticated civilisation, at least as advanced as humans if not more so, and they are more than cabable of building cities. Reefs are not the only safe place in the ocean, whatever Nemo's dad thinks.


With the light comes food. The reef attracts hunters all the time, but it's not all about light. There's also the tides. I am not sure what effect they have, but they are the easiest way to make the sea world more alien, and the players more interested in the environment. Maybe there are plants that release their spores only on a full moon flood, or something like that. Maybe that's how the reef people predict when the ships will come. Maybe tides change the currents.

I don't think that tides are really noticed in the deep, I thought it was mostly a surface thing. Any ideas, Aeolius? You know more about things like this than I do.
I must say, I am lucky to have such experienced people helping a beginner like me along.


The currents are a major influence. The sea is an everchanging environment, but the currents supply a drop of logic, of consistency in all that. I would suggest using different currents over and under each other, depending of course on how deep the characters go.

I was thinking that currents would be the equivelant of roads, for the exact reasons you have mentioned.


Water is heaviest at 4 degrees celsius. That means both colder and warmer water lies on top of that. Not only the light changes with depth, but also temperature. Now that we already have light, tides, currents and temperature, the ocean is becoming very unpredictable indeed.

The dark is of course a very tempting questing target. Having seen documentaries of dead whales sinking to the ocean floor, where they are slowly eaten by bacteria, I see the ocean floor as some sort of spirit place where people go to meet their ancestors, the ones who sank. A shark has to keep swimming or he sinks. Imagine what else is there? Note to self: watch deep rising again.

There are plenty of other features I would explore. Underwater lava streams, maybe that's where the sea floor produces new ... things? Icebergs must be interesting places from below. Which leads me to fresh water.

I haven't thought at all about any of these topics... I need to, thank you for bringing them up.


Wherever a river finds the sea, the fresh water turns brackish with the tide. The same must be true in reverse. Here is a massive story hook, if we find out how to use it. Rivers sometimes change course. How possible woud it be if an underwater colony worked for years to make this happen? It would spark wars indeed. And that's even without the foul-smelling freshwater-people creating trouble. Icebregs are made of fresh water, are they colonies of the river people? I would definitely use that difference.

I have been debating in my mind whether to have freshwater beings as sworn enemies; or second class citizens and/or a less advanced civilisation.
I have been leaning towards the former, because it would enable some very interesting gameplay possibilities. Perhaps there could be wars, with esturies as the battlefield, or adventurers protecting the oceans from freshwater raiding parties.
But on the other hand, having them as a less advanced civilisation presents some interesting possibilities as well. Players could interact with them better that way, they would be able to talk instead of just chopping eachother up all the time.
Opinions?


his post has been rambling a bit, but the basis is this: the environment is far more interesting that the races, classes and monsters. If you don't use that, then all you will have in the end is a normal campaign set underwater.

Thank you for reading.

No, thank you! It's been very interesting, and it's given me a lot to think about.


I just came across the term smolting (http://www.holar.is/aquafarmer/node21.html) , the other day.

Hmm... this would add yet more possibilities into the whole "freshwater vs seawater" thing. For freshwater beings to find the ocean painful, and find it hard to live here... It makes me think of so many ideas, like debuffs for freshwater creatures when in seawater; freshwater spies needing ways to smolt quickly; etc. It also puts the whole "second-class citizens" idea out the window, because freshwater creatures obviously can't live here. Or maybe they live here anyway? Who knows?
I definitely need to give this some thought.

Now, to outline the updates...

I have spent the last while making monsters. I have a lot now, and they are all dire equivelants of real creatures. I have not made them by just applying a dire template, rather, I have used the animal itself as a basis for my own creature.
I have been making dire monsters because I have only homebrewed one monster before, and it sucked, so I have been taking it more slowly now, and because a friend of mine told me that dire monsters are easier I decided they would be a good place to start.

My next project will be the environment itself. I have been meaning to get around to this for a while, but I keep putting it off. Now, with all the news ideas I have been given (thanks, Dazdya), I would really like to get started on this.
I think we should start getting the underwater mechanics sorted. Then we should do some geography, culminating in me creating some world maps.
Does this seem like a good way to continue? If not, please don't shy away from correcting me.

Now I better upload those monsters. I just hope that they aren't too many words...

[Zolkabro]

It turns out that the monsters are too many words for the first post, so here they are:

Monsters

Dire Piranha
Even worse than the normal piranhas that turn rivers into bloodbaths, Dire Piranhas are massive beasts, also known, inaccurately, as the river shark. The merest scent of blood turns a Dire Piranha into a relentless killing machine, and they will stop at nothing to tear their foes apart. They dwell in freshwater rivers, preying on anyone foolish enough to enter.
Large Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 5d8+20 (42 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: Swim 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+13
Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d8+9)
Full Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d8+9)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Blood frenzy, vicious bite
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +14
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Environment: Warm Aquatic
Organization: Swarm
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 6-12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: –

A Dire Piranha can be summoned with a summon nature's ally V spell, while a Celestial or Fiendish Dire Piranha can be summoned with summon monster VI. A 10th level or higher Druid playing in an aquatic campaign may take a Dire Piranha as an animal companion with a -9 adjustment to his effective druid level.

Blood Frenzy (Ex)
The scent of blood drives a Dire Piranha into a ferocious feeding frenzy. If there are any bleeding creatures (such as those affected by the piranha’s vicious bite ability, or a wounding weapon), then the Piranha is sent into a rage. It gains a +4 bonus to Strength and Constitution, and a +2 bonus on Will saves. However, it takes a -2 penalty to its AC. This rage lasts for as long as the bleeding creature remains within 60 ft., or up to a number of rounds equal to 3 + the Dire Piranha’s Constitution modifier, whichever comes first. Once a Dire Piranha has come out of its blood frenzy, then it cannot go back into it for 1d6 rounds.

Vicious Bite (Ex)
A Dire Piranha’s bite inflicts grievous, bleeding wounds. A creature damaged by a Dire Piranha’s bite attack must make a DC 18 Fortitude save or take 1 Constitution damage. The DC is Strength-based.

Dire Seahorse
Dire Seahorses are primordial beasts who dwell in the deeps of the sea, ancient leviathans feared by all ocean-going folk. They have much in common with a normal seahorse in terms of appearance, but they are truly massive, and clad in iron-hard scales. They have a vaguely draconic appearance, leading some to speculate that dragons evolved or were created from Dire Seahorses. Dire Seahorses are extremely rare, dwelling only in the deepest depths of the ocean, but are vicious predators and immediately assault any living thing that enters its sight.
Colossal Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 20d8+140 (230 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: Swim 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 22 (-8 size, +20 natural), touch 2, flatfooted 22
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+46
Attack: Tail slap +22 melee (4d6+22)
Full Attack: Tail slap +22/+17/+12 melee (4d6+22)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon
Special Qualities: Darkvision 180 ft., low-light vision
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +14, Will +12
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 10, Con 24, Int 2, Wis 18, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +14, Spot +17, Swim +23
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Awesome Blow, Swim-By AttackSW, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Rapidstrike
Environment: Cold Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 21-45 HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: –

An epic Druid of 22nd level or higher in an aquatic campaign may take a Dire Seahorse as an animal companion with a -21 adjustment to his effective druid level.

Breath Weapon (Ex)
As a standard action, a Dire Seahorse may suck in water. The next, it may expel it in a 80 ft. cone of surging water. All creatures caught in the cone take 15d6 points of bludgeoning damage and are pushed back 10d10 ft. from the seahorse. A successful Reflex save, DC 27, halves the damage and prevents the creature from being pushed back. The Dire Seahorse must wait 1d4 rounds before it can suck in water again. A Dire Seahorse cannot apply metabreath feats to its breath weapon.

Dire Blowfish
Dire Blowfishes are, from a distance, awkward, bumbling creatures, too amusingly inept to be any real threat. However as one draws closer, they notice the blowfish does not look like the bumbling blob-like fish of before – rather, it has more in common with a mace. Covered in spines hard as steel and dripping with poison, and capable of inflating its elastic-like body to huge sizes, a Dire Blowfish is a very real threat. Though normally docile, a threatened Dire Blowfish will savagely defend itself. Sahuagin make a sport of hunting them, and have devised a way of cooking them that neutralizes their fatal toxins, creating an exquisite dish that can be fatal if mishandled.
Medium Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 3d8+12 (25 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +6 natural) touch 8, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+6
Attack: Spines +6 melee (1d4+4 plus poison)
Full Attack: Spines +6 melee (1d4+4 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Expand, poison, spiny
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +2siv
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +4, Swim +12
Feats: Ability Focus (Poison), Toughness
Environment: Any Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 3-6 HD (Medium), 7-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: –

A Dire Blowfish can be summoned with a summon nature's ally III spell, while a Celestial or Fiendish Dire Blowfish can be summoned with summon monster IV. A 7th level or higher Druid playing in an aquatic campaign may take a Dire Blowfish as an animal companion with a -6 adjustment to his effective druid level.

Expand (Ex)
As a full-round action, a Dire Blowfish may fill its body with water, causing it to expand. Its size changes to Large for 1d6 rounds, though its ability scores are not affected. Any creatures that are in the space that the blowfish expands to are pushed out to the nearest adjacent square, and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or take spines damage. The save is Strength-based. Creatures damaged this way must also save against the blowfish’s poison. Once a Dire Blowfish has expanded, it must wait 1d4 rounds before it can do it again.

Poison (Ex)
A Dire Blowfish’s spines contain a deadly poison. The poison has a DC of 16 and has an initial and secondary damage of 1d4 Constitution damage. The save is Constitution based.

Spiny (Ex)
A Dire Blowfish is covered in spines. With a successful grapple check, it deals spines damage to a grappled creature. In addition, any creature that hits a Dire Blowfish with a natural weapon, touch attack, or unarmed strikes also takes spines damage. If a creature is damaged this way, it must also save against the blowfish’s poison.

Dire Anglerfish
A Dire Anglerfish is a huge version of their smaller cousin, with thick natural armour, terrifying teeth, and a huge, bright, poisonous lure. Both the Dire Anglerfish and the Anglerfish hunt by finding a dark spot deep in the ocean. They wait, and after a while other creatures are lured to the glowing lure, and are snapped up hungrily. With Anglerfish, they lure ordinary fish. With Dire Anglerfish they lure anything edible, no matter how big. Many creatures die of fear simply by seeing the huge, bloody, horrifying teeth. However, despite all this blood and guts, the Dire Anglerfish has almost no brain to speak of. Everything is a reflex action.
Huge Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 12d10+20
Initiative: +3
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Vicious bite, Lure, Frightful Presence
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +12, Will +10
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 8, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 2
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8, Swim +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite), Lightening Reflexes, Improved Initiative
Environment: Cold Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 10-16 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: –


Vicious Bite (Ex)
A Dire Anglerfish’s bite inflicts grievous, bleeding wounds. A creature damaged by a Dire Anglerfish’s bite attack must make a DC 26 Fortitude save or take 1 Constitution damage. The DC is Strength-based.

Frightful Presence (Ex)
Creatures with less Hit Dice than the dire anglerfish who can see the anglerfish's gaping maw are Shaken for 3d6 rounds unless they make a successful save (DC is 10 + 1/2 anglerfish's HD + Charisma modifier). Creatures with 1 hit die or less must make the same save or die from fright.

Lure (Ex)
The Dire Anglerfish has a bioluminescent lure dangling from a stalk coming out of it’s skull. It is in the square adjacent to the front of the Dire Anglerfish. It shines light in a 100 ft. cone. All living things in this cone must make a Will saving throw with d% every round with a DC of the amount of squares the light lasts for minus the amount of squares the living thing is from the Dire Anglerfish’s lure. If they fail, they automatically move to the square where the lure is, or as far as their move will allow, whichever is shorter. If the limits of their move stop them going to the lure they have to go half the distance between them and the lure in the next round.
Players in the square with the lure have to make a reflex save every round to avoid the poison that drips from the lure, with a DC of 22. If they fail, they are poisoned and take 1 point of strength damage.
They also have to make a Will save with a DC of 22 add the amount of rounds they have been in the cone to avoid touching the lure. If they touch the lure then the Dire Anglerfish bites them as an Attack of Opportunity add the amount they failed the throw by damage. The Dire Anglerfish can still make this Attack of Opportunity when flat-footed, and they can make it as many times as they like per round.
If they want to leave the square with the lure in they have to make the same save again, add the amount of squares they want to move by.
A Dire Anglerfish can make a hide check to hide behind its own light.

Dire Carp
Dire Carp are vicious aquatic predators, despite their benign appearance. They will gladly kill and devour any being that wanders too close to their territory.
Small Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 8d8+16 (44)
Speed: Swim 40 ft.
Initiative: +2
Armor Class: 17 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+6
Attack Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20)
Full-Attack Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20 and tail slap +3 melee (1d2+1)
Space: 5 ft.; Reach: 5 ft.
Special Attacks: Deadly Bite, Dismember, Improved Grab
Special Qualities: Low-light Vision
Saves: Fort +6 Ref +6 Will +2
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +7, Spot +7, Jump -3 (+13 underwater), Swim +9
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
Environment: Temperate aquatic (sheer-walled rivers and lakes)
Organization: School (5-10)
Challenge Rating: 8
Advancement: 9-12 HD (Small), 13-18 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

Deadly Bite (Ex)
Unlike most natural weapons, a Dire Carp's bite has a threat range of 17-20. However, Dire Carp cannot gain the Improved Critical (Bite) and Improved Natural Weapon (Bite) feats unless it is at least Medium sized.

Dismember (Ex)
When a Dire Carp scores a critical hit, it may attempt to dismember its victim as a free action. Roll d% according to the following table:
{table=head]Roll|Result

1-50|No Effect

51-60|Left Leg Severed

61-70|Right Leg Severed

71-80|Left Arm Severed

81-90|Right Arm Severed

91-95|Victim Decapitated

96-99|Reroll

100|Reroll twice and choose either result
[/table]
Severing a limb results in 2 points of Constution damage. In addition, the victim may lose its Dexerity bonus to AC (either leg), fall prone (either leg), have its movement speed reduced to 5 ft./round (either leg), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Swim, Climb, Concentration, Ride, Tumble, Disguise, Jump, and Balance checks (any limb), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Perform, Disable Device, Use Magic Device, Craft, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Forgery checks (either arm), lose the ability to equip shields or weapons in its "off" hand (usually left arm), lose the ability to wield weapons in its "main" hand (usually right arm), lose the benefits of foot, arm, head, and/or hands-slot magic items (as appropriate), be forced to drop an equipped two-handed weapon or wield it one-handed (either arm), lose the ability to cast spells with a somatic and/or material component (either arm), or even die outright (head). Creatures that do not require their head to survive, such as golems and undead, may avoid this final effect. All of these effects (except death, falling prone, and the Concentration penalty) are permanent unless and until the victim gains (or uses) the "regeneration" special ability, whether from a spell effect or its own powers.

If the carp attempts to remove an already-missing limb, reroll once. Any reroll that attempts to trigger a second reroll causes the attempt to fail outright.

If the victim is attempting to cast a spell when the carp makes a successful dismember attempt, the Concentration check to avoid losing the spell (due to the damage of the initial bite attack) has its DC increased by 10. The victim of a successful dismember attempt must make Concentration checks to cast any and all future spells until it receives at least 1 point of healing from any source, which also negates the Concentration penalty for having a limb removed by the dismember attempt.

If the victim has a nonhumanoid anatomy, the DM creates and uses a table similar to the one presented here at his discretion, with similar probabilities of losing important limbs. The carp cannot use its Dismember ability on an opponent with no discernible anatomy (such as an ooze).

For each HD the carp has, there is a cumulative 5% chance that an initial roll of 1-50 (that is, a failure) is instead treated as a roll of 100 (that is, "reroll twice and use either result").

Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, a dire carp must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, the victim is thrown 1d4 squares across the water. If the carp uses its Spring Attack feat during the initial bite attack, the victim travels with the carp to the water adjacent to the square that the carp ends its move in, and then it is thrown.

A dire carp may use its Dismember and Improved Grab abilities simultaneously, provided that the initial bite attack is a critical hit. If the carp uses its Spring Attack feat concurrently with both of these abilities, the appropriate limb is not severed until after the carp has finished its move action.

Dire Walrus
Dire walruses are mammoth creatures as big as elephants. They grow about 25 feet long on average and weigh around 8 tons.
The creatures have two six-foot long ivory tusks jutting from their "moustached" mouths, which they use to stab and subdue prey. Their thick hide is brownish in color and their eyes are small, red, and cruel. Dire walruses are deceptively agile for such hefty beasts. They prefer to belly-flop on top of smaller prey and wait for them to die. Against larger foes, dire walruses attempt to bull rush the enemy into deeper, colder water, where the walrus has the advantage. Once the enemy is underwater, the walrus plunges in and tears the foe to ribbons with its ivory tusks.
Huge Animal (Aquatic)
HD: 12d8+84 (138 hp)
Init: +1
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares)
AC: 18(-2 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+20
Attack: Gore +17 melee (2d8+15)
Full Attack: Gore +17 melee (2d8+15)
Face/reach: 15ft/15ft
Special Attacks: Body Slam
Special Qualities: Scent, Darkvision, Insulated
Save: F+15, R+9, W+9
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 12, Con 24, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8, Swim + 16
Feats: Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Gore)
Environment: Cold aquatic
Organization: Solitary or herd (3-15)
CR: 7
Treasure: None (Tusks are worth at least 1,000 gp)
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 13-14 HD (Huge); 15-18 HD (Gargantuan)

Body Slam (Ex)
As a move equivalent action, a dire walrus can heave its enormous bulk on top of its foes. All creatures directly in front of the dire walrus must make a Reflex save (DC 20) or be crushed and pinned. Crushed creatures take 3d6+10 points of damage, and continue to take the same ammount of damage until either the walrus moves off of the crushed creatures, or until the crushed creatures succeed at an escape artist check (DC 20). One dire walrus can pin one large creature, or two medium-sized creatures, or four small creatures, six tiny creatures, etc.

Insulated
(Ex) The walrus is immune to cold damage due to it’s thick, insulated skin. This enables it to swim into the coldest, darkest waters it wants. This includes spells such as cone of cold, which freeze things magically.

Dire Orca
Dire Orcas look like larger and more feral version of the killer whale or Orca. It has several bony growths along the top of its head and down it's back. The purpose of these growths are not known, but they're not used as a weapon. The Dire Orcas eyes are a deep yellow or red. Dire Orcas are immensely aggressive, and attack anything that enters their territory, no matter if it's a baby saepia or a massive Dire Platypus. Even other Dire Orcas occasionally fall prey to this massive beasts aggressiveness. Unfortunately, they are just as aggressive to creatures that they have no chance of defeating, and often fall prey simply to their own recklessness.
Gargantuan Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 20d8+140 (230 hp)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: Swim 70'
AC: 18 (-4 size, +2 Dex, +10 natural)
Attacks: Bite +23 melee
Damage: Bite 2d8+18
Face/Reach: 20' by 40'/15'
Special Attacks: Leap, Dismember
Special Qualities: Blindsight
Saves: Fort +21, Ref +14, Will +8
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 15, Con 25, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 6,
Skills: Listen +13*, Spot +13*,
Feats: Power Attack (-15/+15)
Climate/Terrain: Any Aquatic
Organisation: Solitary, pair, family (3-5), or pod (6-11)
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: 21-30 HD (Gargantuan); 31-60 HD (Colossal)

Blindsight (Ex)
Orca’s can "see" by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allow them to locate objects and creatures within 120'. A silence spell negates this and forces the whale to rely on it's vision, which is approximately as good as a humans.

Leap (Ex)
By taking a full charge from beneath the waters, a Dire Orca can jump roughly 200' straight into the air and crash down with tremendous force, anyone caught beneath the Dire Orca as it crashes back down, must make a reflex save (DC 18) or take 4d8+24 points of bludgeoning damage. The Orca itself takes half this amount.

Dismember (Ex)
When a Dire Orca scores a critical hit, it may attempt to dismember its victim as a free action. Roll d% according to the following table:
{table=head]Roll|Result

1-50|No Effect

51-60|Left Leg Severed

61-70|Right Leg Severed

71-80|Left Arm Severed

81-90|Right Arm Severed

91-95|Victim Decapitated

96-99|Reroll

100|Reroll twice and choose either result
[/table]
Severing a limb results in 2 points of Constution damage. In addition, the victim may lose its Dexerity bonus to AC (either leg), fall prone (either leg), have its movement speed reduced to 5 ft./round (either leg), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Swim, Climb, Concentration, Ride, Tumble, Disguise, Jump, and Balance checks (any limb), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Perform, Disable Device, Use Magic Device, Craft, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Forgery checks (either arm), lose the ability to equip shields or weapons in its "off" hand (usually left arm), lose the ability to wield weapons in its "main" hand (usually right arm), lose the benefits of foot, arm, head, and/or hands-slot magic items (as appropriate), be forced to drop an equipped two-handed weapon or wield it one-handed (either arm), lose the ability to cast spells with a somatic and/or material component (either arm), or even die outright (head). Creatures that do not require their head to survive, such as golems and undead, may avoid this final effect. All of these effects (except death, falling prone, and the Concentration penalty) are permanent unless and until the victim gains (or uses) the "regeneration" special ability, whether from a spell effect or its own powers.

If the Orca attempts to remove an already-missing limb, reroll once. Any reroll that attempts to trigger a second reroll causes the attempt to fail outright.

If the victim is attempting to cast a spell when the carp makes a successful dismember attempt, the Concentration check to avoid losing the spell (due to the damage of the initial bite attack) has its DC increased by 10. The victim of a successful dismember attempt must make Concentration checks to cast any and all future spells until it receives at least 1 point of healing from any source, which also negates the Concentration penalty for having a limb removed by the dismember attempt.

If the victim has a nonhumanoid anatomy, the DM creates and uses a table similar to the one presented here at his discretion, with similar probabilities of losing important limbs. The Orca cannot use its Dismember ability on an opponent with no discernible anatomy (such as an ooze).

For each HD the Orca has, there is a cumulative 5% chance that an initial roll of 1-50 (that is, a failure) is instead treated as a roll of 100 (that is, "reroll twice and use either result").

Skills: Orcas get a +4 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks.

These bonuses are lost if the Orca’s blindsight is negated.

Dire Shark
Dire sharks attack anything they perceive to be edible, even larger creatures.
This monstrously aggressive fish can grow to a length of 25 feet and weigh more than 20,000 pounds. Dire sharks bite with their powerful jaws, swallowing smaller creatures in one gulp. Unlike a normal shark, they have a large horn similar to a unicorn horn, or that of a narwhal.
Size/Type: Huge Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 18d8+66 (147 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: Swim 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (2d8+9)
Full Attack: Gore +16 melee (2d8+12)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Keen scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +13, Will +12
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +12, Spot +11, Swim +14
Feats: Improved Natural Attack (bite), Toughness (4), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Cold aquatic
Organization: Solitary or school (2-5)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 19-32 (Huge); 33-54 (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment:

Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, a dire shark must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe in the following round. A dire shark may use its Dismember and Improved Grab abilities simultaneously, provided that the initial bite attack is a critical hit. However, if they manage to dismember a limb then they can only swallow that limb whole, not the entire victim.

Swallow Whole (Ex)
A dire shark can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to one size smaller by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d6+6 points of bludgeoning damage plus 1d8+4 points of acid damage per round from the shark’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out using a light slashing or piercing weapon by dealing 25 points of damage to the shark’s digestive tract (AC 13). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.
A Huge dire shark’s gullet can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium or Small, 32 Tiny, 128 Diminutive, or 512 Fine or smaller opponents.

Keen Scent (Ex)
A dire shark can notice creatures by scent in a 180-foot radius and can detect blood in the water at a range of up to 1 mile.

Dismember (Ex)
When a Dire Shark scores a critical hit, it may attempt to dismember its victim as a free action. Roll d% according to the following table:
{table=head]Roll|Result

1-50|No Effect

51-60|Left Leg Severed

61-70|Right Leg Severed

71-80|Left Arm Severed

81-90|Right Arm Severed

91-95|Victim Decapitated

96-99|Reroll

100|Reroll twice and choose either result
[/table]
Severing a limb results in 2 points of Constution damage. In addition, the victim may lose its Dexerity bonus to AC (either leg), fall prone (either leg), have its movement speed reduced to 5 ft./round (either leg), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Swim, Climb, Concentration, Ride, Tumble, Disguise, Jump, and Balance checks (any limb), take a cumulative -4 penalty to Perform, Disable Device, Use Magic Device, Craft, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Forgery checks (either arm), lose the ability to equip shields or weapons in its "off" hand (usually left arm), lose the ability to wield weapons in its "main" hand (usually right arm), lose the benefits of foot, arm, head, and/or hands-slot magic items (as appropriate), be forced to drop an equipped two-handed weapon or wield it one-handed (either arm), lose the ability to cast spells with a somatic and/or material component (either arm), or even die outright (head). Creatures that do not require their head to survive, such as golems and undead, may avoid this final effect. All of these effects (except death, falling prone, and the Concentration penalty) are permanent unless and until the victim gains (or uses) the "regeneration" special ability, whether from a spell effect or its own powers.

If the Shark attempts to remove an already-missing limb, reroll once. Any reroll that attempts to trigger a second reroll causes the attempt to fail outright.

If the victim is attempting to cast a spell when the carp makes a successful dismember attempt, the Concentration check to avoid losing the spell (due to the damage of the initial bite attack) has its DC increased by 10. The victim of a successful dismember attempt must make Concentration checks to cast any and all future spells until it receives at least 1 point of healing from any source, which also negates the Concentration penalty for having a limb removed by the dismember attempt.

If the victim has a nonhumanoid anatomy, the DM creates and uses a table similar to the one presented here at his discretion, with similar probabilities of losing important limbs. The Shark cannot use its Dismember ability on an opponent with no discernible anatomy (such as an ooze).

For each HD the Shark has, there is a cumulative 5% chance that an initial roll of 1-50 (that is, a failure) is instead treated as a roll of 100 (that is, "reroll twice and use either result").

Leap (Ex)
By taking a full charge from beneath the waters, a Dire Shark can jump roughly 200' straight into the air and crash down with tremendous force, anyone caught beneath the Dire Shark as it crashes back down, must make a reflex save (DC 18) or take 4d8+24 points of bludgeoning damage. The Shark itself takes half this amount. However if the Dire Shark uses it’s gore full attack at the same time the bludgeoning damage to both the victim and the shark is halved, and the victim takes goring damage as well.

Blood Frenzy (Ex)
The scent of blood drives a Dire Shark into a ferocious feeding frenzy. If there are any bleeding creatures, then the Shark is sent into a rage. It gains a +4 bonus to Strength and Constitution, and a +2 bonus on Will saves. However, it takes a -2 penalty to its AC. This rage lasts for as long as the bleeding creature remains within 60 ft., or up to a number of rounds equal to 3x the Dire Shark’s Constitution modifier, whichever comes first. Once a Dire Shark has come out of its blood frenzy, then it cannot go back into it for 1d6 rounds.

Vicious Bite (Ex)
A Dire Shark’s bite inflicts grievous, bleeding wounds. A creature damaged by a Dire Shark’s bite attack must make a DC 18 Fortitude save or take 1 Constitution damage. The DC is Strength-based.

Dire Stonefish
The Stonefish is the most venomous fish in the sea. The Dire Stonefish is the most venomous thing in the entire world, fish, fowl, animal, or reptile. It has excellent camouflage skills, and looks just like a rock when it wants to. So it lies in wait, unseen, unnoticed. And then, when the unsuspecting victim steps onto this fatal fish, the poison is injected into the victims foot. But if the victim sees that this rock is not a rock, then he will be instantly killed. The moment a Dire Stonefish realises that its ruse has been discovered, it lashes out with it’s deadly teeth, and poisoned projectiles.
Size/Type: Large animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 5d8+20 (42 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: Swim 25 ft. (5 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +18 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+12
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+6, inner poison)
Full Attack: Spineshot +10 ranged (1d8+4, spine poison)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison, Spines,
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Stoneskin, Rock Camouflage
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4
Skills: Spot +8, Listen +6, Hide +10
Feats: Weapon Focus (Poison), Sneak Attack of Opportunity
Environment: Warm Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 12
Treasure: None
Alignment: Almost Always Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 6-12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: –

Rock Camoflauge (Ex)
A Dire Stonefish is adept at making itself look like a stone. It has a +12 bonus when to hide checks when hiding among stones.

Stoneskin (Su)
If the Dire Stonefish is camouflaged among rocks completely still for two full round, then for every round after that until they move they get a +1 to natural armour every round.

Spiny (Ex)
A Dire Stonefish has eight poisonous spines on it’s body. However, these spines are retractable. They are mostly inside the Dire Stonefish’s body. They come out when they are triggered by some kind of shock to the Stonefish, like when a victim steps on a Dire Stonefish; hits a Dire Stonefish with a natural weapon, touch attack, or unarmed strikes; or drops something on the Dire Stonefish. If this happens the victim takes spine damage and is injected with poison. A Dire Stonefish can also shoot it’s poison-laced spines as a projectile weapon, with it’s Spineshot full attack. For every spine the Dire Stonefish shoots in one round, the damage is halved. The spines take 1d5 rounds to regrow.

Poison (Ex)
The Dire Stonefish has a truly terrifying poison on it’s spines. It reduces every single ability score by 4 every round, has an initial damage of 1d12 damage fir every spin injected into the victim, and has a secondary damage of 1d8 for every spine injected into the victim. If the victim hits the creature with a natural weapon, touch attack, or unarmed strikes then it is hurt with the Stonefish’s spine poison. However, it’s inner poison, which poisons the Dire Stonefish’s bite, reduces ability scores by 2, 1d8 initial damage, and 1d6 secondary damage. The save DC for the spine poison is the amount of spines injected into the victim multiplied by 3. The save DC for the inner poison is 12. Both saves are fortitude-based.

Dire Platypus
The Dire Platypus is the most perfectly evolved beast in the oceans. It has a duck-bill, webbed otter feet, a beaver’s tail, thick insulation, and can sense the smallest of electrical charges from over a mile away. Added to the fact that it is almost too big too fit in the ocean, the Dire Platypus is not something you want to meet. They are not especially cruel or ferocious, they simply regard people as insignificant, how a human would consider an ant, or a fly. They swim around the oceans, going anywhere they please, seeing the world, hardly even noticing lesser creatures.
Colossal+ Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 30d8+160 (295 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: Swim 80 ft. (14 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (+9 Dexterity, -10 size, +22 natural), touch 2, flatfooted 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+43
Attack: Claws 4d8+36 (poison, may hit 2-4 times in one action),
Full Attack: Tail slap +22/+17/+12 melee (4d6+15)
Space/Reach: 40 ft./30 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, billsnap, poison, swipe
Special Qualities: Darkvision, low-light vision, Blindsight
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +14, Will +12
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 28, Con 40, Int 6, Wis 18, Cha 4
Skills: Listen +30, Spot +30, Swim +20
Feats: Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Swim-By Attack, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes,
Environment: Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 45-75 HD (Colossal+)
Level Adjustment: –

Breath Weapon (Ex)
As a standard action, a Dire Platypus may suck in water. The next, it may expel it in a 100 ft. cone of surging water. All creatures caught in the cone take 15d6 points of bludgeoning damage and are pushed back 10d10 ft. from the seahorse. A successful Reflex save, DC 28, halves the damage and prevents the creature from being pushed back. The Dire Platypus must wait 1d4 rounds before it can suck in water again. A Dire Platypus cannot apply metabreath feats to its breath weapon.

Billsnap (Ex)
The Dire Platypus’s huge bill can be opened, then snapped shut at great speed. When the bill is opened, as a full round action, water is sucked in by the quick movement. All players in the Platypus’s reach are pulled into the Platypus’s bill. The reflex save for this has a DC of 24. Then, the Platypus may snap it’s bill shut as a full round action, crushing those within for bludgeoning damage of 14d6. When the bill is opened players move one square back. After that, the Dire Platypus may repeat this as a standard action 1d10 times, each time the damage decreasing by 4 and DC increasing by 2. If the Dire Platypus uses it’s Breath Weapon attack during it’s Billsnap attack then the Billsnap attack stops, but all players in the bill receive 4d6 damage as the water is sucked in, and then they are sent an extra 4d4ft back from the Dire Platypus.

Blindsight (Ex)
Dire Platypi can "see" in the water by emitting an electric field, and sensing vibrations in its bill. When it is swimming, the platypus has blindsight out to 40 and blindsense out to 100’. In general, a dire platypus swims with its eyes closed, and uses just his blindsight and blindsense for hunting and navigation. This can see through all hide checks, invisibility spells, camouflage abilities, etc, no matter how high the DC. However, spells like ghostform, that enable other things to go through you, make you completely invisible to a Dire Platypi.

Poison (Ex)
The Dire Platypus has poisoned spurs below it’s claws. When it makes it’s claw attack, for every time it hits the victim is poisoned. The poison has an initial damage of 4d8, and a secondary damage of 2d8. The DC is 24.

Insulated: (Ex)
The Dire Platypus is immune to cold damage due to it’s thick, insulated skin. This enables it to swim into the coldest, darkest waters it wants. This includes spells such as cone of cold, which freeze things magically.

Swipe (Ex)
Because of it’s webbed feet, a Dire Platypus may choose whether to swipe their prey when they use their claw attack. If they do, then their opponent is pushed back 4d4 feet, and receive 2d4 extra damage. The Dire Platypus can only use this attack every 3 rounds.

See first post for other info

[Debihuman]

Dire Piranha should do + 9 damage ( it gets 1 and 1/2 times Str bonus since it only has one attack).

Dire Seahorse cannot normally make iterative attacks (see below) with its tail as it is a natural weapon. It does 1 and 1/2 Str bonus damage since it is its only attack.

The rapidstrike feat from Draconomicon allows for a creature's natural weapon to make an additional attack at -5 and Improved Rapidstrike feat allows you to make up to 4 attacks with natural weapons. Don't turn feats into special abilities. Since the creature doesn't actually qualify for these feats, you could make them bonus feat. With the proper feats the attack lines would look like this:

Attack: Tail slap +22 melee (4d6+22)
Full Attack: Tail slap +22/+17/+12 melee (4d6+22)

Darkvision is generally allocated in 60 ft. increments. 180 feet would be more common than 200 feet.

Dire Anglerfish has way too many feats for 5 HD. Did this originally have more hit dice? 5 is probably too few for a creature of this size and lowering the HD would explain why the Advancement is off. I recommend giving it 12 HD to account for the number of feats rather than scaling back the feats. You'll have to change a lot in the stat block to account for this as well.

Lure is too non-standard. I recommend making all the saves Constitution-based. You also didn't mention what the damage was for the lure's poison. I just made it 1 point of Str damage. Lure should be listed in the creature's attack line because of the poison rather than in the special ability. It is missing low-light vision, which is standard for all Animals.

Also, it sounds like this creature should have Frightful Presence (creatures that see its teeth die from fright) so I included that.

Anglerfish updated in spoiler:
Dire Anglerfish
Huge Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 12d10+20
Initiative: +3
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence (DC 12), Lure, Vicious bite
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +8, Will +10
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 8, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 2
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8, Swim +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite), Lightening Reflexes, Improved Initiative
Environment: Cold Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 13-16 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

A dire anglerfish is a huge version of their smaller cousin, with thick natural armour, terrifying teeth, and and a bioluminescent lure that drips poison.

Combat

Dire anglerfish hunt by finding a dark spot deep in the ocean. They wait until other creatures are lured to the glowing lure, and then snap them up hungrily. Many creatures succumb to fear simply by seeing the huge, bloody, horrifying teeth. Despite all this blood and guts, dire anglerfish are not tactical hunters.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Creatures with less Hit Dice than the dire anglerfish who can see the anglerfish's gaping maw are Shaken for 3d6 rounds unless they make a successful save (DC is 10 + 1/2 anglerfish's HD + Charisma modifier). Creatures with 1 hit die or less must make the same save or die from fright.

Vicious Bite (Ex): A dire anglerfish’s bite inflicts grievous, bleeding wounds. A creature damaged by a dire anglerfish’s bite attack must make a DC 26 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. The DC is Strength-based.

Lure (Ex): The dire anglerfish has a bioluminescent lure dangling from a stalk coming out of its skull, which hangs in the square adjacent to the front of the dire anglerfish. It shines light in a 100 ft. cone. All living things in this cone must make a Will saving throw (DC 22) or be compelled to move their maximum movement toward the light. For every 20 feet closer to the anglerfish that a target is, another Will saving throw is made with the DC increasing by +2 until the target is in the same square as the lure. The save is Constitution-based.

Creatures in the square with the lure make a Reflex save (DC 22) every round to avoid the poison that drips from the lure. If they fail, they are poisoned and take 1 point of Strength damage. They also have to make a Reflex save (DC 22) to avoid touching the lure. The saves are Constitution based. Dire anglerfish are immune to their own poison and the poison of other dire anglerfish.

Touching the lure allows the dire anglerfish to make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity. The dire anglerfish can still make this Attack of Opportunity even when flat-footed.

Last of all, the dire anglerfish can make a Hide check to conceal itself behind its own lure.

Yet another update to the anglerfish (3/22/11).

Base saves for Dire animals are all Good saves and then you adjust for abilities. The anglerfish has high Fort because it has a high Constitution and its Dex of 8 makes it lower Reflexes even with Lightning Reflexes. Don't forget that if you tweak with stats, you'll be making adjustments throughout the stat block.

Will critique more as time allows.

Debby

[Dazdya]

Maybe there could be monsters that normally exist in the reef? Perhaps mimicking the reef itself? Or a hypnotic version of those waving plants from the documentaries?

I find stingrays very intriguing animals, with their ability to cloak on a sandy ocean floor. But those are all versions of normal creatures, maybe we can do better...

I have the impression that there are loads of venomous creatures in the sea. How about a monster that lures venomous predators in order to snare and eat them? Immune to poison of course.

There are also those fish that clean bigger fish. Maybe something can be done with those. Symbiosis may be an interesting option, even for the characters, as long as there's some sort of tradeoff, a small drawback to it.

Since the reef is, obviously, near Australia, my mind somehow wanders to people fishing with dynamite, but that's not a monster...

How about a monster that's tied to an event? Maybe the giant jellyfish follow the matings of the spinebacked turtles or somesuch.

If the reef people are a real civilisation, will they have vermin? Underwater vermin might be interesting as ranger pets and the like.

hmm, not as easy as I thought it was. I guess monsters aren't my strong suit.

[Dazdya]

I have planned long ago that humans have just been fairy stories for children in this setting, so I haven't given ships much thought. I must say I like this idea, however, but how can ships be used like stars when hey are constantly moving, often unpredictably?


For a long time, planets were thought of as 'wandering stars' in astrology. Of course, eventually we learned the mechanics behind them, but they must have baffled early man. Ships could baffle underwater men. And you could even maintain there are patterns to ships as well. But, of course, the DM decides.



I have been debating in my mind whether to have freshwater beings as sworn enemies; or second class citizens and/or a less advanced civilisation.
I have been leaning towards the former, because it would enable some very interesting gameplay possibilities. Perhaps there could be wars, with esturies as the battlefield, or adventurers protecting the oceans from freshwater raiding parties.
But on the other hand, having them as a less advanced civilisation presents some interesting possibilities as well. Players could interact with them better that way, they would be able to talk instead of just chopping eachother up all the time.




Hmm... this would add yet more possibilities into the whole "freshwater vs seawater" thing. For freshwater beings to find the ocean painful, and find it hard to live here... It makes me think of so many ideas, like debuffs for freshwater creatures when in seawater; freshwater spies needing ways to smolt quickly; etc. It also puts the whole "second-class citizens" idea out the window, because freshwater creatures obviously can't live here. Or maybe they live here anyway? Who knows?
I definitely need to give this some thought.


I think this sort of question needs a history. All relations begin somewhere. So let's start with what we know.

Rivers bring stuff from land to sea. It's just too bad that it's covered in freshwater. So when the tide comes in, the sea people can find stuff in the smolten (edit: Doh, wrong word, this is brackish) water before the river people retrieve it. For the river people, it's all loss, when something is lost they never get it back. But if something goes from salt to fresh, the sea people can hold out hope it will find its way back.

So maybe heroes went looking for stuff and never came back, and now the sea people are convinced their epics are in the river? Doesn't even have to be true. But this is a story for a settlement or a region, not for an entire race. For a race you need events on the scale of gods.

When animals first went on land, it was in tidal zones, which implies it was in salt water. But land animals now need fresh water, not salt. So, would there be a god who punished them for going on shore? And when they tried to come back, they found the salt had become poisonous for them? Doh, I should reread what you wrote in the beginning. :P

Maybe this is all nonsense, but it's fun thinking about.

[Mayhem]

Very unique setting and quite detailed. I would call this setting recommended reading :smallwink:.

[Zolkabro]

Dire Piranha should do + 9 damage ( it gets 1 and 1/2 times Str bonus since it only has one attack).

Dire Seahorse cannot normally make iterative attacks (see below) with its tail as it is a natural weapon. It does 1 and 1/2 Str bonus damage since it is its only attack.

The rapidstrike feat from Draconomicon allows for a creature's natural weapon to make an additional attack at -5 and Improved Rapidstrike feat allows you to make up to 4 attacks with natural weapons. Don't turn feats into special abilities. Since the creature doesn't actually qualify for these feats, you could make them bonus feat. With the proper feats the attack lines would look like this:

Attack: Tail slap +22 melee (4d6+22)
Full Attack: Tail slap +22/+17/+12 melee (4d6+22)

Darkvision is generally allocated in 60 ft. increments. 180 feet would be more common than 200 feet.

Dire Anglerfish has way too many feats for 5 HD. Did this originally have more hit dice? 5 is probably too few for a creature of this size and lowering the HD would explain why the Advancement is off. I recommend giving it 12 HD to account for the number of feats rather than scaling back the feats. You'll have to change a lot in the stat block to account for this as well.

Lure is too non-standard. I recommend making all the saves Constitution-based. You also didn't mention what the damage was for the lure's poison. I just made it 1 point of Str damage. Lure should be listed in the creature's attack line because of the poison rather than in the special ability. It is missing low-light vision, which is standard for all Animals.

Also, it sounds like this creature should have Frightful Presence (creatures that see its teeth die from fright) so I included that.

Anglerfish updated in spoiler:
Dire Anglerfish
Huge Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 12d10+20
Initiative: +3
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+15)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence (DC 12), Lure, Vicious bite
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +10
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 8, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 2
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8, Swim +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite), Lightening Reflexes, Improved Initiative
Environment: Cold Aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always True Neutral
Advancement: 13-16 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

A dire anglerfish is a huge version of their smaller cousin, with thick natural armour, terrifying teeth, and and a bioluminescent lure that drips poison.

Combat

Dire anglerfish hunt by finding a dark spot deep in the ocean. They wait until other creatures are lured to the glowing lure, and then snap them up hungrily. Many creatures succumb to fear simply by seeing the huge, bloody, horrifying teeth. Despite all this blood and guts, dire anglerfish are not tactical hunters.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Creatures with less Hit Dice than the dire anglerfish who can see the anglerfish's gaping maw are Shaken for 3d6 rounds unless they make a successful save (DC is 10 + 1/2 anglerfish's HD + Charisma modifier). Creatures with 1 hit die or less must make the same save or die from fright.

Vicious Bite (Ex): A dire anglerfish’s bite inflicts grievous, bleeding wounds. A creature damaged by a dire anglerfish’s bite attack must make a DC 26 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. The DC is Strength-based.

Lure (Ex): The dire anglerfish has a bioluminescent lure dangling from a stalk coming out of its skull, which hangs in the square adjacent to the front of the dire anglerfish. It shines light in a 100 ft. cone. All living things in this cone must make a Will saving throw (DC 22) or be compelled to move toward the light. The save is Constitution-based. The dire anglerfish can make a Hide check to conceal itself behind its own lure.

Creatures in the square with the lure make a Reflex save (DC 22) every round to avoid the poison that drips from the lure. If they fail, they are poisoned and take 1 point of Strength damage. They also have to make a Reflex save (DC 22) to avoid touching the lure. The saves are Constitution based. Dire anglerfish are immune to their own poison and the poison of other dire anglerfish.

Touching the lure allows the dire anglerfish to make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity. The dire anglerfish can still make this Attack of Opportunity even when flat-footed.

Will critique more as time allows.

Debby

I'll edit these in. You are right, the Dire Anglerfish did originally have a higher HD. I don't quite remember what it was, maybe 10? However, I thought that I was making it too overpowered, so I lowered it and forgot to change other details accordingly. Thank you.
I'm also going to put each monster in spoilers, because right now it's an inconvenient block of text.

EDIT: A few things about your edits:
I have not changed the saves, because I deliberately gave it high reflex and lower fortitude. Dire Anglerfish has very fast reflexes. Is this compatible with the rest of it? If not, how can I show the fast reflexes?
I have also only changed some things about the lure, because you scrapped the mechanics that meant that the closer you are to the lure, the more it compels you to come closer, which I thought was quite an important detail.
Other than that, I have edited in your suggestions. Thank you!


For a long time, planets were thought of as 'wandering stars' in astrology. Of course, eventually we learned the mechanics behind them, but they must have baffled early man. Ships could baffle underwater men. And you could even maintain there are patterns to ships as well. But, of course, the DM decides.

I think this sort of question needs a history. All relations begin somewhere. So let's start with what we know.

Rivers bring stuff from land to sea. It's just too bad that it's covered in freshwater. So when the tide comes in, the sea people can find stuff in the smolten (edit: Doh, wrong word, this is brackish) water before the river people retrieve it. For the river people, it's all loss, when something is lost they never get it back. But if something goes from salt to fresh, the sea people can hold out hope it will find its way back.

So maybe heroes went looking for stuff and never came back, and now the sea people are convinced their epics are in the river? Doesn't even have to be true. But this is a story for a settlement or a region, not for an entire race. For a race you need events on the scale of gods.

When animals first went on land, it was in tidal zones, which implies it was in salt water. But land animals now need fresh water, not salt. So, would there be a god who punished them for going on shore? And when they tried to come back, they found the salt had become poisonous for them? Doh, I should reread what you wrote in the beginning. :P

Maybe this is all nonsense, but it's fun thinking about.

I quite like some of these ideas. However, it doesn't solve the question of whether Freshwater creatures are enemies of the seawater creatures, or whether they are just second-class citizens. You have brought up things which are points for both sides.


Very unique setting and quite detailed. I would call this setting recommended reading :smallwink:.

Thank you! :smallbiggrin:

[Debihuman]

I'll edit these in. You are right, the Dire Anglerfish did originally have a higher HD. I don't quite remember what it was, maybe 10? However, I thought that I was making it too overpowered, so I lowered it and forgot to change other details accordingly. Thank you.
I'm also going to put each monster in spoilers, because right now it's an inconvenient block of text.

A few things about your edits:

I have not changed the saves, because I deliberately gave it high reflex and lower fortitude. Dire Anglerfish has very fast reflexes. Is this compatible with the rest of it? If not, how can I show the fast reflexes?

I have also only changed some things about the lure, because you scrapped the mechanics that meant that the closer you are to the lure, the more it compels you to come closer, which I thought was quite an important detail.

Other than that, I have edited in your suggestions. Thank you!

You're more than welcome. I'd forgotten about Lightning Reflexes so the stat block is now corrected in the anglerfish.

This now reflects the stats that you gave it. See my notes above.

Reflex save is base 8 (from HD) and -2 from Dex and +2 from Lightning Reflexes feat. If you want to increase its Reflex save add +2 to Dex. The Fort save is base 8 (from HD) and +6 from its Constitution. Don't forget that increasing Dex will affect other things in the stat block.

While the compunction to move closer to the lure (which is visible at 100 feet) might be stronger the closer the victim is to the lure, you need a simple mechanic that reflects that. How is this:

Lure (Ex): The dire anglerfish has a bioluminescent lure dangling from a stalk coming out of its skull, which hangs in the square adjacent to the front of the dire anglerfish. It shines light in a 100 ft. cone. All living things in this cone must make a Will saving throw (DC 22) or be compelled to move toward the light. For every 20 feet closer to the anglerfish that a target is, the DC increases by +2. The save is Constitution-based. The dire anglerfish can make a Hide check to conceal itself behind its own lure.

Creatures in the square with the lure make a Reflex save (DC 22) every round to avoid the poison that drips from the lure. If they fail, they are poisoned and take 1 point of Strength damage. They also have to make a Reflex save (DC 22) to avoid touching the lure. The saves are Constitution based. Dire anglerfish are immune to their own poison and the poison of other dire anglerfish.

Touching the lure allows the dire anglerfish to make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity. The dire anglerfish can still make this Attack of Opportunity even when flat-footed.

Debby

[Aeolius]

and a bit of inspiration: City in the Sea (http://web.me.com/aeolius/turucambi/CitS.html)
(Vincent Price starring in War-Gods of the Deep)

I used the above-mentioned movie, inspired by Poe's "City in the Sea", as my own inspiration for the region my players are now exploring. The Sinking Isle is nestled beneath the Solnor Ocean on Oerth, the World of Greyhawk.

In the last session, the party found themselves in air-filled caves within a kraken's lair. Though the beast is long dead, the cavern is populated with the former slaves upon whom the kraken, a fleshwarper, experimented with sahuagin grafts upon his unwilling subjects.

The campaign has been running for over three years, now. The party has long known that their nemesis, a hag-like creature who called herself the blackwater hag (thank you, Stormwrack), desired to awaken three ancient sites which would in turn summon three extra-planar maelstroms - draining the waters from the sea itself.

What the party never knew or questioned was why.

Within the next few sessions they will learn their answer. They will learn of faraway worlds, demon lords, and elemental princes. They will hear tales of the Blue Coven and twin terrors.

Yes, I'm having fun. ;)

[Dazdya]

I quite like some of these ideas. However, it doesn't solve the question of whether Freshwater creatures are enemies of the seawater creatures, or whether they are just second-class citizens. You have brought up things which are points for both sides.


That is exactly my point, though I could have stated it more clearly. A good history is always more complicated that a simple friend/enemy switch.

If we take, for example, the American civil war, we can see that there were many underlying factors that influenced people's views on the matter. In the end, it led to war, but families were on both sides, there was the slavery issue, and with the European connections, it was all a giant mess.

So if we take the "gods cursed the landdwellers" idea for a moment, it wouldn't provide a clear answer so much as a background for history, an environment for your npc's to fall back on. In different areas, this would be dealt with in different ways. Voila, instant cultural differences, with a reason.

I am sorry if I preach too much. I have to stop myself from lecturing sometimes. :P

[Aeolius]

If you are going to involve both saltwater and freshies, you might do well to develop the brackish regions where both may be encountered simultaneously. Of course there are exceptions; the salmon swimming upstream, the bull shark that is encountered hundreds of miles upriver, and so on.

When one has saltwater aquariums, it used to be common to subject new acquisitions to a "freshwater dip" - placing the fish in freshwater would kill smaller parasites beneath the scales. Granted, too much time in freshwater will kill a saltie. The reverse is also true.

Maintaining proper salinity can also be a problem. Creatures trapped in tide pools, for example, must tolerate extremes in temperature and salinity as the sun evaporates the water in the pool.

[Dazdya]

Those are interesting new concepts, thank you. The freshwater dip sounds interesting, it might even have religious connotations for intelligent seapeople. How else would they cure diseases and curses?

[Aeolius]

The freshwater dip sounds interesting, it might even have religious connotations for intelligent seapeople. How else would they cure diseases and curses?

You could also incorporate dead water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_water) , red tides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinoflagellate) , and sea sparkle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctiluca_scintillans) for unusual effects of substances in seawater.

[Zolkabro]

Dayzda and Aolius have brought up some very good ideas that I would like to include. I especially love the idea that having a freshwater dip is a religous purification kind of thing.

Also, Debihuman, am I being crazy when I say that my idea is simple enough? Looking at that big block of text it seems a nightmare, but actually it is very simple. I think that what I need to do is phrase it better. Thank you for your idea, but as I said, I like my current one.

[Aeolius]

...my idea is simple enough... Thank you for your idea, but as I said, I like my current one.

It's a pity that there isn't a more centralized location on the web, for those of us obsessed with subaqueous role-playing. It doesn't matter if you run a face-to-face, chat-based, play-by-post, or VTT - there are ideas that we all could share. Some games could be set on home-brewed Water Worlds, others might use published campaign settings, and others still may use rulesets like GURPS or Blue Planet - undersea campaigns are niche enough already. We should collaborate, somehow.

[Dazdya]

I'm not sure I agree. While it's nice to read ideas of people, for me it was fun considering this fresh, and the discovery of what ideas I like is at least as valuable as the end product.

[Debihuman]

Dayzda and Aolius have brought up some very good ideas that I would like to include. I especially love the idea that having a freshwater dip is a religous purification kind of thing.

Also, Debihuman, am I being crazy when I say that my idea is simple enough? Looking at that big block of text it seems a nightmare, but actually it is very simple. I think that what I need to do is phrase it better. Thank you for your idea, but as I said, I like my current one.

Here's the thing: combat won't last in minutes and it is a nightmare for a DM to keep track of. An average combat should last 4-6 rounds. If it is lasting much longer then the party is using too many resources and the CR is too low for the party.

How long does the light last? It sounds like it a permanent light. So having to make a Will save with a d% every round minus the amount of squares is far too complicated with a DM having to keep track every round (when PCs can move in 3 dimensions).

Keeping the check to moving 20 feet closer makes it 6 checks (at 100 ft., at 80 ft., at 60 ft., etc.) as opposed to them moving and having to remember d%-squares. It is far easier to keep track of distance rather than time because of the additional up and down movement. Granted I did not define how the target moves closer but it could be maximum distance closer and that would depend on Swim speed.

Your way, if the PCs are 100 feet from the creature for one round they have a 99% chance of success (or 1% since I'm not sure it is worded properly).

Anything that is easier for the DM to use is better. Monsters are fun to kill but should also be fun to run. Having to make a check every round in addition to the other things the DM has to keep track of is not fun for the DM.

Here is the updated Lure:

Lure (Ex): The dire anglerfish has a bioluminescent lure dangling from a stalk coming out of its skull, which hangs in the square adjacent to the front of the dire anglerfish. It shines light in a 100 ft. cone. All living things in this cone must make a Will saving throw (DC 22) or be compelled to move their maximum movement toward the light. For every 20 feet closer to the anglerfish that a target is, another Will saving throw is made with the DC increasing by +2 until the target is in the same square as the lure. The save is Constitution-based.

Creatures in the square with the lure make a Reflex save (DC 22) every round to avoid the poison that drips from the lure. If they fail, they are poisoned and take 1 point of Strength damage. They also have to make a Reflex save (DC 22) to avoid touching the lure. The saves are Constitution based. Dire anglerfish are immune to their own poison and the poison of other dire anglerfish.

Touching the lure allows the dire anglerfish to make a bite attack as an Attack of Opportunity. The dire anglerfish can still make this Attack of Opportunity even when flat-footed.

Last of all, the dire anglerfish can make a Hide check to conceal itself behind its own lure.

Anyhow, however you decide to make the checks, just keep the poor DM in mind.

Next up will be the Dire Carp (but I'll put it in a new post since this one is getting crowded).

Debby

[Zolkabro]

Uh... Debihuman? When is that Dire Carp critique appearing? It's been three days.

[Deathanyl]

How long does the light last? It sounds like it a permanent light. So having to make a Will save with a d% every round minus the amount of squares is far too complicated with a DM having to keep track every round (when PCs can move in 3 dimensions).


Your way, if the PCs are 100 feet from the creature for one round they have a 99% chance of success (or 1% since I'm not sure it is worded properly).

Anything that is easier for the DM to use is better. Monsters are fun to kill but should also be fun to run. Having to make a check every round in addition to the other things the DM has to keep track of is not fun for the DM.



Anyhow, however you decide to make the checks, just keep the poor DM in mind.

Next up will be the Dire Carp (but I'll put it in a new post since this one is getting crowded).

Debby

I hear here with too much DM-rolling, Have any of you checked out automated rollers and DM tools? I use them all the time but I'm also a non modular buyer so for custom games it takes 90% of the work out of it, land or sea it makes a DM 's job much easier if one is freelancing or playing a mod. I know of a few sites with online rollers for every thing from poof! NPC generators to Instant shops or treasure hordes, saves plenty of time, Ask me for a link and i'll give one not sure it posting one breaks the rules i'm a newbie here.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I posted some underwater races a while back, to replace the standard humans/dwarves/elves setup you see in most settings.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152282&highlight=underwater+races

I haven't gotten around to writing about the actual setting yet, though.

[Debihuman]

Sorry about not getting back to this thread for a while. My mother died recently and yesterday was the interment. I'm okay and ready to get back to some PEACHing.

Dire Carp

Grapple is +3 not +6. (BAB + special size modifier + Strength modifier +6,-4, +1)

Speed -- why does it have a land speed at all?
Speed: Swim 40 ft.

How is it getting x4 on critical hits? The threat range is missing.

Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20)
Full Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20) and tail slap +3 melee (1d2+1)

Special Qualities: it should have low-light vision since all Animals have this unless there is a special reason why it shouldn't.

It has 11 skill points. I have no idea how you assigned the skill points. It could have one skill at max ranks. Creatures with a Swim speed can take 10 on Swim checks see below. Does it have any racial bonuses? I'd give it a +4 racial bonus to Jump.

It should have the following skills section:

Skills: A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.

Debby

[Aeolius]

Sorry about not getting back to this thread for a while. My mother died recently and yesterday was the interment.

My condolences for your loss.

Tonight is game night! While I realize that an undersea mid-level World of Greyhawk chat-based game run at 9pm Eastern isn't everyone's cup of tea, I thought I would invite you to read the weekly recap I post in the weekly blog (http://web.mac.com/aeolius/turucambi/Blog/Blog.html) . In addition to recapping the prior week's adventure I also post topical undersea news and trivia, discuss an unusual beastie or two, and rant about all things aquatic.

[Aeolius]

...for me it was fun considering this fresh, and the discovery of what ideas I like is at least as valuable as the end product.

I understand entirely. I still flip through the pages of OCEAN (http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-American-Museum-Natural-History/dp/0756636922/ref=pd_sim_b_2) from time to time, or watch an episode of Blue Planet (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?id=308833888&s=143441) , finding gems to incorporate into my game.

Still, I have considered establishing a weekly chat, via IRC or mibbit, for those interested in undersea adventures of all kinds to drop by, share ideas, discuss topical events, and explore a discovery or two (I'm till geeking out about an image I found of a fish entrapped within an oyster then entombed within a blister pearl, which I discussed at Canonfire (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4231) ). Thursday nights work for everyone? :)

[Zolkabro]

I understand entirely. I still flip through the pages of OCEAN (http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-American-Museum-Natural-History/dp/0756636922/ref=pd_sim_b_2) from time to time, or watch an episode of Blue Planet (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?id=308833888&s=143441) , finding gems to incorporate into my game.

Still, I have considered establishing a weekly chat, via IRC or mibbit, for those interested in undersea adventures of all kinds to drop by, share ideas, discuss topical events, and explore a discovery or two (I'm till geeking out about an image I found of a fish entrapped within an oyster then entombed within a blister pearl, which I discussed at Canonfire (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4231) ). Thursday nights work for everyone? :)

I'm afraid that Thurdays don't work for me, but that does sound like a very good idea.


Sorry about not getting back to this thread for a while. My mother died recently and yesterday was the interment. I'm okay and ready to get back to some PEACHing.

Dire Carp

Grapple is +3 not +6. (BAB + special size modifier + Strength modifier +6,-4, +1)

Speed -- why does it have a land speed at all?
Speed: Swim 40 ft.

How is it getting x4 on critical hits? The threat range is missing.

Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20)
Full Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20) and tail slap +3 melee (1d2+1)

Special Qualities: it should have low-light vision since all Animals have this unless there is a special reason why it shouldn't.

It has 11 skill points. I have no idea how you assigned the skill points. It could have one skill at max ranks. Creatures with a Swim speed can take 10 on Swim checks see below. Does it have any racial bonuses? I'd give it a +4 racial bonus to Jump.

It should have the following skills section:

Skills: A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.

Debby

First of all, I am sorry for your loss, and my apologies for nagging. I hope you and your relatives recover soon. I have been lucky enough never to have to go through losing a relative (except for as a baby), but I know from friends how hard it is and I completely understand if it means you have little time to help me. Don't feel under pressure.
Secondly, I am under time pressure right now and am not able to sort out Dire Carp, but I will as soon as I can. Thank you.

[Zolkabro]

Sorry about not getting back to this thread for a while. My mother died recently and yesterday was the interment. I'm okay and ready to get back to some PEACHing.

Dire Carp

Grapple is +3 not +6. (BAB + special size modifier + Strength modifier +6,-4, +1)

Speed -- why does it have a land speed at all?
Speed: Swim 40 ft.

How is it getting x4 on critical hits? The threat range is missing.

Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20)
Full Attack: Bite: +8 melee (1d6+1/17-20) and tail slap +3 melee (1d2+1)

Special Qualities: it should have low-light vision since all Animals have this unless there is a special reason why it shouldn't.

It has 11 skill points. I have no idea how you assigned the skill points. It could have one skill at max ranks. Creatures with a Swim speed can take 10 on Swim checks see below. Does it have any racial bonuses? I'd give it a +4 racial bonus to Jump.

It should have the following skills section:

Skills: A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.

Debby

I've done the editing. Very sorry it took so long, things have been busy these past few days.
Also, seeing as everything has a swim speed, I've been treating that entry in the skills section as default and haven't really bothered to note it down in things.
Thanks!
Any other things you want to point out, or shall we move on to the environment?

Also, the environment itself is the bit I've never homebrewed one before, so I'm a little unsure as to what exactly needs to be written. Is there a template on the forums?

[Dazdya]

About designing environments, here's my rules (actually, the rules are about preparing in general):

1 - remember it's a game, so design for your players.
2 - don't prepare more than you need.
3 - whenever you design something, design a secret.

Rule 1 reminds me that a setting might be wonderful to me, but it needs to be played in. That means I need to leave room for the players to make their mark. Maybe a player would like to introduce a certain religion, or wants to put their mark on underwater farming, who knows, players are unpredictable. Leave them gaps that you can fill with adventure.

Rule 2 is almost an extension, but it's more practical. I have practised various approaches to preparation over the years, and most of those have left stacks of notes unused. But once you set a part of the setting in concrete, on paper or only in your head, you can get fixated on it. In the beginning of the campaign, make sure you give your players time to breathe it in a bit. It could give you the feedback to finetune your idea before the concrete sets.

Rule 3 is something I think I saw in a magazine somewhere, and it works well. If you want to make sure you remember (for instance) your innkeeper, give him a little story. He could be quite secretive because he has a son in the basement who is a werecreature of some sort, or maybe that is in the past. This little story doesn't automatically create more adventure, but whenever you need that npc, your mind often 'snaps' back to the story behind him. Knowing his background often helps you remember what voice you used, or other little details. Human brains suck at remembering details unless we have a little stoy to link them. This method works for me in memorizing npc's, places, artefacts, religions, and for most other things.

By now I realise that I have never answered your question about the environment. Silly me.

If I would do this (so feel free to ignore), I would suggest placing the characters in a scene before their creation. For instance, several coral fields have recently been laid bare in this outpost the characters are in, so that the shepherds of sillyfish herds have been forced to take them lower, to darker areas with more predators.
This little scene gives loads of options without being specific. Your players can decide how their characters got there, or they can pick skills to hunt sillyfish-eating predators. Maybe they're from a line of shepherds themselves. They can immediately place them into the environment (rule 1), you can have instant adventures examining the bare coral, or protection the herds, without you needing loads of background (rule 2), and only you know that the darkshark king has bribed an npc to destroy the fields, in order to lure the sillyfish to darker waters.

Ok, maybe the names are too silly. :P

And maybe I still haven't answered your question. Please let us know if this is what you were asking. :)

[Zolkabro]

About designing environments, here's my rules (actually, the rules are about preparing in general):

1 - remember it's a game, so design for your players.
2 - don't prepare more than you need.
3 - whenever you design something, design a secret.

Rule 1 reminds me that a setting might be wonderful to me, but it needs to be played in. That means I need to leave room for the players to make their mark. Maybe a player would like to introduce a certain religion, or wants to put their mark on underwater farming, who knows, players are unpredictable. Leave them gaps that you can fill with adventure.

Rule 2 is almost an extension, but it's more practical. I have practised various approaches to preparation over the years, and most of those have left stacks of notes unused. But once you set a part of the setting in concrete, on paper or only in your head, you can get fixated on it. In the beginning of the campaign, make sure you give your players time to breathe it in a bit. It could give you the feedback to finetune your idea before the concrete sets.

Rule 3 is something I think I saw in a magazine somewhere, and it works well. If you want to make sure you remember (for instance) your innkeeper, give him a little story. He could be quite secretive because he has a son in the basement who is a werecreature of some sort, or maybe that is in the past. This little story doesn't automatically create more adventure, but whenever you need that npc, your mind often 'snaps' back to the story behind him. Knowing his background often helps you remember what voice you used, or other little details. Human brains suck at remembering details unless we have a little stoy to link them. This method works for me in memorizing npc's, places, artefacts, religions, and for most other things.

By now I realise that I have never answered your question about the environment. Silly me.

If I would do this (so feel free to ignore), I would suggest placing the characters in a scene before their creation. For instance, several coral fields have recently been laid bare in this outpost the characters are in, so that the shepherds of sillyfish herds have been forced to take them lower, to darker areas with more predators.
This little scene gives loads of options without being specific. Your players can decide how their characters got there, or they can pick skills to hunt sillyfish-eating predators. Maybe they're from a line of shepherds themselves. They can immediately place them into the environment (rule 1), you can have instant adventures examining the bare coral, or protection the herds, without you needing loads of background (rule 2), and only you know that the darkshark king has bribed an npc to destroy the fields, in order to lure the sillyfish to darker waters.

Ok, maybe the names are too silly. :P

And maybe I still haven't answered your question. Please let us know if this is what you were asking. :)

What you said is useful, but it hasn't exactly answered my question.

Let me word it a little differently:
I am now starting to design the environment. How do I set out the information, and where do I start?

Also, does anyone know a mac-friendly application good for drawing maps? I would like to create a large map of the ocean when we have finished working out what is where.

[Zolkabro]

I personally use a wiki set up, though that doesn't necessarily mean a wiki per say. Make a folder on your computer, work on individual files that address small portions of setting as you see fit, and fit them together later.

Concerning the map, I use inkscape. I'm not a very good artist by any stretch of the imagination, but with a mere 10 minutes I can get something like this:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/alchemquest/images/2/22/Alchemquest_Core_Map.png


I use inkscape regularly, and have been using it for a long time. I love drawing on it, and I am sure I would be able to produce a map lke the one you have produced, a bird's eye view with borderlines marked in.

But I was asking for an application designed for making proper maps, Odinance Survey style.

[Knaight]

But I was asking for an application designed for making proper maps, Odinance Survey style.

What is your budget for this? Similarly, a general picture of the specific kind of map you want to imitate would be helpful -though I imagine you could manage most of them in a generic drawing program of some sort-

[Zolkabro]

What is your budget for this? Similarly, a general picture of the specific kind of map you want to imitate would be helpful -though I imagine you could manage most of them in a generic drawing program of some sort-

My budget is as low as possible, and the kind of map I mean is like a map you might find in an Ordinance Survey mapbook. Non-British people won't know what that is, so just google it.
I mean kind of professional, proper maps. I'm doing a really bad job of explaining it, but I mean that I want to do a proper map, not just a picture.
Does that make sense?

[Knaight]

My budget is as low as possible, and the kind of map I mean is like a map you might find in an Ordinance Survey mapbook. Non-British people won't know what that is, so just google it.
I mean kind of professional, proper maps. I'm doing a really bad job of explaining it, but I mean that I want to do a proper map, not just a picture.
Does that make sense?

I know you mean proper map and not just a picture. That leaves out a bunch of data. Does elevation need to show up (a quick google image search makes it appear to be a no, but I may have just been looking at a very flat area), is there any data on climate indicated on these maps or just terrain, etc.

[Aeolius]

Also, does anyone know a mac-friendly application good for drawing maps? ... an application designed for making proper maps, Odinance Survey style.
A bit of googling turned up Ortelius (http://www.mapdiva.com/ortelius/)

[Hyudra]

A source of inspiration might include the indie game Aquaria (http://www.bit-blot.com/aquaria/). Kind of a (as a youtube commenter puts it) like a mix between Ecco the Dolphin and Zelda.

The environments are beautiful, and it really goes to show just how alien the deep sea can be.

A Let's Play of the game starts here, for those who are curious but don't wish to purchase it: Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FYbsWVorTg)

[Aeolius]

A source of inspiration might include the indie game Aquaria...The environments are beautiful, and it really goes to show just how alien the deep sea can be.
The soundtrack is wonderful, as well.

[Dazdya]

There is of course always Pro Fantasy's Campaign cartographer.

[Aeolius]

There is of course always Pro Fantasy's Campaign cartographer.

Which, as it requires Windows, is not Mac-friendly.

[Zolkabro]

A bit of googling turned up Ortelius (http://www.mapdiva.com/ortelius/)

Ortelius seems perfect. I'll experiment with it and see if it is what I wanted.
I think that seeing as it costs $100, I'm not going to buy the full version. Annoying though they are, a watermark is no big problem.

So, what shall we do first, mechanics of the environment, fluff and history, or geography?
I would like to do the last two first, but if anyone thinks that is a bad order to do it in just say. EDIT: Actually, I would definitely prefer to do the geography first, because it is hard to work out the history and culture of countries that don't exist yet.

[Aeolius]

Actually, I would definitely prefer to do the geography first, because it is hard to work out the history and culture of countries that don't exist yet.

That's one reason I've used the World of Greyhawk for my campaign setting of choice, for all of my online games (save for one set in Hades) since 1995. I can utilize the maps, history, climate, politics, religion, and sites of interest as a springboard. Mind you, not a lot has been written about the undersea realms, which is just as I like it.

Granted the Sinking Isle, Turucambi Reef, and Jungle of Lost ships are all canon Greyhawk references - but I put my own unique spin on them all.

[Dazdya]

That's one reason I've used the World of Greyhawk for my campaign setting of choice, for all of my online games (save for one set in Hades) since 1995. I can utilize the maps, history, climate, politics, religion, and sites of interest as a springboard. Mind you, not a lot has been written about the undersea realms, which is just as I like it.

Granted the Sinking Isle, Turucambi Reef, and Jungle of Lost ships are all canon Greyhawk references - but I put my own unique spin on them all.

Aeolius has a good point. Most maps ignore undersea environment. If you use one of those maps as a starting point, you can add currents (seasonal or not) where they seem to fit, just like reefs, trade routes, trenches etc. And the players may never even recognise the original map if you simply trace the coastline. I'll remember that trick.

[Debihuman]

Dire Walrus looks like it should be Swim speed at 40 ft. but I'm not sure what the land speed would be. A standard walrus (see Frostburn pg. 166) has a land speed of 10 feet. I'd give a Dire version +5 to land speed and +10 to Swim as you did.

Speed: Land 15 (3 squares), Swim 40 ft.

Like a standard walrus, a dire walrus should be able to hold its breath. This is a standard ability in the SRD.

Hold Breath (Ex):A dire walrus can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 8 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning.

I think Insulated needs a bit more work. It should have Cold Resistance (not immunity) 10 or 15 as it is an Animal not a Magical Beast.

Body Slam should probably be renamed "Crush" as that is a standard attack and especially since you use that term in the text.

One more thing: change Darkvision 60 ft. to low-light vision. Animals normally get low-light vision not darkvision. Walruses are not deep divers according to Wikipedia so giving them low-light vision should be sufficient.

Otherwise, it looks good.

Debby

[hamishspence]

Dragonlance had walrusfolk. And I wonder if anyone's ever played a were-walrus?

[Aeolius]

I recently considered making seawolves:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90760.jpg

more like wolffish:
http://www.thejump.net/id/pics/wolffish.jpg

[hamishspence]

Would be an interesting difference.

The idea of merfolk of a wide range of "fish types" has been raised before in these threads- but not fishy-looking seawolves.

[Mutazoia]

Dragonlance had walrusfolk. And I wonder if anyone's ever played a were-walrus?

Were-walrus? You might want to take a look at this (http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20070916) :smallbiggrin:

[Zolkabro]

I'm sorry to say that once again I have forgotten about this thread. Sorry.

Anyway, I've decided that I would like to go with Aeolius' suggestion of using the seas of a pre-existing world. I've decided to go with the world on which Tolkein's works are set, Arda:
(I'm not sure when in the history of Arda this should be, so here are maps from two different eras. We can decide which one to use at a later date.)
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/maps/arda3.gif
http://www.tolkienforums.com/map%20of%20Arda.jpg

I don't know how much anyone knows about the lands beyond Middle Earth, where Lord of the Rings is set, so I'm just gonna explain about them just in case anyone doesn't know.

Basically, the concept behind Arda is that thousands of years ago, the world was flat. There was Middle Earth and other places in the centre, and to the west was Aman, a land of intensely brainy and magical people.
It is from there that the Istari (the wizards, inluding Gandalf) came from, and where the rings came from, and where all magic comes from. After the events of Lord of the Rings, Aman breaks off from the rest of the world. It has fulfilled it's purpose in defeating the Shadow, and so it leaves. Arda becomes round, the continents are reshaped as time goes on, and it becomes the earth we know today. You can see the similarities between the shape of our world and Arda.
But even though Earth and Aman had been completely seperated, the elves still had a way to go between Aman and Earth at will. This is how the White Ship got to Aman. This route is called the Straight Road. They go west from Middle Earth, but instead of their route curving along the face of the earth, it carries on in a perfectly straight line through space, till it reaches Aman.

So, Arda is basically an incredibly detailed land, with all sorts of magical islands and different seas and rugged coastlines that would all be perfect for this.

Here is a page with maps of absolutely everywhere in Arda, including all the islands and oceans. (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/maps.html)
Ignore all the inland places, but every ocean, sea, bay, reef, etc, I would like to create stuff about.

Currently, places that are already planned are some sort of obsidean and glass realm which was created in the old thread, a city biult out of coral, and places for each race.
The obsidean realm was to be built around a land full of underwater volcanos. Everything is like blown glass, with obsidean making the shapes of everything, even where people live. Look in the original thread for more details. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6715870#post6715870)
So, maybe a sea/ocean where everything was made of glass and obsidean like he said, around hot geysers. This is perhaps the favourite idea I have for places.

Now, I decided that instead of having a realm for the Cephalofolk, I thought they could be a sort of nomad race. However, the other races still need places.

I was thinking that maybe the Kokrulis could have some sort of huge library inspired by the buried library in Avatar: The Last Airbender. Not the oh-god-can-it-be-any-worse movie, but the original anime which was really good. Anyway, at one point they enter this huge library with information on absolutely everything, but it is guarded by a fearsome creature, who only lets you in to study and then out again if it is for good intentions. If you use the knowledge you have found to harm anyone he will make sure you can never harm anyone every again, either by killing you or trapping you in the endless library forever.
Something like that would suit the Kokrulis. They are guardians of great secrets, but only those who have come to study simply in the pursuit of knowledge have these secrets shared with them. Those who wish to use this knowledge against others, will find nothing but despair in these shelves.
This should maybe be around the enchanted isles, or numenor.

Nix, I don't know, I always imagined them in smallers seas, lakes, estuaries, and other shallows. I really don't know other than that.

The Krazanio and Xixanio maybe could be waging war across the Enegaer, with Krazanio in the South and Xixanio in the North. I always planned for these races to be bitter rivals. Nobody remembers exactly how this eaons-long war began, but everybody knows that the entire other race are all evil scumbags who have been murdering their people for generations.

Saepia could maybe be in the South of the Belegaer, the Great Sea. I think they should have the coral cities. So, an entire reef would have been created, grown, pruned, etc, it would be the home to all the Saepia. I sort of imagined Saepia as like gnomes or dwarves, in that they make good clerics and often live underground. So, they could live inside the huge labrynth-like coral reefs.

And the Sahaguin was made by somebody else on the old thread, and I barely rewrote it, so I don't really know. Unlike the others, I don't have a clear image of this one. So I'm not really sure how it would live.

Anyway, sorry about disappearing without a word.

[Zolkabro]

Okay, this is gonna sound really dumb, but you know how in Finding Nemo, the turtles migrating path was like a tube of lighter coloured water, that marked the way? Is that just in Finding Nemo, or is it real? If it's real, it is now our roads. If it is fake, then I feel really dumb.

And I've written a draft copy of fluff descriptions for two of the areas. I'm gonna edit them a bit, then post them.

[hamishspence]

Fast currents are probably not that dramatic- but they do exist. I doubt they would stand out visually though.

[Zolkabro]

Fast currents are probably not that dramatic- but they do exist. I doubt they would stand out visually though.

Excellent.
So, these will be roads.

I hope to have the environment descriptions up soon.

[Dazdya]

You should keep in mind that the people who live there have evolved in that environment. Even if the currents don't visually stand out, thy will have some way to sense them. Perhaps by temperature, or how much light filters through, who knows. The problem is that you're not telling that to these creatures, but to the players. And the players are just humans, with hardly any racial bonuses.

I would suggest referring to their characters' special senses only once in every while, but most of the time just describing what they 'see'.

[Hyudra]

You should keep in mind that the people who live there have evolved in that environment. Even if the currents don't visually stand out, thy will have some way to sense them. Perhaps by temperature, or how much light filters through, who knows. The problem is that you're not telling that to these creatures, but to the players. And the players are just humans, with hardly any racial bonuses.

I would suggest referring to their characters' special senses only once in every while, but most of the time just describing what they 'see'.

My guess would be that it'd involve the sense of touch more than anything. Whiskers, fins, tendrils, spines, or some combination of such would let a Sea Elf, Merfolk or whatever get a sense of the water currents around them.