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AzazelSephiroth
2010-06-24, 03:40 PM
Hey everyone I am hoping the masterminds of the boards could help a player build a Pathfinder bard who is both a skills master and a martial bada@#! :smallsmile:

We rolled stats and I have Human noble
STR18
DEX16
CON14
INT18
WIS16
CHA20 (xtra +2 from human in pathfinder)
Feats- Two weapon fighting, Arcane Strike
Character Traits- Heirloom weapon (father's Bastard Sword, when weilding his father's mast. bastard sword he is prof and gets a +1 to hit-note only his father's sword counts however)

Now I am only allowed Pathfinder Core Rule Book for now but may be able to access more books later 3. editions and such.
So what I am asking for is can anyone give me a build/progression up to lv 10 or even higher that shows off a character able to do some serious damage with two-weapons in combat and still keep his ability to be the Jack-of-all-skills that the Bard naturally is.
Notes he is going to be the ruler in Paizo's Kingmaker Adventure Path and I wanted him to be a Noble, Rightous, Arrogant Hero type who can actually back up his pretentious-ness lol I prefer TWF over TH or Sword/board and he already has access to a personal Bastard Sword from his character trait.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and help guys you all rock!!

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-24, 04:25 PM
Unfortunately, the Pathfinder bard doesn't qualify for most of the awesome feats available to bardic music. But if you can, try to multiclass into crusader later on (from Tome of Battle). It segues incredibly well with bard, as do a few levels in marshal (from the Miniature's Handbook).

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-24, 05:12 PM
If your DM will allow Bardic Performance to count as Bardic Music, Versatile Performer (from CAdv) would so be worth it to you, especially at higher levels. Ranks in one Perform count as ranks in all Performs? And for ranks in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Intimidate, Handle Animal, and more? Oh yeah baby, yeah.

Also, it's not Pathfinder-specific, and a lot of the feats aren't compatible with Bardic Performance, but: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 05:31 PM
If your DM will allow Bardic Performance to count as Bardic Music, Versatile Performer (from CAdv) would so be worth it to you, especially at higher levels. Ranks in one Perform count as ranks in all Performs? And for ranks in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Intimidate, Handle Animal, and more? Oh yeah baby, yeah.

Also, it's not Pathfinder-specific, and a lot of the feats aren't compatible with Bardic Performance, but: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0

Bardic Performance is the exact conversion of bard music, while also letting you perform as a mime.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-24, 05:53 PM
Bardic Performance is the exact conversion of bard music, while also letting you perform as a mime.Bardic Performance gives you X rounds per day, while Bardic Music gives you infinite rounds per day (for some musics), but only one type of music per activation.

For instance, my bard 3 only gets 3 Bardic Musics per day, but each inspire courage he uses can be active for as long as he chooses to keep playing (or singing, or dancing, or yakking it up).

A lot of Bardic Music feats require you to expend uses, which Bardic Performance doesn't have.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 05:58 PM
Err, that doesn't change the activation mechanic. You're still spending uses.

If spending a single round sounds too cheap, have the feat consume more than one round.
It's not like bards can't sing anymore, the mechanic just got reviewed

Mongoose87
2010-06-24, 06:23 PM
Err, that doesn't change the activation mechanic. You're still spending uses.

If spending a single round sounds too cheap, have the feat consume more than one round.
It's not like bards can't sing anymore, the mechanic just got reviewed

Reviewed is putting it nicely. Bards got screwed. Barbarians, also.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 06:27 PM
A bad revision is still a revision :p

Mark Hall
2010-06-26, 12:47 PM
You have awesome stats.

That said, one of your first feats should probably be Arcane Strike. You don't need it nearly as much, but free magic on any weapon is nice, as is the +1/five levels in damage. You're going to want the two-weapon line of feats, as well.

A level dip I would suggest is Ranger... one or two levels. One level gets you a Favored Enemy (if it's mostly a human campaign, Favored Enemy: Human is an awesome bonus). Two levels gets you a "free" TWF feat. Because of the nature of Pathfinder skills, you don't lose much more than spell advancement from this... your skills go up like normal, and you've got some more offensive ability.

QuantumSteve
2010-06-26, 05:11 PM
Firstly, doing "serious" damage with TWF is hard if you're not a Rogue, or don't have a dozen Fighter feats to blow. That said, you can still make a decent melee-er.

Power Attack is good in PF in that it applies to light weapons (albeit at half bonus). Arcane Strike is a must, and Double Slice might be a good feat if you pump your Strength. +2 extra damage w/ your off-hand isn't worth it. +4 extra damage with a 24 Str is a lot better. Two-Weapon Rend is good, but it's feat intensive and requires Bab of +11.

The Critical Tree has many good feats as well, but doesn't come into play until 10th level.

As for Classes, I'm a fan of straight Bard for Bardic Performance. Dragon Disciple is good, though. Ranger dip for TWF, Fighter dip for feats, or Rogue dip for Sneak Attack are all viable as well.

Don't forget spells. Treantmonk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2) has a good run down of all the Bard's spells.


IMO, with your high stats, I'd build an archery based bard that uses a big sword for up close. Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim, and Power Attack. Fighter dip for Rapid Shot or Cleave. Come to think of it, Treantmonk's Ranger Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/treantmonk-s-guide-to-rangers) has some good tips for this fighting style.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-26, 09:25 PM
Given how little you can use it at low levels, I wouldn't bother with Inspire Courage optimization until later levels, because you're not going to be able to use it much. You get more spells, and you're a much better skillmonkey; perhaps you should focus on that, instead.

To that end, perhaps toss in some factotum? Factotum 3 is an incredibly useful dip for Int-based builds, meaning you'll get Cha and Int to a LOT of stuff.

Also look into a crystal echoblade, if you plan on getting a lot of bard levels. 1/2 your bard level as sonic damage is not a bad deal at all. Toss on some nice weapon crystals and the Snowflake War Dance feat, and you'll be dealing some good damage, though you won't have to get into the TWF trap. However, unless you have 3 or more hands, you won't be able to THF either.

Maybe shape a soulmeld or two for a claw and bite attack?

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-27, 01:44 PM
Pathfinder bards gain a bonus on their Knowledge checks based on their bard level.

Knowledge Devotion will improve your attack and damage even further.

Toss on the Obscure Lore feat (from Complete Adventurer) for an additional +4 to all Knowledge checks.

Add in the Collector of Stories skill trick (from Complete Scoundrel) for an extra +5 to all Knowledge checks for the purposes of I.D.ing creatures and their weaknesses and abilities in combat.

Paul H
2010-06-29, 09:01 AM
Hi

Have you thought of Bard 5/Dragon Disciple xxx? Dragon Disciples MUCH harder in Pathfinder, 7/10 caster progression, bonus spells, bonus feats, poly into dragons....... Plus the usual stat increases, breath weapon, nat armour increases, etc etc.

Will spend minutes converting for you

Cheers
Paul H

Paul H
2010-06-29, 09:08 AM
Hi

Of course, you could try Bard/Paladin/Dragon Disciple, or Sorceror/Paladin/Dragon Disciple.........

Thanks
Paul H
NOTE: Bards don't have alignment restrictions any more :smallsmile:

Paul H
2010-06-29, 09:36 AM
Hi

Bard 3/Paladin 2/Dragon Disciple 5

With above starting stats, at 10th lvl you'll have Str 22 (DD), Cha 22 (lvl increases).

Suggested Feats: TWF, Arcane Strike, Exotic Wpn (Bastard Sword), Double Strike, Dodge.
Bonus Feats: Toughness, Blind Fight.

Note that you can 'grow' claws for 3+cha mod rnds/day, doing D4+Str. When you do also gain Bite attack diong D6+ (1 1/2 STr mod).

However........
Really badass is Sorc 3/Pal2/DD5 :smallcool:

Cheers
Paul H

Critical
2010-06-29, 10:03 AM
PF's Arcane Archer is pretty good, so I'd go Bard/Arcane Archer, maybe with a 2 level Paladin dip.

Paul H
2010-06-29, 10:37 AM
Hi

OK - here's the monster.......

Sor 3/Pal 2/Dragon Disciple 5 (Brass Dragon)

Note Smite Evil & Lay on Hands work differently now.

Smite: Add CHa mod to hit, Pal lvl to dam for all attacks. Lasts until either you or victim go down. Also add Cha mod as deflection bonus to AC vs your victim. Double bonus damage to Evil Outsiders or Undead.
Lay On Hands: In this case 3+Cha Mod times/day. Heals D6 HP

As at Lvl 10 (unbuffed)
Str 22 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 16 Cha 22
Claws/Bite gained as free action. Usable 3+cha mod times/day.

BAB 6
Saves F 15 R 12 W 18
HP 10+D10+3D6+5D12+20+10 (93 HP)? [Used Sor favoured class bonus as skill pts]
AC Lt Armour bonus +7 (Nat Armour+3, Dex, Dodge)

Feats:
Two Wpn Fighting, Arcane Strike, Dodge, Arcane Armour Training, Exotic Wpn Bastard Sword, Double Strike.
Bonus Feats: Toughness, Blindfight, Improved Initiative, SF Fly

Breath Wpn 1/Day 60' Line Fire. 8D6 Ref DC 20 for half
Full Attack:
2 x Claws +12. Dam D6+6 (magic). Bite +12 D8+9 or
Bastard Sword (+1) Attack +11/+6 Dam D10 +7. Short Sword (+1) +11 Dam D6+7
Note: These do Not include buffs like Bull Str, nor Arcane Strike feat (+2 dam)
Blindsense 30'
Resist Fire 5

Spells Known:
0) Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Acid Splash, Meding, Light, Ghost Sound
1) Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Grease, Colour Spray
2) Scorching Ray, Bull's Strength
3) Haste
Bonus Spells: Mage Armour, Resist Energy, Fly

Thanks
Paul H

Another_Poet
2010-06-29, 10:49 AM
With 18 Str and special Bastard Sword bonuses, I highly encourage you to wield the bastard sword 2-handed and take Power Attack instead of Two Weapon Fighting.

You will hit more often and do a lot of damage. This will be way better at low levels. At higher levels you could take Exotic Weapn: Bast Swd to 1-hand that thing and take TWF with a whip or shortsword or whatever in the offhand. You will be able to hit with TWF more reliably at higher levels although it is probably still not optimal.

ap

Paul H
2010-06-29, 11:21 AM
Hi

Actually, AP does have a ppoint. Use the B/Sword 2H, saves you 2 feats. You can still go TWF with the Sor/Pal/Drag Disc build I listed.

At lvl 10 with Smite, Pwr Attack & Arcane Strike going, you'll be:

2xClaws Attack +16: Dam D6+14
Bite +16: Dam D8+19

All attacks ignore DR of any sort.

And that's you backup attack mode vs end of lvl Evil Sucker!
(And unbuffed at lvl 10)

Cheers
Paul H