Sorcerer OR Psionics?

[Abaddon87]

Greetings Playgrounders! I am looking to start a new Gestalt character and I am wanting to play a caster type character who incorporates Master of the Unseen Hand and Rage Mage (both from Comp Warrior). My DM lets us PRC on both sides at the same time.

What I want to know is if it would be better to play as a sorcerer or as a psionics base (or maybe both since its Gestalt)? What would you guys suggest for the other side of the build? Basically, Im going for a NE/CE caster type (most likely human but maybe elan?) who gets upset very easily and destroys things with his mind/inherent magical prowess. I would focus mostly on telekinesis to do my destruction and killing (or other similar spells/powers). Almost like Carie, without the blood soaked prom dress... I dont want to play a wizard or any type of logical arcane class, just pure anger and destruction that flows from said angry person who happens to wield magic/psychic power.

P.S. I know this is not a optimized 1 Hit KO build and I will lack the utility of a wizard, but thats okay with me. I play characters I have fun playing, not to show everyone how good I am at making cheese :smallsmile:

P.P.S. I dont have the Psionics Handbook or Comp Psionics but a friend of mine does so please reference your thoughts so I can look them up as well.

Thanks in advance!

[Eldariel]

Psionics are more versatile and allow you to burn all your PP on Telekinesis if you so desire, while Sorc will have a limit on which slots can cast it. Go with Psionics for this type of a thing.

[Optimystik]

Actually, you DO have the Psionics Handbook - 90% of it is available free on the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)

As for your idea... you're probably better off with a sorcerer than a psion or wilder. MotUH requires Telekinesis, and psionics doesn't get it - instead, they get the spell broken into three rather mediocre powers, a fact which makes me endlessly rage :smallannoyed:

PrC into Wild Mage on your sorcerer side as soon as possible (Sorcerer has no class features) and use the Chaos Magic mechanic to represent losing your temper.

@ Eldariel - you have a good point about burning the PP, but since the DM seems fine with psionics, perhaps the OP could be a Spell Point (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) sorcerer for the same benefit? The mechanics are almost identical.

[Abaddon87]

Any thoughts on using both? Have the Psi side go with MotUH adapted to psionics since its only a 5 lvl PRC and have the Sorc PRC into Rage Mage as its 10 lvls?

Also, Im thinking that this character could almost totally focus on CHA and CON as attributes for casting/manifesting and to improve the rage duration. Is that correct?

Lastly, are there any spells/powers like telekinesis (both higher and lower level) or that might fit the feel of this character I might want to look at?

Thanks again!

[Abaddon87]

WOW thanks for that link! I'll look at that and see if I find anything. I can see what you mean about the telekinesis being different for the two sides. I must say I like Sorc because they get a ton of spells/day and I picture this character using a spell at the drop of a hat. Very thin on the self control if you know what Im saying :smallamused:. I just like the psionics because well, its actually the persons brain doing the destruction!

[Optimystik]

Sorcerer does have the problem Eldariel mentioned, where you can't actually do your Jean Grey thing until level 10 and even then none of your lower-level slots will help you. A Wilder at least gets some version of telekinesis 4 levels earlier, and can use all its Power Points on the TK moves.

You don't have a lot of powers known, but you seem to only want to do one thing anyway so that shouldn't be a huge issue. And because all three powers are augmentable, your Wild Surge feature will get a lot of mileage. Have fun tossing Ogres around :smalltongue:

You can get boost your PK a bit by using the Educated Wilder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) variant, which gets up to 16 powers known instead of 11. It trades away your weakest class feature too!

[Keld Denar]

Spellcasting is the thing that keeps you strongest, so make sure that no matter what, you ALWAYS keep progressing your spellcasting. I'd do something like this:

Half Orc

Sorcerer1//1/2 Orc Paladin of Slaughter1 (using the Racial Sub in Races of Destiny, an CE Pally in the SRD)
Sorcerer2//Pally2
Sorcerer3//Pally3
Sorcerer4//Pally4
Sorcerer5//Barbarian1
Wildmage1//RageMage1
Ragemage2//MotUH1
Wildmage2//RageMage3
RageMage4//MotUH2
Wildmage3//RageMage5
RageMage6//MotUH3
Wildmage4//RageMage7
RageMage8//MotUH4
Wildmage5//RageMage9
RageMage10//MotUH5

Thats a 15 level build that gives you 15th level Sorcerer casting, full MotUH progression, full Rage Mage progression, and some Wildmage goodies. You also get Cha to saves, Turn Undead to power martial divine feats like Divine Might, Travel Devotion, or Chaos Devotion, Rage, Spellrage, and half orc Righteous Fury. Take Extra Rage 1-2 times and you'll have enough RAWR to go through every encounter.

(I know that this build is normally illegal by gestalt rules, but the OP specified that he can take 2 PrCs at one time)

Good?

[Prime32]

Select "Psi-Spell" on the left and press Find. (http://www.realmshelps.org/datafind/feats.shtml)

Hyperconcious has a PrC for psion/barbarians which is better than rage mage. I'm not sure why you'd want to boost your Strength when you're fighting telekinetically though, and you're also gimping your spellcasting.


The best entry for Master of the Unseen Hand is two levels of the ghost savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) (note that the web SPs don't force you to take every level).

[Abaddon87]

Its a good point Prime, but I plan on playing a living person :smallbiggrin:

As far as the Wilder class, where is that? Is it for psi or sorc?

I liked the build Denar, I had the same thought of taking two paladin levels to get CHA to my saves! Dont know about the Half Orc though, Im pretty partial to Human.

[Keld Denar]

Please, call me Keld.

Wilders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm) are to psionics what sorcerers are to magic. They also have a build in Overchannel ability called Wild Surge, which is fun.

I only recommended half orc because Races of Destiny has a racial sub for half orc paladins that gives you another "rage" ability instead of smite. You can also take Orc Paragon levels (Unearthed Arcana) for another "rage" ability. Technically, since they are all different, you can use them all at the same time, and Extra Rage will give you an extra use of each one.

[Prime32]

Its a good point Prime, but I plan on playing a living person :smallbiggrin:The_Mad_Linguist once played an Expy of Archer from Fate/stay night using the class. His incorporeality was reflavoured as resistance to non-magical weapons. Since there's a feat which lets living creatures be healed by negative energy (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Tomb-tainted_Soul), it's not too much of a stretch to allow the opposite.


Wilders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm) are to psionics what sorcerers are to magic. They also have a build in Overchannel ability called Wild Surge, which is fun.The gap between psions and wilders is larger than the one between wizards and sorcerers, and psionic are already a little lower down the power scale.

The more levels you have in wilder, the more likely that using your only class feature will cripple you (and a psion can get an equivalent ability via a feat which does not carry this risk). Plus your list of powers known is very small (11 vs the psion's 36 and the psychic warrior's 20).

[Abaddon87]

Sorry Keld, and thanks for the info!

[Optimystik]

The more levels you have in wilder, the more likely that using your only class feature will cripple you (and a psion can get an equivalent ability via a feat which does not carry this risk). Plus your list of powers known is very small (11 vs the psion's 36 and the psychic warrior's 20).

Actually Prime, the Wilder can choose how high to Surge each time, so there are no disadvantages to continuing Wild Surge progression. You are not forced to use the maximum.

@ OP: I second Keld's build. Normally I am all about psionics, but the poor TK power they get will cripple this concept. Instead, use the Spell Point variant (I linked it earlier) and Wild Mage to get all the crunch of being a Wilder without too much mix-and-matching, and allow you to use your lower-level "slots" to fuel more TKs.

Now, if your buddy with the psionics books has Hyperconscious, everything changes; be a Wilder and take Cerebral Rager (the PrC Prime was referring to), ditching Rage Mage and Paladin/Barbarian completely.

[Eldariel]

Hm, actually, even without Spell Points, I suppose you could take Versatile Spellcaster-feat and profit somewhat. I still prefer Psionics for versatility and specific use, but in this particular case, it is true that they are less than ideal due to the poor state of Psionic Telekinesis. It's not like the arcane version were broken in the first place :smallconfused:

[Abaddon87]

Very cool all. Thanks! I'm readying this toon in case my current character dies. Its just me and my other buddy and the DM. We are both Gestalt characters and we have three NPC "Followers" we found on day one. Were only third level but I can tell its gonna be a rough game.

Edit: Okay the Cerebral Rager is almost exactly the feel I was going for. Is the psi TK really that much worse than the arcane? Or maybe my DM could mod the MotUH and the arcane TK to work with psionics?

[Ranos]

The_Mad_Linguist once played an Expy of Archer from Fate/stay night using the class.
Huh. I wouldn't mind seeing that build.

[Tome]

The_Mad_Linguist once played an Expy of Archer from Fate/stay night using the class. His incorporeality was reflavoured as resistance to non-magical weapons. Since there's a feat which lets living creatures be healed by negative energy (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Tomb-tainted_Soul), it's not too much of a stretch to allow the opposite.

:smalleek::smallbiggrin: Is there a link to this build anywhere?