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big teej
2010-06-27, 05:13 PM
Hello, my friends and I plan to start a diety killing campaign over the next week or so. and I have decided that, if evil alignments are allowed, that i wish to play a druchii. for those of you unfamiliar with what druchii are, they are the warhammer fantasy dark elves. I am posting here to find out if someone has already homebrewed this race, hopefully saving myself much time and effort.


if any of you know of such a creation, if you could direct me too it i would appreciate it greatly.


*I really hope this was the right forum for this >.<


if one does not exist, I shall post my own homebrew druchii on the forums to be.... "critiqued"*


thankyou all in advance, and good hunting

*torn to shreds

Volthawk
2010-06-27, 05:30 PM
Well, a forum search shows no results for 'druchii'. So yeah, nothing on this forum.

big teej
2010-06-27, 05:35 PM
I was fairly sure nothing was on the forums, I was hoping some gamer had stumbled across it in either his travels across the realms... or the interenet

Ashtagon
2010-06-27, 05:59 PM
Here's what I got...

Elf
+4 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con
restricted class: barbarian
base speed 40'
slight build: carrying capacity calculated as if one size class smaller (Small)
low-light vision
free proficiency in blade weapons and either bows (wood/high elves) or crossbows (dark elves)

The above the the bits in common for all the WH elves. For dark elves specifically...

Dark Elf:
class skills: Knowledge/elf nobility, Knowledge/history
favoured class: fighter
automatic languages: Elvish.
Bonus languages: Norse, Germanic, Frankish, Iberian, Italic, Classical, Goblinoid, Lizard

Restricted class: This is a homebrew item. Basically, it means characters of this race cannot ever have more than half their total character levels in this class (and RP-wise, almost no NPC of this race would have levels in the class).

Favoured Class: When making these, I purposely allowed no race to have a casting class as their favoured class, in order to encourage the low magic feel of WH. Dark elves could probably be justified as having wizard or sorcerer as a favoured class.

big teej
2010-06-27, 06:05 PM
Here's what I got...

Elf
+4 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con
restricted class: barbarian
base speed 40'
slight build: carrying capacity calculated as if one size class smaller (Small)
low-light vision
free proficiency in blade weapons and either bows (wood/high elves) or crossbows (dark elves)

The above the the bits in common for all the WH elves. For dark elves specifically...

Dark Elf:
class skills: Knowledge/elf nobility, Knowledge/history
favoured class: fighter
automatic languages: Elvish.
Bonus languages: Norse, Germanic, Frankish, Iberian, Italic, Classical, Goblinoid, Lizard

Restricted class: This is a homebrew item. Basically, it means characters of this race cannot ever have more than half their total character levels in this class (and RP-wise, almost no NPC of this race would have levels in the class).

Favoured Class: When making these, I purposely allowed no race to have a casting class as their favoured class, in order to encourage the low magic feel of WH.

that...... is extremely helpful :smallbiggrin:

unfortunately (and this is my fault as I forgot to mention it in my OP) this will be a DnD 3.5 campaign, I am transferring the druchii over, as most of my characters tend to be heavily warhammer based anyways (because that's what I know)

so far my (warhammer heavy) characters have included:
my first character - a khornate barbarian
Dwarven knight - ironbreaker concept (with a slayer class in reserve just in case)
an Ogre "ranger"
and coming soon
an Ogre Butcher


for simplicity's sake, I may just use that if you're okay with it, but since i'm already part through homebrewing my own, I may just send them both to the DM for approval, or meld the too or..... something.

big teej
2010-06-27, 06:09 PM
while we're on the topic of Druchii

would you also happen to have Nauglir statted out? :smallbiggrin:

Ashtagon
2010-06-27, 06:09 PM
It's some time ago since I originally wrote up those elves, and I'd probably do some revision if I were to work on it seriously again, but it was written for 3.5e.

Here's the rest of what i wrote up...

http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?p=93#p93

big teej
2010-06-27, 06:30 PM
here's what I came up with (basing it off of a cross between the malus darkblade novels, and the drow SRD wiki)
the format is also based on the SRD wiki

in addition to the oh so very helpful post above, this is what I'll probably be submitting to my DM.

Druchii (highborn)

Druchii tend to have black hair and a skin tone ranging from alabaster white, to a very pale lavender.

Due to the inherent lethality of druchii society, they tend to be much sturdier than their fellow elves.

Racial characteristics
+ 2 dexterity, +2 intelligence, +2 charisma 2 constitution
Humanoid (elf)
Medium
Base land speed: 30 feet
Unlike other elves, druchii sleep normally like non elves.
Low light vision 100 feet

Weapon proficiencies: a druchii highborn is proficient with all simple weapons, and all bladed martial weapons. As well as light crossbows, and light repeating crossbows

Automatic Languages: Druhir, Elven
Bonus languages: Common, Orc, Draconic, Infernal,

Favored class: ---- toss up between fighter and rogue

Level adjustment +x (assigning level adjustment is a very arbitrary experience for me, help in fixing that is appreciated)

Ageing
Druchii are effectively immortal, and stop ageing (physically) once adulthood is reached

Ashtagon
2010-06-27, 06:44 PM
one critique, as ordered...

(Anything not specifically commented on is because i got lazy)

+ 2 dexterity, +2 intelligence, +2 charisma 2 constitution

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any WH race as being particularly charismatic. My normal measure for "charismatic" is whether the race is able to create long-lasting (in the context of their racial lifespan) empires with little or no internal strife. In the case of elves, they had a massive racial civil war which split the people in two, then had one group split again into a group that became effectively xenophobic, and then had another civil war which almost caused the total destruction of the world.

This is not indicative of a people who can talk through to a successful resolution of disputes. So, no charisma bonus.

(fwiw, my WH orcs and gobbos get a charisma penalty; most other races get no modifier).

Base land speed: 30 feet

WH elves really do have a faster move rate by RAW.

Unlike other elves, druchii sleep normally like non elves.

Fair comment. Actually, all WH elves need sleep like humans do.

Low light vision 100 feet

LL vision doesn't have a range limit under D&D RAW - that only applies to darkvision.

Weapon proficiencies: a druchii highborn is proficient with all simple weapons, and all bladed martial weapons. As well as light crossbows, and light repeating crossbows

Sounds good. I should probably have been more specific about what weapons are covered by the free proficiency.

Automatic Languages: Druhir, Elven

I'm under the impression that the three elven languages haven't drifted that much, although they form easily recognisable dialects (think Brit/American/Indian English for ease of recognisability).

Bonus languages: Common, Orc, Draconic, Infernal,

Bear in mind these languages don't exist in the WH world.

Favored class: ---- toss up between fighter and rogue

Seems reasonable.

Level adjustment +x (assigning level adjustment is a very arbitrary experience for me, help in fixing that is appreciated)

I was aiming for +1 with my homebrew WH elves.

Ageing
Druchii are effectively immortal, and stop ageing (physically) once adulthood is reached

By WH fluff, elves live approximately 500-800 years.

big teej
2010-06-27, 07:03 PM
thankyou much.


+ 2 dexterity, +2 intelligence, +2 charisma 2 constitution


This is not indicative of a people who can talk through to a successful resolution of disputes. So, no charisma bonus.

the charisma bonus came from the combination of a modified drow racial trait + what I've learned of Druchii from the malus darkblade novels, and they struck me as having very forceful personalities, indicating a higher charisma (to me at least.) so I stuck with it, however, that will be the first thing on my list of concessions if the DM says no.
*that said, your point is well made, and well taken




Base land speed: 30 feet

WH elves really do have a faster move rate by RAW.



I was unaware of this, but am not the least bit surprised.

is it actually 40 feet?


one critique, as ordered...

Unlike other elves, druchii sleep normally like non elves.

Fair comment. Actually, all WH elves need sleep like humans do.



indeed, but I am adapting this for the dnd universe, so that makes special mention.




Low light vision 100 feet

LL vision doesn't have a range limit under D&D RAW - that only applies to darkvision.


another thing I was unaware of, I'll fix it




I think that was everything.....

any ideas on the LA? or anything else that makes it too obvious I have no clue what I'm doing? :smallredface:

Ashtagon
2010-06-28, 01:28 AM
Regarding movement rates...

WFRP 1e to 2e and WFB 1e to 7e gave all elves a base movement rate of 5, compared to humans who have 4.

WFB 1e to 3e doubled the normal armour encumbrance penalty for elves (4e onwards dropped all references to armour encumbrance as "too complicated for our target market").

WFRP 1e/2e gave humans and elves the same carrying capacity (dwarves had 50% more in 2e; 100% more in 1e) for their strength.

Dark elf strength of will: While they are certainly arrogant and prone to demanding their wishes happen, their version of "charisma" always struck me more as "my way"; "no, my way" - forceful arguing without resolution, backed with arms if need be, rather than genuine persuasion skills. In effect, they may believe they are good talkers, but no one around them agrees.

SlyGuyMcFly
2010-06-28, 05:56 AM
Dark elf strength of will: While they are certainly arrogant and prone to demanding their wishes happen, their version of "charisma" always struck me more as "my way"; "no, my way" - forceful arguing without resolution, backed with arms if need be, rather than genuine persuasion skills. In effect, they may believe they are good talkers, but no one around them agrees.

Forceful? No, Druchii are more the subtle scheming backstabbers. Until they get pissed off. Then they tend to go all rampaging psycho on you. But given the relevance of Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy in their society and their very domineering personalities, a Cha bonus seems quite in line. I'm quite certain that no Druchii has ever been considered meek.

Cha manages a lot of things, the ability to reach diplomatic resolution to conflict being just one of them. I don't think that's a good measure of charisma, to be honest.

Ashtagon
2010-06-28, 06:24 AM
I could also add that a charisma bonus isn't reflected in the WFRP/WFB stats either. (yes, I am big on converting crunch over fluff where that crunch exists).

WFRP 1e dark elf has Fellowship attribute at 43 (same as human).

All elves cause fear in goblins (maybe treat this as a +1 attack bonus? It seems more to be a holdover from the wfb 1 e Tolkein-clone days)

WFRP 2e dark elf is fluffed in Tome of Corruption (p160), but no crunch there. However, their base stats have always been the same for all three elf branches in WH. The PC elf race has the same Fellowship score as for humans in 2e (dwarves are lower; halflings are higher).

Just because a given culture is a big fan of a certain set of skills, that doesn't mean they are actually good at it, or at least, as good at it as their propaganda would have you believe. WH fiction and fluff is generally written from a propaganda race-centric point of view.

big teej
2010-06-28, 12:19 PM
Forceful? No, Druchii are more the subtle scheming backstabbers. Until they get pissed off. Then they tend to go all rampaging psycho on you. But given the relevance of Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy in their society and their very domineering personalities, a Cha bonus seems quite in line. I'm quite certain that no Druchii has ever been considered meek.

Cha manages a lot of things, the ability to reach diplomatic resolution to conflict being just one of them. I don't think that's a good measure of charisma, to be honest.

I concur, violence is merely another tool for the druchii, a favored tool? oh yes. but if lies and deciet can gain more than violence, the swords stay sheathed.

in regards to 'the people around them' not thinking they're as good at it as the druchii believe themselves to be.
context + another book reference, yay ^_^

druchii bring their personalities to bear on OTHER druchii, within their society, when it comes to non-druchii, well... non-druchii = prey. dwarves, goblins, 'good' elves, humans, etc. are not equals to be bargained with. they are slaves yet to be taken *

*oversimplification


as far as a 'meek' druchii, a druchii slave or lowborn might be considered meek under certain circumstances (i.e. dealing with a highborn/slavemaster etc)



on an sorta unrelated note. does anyone have stats for nauglir? or 'the cold ones' as they are sometimes called?

:smallannoyed: I may have asked this already. but I don't have time to check because I need to go to the doctor....

anyways, I'll post up the new version of my druchii later today if I can

Ashtagon
2010-06-28, 12:53 PM
I concur, violence is merely another tool for the druchii, a favored tool? oh yes. but if lies and deciet can gain more than violence, the swords stay sheathed.

True, but that is reasonably true of humans too (especially the usual way Tileans and Border Princes are drawn) as well, yet they don't have a bonus.

And notably, by fluff, if negotiation is better than either violence or lies for the druchii to get what they want, they will take violence or lies every time, rather than negotiate.

In the end, I would be extremely wary of using any WH fluff to generate racial stats, as WH is notorious for pumping up a race's image of itself in fluff. Crunch says dark elves are no more (or less) charismatic than humans.

big teej
2010-06-28, 06:18 PM
I'm afraid I don't have quite the time to post my contribution to the debate as lengthly as I would like, but I can some it up very nicely :smallwink:

they're HUMAN, they NEVER get racial modifiers to stats.

also, in the interest of furthering my knowledge. what sources of fluff are you drawing from? the only warhammer fluff I have to draw from is my (admittedly rather extensive) library of warhammer 40k and fantasy novels.

so in this instance, everything I'm putting out here is based on the snapshots of druchii society (and the occaisional portrait) we get from the Malus Darkblade series of novels, following the tale of (you guessed it) Malus Darkblade, in his trek across the land of chill in persuit of wealth, power, and vengence.

and one supporting character (who's name I don't even remember) within the blackhearts series. who was trying to assasinate... teclis of the white tower if memory serves.

I'm a 40k player, as such, I have no access to WH rulebook fluff, outside of what can be found on the gamesworkshop site.

this response is supported by the "moar stuff for druchii!" fund

Ashtagon
2010-06-29, 12:17 AM
they're HUMAN, they NEVER get racial modifiers to stats.

I'm pretty sure the druchii are WH fantasy dark elves, not humans :smallconfused:


also, in the interest of furthering my knowledge. what sources of fluff are you drawing from? the only warhammer fluff I have to draw from is my (admittedly rather extensive) library of warhammer 40k and fantasy novels.

My sources of fluff, and more importantly, crunch, are the WH rulebooks. More specifically, WFRP 1e and 2e, and WFB 3e and 6/7e.

big teej
2010-06-29, 08:30 AM
I'm pretty sure the druchii are WH fantasy dark elves, not humans :smallconfused:



My sources of fluff, and more importantly, crunch, are the WH rulebooks. More specifically, WFRP 1e and 2e, and WFB 3e and 6/7e.

that was my fault for being unclear, somebody said that the Tileans and boarder princes were often written having a similar... 'methodology' to druchii, but that they don't get any charisma bonus for it

hence 'humans = no modifiers'

my apologies for being unclear.

Ashtagon
2010-06-29, 08:37 AM
that was my fault for being unclear, somebody said that the Tileans and boarder princes were often written having a similar... 'methodology' to druchii, but that they don't get any charisma bonus for it

hence 'humans = no modifiers'

my apologies for being unclear.

ok, that would have been me.

My main point though, is... fluff says a certain group of humans (Tileans and Borderlanders) has a similar methodology to a certain group of elves (druchii). In other words, fluff-wise, they are the same.

Crunch wise, druchii have the exact same Fellowship (WFRP's "charisma" attribute) as humans. Humans have no Charisma modifier, so by crunch, a Charisma modifier is also not justified for druchii.

tl;dr - neither WH fluff nor crunch justifies a Charisma bonus for dark elves.

big teej
2010-06-29, 09:30 AM
ok, that would have been me.

My main point though, is... fluff says a certain group of humans (Tileans and Borderlanders) has a similar methodology to a certain group of elves (druchii). In other words, fluff-wise, they are the same.

Crunch wise, druchii have the exact same Fellowship (WFRP's "charisma" attribute) as humans. Humans have no Charisma modifier, so by crunch, a Charisma modifier is also not justified for druchii.

tl;dr - neither WH fluff nor crunch justifies a Charisma bonus for dark elves.

huzzah for conflicting fluff. :smallsmile:


unfortunately we're at a bit of an impasse, the fluff I have at my disposal indicates that they would, while what you have indicates that they won't.
:smallannoyed:

oh well, I'll just submit both of our visions for what a druchii is to the DM.

but of course, knowing my luck, he won't allow evil alignments and this whole conversation is moot :smallfrown:

big teej
2010-06-30, 10:58 PM
but of course, knowing my luck, he won't allow evil alignments and this whole conversation is moot :smallfrown:

I was correct, he wishes us to play neutral - good

so I'm going to try and sell a werebear or wereboar to the DM :smallbiggrin: