How much homebrew is too much? [PF e6]

[Altair_the_Vexed]

How much is too much?
I'm committed to making P6 - a Pathfinder game, capped at 6th level + feats.
I reckon it'll be ace: all the streamlining of Pathfinder, all the grittiness of the 6th level cap...
E6, for D&D, is well covered online. There's only a few things to change to make it into P6.

Of course, me being me, I also want to do some other homebrew stuff.

Mainly, I'm wondering - how many houserules does it take to become too many? At what point should one just stop, and go back to the basics, or just allow all material from all books?

Anyway, here goes:

Starting with the normal variant rules found in SRDs everywhere:
Vitality and Wounds instead of HPAlmost exactly as in Unearthed Arcana... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm)
You gain Vitality Points (VP) the same as you would HP. You also have Wound Points (WP), equal to your CON score.
Only heroic classes get VP.
You lose VP until you run out, then damage comes off your WP.
VP heal quickly (1 per hour).
Whenever you take WP damage, you make a save to stay conscious.
Criticals deal damage directly to Wounds. For creatures without VP, criticals are instant kills (straight to -1WP, unconscious and dying). Critical multippliers do not apply. Players roll all the diceAlmost exactly as in Unearthed Arcana... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm)
When a bad guy attacks you, you roll to dodge instead of his roll to attack.
Your AC turns into a Defence Bonus, and is added to a d20 roll.
NPCs' attack bonuses are added to 10. This is DC for you to dodge the blow.
Players get to roll all through the combat, not just on your turn.
Combined with the VP and WP system, this means your character is forever dodging - just sometimes it's more tiring (loss of VP). When they finally get too tired to evade, they get hit. Armour is Damage ReductionAlmost exactly as in Unearthed Arcana... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm)
You'll get a class bonus to defence, but no AC bonus from armour.
The DR of your armour (to be supplied from a handy table I have somewhere) comes off any WP damage you take - NOT VP.

These are small changes to the rules individually, but together, they add up to make the game play quite differently. I think it'll be fun, and a little grittier, while still being heroic like D&D / Pathfinder should be.

Here's the bit where I start loading more into the pot.
I want to add in more of the stuff that seems to work form the other games I've run, as well as a few newfangled ideas. My list of tried and tested extras includes: Conan's Combat movesThese are the things like Riposte, Dance Aside and Bull's Charge that we've used in our game with some effect. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7065389&postcount=1) Weapon MasteryOnce a large and cumbersome set of rules to boost fighters, this will be streamlined to become just a set of feats, granting +1d3, +1d4, +1d6 enhancement bonus to damage with the chosen weapon. The other features of the weapon mastery system hardly ever got used, so out they go. Sprinting, short charges, split move actions, etcGranting the ability to run round corners (sort of), move and do something while moving, to partial charge outside of the surprise round... The stuff we use in most of the games I run.


Now, here's where I get a bit weird:
Generic classes Almost exactly as in Unearthed Arcana... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) Just three classes, and most of the class features of the core classes are turned into Feats Fighter - just like the core class, good BAB and lots of fighty feats Expert - loads of skillpoints and a few feats Spellcaster - cast like a sorcerer, gain a few feats Note: The spellcaster class carries a bit more change with it than it seems at first glance... There are no clerics, only spellcasters with the Channel Energy feat and maybe a spell list selected for its healing There are no wizards, only spellcasters with the Spellbook feat (grants the ability to give up a spell-per-day in exchange for adding a spell from your book to your spells known list for that day) The churches of the World are run by politicians, with only a few Spellcasters in the ranks
Reduced races Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling - no half-thingies, gnomes, goblins, tieflings, brownies, flying monkey people or the like Dwarves - low light and tremorsense instead of darkvision Elves - different starting age and age penalties Halflings - increase the STR penalty, add a CON bonus, reduced WP (halflings are feeble straight up fighters, but have lots of VP), increased bonuses to sneak Half-elves are represented by humans and elves, if necessary Half-orcs are a non-player race, if they exist at all
Special racial feats Adding some racial feats to set the races apart from humans in funny make-up The best Halflings sneak and throw, resist and recover better than humans ever will The best Dwarves are at home in the dark, endure beyond human limits, inherently understand mechanical things The best Elves are inherently enchanting, can tell a sparrow from a finch a league away, and can see into the future
Changed magical weapon rules "+1 damage" is dull Magic weapons no longer do extra damage Special features are applicable to masterwork weapons Fire, Frost, etc damage is an "enhancement bonus" to damage (does not stack with weapon mastery) The "+" of a weapon is taken off any DR before applying damage

[Morph Bark]

I like most of the changed weapon rules. I think you need to rework some weapons though, if critical multipliers are now gone, otherwise everyone will want a rapier or a scimitar.

With all the 3.5 variant rules, it kinda seems... I dunno, un-Pathfindery? I'm not really familiar with Pathfinder, but are you even using any of it for the players, rather than just rules for monsters and such?

[Sereg]

Is there such a thing as too much dakka? No! The same applies to homebrew. If you like a rule, you add it.

Ok, more seriously, I'd say that you have too many houserules and/or homebrew under one of two conditions:

1. You and/or you players are too confused too play/enjoy yourselves.

2. Your players are scared off by all the rules.

Otherwise, I can't think of any reason not too add a houserule/homebrew that you want to add.

[Yora]

It's not the amount of house rules, but how they work together. But in your case, I don't see any problems.
Another thing is how good players are at keeping track of the variant rules. They have to remember that some things work different than usual. With variant races and different classes and feat options, that's rather easy, because they limit what abilities the characters can have, but not how these abilities work. If you change how things work, you have to make sure everyone understands it and can remember it.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I like most of the changed weapon rules. I think you need to rework some weapons though, if critical multipliers are now gone, otherwise everyone will want a rapier or a scimitar.
Got that covered: High crit multipliers turn into increased crit threat range under that variant.

With all the 3.5 variant rules, it kinda seems... I dunno, un-Pathfindery? I'm not really familiar with Pathfinder, but are you even using any of it for the players, rather than just rules for monsters and such?
Yeah - the PF combat system is fairly transparent with the D&D 3.5 system, even with the adoption of the variants above.
What PF will bring to the mix is the neater skill set, expanded feats, and more class features (which will become feat trees under my Generic Classes variant).
I'm hoping that still stays Pathfinder enough - but with all these changes, I guess it'll be a new game we're playing, not PF or D&D...


It's not the amount of house rules, but how they work together. But in your case, I don't see any problems.
Another thing is how good players are at keeping track of the variant rules. They have to remember that some things work different than usual. With variant races and different classes and feat options, that's rather easy, because they limit what abilities the characters can have, but not how these abilities work. If you change how things work, you have to make sure everyone understands it and can remember it.
Yeah, there'll be a good few changes to remember... I'm looking to compile all the rules - including the core rules, since much of it will be slightly changed by the core variants at the top of the OP - into a PDF / or online "P6 SRD". I'll print out at least one copy for at-table reference.