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SillyBee
2010-06-30, 06:06 PM
(Wanted some evocative type of title for this thread. I'm sure I failed miserably):smallfrown:

So, I am requesting assistance in building an offensive human paladin. I am wanting to stick to the Paladin class, not the Prestige Class. Possible later dips out, but really I need help with feats, spells to take, etc. Do I focus on smite with feats? Or Turn Undead feats? Any ideas for feat progression up to 20th level? No flaws or traits are available.

All 3.5 books are available. Any assistance would be super duper. Thanks Playgrounders!

Critical
2010-06-30, 06:09 PM
Cleric with a Prestige Paladin dip would be your best bet, Paladins, pretty much, suck without massive optimizing.

Mr.Moron
2010-06-30, 06:14 PM
I'll be the first of many likely many people to ask if you're truly attached to the Paladin Class rather than just the "Holy-Powered Knight in Shining Armor" character type. There are far better ways to pull off that sort of character than the PHB Paladin class.

Assuming you are attached, if you're going to be in a lot of open areas, or even just dungeons with rooms big enough for a mount, focus on that making powerful. The right special mount can be your strongest class feature in combat.


If you think you'll usually be tied up in very tight spaces, take the Charging Smite class feature instead. Pick up the feat battle blessing, any divine feat you want and then just the standard charging package.

Siosilvar
2010-06-30, 06:14 PM
All 3.5 books? Does Fighter 2/Paladin 2/Crusader 1/PrC and Crusader levels +X work for you?

EDIT: Paladin 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/X+5 works, though you don't get the whole benefit from the spellcasting progression.

erikun
2010-06-30, 06:14 PM
Some quick suggestions:

Cleric/Prestige Paladin
Crusader
Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator
Paladin of Freedom/Holy Liberator
Paladin of Freedom/Barbarian/Chosen of Amaunator Champion of Gwynharwyf
Paladin 3/Bard/Crusader with Song of the White Raven feat

Il_Vec
2010-06-30, 06:17 PM
I am wanting to stick to the Paladin class, not the Prestige Class.


Cleric with a Prestige Paladin dip would be your best bet, Paladins, pretty much, suck without massive optimizing.

That was... Entertaining.

On topic: Your feelings toward the Crusader class? Have you considered the Pathfinder Paladin? Are we talking 3.5 or 4th here?

The Blackbird
2010-06-30, 06:17 PM
Divine Might is always a good feat for paladins (Complete Divine), if you use a shield then Divine Shield is also good (same book). Awesome smite from complete champion is also useful.

If you don't intend on taking mounted combat feats ditch special mount and take charging smite varient (PH2).

EDIT: Battle Blessing from Complete Champion quickens all paladin spells that's a good one too.

Sc00by
2010-06-30, 06:24 PM
Beg your DM to allow you to have smites per Encounter rather than per day, take a look @ the Fist of Raziel in the BoED which you can prestige into around 5th or 6th level.

Battle blessing is a fun feat once you can cast spells (Complete Champion) though it may make your DM hit you round the head with the DMG...

Fun ACFs:

Planar Paladin gives your mount the 'Celestial' template (unfortunately FoR doesn't progrss your mount :( )
Draakensteed mount (Dracomonicon) lets you fly a draakensteed as a mount.
Curse Breaker (Comp. mage) gets rid of remove Disease and gives you remove Curse instead, plus extras

People rave about Grey Guard, but to me it's not a paladin in ethos...

I'd look at a divine might/vigour/etc feat to use your turn attempts on too, as Paladin turning is mostly pointless...

edit hmm lots of people saying the same stuff as me while I was typing this.

I'd add that Crusader can do the Paladin's job pretty well too...

KillianHawkeye
2010-06-30, 06:26 PM
The key to making an offensive paladin is to always meddle in other people's business. Don't let anybody get away with doing anything that's even Neutrally-aligned without going on and on about how much better you are because you're Good. Continuously admonish people for not being selfless charity workers, and always preface suggestions with "Well, in an ideal world...."

Il_Vec
2010-06-30, 06:27 PM
The key to making an offensive paladin is to always meddle in other people's business. Don't let anybody get away with doing anything that's even Neutrally-aligned without going on and on about how much better you are because you're Good. Continuously admonish people for not being selfless charity workers, and always preface suggestions with "Well, in an ideal world...."

Offensive or Intrusively Annoying?

KillianHawkeye
2010-06-30, 06:29 PM
Offensive or Intrusively Annoying?

Close enough! :smallwink:

lsfreak
2010-06-30, 06:32 PM
The main 4 ways I play paladin:

Paladin5. Get Charging Smite ACF (PHB2), along with the feats Law Devotion, Travel Devotion, Battle Blessing, and possibly Awesome Smite (all from CC). After paladin5, prestige into something that's full BAB with decent advanced spellcasting; Ordained Champion is particularly good for 5 levels (the adaptation makes it not deity-specific).

Cleric5/Ordained Champion5. Grab DMM:Persist, Law Devotion, and Holy Warrior (also from CC). Persist Divine Power and another spell or two and smash faces better than a real paladin. A 1-3 level dip in prestige paladin can be good, and any class that fully advances spellcasting is good.

Crusader. 'Nuff said.

Crusader/Cleric/RKW.

EDIT: I will also add, smites/encounter. If you can get OneWinged4angel's paladin, it's good straight through, unlike normal paladin (found in the pdf file here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2096.0))

Siosilvar
2010-06-30, 06:32 PM
On topic: Your feelings toward the Crusader class? Have you considered the Pathfinder Paladin? Are we talking 3.5 or 4th here?


All 3.5 books are available. Any assistance would be super duper. Thanks Playgrounders!

That was... Entertaining. :smallamused:

PId6
2010-06-30, 06:56 PM
Paladins are doable, though you'll need to optimize very heavily and you'll never be all that versatile. See if PF Paladin is allowed, since that's leagues better than the 3.5 one (one of the few things they got right). Just remember: never ever give up your spellcasting. It may not be great, but it's one of the few things that Paladins have to make them better than Fighters, so don't lose it.

This build is relatively good for something that has lots of paladin levels, but you'll need to refluff to make it work:

Cloistered Cleric 1/Paladin 6/Fist of Raziel 10/Paladin* +3

Take the Mystic Fire Sub Levels (CoV), all of them. This gives you bonus spells, improved spellcasting, Disrupt Evil (which is not great, but free), and Spellshatter in place of Cure Disease (which is awesome). Also take the Charging Smite ACF (PHB2). Thanks to Fist of Raziel, your Smites are fairly good, and Rhino's Rush (SpC) + Charging Smite means that you'll be dealing lots and lots of damage on a charge. Improved Spellcasting trades your Turn Undead away, but the Cleric dip already got that.

Feats: Get some combination of Law, Travel, and Animal Devotions from your Cleric domains, and also trade Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion. Take Power Attack, Practiced Spellcaster (Paladin), Servant of the Heavens (prereq), Battle Blessing, Divine Might, and Sword of the Arcane Order. You'll be able to cast wizard spells, have a decent caster level, and cast paladin spells as a swift action. Other useful feats are Awesome Smite, Shock Trooper, Extra Smiting, Extra Turning, and Draconic Aura.

The refluff comes because Mystic Fire and Sword of the Arcane Order require Mystra as patron deity, and she doesn't give the good devotion feats (Law, Animal, Travel). If you're playing outside of Realms, see if your DM will waive that requirement for you. Otherwise make do with whatever domains/devotions you can get, since Improved Spellcasting + Sword of the Arcane Order are worth keeping.

* I couldn't find a decent Paladin PrC for the last three levels that advances casting. Ordained Champion could work, but that doesn't seem worth it due to the lost level. Oh well, those levels get you more smite damage and extra Spellshatter anyway, so they're not completely terrible.

Doc Roc
2010-06-30, 07:12 PM
So. I pretty much never do this. But I am going to recommend that you seek out one of the many excellent homebrew fixes. We have one, Fax has one, OW4 has one, TGD has one.. Just pick one. Paladin as written is so close to being unplayable due to RP and mechanical constraints that I don't have it in my heart to recommend it as your primary class. I am sorry I could not be more helpful.

Evard
2010-06-30, 07:28 PM
I agree with finding a homebrew paladin build... As written they are horrible but with little changes they can be pretty fricken sweet XD

SurlySeraph
2010-06-30, 07:30 PM
There are plenty of good PrCs and feats for a paladin, but you do have to seek them out. Grey Guard has already been mentioned, Fist of Raziel (BoED) is pretty good, Kensai (CompWar) isn't all that paladin-oriented but can be quite useful, and Pious Templar is pretty good.

Take domain devotion feats. Animal Devotion and Law Devotion are likely to be your best bets. Battle Blessing can add a lot, especially if you're using the Spell Compendium for more useful spells, and as mentioned above this combines nicely with Sword of the Arcane Order. In any case, paladins can make great charging builds; the spell Rhino's Rush + a two-handed weapon with the Valorous enhancement + the Charging Smite alternate class feature + the Shock Trooper feat allows you to do plenty of damage.

PId6's suggested build is quite good. You might also want to take the Serenity feat to make your Cha-based class features run off Wis instead, since Sword of the Arcane Order requires you to have decent Int and you don't want to be any more multiple-ability-dependent than you have to be.

Also, paladins get some pretty sweet spells, but slow progression and few per day. Buy wands. Draconic Might, Holy Sword, Rhino's Rush, Knight's Move, and numerous others can be a real asset.

Private-Prinny
2010-06-30, 07:31 PM
See if you can get either (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133737) of these (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/paladin) approved.

Il_Vec
2010-06-30, 07:40 PM
That was... Entertaining. :smallamused:

Fixed that. :smallsmile:

PId6
2010-06-30, 07:52 PM
There are plenty of good PrCs and feats for a paladin, but you do have to seek them out. Grey Guard has already been mentioned
I dislike the Gray Guard a lot. You're sacrificing most of your spellcasting, one of the only reasons you'd want to play Paladin in the first place, in exchange for slightly better smiting and lessened RP restrictions. If your DM wants to make you fall, you're going to fall whether you're a Gray Guard or not, so you really shouldn't be playing a paladin in the first place. If your DM is reasonable and isn't too anal about the Code, then you don't need Gray Guard at all.

SurlySeraph
2010-06-30, 08:24 PM
Plus better social skills, an easy time recovering if your DM does make you fall, and a useful and cheap debuff with Debilitating Touch. And it costs nothing to enter. It's not a powerhouse, but it's worth taking.

Zaq
2010-06-30, 08:37 PM
Sorcadins are pretty fun and capable gishes. Just fluff your arcane side as being righteous fury or the blessings of your deity or something, and play up the Paladin RP side.

Also, Hellreaver (Fiendish Codex II) is good fun.

Frosty
2010-07-01, 01:19 AM
I dislike the Gray Guard a lot. You're sacrificing most of your spellcasting, one of the only reasons you'd want to play Paladin in the first place, in exchange for slightly better smiting and lessened RP restrictions. If your DM wants to make you fall, you're going to fall whether you're a Gray Guard or not, so you really shouldn't be playing a paladin in the first place. If your DM is reasonable and isn't too anal about the Code, then you don't need Gray Guard at all.

THis is why you should ask your DM to let you use 1) the Pathfinder version of the paladin and 2) use my homebrew Gray Guard updated for Pathfinder. Check it out.

Updated Gray Guard:

HD: d10

Class Skills (4+Int mod per level): Bluff, Concentration, Disguise, Forgery,
Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (local) (nobility) (religion),
Perception, Ride, Sense Motive.

BAB: 1/1 progression
Saves: Good Fort, Bad Ref, Good Will

Lv Special Spellcasting
1st Sacrament of trust, lay on hands, Smite Evil 1/day --
2nd No Mercy +1 level Paladin
3rd Aura of Conviction +1 level Paladin
4th Smite evil 2/day +1 level Paladin
5th No Mercy +1 level Paladin
6th Aura of Trust +1 level Paladin
7th Smite evil 3/day +1 level Paladin
8th No Mercy +1 level Paladin
9th Aura of Sacrifice +1 level Paladin
10th Sacrament of the true faith, Justice Blade +1 level Paladin


Sacrament of trust: As default Gray Guard. See Complete Scoundrel.

Lay on Hands (Su): Levels of gray guard stack with other class levels that grant lay on hands to determine how many times the ability can be used per day, how much healing each use grants, the save DC for the No Mercy ability, and the damage dealt by the No Mercy ability. For example, an 8th level paladin/4th level gray guard has 6+CHA bonus uses of Lay of Hands per day and each usage heals 6d6 damage.

Smite Evil (Su): As Pathfinder Paladin Smite Evil. You gain an extra Smite attempt at levels 1, 4, and 7. Levels of other classes that grant the smite evil class feature stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage dealt.

No Mercy (Su): At 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter, a gray guard can select one No Mercy. When a gray guard first gains No Mercy, he has the option of using his lay on hands to damage not only undead creatures (which is the default lay on hands), but also to damage any creature. This deals 1d6 points of damage for every two effective paladin levels. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Each No Mercy adds an effect to the gray guard's lay on hands ability. Whenever the gray guard uses lay on hands to deal damage to a target, the target also receives the additional effects from all of the No Mercies possessed by the gray guard. The victim gets a separate Fortitude save for each status effect to avoid it, but not to mitigate the damage. The save DC is 10+1/2 effective Paladin level+Charisma Modifier. The effects last for one hour unless stated otherwise.

At 2nd level, the gray guard can select from the following initial No Mercies.

Fatigued: The target is Fatigued. Repeated applications do not stack (to Exhausted for example), but resets the duration.

Shaken: The target is Shaken. Repeated applications do not stack (to Panicked for example), but resets the duration.

Sickened: The target is Sickened.


At 5th level, a gray guard adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.

Exhausted: The target is Exhausted. The gray guard must have the fatigue No Mercy before selecting this one.

Frightened: The target is Frightened for 1 minute. The gray guard must have the Shaken No Mercy before selecting this one.

Nauseated: The target is Nauseated for 1 round. The gray guard must have the Sickened mercy before selecting this mercy.


At 8th level, a gray guard adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.

Confused: The target is Confused for 5 rounds.

Dazed: The target Dazed for 2 rounds.

Blinded: The target is Blinded for 1 minute.

Aura of Conviction (Su): At 3rd level, a gray guard is more empowered by his conviction to battle evil. Each failed attempt to hinder the gray guard only hastens the inevitable victory of the grey guard. Whenever an evil creature casts a spell at, uses a Spell-like-ability at, or uses a Supernatural ability against the gray guard and the gray guard succeeds on the saving throw (if the effect allows a save in the first place. This aura has no effect against abilities that do not allow saves), then the gray guard and each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against the evil creature. This bonus lasts for 3 rounds.

This ability functions only while the gray guard is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Aura of Trust (Su): At 6th level, a gray guard is has learned how to better adapt to the changing social situations that he undoubtedly finds himself in, given his unorthodox methods. Him and all allies within 10 ft (he gets to choose which people count as allies) gain a Sacred bonus to Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive equal to 1/2 of his class level (not character level), rounded down.

This ability functions only while the gray guard is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Aura of Sacrifice (Su): At 9th level, a gray guard has internalized the concept that sometimes it is necessary to sacrifice something smaller to achieve something bigger. Him and each ally within 10 fthas the option the option of, as a swift action, willingly take anywhere from 1 to 3 Constitution damage that can't be prevented or negated or mitigated. The next time the character casts a spell or uses some sort of special ability, the save DC (if applicable) is increased by the same amount as the Consitution damage taken. The bonus is lost if not used by the beginning of the character's next turn.

This ability functions only while the gray guard is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Sacrament of the True Faith: As default Gray Guard. See Complete Scoundrel.

Justice Blade (Su): As the pinnacle of gray guards, you have realized that suffering and injustice are not the exclusive province of evil. You can use your smite ability to punish creatures of any alignment.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-01, 01:43 AM
See if you can get either (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133737) of these (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/paladin) approved.

Yay! Somebody besides me advocates Surrealistik's Paladin!

I very much enjoy this Paladin. It's mostly a defensive class but it has some really nice abilities. In my current fight, if I was playing a PHB Paladin I'd be screwed. It does have some nice offensive abilities if you need those. Smite gets really effective at hititng stuff at 14th level.

I can't advocate this Paladin enough. I really enjoy playing it.

Grifthin
2010-07-01, 03:28 AM
I am his will.
I am his fury.
I am the Mailed gauntlet about his fist, the sword that brings the divine light.
I am the shield that defends his people, and before this day is done demon, I WILL END YOU.

*last words before charging in to sacrifice self to save a small village + companions from a demon summoned by cultists/evil clerics*

The kicker - it was a regular fighter, no paladin class at all.

Lord Loss
2010-07-01, 06:35 AM
I am his will.
I am his fury.
I am the Mailed gauntlet about his fist, the sword that brings the divine light.
I am the shield that defends his people, and before this day is done demon, I WILL END YOU.

*last words before charging in to sacrifice self to save a small village + companions from a demon summoned by cultists/evil clerics*

The kicker - it was a regular fighter, no paladin class at all.

= Win._____________

mobdrazhar
2010-07-01, 04:22 PM
i would suggest possible the Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny as they are so much more fun to play than a LG pally.

Edit: and they have a damaging touch attack.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-01, 05:44 PM
i would suggest possible the Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny as they are so much more fun to play than a LG pally.


This is subjective. I personally like playing good characters better than evil.

Optimator
2010-07-01, 10:53 PM
The Paladin cruise missile is always fun. COmbine RHino's Rush and the CHarging Smite variant from the PHBII and go to town.

Edit: Also, if you like homebrew Paladins, this one (http://web.archive.org/web/20080506095543/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) is, in my opinion, the best.

Hague
2010-07-02, 02:08 AM
Put Turn Undead at 1st level. Then have Smite Evil use turn attempts. Then at every level that you'd get Smite Evil per day (except 1st), you get either a bonus Fighter feat, a bonus Divine Feat, or a copy of the Extra Turning feat. At 4th level, the Paladin gets the Improved Smiting Feat regardless of prerequisites. This means at 1st level, a paladin can possibly Smite Evil 3 or more times per day, and either choose to expand his Feats or be able to Smite more times per day or add new abilities to his repertoire. This also encourages the Paladin to focus on Charisma, as most of his abilities are tied to it as higher charisma grants more turn attempts, etc. The extra bonus feats encourage you to continue to improve paladin and also acts as a secondary path for martial clerics to pick up bonus feats or an alternate method of applying turn attempts.

The breadth of divine feats grants a paladin the option of using Divine Shield. Doesn't work with Core though, since Divine feats are in Complete Champion, Complete Divine, PHB2, and elsewhere.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 02:17 AM
The Paladin cruise missile is always fun. COmbine RHino's Rush and the CHarging Smite variant from the PHBII and go to town.

Edit: Also, if you like homebrew Paladins, this one (http://web.archive.org/web/20080506095543/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) is, in my opinion, the best.

Have you looked at Surrealistik's?

Doc Roc
2010-07-02, 02:17 AM
The Paladin cruise missile is always fun. COmbine RHino's Rush and the CHarging Smite variant from the PHBII and go to town.

Edit: Also, if you like homebrew Paladins, this one (http://web.archive.org/web/20080506095543/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) is, in my opinion, the best.

Eventually, someone will say that about my paladin. :S

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 02:19 AM
Eventually, someone will say that about my paladin. :S

Mind if I look it over? I'll probably still think Surrealistik's is the greatest Paladin ever but I might as well.

Doc Roc
2010-07-02, 03:16 AM
This is ours (https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B4dLcxsM7Nx0ODg0NWNkZmYtY2EyZC00YTdkL TliNWUtZTEyOWQ3ZGZiYjg3&hl=en). It's a bit.... off in the head.

J.Gellert
2010-07-02, 03:33 AM
Don't listen to the naysayers, paladins are awesome. You don't need homebrew, especially if you already like the class.

Come on Playground, not everyone's group is made of uberchargers and CoDzillas.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 03:35 AM
Don't listen to the naysayers, paladins are awesome. You don't need homebrew, especially if you already like the class.

Come on Playground, not everyone's group is made of uberchargers and CoDzillas.

No, but if you're in a group of Tier 3s and higher you'll be falling behind due to your low amount of skill points and the fact that normal Paladins don't get a ton of worthwhile class features. Smites can't even be made as ranged attacks without a feat.:smallmad:

Acanous
2010-07-02, 04:05 AM
Planar Paladin gives you some awesome options. Celestial's your mount for your first Remove Disease, which is way better than spending a feat. Gives you Smite Evil Outsider, which stacks with Smite Evil (but isn't really that useful most of the time, but hey- turn undead isn't either without serious feat investment).

Grab Mounted Combat, Ride-By-Attack, Spirited Charge, WF Lance.
You'll do damage. Oh yes. You'll do damage.

Also, what's with people and Charging Smite? Honestly sacrificing your Special Mount for THAT? It's like a Wizard choosing to gain extra slots from 1-6 in exchange for all his 7-9 slots...

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 04:10 AM
Grab Mounted Combat, Ride-By-Attack, Spirited Charge, WF Lance.
You'll do damage. Oh yes. You'll do damage.


Honestly, I suggest you don't do this and choose one of the homebrew Paladins Or the Pathfinder one. I did this and my group got mad. Me oneshotting things wasn't much fun for them.

hamishspence
2010-07-02, 04:14 AM
Save or Die spells do the same thing.

One shot killing can be OK- if everybody's doing it and there are lots of monsters to keep the encounter going.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 04:16 AM
Save or Die spells do the same thing.

One shot killing can be OK- if everybody's doing it and there are lots of monsters to keep the encounter going.

This is true. However, if this Isn't the case you have the recipe for a very annoyed group.

Morithias
2010-07-02, 04:27 AM
Serenity Feat from Dragon Magazine. Makes smite, divine grace, and so on be based on Wisdom instead of charisma. Outside of things like the diplomacy skill, you can basically ignore the Cha ability.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 04:28 AM
And diplomacy is broken anyway so I wouldn't even use that.

Acanous
2010-07-02, 04:57 AM
Honestly, I suggest you don't do this and choose one of the homebrew Paladins Or the Pathfinder one. I did this and my group got mad. Me oneshotting things wasn't much fun for them.

Well, the question WAS "How do I make a more Offensive Paladin".

The fun thing about Paladins is that they're a few things at once- Melee combatants, a walking buff against fear effects, and support spellcasters that can suppliment the party cleric.

I actually play a paladin that went Mounted Lancer. He was cranking out 36-50 damage a charge (Then taking a round to turn around out of melee range...) at level 3. When he grabbed Power Attack things got silly.

There is truth that your group is going to be jealous of your spike damage. Point out that unless you're fighting enemies in large box-like formations, you're going to only really get to charge every other round. Plus they'll be better if you're suprised in the night, or ambushed in a city.

It's a large damage spike, but it's very situational. Unlike say... a Lion Totem Barbarian with Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a sprinkle of Ranger.

If you want to be an offense-focused paladin, there's very few ways that compare with focusing on your mount, and attacking from or with your mount.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-02, 05:02 AM
If you want to be an offense-focused paladin, there's very few ways that compare with focusing on your mount, and attacking from or with your mount.

I realize this. That's why I suggest This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133737) paladin. It has enough offensive abilities so that you aren't stuck in a single role and smites are per encounter rather than per day and they are much improved compared to the WOTC version.

However, you haven't told us what level this is starting at. A lot of the offensive Abilities don't really come in until the later levels.

This has a few abilities your friends might be jealous of, but this Paladin also has a bunch of abilities you can use to help your friends to cancel that jealousy out.

Now, time for bed for Kyuubi.

PId6
2010-07-02, 05:38 AM
Also, what's with people and Charging Smite? Honestly sacrificing your Special Mount for THAT? It's like a Wizard choosing to gain extra slots from 1-6 in exchange for all his 7-9 slots...
It's mostly because mount doesn't fit in in a lot of places, like dungeons and cities, while Charging Smite works anywhere that you can charge.

Also, most PrCs don't advance mount, so if you're getting out of Paladin (and you should), your mount is going to fall behind. Charging Smite still works decently even if it's not advanced, and more PrCs advance Smite than mount anyway (like Fist of Raziel).

Hague
2010-07-02, 09:18 AM
Right, but this guy wants to make a straight paladin. Which is why I suggest messing with the way things work. For instance, maybe suggest to the DM that you get some of your smites for the day back if you do something truely noble or good, like sacrificing yourself for the good of another, settling some injustice, or defeating a dangerous evil foe.

Birstel
2010-07-02, 11:17 AM
I just let the paladin in our 3.5 game play a pathfinder paladin, it's working out well for him.