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jguy
2010-07-02, 11:36 PM
I am starting up a high level campaign, beginning from level 8 and going up. The first part and most likely the home base from then on is a large underground castle under the current one made for a mad king.

Story aside, I am having incredible trouble making a castle. Its not like a dungeon since its 1.) Much larger 2.) needs to be self contained. I usually have an easy time drawing up dungeons but castles seem to be a far different beast.

A friend said that I should look up blueprints/floor plans of existing castles and go from there. I did but none of them are any good or big enough. What I am asking is either some pre-generated castles, a program to let me do it, or some good castle floor plans.

What I am planning on making is a LARGE castle, self contained, 2 levels and a basement. Please help

BRC
2010-07-02, 11:43 PM
Alright, more info needed.
1) Who built this Castle, the king was Mad, but in what form did his madness take? Who did he have build it. Is it full of magical mumbo-jumbo, is it a clockwork deathtrap designed by the king's kobold advisor? Is it an underground zoo for the king's pets? Endless dungeons for his enemies? A Stronghold in case of attack? A Palace to wow guests with his wealth?
2)What's the surrounding area like?
3) Define Self-contained?

jguy
2010-07-02, 11:56 PM
1.) This castle was built by Duergars (sp?) for the mad king. He was mad in that he was extremely paranoid that his kingdom would be attacked and felled. Instead of building up a military he made a whole castle underground.

The castle is meant to be livable for years and years, with magical traps keyed to necklaces. This would allow the king and people he took with him (guards and servants) to go around fine but anyone else without the necklaces would spring them. Essentially its to keep the king in luxury, safe from people (it's well hidden) but anything that got in would be hit with vicious magical traps that don't harm the guards.

2.) The surrounding is humongous natural cavern fed by an underground stream. Think underdark levels of cavern size.

3.) Self-contained in that it has to have kitchens, servants quarters, guard towers/stations, alchemists labs ect. that a normal castle would have. It's not just a bunker, its the second home of a king who believed that even if his kingdom was destroyed he should still have a place to retire with nothing changing.

BRC
2010-07-03, 12:13 AM
Alright. First things first, don't feel you need to perfectly map out every inch of this castle. You're PC's aren't really going to care about where, exactly, the kitchens are kept.
Instead, if a certain area of the Castle is going to be part of an adventure, plan it out before the session. Otherwise, Wing it.

Have a general guideline for navigating the castle, like "Anybody who isn't wearing a protective amulet gets hit by a trap every X" Or something, with a table of basic traps.
It's more important to know what's in the castle than where it is. Have a list of various rooms. If it helps make a standard floor plan, a series of rooms off corridors. Assume most floors are based off that plan and simply relable the rooms as needed. Certain specific floors (Like the Entrance Hall or the King's Final Saferoom) you can map out individually.

jguy
2010-07-03, 12:52 AM
actually, that really helps. Just make a chart of possible rooms to myself, roll randomly when they get to a door, and roll for possible encounters. Cross off some stuff when it gets used up...yeah...might work

Crow
2010-07-03, 01:28 AM
By leaving it vague, you can expand it as you see fit. Like the "inside-out" method of world-building...only with a castle.

Incorrect
2010-07-03, 04:22 AM
How about letting one of your players design it, if any of them is into that kind of thing?
Of cause this only works if they don't have to capture the castle first, in order to own it.

balistafreak
2010-07-03, 09:58 AM
The Stronghold Builder's Guide is a great source of "modules" that you can use to make construction easier. Things like barracks, dining halls, armories, etc. are all in there. Heck, they even have costs and game mechanics to go with them!

Admittedly the book is 3.0, but I don't think there's anything in there that can't make the jump to 3.5.

Morph Bark
2010-07-03, 11:25 AM
How about letting one of your players design it, if any of them is into that kind of thing?
Of cause this only works if they don't have to capture the castle first, in order to own it.

Of course, even if they have to capture it first, the floors can always be shuffled up differently, the torture/treasure/guard chamber can be somewhere else, and the interior is all left up to the DM here's wiles.

And let's not forget traps. :smallamused:


I do support Crow's idea of "inside-out world/castle-building" here though, even if it might feel unusual at first.

Jacque
2010-07-03, 02:34 PM
You could check out the Time of Tumult book from the Exalted Game. I've used the Invisible Fortress in there as a luxury hiding place which is also hidden and defended. It has two floors and a basement. It isn't enormous though.

fusilier
2010-07-05, 05:32 AM
A castle is a kind of fortress. Underground fortresses don't really come into existence until the late 19th century (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). At that point, power can be projected by breechloading artillery in discreet turrets, allowing the rest of the fortress to be protected underground.

Therefore, what you are looking for is a bit different from a "castle" in the military sense. A castle has walls and towers for defense, gates, a keep, and some buildings to house people, supplies, equipment and animals. The considerations when making an subterranean structure are different.

Instead a subterranean structure relies upon several things:
1. It isn't readily noticed.

2. It's "walls" are for all intents and purposes unbreachable. Normal siege equipment will be useless. It will need to be stormed by attacking the entry ports which can be very narrow, and easier to defend. At best an attacker can try to dig a mine into some part of the underground structure, and perhaps attack in an unexpected area. But mining operations take time and
can be detected.

2b. This also means that there's no walls to mount a defense from. A sizeable army can camp right outside the main entrance, with no way for the defenders to threaten them.

3. It can be very irregular. Do not overlook this:

A subterranean structure can be full of corridors that lead to traps, and blind galleries (i.e. corridors that just dead-end). An old mine is a great starting point for some kind of underground stronghold.

BRC's idea of having a list of several different types of rooms would be useful.

I would construct it as many underground passageways, which link collections of rooms. Have areas where there are several rooms close together, then one must travel a ways down a corridor to reach another collection of rooms. There may be multiple different corridors that link them, or only one, or some maze, etc.

Also remember to put related rooms together. The Kitchen isn't going to be far from the storeroom, or the dining hall. An armory is probably going to be close to barracks, or perhaps a guard house.

Finally, remember the air shafts. On the outside they would probably look like small innocuous caves, that nobody would assume go very far into the mountain. These can supply emergency escape routes, or possibly allow infiltrators to send spies in.

The_Admiral
2010-07-05, 05:42 AM
how about inspiration from the Vietnam War because I remember watching a documentary about it and there was a part about the Viet Kong's underground bunkers which needed specially trained soldiers to navigate.

Tyrmatt
2010-07-05, 09:00 AM
Spin up the map of the De Arnise Keep from Baldur's Gate 2. In my opinion, there's no finer design of a castle-esq dungeon.

Another_Poet
2010-07-05, 12:28 PM
You should OM a forum member named Maxymiuk and ask if he would share the maps of Castle Fyonole. It is an underground castle that matches your description and it was a blast to adventure through. He had all the maps saved in digital form so he could probably send them over.

ap