Wild Attacks [PEACH]

[imp_fireball]

A wild attack is an attack that must follow a standard attack made in a round and it must be done on your turn. Wild attacks are free. They can be done during a full attack or following one normal attack (thus during 'spring attack', etc.).

Wild melee attacks: A wild melee attack has a -10 penalty to the attack. Each additional wild attack takes an incremental -5 penalty.

Wild Ranged Attacks: A wild ranged attack has a -8 penalty to the attack. Each additional wild ranged attack takes an incremental -4 penalty.

For both: Wild attacks do not automatically hit on a natural 20 (instead treat the roll of 20 as an attack with applied attack modifiers as normal), nor do they critically threaten, ever. You may not apply attack modifier based feats such as 'weapon finesse' or 'power attack' to wild attacks.

If the target of a wild attack has a BAB that is higher then the attacker's and is aware of the attacker, the attacker provokes one attack of opportunity from that target, even if the attack is ranged - however, the target must be wielding a weapon that has line of effect to the attacker or presently threatens their space, such as a ranged weapon or one with reach.

Attack of opportunity is made before the wild attack in such a case.

Unfocused Attack: An unfocused attack is an immediate or swift action and does not require a regular attack to come before it. Take a -20 penalty.

Those with evasion can make a reflex save to avoid the damage from an unfocused attack, assuming it hits (DC is equal to the attack roll). Improved evasion grants a +6 competence bonus to this save.

Unfocused attacks ignore concealment since the attacker isn't always looking at their target anyway.

[Milskidasith]

So... infinite free attacks after any strike, with incremental penalties?

Anybody who attacks anybody automatically kills them by rolling enough natural twenties from wild attacks with massive penalties.

This also doesn't seem to have any point; what gap in gameplay is this supposed to solve?

[Jota]

Also vorpal. I don't think you could balance this even if you made them cost AoOs or have some other limiter, but you're free to try, obviously.

[Saya]

Making the wild attacks a swift action (So that you may only do 1 per turn) or a limited free action will make it at least a little viable and not turn into a "I'm going to roll until I get a crit" thing, (Which also brings up the somewhat amusing image of a PC swinging at an enemy infinite amount of times in six seconds).

As an above poster mentioned, I don't really see what this is adding to the game besides extra attacks and shenanigans.

[imp_fireball]

Anybody who attacks anybody automatically kills them by rolling enough natural twenties from wild attacks with massive penalties.

The probability of rolling two natural 20s in a row is 1 in 400. The probability of rolling 3 in a row is 1 in 8000.

So...

[Temotei]

So...

You just keep rolling. That's it. They're free, so why wouldn't you try until you win?

[imp_fireball]

I edited it.


For both: Wild attacks do not automatically hit on a natural 20, nor do they critically threaten, ever.



As an above poster mentioned, I don't really see what this is adding to the game besides extra attacks and shenanigans.

Just makes it a little more realistic in the sense that sometimes a person will want to tear somebody to shreds if they think they can do it rather then stab them once and see if that killed them. This sort of thing happens between the homeless (effectively level 1 humanoids), so why not D&D?


what gap in gameplay is this supposed to solve?

Not really a gap but an addition. Although it does make feats like 'spring attack' a little better.

[Ashtagon]

So its basically an extra attack with a hefty penalty that can't crit and doesn't autohit on a 20?

Even so, why wouldn't everyone use this every time? And why wouldn't monsters use it every time? It's basically lots of extra dice rolling for relatively little effect.

[Milskidasith]

Well, it is very good with, say, Stormguard Warrior, since you get to make touch attacks with it; even with a -10, hitting touch AC is pretty easy so you've got some free damage on all your real attacks.

[imp_fireball]

If the target of a wild attack has a BAB that is higher then the attacker's and is aware of the attacker, the attacker provokes one attack of opportunity from that target, even if the attack is ranged - however, the target must be wielding a weapon that has line of effect to the attacker or presently threatens their space such as a ranged weapon or one with reach.

Attack of opportunity is made before the wild attack in such a case.

What about this rule?

Or maybe (choose one):

- Wild attacks always provoke one attack of opportunity from the target, assuming the target is aware of the attacker (no matter how many wild attacks are made), unless one of the two 'improved wild attacks' feat is taken - in which case the target must have a BAB that is two higher then the wild attacker in order to make an AoO against them.

'Improved Wild Attacks (melee)', in addition to the above, reduces the penalty to the first melee wild attack in a round by 2 and the incremental penalty that applies to each additional melee wild attack in the same round by 1.

'Improved Wild Attacks (ranged)', in addition to the paragraph above the sentence describing 'Improved Wild Attacks (melee)', reduces the penalty to the first ranged wild attack in a round with a light, or one handed ranged weapon by 4 (1 for two handed ranged weapons) and the incremental penalty that applies to each additional ranged wild attack in the same round by 2. However, all ranged wild attacks must be made against a creature that is also the target of a regular ranged attack.

- Wild attacks negate the attacker's dexterity bonus for the round that they are made, up until the attacker's next turn (attacker is effectively flat footed).

- Wild attacks result in a non-incremental -2 AC and an incremental -2 penalty to all regular attacks (non-wild attacks) per wild attack made in a round. Wild attacks must be declared before any regular attack is made (so that the GM may allocate appropriate penalties to every attack), but the actual attacks must still be made after at least one regular attack (and can then be dispersed between regular attacks however the attacker wishes)

- Wild attacks reduce touch AC and flatfooted AC towards target by 1, and touch AC towards everyone else by 1 for every wild attack made up until their next turn. They also incur a -1 penalty to all of their regular attacks per wild attack made. Wild attacks must be declared before the first regular attack so that the GM may allocate penalties as appropriate and then made after at least one regular attack, after which the attacker can disperse any other wild attacks between regular attacks however the they wish.


Supplementary Rule

- Ranged wild attacks may only be made against targets within the first range increment. Attacks made beyond this have 50% miss chance, unless the shooter decides to use their wisdom modifier instead of dexterity modifier for the attack (triple incremental penalties due to range).
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Verisimillitude: Logically, wild attacks would be applied best against targets the attacker is grappling or against opponents that are unaware of them.

The reason level 1 adventurers only usually have one attack/round is that they are nervously circling their opponent, waiting for an opening. However, this would only really apply when both creatures are aware of one another.

Ranged attacks are limited to 1 attack/round as standard at level 1 because it takes time to draw a string and aim. If a person makes multiple ranged attacks, they are standing still and exposing themselves to retribution.

[Susano-wo]

I think its an interesting idea(I really like the giving it all I've got stuff. Yay for power attack :smallbiggrin:) Some sort of limitations need to be in place, though. granting AoO is nice, but after the first, a lot of enemies won't have any attacks left.

I would, have it grant AoO, and only allow extras equal to your iteratives that you could take in that situation. so +6 BA would allow 2 extras on FA, but only 1 extra on basic attack, etc.

[Susano-wo]

[edit: sorry, triple post...O.o]

[Susano-wo]

[edit: sorry, triple post...O.o]

[imp_fireball]

I think its an interesting idea(I really like the giving it all I've got stuff. Yay for power attack :smallbiggrin:) Some sort of limitations need to be in place, though. granting AoO is nice, but after the first, a lot of enemies won't have any attacks left.

I would, have it grant AoO, and only allow extras equal to your iteratives that you could take in that situation. so +6 BA would allow 2 extras on FA, but only 1 extra on basic attack, etc.

My current ruling requires players to do math to determine the number of wild attacks that can be made before every wild attack after the last one would have a 0% chance of hitting.

I think, if any additional rules besides AoO are applied, then there needs to be one that forces the players to strategize, rather then simply make up to their wild attacks maximum every round (or 2 minimum, in the odd case when they discover that the enemy has combat reflexes).

[Susano-wo]

I'm not sure how much it really matters to have them do the math. I mean, if they do it twice, with-20 on the second attack, assuming no combat reflexes, since that would pretty much stop them cold in both versions, then keep going, they might have no chance to hit, but there is nothing stopping them. It just requires more book-keeping on their part. Also, that does assume they know the AC of hte opponent.

Also, even doing the math, take 1st level Joe Human fighter. +4Str(possibly not in lower stat games, but I htink that's reasonable under most games), assume no MW or better equip, and since its considered pretty weak, we'll assume no WF. So we have +5 to attack. Lets say he's fighting Platey Mcgreatsword, so he knows he has 18to 19AC. +5/-10/-15/-20. There is really no reason for him to do the first wild attack and not do the second. So either way, they will either eat the AoO and do "max attacks," or not want to risk it and not Wild attack. Its sort of six-in-one, half-dozen-in-the-other.

But hey any way you want to run it, I hope it works out. SOunds fun and interesting to me

[imp_fireball]

Blah

You got your math a little wrong.

Joe the fighter would have a +5 on the first attack. When he wild attacks (assuming melee), he'd attack with a -5 penalty (+5 - 10 = -5). Second wild attack would be at a -10 to attack (-5 - 5 = -10), with the third at -15 and the fourth at -20.

He wouldn't be able to hit anything on the fourth wild attack, so it is essentially assumed that he isn't fast enough to make one, or that his mind can't retain focus and swing at a target that quickly (whatever). The first wild attack puts him at a disadvantage already. The most he'll ever roll with a -5 penalty is 15, and since that wouldn't make it past an AC of 18 or 19, it is therefore best that he does not make any wild attacks whatsoever (it would just give the enemy what is essentially a free AoO against him).

His best bet is to go ranged, but even with one wild attack made with a ranged weapon, he isn't able to get past the opponent's AC (highest he'll roll is 17) - the upside is that fighty mcgreatsword is currently holding a great sword so he can't make an AoO against Joe.

The strategy: Joe doesn't actually know the AC of fighty mcgreatsword, but the person playing him knows that he's not all that amazing. Therefore, he elects to estimate fighty mcgreatsword's AC via ranged, wild attacks made from a high location with a good view that fighty can't reach. If the first shot hits every now and then but the wild attack never does, then he can ascertain that fighty's AC is between X and Y, etc.

The alternative is that he realizes fighty mcgreatsword is wearing full plate and so is AC is probably at least so and so (minimum 14).

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Requires a few extra neurons to be fired, but isn't that hard to figure out.