[3.5] Warforged Rogue, not sure where to take it from here.

[Jackgar]

Hello there. This being my first (real) post (Do people count welcome threads anymore?), I thought it'd be a good chance to hear some opinions from people who know more than I do. Anyway, here's the question.

So I'm playing a Rogue Warforged in an Eberron campaign (I was thinking something psychic and another race, but the other players were all Warforged, and I liked the thought of doing something weird race/class-wise), and it's been fun so far, but, due to the odd matchup, I'm having some trouble figuring out exactly what to do with him. The party's currently all level 3, except our Artificer, who's level 4 (and got his hands on a Wand of Enlarge Person, which has been just plain game-breaking so far). Another's a Fighter, who's been building towards Juggernaut, and we have a DMPC Warforged Duskblade with a tendency to get himself smacked around when he isn't tearing things to pieces with Shocking Grasp and Blade of Blood.

Anyway, my dilemma here is that, while the other characters are going and doing all this smashing, I find it hard to be much of a factor in any combat. The DM has been pretty good about giving me some short stealth sections (which get interesting with the fact that I have Mithral Body) and trapfinding, but we're in combat more often than not, and, other than a fun Choker encounter, I tend not to be much of a factor. I'm curious to hear any suggestions for beefing him up a bit. For the record, here's where he's at stat, gear, and feat-wise:

Str 10
Dex 16
Int 16
Con 16
Wis 8
Cha 8

Mithral Body
Two-Weapon Fighting

Masterwork Short Sword x2
Masterwork Dagger
Regular Dagger
Hand Crossbow

Cloak of Resistance

I had been looking at Extreme Explorer, due to the Action Point skills, but while looking at it I noticed that alot of the special class abilities overlap too much with Rogue, so other than a slightly higher hit-die, I wouldn't be getting much out of it the first couple levels. So now I'm looking for something else to try. And yes, I know that having such a small strength as a 'Forged probably isn't helping me much (it's lower than the artificer's!), and I tried doing range for awhile, but having two melee characters makes it really hard to do anything of import with my crossbow, and I really like Sneak Attack (We do a LOT of flanking, which is made easier by the Artificer using Enlarge Person on our fighter at the start of most major combats).

Anyway, what do you guys suggest checking out?

[deuxhero]

Rod of Ropes+Battlefist!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Check the excelent rogue handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233#post8711233) by PId6

Other than that.. craven (CoR) is a great option, it adds your level as bonus damage to all sneak attacks.... a two level dip into swordsage might help you to get both assassin stance (extra 2d6 SA die) and shadow blade, add you dex bonus as damage when in a shadow hand stance and using shadow hand weapons (which IIRC shortswords are, and if not your main damage doesn't come from your weapons but from your SA so using daggers is not a bad idea)

Also pump UMD to use the everuseful wands (vine grave and golem strike to deal with most SA immunities, grease for deniying dex to your enemies and thus enabling SA)

hope that helps

[deuxhero]

And as you are a warforged, wands of repair light damage are nice (and pack some "lesser restoration" made by an archivist or artificer using the level 1 verison from the Paladin list and cure light wounds for allies as well),

[Jackgar]

Thanks, guys, those definitely sound like something worth looking into. And I'll definitely be pouring over that Rogue guide.

I really should've invested in a Repair Wand a long time ago, but I've been dumb and neglecting UMD for a reason I'm not quite sure of, and it'll definitely free up space from all those Oils I've been carting around. I suppose I've just been taking the fact that we have an artificer and his infusions for granted in that. We have a pretty generous benefactor (an agent of The Lord of Blades), so I could probably get some funding for it.

As for the Swordsage idea, I'll be sure to look into it. It's in the Book of Nine swords, right? Neither I or my DM have a copy, but I'll get the class description block some way or other. (Edit: Nevermind, I actually found out I do have a copy. Not sure when I got it, but whatever!)

[Optimystik]

(I was thinking something psychic and another race, but the other players were all Warforged, and I liked the thought of doing something weird race/class-wise).

Is it too late to be a Psychic Rogue? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) That way you get the flavor you want, and you can pick up the Repair Damage powers you need to heal via EK.

Also, be a Warforged Scout (MM3) - a smaller and stealthier model, suited to rogueishness while keeping all the robotic goodies.

+2 Dex, -2 Str, Wis and Cha. Small instead of Medium. All the same immunities, plating etc. Still LA 0.

http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83078.jpg&origin=dnd_ag_20040903a

[Jackgar]

Is it too late to be a Psychic Rogue? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) That way you get the flavor you want, and you can pick up the Repair Damage powers you need to heal via EK.

Also, be a Warforged Scout (MM3) - a smaller and stealthier model, suited to rogueishness while keeping all the robotic goodies.

+2 Dex, -2 Str, Wis and Cha. Small instead of Medium. All the same immunities, plating etc. Still LA 0.

http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83078.jpg&origin=dnd_ag_20040903a

Scout looks pretty cool, but it's a Race, not something you "upgrade" to or anything, right? It's probably too late for that. I doubt my DM would let me totally re-build that way.

Funny note on scouts, we actually saved the parts of one from a particularly xenophobic sect of the Silver Flame for our benefactor. I took one look at it and said "Damn, I wish I had a small-type body like that for my guy".

[Optimystik]

Show them to him and explain they totally fit your concept. You can even have a great RP moment where the others disassemble you, botch it, and take your pieces back to House Cannith or the Mournland.

And you get -2 to 3 stats, AND have 20 ft. move speed. It's not like you're trying to be broken or anything, just be unique.

[Escheton]

Why not artificer?
Item creation, great selfbuffs. Self healing.
Trapfinding.
Good UMD.
and some more stuff

Either way get yourself some craft: blacksmithing, gemcrafting, armorsmithing or something like it.
It will allow you to spend 8 hours to repair yourself equal to check result -15.
Seeing you don't sleep and can do so while taking guardduty it's quite handy.

[Optimystik]

Seeing you don't sleep and can do so while taking guardduty it's quite handy.

None of them sleep :smalltongue:

(And they have an Artificer already)

[Jackgar]

Why not artificer?
Item creation, great selfbuffs. Self healing.
Trapfinding.
Good UMD.
and some more stuff

Either way get yourself some craft: blacksmithing, gemcrafting, armorsmithing or something like it.
It will allow you to spend 8 hours to repair yourself equal to check result -15.
Seeing you don't sleep and can do so while taking guardduty it's quite handy.

We have an Artificer, who's been doing quite a good job so far, and I made sure to take up some ranks of Craft: Repair, so I'm doing that healing already. In fact, we all made sure to take it, just in case. I do need to get my UMD up alot, though.


Show them to him and explain they totally fit your concept. You can even have a great RP moment where the others disassemble you, botch it, and take your pieces back to House Cannith or the Mournland.

And you get -2 to 3 stats, AND have 20 ft. move speed. It's not like you're trying to be broken or anything, just be unique.

That would probably work. I keep getting worried that, since or DM is having us fight pretty high over our normal CR, in order to get us leveled up faster (or group's never managed to get the whole bunch to a particularly high level, so he's making sure to set this campaign up so we have high-risk, high-reward advancement. Hell, at level 3, we managed to defeat a Gibbering Mouther and a couple Gricks! Thank the Powers for high Con and Mithral/Adamantine Body feats), so I'm constantly worried I'm gonna get killed hard due to be the squishiest of us, so when that day comes, maybe we could work that in. Kudos for the idea!

[Fouredged Sword]

For the love of Palor! Somebody grab a wand of stinking cloud! None of you breathe! In an all warforged party it's a battle ender.

[Jackgar]

For the love of Palor! Somebody grab a wand of stinking cloud! None of you breathe! In an all warforged party it's a battle ender.

Hah, I'll definitely propose that to our Artificer, although we find ourselves facing Aberrations and full Constructs more and more often. It'll be nice against the Silver Flame guys, though.

[Optimystik]

Note that your Warforged Scout Psychic Rogue can also boost his psionic flavor by becoming a Psiforged Scout - i.e. taking the Psiforged Body feat in Magic of Eberron. Just make sure your crystals are a matte finish so you can still sneak around.

[hotel_papa]

Wait... you're a rogue who wants to be more effective in combat and no one has suggested Daring Outlaw? It's a feat from Complete Scoundrel that lets your Rogue levels stack with levels of Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior for the purposes of Grace, the Dodge Bonus to AC and sneak attack.

You even get weapon finesse for free.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would second the Psionic rogue class for all future levels. It would bump your sneak attack up by one next level, and give you some nice psionics. To bad you can't restart your character as a psiforged scout. Ether way you have a nice set if you start now.

See if, when you get second level psionic rogue level, your DM will let you trade out your rogue evasion for ray reflection or let you take that ACF for the psi-rogue. It works wonders and will make you resist everything but save-or-dies.

Dareing outlaw is very nice as well, and you happen to be at the right level to break off of rogue and go for it. It will up your BaB quite a bit over the rogue normal and add that int to damage. Start takeing levels of swashbuckler and then the feat is in complete scoundrel.

I would also dip swordsage for the dex to damage feat and some nice utility manuvers. Dip at 4th level and you can pick up mountain hammer and ignore DR when you need to. Also there is a shadow hand strike that lets you roll two attacks and take the best roll. Ilse of blades is a nice level one stance that lets you flank from any angle. It's shadow hand, so it's what you are looking for for the shadow hand feat for extra damage.

A second dip in later levels will pick you up assasins stance and wis to armor, not that it looks like that would do you that much good. Make sure you read the initiator level rules to pick the right levels to dip swordsage.

[Jackgar]

Well this has all been some great advice so far. It's good to see I have a nice amount of options. Daring Rogue and Swordsage in particular seem like things I'll invest in, and the psiforged Scout Psychic Rogue idea looks like alot of fun. I probably won't use psychic Rogue for this guy, but if he manages to get himself killed, I'd probably go with that for a replacement (I'm sure the DM and I could figure out some plot mumbo-jumbo about the scout body we recovered and some kind of consciousness transfer to allow him to switch to the body with his memories intact, at least partially).

I've been wondering something about Assassin's Stance, though. I see people saying how if you dip into it at later levels for two levels, you can pick it up, but I'm looking at the book, and it says Swordsage 3 on the reqs. whatsupwitdat?

[Optimystik]

(I'm sure the DM and I could figure out some plot mumbo-jumbo about the scout body we recovered and some kind of consciousness transfer to allow him to switch to the body with his memories intact, at least partially).

Okay, that would be awesome. Your character gets splattered in a tough fight, and the others save your "memory core"; and your mutual creator/benefactor/repair-man just happens to have an experimental prototype body on hand to install it in...

[Escheton]

Well this has all been some great advice so far. It's good to see I have a nice amount of options. Daring Rogue and Swordsage in particular seem like things I'll invest in, and the psiforged Scout Psychic Rogue idea looks like alot of fun. I probably won't use psychic Rogue for this guy, but if he manages to get himself killed, I'd probably go with that for a replacement (I'm sure the DM and I could figure out some plot mumbo-jumbo about the scout body we recovered and some kind of consciousness transfer to allow him to switch to the body with his memories intact, at least partially).

I've been wondering something about Assassin's Stance, though. I see people saying how if you dip into it at later levels for two levels, you can pick it up, but I'm looking at the book, and it says Swordsage 3 on the reqs. whatsupwitdat?

It means you must have 5 initiatorlvls to get it. Which could come from 8 noninitiatorlvls and 1 swordsage lvl.
There is some debate whether you must take first lvl stances as a first lvl swordsage, crusader or warblade though.

love the warforged party, because a warforged party don't stop-idea.

[Jackgar]

I'm looking at the section on Initiator levels right now. Seems a little bit confusing at first glance. I'm sure reading it a couple times will let me get it down better, though.

Glad to see people like the Warforged party. They've been fun to play so far. Much of our campaign has revolved around anti-Warforged sentiment that alot of people still hold. It seems like half the authorities we meet want to take us in on suspicions just due to us being a Warforged, but at the same time we've also been making partners with more open-minded authority figures to try and counterbalance.

I'll just have to make sure to stay out of our (very impulsive) Figher's way once he makes Juggernaut. And when I say impulsive, I mean the kind who's gone up and tried to bash in the door to a secret underground lab without letting me check for traps first. I'm sure you can guess how THAT turned out.

[Optimystik]

What are your names? Are they standard one-word-describes-function Warforged names?

[Fouredged Sword]

You get 1/2 of any non initiator class added into you initiator level. There is a debate back and forth about the wording of the first level of the classes that sparks a lack of concensus though. The class states you begin play knowing a "level one stance". Some read this as not being able to take a non-first level stance when you multiclass into the class due to "begining play with a level one stance" Others read that as for begining play only and not restricting a multiclass entry. Ask your DM or take a second level. The second level is nice anyway.

So for clarification, if you read it that you can take a non-first level stance, you can take swordsage at 5th level and pick up assasin's stance.

If you must take a first level stance at swordsage one you an take swordsage as early as your 3rd and 4th level and take assasin's stance at 4th.

The goal, it looks like in your case, is to go something like rogue 3 / swashbuckler 1 / swordsage 1 or 2 / swashbucker ---. The 1 or 2 is based on the above conterversy. Also read and make sure you can take dareing outlaw with one level of swashbuckler. I am AFB right now.

In the end, with craven, assasin's stance, dareing outlaw, and shadowhand blade, you end up with damage looking like weapon+str+dex+int+11d6+character level. All this at full BaB-2. That is crazy. That is rogue.

[Jackgar]

What are your names? Are they standard one-word-describes-function Warforged names?

Sorta? They're all about 1 word. One is just a letter and a symbol. They don't really have much to do with their function, except for the DMPC Duskblade.

Mine is Delta
Artificer is G' (Read G-Prime)
Fighter is Rusty
Duskblade is Flourish


In the end, with craven, assasin's stance, dareing outlaw, and shadowhand blade, you end up with damage looking like weapon+str+dex+int+11d6+character level. All this at full BaB-2. That is crazy. That is rogue.
Thanks for clearing up the initiator thing. My DM's generous enough that I think he'd allow me to pick stances higher than 1st level at Swordsage 1. And I've heard Craven mentioned a couple times. Which book is that in? I haven't done a ton in the way of supplemental materials, since my group and I have been content with just keeping with fairly basic stuff. But we're doing a campaign that's quite out-of-the-ordinary for us, and our DM's given us permission to go nuts if we choose to. So hey, why not?

[Sliver]

So... Was the Enlarge Person spell houseruled or something? Warforged aren't humanoids, doesn't work on them... Wand should be useless.

[Jackgar]

So... Was the Enlarge Person spell houseruled or something? Warforged aren't humanoids, doesn't work on them... Wand should be useless.

Considering it was the DM's suggestion in the first place, I'm going to say that yes, it was houseruled in. I always thought it affected them like anyone else, due to the Living Construct type giving them alot of traits of normal humanoids, but either way, the DM's not only allowed it, but encouraged it.

[Escheton]

I do recall assassins stance being a lvl 3 stance, so you would need 5 initiatorlvls. Or 8 non-initiator lvls and 1 initiator lvl. Or a 4 non and 3 init.

also, it seems you guys are actual down with roleplaying. And as such I must warn you about the craven feat. Sure, it's great dmg...but theres a catch.
You are craven.

craven:
adjective cowardly, weak, scared, fearful, abject, dastardly, mean-spirited, timorous, pusillanimous, chicken**** (U.S. slang), chicken-hearted, yellow (informal), lily-livered The craven attackers pounced on the boy and stabbed him before fleeing.
lacking even the rudiments of courage; abjectly fearful

[Jackgar]

I do recall assassins stance being a lvl 3 stance, so you would need 5 initiatorlvls. Or 8 non-initiator lvls and 1 initiator lvl. Or a 4 non and 3 init.

also, it seems you guys are actual down with roleplaying. And as such I must warn you about the craven feat. Sure, it's great dmg...but theres a catch.
You are craven.

craven:
adjective cowardly, weak, scared, fearful, abject, dastardly, mean-spirited, timorous, pusillanimous, chicken**** (U.S. slang), chicken-hearted, yellow (informal), lily-livered The craven attackers pounced on the boy and stabbed him before fleeing.
lacking even the rudiments of courage; abjectly fearful

Yeah.....being like that might not mesh well for a neutral good Warforged, personality-wise. Warforged aren't exactly cowardly, after all. We're not hardcore roleplayers or anything, but we're definitely trying to develop our characters at least some. The other two players don't really have much roleplaying experience in the terms of actually...ya know...playing a ROLE (They've played D&D before, obviously, but with more rollplayan than Roleplaying). I've got roleplaying experience both in RPG's and elsewhere, so I wouldn't want to take a trait I don't feel would fit my character's personality. Being a young Warforged, he is still developing his individuality like most others, but I can't say I want him to be...well...chicken****.

[Fouredged Sword]

oops, my bad. The man above is right. It takes an equivelent of 5 swordsage levels to gain a 3rd level stance. That means your build looks like

rouge 3 / swashbuckler 5 / swordsage 1 / swashbuckler ---.

just move the swordsage to later.

Craven, I belive, is in Champions of Ruin, one of the faerun books. You take a -2 vs fear effects but gain +1 damage per character level to sneak attack. It's great for a feat, but not the endall beat all. You will do a lot of damage as a dareing outlaw. Consider going TWF as an alternative feat option to capitalize that shiny BaB.

[Optimystik]

Actually, Races of Eberron has Warforged being quite susceptible to fear (both fluffwise and mechanically.) During their development, it would be used as a control mechanism against them.

Warforged have no concept of inactivity, because they don't sleep. Because they are used to observing everything that goes on in their immediate vicinity, the idea of lacking awareness, and the world changing around them, is frightening to them.

Perhaps more than any other race, Warforged fear death - even not counting the fact that they have no idea what waits for them after life, just being brought back and the world being different from where they left off is traumatic to them. A Craven Warforged therefore would therefore fight extremely dirty (mechanically, massive bonuses to sneak attack) to avoid being rendered inert by a more straightforward and difficult fight.

[Jackgar]

Actually, Races of Eberron has Warforged being quite susceptible to fear (both fluffwise and mechanically.) During their development, it would be used as a control mechanism against them.

Warforged have no concept of inactivity, because they don't sleep. Because they are used to observing everything that goes on in their immediate vicinity, the idea of lacking awareness, and the world changing around them, is frightening to them.

Perhaps more than any other race, Warforged fear death - even not counting the fact that they have no idea what waits for them after life, just being brought back and the world being different from where they left off is traumatic to them. A Craven Warforged therefore would therefore fight extremely dirty (mechanically, massive bonuses to sneak attack) to avoid being rendered inert by a more straightforward and difficult fight.

That certainly does make sense, but again, I'm not sure I want my character to be particularly cowardly. It wouldn't fit with some of the action he's already taken, like going out by himself to divert suspicious Silver Flame guards to allow my allies to escape.

And speaking of fear effects, our group knows full well how vulnerable we are to fear effects, as we had one particular enemy constantly trying to Fear our Duskblade, to decent effect. Our DM seems to like throwing mental effects at us, by evidence of him pitting us against a Gibbering Mouther, of all things. For the first few rounds, the Fighter and I had to face it down on our own, since the Artificer and Duskblade kept failing their Will checks. Go figure that the Rogue and Fighter resisted the effects when the other two didn't.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you ever do make that psycic rogue later. Tip, go spellthief for 2nd level and pick up psythief as the feat. Use the temp psi-points you steal for rechargeing your psiforged body. It works great. You gain 2d6 sneak attack at level 2 and play havok on any mage or psionic character you fight.

Pick up an arm crossbow warforged thingy and power it with vigor.

[Jackgar]

If you ever do make that psycic rogue later. Tip, go spellthief for 2nd level and pick up psythief as the feat. Use the temp psi-points you steal for rechargeing your psiforged body. It works great. You gain 2d6 sneak attack at level 2 and play havok on any mage or psionic character you fight.

Pick up an arm crossbow warforged thingy and power it with vigor.

That sounds like a good way to really make casters angry, which is fine with me. And I've had my eye on the arm-mounted crossbow for some time, if just because it'd be cool to have one of those on one arm and an embedded wand of magic missile or something on the other, so he can do some gunz-a-blazin', but I have a feeling the artificer will beat me to it.

Anyway, this has all been lots of help in envisioning how I'll shape my character. Not just crunch-wise, but with flavor,too. When I start taking swashbuckler levels (probably at the end of the next session, the way our exp is moving along), I'm picturing him as a Forged who has taken to the stories of stylish, clever heroes in stories told by the fleshy races, and decides to try and become one. His high Int means he probably reads alot in all that downtime Warforged need to fill, so he'd become quite familiar with the tales. His high Dex allows him to pull off some of the flashy, disorienting moves those heroes would use, although he doesn't quite have the Charisma to pull off their witty one-liners or have a way with the ladies like they do. And, when I take that level or two of Swordsage (perhaps inspired by stories of kensai-like figures in other heroic tales), he'd be able to pull off a move or two enemies wouldn't expect from a robot. All this might even make me want to have him eventually become Reforged, which would make an interesting contrast to our soon-to-be Juggernaut, who will have to shed alot of the "living" part of his living-construct nature.

What do you guys think?

[DMBlackhart]

Hmm, cool concept so far. I don't reallt have any advise though. just a fellow appreciator of action!

[Hague]

"I am Bender. Please insert girder."

Get that wand blasting arm and get yourself a Wand of Grease or hand replacements as gauntlets of dexterity.

Maybe get the GM to let you install extra-dimensional sets of toolhands so you'll never be without the right tools. Got your repair tools, lockpicking tools, etc. Your original function was as a sorta battlefield engineer so you have knowledge architecture that lets you analyze structures for weak points, etc.

[Optimystik]

For more on Warforged, these (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a) two (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050711a) articles by Keith Baker should prove interesting. They delve into more esoteric concepts, such as Warforged weight (with the various plating feats), The Warforged senses of smell and taste, and the meaning behind the insignia on their foreheads - as unique an identifier for warforged as a fingerprint.

[Jackgar]

Well I'm always down for adding some good fluff. Especially if I do decide to have him Reforge. I used to read Magic fluff-related articles alot. I should read more D&D ones,too.

I am seriously considering investing in a Wand of Grease. A quick and easy to way to have someone lose their precious dex bonus. I think I'll ask our Artificer if he's willing to make one or two of 'em.

Since we're talking about magic weapons, what sort of things should I be aiming for? Obviously dex-increasing stuff, but I imagine a lot of it would have to be put inside the body. What's the usual price adjustment for making an installed version of an item?

[Optimystik]

I am seriously considering investing in a Wand of Grease. A quick and easy to way to have someone lose their precious dex bonus. I think I'll ask our Artificer if he's willing to make one or two of 'em.

I take it then that your DM didn't let you retrain? A Psychic Rogue can pick up Psionic Grease easily.


Since we're talking about magic weapons, what sort of things should I be aiming for? Obviously dex-increasing stuff, but I imagine a lot of it would have to be put inside the body. What's the usual price adjustment for making an installed version of an item?

The rules for Warforged Components are in ECS and RoE, IIRC.

[Jackgar]

I take it then that your DM didn't let you retrain? A Psychic Rogue can pick up Psionic Grease easily.



The rules for Warforged Components are in ECS and RoE, IIRC.

I was just looking through those sections in both books, and while it gives the rules for putting them on and taking them off, I can't find anything about price adjustments. Like if I want gauntlets of dexterity, it doesn't say what it would cost to turn those into fists for warforged. Or maybe it doesn't change the price anyway? Here's hoping.

Well I showed him the thread, and he said Psychic Rogue does look neat, but it's alot to keep track of (which is true). I don't think I'll retrain, but I'll keep the "if he dies, then he gets put into a psy rogue body" idea. Keep his memories, just add "Mk. II" to the end of his name.

[Optimystik]

I don't think it's all that hard to track (A spellthief or factotum has a lot more bookkeeping IMO) but that decision belongs to the two of you anyway.

There is only one rule with Warforged Component costs - components that do not take up a body slot cost twice what they normally would as magic items. Keep that in mind when crafting a normal item to be used as a component. The advantage, of course, is that such items cannot be stolen or sundered (the latter only applies to embedded, not attached components.)

[Jackgar]

I don't think it's all that hard to track (A spellthief or factotum has a lot more bookkeeping IMO) but that decision belongs to the two of you anyway.

There is only one rule with Warforged Component costs - components that do not take up a body slot cost twice what they normally would as magic items. Keep that in mind when crafting a normal item to be used as a component. The advantage, of course, is that such items cannot be stolen or sundered (the latter only applies to embedded, not attached components.)

Just for clarification, I know things like disks are embedded, but as for attached, if I had my hands, say, completely replaced with gauntlets, does that still count as attached because it's on a limb?

[Optimystik]

Just for clarification, I know things like disks are embedded, but as for attached, if I had my hands, say, completely replaced with gauntlets, does that still count as attached because it's on a limb?

All the gauntlet components I've seen (like the Battlefist and Traction Gauntlets) fit over your hands rather than replacing them, and they are all considered "attached."

[Escheton]

Don't forget to have them made with racial and classial(?) prereqs to drop price. Making warforged-only warforged add-ons sounds redundant but it would actually help.

Dipping a lvl or 2 of spellthief will let you use eternal wands as well I think.
Which is nice.

[Jackgar]

Don't forget to have them made with racial and classial(?) prereqs to drop price. Making warforged-only warforged add-ons sounds redundant but it would actually help.

Dipping a lvl or 2 of spellthief will let you use eternal wands as well I think.
Which is nice.

I would just use the term class-based. I don't think classial is a word. :smallwink:

Anyway, spelltheif would be cool, but I don't think I'd want to take levels from more than 3 classes total, and I'm pretty decided on Swash and maybe a level of swordsage. (Rogue is included as one of the 3) I don't want to run out of room in the class/level spot on my character sheet, after all :p

What about feats later on in the game? I'm definitely taking Daring Outlaw and finishing the TWF feat tree. What are some others worth looking into later?