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View Full Version : [3.5] How can I make my flesh golem scarier?



Jergmo
2010-07-10, 12:57 AM
In an upcoming campaign that ressurects one of my old characters, a high-level Necromancer, I've got a flesh golem bodyguard and I'm trying to make it as powerful as I possibly can. It has 18 HD and I can't advance it any further due to size concerns. As per my fancy PRC which allows me to create more powerful versions of flesh golems, it was constructed mainly from the bodies of orcs to grant it their bonus to strength. Here are all the ways it's been enhanced thus far:

Improved Flesh Golem (PRC bonus): +2 Str and Dex, +2 natural armor. Flesh golems I create have no chance of going berserk. d12 HD instead of d10.
My DM allowed my Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones to apply, due to the ceremony requiring Animate Dead: +4 Str, +2 hp/die, +4 Initiative, +10 speed
Embalm spell, Complete Book of Necromantic Spells: +2 hp/die
Infuse Dead Flesh spell, Secret College of Necromancy: +2 hp/caster level, total 32 hp
Orc body part grafts: +4 Str
Hobgoblin body part gratfs: +2 Dex

Total: +10 Str, +4 Dex, +2 natural armor, +6 hp/die, +32 hp, +4 Initiative, +10 speed, d12 HD.

Do the fair folk of the Playground have any additional ideas as to how my monstrosity could be enhanced? :smallconfused:

I can also graft any large-sized one-handed weapon in place of its slam attack, or the natural attack of another creature. Thus far the only one I've found that's better than its 2d8 is an Iron Golem's 2d10, though I'm not 100% sure if I can get away with that unless it'd be used purely as an enclosed-fist bludgeon. The plan so far is to put a +2 enhancement on one of its attacks. Would a Keen weapon of some variety be better, perhaps?

Current stats:
Flesh golem
HP: 263 Init: +5 AC: 22 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +12 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 21
Speed: 40 ft.
Attack: +2 slam +25 melee (2d8+12)
Full Attack: +2 slam +25/+20/+15 melee (2d8+12) and slam +23 melee (2d8+10)
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6
Str 31, Dex 13, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 1
Construct traits, DR 5/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision

Dr.Epic
2010-07-10, 02:01 AM
They heal with lightning. Maybe it has some sort of magical item that bursts with lightning ever so often: heal the monster and harm the PCs.

Hague
2010-07-10, 02:05 AM
Awaken it and give it class levels and feats :D

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 02:05 AM
Spellstitched from Complete Arcane.
You might want to buff wis a bit first.

Also, awaken undead?

Edit: swordsage'd

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 02:10 AM
Actually, this is a rather interesting circumstance: I and one of my friends are the PCs, along with a DMPC. It was originally just me and the DM gave me six different options for the campaign: I chose a setting where all arcane magic is outlawed, and a Spanish Inquisition-esque order of Clerics and Paladins are hunting us all down as well as other bounty hunters. Our characters are essentially the most powerful arcane spellcasters still alive except for a few others, making us the main shakers of the campaign.

I'll have to check out Spellstitched, thanks for the suggestion! :smallsmile:

The lightning-generating item could be rather useful, though setting it up so it can keep affecting the golem is an interesting question. Although the DMPC is a Sorcerer/Elemental Savant focused in Electricity, so that definitely helps. :smallwink:

I'll have to see if Awaken Undead could be used here as well! Although I'll have to make sure to keep the bloke happy, then, seeing as it wouldn't be under my control anymore and it wouldn't really be subject to Control Undead and the like.

Flickerdart
2010-07-10, 02:12 AM
Build it out of mouths.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 02:17 AM
Build it out of mouths.

Heh. Well, I had another idea for a creation that could well have that be implemented (sort of), though it'd be a more horrifying concept than my companions would be comfortable with. Having undead dragon guardians and flesh golems is one thing, but...

An "advanced flesh puppet" is another. A flesh puppet is a mere familiar under regular means, and it has some shapeshifting properties. It requires menstrual blood and an umbilical cord or placenta to create it.

Only I wanted to take it up...quite a few notches. Yes. Giant shapeshifting undead monster...

Example responses that I received:
"Are you trying to create the Wave o' Babies?"
"Why don't you create a legion of skeletal kittens while you're at it?"

Edit: Actually, wait. A loophole just occured to me! A beautiful, beautiful loophole. :smallbiggrin: Another feature of my PRC is that the body part/organ grafts I perform allow me to set up a Dominate effect on the subject. The only issue is that it would be 100 XP per HD... :smallfrown: Based on what I'm starting at, I wouldn't have had enough XP on hand to do it.

Hague
2010-07-10, 02:18 AM
Awaken Undead? I meant Awaken Construct.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-10, 02:19 AM
Build it out of mouths.

Mouths and eyes like a humanoid gibbering mouther.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 02:20 AM
Awaken Undead? I meant Awaken Construct.

Ohh. *Looks that up* 1 level away from 9th level spells, though that's good to keep in mind.

The Antigamer
2010-07-10, 02:37 AM
Quick question, what is the PrC? Also, the campaign sounds fun!

I gotta second the find a way to make an electricity explosion centered on your golem idea. Maybe have a bandoleer across his chest with alchemist fire's electricity equivalent (Forget what it's called) placed in slots, and every time you command him to he hits a bottle, exploding in a burst centered on himself, but more than likely also hitting at least the character in front of him. Tried to find a non-magical solution for 'ya, since it sounds like not the easiest world to get magic items in.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 02:43 AM
Quick question, what is the PrC?

The PRC is Chirurgeon, from the 3.0 book by AEG simply called "Undead." It's fairly nice - full spellcasting progression. I skipped out on the level 10 cap, which would allow me to transplant brains, but I can graft limbs and organs from various races to grant racial bonuses to attributes, things like that - I also have abilities to sense and control recipients of grafts, if I pay the price in XP. Can convert spell slots to heal corporeal undead and flesh golems...and create improved flesh golems.

Lev
2010-07-10, 03:20 AM
There's a few ways to do this, magic items is one, the lightning idea is good and I think you should use that, another is changing the terrain.

I suggest making the encounter area a sand floor and take note of how that works from the Sandstorm sourcebook.

Then you could give it feats like sandskimmer, scorpion sense, scorpion instincts and sand camouflage.

The flesh golem could be hiding under the sand as the PC's enter the room, BOOM he pops out in a brilliant explosion of lightning that courses through the ground creating veins of glass throughout the floor-- characters hit for lightning damage must make a reflex save or risk having glass fused to them.

Runestar
2010-07-10, 05:35 AM
Irritating how awaken construct cannot be used on golems, since they are subject to sr. :smallannoyed:

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 07:02 AM
Meh... there's gotta be a way around that somehow... *looks at sourcebooks*

Runestar
2010-07-10, 07:27 AM
Make it a SU ability via dweomerkeeper?

PersonMan
2010-07-10, 08:09 AM
Can you "drop" spell resistance? If so, order it to do so. Done.

Morph Bark
2010-07-10, 08:31 AM
They heal with lightning. Maybe it has some sort of magical item that bursts with lightning ever so often: heal the monster and harm the PCs.

Better yet, give it a feat that grants it Lightning Gauntlets from Magic of Incarnum. Free at-will healing!

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 08:35 AM
Better yet, give it a feat that grants it Lightning Gauntlets from Magic of Incarnum. Free at-will healing!

Don't you need con for that stuff?

Morph Bark
2010-07-10, 08:40 AM
Don't you need con for that stuff?

Bah, trivialities! :smalltongue:

EDIT: "Trivialities" as in, since soulmelds work rather like magic items, you might as well make some gauntlets that do the same thing. Plus, since there is a feat for Undead meldshapers, you could just as well make it work for constructs, which works even better here since the DM allowed undead-creation-boosting feats to work.

Skaven
2010-07-10, 09:10 AM
Give it a bunch of magical equipment.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 10:13 AM
-snip-

*Points at above posts* No, Lev, I am the PCs. (Though nothing is a zombie just yet.) Also, I can't give it feats until I can get it awakened.


Give it a bunch of magical equipment.

That works, too. Although I'm currently trying to figure out which things will benefit it and which won't, due to the immunity to things that allow spell resistance bit. Thus far it seems I can give it an item with Permanent See Invisibility for 18k gp...

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 10:31 AM
Better yet, give it a feat that grants it Lightning Gauntlets from Magic of Incarnum. Free at-will healing!

Don't you need feats (that golems don't get) for that?

Coidzor
2010-07-10, 10:52 AM
"Why don't you create a legion of skeletal kittens while you're at it?"

Skeletal kitten swarm. Though they'd be like, 1/4 to one step down below that HD.

Only good against things that can't fight swarms though, gotta admit. Funny mental image though.

9mm
2010-07-10, 11:11 AM
give it moobs.

all and all spellstiched and awaken will probably give you what you want.

Darrin
2010-07-10, 11:41 AM
Do the fair folk of the Playground have any additional ideas as to how my monstrosity could be enhanced?


Start with a Serpentflesh Golem instead of a Flesh Golem. Same price to build, but the Serpentflesh starts with:

11 HD instead of 9 HD
Speed 40' instead of speed 30'
AC 21 instead of AC 18
2 slams +11 melee (2d6+4) and 1 bite +11 melee (1d8+2 plus poison)
DR 10/adamantine instead of DR 5/adamantine

Also, you can add additional arms to the body for only 5000 GP each (and I'm assuming this means each arm adds an additional slam attack to its full attack progression).

aivanther
2010-07-10, 11:42 AM
Seems you got good advice on mechanical scariness, but you need some horror to.

Give it like three heads and extra arms. Make sure all the heads are the grandparents of the PCs or other deceased loved ones. Make the heads moan and weep as it goes. Give it apparent body parts that really are corpsecrafted baby zombies, that it rips off and hurls at the pcs. Really creep them out and intimidate them with what hte thing is.

Morph Bark
2010-07-10, 11:48 AM
Don't you need feats (that golems don't get) for that?

Awaken construct, anyone?


Seems you got good advice on mechanical scariness, but you need some horror to.

Give it like three heads and extra arms. Make sure all the heads are the grandparents of the PCs or other deceased loved ones. Make the heads moan and weep as it goes. Give it apparent body parts that really are corpsecrafted baby zombies, that it rips off and hurls at the pcs. Really creep them out and intimidate them with what hte thing is.

The OP has stated several times he is one of the PCs.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 11:57 AM
Awaken construct, anyone?

It's a 9th level spell and I'm level 16.

Coidzor
2010-07-10, 11:59 AM
It's a 9th level spell and I'm level 16.

Something to look forward to next level then at least. :smallbiggrin:

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-10, 12:02 PM
Add spikes. Spikes make everything more intimidating.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 12:04 PM
Something to look forward to next level then at least. :smallbiggrin:

Aye! For the time being I'm mostly just trying to make it as strong as I can, to make the expense worthwhile. I'm still looking for the best thing to use as its primary attack - right now it appears to be a +1 keen medium-sized falchion. Sadly, there don't appear to be any Large-sized creatures that can match a golem's natural attack for raw base damage. :smallfrown:


Add spikes. Spikes make everything more intimidating.

Hmm...can a golem be commanded to grapple?

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 12:15 PM
The lightning-generating item could be rather useful, though setting it up so it can keep affecting the golem is an interesting question. Although the DMPC is a Sorcerer/Elemental Savant focused in Electricity, so that definitely helps. :smallwink:Improved Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedFamiliar) (Shocker Lizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shockerLizard.htm)) riding on it's back. Or maybe just in a compartment for the purpose inside the flesh golem. 2d8/3 healing every round. You could also get the Electrical reserve feat from Complete Mage, and do it yourself (but that costs you actions).

Potentially, as golems are created as magic items, you could use the Intelligent Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) rules to make it a smart golem, with some unusual powers (and, as it's now is a creature with hit dice and an Int score, it also gets some skills and feats... like, say, Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), and Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Power Attack, Improved Trip, and Blind Fight?

aivanther
2010-07-10, 12:27 PM
The OP has stated several times he is one of the PCs.

:smallconfused:
:smalleek:

And I read that to...what the heck is wrong with me...guess I need more coffee

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 12:33 PM
Potentially, as golems are created as magic items, you could use the Intelligent Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) rules to make it a smart golem, with some unusual powers (and, as it's now is a creature with hit dice and an Int score, it also gets some skills and feats... like, say, Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), and Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Power Attack, Improved Trip, and Blind Fight?

Whoa, whoa, whoa...whoa. You can use the Intelligent Items rules for golems?!

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 12:33 PM
:smallconfused:
:smalleek:

And I read that to...what the heck is wrong with me...guess I need more coffee


*pours coffee*

What about multiple flesh golems?
Spellstitched support flying undead with AoE lightning damage?

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 12:38 PM
*pours coffee*

What about multiple flesh golems?
Spellstitched support flying undead with AoE lightning damage?

Haha, that would be great. :smalltongue:

What I'd really like is to find a Beholder and graft a couple of its eyes into a flesh golem. Or the undead dragon guardian I plan to create. Or both! Sadly, I doubt my DM will have a Beholder for me to find. :smallfrown:

Hmm...now that I think about it, though, the rules for Craft: Construct allow me to combine multiple bodies which would mean maybe an additional head if he'll let something from Savage Species pass. A couple extra HD, as well as Superior Two-Weapon Fighting and the like...

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 12:41 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa...whoa. You can use the Intelligent Items rules for golems?!

Potentially. Craft Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#craftConstruct) is an item-creation feat, golems are created as magic items, and Intelligent Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) can be made of "permanent magic items" (golems don't get "used up", just destroyed). Now, they're creatures, not magic items, but it's not usually going to be too hard to argue it from a rules perspective... usually.

Now, Intelligent items are EXPENSIVE, but for an extra 4,600 gp market, you can give it minimal intelligence, and the ability to Detect Magic at-will (which is more useful than you might think).

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 12:48 PM
Potentially. Craft Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#craftConstruct) is an item-creation feat, golems are created as magic items, and Intelligent Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) can be made of "permanent magic items" (golems don't get "used up", just destroyed). Now, they're creatures, not magic items, but it's not usually going to be too hard to argue it from a rules perspective... usually.

Now, Intelligent items are EXPENSIVE, but for an extra 4,600 gp market, you can give it minimal intelligence, and the ability to Detect Magic at-will (which is more useful than you might think).

Hmm... :smallconfused:

Now the question is, how will the Ego score work here?

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 12:57 PM
Ooh, intelligent item-ing it is perfect for getting enough wis for decent spellstitching.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 12:59 PM
Hmm... :smallconfused:

Now the question is, how will the Ego score work here?

It'll have an Ego score of something like 3. Constructs have easily-definable creators and owners (and the creator can re-assign the owner at whim), so you're only worried about the nat-1 clause. Oh yes, and as you're the creator, it has your alignment. Pick up a 0-wish Luck Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#luckBlade) to reroll the occasional 1, and you're set.

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 01:07 PM
Gahahaha! The DM won't let me do the Intelligent Item bit, but he will let me combine bodies for Multiheaded and an extra set of arms. :smallamused:

Multiheaded Flesh golem
HP: 329 Init: +9 AC: 23 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +13 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 22
Speed: 40 ft.
Attack: +1 keen falchion +25 melee (2d4+11, 15-20/x2)
Full Attack: +1 keen falchion +25/+20/+15 melee (2d4+11, 15-20/x2) and 3 slams +24 melee (2d8+10, x2)
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6
Skills: Listen +2, Search +2, Spot +2
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Superior Multiweapon Fighting
Str 31, Dex 13, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 1
Construct traits, DR 5/adamantine, darkvision 90 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Gem of See Invisibility, 1d6 armor spikes

Turns out Infuse Dead Flesh lets me go further at a risk, and I took it. Will save DC 20 or lose 1 Con permanently, but it let me pump its HP up by 41 more points. ...I rolled a natural 1, the only way I could have possibly failed. :smallfrown: On the bright side, his Con was 13 before.

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 01:40 PM
Why doesn't it have items of +armour, +str and +dex?

Also, saves are terrible. Maybe magic immunity makes up for that? Cloak of resistance?

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 01:43 PM
Why doesn't it have items of +armour, +str and +dex?

Also, saves are terrible. Maybe magic immunity makes up for that? Cloak of resistance?

+armor doesn't seem like it's going to make a big difference here, though it couldn't benefit from +Str and Dex items due to its Magic Immunity. A double-edged sword, that.



Also, I'm off to work soon, so I'll be unresponsive in the thread for the next eight hours.

Vulaas
2010-07-10, 02:43 PM
I also would recommend using the eyes off of a Balor to give your golem True Seeing and the +8 racial to spot, or maybe off of a Pit Fiend so it can see in magical darkness.

vampire2948
2010-07-10, 02:51 PM
I also would recommend using the eyes off of a Balor to give your golem True Seeing and the +8 racial to spot, or maybe off of a Pit Fiend so it can see in magical darkness.

Can he do one of each?

Jergmo
2010-07-10, 07:34 PM
Well, things are unexpectedly slow at the moment! Unfortunately, I don't think grafting works with Outsiders, not being made of good ol' Prime Material junk and all. :smallfrown: