Better way to do Psychic Warrior? (3.5 SRD)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, I like the concept of the Psychic Warrior, but I don't like as much the 3/4 BAB.

Is there a way to replicate the mystic warrior archetype using psychic races, focus feats, that sort of thing? Or dipping and using other classes to wind up with a better BAB? Doesn't have to use Psychic Warrior, either, anything that gives access to those sorts of powers is fine.

Non-SRD sources are acceptable, but sticking to SRD is preferred.
EDIT: Also, Psionics is preferred to other casting, and is really the whole point of the excercise. I've never much liked Vancian casting, so I'm trying to acquaint myself more with Psionics.

[balistafreak]

So, I like the concept of the Psychic Warrior, but I don't like as much the 3/4 BAB.

Is there a way to replicate the mystic warrior archetype using psychic races, focus feats, that sort of thing? Or dipping and using other classes to wind up with a better BAB? Doesn't have to use Psychic Warrior, either, anything that gives access to those sorts of powers is fine.

Non-SRD sources are acceptable, but sticking to SRD is preferred.
EDIT: Also, Psionics is preferred to other casting, and is really the whole point of the excercise. I've never much liked Vancian casting, so I'm trying to acquaint myself more with Psionics.

The Tashalatora Ardent is almost a strictly more powerful caster, although Mantle granted abilities don't exactly match up to the Psychic Warrior's bonus feats.

Admittedly you don't get better BAB, but with clever power selection and usage you can improve your combat capacities far more than the Psychic Warrior can... which is kind of reaching the same end through a different path, I guess.

The SRD Slayer prestige class is full BAB and 9/10 progression with a whole bunch of cool tricks on the side. You do have the skill/feat tax of 4 ranks of Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Track, and you'll have to wait until +4 BAB to get into it, but if that floats your boat...

Seriously, you don't need full BAB to be a good melee fighter. Even without Polymorph-into-a-hydra-lulz, careful selection of powers turns your gish into a far more powerful beast than a "mundane". (Possibly barring ToB, which is Not a Bad Thing.) Perhaps the most apparent example is the Lawful Incarnate, who makes a fine fighter despite only being half BAB.

[PId6]

PsyWar doesn't need full BAB. Powers can make up for it very easily, leading to some incredibly powerful builds. However, if you really want a better BAB, take some levels of Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm). PsyWar 10/Slayer 10 ends up with 17 BAB and some decent abilities, at a cost of feats and one ML. Ranger 1/PsyWar 9/Slayer 10 is another option, but that's another ML lost.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, what would one do as a PsyWar to make up for the lost BAB?

[Greenish]

So, what would one do as a PsyWar to make up for the lost BAB?Use the psionic powers?

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Well, yes.

But BAB is technically an infinite resource, when compared to PP, which run out. And you can't use all the PP you want in each encounter, whereas a fighter or ranger will always have a better BAB.

So what specifically would I want to be doing as a PsyWar that would make up for lacking a full BAB? A lot of the powers in the SRD seem scattered... I suppose it would depend on the concept of the character which ones I should select, so as to have a fairly focused set of powers?

[The Glyphstone]

Offensive Precognition is the main one. Insight bonuses to attacks are hard to find outside of psionics, though it won't give you extra iteratives. Alternatively, you can build the King of Smack for natural attacks galore.

[balistafreak]

I've never actually seen a Gish focusing only on self-buffs (the most efficient way to use spells/PP) run out of juice. Usually they run out of HP first. :smallamused:

If a combat isn't looking too tough, don't pop all of your buffs, just the most efficient ones/ones you need to get through the encounter.

Going Tashalatora Ardent (yeah, yeah, I know, here it is again) gives you +1 power known and Psion powers known and PP progression. This means that you will be Psionic Warrior without bonus feats but with much better casting.

Don't overrate the power of "always", which is constantly cited as why Monks and martial types are "awesome". Most of the time, if you're that strapped for resources, your plan has gone terribly wrong anyways.

[Greenish]

But BAB is technically an infinite resource, when compared to PP, which run out.And warlock invocations are an infinite resource, when compared to wizard's spell slots, which run out.

Bite of the Wolf gets you an extra attack at full BAB -5. Expansion gives reach and strength. Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge allow you to actually use full attacks. Strength of My Enemy gets you more strength. Form of Doom is four tentacle attacks in addition to your other attacks.

That's not going into defensive or utility powers, or stuff you can get with Expanded Knowledge. (Want to Metamorphosis yourself and your psicrystal into 12-headed cryohydras? Go ahead.)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, if I wanted to make a Xeph character using psionics to be an assassin, what would be the best way to go about it? Psywar straight? Psion + Swashbuckler into Slayer?

Maybe even go back to my old idea of a Psychic Rogue combined with Swashbuckler?

[PId6]

If you want to be a psychic assassin, try the psychic assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) class. It's only half manifesting, but you'll still probably end up with better powers than a psychic rogue if you go psion. Rogue 1/Psion 4/Psychic Assassin 10/Psion +5 should do. You're going to need Able Learner though, so Xeph isn't going to work.

Alternatively, just go Psychic Rogue 20. It's not bad, and should fit your concept well enough. There's absolutely no reason you'd want to dip swashbuckler; the loss in PP is not worth the minor advantages it provides.

[Greenish]

If you want to be a psychic assassin, try the psychic assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) class. It's only half manifesting, but you'll still probably end up with better powers than a psychic rogue if you go psion. Rogue 1/Psion 4/Psychic Assassin 10/Psion +5 should do. You're going to need Able Learner though, so Xeph isn't going to work.If you can adapt Unseen Seer as a psionic PrC, so much the better.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I'll probably go straight PsyRogue, since the character isn't evil, and won't be. He's more like Il Duce from Boondock Saints.

So, what powers in particular should I be on the lookout for? Offensive Precognition has already been mentioned, and as I'm rather limited in my selection, I want to be sure I'm getting the ones that will be most useful to me.

Also, should I be using my feats for Expanded Knowledge, or more PP, or enhancing my non-psionic combat styles?

[PId6]

If you can adapt Unseen Seer as a psionic PrC, so much the better.
That would indeed be the best solution. Divination -> Clairsentience is a pretty easy shift too.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

That would indeed be the best solution. Divination -> Clairsentience is a pretty easy shift too.

How would I best explain this substitution to my DM?

[Mando Knight]

However, if you really want a better BAB, take some levels of Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm). PsyWar 10/Slayer 10 ends up with 17 BAB and some decent abilities, at a cost of feats and one ML.

Half the abilities are of the "Hells no, Illithid scum!" variety, though...

[PId6]

How would I best explain this substitution to my DM?
Entry Requirements:

Skills: Spellcraft prereq becomes Psicraft instead.
Manifesting: Able to manifest 1st level powers, including at least two clairsentience powers.

Class Features:

Spellcasting advancement becomes manifesting advancement.
Advanced Learning: Gain Expanded Knowledge as a bonus feat, for which you must choose any clairsentience power to learn.
Silent Spell becomes any bonus metapsionic feat.
Divination Spell Power: Increase manifester level for clairsentience powers, and decrease manifester level for all other powers.

And that's it. Most of it is just changing "divination" to "clairsentience" and "spellcasting" to "manifesting."


Half the abilities are of the "Hells no, Illithid scum!" variety, though...
SRD Slayer lets you choose the type of psionic creature to fight against. And you're taking the class mostly just for the full BAB anyway. A few abilities do apply beyond just against illithids though; Lucid Buffer, Cerebral Blind, and Cerebral Immunity are all pretty useful.

[Lycanthromancer]

If you're wanting 'assassin with psionics,' don't use psychic warrior.

However, as mentioned, if you want an incredibly powerful, versatile combatant, psychic warrior is actually extremely good, even moreso than the ToB classes, if only somewhat. They could use a few more power points in their repertoire, but they certainly don't need any more BAB.

The conversation is moving away from this direction, but I can help with learning to understand those statements if you like, as could many others on this board.

[balistafreak]

Half the abilities are of the "Hells no, Illithid scum!" variety, though...

They aren't actively detracting from you, though. And as said before you're in it mainly for the full BAB.

(I still think BAB is overrated, but whatever.)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

If you're wanting 'assassin with psionics,' don't use psychic warrior.

However, as mentioned, if you want an incredibly powerful, versatile combatant, psychic warrior is actually extremely good, even moreso than the ToB classes, if only somewhat. They could use a few more power points in their repertoire, but they certainly don't need any more BAB.

The conversation is moving away from this direction, but I can help with learning to understand those statements if you like, as could many others on this board.

For the aforementioned character, I think I'm just going to go Psychic Rogue, and the Unseen Seer option has been explained well enough.

So, for me, I'm used to playing martial characters, and playing NWN, and in both cases, the better your chance of hitting the enemy, the better. In an epic Persistent World I play in, I don't build characters that don't have at least 16 BAB pre-epic, and I prefer it to be higher if it will fit in the build.

Most of my group has most of their experience with martial classes as well, seeing as how nobody really wanted to do the paperwork to play any sort of caster. So for most of us, BAB is king. Damage is right up there as well, but being able to roll and consistently get the hit is usually everyone's goal.

I once played a PsyWar as a wisdom-based archer and outshone everyone else in the party, who were all using all sorts of templates and attempts at cheese, so I can see how the psionic focus feats at least are beneficial. It's the 'using powers instead of hitting the enemy until it stops moving' paradigm that I'm struggling with now.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I'll echo the sentiment that the Psychic Warrior's biggest problem isn't its BAB, but its low amount of power points. They really feel the burn at almost all levels, almost requiring more thought towards power point spending than a psion or wilder.

[Lycanthromancer]

I once played a PsyWar as a wisdom-based archer and outshone everyone else in the party, who were all using all sorts of templates and attempts at cheese, so I can see how the psionic focus feats at least are beneficial. It's the 'using powers instead of hitting the enemy until it stops moving' paradigm that I'm struggling with now.You're not 'using powers instead of hitting the enemy,' since hitting the enemy is what psychic warriors do extremely well. You just have to be able to work using powers into your attack routines effectively (and it's not horrifically difficult to do).

Heck, I can get more attacks with a higher attack bonus than any fighter could on his own, that hit just as hard as the fighter can, AND pull other stuff out of his repertoire that the fighter never could.

After all, the ability to gain a Strength score in the 40s without much to-do (and no LA whatsoever), 10 or more attacks per round (on a pouncing charge or full attack), and 100 or more damage per attack rather easily makes up for losing 5 points of Base Attack Bonus, I think.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

You're not 'using powers instead of hitting the enemy,' since hitting the enemy is what psychic warriors do extremely well. You just have to be able to work using powers into your attack routines effectively (and it's not horrifically difficult to do).

Heck, I can get more attacks with a higher attack bonus than any fighter could on his own, that hit just as hard as the fighter can, AND pull other stuff out of his repertoire that the fighter never could.

After all, the ability to gain a Strength score in the 40s without much to-do (and no LA whatsoever), 10 or more attacks per round (on a pouncing charge or full attack), and 100 or more damage per attack rather easily makes up for losing 5 points of Base Attack Bonus, I think.

So, a PsyWar should be buffing, mostly?

(Also, which makes a better combatant in E6, since there's only a 1-point BAB difference; Psion or Psychic Warrior?)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ Warmind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5, you get Fighter BAB, Psychic Warrior powers with decent powerpoints/day, manifester level of 19 for durations and augmenting with Practiced Manifester, and all the nifty class features of Warmind and Sanctified Mind along with a few maneuvers and stances. Swap out Crusader for Fighter or maybe even Paladin 2/ Fighter 2 if you can't use ToB. You could even use something like Knight or Ranger if you want, though in any case you'd need to either use a psionic race or get Wild Talent, Hidden Talent, or Warped Mind to qualify.

Edit:

(Also, which makes a better combatant in E6, since there's only a 1-point BAB difference; Psion or Psychic Warrior?)

Definitely a Changeling Psion with the Egoist 1 and 5 substitution levels from Races of Eberron. He'd gain Metamorphosis as a power known at level 5, which with the manifester level boost for self-targeted buffs from level 1 he'd be able to use it at level 6, sooner with Overchannel. Otherwise, at manifester level 7 from the sub level he can turn into a 7-headed Hydra, a Wyvern, or an Annis Hag. With Overchannel and a manifester level of 8 you'd get Dire Lion, 8-Headed Hydra, and Umber Hulk. With an E6 capstone feat to get +1 manifester level he could Metamorphosis into a Behir and be the strongest combatant in the party.

[Zovc]

Maybe the War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) is of interest to you? You'll end up with manifesting similar to a level 14 Psywar (In terms of Max Power Level and Power Points), but you'll only have six Powers Known. It feels a lot like a Suel Arcanamarch to me, but Psionic.

Of course, the War Mind doesn't get bonus feats, and his manifesting, by RAW, caps at 10th ML from class levels. Then again, the manifesting is more an issue of prestige classes in general rather than War Minds.

[Snake-Aes]

So, a PsyWar should be buffing, mostly?

The premise of the psychic warrior is that his powers complement his fighting. And they are excellent at that. A few long term buffs for the day, a few short term buffs for tough fights. The brunt of the in-combat power point expenses will come in the form of swift spells(Lion's charge, hustle), debuffs(Strength of my enemy) and the short term buffs(expansion, bite, form of doom, inconstant location, perfect riposte).

Pick a fighter. See that tasty +5 bab? ok, now pick the psychic warrior. Make him expend 1 power point to give him a bite attack. Now he has two attacks at bab-2, one at -7 and one at -12. Better than one at 0, one at -5, one at -10 and one at -15.

So there. A single power point gives psychic warriors the same attack progression of a fighter.

[Runestar]

So, a PsyWar should be buffing, mostly?

Isn't that the idea of a psy-warrior? 1-2 buffs prior to combat, then charge in.

Plus, they have some powers which are fairly cheap and don't need augmentation, such as lion's charge.

Plus, how many fighters can boast of having their own mindblank? :smallbiggrin:

[Snake-Aes]

Isn't that the idea of a psy-warrior? 1-2 buffs prior to combat, then charge in.

Plus, they have some powers which are fairly cheap and don't need augmentation, such as lion's charge.

Plus, how many fighters can boast of having their own mindblank? :smallbiggrin:

Or expansion.
or temporary hit points.
or teleport.
or combat tentacles.

[Greenish]

Pick a fighter. See that tasty +5 bab? ok, now pick the psychic warrior. Make him expend 1 power point to give him a bite attack. Now he has two attacks at bab-2, one at -7 and one at -12. Better than one at 0, one at -5, one at -10 and one at -15.If you mean Bite of the Wolf, psywarr would have one attack at full BAB, two at -5 (the other being the bite, which only adds 1/2 str) and one at -10.

[Snake-Aes]

right, that puts him at a slightly lower attack setup then. Come precognition!

There's also the tankish side with vigor and share pain. I think my favorite stunt is disarming and animating the weapon just to spite the foe.

[Lycanthromancer]

If you don't want to spend any rounds buffing up, the Linked Power feat (from CPsi) was practically made for this setup. Choose one or two swift or immediate action powers, such as psionic lion's charge or grip of iron, and Link them to the buff power of choice, such as expansion. Take Psionic Meditation or Psicrystal Affinity/Psicrystal Containment (or all three), and you can use a spare move action here and there to recharge your focus, or one of various tricks to recharge as a swift action or as part of another action, like expending a ToB maneuver. Now you can buff using your swift actions without unduly affecting your ability to thwack things.

Otherwise, grab a high Dexterity and Combat Reflexes, then focus on using reach and attacks of opportunity to hit things while you use your actions to buff. Especially good with expansion and Improved Trip.

Or you could rely on long-term buffs and buffing up between battles, which works well enough.

For power points, make sure you always have a good Wisdom score (your other stats can afford to be lower since a good psychic warrior is able to augment or bypass them completely) and make good use of items such as power stones, dorjes, third eyes, and psychoactive skins. You can also stock up on universal items and wondrous items like pearls of power, cognizance crystals (which are nowhere near as great), a torc of power preservation, and manifester arrows. These, combined with various feats as you like them, can extend your power point reserves greatly, and this isn't including a lot of options you have access to.

But yes, your main strengths lie in your ability to buff yourself. Your powers segue well (extra attacks + bonus damage on attacks + stat bonuses due to powers + size bonuses + reach + natural attacks that don't rely on iteratives = very much win), and they grant huge flexibility even for plain stock powers.

Expansion, for instance, is incredibly cheap at 1 power point, and grants a wide variety of benefits for the cost. It grants extra reach, extra Strength, extra damage on all physical attacks, and size bonuses to most of the combat maneuvers you'll want to use, such as tripping, disarming, grappling, and bull-rushing. It's like having Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Bull-Rush, Aberrant Reach, Improved Natural Attack, and Monkey Grip all in one package, which is especially nice considering the fact that they all stack with it. This gets even better once you can spend 7 power points augmenting it, since you can grow two size categories, though it's a lot more expensive that way.

[Ryuuk]

Hmm, I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but if you want to make up for lost bab without expending pp, look at Deep Impact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deepImpact) to turn 1 attack every round into a touch attack.

[The Glyphstone]

Hmm, I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but if you want to make up for lost bab without expending pp, look at Deep Impact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deepImpact) to turn 1 attack every round into a touch attack.

That costs you actions instead, which is almost worse. You need Psychic Meditation to make it even worth considering, and even then you're limited to making 1 attack/round, giving up the PsyWarrior's best advantage of multiple attacks.

[2xMachina]

Hustle works well/

And if you're an Ardent... Dominant Freedom. Hustle Linked Hustle with Psicrystal containment, you can get and expand 2 Focuses in 1 round.

Pre-Focus
Hustle Focus
Psicrystal Focus

Next round,
Linked Hustle Focus
Hustle Focus

And you full attack with it.

[Lycanthromancer]

Hustle works well/

And if you're an Ardent... Dominant Freedom. Hustle Linked Hustle with Psicrystal containment, you can get and expand 2 Focuses in 1 round.

Pre-Focus
Hustle Focus
Psicrystal Focus

Next round,
Linked Hustle Focus
Hustle Focus

And you full attack with it.My biggest issue with hustle is that it's fairly expensive to use as a regular tactic, even at higher levels. A one-time expenditure of 3 pp isn't a huge deal, but it gets expensive rather quickly if used every round. I'm of the mind that you use minimal force with leverage for maximum gains, so while this is an option it'd be one I'd use sparingly.

[Powerfamiliar]

Lords of Madness has Sanctified Mind. I'm not too keen on the details, but on of my players had it a few campaign ago, and it seemed to work quite well even if that character was unoptimized as hell. (Fighter/psion instead of psychic warrior)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Would it be possible to use a PsyWar to make something like a Cleric Archer using Zen Archery? The natural weapon powers wouldn't be as useful, but Expansion is still good, and Psionic Shot isn't a bad thing either...

[Optimystik]

Psychic Warriors are fine, easily on par with anything from Tome of Battle.

It's like the Swordsage - sure it has 3/4 BAB, but giving it more just isn't needed.

[Greenish]

Would it be possible to use a PsyWar to make something like a Cleric Archer using Zen Archery? The natural weapon powers wouldn't be as useful, but Expansion is still good, and Psionic Shot isn't a bad thing either...Yeah, psywarr's can make rather good archers.

[Lycanthromancer]

Would it be possible to use a PsyWar to make something like a Cleric Archer using Zen Archery? The natural weapon powers wouldn't be as useful, but Expansion is still good, and Psionic Shot isn't a bad thing either...They're not as good with archery as they are with melee, but they're more than serviceable.

Get a dragonbone longbow for auto-scaling Str bonuses (great for psywars since they have variable ways to increase Strength regularly), or a bow of the wintermoon (more expensive). Grab Zen Archery, then start thinking about how to use your powers for best effect when shooting. Expansion for a bit of extra damage, strength of my enemy to Rapid Shot foes into weakness, metamorphosis (via Expanded Knowledge, research, the mantled psywar ACF, or psychic chirurgery) to get high Str, Dex, and movement speeds, hustle to get into position for full-attacks, weapon of energy and metaphysical weapon to add to your damage, and so on. If you can swing it, nab the soulbound weapon variant to use call weaponry to pull in a nice strong bow (see if you can make it dragonbone in some way). Use your feats for archery, mobility, psionic feats, and to shore up your melee prowess. Aurorum power-storing arrows (of returning) to dump your pp reserve into at the end of the day for some bonus damage later on (just make sure you have some powers that fit the bill).

Also, psionic minor creation to grab various poisons that last 1 hr/lvl and who cares if the DC is low if your opponents need 6 saves per round, all day long?

Yes, you can do quite well with this, but it's more difficult than with melee. I could assist with a quick build, if you like.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I'll probably be using anything you show me in E6, so if you just want to throw the first six levels together, that's fine.

I'm unfamiliar with Soulbound Weaponry; how does that work, exactly?

[PId6]

I'm unfamiliar with Soulbound Weaponry; how does that work, exactly?
It's a PsyWar alternate class feature, found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

[aivanther]

Well, yes.

But BAB is technically an infinite resource, when compared to PP, which run out. And you can't use all the PP you want in each encounter, whereas a fighter or ranger will always have a better BAB.


Well, I didn't see this addressed, so if this is redundant by some earlier, I'm sorry.

An infinite resource is only theoretically useful. Since you won't be adventuring 24/7, but will actually rest, the resource only matters within the span of a day's adventure.

That said, let's do a similar comparison to something else, spells.

Let's take two options: Character 1 is standard wizard. Character 2 is a wizard, but is given "Stupid Prestige Class" (SPC). SPC is a 5 level PrC that gives no caster levels, but does allow you to cast 1st and 2nd level spells an infinite amount of time.

Let's evaluate them: At level 10 C1 has level 5 spells, C2 has level 3 spells. C1 might use all his spells that day, but he's probably not burning his list up in one encounter.

At level 20 C1 has level 9 spells, and a large spell/day pool that he'll probably never completely exhaust each day. C2 has 8th level spells (only a couple at that), he never runs out of spells, but it's nothing earth shattering and he's not really "ahead" of C1 as C1 never actually runs out either.

tl;dr- having infinite of something doesn't make it more useful than a limited supply of something else, especially if the limited supply is very valuable (i.e. powers usually trump BAB).

[Maeglin_Dubh]

It's a PsyWar alternate class feature, found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).


Does the weapon you choose have to be one you're proficient in? It grants a free Weapon Focus, which requires proficiency, but doesn't explicitly say whether or not it grants proficiency.

[PId6]

Does the weapon you choose have to be one you're proficient in? It grants a free Weapon Focus, which requires proficiency, but doesn't explicitly say whether or not it grants proficiency.
My understanding is that you can choose any weapon, even ones you're not proficient in. You won't gain proficiency with it, but you can choose it if, say, you later expect to acquire proficiency with it.

[Lycanthromancer]

Does the weapon you choose have to be one you're proficient in? It grants a free Weapon Focus, which requires proficiency, but doesn't explicitly say whether or not it grants proficiency.Proficiency isn't a prerequisite, and I do believe this is one of the few times that you can get Weapon Focus without actually being proficient.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, if I take Proficiency at 1st level, I get Focus at second with the summoning, (referring here to a Greatbow) and I should also be taking Point Blank Shot at first, then get Zen Archery at 3rd, Psionic Shot at 4th, and at 6th take the feat that allows focusing as a swift action?

[2xMachina]

Focus can be done with Move action, not swift, with Psionic Meditation.

[Runestar]

An infinite resource is only theoretically useful. Since you won't be adventuring 24/7, but will actually rest, the resource only matters within the span of a day's adventure.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even fighters have a finite resource - their hp.

Even wizards can have infinite resources these days thanks to reserve feats. Sure, a lv17 wizard with meteor swarm memorised can throw around 9d6 fiery bursts all day long, but ask yourself - what monster is going to stand around and let you slow plink it to death? 9d6 isn't a lot, and this is before factoring in reflex saves and elemental resistance.

Meanwhile, the monster in question is attacking the rest of the party and damaging them, which requires resources to undo after the fight (in terms of slots for heal/resurrection etc). So you want to be able to take down said monster as quickly as possible, which may require you to use your big guns right from the start.

This is one reason warlocks lose to wizards, even with theoretically unlimited firepower. You just don't have all the time in the world to use it at your leisure. Heck, I doubt it can even outpace a tarrasque's regeneration. :smalltongue:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Focus can be done with Move action, not swift, with Psionic Meditation.

So, at the start of the build, I'll probably be using Expansion and whatever melee weapons are available to me, until I can focus as a move, at which point I become a sort of turret, just sitting in one place and making psionic shots every turn, unless I need to Hustle and shift somewhere else.

[Optimystik]

So, at the start of the build, I'll probably be using Expansion and whatever melee weapons are available to me, until I can focus as a move, at which point I become a sort of turret, just sitting in one place and making psionic shots every turn, unless I need to Hustle and shift somewhere else.

Use Inconstant Location (CPsi). Now you can hop around the battlefield as a swift action while you use your move to charge psionic shot and your standard to fire.

[okpokalypse]

Psy Warr 4 / Ardent 16 is pretty diesel...

Take your 1st level of Ardent at 3rd and get Practiced Maifester on it, now going forward you can learn Ardent Powers as if you were an Ardent of your HD Level. You also get a MUCH bigger PSP pool to work with and lose no BAB. AND you get Mantle Abilities - which if you take the right ones - are pretty sweet additions.

Just the Time Mantle alone is worth it all with Temporal Accelleration by L11. Make usre you get Linked Power as a Meta-Psionic Feat and by L14 you're Leading off with a Temporal Accelleration (1 Round) and inside you're doing a Metamorphosis (7 PSP) + Expansion to Huge (7 PSP) Linked. You come out of that swift action with a Full Attack and your two most important buffs down - though the Expansion won't kick in until next turn...

When you're high enough level you can have 2-3 rounds of Temporal Accelleration to do all your buffs before you take you 1st Full Attack. And a few power's that are great for you are:

Damp Power (L2). In a Transparent World, it's unreal. Keep that Immediate Action free after you've buffed to potentially use this every round.

Hustle (L2) + Dim Door (L4). Hustle Creates an Extra Move Action. Dim Door can be Augmented to be used as a Move Action. Viola! Swift Dim Door. It's costly in terms of PSP - but you've gotta love making the entire battlefield accessable as a swift action. You're the best Caster-Killer in the game with this.

Anticipatory Strike (L5). You wanna act now? Then act now. Personally, I like using this when I've got surprise on someone. I Buff up within TA, come out and do a standard move Dim Door to take a single shot at the enemy caster, then AS my next round and take a Full-Attack to follow. If I didn't drop him, I Hustle / Dim my way back out and chill until I act again, but it's rare that a Gargantuan (Expansion) War Troll (Metamorph) with a 50+ strength won't 1. Finish Him or 2. Daze Him.

[Optimystik]

Why 4 levels of Psywar? Ardents can function well losing that many ML, but there is still a hefty cost.

Psywar 4/Ardent 16 = 5 + 221 = 226 PP before Wis.
Psywar 2/Ardent 18 = 1 + 280 = 281 PP before Wis. (55 more.)

Just because you can lose 4 ML, doesn't mean you necessarily should.

[okpokalypse]

I like getting the 2nd level Psy Warr Power that Ardent's might not have access to based on the Mantle's taken. I've never found then need for (with Wis bonus) 300+ PSP on a Psy Warr type...

[Optimystik]

More PP are always useful. You never know when that handy buff gets dispelled or interrupted, your PP get drained, you take Wis damage etc. Or an enemy could just prove tougher than usual, or you have an encounter right at bedtime.

Between Mantle Substitution (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) and Expanded Knowledge, there is no power a Psywar can get that an Ardent can't get.

[okpokalypse]

More PP are always useful. You never know when that handy buff gets dispelled or interrupted, your PP get drained, you take Wis damage etc. Or an enemy could just prove tougher than usual, or you have an encounter right at bedtime.

Between Mantle Substitution (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) and Expanded Knowledge, there is no power a Psywar can get that an Ardent can't get.

I've done the build a few ways, and I always come back to 4 PW / 16 Ardent. It just works best for what I like to do. Again, the PSP aren't that big a deal after a certain amount for me, and I need the feats I have down the road for things other than Expanding Knowledge for a 2nd level power that doesn't augment :smallsmile:

[2xMachina]

Mantle Substitute gets you nearly any power you want.

For my Ardent, I used Soulknife/Soulbow, which is kind of dead lvls in terms of powers known compared to your case, and I got the powers I needed.

Force(AC buff)/Freedom(Hustle, movement etc)
Time/Fate later

Only needed to EK Metamorphosis.

Oh, and for power points... Try Kalashtar. Pay 3k for Power Linked shards. 2PP 3/day each. Can have 1/ML, -1Hp each.

Lvl 20 has 20 shards for 40PP 3/day, so 120PP for augmentation. (Bit hard to get your DM not to ban it tho, since it's strong).