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View Full Version : (3.X) Repost from a year ago for PEACH (Spella)



DracoDei
2010-07-17, 11:54 PM
Control Magic I
Transmutation
Level: Brd 4, Cleric 4, Magic 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M, F, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One spellcaster, creature, or object
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
As per Dispel Magic except that you gain control of the spell(s), instead of simply dispersing or preventing them, and the Area Dispel function may not be used. If used as a counterspell, you must successfully identify the specific spell being cast in order to use this spell. You may then do anything with that spell you could do if you were the caster (including targeting a spell that you successfully controlled as it was being cast, or dismissing it). The DC of the opposed check increases as follows:

Arcane casting used to try to control a Divine spell or vice-versa +1?
Spell not on your list of spells known +1
Spell has an alignment descriptor directly opposing your own alignment +2/each
Spell has an alignment descriptor that you do not share +1/each (Does NOT stack with the above)

If the spell has a certain range within which it can be controlled or targetted, calculate use the range of Control Magic as calculated from your position (not the position of the original caster).


Control Magic II
Transmutation
Level: Cleric 5, Magic 5, Sor/Wiz 5
This spell functions like control magic I, except that the maximum caster level on your control check is +13 instead of +10.


Control Magic Bardic
Transmutation
Level: Brd 5
This spell functions like control magic I, except that the maximum caster level on your control check is +15 instead of +10.


Control Magic III
Transmutation
Level: Cleric 6, Magic 6, Sor/Wiz 6
This spell functions like control magic I, except that the maximum caster level on your control check is +16 instead of +10.


Control Magic IV
Transmutation
Level: Brd 6, Cleric 7, Magic 7, Sor/Wiz 7
This spell functions like control magic, except that the maximum caster level on your control check is +20 instead of +10.

Additionally, greater control magic has a chance to control any effect that remove curse can remove, even if dispel magic canít dispel that effect.





Are the spell levels good?

Is this too good of a substitute for specialist wizards who ban abjuration? (Much like someone who bans Evocation might pick up Shadow Evocation.)

Am I right not to give this to Druids? It just doesn't feel very Druid-y for some reason...

Should clerics even get this appart from as a Domain spell?

What non-core classes should get this and at what level?

What about a 10th or 11th level version of this that is to Control Magic what Mage's Disjunction is to Dispel Magic?


EDIT: I got a suggestion that divine casters shouldn't be able to control spells that are opposed to their alignment on one or both axes. What say you?

Notes for future changes:
[20:05] ElbarSemiAway: So there is a gap from 11 to 13 for wizards, and 11 to 14 for sorcerers...
[20:06] ElbarSemiAway: I should maybe put something that goes up to +15 in there to cover that gap between when you max out the first version and when you can take the "Greater"[/S]((Done, in fact, ended up adding THREE new versions))
[20:06] ailurus: I would suggest the following changes - in the event of a tie, the target spell just fizzles (as per dispel magic) rather than being controlled. but, also, maybe tack on a default +1 modifier on the target spell's caster level

Milskidasith
2010-07-17, 11:59 PM
Question: Does it just let you dismiss spells, or do you gain the buffs?

If it just lets you dismiss them, it's pretty much strictly weaker than Dispel Magic, and should be stated as such; unless the buff is dismissable, controlling it does nothing. It only really has any effect on summons.

Making it into so many different spells is kind of pointless.

If you gain all the buffs you dispel as if they are cast on you, then I should point you to Reaving Dispel, which is ninth level for a very good reason.

DracoDei
2010-07-18, 12:30 AM
You gain control of summons and ongoing effects such as Unseen Servant or Grasping Hand. Doesn't transfer existing buffs(does let you dismiss them if they are listed as dismissable), but you could steal ones in the process of being cast. In fact, this is something that is actually worth readying an action to cast... whatever the enemy throws at you, you get a roll to not only stop, but to throw out at a target or targets of your choosing as part of the same action. It is theoretically possible to use,...oh say Control Magic III to rebound a Meteor Swam cast by a 20th level caster on them.

The large number of them is because when I bumped the first and last ones up to appropriate levels from the Dispels you ended up with several levels where you hit the cap on CL before you got access to the next level, not wanting to over-power them I didn't want to just increase the caps.

Milskidasith
2010-07-18, 12:32 AM
You gain control of summons and ongoing effects such as Unseen Servant or Grasping Hand. Doesn't transfer existing buffs, but you could steal ones in the process of being cast. In fact, this is something that is actually worth readying an action to cast... whatever the enemy throws at you, you get a roll to not only stop, but to throw out at a target or targets of your choosing as part of the same action.

The large number of them is because when I bumped the first and last ones up to appropriate levels from the Dispels you ended up with several levels where you hit the cap on CL before you got access to the next level, not wanting to over-power them I didn't want to just increase the caps.

Yeah, I don't really see much of a point to making these higher level than dispel magic. As a readied action, it's neat, but when it can't do most of the functions of dispel magic (removing buffs), it just doesn't scream "Higher spell level" to me.

DracoDei
2010-07-18, 12:38 AM
And the whole "No, I cast Meteor Swarm on YOU!" thing I edited n the clarification to my previous post?

You may have a point... I was going with the basic logic of "stealing something for yourself is twice as good as simply destroying it".

Going to at least wait for other people to weigh in before I change it.

P.S. Casting it on a pre-existing Prismatic Sphere or Prismatic Wall is also pretty boss...

Milskidasith
2010-07-18, 01:32 AM
And the whole "No, I cast Meteor Swarm on YOU!" thing I edited n the clarification to my previous post?

You may have a point... I was going with the basic logic of "stealing something for yourself is twice as good as simply destroying it".

This assumes that the enemy is casting spells optimal for use against himself. If you ready an action to cast this spell, and steal the enemies spell, you still only hit him with one spell, but it isn't optimized towards what he would be hurt by; meteor swarming a guy who is fire immune is hardly worth the action. Appropriate spell + wings of cover to avoid the enemies spell is generally going to be a better option with roughly the same payout; one spell hitting the enemy, none hitting you.

EDIT: Also, Ring of Spell Battle. It's as fun as yours, except with no opposed roll and as an immediate action. Again, action economy is king, and readying an action to control a spell that may not be useful for you is not an optijmal use of your standard action.


P.S. Casting it on a pre-existing Prismatic Sphere or Prismatic Wall is also pretty boss...

Prismatic wall and sphere are immune to dispel magic and GDM, meaning they are immune to your spell.

EDIT: Basically, in short, the spell isn't bad; it's neat for sure. It's just not more overall useful than Dispel Magic, besides a few niche uses or perhaps when you outnumber the enemy so you can afford to fizzle all his casting, but dispel magic can do that as well. Losing the ability to actually dispel things is a huge hit because it means your spell does not have an effect against the majority of spells with a duration.

Morph Bark
2010-07-18, 04:33 AM
Instead of a readied action being necessary, it would seem an immediate action could function so as well, though that would make the spell more powerful in that regard.

DracoDei
2010-07-18, 11:02 AM
Milskidasith: I don't know enough about the mechanics of Rings of Spell battle to fully get that, but OK. Also, I wonder if I/we could find a simple enough way to modify it so it WOULD work on pre-existing Prismatic effects without being broken (and I can't believe I forgot that Prismatic effects require special measures to remove).

M-Bark: Free Quicken but with the limitations that Milskidasith pointed out, that might only put it up two levels... Actually, that makes me wonder if such an improved version of this would be worth a very narrow metamagic feat(to upgrade these spells probably at +0 to +2 spell level) or a 3 level PrC(first you get extra slots to cast these, then all your Dispels count as these, then the "His rainbow refuge has now become his prison, and he is going to find out the HARD way." and such things).

Milskidasith
2010-07-18, 12:21 PM
Milskidasith: I don't know enough about the mechanics of Rings of Spell battle to fully get that, but OK. Also, I wonder if I/we could find a simple enough way to modify it so it WOULD work on pre-existing Prismatic effects without being broken (and I can't believe I forgot that Prismatic effects require special measures to remove).

I don't think modifying a spell to work on something that is specifically meant to have it not work is a good idea, but it's not a huge benefit considering anybody casting Prismatic Sphere can probably teleport, unless they also dimension locked the area.


M-Bark: Free Quicken but with the limitations that Milskidasith pointed out, that might only put it up two levels... Actually, that makes me wonder if such an improved version of this would be worth a very narrow metamagic feat(to upgrade these spells probably at +0 to +2 spell level) or a 3 level PrC(first you get extra slots to cast these, then all your Dispels count as these, then the "His rainbow refudge has now become his prison, and he is going to find out the HARD way." and such things).

Err... Immediate actions are better than quicken in every way. They use your swift action, but they can be cast on your turn *or* the other enemies turn. Immediate action metamagic could easily be a +5 or +6, and even that might still have it be too powerful (immediate action silence for 100% spellcasting interrupts, even against the pesky spells Wings of Cover doesn't... cover.)